Deathrattle Rogue Broke Something
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- Опубликовано: 19 окт 2024
- I think there is a cap to the number of deathrattle triggers but it seems they stack far too many times for the game to handle. Here is Umbra, the new elemental and Necrium blade.
Every weekday ► / danehearth
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Cold Rise
#Hearthstone #Wild #badlands 
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I think there is a cap to the number of deathrattle triggers but it seems they stack far too many times for the game to handle.
Pretty good anti-bot deck if you think about it, the bots won't concede and leave before all the calculations are done so others won't have to play against them lol
Dane: "Don't do this. It's a waste of everyone's time."
Also Dane: "So here's how you do it..."
Kidding. Love you homie! You shooting for 200k subs this year, right? That's gonna need more YT streams! 😊
bae shouldn't you be careful of posting exploits
@@kittysplode if anything he's helping blizzard find them and patch them
@@kittysplodeexploits?
Everything is working as intended.
It's not Dane's fault the Devs haven't learned from their past mistakes at all, and put no cap on the interaction.
Umbra is not getting banned, Danes gonna get banned.
Blizz Jailed!
Hope not. Jailed for their crimes...
It's times like these I wish 'I'm sorry' still existed.
Play Mayor Noggindonger, and you'll get your sorry.
You know it's a classic Dane video when Cold Rise is ripped out to be played
Only the very best of all Dane videos have the EDM blasting while some wonky ass loop happens in 2x speed. Love it!
I'm not saying we should, but I wonder what would happen to the servers if everyone did this at the same time?
Nothing good
i'm down to do it
A nuclear shroom would be seen from blizz HQ.
That would be a great way to see how many accounts blizzard is willing to permaban.
And so would be the servers@@madmastah2503
Oh boy... You'd think Blizzard would have learned their lessons about Exponential Interactions at this point 😅
Blizz every now and then... ANOTHER ONE DJ KHALID
They've learned nothing from sexual harassment yet so yes
Good old Exponential Elemental
Or playtesting wild
I don’t think they saw this one coming
I don't know if it was intentional, but I love that the weapon reloading bops perfectly in time with Cold Rise!
At what timestamp?
@@shocknawe8:50
@@noatrope thanks!
Ahhh, been waitng a while for some cracked combo deck. Thanks
" Perpetual motion doesn't and can't exist ! "
Dane:
i love how casually he destroys this games mechanics
Might've mised a mention of this but what if you use Naval Mine as the other deathrattle? Would dropping the opponent's health to 0 matter?
Probably not, Xyrella Hero Card will keep going long past your health total reaching zero until it resolves
He mentioned Leper Gnome didn't work in the intro, so probably not
It doesn’t, just tested
@@zakmaniscoolIt definitely doesn't. The game still tries to calculate the rest of the deathrattles so it ends in a tie.
An effect happens in three steps in hearthstone: Before Triggers (whenever...), the effect itself, and after triggers.
None of these steps trigger deathrattles, or kill things at at 0 hp. That only happens once the stack is empty, or hard coded during Tess/Yogg.
(The previous part is accurate, the rest of the comment was wrong. Problem is that weapons equipping over weapons trigger the deathrattle immediately, so the stack never empties)
Mate what have you done
That what a lad must do
the real question is how is this the first thing you find out about when a new set is released and how do you find about this to begin with
Love how Dane gives a description of a „combo“ in minute detail and ends it with „Don’t do this!“
I doubt umbra's gonna get banned, if anything they'll change graveyard and rivendare (and maybe necromechanic but I doubt they'll even think of that) or they'll just ban the blade outright
It would make the most sense for them to ban the new card, Shadowstone Skulker.
Change Graveyard to trigger only minion Deathrattles twice like Rivendare does.
I think a sensible solution would be to remove the saved weapon from the Skulker when its DR triggers. Makes sense wording and flavor wise, and minimal impact on normal use outside of DR triggers (and even then, most weapons don't do anything when applied twice).
@@locogato3488 nerfing graveyard only solves half the problem, because the same happens with the umbra
The best solution would be if shadestone Skulker returned the weapon to your hand
I love how you always use the same song for the montage it cracks me up every time.
"Whoops, our bad. It was meant to be a double class "Demon Hunter/Shaman" minion."
If it works like that then I have a question
Does the skulker give a new version or an exact copy of the weapon? And if so, could you use record scratcher to create infinite mana?
No, the Necrium Blade's deathrattle is needed to reactivate the skulker's deathrattle to create the infinite loop
@@DragonZarman That's not what I meant.
The Necrium Blade creates the infinite loop yes, but if it's an exact copy then you can activate the deathrattle at will to create mana.
