This is a test I've been waiting for. At 73 years of age, I've been moving towards ebikes. My road bike is a Giant Defy Advanced Pro 0, and I've been looking for a kit to transform it into an ebike. What's stopped me so far has been the bike's carbon frame. I'll be following this build to see if your serious problem can be resolved. As for the price-it's expensive, but have you priced a light e-road bike lately. They're EXPENSIVE! Anyways, well done lads!!
Agreed, to make my nice bike into an ebike, it's still coming out a little high but if the kit is easy to swap on and off, then I can have one bike to do it all, saving on saddles etc
At 69 I'm just a little behind you age-wise. How many more bikes are you gonna buy in your lifetime? If I needed another e-bike I'd be getting the Bianchi I noted above for $4500. It ain't cheap, but based on the experience both me and my wife have with MAHLE X35 powered Bianchi bikes, I can't recommend 'em enough!
A few of the older chaps in our town run these kits on their bikes and they do 100+km rides on them every day, its an excellent choice to allow everyone to come to the group ride.
The freehub check you did demonstrates that the wheel did work, and was not locked, with no power going to it, so it really should have done the same when the battery ran out of power, suggesting some kind of fault with the unit.
I think they burnt it out by riding in on level 5 for 2 hours. I guess the manufacturer expects people to use lower levels during the ride to let the thing cool down.
Yeah. Ultimately it has crappy quality control. I'd be pissed if I paid that much for something that just dies after a few or even one serious ride. Maybe the manufacturer was hoping they'd just ride it around the block a few times and give it glowing praise.
@@MylesHSG but did it? Looks to me it was running on illegal settings. I don't think Francis would struggle following Jimmi on a flat road if it was cutting out at 25kph.
Fitted a Bafang mid drive and battery to my bike after suffering a stroke, added a fair chunk of weight but makes up for the poor power in one of my legs. 750miles so far with no problems to report
Ebike hobbyist here: This happened to my DIY build too. Cracked her open and its burned wires. Its hard to explain how but the metals tend to stick to the magnet once the wires are burned out. It could still be other things but in my experience, this may be the most likely cause.
hi guys. i started watching your videos 6 months ago. als a mtb dude not my usual content. i general was not into roadie things. you made me curious. now i have an old trek 1.9 from 2009 and loving it to ride it. i got it dirt cheap with a damaged bb and fixed it easily. i am now riding much more time on the road bike than my mtbs. next thing is to build gravel bike. you are a "bad" influence. :D love your content. keep going. sending love from germany. c.
It's the bit with Jimmi "it says Error and it's flashing" could of been a hint that something was wrong. Nice looking kit though be interested to hear what failed.
I recently bought a Mondraker Dusty rr egravel bike which is an amazing piece of kit which can do 60 miles easily or 80 with a range extender. Before buying it I tried a bike with a Cytronex kit. They are British made - based in Winchester. I was impressed with my test ride. Their kit is light and cost around £1k. There's also Boost in the UK who also look good. Slightly cheaper. For myself though, the advantage of a modern carbon purpose built ebike was overwhelming. They are so good now.
I installed a "BionX" 500w kit on my wife's Giant Escape. It is an all aluminium bike that we fully kitted for loaded touring. With 4 full panniers, she was consistently able to get 110 km of riding at about 20 kph (touring speed). She rode the bike on level 2 of 4. Unfortunately the BionX system is no longer manufactured. A really cool feature was that it had regenerative braking, so some charging occurred on steep mountain roads. Since we live in the interior of British Columbia, this was a real advantage.
Interesting. This could be a solution for injured, broken or older riders. A kit like this would help my wife get out on her bike again so I'm intrigued how this goes.
I'm 8 years into an injury and almost every day I struggle on my road bike only able to barely do 1/10 the distance I used to I think about getting an ebike. The problem is the battery just don't last as long as Id want to ride for. So id end up riding an ultra heavy bike making it even worse. Especially when I imagine these things take a whole to recharge?
@@out_spocken your body is compromised, so you must compromise. You could easily do 100km with an ebike kit (depending on elevation) at modest boost, but even the modest boost settings is like the world's greatest tailwind. Then you can still ride, do a decent pace, cover a decent distance, but not wreck yourself every time you ride. Ebikes are brilliant.
Most ebike vendors provide range estimates based upon ideal conditions: ~80kg rider, flat terrain, little to no wind, pedal assist 3 (out of 5), and for their highest range values they assume pedal assist level 1
Definitely interested to see what happens with the 2nd wheel, as this seems like a very tidy design with a decent bit of tech in it. Quite a bit expensive for what I'd be looking at it for, throwing it on my commuter for longer riders to get heavy loads and have some assistance on the way back when loaded, but as you say, the tech is improving. Other than that though, yeah, keep the motors on cars, truck and motor cycles, bicycles are human powered vehicles if you're riding them recreationally for fun or exercise.
I would guess the motor phase cables melted somewhere from over heating. Check the motor cable from the wheel for visual melting. If this has happened any of the phase cables inside touch, it will cause a regen braking effect. If you can't see damage to the cable anywhere, I suspect some other components inside the hub are burnt out.
Well, another entertaining video; just the sort of thing I would have got up to in my teens - lots of fun and totally f**k’g useless. Now I’m 80 and even less sensible in the opposite direction, I built a throwback steel frankenbike with 5 speeds and a Campag clamp on shifter and nuovo record rear derailleur - lots of fun and totally f**k’g useless. Cheers, lads!
I used a front hub ebike conversion kit on my hybrid commuter bike. I usually have it on 1 or 0 and crank it to 4 or 5 to help with hills. Main thing to watch out for in kits is that the battery is reputable. I bought a kit from a local supplier thinking they'd done due diligence, but it was actually a generic battery from China. For context, battery fires happen mainly with poorly made batteries, and noname batteries can be a mixed bag. I replaced it with a battery that uses Samsung cells and that made me feel better safety-wise.
Been building ebikes for a while but generally with MTBs, which also end up very heavy and batteries end up huge. This lightness plus e-power has legs. None of mines ever locked up, usually that's due to a short in the 3 phase motor cables. The resistance is higher the bigger the motor, but its still rideable.
