Hello you beauties. Access all episodes 10 hours earlier than RUclips by Subscribing on Spotify - spoti.fi/2LSimPn or Apple Podcasts - apple.co/2MNqIgw. Here’s the timestamps: 00:00 Christine’s Controversial Article 02:31 What is Happening to Men Today? 09:54 The Term ‘Toxic Masculinity’ 16:39 The Failings of Modern Feminism 22:20 Why the Right Adopted Men’s Issues 25:20 Why Male Issues are Represented by Women in Mainstream Media 30:54 Are Conservative Men Are More Attractive? 37:16 Why the Left Are Ignoring Men 46:17 Recognising Female Success & De-gendering Male Success 52:32 Is the Masculinity Crisis Impacted by Absent Fathers? 1:00:43 The Need for Single-Sex Spaces for Male Bonding 1:09:05 Who is Trying to Provide a Solution for Men? 1:20:56 Has the Left Criticised Christine? 1:26:03 Where to Find Christine
"The left is not offering a role model for men" No, they've actively demonised masculinity. You can't simultaneously talk about masculinity in similar terms to 'original sin' while creating your own masculine role model. You just look like a fool. Also, 'girls bounce back better than boys' - but are girls short of female role models? Yes, the men's sheds movement is an Australian invention, I think there's been a bit of pushback from feminists and there's some variation in acceptance of some women in them, some sheds yes, some sheds no. But I don't know what's been happening recently.
Chris talked recently with another guest who made a very striking observation about how the women's movement demanded men speak more about their feelings and what was troubling them, but then doesn't ever want to actually listen to the answers unless those answers are the ones they want to hear. That Christine highlights a number of comments on her article to the effect that "Yes, we know there's a men's crisis, why are we still talking about it?" just goes to show how accurate the above statement is. The women's movement wants to hear men agreeing that toxic masculinity and the patriarchy are getting in womens' way. They do not at all want to hear that browbeating individual men will never get them onside, or that men as a class are experiencing a cultural identity crisis that the last decade or so of the women's movement is in no small way responsible for.
@@XXXX-yc6wv she also can’t understand men’s problems because she’s a feminist and feminist are a huge part of why men are oppressed and she can’t be a feminist and realize some of the things that need to be fixed because they go against each other because feminism actively tries to oppress men. It’s like being a Nazi Germany and asking society what is wrong with the Jews and why are they struggling? They are actively oppressing men and then trying to figure out why the men are struggling
to take xx.s('s concerns plus verbal excretions) seriously does imply to dismiss those (and xx.s, ultimately) at all. ENOUGH. respect (y)ourselves, gents.
When Christine says, 'Great (you older guys), now go and teach younger men how to be good men', I'm thinking, 'I did that by bringing up my sons to be good men and also showing my daughter what good men looked like. This is one reason why two parent families have value IMO.
I'm sixty- three, ex cop, current ju jitsu instructor, hill walker, cyclist, ex boxing coach, ex mountain bike guide. Currently working as a lifeguard and swimming teacher. A friend did the lifeguard course with me and would be an equally great role model for kids. But in 1998 when he was in Spain, a woman in the UK accused him of rape. Once it was proven that he was not even in the country at the time, he was released without charge. It still shows up on his enhanced criminal disbarment check. And he cannot get a job with any kind of vulnerable group. Such is justice in the UK.
I can't and will not be instructed, if not lectured, by a young lady with little life experience. I listened to the whole episode and have read her piece, I've heard and read similar before. I hope she does well and has a son.
I know, does she realize one of the problems men face in society is decades of feminists socially conditioning society to view men as predators and men can’t mentor or be good role models without being viewed as predators sealing victims?! I’ve had the police called on me for spending time with my own kids in public unchaperoned by women (my wife)?!?! It’s great to claim men need to be good role models and mentors, but ignore why they can’t because you lack the self awareness to realize you’re part of the problem! It comes of as her wanting whatever she wants from men, without actually acknowledging the problems men face or the part she plays in creating those problems!
what's interesting is that they found if there can't be a two parent household, specifically a father and mother, the next best thing is a single father. Those raised in homes by single mothers are at the greatest disadvantage. Perhaps if women weren't incentivized to break up families, maybe the children would have a fairer shot in life.
Men, in general, don’t complain, making their struggles invisible to most. As a wife and the mother of a sweet little boy, I thank you for bringing this topic forward.
i dont wanna make this a back and forth gender thing but fyi men don't complain because when we do we're punished. not just by women but also not just by men either. And personally I'm not sure men not complaining needs to change. if anything everyone should keep complaining to a minimum.
Absolutely. But, to point that out is to admit that there is a LOT of complaining goings on and some of us have difficulty admitting any faults or taking accountability.
We do talk about our problems, just not to women because it is filed away as ammunition for future use, that and we are dismissed and listed too because we are “entitled” as men, therefore can’t possibly have problems, while at the same time dismissed as being misogynists and incel for daring to false claim we have problems to distract From important issues women face.
Men don't complain, b/c it makes no sense for a man to complain. Women complain to get sympathy. Women hate when men are trying to come up with the solutions. Women don't need solutions when they complain. As anybody else they know what to do - eat healthy & exercise & have a healthy schedule & sleep... It a well known fact in Therapy. Women don't need solutions, they want sympathy. *Women love to complain to other women. Women tell eachother what they want to hear & lie to eachother... When a man complains, we consider it a huge red flag. He knows what to do like everybody else. If he is not doing it, he is incapable man & can't have a family. A man can't start complaining at war or work ... Men can't complain even to their women & friends & children. It doesn't solve the problems & only make people to think that you are an idiot. * And it's not my view. Everyone knows it. The majority of people believe that Feminists hate men.
Young men don't want sympathy...they want respect, purpose and the feeling of being needed/helpful and wanted you give a man that he'll give you all that he has and all that he is...just my take ✌️🖖🏴
Respect is earned, and purpose is something you need to find from within yourself. Being needed and wanted has to do with what you have to offer as a human being. So, it's all in your own hands, gentlemen. I wish men could realize how much power they actually have, and use it in a positive and productive manner. For some reason they feel women have to give that to them? Just my take.
@@joanofarcxxi of course you need to earn those things totally agree however I think there's a lack of encouragement in society with both men and women but seems like the guys ain't doin so good right now and that's not good for anyone...a bit more encouragement could go a long way
@@joanofarcxxithe problem is that boys aren't allowed to grow into quality men. The current culture puts down boys and promotes girls as.the special ones. It takes a long period of unlearning all that BS for a boy to truly become a man in adulthood.
@joanofarcxxi yes you're correct about respect. Yet, purpose is extremely lacking in society. Men and women aren't encouraged to be a yin and yang helping one another dynamic. It's all consumerism, work work work, and no emphasis on family the core of a healthy and functioning society. That's what gets lost in all these discussions. We're social creatures and our society no longer encourages what gives us ultimate purpose. Men and women need each other, both are best together not one above or below the other
Men don't get respect often even when they do earn it. The amount of shit men get for just being men, eg. All the "men are violent", " men are abusive", and "all men are shit" or other of verbal or nonverbal varieties of that attitude are widespread.
In the past, good women used to be our muse and inspiration. The reason why we want to conquer the world. Nowadays, I put in the bare minimum to get what I want. It works fine and I don't suffer delusions.
@@bazmilo-furball1they are the worst individuals in human history. Your most hardcore Nazi or Taliban is a much higher quality individual than your average feminist today. Over 4 billion babies dismembered, murdered in their own mothers wombs in the last 47 years alone. What type of individual does this. And what type of individuals call this evil a good thing? Chew on that for a while,and that's women today. Sadly this is democrat country, Obama's America,the Clintons America,the Biden crime families America, AOCs America, atheist Marxist democratic socialist America. The democrat party did this to what used to be christian America in the 1960's. In the 1960's the democrat party took GOD, prayer, the Ten Commandments and Bible study out of the American schools and the public square and replaced them with atheism as the official religion of the American schools and the public square. This is the outcome. Add on the marriage made in hell by women and the baby killing KKK slave democratic party in the 1970's when the democrat party gave America the genocide of babies in their own mothers wombs. Roe vs Wade would not have been possible if the American schools still had GOD,prayer , the Ten Commandments and Bible study. The democrat party took a page out of Nazi Germany on this one,took control of the education systems and brainwashed the next generations to be useful idiots.
"Why does it seem like only women are talking about this issue?" "I... Think women... Are just better... At this sort of thing..." Totally not because men who do get silenced or labeled as misogynists. Can't POSSIBLY be the case.
The reason why men can't talk about this is because they face cancel culture ,are getting silenced because society has been conditioned to be indifferent toward men !! Society looks at men as degenerates and easily disposable !! When women speak up on men's issues ,it is more acceptable and allowed because when it comes from a women it doesn't come across as toxic !! Men would be considered weak if they talk and a combination of the society at large and feminists men are not able talk about their ussues !!
Evertime men express their issues ,they are shouted down ,canceled and being called grape apologists ,desperate men and misogynists!! We do need help from women because the feminists respect women more and think of them as more respectable !! However ,we need BOTH, male and females to talk about issues afflicting men !! Without men you don't get the whole story!! Mr.reeves was a feninist supporter for years and though he speaks about our cause ,he talks too much about the gains of women and girls ! It is good that they are doing well ,but when we are discussing men's issues ,talk about mens issues !! Mr.Galloway ,on the other hand ,is a man who never really understands the issues of boys and men !! If you heard him talk on the topic of male loneliness, you can clearly see him as an opportunity that is trying to sell his book and gain the women's sympathy!! He plays both sides of the coin !! Bring in Warren Farrell, he understands our situation better !!
Well, the attitude of woman as victims (in general, though of course some women are victimized) and that men are “toxic” and worthless (until the right combo of bad boy, Little League coach, and six-figure dude comes along) is itself, for sure, toxic.
Most of us have learned the hard way that very often when we open up to women and expose vulnerability we are judged and often mocked for it. So yeah we clam up with women and talk to other guys.
There is definitely a double standard in that men are expected to give their full support for women's causes. Just acting like you don't care is enough to get you labelled as a misogynist. However going the other way women are free to brush off men's issues. It's no surprise that so many men have become bitter by all the double standards that benefit women yet having to be continuously bombarded by messaging that society still doesn't do enough for women.
That's true, I've spoken to a few hardcore feminists who were shocked that I, as a man, was not interested into this kind of discourse. I'm all for an equal society and questioning gender roles but do I really have to get deep into the feminist literature to be doing that? Of course not, just like I don't devote my free time to environmentalism and still do my best to be a responsible consumer and believe that we should take better care of our planet. It's only a matter of finding the axis you want to sit on and then acting in consequence, obsessing over it and making it your ''life mission'' is often pointless unless you get educated and become seriously invested into it to bring some change through your hard work but most people are not doing that, they just get very emotionally invested into something and then feel helpless and resentful because those are tough problems that they can't even tackle. It's important to concentrate your time and efforts onto something where you can actually make a difference. So yeah, I take my time to try and understand men's problems because I and the people around me are mostly lost men. I'm working on straightening myself out and then maybe I might go back to school someday because I'd like to be able to work with men who have debilitating porn addiction because this is where I was only a few years ago and there's little to no help for us people. There are dozens of organisms that help women, immigrants and LGBTQ people but good luck finding one that helps men other than an anger issues management therapy (which get funding because the victims are mostly women and children).
Yes because the progressive morality is based on using your morals against you to get you to 'do the right thing', but when they are asked to do the right thing, they simply ignore it because that is not THEIR moral view. "Your moral code demands that you treat me well, therefore you must, but my moral code does not demand that I treat you fairly, therefore, I won't."
@@montgomeryscot6623 the Barbie movie was the roles reversed. It’s a reflection of reality but much worse. Did you watch it? It couldn’t of been more clear. Also movies throughout history have been the roles reversed as well
Literally, what will? Men need drive and purpose . Whose going to hand it to them? I have no idea. They used to have purpose by default and now they have to actually go and find it. No one can do it for them. I think. What are we missing?
@@V.Hansen. In my view men need good women to form long term relationships with. Nothing motivates a man like a woman worth his effort. Beyond that, I'd say men need a commitment to some moral vision bigger than themselves - maybe a country or a religion, or a secular replacement for a religion if that's not your cup of tea. It's a tall order.
@@grannyannie2948 We're not going to change society to help men, so don't worry about being cared for by a man. Higher chance of dying from one's gunshot wound because he's so desperate for some kind of attention and feeling of control over his life that he starts seeing every person as an enemy and decides to shoot up a public space. Violent outbursts will continue to become more and more common as there are more and more men feeling like they have nothing to lose. Good luck out there.
I was giving a co-worker a ride and she literally came up with a reason to create conflict between us I just stared at her and didn't say a word and then she said yeah I guess I try and push that feminist thing too much ... like yeah I'm doing you a favor and I get called a bastard it's , it's crazy just because I was born a dude if thats not discrimination I don't know what is
@@LenAnderson856pretty clear they are not “obsessed with you”, but rather fed up with you because of your attitudes, and you really can’t blame them after decades of mistreatment by feminists, so get over yourself…
@@LenAnderson856 start by being honest and setting aside your imagination, but then you wouldn’t have a obvious fantastical story to share like you have.
I’m glad she cares but I couldn’t finish this episode. Dismissing Jordan Peterson takes more than “off the rails” and “attention seeking” I just can’t handle. That guy changed men’s lives and knows the literature. You don’t have to agree with him, but it’s hugely unreasonable that a hand wave can dismiss him and the good he’s done. She’s found the problem, but it doesn’t feel like she understands men enough to be a part of the solution.
She started that sentence with saying she like him at first and only in the last couple of years has she found him a little off the rails which is a sentiment I've heard echoed several times. I'm a huge fan of Peterson and even I find his positions a little hard to take at times. That doesn't mean this writer doesn't care. I mean she wrote a hugely researched piece with the intention of placing more of a light on the problems faced by men. So what if she doesn't like one of your heroes? Does that dismiss her overall ethos within this conversation? If I used your line of logic I could never listen to anyone since we all hold perspectives that are disagreeable to others.
@@dahliaherrod4301 and I started my comment with “I’m glad she cares” and gave this episode about 30+ minutes and skipped ahead to see if she had anything valuable as a solution and she just doesn’t have much to offer. My point however is regardless of how you feel about Jordan’s views on other issues he’s an accredited psychologist and teacher. He’s not some guy just making stuff up. So to dismiss his message and say he’s just some right wing guy (he’s a classical liberal) is a pretty ignorant way to characterize things. My issue isn’t that she disagrees with a man I like. It’s because he is right and she’s implying he’s not. Jordan solved the problem we know what the answer is already and people want to ignore it. I gave it a chance I don’t respect people who try to discredit people instead of ideas.
@@TylerjWebb Well firstly, Chris pretty explicitly stated he brought her on because she's a black woman who supports the need to highlight men's' problem within her article. She's a writer by trade. She wasn't there to offer solutions. Second of all, I don't like that she dismissed his work either, but she effectively summed up his solution in the last 15 minutes of the interview that you didn't watch where she advocated for personal responsibility. I think it's a mistake to dismiss people because they don't like the same people you do. Even Jordan advocates in 12 Rules for Life to listen to those you hate because they probably know something you don't. If at the end of all that you still took nothing from someone like her, get mad at Chris for bringing her on.
@@dahliaherrod4301 I’m not mad I’m just not interested in another 30 minutes. I said multiple times I’m glad you care and you are misrepresenting what I’m saying and that’s where I draw the line. If someone made a really compelling case for the second half I’d listen, but that hasn’t happened. I’m not saying she should stop. I’m not calling for her to be silenced, I’m just not here for this one. Maybe she will do something in the future that I will engage with more who knows I don’t rule it out. But for now, no thanks. She’s probably not going to read my comment and that fine I’m not hurt by it. And if she does I hope she takes the positives away instead of focusing on the fact that it didn’t do it for me. This also wasn’t my only issue, just the last straw for my interest. That’s all for this thread for me. Hope you have a great week.
Interesting discussion…. wasn’t going to comment on this one, as there was simply too many things. God bless her for attempting the dialogue, however even with her apparent openness, the blindness for why men are checking out is deafening. Thank you for commenting on the fatherlessness issue. It is, imo, one of the biggest issues at play on this topic. Modern society, family law, feminism has obliterated fatherhood.
I fully agree mate. She was kinda nudging in the right direction, and I really did enjoy most of what she said. But it was a slight disappointment to hear that the solution of one the biggest societal elephants in the room was a message akin to “men, do better”, rather than, hey, there may be systemic shite at play preventing fathers from being there for their kids.
@@annarboriter Married stay at home mothers are villianised by feminists in modern society despite performing the most important role in society and, based on statistics at least, doing it the best of anyone. Mothers still need a victimhood status for feminist support.
I've thought a lot about what male role models we have in the public sphere. There is one man that comes to mind for me, who and he is not typically associated with men's causes. I think that Keanu Reaves is an excellent role model, he has this inspiring blend of wholesome traits. He seems to have a strong sense of what he values and he sticks to them, along with a deep sense of kindness and authenticity that lacks arrogance.
High levels of competence are often interpreted as arrogance. Being disagreeable and standing up to your beliefs, values, and boundaries is what men do, and that can also come of as "arrogant" because women avoid conflict. Men can and will discuss facts and the nature of reality aggressively, and tone policing doesn't suit those discourses. Men have to earn their egos through struggle and by overcoming challenges. Reeves is ok but he's also soft and not rugged. I don't know any man who would like to model himself after him - outside John Wick.
I'd really urge as many men as possible to form groups with your closest mates at work, or through sports, or some other mutual endeavour, and enjoy time together exclusively without women and doing activities together. I have joined a number of paternities over the last couple of years, and it's changed my mental health significantly.
Yes! I’d like to back this comment as a witness of the positive effect of forming groups of dudes. My boyfriend use to have only a few friends he’d hang out with sporadically and spend a lot of his free time alone or with me. He has significantly changed, for the better, since being part of a group of men who do most of their activities amongst all-men. He’s become more ambitious, happier, more playful but also more mature. All positives! Men need to surround themselves with other good men (and not just in their workspace).
I totally agree. Unfortunately in my little nook of this planet, many men only groups were infiltrated by a small cohort of women who had no interest in the group itself, they just couldn't handle men having a space. Some even went to court. Anyway, your point is spot on.
I’m 46 and still feel I don’t know my place in the world as a man. It’s been a reoccurring theme through life and only feels deeper the older I get. Really great to hear these conversations about men being brought out more.
Just have fun, live a moral live, a moral life is a happy life, cut everything out that is not fun. Meat is more fun than candy btw. Give a f about woman if they are not fun
Men are just now starting to understand how you will be treated in divorce court. The judge just transfers the house, land, children , furniture, cars to her. They dont care about her bad behaviors. Then he has no rights to his childrens life. He has no rights for visitation. He owes her for another 18 years.
@@TheYaegerjeusmcMale victims of statutory rape still have to child support to thier convicted Female rapist once they turn 18 with back pay. While convicted male rapists are put in prison. If you do not think the legal system is biased you're blind.
@@TheYaegerjeusmcMale victims of statutory rape still have to child support to their convicted Female rapist once they turn 18 with back pay. While convicted male rapists are put in prison. If you do not think the legal system is biased against men you're blind.
@@TheYaegerjeusmc I hope she sees this. Generalisations aren't invalid just because not exactly every man is drawn and quartered by women and womens real husband, the State™.