It's not an "Infinite Mana Loop", it's just "Infinite Mana".
looks like the exact copy based on the weapon having 1 health when equipped again
Or also the weapon that obtains a dr that triggered this game. Could make for very fast otks with mines maybe
@@ZAYKONN You won't get "Infinite" mana, because you can only trigger the DR so many times (Essentially... You can use Necrium Vial twice, Shadow of Demise once, Necrium Blade and HP once and then kill it once to get full mana refresh 5 times and that's it)
Even more limiting is the fact that you need Snowfall in play to get the double weapon back, so you have to do those mana refreshes within the 3 turns its active.
But to answer your original question, it literally takes your current weapon as is and gives it back as is. So you could get back stacked Record Scratchers or Counterfeit Blades with a specific DR attached or buffed up Kingsbanes.
finally Cold Rise is back
Dane and co. always keeping Hearthstone interesting
Why is everyone talking about Umbra getting banned? The most logical conclusion that comes to mind is changing the elemental deathrattle to read "and lose this deathrattle" at the end, a bit unintuitive with the minion being dead but it fixes the problem in the best way possible
stuff like test subject can be looked at as precedent
:instead of restricting mind sear to enemy minions they straight up reworked the older obscure card
If the weapon deathrattle hits the beetle by chance, especially at the start, does the combo not work?
And why does the weapon need to be at 1 durability?
@@naru3849 it doesn't need to be at 1 durability and if it misses the elemental then yes the combo doesn't start
Just barely, I think. Here's what the action queue looks like:
1) The elemental battlecry activates *before* it enters play, destroying the weapon and gaining a deathrattle.
2?) The weapon's deathrattle activates (twice, thanks to the aura). I'm not entirely sure of this, but my understanding is that this happens *before* the elemental exists as a minion, meaning that at this moment the beetle is the only available target. Beetle's deathrattle triggers (twice).
3) Elemental enters play as a deathrattle minion. Umbra sees this and activates its deathrattle.
4) Weapon replaced (twice in a row). Each weapon after the first triggers a new deathrattle.
5) Repeat 2 (twice), but this time there's a second minion in play. Basically, flip two coins; for each head, gain 6 armour, for each tail, repeat step (4).
The first time step 5 occurs there's a 25% chance of gaining 12 armour and ending the loop, but the number of coinflips increases by at least two each time, so the odds of losing rapidly decreases.
(It's also possible I'm wrong about summoning order - if step 2 is queued until after the elemental exists, the first two weapon deathrattles aren't wasted on the beetle and the odds of starting the loop increase to 93.75%.)
He started that first combo at 9:08 and gave up on letting it complete at 9:27. Wonder how long you'd have been stuck there. Good background video for a podcast though ;P
You can tell a video's gonna be good when Cold Rise is credited in the description
Is it possible for the weapon to miss the elemental and hit only the beagle for the first set of death rattles? Would the combo end immediately? What’s the odds on that
Jeah what re the odds.
The weapon's deathrattle goes off a minimum of four times. Depending on the exact sequence the events are processed, the first two might occur before the elemental is counted a minion in play, in which case there's a 25% chance that the loop will immediately fail, or after, in which case the chance of failure falls to only 6.25%.
So what's the winning condition for this deck?
Dane: winning?
I wonder if you can make a non-crashing version of it.
Have you tired to force quit (Alt+F4) and log back in to re-join the game in progress? Since that skips the animation, it would give an indication of the state of the game after this exponential loop. Maybe the server cannot keep up as well, who knows?
Would you be able to kickstart the chain if you just had the minion and both weapons in hard?
Play the first weapon turn 4, turn 5 location, turn 6 minion into second weapon and hero power.
I think some of the confusion comes from what the 1 drop is doing. When the 1 drop “eats” the weapon it is NOT triggering the deathrattle, umbra is the whole reason the loop can start. Because the recorded weapon can be spat back out without killing off the 1 drop and the 1 drop re-equips the necrium blade to you multiple times which breaks your necrium blade to then trigger him to re-equip necrium blade etc etc. in a loop.
nah m8 ur confused. as long as you have double deathrattle up, umbra isn't required. when you rush the 1 drop into something, it throws up two weapons, breaking one. that one weapon breaking triggers the deathrattle on the minion twice to throw up two weapons again, this time breaking two (because you still have one of the others equipped), which triggers the minion four times, causing four weapons to break, causing 8 triggers on the minion, causing 16 weapons, 32, 64, 128 and there's your infinite loop.@@imaforceanature7297
@@imaforceanature7297 Umbra is not the "Whole reason" the loop can start.
Any DR activator will start the loop since a single forced trigger of the Skulker will make it spit out 2 weapons and begin the loop.