This kit actually looks quite interesting to me. I have an older road bike which I use for commuting and I wanted to buy carbon wheels for it. For 2k this is not far off from a set of carbon hoops and it will convert my bike to ebike.
The torque sensor is not very good. As far as I can figure out, for each of the four power levels, it gives half power as soon as you pedal, then full power when you cross some pedal torque threshold, which you can feel as a big step in power. It''s not proportional at all, but it works OK and you get used to it.
All e-bikes use a torque sensor or a cadence sensor or both. Torque sensor is typically added to bottom bracket to actually measure your input like a power meter. Cadence sensor is usually mounted to crank and frame to detect crank motion and speed. This kit ignores all that, yet you mentioned that it was tracking your input and matching it with commensurate output. I'm guessing it includes a torque sensor in the hub motor which is able to detect your input via the chain. If that's the case it's definitely an advanced feature. Will watch for this kit being reviewed by a-bike reviewer, in case they can confirm. Too bad it 5hit the bed on the first go.
Blendr is a really good, neat system for mounting accessories (Trek/Bontrager ones, of course) so that you didn’t need to use rubber bands or mount things on your bars or seat post. My lights and computer are all mounted this way.
I was feeling properly tempted until it seized at the end. Looked good, went well, acceptable range. The follow up will be interesting. But the real issue is whether Joe Punter would get the same service on failure as Cade Media?
I think, this is geared motor (36V, 250W) and most common fault is: planetary gear fail. Usually, one of nylon cogs tear apart under load. Brushless motor - usually is trouble free for its lifetime. But, I will wait for any update....
@@MylesHSG I like the Swytch in principle. But not keen on it being a front hub drive. Or the battery being on the bars, which is a really weird choice. This system’s design was much slicker. Warranty and support, yes, you’re certainly likely to be right.
This kit is similar to the Boost conversion kit sold in the UK. 540 (British pounds) looks to be a much cheaper alternative (but only comes with one aluminum wheel).
nice test.. for the pricing though, and if your bike is new enough that the warranty matters, maybe best to splurge on a whole bike. Looking forward to a re-test and see what happens with the defect feedback from the manu.
That's pretty cool. As a youngish, fittish person I'm not particularly interested in ebikes, but I can certainly see how quickly this technology is developing and how this could be useful to people who aren't as young or fit as I am. Will be interested to see what actually caused the problem you're facing, since that definitely doesn't seem like normal behaviour.
I have a eMTB Orbea Rise but i ride a road bike, a Titanium Sabbath with Chorus rim brake . I am 65 and live i West Yorkshire. The kit looks great but you would get more range inf you used the power settings properly.
nice video , for the followup you should put the battery on the downtube for better weight distribution and test the full charge on level 3 rather than max 5 , I am seriously considering getting this for my Trek checkpoint :)
Very promising! If the wheelset is carbon, then a good wheelset OEM costs 500 bucks. I d have to check the specs they offer. Then there's the price of the hub motor, the battery and the head unit. The head unit looks pretty neat, they bothered to make an adapter for cockpits, so that's easily 50 bucks. 2k sounds spicy, at 1500 it's becoming really quite attractive. I can do 100km rides unassisted but I can see myself doing more such rides with such a kit, especially in a bike holiday context like a cycling block. Could be a great way to do a monster Z2 block in the canary islands for example.
The soul crushing moment, they call an ebike that only weights 100g more than your normal bike heavy 😂 Then you remember the thru axled, shimano sora, carbon forked disk braked bike plus the few minor upgrades costed, less than half the cost of just the e bike kit 😂
We need someone to build this with a cruise control and a power meter. Imagine how good that would be for testing aero positions, tires, tire pressure. Tell it to hold a speed and see the power over a given course. It would be way more consistent than a human tasked with holding steady power or speed.
One major issue if true, but it appears this kit is illegal because the assist doesn’t cut out at 25kph. Given all issues currently with unregulated e-bikes, I’m surprised there was no mention of this.
It was all going so well... Conversion kits that work - yes. Conversion kits that mean you can't ride when something goes wrong - not a chance. Great video but don't expect a shop to touch one and for £2k, I'd rather buy an eBike with a reputable comapny's motor on it.
Interesting. I built mine using seperate parts that I paid about $600 aud for. I never ride on 5 for long and expect you burnt out motor. I have a lit of experience with electric motors and duty cycle( how much of the time they work hard) is a problem with many small motors. It is easy to work them to burnout. I reckon I could ride my 250w hub on 2 or 3 setting, of 5 for 100klm with 7ah battery but I am working between hilks and just letting bike assist against gravity.
100g e-bike conversion kit. essentially same thing, calling at about 700 pounds. comes in different battery sizes, ranges from 30milees of range to 120miles of range. less wire (only one between the battery and the motor,, controlled using phone or the battery in itself.
While i do agree with most of the sticker shock comments to a certain degree, you have to consider it's a kit that includes a matching front wheel. Most other kits do not sell as a matched kit.
Nice review, I am surprised they dont just make the batterys water bottles like the lights used to go. I know they may ned to be bigger, but maybe they should be smaller ;)
China cycling have tested this set. It's probably the most highend china set you can get. The price is too high for me, I would love to try it on my steel gravel bike.
Was looking fantastic until the ah, but, moment. 2k is a lot of dough, but a full carbon disc brake wheelset is nice. Looks a really compelling package. Do they do ally rims? I like the way things are progressing though. 3kg for a motor and a battery is doing ok. I have an Orbea Gain with the X35 system, and the overall bike is a similar weight (well the carbon ones are, but mine is alu frame). Riding in max assist is great for commuting to avoid getting sweaty but not for a leisure ride for a light e-road bike. Ride in the lowest assist you can manage, or off on the flat, and you've got plenty in reserve for the steep hills or if you just get too tired. I'd be very interested in how it rides with the assist off altogether, with motor drag and weight.