A bit strange the way she seems to see JBP Ali G. as living in the same box and men's brains.. I see the two as totally different personalities, where I would love to work with/befriend one, and not let the other close to anything, that I cared about.
A myth is that women in the past were dainty flowers sitting at home. They were working fields, delivering babies, working in factories , scrubbing floors , caring for the elderly/ which is often heavy manual labor … should we be appreciative - respectful of men and all they do in society ? Yes 100% ❤
Yes, during WWI, while the men were overseas, women were back home felling trees, shoveling coal, working with poisons in munitions factories, building planes and guns, being police officers and jailors. That is why women got the vote in 1920. After they had taken over the grunt work and skilled labor, it was hard to convince women that they were too daisy-like and fragile to cast a ballot. A generation of young men had come back from Europe with modern eyes too. They had faced death and they were open to change because they had seen other cultures. I am in my 6th decade of life and so grew up in a more traditional time. The "no fault divorce" had just arrived. There was one female news anchor and then Maggy Thatcher came along. I really wouldn't have known about the problems of modern men without watching Chris' show. I don't know if older people are really aware of the trends.
researchers consistently fail to address the magnitude of this issue. People ultimately need love and validation. When a man doesn't matter to a woman, when she doesn't gaze at him with a loving smile, tell him she wants him/needs him, that he matters to her. A lot of guys have never had that. This will cause disillusionment/isolation/soul sadness and mental health issues in men. No amount of material things, por* will be able to replace that. The problem in the west is 2 fold. Incels can't get a woman and the ones that do get one, end up in divorce/breaking up or being cheated on and losing more than the lady. So they swear off relationships and end up lonely all the same. (Mgtow) Both have the effect of creating lonely, angry, atomised ppl and broken society with plummeting birth rates. And can spell the end of that society. What are we seeing in the west now? Falling sperm counts, falling testosterone levels, births, marriage, anomie and a rapidly ageing society, with catastrophic debt levels. White ppl used to have close family bonds but now they no longer keep ties with family and send old ppl to homes. Jobs for life are a thing of the past, from where they used to form friends. White ppl lost their matchmaking culture and used to marry form within their own tried and tested social circle. With all that now gone, internet dating and cold approaching/PUA random women that u know nothing about is the way. Which can be dehumanising and toxic. Peace
Toxic masculinity is a clinical term that only applies to a very small subset of toxic men (it came out from studying violent incarcerated men, and from having been to prison, I can tell you that these men exist) but popular media has mistakenly (but willingly) attributed it to all of masculinity and turned it into something else completely, thus poisoning the discussion around masculinity. I really hope that this term can finally fall into the same category as mansplaining and manspreading and that we'll finally stop talking about it.
@@nackedgrils9302 Those men exist but there behavior has nothing at all to do with masculinity, hence the problem. There is no evidence that those criminals are that way because of any form of masculinity. Clinically homosexuality use to be considered a mental illness, but nowadays we know better. The clinicians have a lot of blood on there hands, its there fault that this term is used like that.
There are arseholes everywhere, it's not down to what you have in your pants. My ex called my 14 year old son toxic, without even comprehending how much of a horrible cunt that makes her.
Chris and Christine spoke at length about the necessity of mentors and role models; I wonder if there's been any look into the elimination of male-specific spaces and the effect upon this? One example that made the rounds in the media awhile ago was the Boy Scouts of America opening their program to girls as well. The organization was originally founded as a way to socialize boys with each other while providing mentorship from men in the areas of life skills and leadership. Personal opinion, I've always felt that adding the social dynamic of women being present completely changes the experience, particularly when it comes to socialization. It very much seems to me there are no men's only spaces anymore. Where would a young man go these days to find a mentor, unless they already had a personal connection with one?
Very well said. Men only spaces are considered troublesome and sexist, but women only isn't. I learned so much being allowed to have male spaces as a young man. Boy scouts is a perfect example. I loved it. Now I would never recommend it. Crazy part? Girl scouts already existed. They had to destroy the boy's space anyway.
Boy Scouts didn’t allow girls in, they were FORCED to take in girls as well, that’s part of the problem, it happened in Canada in the late 80’s-early 90’s, that’s when my parents left scouting and pulled me and my brother out of the program, it has become just another girls club, from leadership down that occasionally let’s subjugated boys in…
I absolutely love how she says men need to be better, totally misses the point that single mothers are tragic failure especially when raising boys. Also, neither person points out that masculine traits developed will be those preferred by women. What it means to be a man will be a person who successfully reproduces.
Standard modern feminist, men's problems are men's to solve and wholly under their control. Women's problems are societies problems and it's up to men to fix it for them
In 2005, i was in my mid 20s and was doing a leadership course for work. One of the things i wrote for myself as a simple goal was to "be a man now" as i was still a man-child, bit of a victim, avoiding responsibility etc. When i said this to the group, the first reaction was a nasty "What does that mean?" from one of the women. I actually had to defend it with a reasoned response, which now i look back, it was just a toxic and undermining experience. That's almost 20 years ago
Question: how is that nasty? Unless the tone of it was uncalled for. As a woman, if a 20-something grown man wrote “be a man now” as a goal, I’d ask the same question as it’s unclear to me what it means.
Even as a young man I never was a victim,thought of myself as a victim, or avoided responsibility, I worked hard tried to make myself useful and helpful, let alone stand up and tell the world I had to be better, (and yes I was immature back in my teens) but I instinctively knew I had to make myself useful. Mayb it’s the office setting you were in, (I’m in construction going on 37years) but I’ve never had to say sorry for being a man, or had to say I’m a man child…….
@phreaquetalk To be a man is to realize that one only has their parents at the bare minimum and maximum extended family that care about them. Society as a whole could careless if a man is homeless or in trouble; it is their responsibility to improve their situation regardless of how feasible that is, or how impossible. And so, unbecoming a victim is important to become a man, as no one cares for a man outside of one own family. As one family does not live forever, a one needs to learn how to become independent and semi-self-sufficient; self-regulating emotions and self-serving needs and wants. To become a mature man, one realizes that violence towards others should be restraint, and that it should be used sparsely. Massive shows of forces, and impulsive use of violence to get one way is the sign of immaturity. Respect is used through work, experience and amiable behavior; not through the childish tantrum of a man-child or the feminist scream of victimhood. A mature man also realizes kindness is the greater good to restraint violence, and that they can attract other more effectively to them through kindness. Human kindness is a greater good, it is the only thing that can effectively reduce human suffering. Only through kind acts can human genuinely help one another. Due to the role men play in human society; men bare both the suffering posed by existence itself and by the burdens of society; first to be throw into wars, first to be selected for manual labor, first to be denied medical care and kindness. Men just like woman require kindness to reduce their mortal suffering; but yet men are the most commonly denied. And so, to be a man it means to suffer in silence. To hope one day that someone as enough to replicate the kindness that a man can experience from their of family.
@@barrydaemi6287 I don’t know where u get the idea that woman don’t experience all these things. To be a woman is to experience exactly the same. Nobody cares about woman any more than anyone cares about anyone. Yes woman get sexual attention but that means nothing.
Men are expected to “marry down” , but women are discouraged to do so. Men are disposable. We always will be. Just live your life and set hard boundaries for those you let into your life.
Virtually always true... until you get over 60 when we start increase in rarity value. I'm being targetted by a Doctor - way above my pay grade tho I'm not that bad. She's great so I think I'll ask her out. Women still won't do the asking. Why? Being rejected? Well its not great but keep it affable and low key ... " Hi my friend is ill and I've got a spare ticket for" This appeals to a man's gallantry and not too direct. "I'm going to town tomorrow but ... I don't know ... its a bit of a drive/ I've got to pick up a ...?/ its not a great part of town.
Men get to experience joy because we're disposable. Women get to feel anxiety because they're (reproductively) indispensable. Forced to choose, I'd take the former, every time.
Given the fact that men do all the important stuff around the world and there are literally billions of people with overpopulation being a huge issue: It is now the other way around.
I'll actually be "marrying down" as a woman, but I see how good of a househusband my fiance will make and a good father to our future children. So I don't feel at all like I'm losing out, but gaining as someone who's always been more career oriented.
Would love to see Chris sit down and talk to any of these men that have checked out of society, I want to hear what these men have to say, usually I get more insight from the comment section of these types of videos than I do from so called experts studying them, the men are telling you whats really going on, it's all out in the open. I've come to the conclusion that no one that needs to listen to them actually cares what they have to say.
Yeah, it's really weird. If I, as a guy, invited over a young woman to discuss what life is like for older women, then everyone would shout that I should be inviting an older woman and hearing her perspective. But when it's men checking out of society, no one even reads their posts, let alone invite them onto the show.
@@dumfriesspearhead7398 Obviously some people are reading the posts of those guys, but I don't get the feeling that Chris himself is, based on some comments he's made in some of his videos. I know that's vague and I could be wrong, just my impression.
@@lightworker2956 My guess it's all about notoriety of the guest speaker, in order to garner more clicks, Chris and everyone else who tries to speak on men's behalf is incentivized to bring on people who are well known and in the know, rather than speak directly to the people hes trying to understand.
There's a definite feeling of this. More than a few few blood boiling moments. I just finished Chris' podcast with George TheTinMen, and while he's a Labour supporter, and had lefty points, he parked them at the door, and acknowledged them where he thought they might be of some utility, not just to say them. Some of the things this lady says are made of straw and it rankles.
progressivism is like a wolf dressing as a shepherd and herding the sheep toward a cliff; for those who can't read between the lines, the devil is laughing it up as part of society abandons God then wonders why the same society is crumbling around them because there's no solid foundation
The core problem is not that there is no alternative vision for male role model, but that women's revealed preference is that they do not want a romantic relationship with that "ideal" male role that society is pushing.
Dude ive been thinking this throughout this time. They are just rejecting everything. They actually dont want to discuss new gender norms nor have an answer for men. At this point, they have gone aggro on men.
Yuuuuppp. They raise boys to be men they despise, and then blame men. They hate their own femininity, and then blame men. They self-victimize themselves, feed themselves victim narratives, and then blame men.
men already checked out a long time ago. Men checked out already such a long time ago that young men have to go on the internet to find out what it means to be a man. It all comes down to that men have no rights, woman select through sex, men through resources. Mens money is being taken away through force through inflatoin, taxes, child support. Money is a mans selection, you might smash that one girl, but not gonna spend any money on her. But in our society if its your kid, doesnt even have to be biological, automatically through marriage (marriage has always existed to scam men) you as a man have to pay for it, you are not allowed to exercise your biological natural selection which is saying no to paying.
@@MH3GL last time I checked birthrate everywhere is below 2, most people are overweight and we are on the verge of nuclear war, but idk, maybe we dont live on the same Earth, pretty sure Earth will do fine without humans, the question is is it still good for us
@@l.3626 the species is as resilient as any, we as a species will not get eliminated like your convenient thought suggests, rather, only MOST of us will be removed. the ones that remain will more likely return to a rapacious treatment of resources. you should really think these things through a little. we really do own the place, whether that's a comfortable thought or not.
It’s surprising to actually see an example of a productive conversation on such a complex and nuanced topic. I’m very grateful to both of you for your thoughtfulness!
What I would love to see is a conversation between Christine and the Tinman I saw some very obvious contradictions - the guest pointed out the role of absent fathers and the detrimental effect it has on kids. BUT had previously said that it was fine for a 2 women in a relationship to raise kids. Now Im seeing a clear contradiction and I wonder fine for who the parents or the Kids? Also there is a credible pointing out of absent fathers but as pointed out by the Timman we have suffered 30 plus years of a court system that has prevented good fathers seeing their kids. The narrative was "You don't need a man to bring up Kids" well to some extent we are reaping the implications of Bro-science being implemented in law
@@joe-k6w4e The way conversations happen matters. Everything is not a battle. It's an exchange. Sides incrementally show a little vulnerability, show they are willing to listen to a different perspective. That is *how* progress happens through discussion. It is not always just how to get someone to some predetermined end goal. So even a conversation like this is significant because you are seeing someone coming from a 3rd wave feminist education and mindset demonstrating open-mindedness and good faith (which breaks from tradition) and Chris is receptive to that. He wants to understand the core concern coming from that side. He wants to find good role models for men because he also cares about them. There's nothing weak or wrong about that. It's more disciplined and higher emotional IQ. People who are more steeped in the feminist side of things also open up gradually when it is modeled for them. Maybe we'll find out what points are valid in their criticism. This is the type of conversation my wife would actually listen to because she would feel it was an honest conversation. You cannot just completely reject what you see as the opposition. Do you think you are a better person than him? Who have you influenced? What have you accomplished? It's easy for an internet rando to criticize. His channel is successful because he is more open and making space for a more nuanced, neutral perspective.
From the video description: "But it begs the question of why it's come down to a woman to raise the topic of men's issues." Really simple: because rich / successful men aren't complaining about men's issues. Rich / successful men are having a blast. And no one cares about or listens to struggling men.
The reason for women talking about male issues is because whenever men have tried to speak out ,they are treated with disrespect called misogynist and get canceled all the time !! That is we need female allies !! They will be heard a little more and not canceled as much !! The feminists have done a good job of preventing men from being heard !! That's why we need good female allies that can make a difference and loosen the stranglehold that feminists have on social media!!
@@brianmeen2158 What would we work for? Also, we would we leave the social debates and politics completely to women? While working hard... Are you okay? Bumped your head?
Event if there are 1,000,000,000 feminists on this planet, there's still really only 1 of them at the end of the day. What a crippled and constipated way to exist.
I have 14 year old son and I worry. The lack of good role models, the way school don’t understand boys, and even discourages them , video games , I am very worried.
Masculine boys are treated as defective girls in schools now. Such an unforgivable shame that boys have to feel that their sex is considered a problem in the world 😭
Where is his father? Maybe you eliminate his father from your boys life. His role model supposed to be his father so bring him back. Dont just take child support money for yourself.
Video games are not inherently bad, just try to regulate the amount of time spent on them. To avoid gaming addiction. Make sure he gets exercise, either in a sport or martial art. Or just regular trips to the gym.
Clearly Andrew Tate has made feminists stop and think...hey if we keep running programs in schools to call boys toxic and potential rapists, then maybe the boys will stop listening to us. Andrew Tate has been a wake up for the toxic messages feminists have been putting out
Biology itself is misandrist. We are descended from twice as many women as men, meaning to pass down his genes a man had to impress a woman, where as to pass down her genes a woman just had to exist.
I would love to hear her thought process when she hits 60. I’m a spiritual crone at 70. Raised 5 children. Survived M1 cancer. Listening to this is like listening to a child.🙏 She hasn’t “put any numbers up on the board”.
People have been talking about this for decades. That people are "finally comfortable enough" says it all about how complex an issue this is, and why these issues don't get the attention they warrant. And it's why I can't give her that much credit. She stands on the shoulders of giants; to use an (maybe unfair) analogy.
Its never been a worse time to grow up male. 😅 Ive spent the last 15 years “fixing” myself only to find myself on a conveyor belt with carrot and stick. Even the best most positive people eventually grow dark and cold from this. I say this as someone who grew up fat and geeky and turned chad. Still not great. 😂🎉
I understand what youre saying but Id rather be alive today then being drafted and sent to France on the front lines of WWII like my grandfather. While living as a Black man facing jim crow laws, segregation and racism…ijs
@@brianmeen2158Comparing only objectively is the problem. Materialistically 2023 is better, safer, more comfortable, but I don't life for safety and I don't find meaning in comfort. I want to do _something_ and be well known and respected in my community. However even if I do well in my community right now I will still have to hear all the messages of how men are shit, abusive, toxic, violent, oppressive, and in other ways horrible. When I am seen that way simply for being a man I simply cannot find the will inside to work for this. That's why "objective" comparisons are simply not in any way useful here, because the problem of being a man today has nothing to do with material or objective and everything to do with the social. Unless you compare the social environments for men in 2023 and back then you simply cannot make a useful observation.
@@hungrymusicwolf seems like you need the validation and praise of others. Which is weird. And ppl are calling out bad behaviour from men as they should be doing. Men have gotten away with everything and it can stop now
Exactly. Feminism and the insatiable female is not sustainable. Soon as any major event happens its right back to natural order which is full blown unapologetic patriarchy.
I’ve come to the understanding that I won’t allow myself to be distracted debating with women about gender roles. Nowadays I’m too busy to be in a competitive relationship.
@@brianmeen2158it's because people like Christina, Chris and Richard Reeves are tone deaf. The voices are softer but the message is the same "men are the problem, fix yourselves".
After reading Christine's article... aren't women also lost? Generations of women fought for being seen/equality and they had their goals set for having a family and kids and a good life. Now everything was accomplished in the fight for being equal decades ago. Now they are going wild. Many women are a stray and become irresponsible, out of touch with their femininity and foremost with any accountability in life. They are teached that they can do no wrong and they don't need to change anything about themselves but the world has to change. With the ongoing promiscuity and sites like OF, many women removed themselves from the dating market. They are no longer a goal for men to have a family with. Many aren't worth the time and effort.
Do you need to ask even? Both sexes are so dependent on each other that if one goes to hell, the other will follow. Our societies degrade so much that we do not even see anymore how rotten things are. Listen to anyone talking about how life was in 1930-60 and compare it to now.
Reading her article just today, I agree. Some of her observations are on point, and her solution is still the very exact thing that created this issue, womanism. She effectively sees _some_ of the problem, and absolutely not the rest of the problem. It's a literal blind spot to her. What's worse, is the majority of the comments under her article… deplorable. It's an army of misandrists, essentially laughing at the issue. I read that while thinking in my head "don't you women understand that this is how you are going to go backwards ? Nevermind solving the issue, but laughing at it as if it's deserved, this is how you're going to lose some of the rights you have acquired !". The more things like this get explored and talked about, the more I'm getting convinced that _womanism in its entirety_ was a mistake, even the basic premise for its existence. It's like the more we give women, the more disgusting things get, how are they managing that ?
I think its because now that they have freedom and legal equality they realized that no matter how legally equal they are they will never be equal to men on their own. Not physically, not economically, and not socially. And that their entire world and even their equality was created by and handed to them by men. And that only happened because men were too exhausted from fighting the two largest wars the world has ever seen to keep on like they were doing. It's the same as a spoiled rich kid being handed the family fortune and business, they act out and are mentally broken because they don't have to work for anything and were handed an empire. Got a college degree? Special scholarships and initiatives to get more female students. Got that nice stem job after graduating? Because of DEI and female empowerment initiatives. Just replace DEI and empowerment initiatives with daddy's money and connections and you've got it. That's why modern feminist are so allergic to responsibility, they've been handed everything and constantly told that they deserve the world because they are special just like a spoiled rich kid.
I started regularly going into pubs when I was twenty. In pubs you would meet very old men, old men, middle-aged men etc. Through talking to men across the social spectrum, with different politics, earnings, marital status, ad infinitum. It broadens one's ability to act in society. I once saw a man in his sixties brow-beat a young thug in his twenties who was looking for trouble without leaving his bar-stool. It was an excellent example of non-verbal communication, of projecting masculinity in a positive way, avoiding violence and bullying. Now we have few proper pubs where generally men socialise. If you're married and thirty-five having marital problems, most won't look for help, but in a traditional pub, the old guys would have been there and done it, advice would flow, stress was reduced, marriages saved. We've lost that.