So, equipping and breaking a second weapon would work. Necrium Vial would work. If you generated some of the Hunter cards that trigger a friendly DR those would work too.
the easiest fix seems to be to make Umbra trigger before battlecries
but sheesh, rogue, DR and breaking stuff one way or another, that's a classic trio
I don't get it? What happens if the first weapon triggers the beetle deathrattle twice and not the elementals? Does it just fail lol
yeah it fails
There are some really weird bugs this patch, one of them is that if you play a minion your other minions can't attack
What if you add a Leper Gnome (or a Frog, funny one time slow spitting animation)?
Honestly, I missed that “skip time” tune, when it hits it hits 👌
I wonder if using a damaging deathrattle alongside the loop would work in your favour. Depends on if the game lets the loop play out and end in a tie, or if, like in some other trigger chains, the moment one player dies, the loop ends. Cause you could just make this an OTK with Leper Gnome if it works that way and you'd be farming wins instead of ties.
He mentioned that Leper Gnome doesn't work. It doesn't matter if the opponent's health is negative, the game ends in a draw before it resolves the death.
@@Darkprosper Yeah I misheard what he said at the start. I though he said you could use any deathrattle, not just the beetle, kinda missed where he said the game will end in a tie anyway.
How does something like this get past QA? What do they smoke there?
Dane's the hero Hearthstone deserves, but not the one it needs right now
Well it was nice knowing umba. This will prolly not end well.
It's Graveyard that's the real issue when combined with Necrium Blade
You can also do this by playing a second blade
Easiest way to fix this is to make Graveyard only work with minion Deathrattles, like Rivendare.
This is the mode where anything goes: any card you’ve ever collected is still valid!
Could this be used to just time out/lock some bots out of the queue?
It has been. FIVE. MINUTES.
It was 19 by the time he'd had enough
@@Yewtewba You know what I mean.
14:45 just another copy of the Blade is sufficient.
The fix is easy, just make the elemental actually give the weapon back and lose the deathrattle
the reason this isn't being discussed much is because losing a deathrattle upon activating it is irrelevant on 99% of the cases since the minion is dead anyways, but I also believe it's the best solution and frankly with how many ways we have to trigger deathrattles without killing minions it's not even that confusing for new players once they realize cards that activate them exist
Easier fix - make the death rattle return the weapon to hand.
@@GameGod77 that's what I mean
The best solution would be if shadestone Skulker returned the weapon to your hand
Or return back but only once a turn....
Should this somehow work with Kingsblade btw?
Dane Dance Party videos are my favourite.
2^(small indie company)
There are times where the digital format of Hearthstone and the limitations of the game really do hurt it, imo. In MtG, for instance, if you perform an infinite combo, you can simply tell the opponent across from you what is going on. As long as they don’t have a way to interrupt it and the combo is deterministic, they will simply say “fair play” and go to the next game.
Never really was a big fan of how animations can ruin combos. I get they need a limit, but the fact that tournament play has no ways to adjust this or shortcut combos always felt very poorly implemented.
I agree. Especially in games like MTG where they KNOW there are infinite combos, as they have been played and demonstrated on tabletop like you said. There has to have been someone who took that into consideration when developing the games. This is an issue in other digital card games as well and I've yet to see one address it properly. It's weird, since it's a friggin' known issue. No one wants to sit there for an hour+ watching card animations and twiddling their thumbs.
Did someone try this with naval bomb or other deathrattle card 4 mana enemy draw 2 cards?
What is the music selection?
Cold Rise
Isn't there between a 1/3 and a 1/4 chance that the loop stops? Umbra makes elemental spit 2 weapons, one weapon breaks and triggers twice but both triggers hit the beetle?
When the combo is played the minion unequips the weapon and the equips 2 causing 1 break. The weapon break death rattle triggers twice because of the doubling effect. At this point the weapon deathrattles can either target the beetle or the new card. If the beetle is selected twice then there is no loop and this happens 1 in 4 times. Even if you roll bad, if you have your hero attack for the turn and the weapon is on 1 durability, you can attack in for another 3/4 chance to loop. Technically, even if you successfully hit the new card and the next batch of triggers hits only the beetle, the loop can stop. If a big block of text is hard to parse, look into "finite state machines" and you can whip up a little diagram to help follow the potential looping.
in that case, you could swing and try again which would lower the odds of it missing to a 1/16
In that first board, yeah. If both of the two triggers of necrium blade off of the first doubled deathrattle re-equipping miss the elemental (a 1/4 chance of happening), then jt would before it spirals out of control.