If you look at most e bikes they consist of a head unit, controller and motor. Looking at that kit the controller must be in the rear hub so is more likely to overheat, add to the fact that the disk is connected to the hub more heat will transfer to the hub. I doubt is can deal with hilly environment as its to small. i suspect its a controller failure. As motors and batteries are far more robust. A midddrive unit like the Tongsheng TSDZ8 which has a torque sensor pedal assist is a muck better solution. A road bike is pointless as there is no benifit using a light weight bike as the motors have a high torque rating.
that locking up was weird! definitely some issue with the stators or something in that hub because yeah, when not powered, it should just be a heavier wheel
Would love to see the 50 watt e-road bike. Can't remember the brand(you gesturedythem recently). But a 2 kg system to assist you up hills sounds like a great compromise.
That's pretty mad I have a bottom bracket mounted ebike motor (Bafang BBS), and it once turned my pedals into fixie style ones when the prawl clutch teeth got stuck. Being more DIY designed, it was easy to replace. Think I prefer that to the rear locking up randomly.
ok so one thing, This thing is absolutely illegal if it is not limted to 25 km/h and 250W of total output. If it is still giving power at 29 km/h, as it showed. This would definately be illegal
When I’m riding my ebikes I constantly change power modes and gears for optimal output - I rarely use the highest power out put and mostly on the ‘tour’ setting - I get about 42ish miles on my 500wh canyon grail battery
Actually really interesting. I can see some value in having more versatility with my current bike - maybe go electric for commuting or when you have a zone 2 day but want to ride with a faster group - instead of buying a dedicated e-bike. Interesting concept, hope it continues to develop
Great video! Wonder if Mahle does aftermarket kits for the x20 or x35? I know some of the big brands use their rear hub kit but if they did an aftermarket option it may be more reliable and better quality than what you have tested here.
I'm trying to figure out this is for. If you're into road biking why would you want to add power assist? Defeats the purpose. Maybe if you're commuting to work.
I've riden my Bafang motor for over 3 years and easily over 20,000 miles ,it just keeps going .I'm still using the same battery, too.I can't recommend them enough .I'm 55 I really couldn't ride a normal bike now .
First, my advice for anyone considering this gizmo is to spend another 2500 and get a Bianchi E-Oltre with Shimano 105 and MAHLE X30 e-assist. Yep, the WHOLE E-bike ready-to-ride with warranty from Bianchi/Shimano/Mahle in case of issues. Mahle X30 system should work great based on my experience with X35 and X20, though I have yet to try one. Second, you guys are clueless as to the value and reason for e-assist like this. It's NOT to create an e-moped to race against your friends, seeing how far you can go with the assist set to max. Instead it's like having a strong pro to ride with you...a nice one who will give you a gentle push if/when the climb is too steep or a strong, steady wheel to sit on should you overdo it and be fried before the ride is over and you're back home. Guys like you don't need this of course, but there's no cure or the common birthday..so old-farts like me who still want to ride need a bit of help...otherwise we're limited to rides short enough or flat enough that we know we can do 'em. Where's the fun in that? E-bikes (not e-mopeds) put the fan back in!
Agree. Running it at max for so long probably isn't good for the motor or battery. The usual use case is adjusting the power as needed so you can keep up with whoever you're riding with / get some help on the hills.
@@svsanchago UH, what? My wife has 3 X35 bikes while I have one X35 and one X20. The oldest one's going on 3 years with zero issues other than a visit to a MAHLE dealer for an update that cost $10.
@@SpuddyIRL My point is the kits are a waste of $$. $2K's not nothing so why gamble on some no-name gizmo from who-knows-who in China when you can buy something like MAHLE (not that they're the only reputable maker) factory installed in a road, gravel, etc. bike from an actual bike shop for another $2500, as in the case of the Bianchi I noted? Seems like false economy IMHO.
2000 euros??? That's nuts! I have bought an ebike conversion kit from Aliexpress and the kit was under $300 with a 700x30 rear wheel with a 1500W in-hub motor. I also got a 48V 24Ah battery for around $360 so this 2000 euro price is just crazy!
@@timoma6620 My actual point is that lower wattage hub motor kits are even cheaper and the lower Amp/hr batter would also be cheaper than the prices I paid. So once again a price of 2000 euros is really way out of line.
2000 euros seems like a lot, but think of all the older bikers who have a Colnago or some such that they love, but who also want e-boost. A nice seamless e-boost for 2 grand is nothing for them.
Bikes have the ability to remove cars off our roads. Bike secure parking, better batteries, cost are the three big issues for these really taking off. The first almost the most important strangely enough.
I had exactly the same problem with the blocked wheel on one of my bikes. Beforehand I had asked the shop keeper if that would happen and he denied it. I let him install the motor but when I tried it out exactly his happened. So I asked the shop to remove the motor and to give me back the money, and they did. Why should it void the bike's warranty? The warranty is for fabrication mistakes and not for anything else. If you'd damage your bike when installing and using this motor then it's not covered by the warranty but if your frame cracks because of a production mistake it is - the the weight of the motor is negligable (or how you say in English).
I assume the reason why It would void your frame warranty is because of unintended forces applied with the rear wheel. So not so much the weight but torque that's not really supposed to be there
The simple argument is the expression *_normal use._* Every manufacturers of any vehicule, including bicycle has it in some shape or form in their warranty. I have added 1 minute to the time it took you to speculate and write your comment, found the WILIER TRIESTINA warranty and relevant section about a warranty claim and wrote this comment. _Of course it is a requirement that the complaint is justified and that the defect is not caused by an incorrect use of the product or other injurious behavior._ I always thought that most of the people that are intellectually lazy are working as hard into making what seems to them the easy way out.
@@Cloudwtc So, following your logic, when pedalling on a regular bike, the rear wheel has no torque neither any force in it? That's absolutely crazy. On a regular bike you transmit the torque to the wheel through the hub, which is now replaced by an electric motor. Forces are the same, and because we are talking about torque (radially applied force), the only thing that could suffer would be the axle, but in any should the frame get damaged by it. If it does, then it is a frame's production mistake that you would encounter by pedalling yourself anyways.
