What's amazing is there was a human alive at that time in history that could imagine and understand this device in his mind and was able to have a skilled metal worker build it. He had to be a genius on a level almost unimaginable today. How many people at that time in history were capable of understanding this information and make use of it.
Heck, Tom, how many are alive today that can understand it? A few thousand? Compared to the 8 Billion others on the planet it's a drop in the bucket. I think the truth is that many civilizations have risen and fallen on this Earth in the millions of years it has supported life. Some more advanced, some less. All forgotten unto history. Occasionally we get a vague clue - an out of place artifact we cannot easily explain.
What's amazing is how people today think we are far more intelligent than the ancients ever were. That's so frustrating to me, I think and always have thought that they had technology forgotten over the millenia that is in certain aspects superior to what we have today. Just look at their structures? Might be ruins today but they're still standing, hundreds of years after they've been built. Can we say the same about our building skills today? Let me answer that, NOPE!!!!! I've been in construction and in the military my whole adult life, was a military brat, we as a society on some levels are far less superior than the ancients, we might have electricity and cell phones lmao oh wow lol but look what they had and were able to achieve. We seem to think just because we built rockets and landed on the moon that we are by far way more intelligent and superior and I think that thought is what's going to do us in. Been to the moon but can't seem to go back, yut ok 👌
it's really remarkable. However there must have been predecessors, and the slow advantment like most other technologies, as is normally the case. That makes this idea of lost technology even more worrying as to how prevelent it was. Some are out there to been seen ( eygptian and acient masonry) , some leave evidence; the sea fairing polynesians, but so so many have been lost to time.
When my Dad died I inherited a watch that was one minute fast each day. I calculated that at the end of a month it would be 30min fast and after a year it would be 6hrs fast and that meant after 4years it would be one day fast, just like a leap year adding one day. I became fascinated with understanding calendar systems and the Antikythera mechanism and how to create a perfect calendar using modern technology. Of course I thought “why not make every day just one minute longer or shorter?!”. Of course that would lead to our clocks being 6hours out after one year and show midnight at noon after two years. It is incredible to attempt to fathom how the calendar was envisaged let alone could be perfected. I learnt a lot from this video. 🙏😎
this guy has no idea what he,s talking about. mesopotamia, was nothing, before it absorbed ur, sumer. they, had all the knowledge, given to them by the ''gods'', aliens,, . to understand this, you need to watch viper tv, sumerian tablets.. its a world wide thing, . all megalithic structures world wide, were built by our creators, after the flood, bricks were used, no tech. so, if your still here & not laughing.. how the hell did ancient man, know about the difference between cog counts, gears. &, how the hell did they smelt, & produce the gears. with, copper chisels. that mechanism, is far older than they say, remember, to build this, you need to know about precession , which is 24,000 yrs long,, thats a long time to sit around watching stars.. not happening, they were given the knowledge, & the machine.. or, machines, as they were world wide.. why are there gold & etched in stone, jet planes, helicoptors, subs, made of gold, & wood models. thousands of yrs older than recorded history. . brian foerster. praveen mohan . dttv . everything inside me. the facts by how to hunt. watch them..
Solution: 13 month year each with 28 days like the phases of the moon......month. The new system was derived purely for economic math that allows them to bill you 3 times in 60 days for services and other market clearing situations that they use to become billionaires. Its a deep rabbit hole with this calendar stuff. We are way further ahead than we think we are.
I just woke from a dream wherein I was desperately trying to stop this lecture from playing in my head. I fell asleep on another video and woke up with this guy's voice driving me crazy. In the dream I had dismantled three radios and a TV and trudged through mud and swamps with a shovel handle in my hand emanating this guy's voice to my old friend's house for help with my strange hallucination. His voice cut right through everything into my dream. I don't even know what he was saying but it drove me right out of my head in dreamland. Powerful droning voice he has. For the good or for the bad I don't know.
Go back to bed and tell your dreams that you are no supposed to remember them, they bother you and they are being rude. (Actually, you realized that somebody was lying to you. To simplify, you were looking for answers and realized that other people can be dangerous to the course you set yourself on. Tell yourself that it is inherent nature or the course that you set for yourself to realize that ignorance is a contagious illness.) I like listening to Milo Rossi, because I know that it isn't possible for an archeologist to ever, actually, be right. Everything archeology does is conjecture. (Astronomy was so much a science that it could be misinterpreted as religion in most of the Islands in that Corinth area. If it is a large stone building, the PHds at the college get more money to decide it is a temple. Then Constentine "saw God" and burned everybody's bible except for his own.) It's an annoying lie that repeats itself...BTW the Egyptians had chariots with wheels, oxen and horses.