Make Pubs great again!! I guess that would mean making it men's only or by invitation, there has got to be a way to keep women quiet on the subject and keep them out. Like a pub that always changes its address on each night of the week🤔🤔 Let's face it tho...women will find a way to destroy it, we all know women can't stand seeing men congregate.
I don't go out and participate in pub culture primarily because it's too damn expensive nowadays. Can't afford the time and money doing that in Canada.
Our society is based on what marketing groups thought would sell and trend. Not what's good for society. And the collapse of digital media and Hollywood Is the result
they really dont care about men, they only care that they dont get anything from them anymore. The most terrible people in todays societies are actually woman, Im not saying they are all not moral, but many and woman dont have any consequences for it, you can kill your child and its okay. You can leave your man for a new one and still demand money from him. INSANE
The best part of this interview was learning that you did Romance novel covers lol. Joking aside it was very good interview. Thank you for your content.
The two most popular posters about feminism in 60s Berkeley were, “Women Hold Up Half the Sky” and “A Woman needs a Man like a Fish Needs a Bicycle”. Guess which attitude won out.
Wow I feel so much better now, I am glad that lessons learned and only my generation (may be next too) will be sacrifised for this beautifull social experiment.
Im 30, and it feels like the position society wants me to have, is outside of society. Like society just wants me gone from society? I don't know if other guys feel that way.
I think you missed a very important point to respond to at around the 15 minute mark. Christine says a good man should figure out what his "duty and responsibilities are", to which someone should point out that feminism only ever talks about duty and responsibility with relation to men. In fact, everyone usually frames these duties and responsibilities as what men should do *for women*. Meanwhile feminism is very hands off when it comes to saying anything about any duty or responsibility that women should have, and even less so about any duty or responsibility that women should have toward men.
Exactly, it has always been the same, men are told to account for obligations and duties while women are given leg ups and passes for everything. You want sexual relations to become normal? instill obligations and duties that is normative to the female sex and the men will follow as they often do when they see a fair shake. Right now, young men are seeing nothing worthwhile beyond sex when interacting with a woman because women offer nothing but sex, and you can chock this up to alot of factors present in modernity, for instance feminism is a big reason as to why sexual relations are in such a horrid state atm, another one is the digitization of relations, another one is the existence of items like the pill. A man desires their own progeny, a loyal wife, and a stable home, a woman desires their own progeny, a dependable husband, and a stable home, to get these items there are behaviors and archetypes that the majority ought to follow and unfortunately for leftists, the easiest and the most effective way to structure a complementary system between the sexes falls in line with the traditional archetypes of a homely woman and a dependable man Feminism, from Betty Friedan to Bell Hooks, is mixed up with a muddled idea that women are free when they serve their employers but slaves when they help their husbands.
Alhumdulliah. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the UK, Europe, the USA, and the whole world. So they must be getting married and having kids and families. We follow the guidance of God and it clearly defines what to do and what not. And the appropriate dynamics between the men and women that lead to a lasting, fruitful relationship. Oh, and it also tells us what a woman is! Peace
Women are given privilege in our society to do better, full stop. That's why women are better in all those metrics right now. They're not made of magic and superhuman. They're not better people. @plantbased9502
I'm a 40 year old guy. Considered myself a feminist for roughly 20 years. Knew and proliferated all the talking points before they were fashionable as they are on the internet today. Am thoroughly leftist. Closest label for my politics is probably anarcho-communist. I'm also fine with androgyny. I frankly like the "good person" model of things, and have never cared in the slightest as to whether anything about me is seen as masculine or feminine. I played football for 6 years and wrestled for 4. But also dyed my hair blue and grew it down to the middle of my back (not at the same time) in my late teens/early 20's, regularly got addressed as a woman in public, and didn't care. Thought it was funny. But I am thoroughly checked out from society and dating, and divorced from the left at this point. A process that started somewhere around 2016. And I don't identify with most of what's talked about here. What it is for me, is the left's aggressive opposition to empathy or acknowledgement for the fact that women can be abusive to men. That the side of politics I used to associate with offers absolutely zero standards of behavior for women in their model of society, yet demands absurdly high standards of men. Requires absurdly high standards of evidence in order to accept any allegation of a woman mistreating a man, but often no evidence whatsoever to accept allegations of a man abusing a woman. Will treat anyone who describes themselves as a male victim with intense suspicion, and invalidates male experiences without the slightest care. Despite what I was raised to believe about the issue, almost every man I know on any personal level has been in an abusive relationship with a woman, or been raped or sexually abused by a woman. Which does not diminish the high rate at which women also have those experiences at the hands of men. What it means is the issue should not be gendered. But the left's dogmatic gendering of the issue empowers female abusers. In a myriad of ways, but including influence over the law, as with the Duluth Model. Not that the discussion here doesn't land with a lot of people. But I think it's severely underappreciated how many men are checked out simply because interacting with women on anything more than the most mundane transactional level is fucking dangerous. Not because women are worse than men. Don't mistake this for a misogynist rant. But because terrible women do exist, as much as terrible men exist, and terrible women at the moment enjoy the support of our culture and society to be terrible. As a man, if you happen to get mixed up with one, you have zero recourse. None. And not only that, but if you make that mistake, you come away from that experience with a visceral understanding of how much society has evolved to hate you. Of course men are opting to stay home and play video games. Talking about stuff like lack of male role models is fine, but... turning it into a primary focus is pretty condescending in the context of a reality where there are much stronger explanations. Imagine telling women in the 60's that what they really need is role models to teach them how to be themselves. It's pretty much the same. And I, about the most anti-conservative person imaginable, have been flirting with manosphere content for the last few years. For the exclusive reason that it's willing to recognize that I exist. It's the only source in the world for any no-strings-attached validation of my experiences having been trapped in an abusive relationship for 20 years. They offer the slightest shred of empathy. Whereas if anybody outside the manosphere suffers to acknowledge the issue at all, it is to be as unempathetic as possible.
Thanks for taking the time to write all that dude. I paused the video and read it properly. It would be great if Chris acknowledged this comment in some way. Unlike many RUclips comments, this one adds to the conversation on a pretty eloquent level. And yeah I checked out a long time ago. There is a cruel irony in my case however. Until about three years ago I was socially awkward and generally just saw women as "the other". Happy to say I've eroded a lot of psychological boundaries and being a personal trainer has totally gotten rid of what I call the hot girl jitters. But now that I am more comfortable and confident and literally ready to date women - I am choosing not to. Because as you say - they are dangerous creatures right now. And I am in my early 30s, working my ass off to save/earn my way out of a lack of productivity or guidance through my 20's... And so on top of everything - a relationship, not to mention one that will probably go awry given time for exactly the ideologies that are being discussed in this video, will derail the already fragile existence I have as a man in today's society. Indeed, much better to come home after a hard day of training about 8hrs of sessions with clients, focus on a good healthy meal and sit down with Elden Ring until it's time to go to bed. Much safer. A very sad story to the married boomer with limited perspective perhaps. But safer
Excellent comments. One note on the "good person" point. The laws in the US are certainly very slanted in favor of women in regards to marriage and family court law. A man can be the "best person", but if a divorce turns ugly, woman have the legal club to buffet men with. "He abused me" doesn't even require any police reports to support the claim, and yet the courts will reward that behavior with preferential decisions. There are men in jail for the sole reason that they lost their job and couldn't keep up with child support payments. They serve their time, get out, can't get a job anywhere close to as good as they had before (because they now have a record) fall behind on child support again...and go back to jail. A never ending cycle. (see article entitled "Skip Child Support. Go to Jail. Lose Job. Repeat." from the New York Times). I'm sure you've read the quip, "Never sign a contract with someone who has an incentive to break it...", but there are large grains of truth therein.
One of the huge issues underlying issues is that women, and men, and feminism, and the patriarchy, and conservatives, and the Church, and both side of politics, in fact all societies everywhere, at all times, see men as disposable. Men have little value in and of themselves, their value is only assessed insofar as it provides a tangible benefit to other interests. All the tolerance of abuse, all the suicides, all the health issues, all the dispossession, all stem from the fact that men are not valued in and of themselves, for themselves. Their problems can only be admitted when it impacts people other than men. Men suffer from an empathy gap, always have, always will.
@@dharmadasa66 Yeah, the empathy gap is absolutely real, and I do think it is the undercurrent of everything. I can even recognize it in myself and have to consciously account for it now that I've become aware of it.
I just want to know that I can be valued as a person, but every time the mainstream starts talking about what's going on with men, the problem they see is that there's nothing they can get out of us
@brianmeen2158 eventually i want to have a relationship and to start a family, but i know ahead of time that when I'm ready to date I'm going to find myself surrounded by people that are only there for selfish and superficial reasons.
I'm one of those older guys who mentors younger men. However, the headwind we both have in so doing is push-back from the women in the young men's lives, either specifically telling them old guy ways perpetuate patriarchy or telling them they just prefer the newer "evolved" sort of man. A preference which typically in fairly short time results in those women not being romantically attracted to those men desperately trying to figure out how to be what it is those women want. I repeat my advice to be themselves as they work on developing integrity (operating in objective truth) and character (the ability to follow through on a decision after spirit in which it was made has passed). Their response is that the women tell them those are the qualities they want, but when the time comes for truth-telling or executing an unpopular decision those same women ratchet up the wrath. I've seen and heard this more and more over the past 15 to 20 years. Truly saddening to watch their learned helplessness as they find themselves in what seems like an inescapable no-win situation.
I tell young men to ignore what women say. It's all pleasant sounding bullshit anyway. Be fearless and stop trying to navigate the cultural maze. Learn to trust and follow your own judgment.
As black man, i admire the way she (as a black woman) is addressing men's issue with emapthy and objectivity. That is very difficult taks and delicate balance to strike. I hope we can go from conversations into policies and actions. I personally think individualism in its radical form in america has to be addressed. Then we can talk about creating male- role model and male bounding activities for every racial and ethnic background. Boys only schools, reforming the boys scouts. Those are great places to start.
40:00 This segment here was very interesting and informative. Based on what I’ve observed the left has a bias against men because metaphysically they view men as their oppressors, thus fundamentally the cause of all their problems. Them acknowledging men’s issues in their world, would basically mean they are giving their oppressors a helping hand, when in fact they believe that they themselves need it the most. Those pathological beliefs and sentiments towards men gets even worst the farther left you go. In my honest opinion, there is no Left without men being the center of their problems through the “Patriarchy”. The left doesn’t understand that their view of men are causing a lot of men to move on to the Right in great numbers, when they themselves always say that they need men to join in their fight and support them. But how can men do that if you simultaneously see their existence as an issue? I’m not saying the Right has everything figured out for men either, but at least they resonate with men more and don’t blatantly disregard men’s struggles. Just like Chris pointed out before, many men are trying to find answers and good role models either through the likes of Jordan Peterson or Andrew Tate. The Left doesn’t have any spokesperson for men, which the Right does have currently, whether we want to acknowledge that or not.
The worst part is the right doesn't even work to solve the problems of men. They just don't treat them like evil monsters out to oppress. Men really don't ask for much.
Its interesting how when we support, build up, and help men, the more we alleviate the issues the so-called Left perceives as a "patriarchy." Strong, fulfilled, and happy men would keep women and minorities safer, and the men would more likely be on their side.
Agreed. I'd add that we also have a huge gap in the market for good female role models. Perhaps if there were more, we may see women adopt a more positive perception of men.
I once said to someone something about "behaviors characteristic of young men being deemed somehow toxic" and they got pissed that 1) they're not characteristic of young men, but of misogynists, 2) they actually are toxic, not just being claimed so for no reason, before I even specified what behaviors I was talking about. This was my first encounter with what I'd call something like self-reinforcing dual rejection. Completely denying one claim and on the basis of this denying another, which only makes it seem more likely that the first one was actually wrong in the first place. It seems to me pretty common in various discussions, especially political.
Yep. You call it dual rejection. I liken it to a lightsaber beam shooting out, but clearing one side, then the other, in a serial yet somehow instantaneous manner. It… doesn’t make sense, like my comment maybe.
I didn't check out of the workforce due to LACK of support, and I don't see the abortion "roll back" as a regressive movement against women. This woman doesn't speak for all women, thank you very much.
I’ve watched several of your interviews and enjoyed them for the most part. This woman, however, is clearly on the political left and dislikes men in general. It’s obvious from many of her more subtle statements that she wants men to get it together so that they can better serve women. That’s unfortunate bc much of what she has to say is valid. Those validities are voided by her underlying thoughts on the matter. All of her laughing vitriol is directed towards the “manosphere” and those who are prominent within it. A careful examination of all she says here clearly shows that.
With women working, who raises the children?? The state? Daycare workers? Who installs morality and ethics in children? How does a boy know what a man is if men are removed from the home? How does a girl know what a woman is if the mother is gone from the home?
"The second you say toxic masculinity most men check out of the conversation" This is because if a person says "Toxic Masculinity" they are attacking men because they can't define what is and isn't "Toxic Masculinity" so why bother having a conversation when it is clear that the person who is talking to you doesn't know what they are talking about, and will be unwilling to admit it and if you press them for those definitions they will say that you are a toxic man. It is just a different way of having a conversation and you say something that disagrees with the other person's perspective and they say that's racist, and there is nothing you can do at the point because they have labelled you as something not worth interacting with or believing.
tbh I don't care what the media tells woman go be an astronaut w/e, but what was seriously fucked up in the last 20 years and took me a lot of time to get around was not necessarily needing encouragement, but being actively discouraged. That is fucked up, and now that I'm awake, that's what I'm pissed about.
Father's are absent because of women's choices and actions. Single mothers are single because women choose to exclude the father - either from divorce or social security etc.
For those who do not believe you. Few examples from what I've seen of "single mother". #1 Woman reaches 35 years, wants a kid but she is still single. So she makes it with the first guy she can and often even without his consent. No wonder he either leaves her instantly or after few years. Yes, he is an asshole for creating a kid and leaving, but in the end. Men have no say in abortion or in anything really so all they are left is with running. And they are still considered bigger assholes for running than woman for killing. #2 Few guys I know made the same stupid mistake: "I am a good earner, so you do not have to work, just take care of kids, easy life." So easy that they got bored and ruined all of their lives. Most of the time those wives are doing all they can to alienate the father. #3 Standard non-working marriage divorced when the kids are around 10 years old. These kids mostly still have both parents though, just separated.
Can’t believe you let her say men need to take it upon themselves to role model when so many are actively excluded by the women. Dads haven’t become less fatherly over time on average. Plus the older men who don’t have issues with masculinity grew up in a time of clearly defined male role models.
I know! What delusional hypocrisy. Textbook feminist response to blame and shame men for the world’s problems when the women caused all the problems. No wonder 3 out of 4 men are dying from their own hand and abusing substances to kill the pain. They will never accept accountability
Bro all I wanted and still want is to not be discriminated against. If I wasn't discriminated against I would've paid off my student loans by now, made at least 20% in my career, had enough saving for a down payment for a house, and could've likely found a wife and started a family by now. Literally just cut the shit and leave us alone. I'm sorry but this woman is just...it's another woman thinking like a woman about how to solve men's problems...if men were women.
At about minute 21 she talks about abortion rights being 'rolled back'. This is a common misunderstanding. The fact is that even someone as far 'Lefty' as the late SCOTUS Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg knew Roe was doomed and would be overturned. Roe never actually secured abortion rights (SCOTUS cannot invent rights or grant them), that was a myth and it left women in a position where they didn't do the things that would have actually secured a right to abortion (an Amendment, or getting it secured in the laws of each State). Precedent can be overturned, and a later court of a different makeup will often do exactly that. That is why you should NEVER let the courts legislate from the bench. BTW: Gays are in the same boat now. The decision that made gay marriage the same as heterosexual marriage is on the same shaky footing. Gays should be working in ever state and territory to make gay marriage legal in those jurisdictions so that when the time comes that the SCOTUS 'changes its mind' they would still have their marriage rights secured.
I'm 62. Growing up in Canada we had the concept of a young man of going on a quest. Some of us went to Europe with a backpack, some of us went into the wilderness. Either way at 18 we left home alone and went forward and tested ourselves. We came home with stories, we were men. Old school.
You're describing a rite of male passage, something boys need before they are considered men. The Australian aborigines called theirs a "walkabout," where a young man has to go out in the world on his own and survive in order to prove his mettle. We don't any rite of passage in modern Western society, except maybe military service.
Welcome to the greatest new thoughts of the 1980's. All these issues were being recognized in the early 80's. and talked about in the 90's. But the hatred and exclusion of men was more important.
I thought this was a brilliant and constructive interview until the last few seconds when she endorsed “Barack Obama and Mitt Romney” as masculine role models - and I just about died laughing! Way to tank your credibility in the outro! It turns out you can indeed talk to a feminist about masculinity, but in the end, it’s just a huge waste of time! 😂
Women don't understand men. Women don't get to define masculinity or how men should behave. "Society" doesn't get to do that, since this is also women and their husband-pets, funtime boyfriends and their simp orbiters. This here is about how the establishment is concerned about men walking away and organizing themselves outside of it. Also about men not helping to keep things together while everything goes into collapse (climate, environment, demographics, debt, ...).
right, I can at least see from a certain persuasion why she would believe that there would be those who would think of Obama as a role model, but the fact that she would think ANYONE would actually think of Romney as a role model but just not want to say it, is hilariously out of touch
I think you’re right, those suggestions were laughable. Obama was a leader but also reasonable for avoidable civilian deaths and a whole host of other scandals. Not a role model. I don’t know much about Romney. Despite this, I wouldn’t dismiss the rest of the conversation, or its sentiments. We all say dumb stuff from time to time, but it doesn’t invalidate everything else we say or do.
Instead of just calling an example laughable, a rational person would give examples of what was wrong about them and give their own positive examples. I see admirable qualities in both of those men.
1: I never claimed to be a rational person. 2: Obama and Romney were both corporate cronies who only strove to maintain the status-quo for their political donors. 3: Trump, whatever his faults, was independently wealthy, and was thus willing and able to buck the establishment. 4: Hence, Trump = Manly Man, Obama & Romney = Effeminate Lackeys - IMHO.@@V.Hansen.
@@brianmeen2158 more accurately it’s like getting a ideologue with little to no awareness of anything including themselves to give advice to people they have been taught to hate.
she does not, once you realize that those are the people who understand mens problems the best you realize that nothing will change any time soon. This has been going on for atleast a century neglection men on a global scale, why not 40 years more?
It's about the fear of the established mainstream culture loosing their grip on men, and being concerned. We might be headed into a recession or collapse, they don't want men walking away from caring about all these old women which are a burden.
@@NoidoDev you dont understand, we are already in the middle of it. With the digital revolution productivity didnt grow, let that sink it. We have declining birth rates already since a long long time. Its far below replacement level, south korea leanding with 0.84 per woman, btw the childless woman are the problem, not the mothers, mothers get as many children as they have always been getting. And we are in a huge recessions since centuries. You just dont see it bc it is being covered up by inflatoin
They will need the men to rebuild the civilization from the ashes, after the pendulum swings back from this insanity and reaches equilibrium again. It’ll be a messy situation
Jordan Peterson has helped more men go the positive way then most people would care to do. He has helped men become a better masculine men and to stay away from “toxic type.” But other than that great conversation.