@@sylvainmichaud2262 As it is not stated what they mean by "incorrect use" that article wouldn't apply to the use of a motor. They would have to prove that the use of the motor caused the damage. The weight is not a factor because I might be 10 kg heavier than you and that would be more than the weight of the motor (4 kg); and if you add a couple of panniers the weight would be even higher. Or you might produce more watts than me when you pedal therefore the strain on the frame, the cogs etc. can't be the reason either. The producer of the bike would have no chance in court.
when the battery depleted, further force overwhelmed internal gearing and caused teeth to shear. no amount of recharging could realign or reforge them.
Aside from the locking up issue you experienced, I'd consider something like this for my gravel bike. It has alloy wheels now so maybe the weight penalty would be less as an upgrade and could probably go all day on level 1 or 2 assist. Historically I've had issue with the assist kicking in and bucking the bike or making you surge at the start, did you experience this with this kit? How easy is it to change wheelsets and take off the wheel and battery?
The dodgy wheel aside that would be a no for me. When I am riding normally, my rides do on occasion go longer than 2 hours and up to 70k. And that is nothing compared to the serious riders around the place. Further, to get more distance/life out of the battery, you restrict your speed? I think my bike runs better with just my locomotion on it.
What was the advertised Watt-hour capacity of the battery? How much did the battery weigh if one wanted to carry a spare? What was the advertised torque rating of the motor? How far and how much climbing do you think you could have done if on setting one only during climbing (off during flats and descents)? That is what I'm interested in, just extending regular rides, not going full e-bike (setting 5).
It's €2000 bloody euros though. And I've seen e-racer bikes (whole bikes brand new) on eBay for £650 and they weren't those Deliveroo JustEat delivery guy types.
No, not sure would go for it with this high cost. But if i still wanted to try it I am not sure why someone would not test this in a controlled environment first? I think the test should be done on the cycling trainer first. Beats a lot of hassels. I would rather have a talk with the manufacturer if they have tried this. Many e-bikes are built very heavy. Why heavy grip tyres and bulky frames, only? Why should we not benefit from the negative research results from the manufacturer? People want to serve different purposes with e-bikes. Some wants longer battery 🔋 with very small amount of assistance through the day, while some wants burst of power. Results would very for different style of riders and over different duration of ride. I would definitely like to get more information. But burning up the curious researchers is not the best way. I would rather associate with manufacturers with a team of bike riders and get paid for your involvement and professional opinion. It will have more safety aspects covered as well for you and others. I am not sure if i am qualified to suggest any these things professionally. Good luck with the next step.
Really need to see the range when set to level one. I have a geeko conversion kit on my touring bike that lasts 95 miles on a flat route. I'd like to see how this compares. Also what is the battery capacity? Max speed motor power etc
I saw that Geeko kit on another channel. I love how they have 3 options. Front, rear or both. I'm tempted to do the dual kit but that's also around $ 2,000 USD....if I'm remembering correctly. I'd only put it on my longtail conversion, and maybe one of my other cargo haulers.
How would the state even enforce the legality though? The person could always just say they're planning on using it on private property only. Unless cops are going to start pulling people over lol.
If you put the battery to the front bottle mount you have better weight distribution.
Yeah. But it makes it more difficult to grab a bottle.
@@KerenWangyeah, I like my bottle upfront
@@KerenWanglol and my dumbass keeps taking the rear bottle when I’m reaching down while pedaling..
Yebbut then you can only put a small bottle in the back cage. OK if you're going to burn your motor out in 40 km, I suppose.
@@KerenWang who needs water when you have an e-bike?
This is a test I've been waiting for. At 73 years of age, I've been moving towards ebikes. My road bike is a Giant Defy Advanced Pro 0, and I've been looking for a kit to transform it into an ebike. What's stopped me so far has been the bike's carbon frame.
I'll be following this build to see if your serious problem can be resolved.
As for the price-it's expensive, but have you priced a light e-road bike lately. They're EXPENSIVE!
Anyways, well done lads!!
Agreed, to make my nice bike into an ebike, it's still coming out a little high but if the kit is easy to swap on and off, then I can have one bike to do it all, saving on saddles etc
Sell your Giant, buy a steel bike and Bob’s your uncle. The sale will pay for the steel bike and the e-bike kit….
Look at the Boost bike kit
At 69 I'm just a little behind you age-wise. How many more bikes are you gonna buy in your lifetime? If I needed another e-bike I'd be getting the Bianchi I noted above for $4500. It ain't cheap, but based on the experience both me and my wife have with MAHLE X35 powered Bianchi bikes, I can't recommend 'em enough!
get a specialized vado, under 2 grand, looks great and not too heavy (for an e-bike)
A few of the older chaps in our town run these kits on their bikes and they do 100+km rides on them every day, its an excellent choice to allow everyone to come to the group ride.
My 74y old dad is riding one when riding with the young kids. He says he only activate it in the climbs so he can still do long rides.
The freehub check you did demonstrates that the wheel did work, and was not locked, with no power going to it, so it really should have done the same when the battery ran out of power, suggesting some kind of fault with the unit.
I think they burnt it out by riding in on level 5 for 2 hours. I guess the manufacturer expects people to use lower levels during the ride to let the thing cool down.
@@mikew466 Well it doesn't exactly look like it's that hot outside either. Imagine how hot it would get at a lower level in the summer.
@@mikew466 yeah but the motor should have cut out at 25kph so it wasn't "on" for 2 hours straight.
Yeah. Ultimately it has crappy quality control. I'd be pissed if I paid that much for something that just dies after a few or even one serious ride. Maybe the manufacturer was hoping they'd just ride it around the block a few times and give it glowing praise.
@@MylesHSG but did it? Looks to me it was running on illegal settings. I don't think Francis would struggle following Jimmi on a flat road if it was cutting out at 25kph.
Fitted a Bafang mid drive and battery to my bike after suffering a stroke, added a fair chunk of weight but makes up for the poor power in one of my legs. 750miles so far with no problems to report
I've done over 20,000 miles on my current BBS02
My bbshd more than 20k loved it.
