How do you handle situations where the horse can't really say no? Do you still use start buttons and just hope they say yes? If they don't do you do it anyways? (Like for example with the dentist or something, idk about anyone else but we can't afford to have the vet come out without getting their teeth done, so if they said no to the needle we'd really just have to do it anyways...). Edit: Idk if I made it clear but like obv we would prepare them for the dentist and practice with multiple people, having the crush around, all that stuff...but if it comes down to it the whole point of the start button is that they CAN say no, right? So there's always a possibility they'll say no in a situation where...they can't, where they HAVE to have it done. So what do you do in that situation?
Excellent question! The goal is to prepare in such a way that the horse doesn’t ever feel the need to say no. That they will be excited to participate and we aren’t running that risk. However, reality happens sometimes. Either the horse is very stressed, something goes wrong, etc etc First thing we try is to take a break and try again after a quick evaluation of why the horse may be saying no. Sometimes changing the set up, standing in a different position, changing the value of the reinforcer, having a different person do it, bringing a companion near by… these are some different ways we can help improve the experience for the horse and increase the likelihood of the horse saying yes. Second thing we do (and we try and avoid this when possible, but sometimes it’s truly urgent/an emergency and so we must) is switch to a more “tolerance training” approach. Meaning we don’t offer the start button, and we just make it as low stress and pleasant as possible to get it done. Tolerance training is an acceptable approach for many situations without ever pursuing start buttons, even in non emergency (like if your horse is “okay” with being bathed but doesn’t love it, but if you give them some alfalfa they will tolerate the bath and since you only do it once or twice a year it’s just not a big deal to take that route kind of thing) . However in a situation where it’s been necessary to teach a start button/cooperative behavior or you’ve already established that dialogue and understanding with the horse… we try our best to stay consistent with that and not take away the choice. Hopefully this helps answer your question!
So do you always have hay available during these training sessions? I’ve been keeping hay available because I don’t want to be the only source of food and kinda “force” him to engage because there’s no other option for food… also does it matter whether you throw the treat in the bucket or give by hand?
there would be the option, to have an open training area, so the horse could just walk off. Or have the horse know, whenever they want to end the session (eg by walking to the door) the session get ended. U think for short training session like this 5-10 Minutes should be fine without food available. I mean the horses know that food will be available afterwards again, so I would argue that they don't feel forced due to that. If a horse has good manners trained and is keeping his head straight while waiting for food, giving it by hand is not an issue. Throwing it in a feeding pan has the advantage, that the horse doesn't focus on the treat pouch and has a very clear set feeding position. So it does matter, but not fundamentally.
As much as I can I always offer alternative reinforcement access. Whether that's an open gate to green pastures, or a flake of hay, or an enrichment activity, etc. Even for my very experienced horses. It's especially necessary for horses with any tension around food or frustration.
It does not matter if you feed by hand or by hand. I do both depending on the horse and the behavior I'm training. Sometimes the food pan offers a cleaner "loop" and set up than by hand. Sometimes it helps alleviate any tension. I do really enjoy offering reinforcement by food pans as much as possible.
@@greencat1314why force a horse to do anything it's not right you're the reason I hate horse training I don't want to become a forced horse trainer against my willingness
How do you handle situations where the horse can't really say no? Do you still use start buttons and just hope they say yes? If they don't do you do it anyways? (Like for example with the dentist or something, idk about anyone else but we can't afford to have the vet come out without getting their teeth done, so if they said no to the needle we'd really just have to do it anyways...).
Edit: Idk if I made it clear but like obv we would prepare them for the dentist and practice with multiple people, having the crush around, all that stuff...but if it comes down to it the whole point of the start button is that they CAN say no, right? So there's always a possibility they'll say no in a situation where...they can't, where they HAVE to have it done. So what do you do in that situation?
Excellent question! The goal is to prepare in such a way that the horse doesn’t ever feel the need to say no. That they will be excited to participate and we aren’t running that risk.
However, reality happens sometimes. Either the horse is very stressed, something goes wrong, etc etc
First thing we try is to take a break and try again after a quick evaluation of why the horse may be saying no. Sometimes changing the set up, standing in a different position, changing the value of the reinforcer, having a different person do it, bringing a companion near by… these are some different ways we can help improve the experience for the horse and increase the likelihood of the horse saying yes.
Second thing we do (and we try and avoid this when possible, but sometimes it’s truly urgent/an emergency and so we must) is switch to a more “tolerance training” approach. Meaning we don’t offer the start button, and we just make it as low stress and pleasant as possible to get it done. Tolerance training is an acceptable approach for many situations without ever pursuing start buttons, even in non emergency (like if your horse is “okay” with being bathed but doesn’t love it, but if you give them some alfalfa they will tolerate the bath and since you only do it once or twice a year it’s just not a big deal to take that route kind of thing) . However in a situation where it’s been necessary to teach a start button/cooperative behavior or you’ve already established that dialogue and understanding with the horse… we try our best to stay consistent with that and not take away the choice.
Hopefully this helps answer your question!
@@TheWillingEquine It does, thank you!!
Thank you for this video! It’s great to see examples while you’re explaining 😄
So do you always have hay available during these training sessions? I’ve been keeping hay available because I don’t want to be the only source of food and kinda “force” him to engage because there’s no other option for food… also does it matter whether you throw the treat in the bucket or give by hand?
there would be the option, to have an open training area, so the horse could just walk off. Or have the horse know, whenever they want to end the session (eg by walking to the door) the session get ended.
U think for short training session like this 5-10 Minutes should be fine without food available. I mean the horses know that food will be available afterwards again, so I would argue that they don't feel forced due to that.
If a horse has good manners trained and is keeping his head straight while waiting for food, giving it by hand is not an issue. Throwing it in a feeding pan has the advantage, that the horse doesn't focus on the treat pouch and has a very clear set feeding position.
So it does matter, but not fundamentally.
As much as I can I always offer alternative reinforcement access. Whether that's an open gate to green pastures, or a flake of hay, or an enrichment activity, etc. Even for my very experienced horses. It's especially necessary for horses with any tension around food or frustration.
It does not matter if you feed by hand or by hand. I do both depending on the horse and the behavior I'm training. Sometimes the food pan offers a cleaner "loop" and set up than by hand. Sometimes it helps alleviate any tension. I do really enjoy offering reinforcement by food pans as much as possible.
Ik this is an older video but do you have any ideas on how to offer the choice of working out on trails/arena/etc once you’re ready to ride?
@@greencat1314why force a horse to do anything it's not right you're the reason I hate horse training I don't want to become a forced horse trainer against my willingness