The other problem we have in America is that it’s impossible to survive financially anymore unless you have two working adults in a household. We don’t pay enough or have enough stability in jobs for only one head of household to work and for that fam to survive anymore. Housing is way too expensive. Actually everything is way too expensive but mostly housing, food and decent vehicles.
Men need to do the wise thing for these circumstances. This means men stay in their parents basement and play video games. In no way should a man be anything more than politely absent from such a misandrist culture.
The irony is that in the start of this video, they glossed over 'men are earning less than they used to' - Uh, no duh, you doubled the workforce, the increased competition is going to lower wages.
I respectfully disagree. Our living standards are the highest in history. The average home today is 3x the size of the 1950s. We have tech and labor saving devices they only dreamed of. We live longer and healthier lives than at any other time in history. The 21st Century has been the most peaceful one in history. It would be great if people actually knew any history - they'd be a lot more grateful. Living on one income is completely doable with the right skillset. But most people dont want to work that hard. It has much more to do with material expectations and priorities. And finding a sympatico mate, planning, deferring, and sacrificing. All the things we suck at as a society.
I am not sure going to university in a non stem major is a useful addition for even females. They are trapped by loans and have to have a career to pay it off. This displaces them from the fertility window even if there academic hypergamy targets for them. Meanwhile young men have bombastic role models (influencers) or men's movements focus on isolation and self-aggradation. So this leaves us with an atomise society and the breakdown of communities.
The overreach of 'feminism' is one of the reasons I have exclusively chosen roughneck blue-collar jobs that tend to be very physically demanding. It doesn't sit well with me if I'm doing a job that the fairer sex can do. The cost of these choices can be reflected in earning potential (bank account points!). But that's a price I'm willing to pay to avoid the self-inflicted neuter job with all this sensitivity training. Embrace the inner caveman, folks. It's what brought us to the dance in the first place.
@kc6810 I hear ya. To each their own. Two things: my goal isn't to be manly or to fill some paint by numbers predetermined role... just doing me and trying to honor the voice within. And your concern for some hypothetical future danger may rob you of experiencing the present moment. All the best.
The reduction of the number of men working in teaching and the "caring" professions has reduced in parallel with the impact of feminism in society over time. Men who work with children and vulnerable people have a giant target in the middle of their back.
That is a bit exaggerating and parts of it are valid for women as well as also a female teacher has to treat many things in teaching/education differently than 30 years ago to avoid court. Often male teachers and social workers are even appreciated. I like how relaxed and serious this conversation was, but in the end things should be also not dramatised: Despite some alarming developments and problems, many men do still rather well and are also roll models.
@@florianmeier3186 lol I have my doubts you're a teacher, based on your grammar But if it's being over exaggerated, why aren't men entering these professions in numbers like the use to? It's because it's not being over exaggerated, if anything bias against men is still under reported and denied
I'm 74 and in a way went through all this before all this came to pass. My wife was the high earner and I fell into the support roll. 19 years in I got dumped much like many women had happen when men turn to the younger women issue. It wasn't the same but there was resentment over being the higher earner and perhaps I didn't give back equally. I'm not blaming her though. I have been spending the last 40 years just attempting to understand. I suspect you will find the answers in the long marrieds who really love one another. A pattern I see there is people who really appreciate they true nature of love that the world misunderstands. Less about feelings and more about qualities found in saints. That brings back faith.
I think you are on the right path with saintly values. Society has become all about the emotions Aka 7 sins.. As for relationships just look at what is “expected” when it comes to marriage.. minimum spend on rings, minimum spend on wedding etc etc.. Lost in the emotions of worth, they become worthless to the relationship itself. As they say “tricked by business”.
Not your fault, I was married 12 years, last two I went from being primary earner to primary care giver as a result of the economic crash of oil, as a couple we both agreed that i would be stay at home dad as jobs that were available would not cover childcare expenses and she had secure well paid job. It took all of two years for her to become resentfully as a result of entitlement, despite me doing a very good job of being a home maker, she started heating, then abusive, eventually physically, where I left as a result. She resented having to take on the responsibility mostly reserved for men, while already enjoying the same if not more privileged men have.
This conversation is so incredibly relevant, which makes it frustrating to see so many comments from people that clearly didn't listen to the episode. In the first few minutes of the episode, they laid out how difficult it is to even begin because you have to clarify the nature that although they are saying one thing they are not discounting another. I see from these comments that there is a critical thinking theory missing from the descents, two things/ideas/truths can be present at the same time, the MeToo movement CAN be a good thing while also bringing about negative consequences, there can be war and peace within the same country just because one thing exists does not discount the other from existing as well. The hosts literally outlined this theory in the very beginning.
"they laid out how difficult it is to even begin because you have to clarify the nature that although they are saying one thing they are not discounting another." And yet, throughout the entire discussion Christine blamed men for every ill that was mentioned, and not once did they blame women for anything nor even come close to placing an ounce of obligation upon women. The take away from 'how difficult the discussion is without a host of caveats' should have been: "Ignore the caveats entirely because it is unnecessary to virtue signal to the progressive left in the first place'. It is not at all hard to talk about the issue in real terms without waffling about or walking on eggshells to avoid the nonsense virtue trip wires.
Well, but your example does not fit well: There is no peace in war especially within the same country. Todays wars are too severe to have no impact in the surrounding. However, I would agree that the valid point here was that crisis in men does not mean we have just to move backward and making women less capable to satisfy men, but invent something new acknowledging the facts of biology, but also of cultural and economic developments and maybe the best statement in the talk: It will need some time.
@@shawn4110 I do not see that she blamed anybody except society as such not excluding women. I also do not see that women as such do any harm here. There are specific men and women in special positions who might misuse their influence or overcompensate what was missed in the past with good or bad intentions, but there is no point to blame one sex specifically here and it is also a bit simple to just blame one political direction. If we are honest, few really want to go back to 19th century society. Wishing a better standing for men does not require marginalising and blaming women.
Emba has no right to have an opinion on these topics. She clearly hasn’t taken any time to properly diagnose the issue and therefore her prognosis can only perpetuate the disenfranchisement of men. Men make up most CEOs and politicians? Must be because of discrimination, not the fact that most women don’t want a job that requires working so many hours per week, being away from home, giving up time with family. Women are doing better in school? Must be because men are failing, not because teachers (who are overwhelmingly female) are harsher on boys and the school system itself is tailed for how girls learn. Her article is valueless pap that shows how disconnected the Left is from reality. It’s just the same old, “men are suffering, women most affected.”
Take your own advice, stop being hypocritical. You can’t say that women in the workplace are there because of choice, but also boys in the education system are failing because it’s rigged against them. You can’t claim that boys are discriminated against in school by female teachers, but then maintain that women at jobs are just having a grand old time at the hands of male bosses. And see, this is precisely why so many women struggle to empathize with men, you have never emphasized with us. When women are getting the short end of the stick, we’re just inherently inferior, but when males struggle, it can’t be their fault and the entire system is flawed. You clearly don’t like being treated in such ungenerous ways, so don’t do it to the other half of the population! This talking point confuses the shit out of me anyway because how was the school system possibly designed for girls when women were not allowed (higher) education until 5 seconds ago? I think at the administrative level it’s still men in charge, I think the majority of principals are still men. Did something radically change, is the sex of the teachers accounting for this effect? Or were the men who set up the school system centuries ago just poisoning the well for future boys?
the problem is men dont have any rights, woman select through sex, men through resources. Mens resources are being taken away through taxes, inflation and child support through state force. Woman not only have their selection rights, but also offloaded the burden of their gender on men, which is usually the cost of pregnacy. Feminists saying they are fighting for equal rights, bla bla, its bullshit, woman have their natural selection rights + they have mens rights. If woman had no rights, they would sit in cages and men would be allowed to have sex with any female they wanted at any time as often as they wanted, clearly not the case, clearly no men would want that.
I'd love to see a conversation with a woman that agrees with that ideology that doesn't already agree with you. So many of these "conversations about conversations we need to have" sound great and are important, but I do feel like the people who are speaking like this don't tend to actually have the hard talks.
Because they are not allowed to place any fault upon women nor even hint at any accountability or responsibility given to women. The guest here said it herself 'we don't want to lose the gains women have made', but all the gains women have made have been special rights and privileges gained while shedding all accountability and responsibility. Midway through the talk they exchanged examples of what men are 'supposed to do'. If the conversation were stopped and Chris asked 'what do women have to do and what obligations must all women perform' - there would have been crickets, and yet, women want to keep 'all their gains' which is indeed just a list of special privileges rather than 'equal rights'. You will unfortunately, never see the needle move on this topic in any meaningful way because the progressives don't actually want to end the gender war; they very much want a gender war, they just want women to win it.
@@shawn4110 this is a show on the crisis of men. Why are they talking about women at all? Women don’t need to be included at all. Women aren’t stopping men from doing anything.
@@Yomel123 They are indeed. Society has put in place a myriad of positive discrimination measures that favor women and disenfranchise men throughout their education and career. Progressive women are also the inventors of toxic masculinity, and the ones pushing for male nature to be demonized. Feminist women are the ones who lobby against any services for men, and lobby to amplify advantages for women. Modern women are the reason relationships moved from traditional courtship to promiscuous hookup culture post their sexual revolution. Men are dropping out precisely because they are discriminated against, demonized by society as toxic, and the traditional motivations men pursued have been removed, thus, demotivating male achievement. If this were a show about women's struggles, you can bet your butt that at least half of it would be talking about how 'oppressive' men are, and how the 'patriarchy' was holding women back.
@@Yomel123 Of course talking about women needs to be included because it's the vocal women on social media platforms that are actively denigrating men and telling men how they should feel about everything from fitness to relationships to how they need to behave according to their standards. Now add in gender quotas and the fact that most young men are raised by single mothers, there is absolutely no way for men to escape the type nonsense being forced upon them through societies nonstop catering to women. Every single male oriented space is being forced to be co-ed for absolutely no reason. Any place that reserved for men has to be forced to comply with allowing women or is perpetually attacked until it is dissolved but at the same time there are women only gyms, events, clubs, pricings, etc. You can't talk about equality and the need for feminism if there is constantly a thumb on the scale tilting things in one direction over the other and then me
@@Yomel123 Women are largely responsible for the problem, through their support of misandric feminism. Basically, women as a whole have no empathy for men. Also, patriarchy and feminism both see men as disposable, not worth anything in their own right, but only valued to the extent they benefit others.
It is interesting to have different prespective on the crisis on men. I hope you look at the crisis on men in the legal prespective, ie harassment on men, the legal double statand on men, etc.
Even when commenting on young boys, who aren't yet men, there is still the jab at their masculinity, as they're more likely to "wilt". Ms Emba doesn't take into mind that there are many more services and supports for girls and women, than there are for men. It's doubtful that girls bounced back without them. However, for boys, and it's a hard lesson, they're on their own.
Lmfao wtf do you mean “every other country is fine”? Wtf do you mean by “fine”? Every other country is also the scene of terrible human rights violations.
@plantbased9502 you're spreading a largely false narrative about history. A more honest account is that the female contraceptive pill liberated women from their own biology and allowed them to participate in aspects of society other than from within the home.
Younger men may struggle more with masculinity than older men as a result of growing up in the modern era. More single mothers, man hating, over abundance of “strong female characters” in Hollywood, lowered requirements for the same job in police/fire/military positions, worsening outcomes in divorce and family courts, social media, etc. Men have the same expectations as they always have but get less rewards while basically nothing is expected of women but they get handed anything and everything they want…even when they do not deserve it and/or have not earned it.
Handed anything and everything they want? Where? Where’s my handout? I’m out here broke as fuck and grinding my ass off to do well in university and train myself for a job. I didn’t know it was as easy as existing with a vagina 🙄
Alhumdulliah. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the UK, Europe, the USA, and the whole world. So they must be getting married and having kids and families. We follow the guidance of God and it clearly defines what to do and what not. And the appropriate dynamics between the men and women that lead to a lasting, fruitful relationship. Oh, and it also tells us what a woman is! Peace
27:28, when she said that Dr. Jordan Peterson is somewhat of an "attention wanting figure", is when I checked out. I could just as easily say that she wrote her article for attention, and that's why she's in public...
I get the feeling that things aren't really going to change, possibly ever. Men have, since time immemorial, have always been the vast majority of the homeless, soldiers, outcasts and 'undesirables'. I do not believe that our fortunes will change because there is so much resistance to even talking about it and that when those conversations do happen, they are relegated to isolated containment at best and derision at worst. It seems more likely to me that the fortunes of women will diminish and be rolled back. I would rather we take seriously men and men's challenges while retaining the solutions to women's traditional challenges, but I often feel the wind blowing in the direction that the future human holds no empathy for anyone.
I'm out there but single moms don't like raising kids by themselves really and their kids will know more single moms out there more damage think about it raising boys men ain't.....raising girls this is what you do too get a man ...no empathy left your right it's not rocket science @ its gonna get worse .
You are correct imo, things will be about the same for men in the future and things will be worse for the types of women who want to occupy traditional male roles/spheres.
It'll change.......when things get bad enough. Most people can still easily do the 8hr gig and pay bills. They b*tch but aren't starving....yet. Once things finally get to a low enough point things will change. Will probably be a lot of life lost but that's what happens when a society goes full ret*rd and loses touch with basic natures that haven't changed since the beginning. My hope is that enough masculinity has been bred out of the modern man that the low point is much lower. Maybe then the lesson will last longer.
Good discussion. Glad it is finally in the mainstream. What is not being discussed is the following: - open misandry - assuming single parent households are exclusively the fault/failing of men and that they are not in the child’s lives
It was hilarious to see Chris mention Gamma Bias and then proceed to use gamma bias when he mentioned single parent households. It was clear that both him and Christine were referring to single mothers. Chris seems to be putting himself forward as a potential role model for young men but he panders too much to women policing of language.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
Hello you beauties. Access all episodes 10 hours earlier than RUclips by Subscribing on Spotify - spoti.fi/2LSimPn or Apple Podcasts - apple.co/2MNqIgw. Here’s the timestamps:
00:00 Christine’s Controversial Article
02:31 What is Happening to Men Today?
09:54 The Term ‘Toxic Masculinity’
16:39 The Failings of Modern Feminism
22:20 Why the Right Adopted Men’s Issues
25:20 Why Male Issues are Represented by Women in Mainstream Media
30:54 Are Conservative Men Are More Attractive?
37:16 Why the Left Are Ignoring Men
46:17 Recognising Female Success & De-gendering Male Success
52:32 Is the Masculinity Crisis Impacted by Absent Fathers?
1:00:43 The Need for Single-Sex Spaces for Male Bonding
1:09:05 Who is Trying to Provide a Solution for Men?
1:20:56 Has the Left Criticised Christine?
1:26:03 Where to Find Christine
It would be great to have the lead attorney on but love the podcast. Keep up the great work
"The left is not offering a role model for men"
No, they've actively demonised masculinity. You can't simultaneously talk about masculinity in similar terms to 'original sin' while creating your own masculine role model. You just look like a fool. Also, 'girls bounce back better than boys' - but are girls short of female role models? Yes, the men's sheds movement is an Australian invention, I think there's been a bit of pushback from feminists and there's some variation in acceptance of some women in them, some sheds yes, some sheds no. But I don't know what's been happening recently.
Do a podcast about male vs female crime, domestic violence, and homicide.
Incredible work and depth and maturity from both of you. I think you both need to build your pill together ❤️
33:30 Chad Williamson
Chris talked recently with another guest who made a very striking observation about how the women's movement demanded men speak more about their feelings and what was troubling them, but then doesn't ever want to actually listen to the answers unless those answers are the ones they want to hear.
That Christine highlights a number of comments on her article to the effect that "Yes, we know there's a men's crisis, why are we still talking about it?" just goes to show how accurate the above statement is. The women's movement wants to hear men agreeing that toxic masculinity and the patriarchy are getting in womens' way. They do not at all want to hear that browbeating individual men will never get them onside, or that men as a class are experiencing a cultural identity crisis that the last decade or so of the women's movement is in no small way responsible for.
Which guest?
@@jakebushey5333 Don't recall unfortunately. I think it was a short clip taken from a full interview though, so that might help find it.
@@XXXX-yc6wv she also can’t understand men’s problems because she’s a feminist and feminist are a huge part of why men are oppressed and she can’t be a feminist and realize some of the things that need to be fixed because they go against each other because feminism actively tries to oppress men. It’s like being a Nazi Germany and asking society what is wrong with the Jews and why are they struggling? They are actively oppressing men and then trying to figure out why the men are struggling
to take xx.s('s concerns plus verbal excretions) seriously does imply to dismiss those (and xx.s, ultimately) at all. ENOUGH. respect (y)ourselves, gents.
@@VaronPlateando I'm the one with verbal excretions? WTF does "xx.s('" mean?
When Christine says, 'Great (you older guys), now go and teach younger men how to be good men', I'm thinking, 'I did that by bringing up my sons to be good men and also showing my daughter what good men looked like. This is one reason why two parent families have value IMO.
I'm sixty- three, ex cop, current ju jitsu instructor, hill walker, cyclist, ex boxing coach, ex mountain bike guide. Currently working as a lifeguard and swimming teacher.
A friend did the lifeguard course with me and would be an equally great role model for kids. But in 1998 when he was in Spain, a woman in the UK accused him of rape. Once it was proven that he was not even in the country at the time, he was released without charge. It still shows up on his enhanced criminal disbarment check. And he cannot get a job with any kind of vulnerable group.
Such is justice in the UK.
I can't and will not be instructed, if not lectured, by a young lady with little life experience. I listened to the whole episode and have read her piece, I've heard and read similar before. I hope she does well and has a son.
All of us had that opportunity but out fathers were nothing but a child support payment she's an idiot
I know, does she realize one of the problems men face in society is decades of feminists socially conditioning society to view men as predators and men can’t mentor or be good role models without being viewed as predators sealing victims?! I’ve had the police called on me for spending time with my own kids in public unchaperoned by women (my wife)?!?! It’s great to claim men need to be good role models and mentors, but ignore why they can’t because you lack the self awareness to realize you’re part of the problem!
It comes of as her wanting whatever she wants from men, without actually acknowledging the problems men face or the part she plays in creating those problems!
what's interesting is that they found if there can't be a two parent household, specifically a father and mother, the next best thing is a single father. Those raised in homes by single mothers are at the greatest disadvantage. Perhaps if women weren't incentivized to break up families, maybe the children would have a fairer shot in life.
Men, in general, don’t complain, making their struggles invisible to most. As a wife and the mother of a sweet little boy, I thank you for bringing this topic forward.
Thank you for being a mom that takes interest in your sons well being
i dont wanna make this a back and forth gender thing but fyi men don't complain because when we do we're punished. not just by women but also not just by men either. And personally I'm not sure men not complaining needs to change. if anything everyone should keep complaining to a minimum.
Absolutely. But, to point that out is to admit that there is a LOT of complaining goings on and some of us have difficulty admitting any faults or taking accountability.
We do talk about our problems, just not to women because it is filed away as ammunition for future use, that and we are dismissed and listed too because we are “entitled” as men, therefore can’t possibly have problems, while at the same time dismissed as being misogynists and incel for daring to false claim we have problems to distract From important issues women face.
Men don't complain, b/c it makes no sense for a man to complain.
Women complain to get sympathy.
Women hate when men are trying to come up with the solutions.
Women don't need solutions when they complain. As anybody else they know what to do - eat healthy & exercise & have a healthy schedule & sleep...