Ebike hobbyist here: This happened to my DIY build too. Cracked her open and its burned wires. Its hard to explain how but the metals tend to stick to the magnet once the wires are burned out. It could still be other things but in my experience, this may be the most likely cause.
hi guys. i started watching your videos 6 months ago. als a mtb dude not my usual content. i general was not into roadie things. you made me curious. now i have an old trek 1.9 from 2009 and loving it to ride it. i got it dirt cheap with a damaged bb and fixed it easily. i am now riding much more time on the road bike than my mtbs. next thing is to build gravel bike. you are a "bad" influence. :D love your content. keep going. sending love from germany. c.
It's the bit with Jimmi "it says Error and it's flashing" could of been a hint that something was wrong. Nice looking kit though be interested to hear what failed.
I recently bought a Mondraker Dusty rr egravel bike which is an amazing piece of kit which can do 60 miles easily or 80 with a range extender. Before buying it I tried a bike with a Cytronex kit. They are British made - based in Winchester. I was impressed with my test ride. Their kit is light and cost around £1k. There's also Boost in the UK who also look good. Slightly cheaper. For myself though, the advantage of a modern carbon purpose built ebike was overwhelming. They are so good now.
I installed a "BionX" 500w kit on my wife's Giant Escape. It is an all aluminium bike that we fully kitted for loaded touring. With 4 full panniers, she was consistently able to get 110 km of riding at about 20 kph (touring speed). She rode the bike on level 2 of 4. Unfortunately the BionX system is no longer manufactured. A really cool feature was that it had regenerative braking, so some charging occurred on steep mountain roads. Since we live in the interior of British Columbia, this was a real advantage.
Interesting. This could be a solution for injured, broken or older riders. A kit like this would help my wife get out on her bike again so I'm intrigued how this goes.
I'm 8 years into an injury and almost every day I struggle on my road bike only able to barely do 1/10 the distance I used to I think about getting an ebike. The problem is the battery just don't last as long as Id want to ride for. So id end up riding an ultra heavy bike making it even worse.
Especially when I imagine these things take a whole to recharge?
@@out_spocken perhaps a spare battery could be purchased that you swap out when the first battery is drained?
@@out_spocken your body is compromised, so you must compromise. You could easily do 100km with an ebike kit (depending on elevation) at modest boost, but even the modest boost settings is like the world's greatest tailwind. Then you can still ride, do a decent pace, cover a decent distance, but not wreck yourself every time you ride. Ebikes are brilliant.
Most ebike vendors provide range estimates based upon ideal conditions: ~80kg rider, flat terrain, little to no wind, pedal assist 3 (out of 5), and for their highest range values they assume pedal assist level 1
Cool finally seeing a thru axle ebike kit
Middrive would let you use the wheels you already have.
Didn't grin tech have thru axle system?
@@SirBrass mid drive puts a lot of forces on your running gear, wouldn't fancy running that through an expensive groupset
Grin technologies have an all axle motor that has a thru axle.
@@MylesHSG surely no more than if you were just pedaling that fast
Your office is turning into a bike store. 😎
Definitely interested to see what happens with the 2nd wheel, as this seems like a very tidy design with a decent bit of tech in it. Quite a bit expensive for what I'd be looking at it for, throwing it on my commuter for longer riders to get heavy loads and have some assistance on the way back when loaded, but as you say, the tech is improving. Other than that though, yeah, keep the motors on cars, truck and motor cycles, bicycles are human powered vehicles if you're riding them recreationally for fun or exercise.
I would guess the motor phase cables melted somewhere from over heating. Check the motor cable from the wheel for visual melting. If this has happened any of the phase cables inside touch, it will cause a regen braking effect. If you can't see damage to the cable anywhere, I suspect some other components inside the hub are burnt out.
Well, another entertaining video; just the sort of thing I would have got up to in my teens - lots of fun and totally f**k’g useless. Now I’m 80 and even less sensible in the opposite direction, I built a throwback steel frankenbike with 5 speeds and a Campag clamp on shifter and nuovo record rear derailleur - lots of fun and totally f**k’g useless. Cheers, lads!
Thanks Francis , and Jimmi . That did look pretty cool .
I used a front hub ebike conversion kit on my hybrid commuter bike. I usually have it on 1 or 0 and crank it to 4 or 5 to help with hills. Main thing to watch out for in kits is that the battery is reputable. I bought a kit from a local supplier thinking they'd done due diligence, but it was actually a generic battery from China. For context, battery fires happen mainly with poorly made batteries, and noname batteries can be a mixed bag. I replaced it with a battery that uses Samsung cells and that made me feel better safety-wise.
pretty decent customer support, good of them to send a new one.
"Wow this kit looks pretty good!" "Oh nevermind..." 😂
Been building ebikes for a while but generally with MTBs, which also end up very heavy and batteries end up huge. This lightness plus e-power has legs. None of mines ever locked up, usually that's due to a short in the 3 phase motor cables. The resistance is higher the bigger the motor, but its still rideable.
This kit actually looks quite interesting to me. I have an older road bike which I use for commuting and I wanted to buy carbon wheels for it. For 2k this is not far off from a set of carbon hoops and it will convert my bike to ebike.
that Willier is a stunning frame
Since you’re reviewing conversion kits now, I’d like to see you review the Tongsheng TSDZ2B. It’s a mid drive unit that uses a torque sensor.
ToSeven has a better middrive torque sensing kit, actually
The torque sensor is not very good. As far as I can figure out, for each of the four power levels, it gives half power as soon as you pedal, then full power when you cross some pedal torque threshold, which you can feel as a big step in power. It''s not proportional at all, but it works OK and you get used to it.
This went from smiles to frowns real quick lol
All e-bikes use a torque sensor or a cadence sensor or both. Torque sensor is typically added to bottom bracket to actually measure your input like a power meter. Cadence sensor is usually mounted to crank and frame to detect crank motion and speed.
This kit ignores all that, yet you mentioned that it was tracking your input and matching it with commensurate output. I'm guessing it includes a torque sensor in the hub motor which is able to detect your input via the chain. If that's the case it's definitely an advanced feature. Will watch for this kit being reviewed by a-bike reviewer, in case they can confirm. Too bad it 5hit the bed on the first go.