@@elijahmoore9414 no yeah that's why I said it's not quite 1/4 but a liiitle more likely, which is actually quite surprising, how unreliable it really is (without the weapon swing which I didn't account for). But at the end of the day this is technically not even supposed to happen. What's even more surprising is how Dane manages to break the game with every little change that occurs in it. They used to put people in Blizzard jail for that...
what have you done lad
from :08 to :27 in your bottom left clock goes by for the combo :D. nice little 20 minute wait of talking with stream chat lol
if you deathrattle in the game too many times you deathrattle IRL
How does the deathrattle trigger hit both deathrattle minions and not randomly miss the one on the right?
It's exponential
There is a chance with two DR minions on the board that the first couple of triggers might miss the elemental and hit the other, but once the loop starts, it's essentially guaranteed to hit the elemental at least once, which is all it takes to go "infinite."
This combo is such an obvious one that I can't believe Blizzard didn't test this.
Why the second one crashed it?
Since you only need the weapon, graveyard and the skulker. The skulker pops trading into a minion, but since he had another one the weapon deathrattle only has the one minion to trigger and that just loops indefinitely.
@@FarAway959 ah, graveyard :)
Dane no they’ll nerf kobald again
Obligatory small indie company
Call me a mad man, but if seeing the number go up is your thing you can have this combo as a “I guess we’ll tie then” button instead of losing, second combo is easier and cheaper so it could slot in a death rattle rouge.
can yuou do this with the selfish shellfish, i'd love to see the fatigue counter
Dane you are truly a HS wizard
Ah yes. I can't wait to see armor rogue in ladder.
Leper gnome build time
Ah graveyard,broken since day one
Platebreaker stocks are up! xD
At this point they need to hire Dane to playtest anything they release for Wild. He always finds the gamebreaking bugs on day 1 LUL
Infinite loop of cards working as intended is not a bug and a tie is the proper resolution.
@@davidy22 right, the fact that it crashes server side isn't a bug 💀👀
@@ModestMousekateer well technically it's not a bug, just an issue with the servers
They don't care about wild enough to think about these interactions
Hostage suicide pact rogue
Armor rogue is back baby!
Classic Dane.
Did he break Hearthstone again?
imagine trying it with dancing swords...
They'll nerf Necrium Blade to save their little new card, I hope you're proud of yourself !
DDOS Priest vibes
I think snowfall could be a candidate.
blizzard jail 2 electric boogaloo
This is awesome
There is a cap to this, 100%.
Because the game first does all calculations, and *then* it shows the resulting animations.
If the calculation was a truly infinite loop without any caps the game will crash before it can show a single animation.
So yeah, it will end at some point, and given that this combo exponentially gets bigger that must mean there is a manual cap in there somewhere.
My heart.
Also the velarok deck is bugged :(
At the rate Dane keeps getting Hearthstone cards banned, there's not gonna be any left soon.
Just be careful and don't get banned for exploiting Blizzard's incompetence
Bug bounty Dane. Force A tie
Also I guess the 1 mana guy is gonna be banned instead of Umbra.
I hereby dub this deck "Tyrogue".
Just hope they dont kill umbra for this combo, like just make it so she only triggers whose original cost is 2 or more or something like that instead of just making her 10 mana and nothing else
Happy kingsbane rogue was the victim
It's sad to see that the only interesting angle for this card is quite literally broken.
Imagine you are at diamong 5 trying to get to legende and you get gated by dane with this 😂
Control priest for rogue 😅
deathrattle give a zero cost copy of the weapon stolen
beans
I dont get it. it should do nothing if the umbra came to the board first, it should return a weapon that it's still.not stolen so do notjing. and then the battlecry would steal it.
Battlecries I believe always go off before aura effects like Umbra's.
@@monkaWGiga So then the battlecry triggers twice, cause it should be : steal weapon -> return it with the deathrattle , the end. am i stupid?
@@nikhtzatzi No you're not stupid it's just a very odd interaction.
@@nikhtzatzi pay closer attention to the board. hint: it's in the little thunderbolt icon above dane's hero
@@nikhtzatzi The way it works is Battlecry steals weapon > Umbra activates its deathrattle and returns it > Snowfall Graveyard makes the deathrattle trigger twice so it returns it twice > 2nd weapon overwrites the first breaking it and triggering its deathrattle (Twice because Graveyard) > Triggers deathrattle on minion giving 4 weapons back > 2nd/3rd/4th weapon overwrites the previous one breaking it and triggering its deathrattle > Repeat loop infinitely.
The main confusion will come because when the minion's deathrattle triggers and it gives the weapon back, it doesn't lose its deathrattle/stolen weapon. So it can infinitely give back the stolen weapon.
Try it with mine XD 4 damage to enemy hero
1:43 You're basically saying guys do it & waste everyone's time 😉 As Dane fans we are obligated to do this, we have no other choice 😏
My heart :'(
wow
get mckz'd
😂❤
Small indie company KEKW
Have fun in Blizzard Jail