It a well known fact in Therapy.
Women don't need solutions, they want sympathy.
*Women love to complain to other women.
Women tell eachother what they want to hear & lie to eachother...
When a man complains, we consider it a huge red flag.
He knows what to do like everybody else.
If he is not doing it, he is incapable man & can't have a family.
A man can't start complaining at war or work ...
Men can't complain even to their women & friends & children.
It doesn't solve the problems & only make people to think that you are an idiot.
*
And it's not my view.
Everyone knows it.
The majority of people believe that Feminists hate men.
Young men don't want sympathy...they want respect, purpose and the feeling of being needed/helpful and wanted you give a man that he'll give you all that he has and all that he is...just my take ✌️🖖🏴
Respect is earned, and purpose is something you need to find from within yourself. Being needed and wanted has to do with what you have to offer as a human being. So, it's all in your own hands, gentlemen. I wish men could realize how much power they actually have, and use it in a positive and productive manner. For some reason they feel women have to give that to them? Just my take.
@@joanofarcxxi of course you need to earn those things totally agree however I think there's a lack of encouragement in society with both men and women but seems like the guys ain't doin so good right now and that's not good for anyone...a bit more encouragement could go a long way
@@joanofarcxxithe problem is that boys aren't allowed to grow into quality men. The current culture puts down boys and promotes girls as.the special ones. It takes a long period of unlearning all that BS for a boy to truly become a man in adulthood.
@joanofarcxxi yes you're correct about respect.
Yet, purpose is extremely lacking in society. Men and women aren't encouraged to be a yin and yang helping one another dynamic.
It's all consumerism, work work work, and no emphasis on family the core of a healthy and functioning society.
That's what gets lost in all these discussions. We're social creatures and our society no longer encourages what gives us ultimate purpose. Men and women need each other, both are best together not one above or below the other
Men don't get respect often even when they do earn it. The amount of shit men get for just being men, eg. All the "men are violent", " men are abusive", and "all men are shit" or other of verbal or nonverbal varieties of that attitude are widespread.
I'm done listening to how men can be better until 50% of the conversation is how women need to be better too.
Spot on
They’re women they don’t need to change they’re perfect 👍
Nailed it
In the past, good women used to be our muse and inspiration. The reason why we want to conquer the world. Nowadays, I put in the bare minimum to get what I want. It works fine and I don't suffer delusions.
@@bazmilo-furball1they are the worst individuals in human history.
Your most hardcore Nazi or Taliban is a much higher quality individual than your average feminist today.
Over 4 billion babies dismembered, murdered in their own mothers wombs in the last 47 years alone.
What type of individual does this.
And what type of individuals call this evil a good thing?
Chew on that for a while,and that's women today.
Sadly this is democrat country, Obama's America,the Clintons America,the Biden crime families America, AOCs America, atheist Marxist democratic socialist America.
The democrat party did this to what used to be christian America in the 1960's.
In the 1960's the democrat party took GOD, prayer, the Ten Commandments and Bible study out of the American schools and the public square and replaced them with atheism as the official religion of the American schools and the public square.
This is the outcome.
Add on the marriage made in hell by women and the baby killing KKK slave democratic party in the 1970's when the democrat party gave America the genocide of babies in their own mothers wombs.
Roe vs Wade would not have been possible if the American schools still had GOD,prayer , the Ten Commandments and Bible study.
The democrat party took a page out of Nazi Germany on this one,took control of the education systems and brainwashed the next generations to be useful idiots.
"Why does it seem like only women are talking about this issue?"
"I... Think women... Are just better... At this sort of thing..."
Totally not because men who do get silenced or labeled as misogynists. Can't POSSIBLY be the case.
The reason why men can't talk about this is because they face cancel culture ,are getting silenced because society has been conditioned to be indifferent toward men !! Society looks at men as degenerates and easily disposable !! When women speak up on men's issues ,it is more acceptable and allowed because when it comes from a women it doesn't come across as toxic !! Men would be considered weak if they talk and a combination of the society at large and feminists men are not able talk about their ussues !!
It’s also who gets booked other than Galloway.
Evertime men express their issues ,they are shouted down ,canceled and being called grape apologists ,desperate men and misogynists!! We do need help from women because the feminists respect women more and think of them as more respectable !! However ,we need BOTH, male and females to talk about issues afflicting men !! Without men you don't get the whole story!! Mr.reeves was a feninist supporter for years and though he speaks about our cause ,he talks too much about the gains of women and girls ! It is good that they are doing well ,but when we are discussing men's issues ,talk about mens issues !! Mr.Galloway ,on the other hand ,is a man who never really understands the issues of boys and men !! If you heard him talk on the topic of male loneliness, you can clearly see him as an opportunity that is trying to sell his book and gain the women's sympathy!! He plays both sides of the coin !! Bring in Warren Farrell, he understands our situation better !!
Well, the attitude of woman as victims (in general, though of course some women are victimized) and that men are “toxic” and worthless (until the right combo of bad boy, Little League coach, and six-figure dude comes along) is itself, for sure, toxic.
Most of us have learned the hard way that very often when we open up to women and expose vulnerability we are judged and often mocked for it. So yeah we clam up with women and talk to other guys.
There is definitely a double standard in that men are expected to give their full support for women's causes. Just acting like you don't care is enough to get you labelled as a misogynist. However going the other way women are free to brush off men's issues. It's no surprise that so many men have become bitter by all the double standards that benefit women yet having to be continuously bombarded by messaging that society still doesn't do enough for women.
I'm not on the anti Barbie wagon, but I simply can't imagine a movie with the roles reversed seeing the light of day these days.
That's true, I've spoken to a few hardcore feminists who were shocked that I, as a man, was not interested into this kind of discourse. I'm all for an equal society and questioning gender roles but do I really have to get deep into the feminist literature to be doing that? Of course not, just like I don't devote my free time to environmentalism and still do my best to be a responsible consumer and believe that we should take better care of our planet. It's only a matter of finding the axis you want to sit on and then acting in consequence, obsessing over it and making it your ''life mission'' is often pointless unless you get educated and become seriously invested into it to bring some change through your hard work but most people are not doing that, they just get very emotionally invested into something and then feel helpless and resentful because those are tough problems that they can't even tackle. It's important to concentrate your time and efforts onto something where you can actually make a difference.
So yeah, I take my time to try and understand men's problems because I and the people around me are mostly lost men. I'm working on straightening myself out and then maybe I might go back to school someday because I'd like to be able to work with men who have debilitating porn addiction because this is where I was only a few years ago and there's little to no help for us people. There are dozens of organisms that help women, immigrants and LGBTQ people but good luck finding one that helps men other than an anger issues management therapy (which get funding because the victims are mostly women and children).
Yes because the progressive morality is based on using your morals against you to get you to 'do the right thing', but when they are asked to do the right thing, they simply ignore it because that is not THEIR moral view.
"Your moral code demands that you treat me well, therefore you must, but my moral code does not demand that I treat you fairly, therefore, I won't."
@@montgomeryscot6623 the Barbie movie was the roles reversed. It’s a reflection of reality but much worse. Did you watch it? It couldn’t of been more clear. Also movies throughout history have been the roles reversed as well
Exactly
She's so close to understanding, and yet everything she proposes comes from the standard playbook. More male nurses isn't going to fix the problem.
As a woman I don't think I'd like a man caring for me when I was ill
Literally, what will? Men need drive and purpose . Whose going to hand it to them? I have no idea. They used to have purpose by default and now they have to actually go and find it. No one can do it for them. I think. What are we missing?
@@V.Hansen. In my view men need good women to form long term relationships with. Nothing motivates a man like a woman worth his effort. Beyond that, I'd say men need a commitment to some moral vision bigger than themselves - maybe a country or a religion, or a secular replacement for a religion if that's not your cup of tea.
It's a tall order.
@@grannyannie2948 We're not going to change society to help men, so don't worry about being cared for by a man. Higher chance of dying from one's gunshot wound because he's so desperate for some kind of attention and feeling of control over his life that he starts seeing every person as an enemy and decides to shoot up a public space. Violent outbursts will continue to become more and more common as there are more and more men feeling like they have nothing to lose. Good luck out there.
@@asparrow9876 so what’s your solution? What’s the answer if it’s so obvious that women are useless idiots for not knowing?
I was giving a co-worker a ride and she literally came up with a reason to create conflict between us I just stared at her and didn't say a word and then she said yeah I guess I try and push that feminist thing too much ... like yeah I'm doing you a favor and I get called a bastard it's , it's crazy just because I was born a dude if thats not discrimination I don't know what is
You gave a female co-worker a ride? Are you trying to get fired or imprisoned?
My first thought too.
@@LenAnderson856pretty clear they are not “obsessed with you”, but rather fed up with you because of your attitudes, and you really can’t blame them after decades of mistreatment by feminists, so get over yourself…
@@LenAnderson856 no they didn’t, pure imagination, get over yourself…
@@LenAnderson856 start by being honest and setting aside your imagination, but then you wouldn’t have a obvious fantastical story to share like you have.
I’m glad she cares but I couldn’t finish this episode. Dismissing Jordan Peterson takes more than “off the rails” and “attention seeking” I just can’t handle. That guy changed men’s lives and knows the literature. You don’t have to agree with him, but it’s hugely unreasonable that a hand wave can dismiss him and the good he’s done. She’s found the problem, but it doesn’t feel like she understands men enough to be a part of the solution.
Thanks, you just saved me about an hour and 10 minutes of time.
I’ll stop watching now knowing this.
I sincerely appreciate your comment.
She started that sentence with saying she like him at first and only in the last couple of years has she found him a little off the rails which is a sentiment I've heard echoed several times. I'm a huge fan of Peterson and even I find his positions a little hard to take at times. That doesn't mean this writer doesn't care. I mean she wrote a hugely researched piece with the intention of placing more of a light on the problems faced by men. So what if she doesn't like one of your heroes? Does that dismiss her overall ethos within this conversation? If I used your line of logic I could never listen to anyone since we all hold perspectives that are disagreeable to others.
@@dahliaherrod4301 and I started my comment with “I’m glad she cares” and gave this episode about 30+ minutes and skipped ahead to see if she had anything valuable as a solution and she just doesn’t have much to offer.
My point however is regardless of how you feel about Jordan’s views on other issues he’s an accredited psychologist and teacher. He’s not some guy just making stuff up. So to dismiss his message and say he’s just some right wing guy (he’s a classical liberal) is a pretty ignorant way to characterize things. My issue isn’t that she disagrees with a man I like. It’s because he is right and she’s implying he’s not. Jordan solved the problem we know what the answer is already and people want to ignore it.
I gave it a chance I don’t respect people who try to discredit people instead of ideas.
@@TylerjWebb Well firstly, Chris pretty explicitly stated he brought her on because she's a black woman who supports the need to highlight men's' problem within her article. She's a writer by trade. She wasn't there to offer solutions. Second of all, I don't like that she dismissed his work either, but she effectively summed up his solution in the last 15 minutes of the interview that you didn't watch where she advocated for personal responsibility.
I think it's a mistake to dismiss people because they don't like the same people you do. Even Jordan advocates in 12 Rules for Life to listen to those you hate because they probably know something you don't. If at the end of all that you still took nothing from someone like her, get mad at Chris for bringing her on.
@@dahliaherrod4301 I’m not mad I’m just not interested in another 30 minutes. I said multiple times I’m glad you care and you are misrepresenting what I’m saying and that’s where I draw the line. If someone made a really compelling case for the second half I’d listen, but that hasn’t happened.
I’m not saying she should stop. I’m not calling for her to be silenced, I’m just not here for this one. Maybe she will do something in the future that I will engage with more who knows I don’t rule it out. But for now, no thanks. She’s probably not going to read my comment and that fine I’m not hurt by it. And if she does I hope she takes the positives away instead of focusing on the fact that it didn’t do it for me.
This also wasn’t my only issue, just the last straw for my interest.
That’s all for this thread for me. Hope you have a great week.
Interesting discussion…. wasn’t going to comment on this one, as there was simply too many things. God bless her for attempting the dialogue, however even with her apparent openness, the blindness for why men are checking out is deafening. Thank you for commenting on the fatherlessness issue. It is, imo, one of the biggest issues at play on this topic. Modern society, family law, feminism has obliterated fatherhood.
Well, yeah, it's a problem when men are failing because of how their failures might negatively affect some women's expectations
Men obliterated fatherhood. Men weren’t there throughout History. They didn’t even know where their kids went to school
@@beowulf_of_wall_st Single, married, or widowed mothers, all motherhood is unassailable and sanctified as the most difficult job
I fully agree mate. She was kinda nudging in the right direction, and I really did enjoy most of what she said. But it was a slight disappointment to hear that the solution of one the biggest societal elephants in the room was a message akin to “men, do better”, rather than, hey, there may be systemic shite at play preventing fathers from being there for their kids.
@@annarboriter Married stay at home mothers are villianised by feminists in modern society despite performing the most important role in society and, based on statistics at least, doing it the best of anyone.
Mothers still need a victimhood status for feminist support.
I've thought a lot about what male role models we have in the public sphere. There is one man that comes to mind for me, who and he is not typically associated with men's causes. I think that Keanu Reaves is an excellent role model, he has this inspiring blend of wholesome traits. He seems to have a strong sense of what he values and he sticks to them, along with a deep sense of kindness and authenticity that lacks arrogance.
High levels of competence are often interpreted as arrogance. Being disagreeable and standing up to your beliefs, values, and boundaries is what men do, and that can also come of as "arrogant" because women avoid conflict. Men can and will discuss facts and the nature of reality aggressively, and tone policing doesn't suit those discourses. Men have to earn their egos through struggle and by overcoming challenges. Reeves is ok but he's also soft and not rugged. I don't know any man who would like to model himself after him - outside John Wick.
I'd really urge as many men as possible to form groups with your closest mates at work, or through sports, or some other mutual endeavour, and enjoy time together exclusively without women and doing activities together. I have joined a number of paternities over the last couple of years, and it's changed my mental health significantly.
Amen 🙏 we are NOT built to be around these creatures 24/7 😂❤
Yes! I’d like to back this comment as a witness of the positive effect of forming groups of dudes.
My boyfriend use to have only a few friends he’d hang out with sporadically and spend a lot of his free time alone or with me.
He has significantly changed, for the better, since being part of a group of men who do most of their activities amongst all-men. He’s become more ambitious, happier, more playful but also more mature. All positives!
Men need to surround themselves with other good men (and not just in their workspace).
I totally agree. Unfortunately in my little nook of this planet, many men only groups were infiltrated by a small cohort of women who had no interest in the group itself, they just couldn't handle men having a space. Some even went to court. Anyway, your point is spot on.
I would try that, but I never fit in anywhere.
I don't know where you live but I've never seen a male only group except for F-boys that are going to the club.
I’m 46 and still feel I don’t know my place in the world as a man. It’s been a reoccurring theme through life and only feels deeper the older I get.
Really great to hear these conversations about men being brought out more.
don't worry bro it will all be over soon
@@SpaceExplorerHahaha, honestly though, what makes you so sure?
Did you grow up in a fatherless home I wonder.
@brianmeen2158 assuming providing and protecting appeal to you
Just have fun, live a moral live, a moral life is a happy life, cut everything out that is not fun. Meat is more fun than candy btw. Give a f about woman if they are not fun
Men are just now starting to understand how you will be treated in divorce court. The judge just transfers the house, land, children , furniture, cars to her. They dont care about her bad behaviors. Then he has no rights to his childrens life. He has no rights for visitation. He owes her for another 18 years.
Ok bud… gross generalizations aren’t helpful. Share examples, but broad brushing this is lazy.
@@TheYaegerjeusmcMale victims of statutory rape still have to child support to thier convicted Female rapist once they turn 18 with back pay. While convicted male rapists are put in prison. If you do not think the legal system is biased you're blind.
@@TheYaegerjeusmcMale victims of statutory rape still have to child support to their convicted Female rapist once they turn 18 with back pay. While convicted male rapists are put in prison. If you do not think the legal system is biased against men you're blind.
@@TheYaegerjeusmc I hope she sees this. Generalisations aren't invalid just because not exactly every man is drawn and quartered by women and womens real husband, the State™.
Chris, I can't get enough of these mature and insightful podcasts on today's masculinity. Keep up the great work dude.
@@asparrow9876
Right?!!!!!!
@@asparrow9876
All I keep picturing, is circle jerks with a ton of narcissist tears.
A bit strange the way she seems to see JBP Ali G. as living in the same box and men's brains.. I see the two as totally different personalities, where I would love to work with/befriend one, and not let the other close to anything, that I cared about.
A myth is that women in the past were dainty flowers sitting at home. They were working fields, delivering babies, working in factories , scrubbing floors , caring for the elderly/ which is often heavy manual labor … should we be appreciative - respectful of men and all they do in society ? Yes 100% ❤
Yes, during WWI, while the men were overseas, women were back home felling trees, shoveling coal, working with poisons in munitions factories, building planes and guns, being police officers and jailors. That is why women got the vote in 1920. After they had taken over the grunt work and skilled labor, it was hard to convince women that they were too daisy-like and fragile to cast a ballot. A generation of young men had come back from Europe with modern eyes too. They had faced death and they were open to change because they had seen other cultures. I am in my 6th decade of life and so grew up in a more traditional time. The "no fault divorce" had just arrived. There was one female news anchor and then Maggy Thatcher came along. I really wouldn't have known about the problems of modern men without watching Chris' show. I don't know if older people are really aware of the trends.
@@cosmicartsastrologicalserv242 The no fault divorce is terrible thing.
@@divisadero8859 The beginning of the end.
@@cosmicartsastrologicalserv242 Yes, one of many factors that are pulling society down.
researchers consistently fail to address the magnitude of this issue.
People ultimately need love and validation. When a man doesn't matter to a woman, when she doesn't gaze at him with a loving smile, tell him she wants him/needs him, that he matters to her.
A lot of guys have never had that.
This will cause disillusionment/isolation/soul sadness and mental health issues in men. No amount of material things, por* will be able to replace that.
The problem in the west is 2 fold. Incels can't get a woman and the ones that do get one, end up in divorce/breaking up or being cheated on and losing more than the lady. So they swear off relationships and end up lonely all the same. (Mgtow)
Both have the effect of creating lonely, angry, atomised ppl and broken society with plummeting birth rates. And can spell the end of that society.
What are we seeing in the west now?
Falling sperm counts, falling testosterone levels, births, marriage, anomie and a rapidly ageing society, with catastrophic debt levels.
White ppl used to have close family bonds but now they no longer keep ties with family and send old ppl to homes.
Jobs for life are a thing of the past, from where they used to form friends.
White ppl lost their matchmaking culture and used to marry form within their own tried and tested social circle.
With all that now gone, internet dating and cold approaching/PUA random women that u know nothing about is the way. Which can be dehumanising and toxic.
Peace
"Women bond face to face. Men bond shoulder to shoulder." Exactly.
I suddenly realized that the term "toxic masculinity" requires 2 additional words: toxic shaming of masculinity.
Too many women respond to being treated like shit, then wonder why they are in bad relationships.
Its only toxic because men have strengths that women can’t attain.