Blendr is a really good, neat system for mounting accessories (Trek/Bontrager ones, of course) so that you didn’t need to use rubber bands or mount things on your bars or seat post. My lights and computer are all mounted this way.
I was feeling properly tempted until it seized at the end. Looked good, went well, acceptable range.
The follow up will be interesting. But the real issue is whether Joe Punter would get the same service on failure as Cade Media?
I think, this is geared motor (36V, 250W) and most common fault is: planetary gear fail.
Usually, one of nylon cogs tear apart under load.
Brushless motor - usually is trouble free for its lifetime.
But, I will wait for any update....
@@kellypaws have a look at the Switch kit is probably more expensive but it's a UK company so warranty and support will be miles better
@@MylesHSG I like the Swytch in principle. But not keen on it being a front hub drive. Or the battery being on the bars, which is a really weird choice. This system’s design was much slicker. Warranty and support, yes, you’re certainly likely to be right.
@@kellypaws ah yes good point about it being front hub, I've seen people put the battery on the seat post but not sure if that took a lot of hacking
This kit is similar to the Boost conversion kit sold in the UK. 540 (British pounds) looks to be a much cheaper alternative (but only comes with one aluminum wheel).
Great video! Please do a full follow up video on this - I'm intrigued!
nice test.. for the pricing though, and if your bike is new enough that the warranty matters, maybe best to splurge on a whole bike. Looking forward to a re-test and see what happens with the defect feedback from the manu.
That's pretty cool. As a youngish, fittish person I'm not particularly interested in ebikes, but I can certainly see how quickly this technology is developing and how this could be useful to people who aren't as young or fit as I am. Will be interested to see what actually caused the problem you're facing, since that definitely doesn't seem like normal behaviour.
I have a eMTB Orbea Rise but i ride a road bike, a Titanium Sabbath with Chorus rim brake . I am 65 and live i West Yorkshire. The kit looks great but you would get more range inf you used the power settings properly.
nice video , for the followup you should put the battery on the downtube for better weight distribution and test the full charge on level 3 rather than max 5 , I am seriously considering getting this for my Trek checkpoint :)
Very promising! If the wheelset is carbon, then a good wheelset OEM costs 500 bucks. I d have to check the specs they offer. Then there's the price of the hub motor, the battery and the head unit. The head unit looks pretty neat, they bothered to make an adapter for cockpits, so that's easily 50 bucks. 2k sounds spicy, at 1500 it's becoming really quite attractive. I can do 100km rides unassisted but I can see myself doing more such rides with such a kit, especially in a bike holiday context like a cycling block. Could be a great way to do a monster Z2 block in the canary islands for example.
The soul crushing moment, they call an ebike that only weights 100g more than your normal bike heavy 😂
Then you remember the thru axled, shimano sora, carbon forked disk braked bike plus the few minor upgrades costed, less than half the cost of just the e bike kit 😂
I have used the Switch kit, works great on a standard Brompton.
We need someone to build this with a cruise control and a power meter. Imagine how good that would be for testing aero positions, tires, tire pressure. Tell it to hold a speed and see the power over a given course. It would be way more consistent than a human tasked with holding steady power or speed.
Grintech cycle analyst can use torque sensors as power meters. 2 in 1
grin technologies is working an a spectaculair motor that can break and freewheel without drag. That is gonna be a great one for a conversion kit.
One major issue if true, but it appears this kit is illegal because the assist doesn’t cut out at 25kph. Given all issues currently with unregulated e-bikes, I’m surprised there was no mention of this.
Agree, it's the same where I am with the cutoff. Though it varies by country, so perhaps where the company is based it doesn't have that regulation.
It was all going so well... Conversion kits that work - yes. Conversion kits that mean you can't ride when something goes wrong - not a chance. Great video but don't expect a shop to touch one and for £2k, I'd rather buy an eBike with a reputable comapny's motor on it.
Interesting. I built mine using seperate parts that I paid about $600 aud for. I never ride on 5 for long and expect you burnt out motor. I have a lit of experience with electric motors and duty cycle( how much of the time they work hard) is a problem with many small motors. It is easy to work them to burnout. I reckon I could ride my 250w hub on 2 or 3 setting, of 5 for 100klm with 7ah battery but I am working between hilks and just letting bike assist against gravity.
100g e-bike conversion kit.
essentially same thing, calling at about 700 pounds. comes in different battery sizes, ranges from 30milees of range to 120miles of range.
less wire (only one between the battery and the motor,, controlled using phone or the battery in itself.
While i do agree with most of the sticker shock comments to a certain degree, you have to consider it's a kit that includes a matching front wheel. Most other kits do not sell as a matched kit.
The video that I’m been waiting for…
Nice review, I am surprised they dont just make the batterys water bottles like the lights used to go. I know they may ned to be bigger, but maybe they should be smaller ;)
i HAD to stop the video, Francis with a Zelda mug? made my morning!
China cycling have tested this set. It's probably the most highend china set you can get.
The price is too high for me, I would love to try it on my steel gravel bike.
Was looking fantastic until the ah, but, moment. 2k is a lot of dough, but a full carbon disc brake wheelset is nice. Looks a really compelling package. Do they do ally rims? I like the way things are progressing though. 3kg for a motor and a battery is doing ok. I have an Orbea Gain with the X35 system, and the overall bike is a similar weight (well the carbon ones are, but mine is alu frame). Riding in max assist is great for commuting to avoid getting sweaty but not for a leisure ride for a light e-road bike. Ride in the lowest assist you can manage, or off on the flat, and you've got plenty in reserve for the steep hills or if you just get too tired. I'd be very interested in how it rides with the assist off altogether, with motor drag and weight.
If you look at most e bikes they consist of a head unit, controller and motor. Looking at that kit the controller must be in the rear hub so is more likely to overheat, add to the fact that the disk is connected to the hub more heat will transfer to the hub. I doubt is can deal with hilly environment as its to small. i suspect its a controller failure. As motors and batteries are far more robust.