Toxic masculinity is a clinical term that only applies to a very small subset of toxic men (it came out from studying violent incarcerated men, and from having been to prison, I can tell you that these men exist) but popular media has mistakenly (but willingly) attributed it to all of masculinity and turned it into something else completely, thus poisoning the discussion around masculinity. I really hope that this term can finally fall into the same category as mansplaining and manspreading and that we'll finally stop talking about it.
@@nackedgrils9302 Those men exist but there behavior has nothing at all to do with masculinity, hence the problem. There is no evidence that those criminals are that way because of any form of masculinity. Clinically homosexuality use to be considered a mental illness, but nowadays we know better. The clinicians have a lot of blood on there hands, its there fault that this term is used like that.
There are arseholes everywhere, it's not down to what you have in your pants. My ex called my 14 year old son toxic, without even comprehending how much of a horrible cunt that makes her.
Chris and Christine spoke at length about the necessity of mentors and role models; I wonder if there's been any look into the elimination of male-specific spaces and the effect upon this? One example that made the rounds in the media awhile ago was the Boy Scouts of America opening their program to girls as well. The organization was originally founded as a way to socialize boys with each other while providing mentorship from men in the areas of life skills and leadership. Personal opinion, I've always felt that adding the social dynamic of women being present completely changes the experience, particularly when it comes to socialization.
It very much seems to me there are no men's only spaces anymore. Where would a young man go these days to find a mentor, unless they already had a personal connection with one?
Well stated. Great points.
Feminists hate male spaces and have actively sought to destroy them for years.
Very well said. Men only spaces are considered troublesome and sexist, but women only isn't. I learned so much being allowed to have male spaces as a young man.
Boy scouts is a perfect example. I loved it. Now I would never recommend it. Crazy part? Girl scouts already existed. They had to destroy the boy's space anyway.
BOYS GO TO THE STREETS AND FIND MENTORS, WHICH IS A WHOLE OTHER PROBLEM
Boy Scouts didn’t allow girls in, they were FORCED to take in girls as well, that’s part of the problem, it happened in Canada in the late 80’s-early 90’s, that’s when my parents left scouting and pulled me and my brother out of the program, it has become just another girls club, from leadership down that occasionally let’s subjugated boys in…
I absolutely love how she says men need to be better, totally misses the point that single mothers are tragic failure especially when raising boys. Also, neither person points out that masculine traits developed will be those preferred by women. What it means to be a man will be a person who successfully reproduces.
Indeed. A mostly useless, blue pilled discussion.
Single moms are tragic failures. I see.....wonder why they where/are single?
Those were my thoughts too.
Standard modern feminist, men's problems are men's to solve and wholly under their control. Women's problems are societies problems and it's up to men to fix it for them
Exactly !
In 2005, i was in my mid 20s and was doing a leadership course for work. One of the things i wrote for myself as a simple goal was to "be a man now" as i was still a man-child, bit of a victim, avoiding responsibility etc. When i said this to the group, the first reaction was a nasty "What does that mean?" from one of the women. I actually had to defend it with a reasoned response, which now i look back, it was just a toxic and undermining experience. That's almost 20 years ago
how dare you! what a misogynistic wish. /s
Question: how is that nasty? Unless the tone of it was uncalled for. As a woman, if a 20-something grown man wrote “be a man now” as a goal, I’d ask the same question as it’s unclear to me what it means.
Even as a young man I never was a victim,thought of myself as a victim, or avoided responsibility, I worked hard tried to make myself useful and helpful, let alone stand up and tell the world I had to be better, (and yes I was immature back in my teens) but I instinctively knew I had to make myself useful. Mayb it’s the office setting you were in, (I’m in construction going on 37years) but I’ve never had to say sorry for being a man, or had to say I’m a man child…….
@phreaquetalk To be a man is to realize that one only has their parents at the bare minimum and maximum extended family that care about them. Society as a whole could careless if a man is homeless or in trouble; it is their responsibility to improve their situation regardless of how feasible that is, or how impossible. And so, unbecoming a victim is important to become a man, as no one cares for a man outside of one own family. As one family does not live forever, a one needs to learn how to become independent and semi-self-sufficient; self-regulating emotions and self-serving needs and wants.
To become a mature man, one realizes that violence towards others should be restraint, and that it should be used sparsely. Massive shows of forces, and impulsive use of violence to get one way is the sign of immaturity. Respect is used through work, experience and amiable behavior; not through the childish tantrum of a man-child or the feminist scream of victimhood.
A mature man also realizes kindness is the greater good to restraint violence, and that they can attract other more effectively to them through kindness. Human kindness is a greater good, it is the only thing that can effectively reduce human suffering. Only through kind acts can human genuinely help one another.
Due to the role men play in human society; men bare both the suffering posed by existence itself and by the burdens of society; first to be throw into wars, first to be selected for manual labor, first to be denied medical care and kindness.
Men just like woman require kindness to reduce their mortal suffering; but yet men are the most commonly denied. And so, to be a man it means to suffer in silence. To hope one day that someone as enough to replicate the kindness that a man can experience from their of family.
@@barrydaemi6287 I don’t know where u get the idea that woman don’t experience all these things. To be a woman is to experience exactly the same. Nobody cares about woman any more than anyone cares about anyone. Yes woman get sexual attention but that means nothing.
Men are expected to “marry down” , but women are discouraged to do so.
Men are disposable. We always will be. Just live your life and set hard boundaries for those you let into your life.
Virtually always true... until you get over 60 when we start increase in rarity value. I'm being targetted by a Doctor - way above my pay grade tho I'm not that bad. She's great so I think I'll ask her out. Women still won't do the asking. Why? Being rejected? Well its not great but keep it affable and low key ... " Hi my friend is ill and I've got a spare ticket for" This appeals to a man's gallantry and not too direct. "I'm going to town tomorrow but ... I don't know ... its a bit of a drive/ I've got to pick up a ...?/ its not a great part of town.
Men are not “expected” to marry down. Men simply do not care about social status and provider-ship of their wife. That’s simple biology.
Men get to experience joy because we're disposable.
Women get to feel anxiety because they're (reproductively) indispensable.
Forced to choose, I'd take the former, every time.
Given the fact that men do all the important stuff around the world and there are literally billions of people with overpopulation being a huge issue:
It is now the other way around.
I'll actually be "marrying down" as a woman, but I see how good of a househusband my fiance will make and a good father to our future children. So I don't feel at all like I'm losing out, but gaining as someone who's always been more career oriented.
Would love to see Chris sit down and talk to any of these men that have checked out of society, I want to hear what these men have to say, usually I get more insight from the comment section of these types of videos than I do from so called experts studying them, the men are telling you whats really going on, it's all out in the open. I've come to the conclusion that no one that needs to listen to them actually cares what they have to say.
He could go to any of the MGTOW channels as that is their thing.
Yeah, it's really weird. If I, as a guy, invited over a young woman to discuss what life is like for older women, then everyone would shout that I should be inviting an older woman and hearing her perspective.
But when it's men checking out of society, no one even reads their posts, let alone invite them onto the show.
@@lightworker2956How do you know that no one is reading their posts?
@@dumfriesspearhead7398 Obviously some people are reading the posts of those guys, but I don't get the feeling that Chris himself is, based on some comments he's made in some of his videos. I know that's vague and I could be wrong, just my impression.
@@lightworker2956 My guess it's all about notoriety of the guest speaker, in order to garner more clicks, Chris and everyone else who tries to speak on men's behalf is incentivized to bring on people who are well known and in the know, rather than speak directly to the people hes trying to understand.
"Keep your progressive credentials upfront Christine" pretty well sums this podcast up.
😂😂😂
There's a definite feeling of this. More than a few few blood boiling moments. I just finished Chris' podcast with George TheTinMen, and while he's a Labour supporter, and had lefty points, he parked them at the door, and acknowledged them where he thought they might be of some utility, not just to say them. Some of the things this lady says are made of straw and it rankles.
progressivism is like a wolf dressing as a shepherd and herding the sheep toward a cliff; for those who can't read between the lines, the devil is laughing it up as part of society abandons God then wonders why the same society is crumbling around them because there's no solid foundation
Hard to listen to. I feel she is a bit too cringey and predictable in how she discusses both men and women.
Is that not the point? The podcast format is more about bringing different viewpoints to the table and dissecting it, not to teach the guest anything
The core problem is not that there is no alternative vision for male role model, but that women's revealed preference is that they do not want a romantic relationship with that "ideal" male role that society is pushing.
Dude ive been thinking this throughout this time. They are just rejecting everything. They actually dont want to discuss new gender norms nor have an answer for men. At this point, they have gone aggro on men.
Yuuuuppp. They raise boys to be men they despise, and then blame men. They hate their own femininity, and then blame men. They self-victimize themselves, feed themselves victim narratives, and then blame men.
This conversation is 10 years too late, men are checking out, and I dont think they are coming back.
men already checked out a long time ago. Men checked out already such a long time ago that young men have to go on the internet to find out what it means to be a man.
It all comes down to that men have no rights, woman select through sex, men through resources.
Mens money is being taken away through force through inflatoin, taxes, child support. Money is a mans selection, you might smash that one girl, but not gonna spend any money on her. But in our society if its your kid, doesnt even have to be biological, automatically through marriage (marriage has always existed to scam men) you as a man have to pay for it, you are not allowed to exercise your biological natural selection which is saying no to paying.
Checking out of what? Life?
We're welcome to "checkout" all we want - but, last time I checked, the Earth is still spinning...
@@MH3GL last time I checked birthrate everywhere is below 2, most people are overweight and we are on the verge of nuclear war, but idk, maybe we dont live on the same Earth, pretty sure Earth will do fine without humans, the question is is it still good for us
@@l.3626 the species is as resilient as any, we as a species will not get eliminated like your convenient thought suggests, rather, only MOST of us will be removed. the ones that remain will more likely return to a rapacious treatment of resources. you should really think these things through a little. we really do own the place, whether that's a comfortable thought or not.
No were not
It’s surprising to actually see an example of a productive conversation on such a complex and nuanced topic. I’m very grateful to both of you for your thoughtfulness!
@@croissants1280 Sooooo why are you watching then?
@@croissants1280 You would never see Chris face a major challenge...He stays in the safe zone...He is a coward.....
What I would love to see is a conversation between Christine and the Tinman
I saw some very obvious contradictions - the guest pointed out the role of absent fathers and the detrimental effect it has on kids. BUT had previously said that it was fine for a 2 women in a relationship to raise kids. Now Im seeing a clear contradiction and I wonder fine for who the parents or the Kids? Also there is a credible pointing out of absent fathers but as pointed out by the Timman we have suffered 30 plus years of a court system that has prevented good fathers seeing their kids. The narrative was "You don't need a man to bring up Kids" well to some extent we are reaping the implications of Bro-science being implemented in law
@@boybath Its a consistent pattern with Chris his subtle bias against men and his guests..Its become routine...
@@joe-k6w4e The way conversations happen matters. Everything is not a battle. It's an exchange. Sides incrementally show a little vulnerability, show they are willing to listen to a different perspective. That is *how* progress happens through discussion. It is not always just how to get someone to some predetermined end goal. So even a conversation like this is significant because you are seeing someone coming from a 3rd wave feminist education and mindset demonstrating open-mindedness and good faith (which breaks from tradition) and Chris is receptive to that. He wants to understand the core concern coming from that side. He wants to find good role models for men because he also cares about them. There's nothing weak or wrong about that. It's more disciplined and higher emotional IQ. People who are more steeped in the feminist side of things also open up gradually when it is modeled for them. Maybe we'll find out what points are valid in their criticism. This is the type of conversation my wife would actually listen to because she would feel it was an honest conversation.
You cannot just completely reject what you see as the opposition. Do you think you are a better person than him? Who have you influenced? What have you accomplished? It's easy for an internet rando to criticize. His channel is successful because he is more open and making space for a more nuanced, neutral perspective.
They want men to be traditional while they are going wild in the streets.
From the video description: "But it begs the question of why it's come down to a woman to raise the topic of men's issues."
Really simple: because rich / successful men aren't complaining about men's issues. Rich / successful men are having a blast. And no one cares about or listens to struggling men.
Men don't care about the struggle of men
@@wyleecoyotee4252 I don't think that's true at all. What world are you living in?
@@wyleecoyotee4252No one cares about the struggles of men. Both men and women are gynocentric.
The reason for women talking about male issues is because whenever men have tried to speak out ,they are treated with disrespect called misogynist and get canceled all the time !! That is we need female allies !! They will be heard a little more and not canceled as much !! The feminists have done a good job of preventing men from being heard !! That's why we need good female allies that can make a difference and loosen the stranglehold that feminists have on social media!!
And what happens when other men complain about this? They're mocked or hated.
Men are not lost. They’re opting out.
@@brianmeen2158 maybe ask yourself why are you angry at what other men choose to do?
@@brianmeen2158 What would we work for? Also, we would we leave the social debates and politics completely to women? While working hard... Are you okay? Bumped your head?
They just want us back on the plantation.
No.....there are being sent thier own way
@@kamrudkd No. This is just a lame deflection. Enjoy working and paying for everything on your own, at some point you will understand.
She looks so happy when she says "it took *someone like me* to write this". Too happy
Event if there are 1,000,000,000 feminists on this planet, there's still really only 1 of them at the end of the day.
What a crippled and constipated way to exist.
She got attention. That's basically currency.
I have 14 year old son and I worry. The lack of good role models, the way school don’t understand boys, and even discourages them , video games , I am very worried.
Masculine boys are treated as defective girls in schools now. Such an unforgivable shame that boys have to feel that their sex is considered a problem in the world 😭
Try getting him into martial arts or some sport where he can bond with other boys and hopefully have a good male role model.
Stop worrying and do you job; be a good mother.
Where is his father? Maybe you eliminate his father from your boys life. His role model supposed to be his father so bring him back. Dont just take child support money for yourself.
Video games are not inherently bad, just try to regulate the amount of time spent on them. To avoid gaming addiction. Make sure he gets exercise, either in a sport or martial art. Or just regular trips to the gym.
education is absolutely seeped in man-bashing
Clearly Andrew Tate has made feminists stop and think...hey if we keep running programs in schools to call boys toxic and potential rapists, then maybe the boys will stop listening to us.
Andrew Tate has been a wake up for the toxic messages feminists have been putting out
Education, media, the court system. Open and nonstop misandry.
@@maxn.7234 It's intentional. Frankfurt school stuff.
@@chinchilla415Destruction of the nuclear family.
Biology itself is misandrist. We are descended from twice as many women as men, meaning to pass down his genes a man had to impress a woman, where as to pass down her genes a woman just had to exist.
I would love to hear her thought process when she hits 60. I’m a spiritual crone at 70. Raised 5 children. Survived M1 cancer. Listening to this is like listening to a child.🙏
She hasn’t “put any numbers up on the board”.
My thoughts exactly.
I think "thought process" is a very generous way pf phrasing it
And you haven't grown up in the modern world. The world you grew up in is totally different, and honestly not very relevant anymorr
People have been talking about this for decades. That people are "finally comfortable enough" says it all about how complex an issue this is, and why these issues don't get the attention they warrant. And it's why I can't give her that much credit. She stands on the shoulders of giants; to use an (maybe unfair) analogy.
Its never been a worse time to grow up male. 😅 Ive spent the last 15 years “fixing” myself only to find myself on a conveyor belt with carrot and stick. Even the best most positive people eventually grow dark and cold from this.
I say this as someone who grew up fat and geeky and turned chad. Still not great. 😂🎉
Same.
I understand what youre saying but Id rather be alive today then being drafted and sent to France on the front lines of WWII like my grandfather. While living as a Black man facing jim crow laws, segregation and racism…ijs
@@brianmeen2158Comparing only objectively is the problem. Materialistically 2023 is better, safer, more comfortable, but I don't life for safety and I don't find meaning in comfort. I want to do _something_ and be well known and respected in my community. However even if I do well in my community right now I will still have to hear all the messages of how men are shit, abusive, toxic, violent, oppressive, and in other ways horrible. When I am seen that way simply for being a man I simply cannot find the will inside to work for this.
That's why "objective" comparisons are simply not in any way useful here, because the problem of being a man today has nothing to do with material or objective and everything to do with the social. Unless you compare the social environments for men in 2023 and back then you simply cannot make a useful observation.
@@o.x.pI hear you about the 1950s. Funny the problems with society today were created by the children of those who fought in WW 2
@@hungrymusicwolf seems like you need the validation and praise of others. Which is weird. And ppl are calling out bad behaviour from men as they should be doing. Men have gotten away with everything and it can stop now
The reassuring aspect is that this is 100% unsustainable- so it will change even if it means the fall of society in the process
Exactly. Feminism and the insatiable female is not sustainable. Soon as any major event happens its right back to natural order which is full blown unapologetic patriarchy.
I’ve come to the understanding that I won’t allow myself to be distracted debating with women about gender roles. Nowadays I’m too busy to be in a competitive relationship.
@@brianmeen2158it's because people like Christina, Chris and Richard Reeves are tone deaf.
The voices are softer but the message is the same "men are the problem, fix yourselves".
After reading Christine's article... aren't women also lost? Generations of women fought for being seen/equality and they had their goals set for having a family and kids and a good life. Now everything was accomplished in the fight for being equal decades ago. Now they are going wild. Many women are a stray and become irresponsible, out of touch with their femininity and foremost with any accountability in life. They are teached that they can do no wrong and they don't need to change anything about themselves but the world has to change.
With the ongoing promiscuity and sites like OF, many women removed themselves from the dating market. They are no longer a goal for men to have a family with. Many aren't worth the time and effort.
Do you need to ask even? Both sexes are so dependent on each other that if one goes to hell, the other will follow. Our societies degrade so much that we do not even see anymore how rotten things are. Listen to anyone talking about how life was in 1930-60 and compare it to now.
Reading her article just today, I agree. Some of her observations are on point, and her solution is still the very exact thing that created this issue, womanism. She effectively sees _some_ of the problem, and absolutely not the rest of the problem. It's a literal blind spot to her. What's worse, is the majority of the comments under her article… deplorable. It's an army of misandrists, essentially laughing at the issue. I read that while thinking in my head "don't you women understand that this is how you are going to go backwards ? Nevermind solving the issue, but laughing at it as if it's deserved, this is how you're going to lose some of the rights you have acquired !".
The more things like this get explored and talked about, the more I'm getting convinced that _womanism in its entirety_ was a mistake, even the basic premise for its existence. It's like the more we give women, the more disgusting things get, how are they managing that ?
@@lonewaer Why are you calling it womanism btw?
There is nothing feminine about that movement.
I think its because now that they have freedom and legal equality they realized that no matter how legally equal they are they will never be equal to men on their own. Not physically, not economically, and not socially. And that their entire world and even their equality was created by and handed to them by men. And that only happened because men were too exhausted from fighting the two largest wars the world has ever seen to keep on like they were doing. It's the same as a spoiled rich kid being handed the family fortune and business, they act out and are mentally broken because they don't have to work for anything and were handed an empire. Got a college degree? Special scholarships and initiatives to get more female students. Got that nice stem job after graduating? Because of DEI and female empowerment initiatives. Just replace DEI and empowerment initiatives with daddy's money and connections and you've got it. That's why modern feminist are so allergic to responsibility, they've been handed everything and constantly told that they deserve the world because they are special just like a spoiled rich kid.
I started regularly going into pubs when I was twenty. In pubs you would meet very old men, old men, middle-aged men etc.
Through talking to men across the social spectrum, with different politics, earnings, marital status, ad infinitum. It broadens one's ability to act in society.