A midddrive unit like the Tongsheng TSDZ8 which has a torque sensor pedal assist is a muck better solution. A road bike is pointless as there is no benifit using a light weight bike as the motors have a high torque rating.
It's in the battery unit
that locking up was weird! definitely some issue with the stators or something in that hub because yeah, when not powered, it should just be a heavier wheel
Would love to see the 50 watt e-road bike. Can't remember the brand(you gesturedythem recently). But a 2 kg system to assist you up hills sounds like a great compromise.
That's pretty mad I have a bottom bracket mounted ebike motor (Bafang BBS), and it once turned my pedals into fixie style ones when the prawl clutch teeth got stuck. Being more DIY designed, it was easy to replace. Think I prefer that to the rear locking up randomly.
ok so one thing, This thing is absolutely illegal if it is not limted to 25 km/h and 250W of total output. If it is still giving power at 29 km/h, as it showed. This would definately be illegal
When I’m riding my ebikes I constantly change power modes and gears for optimal output - I rarely use the highest power out put and mostly on the ‘tour’ setting - I get about 42ish miles on my 500wh canyon grail battery
Nice I would review this if I own a road bike
2 grand !!! A rather buy a already built electric bike for that much
i'd rather buy a motorcycle
Though, how many bicycles do you want to own in the end
It's only a matter of time we get the good AliExpress version of this. It's not very expensive parts tbh, but low volume.
Wheel lockout can be because of faulty wire harness of the motor wheel. Had similar problem.
Actually really interesting. I can see some value in having more versatility with my current bike - maybe go electric for commuting or when you have a zone 2 day but want to ride with a faster group - instead of buying a dedicated e-bike. Interesting concept, hope it continues to develop
Maybe speed controller has blown and is shorting out the motor windings, which will cause phyisical motor resistance
Just wait for solid state batteries to hit the market it’s gonna revolutionize the e-bike game!
Great video! Wonder if Mahle does aftermarket kits for the x20 or x35? I know some of the big brands use their rear hub kit but if they did an aftermarket option it may be more reliable and better quality than what you have tested here.
Looking forward to the follow up
Can't believe your wheel got locked in the end 😂
I'm trying to figure out this is for. If you're into road biking why would you want to add power assist? Defeats the purpose. Maybe if you're commuting to work.
I've riden my Bafang motor for over 3 years and easily over 20,000 miles ,it just keeps going .I'm still using the same battery, too.I can't recommend them enough .I'm 55 I really couldn't ride a normal bike now .
One thing that should be tested is biking in heavy rain. Is the electronics happy with that?
now make a disc wheel with the motor hidden inside, and have a crazy fast TT bike
First, my advice for anyone considering this gizmo is to spend another 2500 and get a Bianchi E-Oltre with Shimano 105 and MAHLE X30 e-assist. Yep, the WHOLE E-bike ready-to-ride with warranty from Bianchi/Shimano/Mahle in case of issues. Mahle X30 system should work great based on my experience with X35 and X20, though I have yet to try one.
Second, you guys are clueless as to the value and reason for e-assist like this. It's NOT to create an e-moped to race against your friends, seeing how far you can go with the assist set to max. Instead it's like having a strong pro to ride with you...a nice one who will give you a gentle push if/when the climb is too steep or a strong, steady wheel to sit on should you overdo it and be fried before the ride is over and you're back home.
Guys like you don't need this of course, but there's no cure or the common birthday..so old-farts like me who still want to ride need a bit of help...otherwise we're limited to rides short enough or flat enough that we know we can do 'em.
Where's the fun in that? E-bikes (not e-mopeds) put the fan back in!
do you know of any kits like this that are any good or only e bikes ?
Agree. Running it at max for so long probably isn't good for the motor or battery. The usual use case is adjusting the power as needed so you can keep up with whoever you're riding with / get some help on the hills.
The Mahle system is trash. Batteries come bricked from the factory
@@svsanchago UH, what? My wife has 3 X35 bikes while I have one X35 and one X20. The oldest one's going on 3 years with zero issues other than a visit to a MAHLE dealer for an update that cost $10.
@@SpuddyIRL My point is the kits are a waste of $$. $2K's not nothing so why gamble on some no-name gizmo from who-knows-who in China when you can buy something like MAHLE (not that they're the only reputable maker) factory installed in a road, gravel, etc. bike from an actual bike shop for another $2500, as in the case of the Bianchi I noted? Seems like false economy IMHO.
Have these guys taken over from GCN?
Please invite @E-bikeguy onto your podcast!
Ride 1 up has an impressive gravel/road e-bike that is roughly the same price.
Not available in Europe, sadly!
@@joehodgson2815also the sizing options suck
2000 euros??? That's nuts! I have bought an ebike conversion kit from Aliexpress and the kit was under $300 with a 700x30 rear wheel with a 1500W in-hub motor. I also got a 48V 24Ah battery for around $360 so this 2000 euro price is just crazy!
That is illegal and therefore probably unimportant for most people 🤔
It's not even close to being comparable, this is an insanely premium product.
@@ilhm474 If it's such a premium product why did it lock up the rear wheel? I don't think this is any more premium than the kit I received.
@@timoma6620 My actual point is that lower wattage hub motor kits are even cheaper and the lower Amp/hr batter would also be cheaper than the prices I paid. So once again a price of 2000 euros is really way out of line.
@@jensenhealey907efi Just getting a completely regular carbon wheelset from aliexpress is at least £400 and a legit brand ones are at least £800...
2000 euros seems like a lot, but think of all the older bikers who have a Colnago or some such that they love, but who also want e-boost. A nice seamless e-boost for 2 grand is nothing for them.
You can do a conversion for about £600 - £700 with a good size battery.
The motor cable is probably damaged. If the phase wires are shorted, the wheel will stop turning forward.
Bikes have the ability to remove cars off our roads. Bike secure parking, better batteries, cost are the three big issues for these really taking off. The first almost the most important strangely enough.
42km on a road bike? Doesn't sound like much 😁😁😁 42km on trails would be great, but on a road... Anyway, cool experiment with a bitter ending 😂
Damn this looks good.