I once saw a man in his sixties brow-beat a young thug in his twenties who was looking for trouble without leaving his bar-stool. It was an excellent example of non-verbal communication, of projecting masculinity in a positive way, avoiding violence and bullying.
Now we have few proper pubs where generally men socialise.
If you're married and thirty-five having marital problems, most won't look for help, but in a traditional pub, the old guys would have been there and done it, advice would flow, stress was reduced, marriages saved. We've lost that.
Make Pubs great again!! I guess that would mean making it men's only or by invitation, there has got to be a way to keep women quiet on the subject and keep them out. Like a pub that always changes its address on each night of the week🤔🤔 Let's face it tho...women will find a way to destroy it, we all know women can't stand seeing men congregate.
yes because your husband returning home drunk surely truly saves marriages
I don't go out and participate in pub culture primarily because it's too damn expensive nowadays. Can't afford the time and money doing that in Canada.
The “We live in a society” Internet meme aged like fine wine.
Our society is based on what marketing groups thought would sell and trend. Not what's good for society. And the collapse of digital media and Hollywood Is the result
Send a link?
@@tpl2023Watch Sandman2 and you’ll see all the most troubling memes that you’ll ever want to see. The “Memes of the Week” are incredibly entertaining
Women talking about "fixing" men really means, "how can men change to help benefit me more"
At least it might have an invisible hand effect
they really dont care about men, they only care that they dont get anything from them anymore.
The most terrible people in todays societies are actually woman, Im not saying they are all not moral, but many and woman dont have any consequences for it, you can kill your child and its okay. You can leave your man for a new one and still demand money from him.
INSANE
The best part of this interview was learning that you did Romance novel covers lol. Joking aside it was very good interview. Thank you for your content.
The two most popular posters about feminism in 60s Berkeley were, “Women Hold Up Half the Sky” and “A Woman needs a Man like a Fish Needs a Bicycle”.
Guess which attitude won out.
Wow I feel so much better now, I am glad that lessons learned and only my generation (may be next too) will be sacrifised for this beautifull social experiment.
I really want to make sense of what you are saying, will you please apply some punctuation and a few more words so that I can better understand you?
@@tylermabry6881 I am not native speaker, sorry pal
Not just generations - the whole civilization.
Im 30, and it feels like the position society wants me to have, is outside of society. Like society just wants me gone from society? I don't know if other guys feel that way.
Take your space, carve out your kingdom, set boundaries, and fight to get what _you_ want.
I think you missed a very important point to respond to at around the 15 minute mark. Christine says a good man should figure out what his "duty and responsibilities are", to which someone should point out that feminism only ever talks about duty and responsibility with relation to men. In fact, everyone usually frames these duties and responsibilities as what men should do *for women*. Meanwhile feminism is very hands off when it comes to saying anything about any duty or responsibility that women should have, and even less so about any duty or responsibility that women should have toward men.
Exactly, it has always been the same, men are told to account for obligations and duties while women are given leg ups and passes for everything. You want sexual relations to become normal? instill obligations and duties that is normative to the female sex and the men will follow as they often do when they see a fair shake. Right now, young men are seeing nothing worthwhile beyond sex when interacting with a woman because women offer nothing but sex, and you can chock this up to alot of factors present in modernity, for instance feminism is a big reason as to why sexual relations are in such a horrid state atm, another one is the digitization of relations, another one is the existence of items like the pill.
A man desires their own progeny, a loyal wife, and a stable home, a woman desires their own progeny, a dependable husband, and a stable home, to get these items there are behaviors and archetypes that the majority ought to follow and unfortunately for leftists, the easiest and the most effective way to structure a complementary system between the sexes falls in line with the traditional archetypes of a homely woman and a dependable man
Feminism, from Betty Friedan to Bell Hooks, is mixed up with a muddled idea that women are free when they serve their employers but slaves when they help their husbands.
@plantbased9502Ya, NO. That’s not what he meant
@@kwazooplayingguardsman5615VERY well said and much appreciated. You nailed it
Alhumdulliah. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the UK, Europe, the USA, and the whole world.
So they must be getting married and having kids and families.
We follow the guidance of God and it clearly defines what to do and what not. And the appropriate dynamics between the men and women that lead to a lasting, fruitful relationship.
Oh, and it also tells us what a woman is!
Peace
Women are given privilege in our society to do better, full stop. That's why women are better in all those metrics right now. They're not made of magic and superhuman. They're not better people. @plantbased9502
I'm a 40 year old guy. Considered myself a feminist for roughly 20 years. Knew and proliferated all the talking points before they were fashionable as they are on the internet today. Am thoroughly leftist. Closest label for my politics is probably anarcho-communist. I'm also fine with androgyny. I frankly like the "good person" model of things, and have never cared in the slightest as to whether anything about me is seen as masculine or feminine. I played football for 6 years and wrestled for 4. But also dyed my hair blue and grew it down to the middle of my back (not at the same time) in my late teens/early 20's, regularly got addressed as a woman in public, and didn't care. Thought it was funny.
But I am thoroughly checked out from society and dating, and divorced from the left at this point. A process that started somewhere around 2016. And I don't identify with most of what's talked about here.
What it is for me, is the left's aggressive opposition to empathy or acknowledgement for the fact that women can be abusive to men. That the side of politics I used to associate with offers absolutely zero standards of behavior for women in their model of society, yet demands absurdly high standards of men. Requires absurdly high standards of evidence in order to accept any allegation of a woman mistreating a man, but often no evidence whatsoever to accept allegations of a man abusing a woman. Will treat anyone who describes themselves as a male victim with intense suspicion, and invalidates male experiences without the slightest care.
Despite what I was raised to believe about the issue, almost every man I know on any personal level has been in an abusive relationship with a woman, or been raped or sexually abused by a woman. Which does not diminish the high rate at which women also have those experiences at the hands of men. What it means is the issue should not be gendered. But the left's dogmatic gendering of the issue empowers female abusers. In a myriad of ways, but including influence over the law, as with the Duluth Model.
Not that the discussion here doesn't land with a lot of people. But I think it's severely underappreciated how many men are checked out simply because interacting with women on anything more than the most mundane transactional level is fucking dangerous. Not because women are worse than men. Don't mistake this for a misogynist rant. But because terrible women do exist, as much as terrible men exist, and terrible women at the moment enjoy the support of our culture and society to be terrible. As a man, if you happen to get mixed up with one, you have zero recourse. None. And not only that, but if you make that mistake, you come away from that experience with a visceral understanding of how much society has evolved to hate you. Of course men are opting to stay home and play video games.
Talking about stuff like lack of male role models is fine, but... turning it into a primary focus is pretty condescending in the context of a reality where there are much stronger explanations. Imagine telling women in the 60's that what they really need is role models to teach them how to be themselves. It's pretty much the same.
And I, about the most anti-conservative person imaginable, have been flirting with manosphere content for the last few years. For the exclusive reason that it's willing to recognize that I exist. It's the only source in the world for any no-strings-attached validation of my experiences having been trapped in an abusive relationship for 20 years. They offer the slightest shred of empathy. Whereas if anybody outside the manosphere suffers to acknowledge the issue at all, it is to be as unempathetic as possible.
Thanks for taking the time to write all that dude. I paused the video and read it properly. It would be great if Chris acknowledged this comment in some way. Unlike many RUclips comments, this one adds to the conversation on a pretty eloquent level.
And yeah I checked out a long time ago. There is a cruel irony in my case however. Until about three years ago I was socially awkward and generally just saw women as "the other". Happy to say I've eroded a lot of psychological boundaries and being a personal trainer has totally gotten rid of what I call the hot girl jitters. But now that I am more comfortable and confident and literally ready to date women - I am choosing not to. Because as you say - they are dangerous creatures right now. And I am in my early 30s, working my ass off to save/earn my way out of a lack of productivity or guidance through my 20's... And so on top of everything - a relationship, not to mention one that will probably go awry given time for exactly the ideologies that are being discussed in this video, will derail the already fragile existence I have as a man in today's society. Indeed, much better to come home after a hard day of training about 8hrs of sessions with clients, focus on a good healthy meal and sit down with Elden Ring until it's time to go to bed. Much safer. A very sad story to the married boomer with limited perspective perhaps. But safer
100% the rhetoric on the left is abysmal and I'm a liberal, it's gotten borderline retarded.
Excellent comments. One note on the "good person" point. The laws in the US are certainly very slanted in favor of women in regards to marriage and family court law. A man can be the "best person", but if a divorce turns ugly, woman have the legal club to buffet men with. "He abused me" doesn't even require any police reports to support the claim, and yet the courts will reward that behavior with preferential decisions.
There are men in jail for the sole reason that they lost their job and couldn't keep up with child support payments. They serve their time, get out, can't get a job anywhere close to as good as they had before (because they now have a record) fall behind on child support again...and go back to jail. A never ending cycle. (see article entitled "Skip Child Support. Go to Jail. Lose Job. Repeat." from the New York Times).
I'm sure you've read the quip, "Never sign a contract with someone who has an incentive to break it...", but there are large grains of truth therein.
One of the huge issues underlying issues is that women, and men, and feminism, and the patriarchy, and conservatives, and the Church, and both side of politics, in fact all societies everywhere, at all times, see men as disposable. Men have little value in and of themselves, their value is only assessed insofar as it provides a tangible benefit to other interests. All the tolerance of abuse, all the suicides, all the health issues, all the dispossession, all stem from the fact that men are not valued in and of themselves, for themselves. Their problems can only be admitted when it impacts people other than men. Men suffer from an empathy gap, always have, always will.
@@dharmadasa66 Yeah, the empathy gap is absolutely real, and I do think it is the undercurrent of everything. I can even recognize it in myself and have to consciously account for it now that I've become aware of it.
Not a word about divorce rape, or other laws that government has to fock men up
I just want to know that I can be valued as a person, but every time the mainstream starts talking about what's going on with men, the problem they see is that there's nothing they can get out of us
Women are allowed to change society to fit them but men must adapt to the new "moment"
@brianmeen2158 eventually i want to have a relationship and to start a family, but i know ahead of time that when I'm ready to date I'm going to find myself surrounded by people that are only there for selfish and superficial reasons.
I'm one of those older guys who mentors younger men. However, the headwind we both have in so doing is push-back from the women in the young men's lives, either specifically telling them old guy ways perpetuate patriarchy or telling them they just prefer the newer "evolved" sort of man. A preference which typically in fairly short time results in those women not being romantically attracted to those men desperately trying to figure out how to be what it is those women want.
I repeat my advice to be themselves as they work on developing integrity (operating in objective truth) and character (the ability to follow through on a decision after spirit in which it was made has passed). Their response is that the women tell them those are the qualities they want, but when the time comes for truth-telling or executing an unpopular decision those same women ratchet up the wrath.
I've seen and heard this more and more over the past 15 to 20 years. Truly saddening to watch their learned helplessness as they find themselves in what seems like an inescapable no-win situation.
I tell young men to ignore what women say. It's all pleasant sounding bullshit anyway. Be fearless and stop trying to navigate the cultural maze. Learn to trust and follow your own judgment.
As black man, i admire the way she (as a black woman) is addressing men's issue with emapthy and objectivity. That is very difficult taks and delicate balance to strike. I hope we can go from conversations into policies and actions. I personally think individualism in its radical form in america has to be addressed. Then we can talk about creating male- role model and male bounding activities for every racial and ethnic background. Boys only schools, reforming the boys scouts. Those are great places to start.
40:00 This segment here was very interesting and informative.
Based on what I’ve observed the left has a bias against men because metaphysically they view men as their oppressors, thus fundamentally the cause of all their problems. Them acknowledging men’s issues in their world, would basically mean they are giving their oppressors a helping hand, when in fact they believe that they themselves need it the most. Those pathological beliefs and sentiments towards men gets even worst the farther left you go. In my honest opinion, there is no Left without men being the center of their problems through the “Patriarchy”. The left doesn’t understand that their view of men are causing a lot of men to move on to the Right in great numbers, when they themselves always say that they need men to join in their fight and support them. But how can men do that if you simultaneously see their existence as an issue? I’m not saying the Right has everything figured out for men either, but at least they resonate with men more and don’t blatantly disregard men’s struggles.
Just like Chris pointed out before, many men are trying to find answers and good role models either through the likes of Jordan Peterson or Andrew Tate. The Left doesn’t have any spokesperson for men, which the Right does have currently, whether we want to acknowledge that or not.
The worst part is the right doesn't even work to solve the problems of men. They just don't treat them like evil monsters out to oppress. Men really don't ask for much.
Because the far left is nonsense.
nothing just marxism at play
Its interesting how when we support, build up, and help men, the more we alleviate the issues the so-called Left perceives as a "patriarchy." Strong, fulfilled, and happy men would keep women and minorities safer, and the men would more likely be on their side.
Agreed. I'd add that we also have a huge gap in the market for good female role models. Perhaps if there were more, we may see women adopt a more positive perception of men.
I once said to someone something about "behaviors characteristic of young men being deemed somehow toxic" and they got pissed that
1) they're not characteristic of young men, but of misogynists,
2) they actually are toxic, not just being claimed so for no reason,
before I even specified what behaviors I was talking about.
This was my first encounter with what I'd call something like self-reinforcing dual rejection. Completely denying one claim and on the basis of this denying another, which only makes it seem more likely that the first one was actually wrong in the first place. It seems to me pretty common in various discussions, especially political.
Yep. You call it dual rejection. I liken it to a lightsaber beam shooting out, but clearing one side, then the other, in a serial yet somehow instantaneous manner. It… doesn’t make sense, like my comment maybe.
@@elitenemysis6633 Great imagery, I dig it.
it's annoying and only serves to show that the other party does not have that much information on what they're trying to defend
So when are we going to talk about toxic femininity? 2/3rds of women say they feel bullied by their female coworkers. Let's start there.
I didn't check out of the workforce due to LACK of support, and I don't see the abortion "roll back" as a regressive movement against women. This woman doesn't speak for all women, thank you very much.
I’ve watched several of your interviews and enjoyed them for the most part. This woman, however, is clearly on the political left and dislikes men in general. It’s obvious from many of her more subtle statements that she wants men to get it together so that they can better serve women. That’s unfortunate bc much of what she has to say is valid. Those validities are voided by her underlying thoughts on the matter. All of her laughing vitriol is directed towards the “manosphere” and those who are prominent within it. A careful examination of all she says here clearly shows that.
It gives off a, “men are suffering, women most effected” type deal
With women working, who raises the children?? The state? Daycare workers? Who installs morality and ethics in children? How does a boy know what a man is if men are removed from the home? How does a girl know what a woman is if the mother is gone from the home?
They will say the men can raise the children
@@thrilla72 Who are 'they'?
A girl knows about both parents if they're both working
Feminism destroyed families and threw mothers under the bus.
@jebediahrambo
There's no guilt
I love how she said policy can't make men go back to their families when it is the women who file the divorce papers.
MGTOW : The only winning move is not to play
😂 you will die alone but that’s ok 👌
@@twainalex996 Honey, your projections are like water off a ducks back.
Gaaay!
Except they don't do that. They show up on women's forums and troll them. Please go your own way and stay away.
Unless you live off the grid, they'll make you play whether you like it or not. Your tax dollars will be harvested to maintain the system.
"The second you say toxic masculinity most men check out of the conversation"
This is because if a person says "Toxic Masculinity" they are attacking men because they can't define what is and isn't "Toxic Masculinity" so why bother having a conversation when it is clear that the person who is talking to you doesn't know what they are talking about, and will be unwilling to admit it and if you press them for those definitions they will say that you are a toxic man.
It is just a different way of having a conversation and you say something that disagrees with the other person's perspective and they say that's racist, and there is nothing you can do at the point because they have labelled you as something not worth interacting with or believing.
tbh I don't care what the media tells woman go be an astronaut w/e, but what was seriously fucked up in the last 20 years and took me a lot of time to get around was not necessarily needing encouragement, but being actively discouraged. That is fucked up, and now that I'm awake, that's what I'm pissed about.
Father's are absent because of women's choices and actions.
Single mothers are single because women choose to exclude the father - either from divorce or social security etc.
Not exclusively but yeah
For those who do not believe you. Few examples from what I've seen of "single mother".
#1 Woman reaches 35 years, wants a kid but she is still single. So she makes it with the first guy she can and often even without his consent. No wonder he either leaves her instantly or after few years. Yes, he is an asshole for creating a kid and leaving, but in the end. Men have no say in abortion or in anything really so all they are left is with running. And they are still considered bigger assholes for running than woman for killing.
#2 Few guys I know made the same stupid mistake: "I am a good earner, so you do not have to work, just take care of kids, easy life." So easy that they got bored and ruined all of their lives. Most of the time those wives are doing all they can to alienate the father.
#3 Standard non-working marriage divorced when the kids are around 10 years old. These kids mostly still have both parents though, just separated.
Can’t believe you let her say men need to take it upon themselves to role model when so many are actively excluded by the women. Dads haven’t become less fatherly over time on average.
Plus the older men who don’t have issues with masculinity grew up in a time of clearly defined male role models.
I know! What delusional hypocrisy. Textbook feminist response to blame and shame men for the world’s problems when the women caused all the problems. No wonder 3 out of 4 men are dying from their own hand and abusing substances to kill the pain. They will never accept accountability
I like how Chris and his guests don't interrupt and talk over each other, or at least, not very often, and when they do, it's to reinforce.
Talk to a women about masculinity is like talk to a soccer player about hockey… it amusing but baseless
It's very annoying.
Exactly. She used a lot of words to reveal the fact she understands jack shit about masculinity.
Bro all I wanted and still want is to not be discriminated against. If I wasn't discriminated against I would've paid off my student loans by now, made at least 20% in my career, had enough saving for a down payment for a house, and could've likely found a wife and started a family by now. Literally just cut the shit and leave us alone.
I'm sorry but this woman is just...it's another woman thinking like a woman about how to solve men's problems...if men were women.
I will continue to be masculine, my core nature. Those who don't take my lead will be left behind.
Guys who were raised that their masculinity is inherently bad need someone to teach them. Hopefully you can do your part
At about minute 21 she talks about abortion rights being 'rolled back'. This is a common misunderstanding. The fact is that even someone as far 'Lefty' as the late SCOTUS Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg knew Roe was doomed and would be overturned. Roe never actually secured abortion rights (SCOTUS cannot invent rights or grant them), that was a myth and it left women in a position where they didn't do the things that would have actually secured a right to abortion (an Amendment, or getting it secured in the laws of each State). Precedent can be overturned, and a later court of a different makeup will often do exactly that. That is why you should NEVER let the courts legislate from the bench.
BTW: Gays are in the same boat now. The decision that made gay marriage the same as heterosexual marriage is on the same shaky footing. Gays should be working in ever state and territory to make gay marriage legal in those jurisdictions so that when the time comes that the SCOTUS 'changes its mind' they would still have their marriage rights secured.
I'm 62. Growing up in Canada we had the concept of a young man of going on a quest. Some of us went to Europe with a backpack, some of us went into the wilderness. Either way at 18 we left home alone and went forward and tested ourselves. We came home with stories, we were men. Old school.
You're describing a rite of male passage, something boys need before they are considered men. The Australian aborigines called theirs a "walkabout," where a young man has to go out in the world on his own and survive in order to prove his mettle. We don't any rite of passage in modern Western society, except maybe military service.