I could see this being good for bike packing with a lot of luggage
I had exactly the same problem with the blocked wheel on one of my bikes. Beforehand I had asked the shop keeper if that would happen and he denied it. I let him install the motor but when I tried it out exactly his happened. So I asked the shop to remove the motor and to give me back the money, and they did.
Why should it void the bike's warranty? The warranty is for fabrication mistakes and not for anything else. If you'd damage your bike when installing and using this motor then it's not covered by the warranty but if your frame cracks because of a production mistake it is - the the weight of the motor is negligable (or how you say in English).
I assume the reason why It would void your frame warranty is because of unintended forces applied with the rear wheel. So not so much the weight but torque that's not really supposed to be there
was it the same kit/brand?
The simple argument is the expression *_normal use._*
Every manufacturers of any vehicule, including bicycle has it in some shape or form in their warranty.
I have added 1 minute to the time it took you to speculate and write your comment, found the WILIER TRIESTINA warranty and relevant section about a warranty claim and wrote this comment.
_Of course it is a requirement that the complaint is justified and that the defect is not caused by an incorrect use of the product or other injurious behavior._
I always thought that most of the people that are intellectually lazy are working as hard into making what seems to them the easy way out.
@@Cloudwtc So, following your logic, when pedalling on a regular bike, the rear wheel has no torque neither any force in it? That's absolutely crazy.
On a regular bike you transmit the torque to the wheel through the hub, which is now replaced by an electric motor. Forces are the same, and because we are talking about torque (radially applied force), the only thing that could suffer would be the axle, but in any should the frame get damaged by it. If it does, then it is a frame's production mistake that you would encounter by pedalling yourself anyways.
@@sylvainmichaud2262 As it is not stated what they mean by "incorrect use" that article wouldn't apply to the use of a motor. They would have to prove that the use of the motor caused the damage. The weight is not a factor because I might be 10 kg heavier than you and that would be more than the weight of the motor (4 kg); and if you add a couple of panniers the weight would be even higher.
Or you might produce more watts than me when you pedal therefore the strain on the frame, the cogs etc. can't be the reason either.
The producer of the bike would have no chance in court.
when the battery depleted, further force overwhelmed internal gearing and caused teeth to shear. no amount of recharging could realign or reforge them.
Him: "Why is it talking to me?"
Bike: "Don't do this you will bring disgrace upon my lineage."
Not for me, maybe in the next 30 years when I retire :)
Aside from the locking up issue you experienced, I'd consider something like this for my gravel bike. It has alloy wheels now so maybe the weight penalty would be less as an upgrade and could probably go all day on level 1 or 2 assist. Historically I've had issue with the assist kicking in and bucking the bike or making you surge at the start, did you experience this with this kit? How easy is it to change wheelsets and take off the wheel and battery?
Can we get a series on e bike kits for race/road bikes this is unreal
The dodgy wheel aside that would be a no for me. When I am riding normally, my rides do on occasion go longer than 2 hours and up to 70k. And that is nothing compared to the serious riders around the place. Further, to get more distance/life out of the battery, you restrict your speed? I think my bike runs better with just my locomotion on it.
What was the advertised Watt-hour capacity of the battery? How much did the battery weigh if one wanted to carry a spare? What was the advertised torque rating of the motor? How far and how much climbing do you think you could have done if on setting one only during climbing (off during flats and descents)? That is what I'm interested in, just extending regular rides, not going full e-bike (setting 5).
2k for the kit and the battery only has a year warranty. If you are riding above 15.5 mph then the motor won't be kicking in.
I ride my Swytch ebike at level 1 all the time because otherwise I’d get zero fitness benefits from riding. L1 is about 50 watts.
It's €2000 bloody euros though. And I've seen e-racer bikes (whole bikes brand new) on eBay for £650 and they weren't those Deliveroo JustEat delivery guy types.
No, not sure would go for it with this high cost.
But if i still wanted to try it I am not sure why someone would not test this in a controlled environment first? I think the test should be done on the cycling trainer first. Beats a lot of hassels.
I would rather have a talk with the manufacturer if they have tried this.
Many e-bikes are built very heavy. Why heavy grip tyres and bulky frames, only?
Why should we not benefit from the negative research results from the manufacturer?
People want to serve different purposes with e-bikes.
Some wants longer battery 🔋 with very small amount of assistance through the day, while some wants burst of power. Results would very for different style of riders and over different duration of ride.
I would definitely like to get more information. But burning up the curious researchers is not the best way.
I would rather associate with manufacturers with a team of bike riders and get paid for your involvement and professional opinion. It will have more safety aspects covered as well for you and others.
I am not sure if i am qualified to suggest any these things professionally.
Good luck with the next step.
Really need to see the range when set to level one. I have a geeko conversion kit on my touring bike that lasts 95 miles on a flat route. I'd like to see how this compares. Also what is the battery capacity? Max speed motor power etc
I saw that Geeko kit on another channel. I love how they have 3 options. Front, rear or both. I'm tempted to do the dual kit but that's also around $ 2,000 USD....if I'm remembering correctly. I'd only put it on my longtail conversion, and maybe one of my other cargo haulers.
Sigh. There aren’t enough Cade videos.
eBikes are the best tool for motor pacing. IYKYK.
Is it legal? Isn't there a 25 km/h upper limit to this kind of electric bike?
How would the state even enforce the legality though? The person could always just say they're planning on using it on private property only. Unless cops are going to start pulling people over lol.
The limit is only the motor support. Not the max speed. But tbh I don’t know if this China motor is cut at 25.
If the support goes over 25 km/h it wouldn't be legal in Europe, unless it is classified as s-pedelec, which requires a number plate and other things.
@@cdamianthe assistance does cut out at 25kph on that kit.
Only illegal if you get caught
"Don't try this at home"
Those magic words that every company sending their product out for review wants to hear 😂😂
I recently discovered my Swytch kit on my Brompton could be turned down from level 5. Who'd have thought!
Legend of Zelda mug goes crazy
9:36 what was Francis doing HAHAHAHA