Thanks for bringing yet another feminist on to talk about what men go through. I totally didn't see the "men, do better" diagnosis coming.
Welcome to the greatest new thoughts of the 1980's. All these issues were being recognized in the early 80's. and talked about in the 90's. But the hatred and exclusion of men was more important.
Someone needs to be blamed for women's problems, and it sure as hell isn't going to be them.
I thought this was a brilliant and constructive interview until the last few seconds when she endorsed “Barack Obama and Mitt Romney” as masculine role models - and I just about died laughing! Way to tank your credibility in the outro! It turns out you can indeed talk to a feminist about masculinity, but in the end, it’s just a huge waste of time! 😂
Women don't understand men. Women don't get to define masculinity or how men should behave. "Society" doesn't get to do that, since this is also women and their husband-pets, funtime boyfriends and their simp orbiters.
This here is about how the establishment is concerned about men walking away and organizing themselves outside of it. Also about men not helping to keep things together while everything goes into collapse (climate, environment, demographics, debt, ...).
right, I can at least see from a certain persuasion why she would believe that there would be those who would think of Obama as a role model, but the fact that she would think ANYONE would actually think of Romney as a role model but just not want to say it, is hilariously out of touch
I think you’re right, those suggestions were laughable. Obama was a leader but also reasonable for avoidable civilian deaths and a whole host of other scandals. Not a role model. I don’t know much about Romney.
Despite this, I wouldn’t dismiss the rest of the conversation, or its sentiments. We all say dumb stuff from time to time, but it doesn’t invalidate everything else we say or do.
Instead of just calling an example laughable, a rational person would give examples of what was wrong about them and give their own positive examples. I see admirable qualities in both of those men.
1: I never claimed to be a rational person. 2: Obama and Romney were both corporate cronies who only strove to maintain the status-quo for their political donors. 3: Trump, whatever his faults, was independently wealthy, and was thus willing and able to buck the establishment. 4: Hence, Trump = Manly Man, Obama & Romney = Effeminate Lackeys - IMHO.@@V.Hansen.
One issue is that there ARE women who honestly believe there is NO place in this world for men.
Listening to feminists on masculinity is the main reason I checked out of society. She is the problem.
@@brianmeen2158 more accurately it’s like getting a ideologue with little to no awareness of anything including themselves to give advice to people they have been taught to hate.
This is a very left wing view of the situation that men face. I’m not sure the female guest actually fully understands the struggles most men face.
she does not, once you realize that those are the people who understand mens problems the best you realize that nothing will change any time soon. This has been going on for atleast a century neglection men on a global scale, why not 40 years more?
It's about the fear of the established mainstream culture loosing their grip on men, and being concerned. We might be headed into a recession or collapse, they don't want men walking away from caring about all these old women which are a burden.
@@NoidoDev you dont understand, we are already in the middle of it.
With the digital revolution productivity didnt grow, let that sink it. We have declining birth rates already since a long long time. Its far below replacement level, south korea leanding with 0.84 per woman, btw the childless woman are the problem, not the mothers, mothers get as many children as they have always been getting.
And we are in a huge recessions since centuries. You just dont see it bc it is being covered up by inflatoin
They will need the men to rebuild the civilization from the ashes, after the pendulum swings back from this insanity and reaches equilibrium again. It’ll be a messy situation
Jordan Peterson has helped more men go the positive way then most people would care to do. He has helped men become a better masculine men and to stay away from “toxic type.” But other than that great conversation.
The other problem we have in America is that it’s impossible to survive financially anymore unless you have two working adults in a household. We don’t pay enough or have enough stability in jobs for only one head of household to work and for that fam to survive anymore. Housing is way too expensive. Actually everything is way too expensive but mostly housing, food and decent vehicles.
And it’s all been done by design.
Men need to do the wise thing for these circumstances. This means men stay in their parents basement and play video games. In no way should a man be anything more than politely absent from such a misandrist culture.
The irony is that in the start of this video, they glossed over 'men are earning less than they used to' - Uh, no duh, you doubled the workforce, the increased competition is going to lower wages.
I respectfully disagree. Our living standards are the highest in history. The average home today is 3x the size of the 1950s. We have tech and labor saving devices they only dreamed of. We live longer and healthier lives than at any other time in history. The 21st Century has been the most peaceful one in history. It would be great if people actually knew any history - they'd be a lot more grateful.
Living on one income is completely doable with the right skillset. But most people dont want to work that hard. It has much more to do with material expectations and priorities. And finding a sympatico mate, planning, deferring, and sacrificing. All the things we suck at as a society.
Seems to work better for men. Also, this is what you wanted.
I am not sure going to university in a non stem major is a useful addition for even females. They are trapped by loans and have to have a career to pay it off. This displaces them from the fertility window even if there academic hypergamy targets for them. Meanwhile young men have bombastic role models (influencers) or men's movements focus on isolation and self-aggradation. So this leaves us with an atomise society and the breakdown of communities.
More women than men go to college and the quality of graduates is worse than ever.
You know who else were trapped by loans?
Indentured Servants 😂❤
This is the way forward.
You speak the truth, brother.
They are trapped, but with a superiority complex.
This is gonna sounds interesting, a feminist telling us about masculinity.
The overreach of 'feminism' is one of the reasons I have exclusively chosen roughneck blue-collar jobs that tend to be very physically demanding. It doesn't sit well with me if I'm doing a job that the fairer sex can do. The cost of these choices can be reflected in earning potential (bank account points!). But that's a price I'm willing to pay to avoid the self-inflicted neuter job with all this sensitivity training.
Embrace the inner caveman, folks. It's what brought us to the dance in the first place.
@kc6810 I hear ya. To each their own. Two things: my goal isn't to be manly or to fill some paint by numbers predetermined role... just doing me and trying to honor the voice within. And your concern for some hypothetical future danger may rob you of experiencing the present moment. All the best.
@@geekvinos Good for you.
The reduction of the number of men working in teaching and the "caring" professions has reduced in parallel with the impact of feminism in society over time. Men who work with children and vulnerable people have a giant target in the middle of their back.
I’m male and work in education and disagree with this comment.
That is a bit exaggerating and parts of it are valid for women as well as also a female teacher has to treat many things in teaching/education differently than 30 years ago to avoid court. Often male teachers and social workers are even appreciated. I like how relaxed and serious this conversation was, but in the end things should be also not dramatised: Despite some alarming developments and problems, many men do still rather well and are also roll models.
@@florianmeier3186 lol I have my doubts you're a teacher, based on your grammar
But if it's being over exaggerated, why aren't men entering these professions in numbers like the use to?
It's because it's not being over exaggerated, if anything bias against men is still under reported and denied
I'm 74 and in a way went through all this before all this came to pass. My wife was the high earner and I fell into the support roll. 19 years in I got dumped much like many women had happen when men turn to the younger women issue. It wasn't the same but there was resentment over being the higher earner and perhaps I didn't give back equally. I'm not blaming her though. I have been spending the last 40 years just attempting to understand. I suspect you will find the answers in the long marrieds who really love one another. A pattern I see there is people who really appreciate they true nature of love that the world misunderstands. Less about feelings and more about qualities found in saints. That brings back faith.
I think you are on the right path with saintly values.
Society has become all about the emotions Aka 7 sins..
As for relationships just look at what is “expected” when it comes to marriage.. minimum spend on rings, minimum spend on wedding etc etc..
Lost in the emotions of worth, they become worthless to the relationship itself.
As they say “tricked by business”.
Not your fault, I was married 12 years, last two I went from being primary earner to primary care giver as a result of the economic crash of oil, as a couple we both agreed that i would be stay at home dad as jobs that were available would not cover childcare expenses and she had secure well paid job. It took all of two years for her to become resentfully as a result of entitlement, despite me doing a very good job of being a home maker, she started heating, then abusive, eventually physically, where I left as a result. She resented having to take on the responsibility mostly reserved for men, while already enjoying the same if not more privileged men have.
@cube252002, @reflectiveFrankC thanks for sharing guys. that's scary stuff
This conversation is so incredibly relevant, which makes it frustrating to see so many comments from people that clearly didn't listen to the episode. In the first few minutes of the episode, they laid out how difficult it is to even begin because you have to clarify the nature that although they are saying one thing they are not discounting another. I see from these comments that there is a critical thinking theory missing from the descents, two things/ideas/truths can be present at the same time, the MeToo movement CAN be a good thing while also bringing about negative consequences, there can be war and peace within the same country just because one thing exists does not discount the other from existing as well. The hosts literally outlined this theory in the very beginning.
Many maybe already heard the arguments? That aside, it can be judged on the motivation behind it, the details don't matter so much.
They basically proved her right!
"they laid out how difficult it is to even begin because you have to clarify the nature that although they are saying one thing they are not discounting another."
And yet, throughout the entire discussion Christine blamed men for every ill that was mentioned, and not once did they blame women for anything nor even come close to placing an ounce of obligation upon women.
The take away from 'how difficult the discussion is without a host of caveats' should have been: "Ignore the caveats entirely because it is unnecessary to virtue signal to the progressive left in the first place'.
It is not at all hard to talk about the issue in real terms without waffling about or walking on eggshells to avoid the nonsense virtue trip wires.
Well, but your example does not fit well: There is no peace in war especially within the same country. Todays wars are too severe to have no impact in the surrounding. However, I would agree that the valid point here was that crisis in men does not mean we have just to move backward and making women less capable to satisfy men, but invent something new acknowledging the facts of biology, but also of cultural and economic developments and maybe the best statement in the talk: It will need some time.
@@shawn4110 I do not see that she blamed anybody except society as such not excluding women. I also do not see that women as such do any harm here. There are specific men and women in special positions who might misuse their influence or overcompensate what was missed in the past with good or bad intentions, but there is no point to blame one sex specifically here and it is also a bit simple to just blame one political direction. If we are honest, few really want to go back to 19th century society. Wishing a better standing for men does not require marginalising and blaming women.
Emba has no right to have an opinion on these topics. She clearly hasn’t taken any time to properly diagnose the issue and therefore her prognosis can only perpetuate the disenfranchisement of men.
Men make up most CEOs and politicians? Must be because of discrimination, not the fact that most women don’t want a job that requires working so many hours per week, being away from home, giving up time with family.
Women are doing better in school? Must be because men are failing, not because teachers (who are overwhelmingly female) are harsher on boys and the school system itself is tailed for how girls learn.
Her article is valueless pap that shows how disconnected the Left is from reality. It’s just the same old, “men are suffering, women most affected.”
Take your own advice, stop being hypocritical. You can’t say that women in the workplace are there because of choice, but also boys in the education system are failing because it’s rigged against them. You can’t claim that boys are discriminated against in school by female teachers, but then maintain that women at jobs are just having a grand old time at the hands of male bosses.
And see, this is precisely why so many women struggle to empathize with men, you have never emphasized with us. When women are getting the short end of the stick, we’re just inherently inferior, but when males struggle, it can’t be their fault and the entire system is flawed. You clearly don’t like being treated in such ungenerous ways, so don’t do it to the other half of the population!
This talking point confuses the shit out of me anyway because how was the school system possibly designed for girls when women were not allowed (higher) education until 5 seconds ago? I think at the administrative level it’s still men in charge, I think the majority of principals are still men. Did something radically change, is the sex of the teachers accounting for this effect? Or were the men who set up the school system centuries ago just poisoning the well for future boys?
the problem is men dont have any rights, woman select through sex, men through resources. Mens resources are being taken away through taxes, inflation and child support through state force.
Woman not only have their selection rights, but also offloaded the burden of their gender on men, which is usually the cost of pregnacy.
Feminists saying they are fighting for equal rights, bla bla, its bullshit, woman have their natural selection rights + they have mens rights.
If woman had no rights, they would sit in cages and men would be allowed to have sex with any female they wanted at any time as often as they wanted, clearly not the case, clearly no men would want that.
Two points: #1 I wouldn't put JP and Andrew Tate in the same category. #2 Want some lessons in manhood, read the Stoic philosophers..
I'd love to see a conversation with a woman that agrees with that ideology that doesn't already agree with you. So many of these "conversations about conversations we need to have" sound great and are important, but I do feel like the people who are speaking like this don't tend to actually have the hard talks.
Because they are not allowed to place any fault upon women nor even hint at any accountability or responsibility given to women.
The guest here said it herself 'we don't want to lose the gains women have made', but all the gains women have made have been special rights and privileges gained while shedding all accountability and responsibility.
Midway through the talk they exchanged examples of what men are 'supposed to do'. If the conversation were stopped and Chris asked 'what do women have to do and what obligations must all women perform' - there would have been crickets, and yet, women want to keep 'all their gains' which is indeed just a list of special privileges rather than 'equal rights'.
You will unfortunately, never see the needle move on this topic in any meaningful way because the progressives don't actually want to end the gender war; they very much want a gender war, they just want women to win it.
@@shawn4110 this is a show on the crisis of men. Why are they talking about women at all? Women don’t need to be included at all. Women aren’t stopping men from doing anything.
@@Yomel123 They are indeed. Society has put in place a myriad of positive discrimination measures that favor women and disenfranchise men throughout their education and career.
Progressive women are also the inventors of toxic masculinity, and the ones pushing for male nature to be demonized.
Feminist women are the ones who lobby against any services for men, and lobby to amplify advantages for women.
Modern women are the reason relationships moved from traditional courtship to promiscuous hookup culture post their sexual revolution.
Men are dropping out precisely because they are discriminated against, demonized by society as toxic, and the traditional motivations men pursued have been removed, thus, demotivating male achievement.
If this were a show about women's struggles, you can bet your butt that at least half of it would be talking about how 'oppressive' men are, and how the 'patriarchy' was holding women back.
@@Yomel123 Of course talking about women needs to be included because it's the vocal women on social media platforms that are actively denigrating men and telling men how they should feel about everything from fitness to relationships to how they need to behave according to their standards. Now add in gender quotas and the fact that most young men are raised by single mothers, there is absolutely no way for men to escape the type nonsense being forced upon them through societies nonstop catering to women.
Every single male oriented space is being forced to be co-ed for absolutely no reason. Any place that reserved for men has to be forced to comply with allowing women or is perpetually attacked until it is dissolved but at the same time there are women only gyms, events, clubs, pricings, etc.
You can't talk about equality and the need for feminism if there is constantly a thumb on the scale tilting things in one direction over the other and then me
@@Yomel123 Women are largely responsible for the problem, through their support of misandric feminism. Basically, women as a whole have no empathy for men. Also, patriarchy and feminism both see men as disposable, not worth anything in their own right, but only valued to the extent they benefit others.
It is interesting to have different prespective on the crisis on men. I hope you look at the crisis on men in the legal prespective, ie harassment on men, the legal double statand on men, etc.
Seriously? 😂All he talks about is the crisis of MEN! Which is a good thing btw
@@TheManWithNoName6as I said, good to see and explore different presepective
@@TheManWithNoName6 I am not here for your suggestion. Bye
Even when commenting on young boys, who aren't yet men, there is still the jab at their masculinity, as they're more likely to "wilt". Ms Emba doesn't take into mind that there are many more services and supports for girls and women, than there are for men. It's doubtful that girls bounced back without them. However, for boys, and it's a hard lesson, they're on their own.
I am just glad that this is mostly contained in the West. Every other country is fine and observing from a distance.
Yeah. Though there are few countries that are starting to adopt this "system" per se.
I'd say far west.. This isn't a thing in Scandinavia either.
@@GodsOwnPrototype good example actually.
@@druncle1977 I call bullshit. What exactly do you mean when you say "this isn't a thing" ?
Lmfao wtf do you mean “every other country is fine”? Wtf do you mean by “fine”? Every other country is also the scene of terrible human rights violations.
I never heard of a police department, fire department, military, or even a construction team of women.
That's because our societies rely upon male aggression, no matter how much people like Richard Reeves, Chris and Christine don't want that to be true
@plantbased9502As more and more women are becoming national leaders, women will be responsible for wars.
@plantbased9502 you're spreading a largely false narrative about history.
A more honest account is that the female contraceptive pill liberated women from their own biology and allowed them to participate in aspects of society other than from within the home.
@plantbased9502then stop picking where and when females want equality and equity😂
@jebediahrambo useless at most jobs
Sociopaths, male or female, tend to rise partly because while they can be happy or angry they're never sad. Depression never holds them back.
Younger men may struggle more with masculinity than older men as a result of growing up in the modern era. More single mothers, man hating, over abundance of “strong female characters” in Hollywood, lowered requirements for the same job in police/fire/military positions, worsening outcomes in divorce and family courts, social media, etc.
Men have the same expectations as they always have but get less rewards while basically nothing is expected of women but they get handed anything and everything they want…even when they do not deserve it and/or have not earned it.
GenZ and younger generations being more based despite growing up in a more feminized environment is giving me hope.
Handed anything and everything they want? Where? Where’s my handout? I’m out here broke as fuck and grinding my ass off to do well in university and train myself for a job. I didn’t know it was as easy as existing with a vagina 🙄
like every other woke victim group
Alhumdulliah. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the UK, Europe, the USA, and the whole world.
So they must be getting married and having kids and families.
We follow the guidance of God and it clearly defines what to do and what not. And the appropriate dynamics between the men and women that lead to a lasting, fruitful relationship.
Oh, and it also tells us what a woman is!
Peace
@@kamrudkd 🐑🐑🐑
27:28, when she said that Dr. Jordan Peterson is somewhat of an "attention wanting figure", is when I checked out.
I could just as easily say that she wrote her article for attention, and that's why she's in public...
I would like to see this woman on a podcast with Jordan peterson and explain how hes off the rails
He really was on a dark romance cover. My boy! The mad lad wasn’t lying.
Ricochet by Keri Lake
I get the feeling that things aren't really going to change, possibly ever. Men have, since time immemorial, have always been the vast majority of the homeless, soldiers, outcasts and 'undesirables'. I do not believe that our fortunes will change because there is so much resistance to even talking about it and that when those conversations do happen, they are relegated to isolated containment at best and derision at worst.
It seems more likely to me that the fortunes of women will diminish and be rolled back. I would rather we take seriously men and men's challenges while retaining the solutions to women's traditional challenges, but I often feel the wind blowing in the direction that the future human holds no empathy for anyone.
I'm out there but single moms don't like raising kids by themselves really and their kids will know more single moms out there more damage think about it raising boys men ain't.....raising girls this is what you do too get a man ...no empathy left your right it's not rocket science @ its gonna get worse .
You are correct imo, things will be about the same for men in the future and things will be worse for the types of women who want to occupy traditional male roles/spheres.
It'll change.......when things get bad enough. Most people can still easily do the 8hr gig and pay bills. They b*tch but aren't starving....yet. Once things finally get to a low enough point things will change. Will probably be a lot of life lost but that's what happens when a society goes full ret*rd and loses touch with basic natures that haven't changed since the beginning. My hope is that enough masculinity has been bred out of the modern man that the low point is much lower. Maybe then the lesson will last longer.
I really appreciate women like her
Good discussion. Glad it is finally in the mainstream. What is not being discussed is the following:
- open misandry
- assuming single parent households are exclusively the fault/failing of men and that they are not in the child’s lives
It was hilarious to see Chris mention Gamma Bias and then proceed to use gamma bias when he mentioned single parent households. It was clear that both him and Christine were referring to single mothers.
Chris seems to be putting himself forward as a potential role model for young men but he panders too much to women policing of language.