It's disappointing to read all the nasty comments as well as the easy criticism by people who haven't done anything by sit on their asses their entire lives. Nicolaos Alexopoulos makes extremely valid points and provides hints to those who are willing to study these topics that subtend technological thought. Michael Wright spent 25 years reverse engineering this fabulous mechanism, a device that contains features that predate Kepler's understanding of celestial motion by more than 16 centuries. It took years for a group of foremost experts to piece this thing together and here we have proof that ancient Greeks had advanced technology that was to vanish off the face of civilisation for centuries. There are lessons to be learned here, one of which is that all that you take for granted, the advancement of your civilisation being one, it can all collapse. People who make noise and puff their chests about how great their nations are, should pause for a moment and reflect upon this: It could all go extinct in a relative flash. Another lesson is that the human mind - some human minds - is capable of reverse-engineering complex systems in the universe. Finally, it seems to me that the excess pride we have in believe the hegelian idea that reason progresses through history, leads us astray: The ancients were as advanced or more than we are, in some specific areas of knowledge, or in the way they organized their knowledge. Maybe 2000 years from now, most of what makes our pride today will be nothing but undecipherable ancient artifacts for future archeologists. Given the number of flat earth ignoramus and people incapable of connecting technique with philosophy roaming the face of the Earth, it would not surprise me.
I've no idea what comments you're commenting on but, considering that this is RUclips, I can imagine what sort of idiotic bullshit they contain. You make some very valid points here too.
Haven't you been sitting on your ass since you were born Philippe Panzani, maybe you know other ways of sitting without using your ass ? I want to know ...The disabled have no choice but to sit on their asses from the very bloody beginning to the very bloody end of their lives, pls think twice before you open your mouth next time. Too much bla bla bla during the presentation.
Very good talks. Thanks to all involved. I have been musing on the idea that the baked clay cuneiform Middle Eastern clay tablets will outlast our recorded media. I have followed the Antikythera device since before the internet. It boggles my mind that the device goes from a totally unknown to a working model of at least a part of the device. Very many thanks to all who have worked on the device.
Would it not be a complete mind **** that if time travel would become possible and a person was such a fan that he decided to take a copy of the mechanism back to Ancient Greece because you wanted to thank the man who invented the thing. Then, asking around, he was told that that the only man they believe could have constructed it lived on the other side of the country. So he gets on the boat, mechanism in hand, which wrecks. Then, just before his death, he goes pale as he looks down at his hands holding the mechanism, only to realize he was the one who brought the machine back as the boat sinks at the exact spot the original mechanism was found in the first place?…
Before anything I should mention that mr Wright was excluded from the team which some years ago decoded the Antikythera Mechanism... He, during this research, refused to provide data (x-rays, etc) of his own research. His resentment caused a brand new and unique x-ray machine to be constructed exactly for this task, which contributed the most into decoding this remarkable Mechanism. *We should probably thank him for this.* Now, Too many stereotypes even from the beggining of this presentation... "A misarable place to be, just a few sheep and annoying people..." Later Mr Wright as he presented a picture of the artifacts found in the shipwreck, he spoke about how you had to kick bits and pieces on the floor to get to the mechanism (which was never *ever* the case), but he forgot to mention that when this picture 20:33 was taken, Greece was either destroyed after the 1897 Greco-Turkish liberational war, or it was in war during the 1st Balkan wars (1912 - again liberational war), or again in war during the 2nd Balkan wars (right after the 1st one - again liberational war), or in WW1 (1914-18), or during the 2nd Greco-Turkish war (1918-1922 - a liberational war), or during the interwar period which found Greece completely devastated because Greece's allies during the 2nd Greco-Turkish war used it as a spear against the Turks but then left it alone to deal with them, OR it was during WW2 (Greece 1940-1945 - a liberational war) and yet they found the will to pack up burry each and every artifact in the Museums (a *titanic* task in a very short time) not to be found by the Germans or the Italian or the Bulgarian invaders (Greece suffered a tripple invasion and occupation during WW2), or during the Greek civil war (1945-1949) which the British imposed on Greece ............ and so, yes many things were *slightly disorganized* during these +50 years, but worry not bcoz the British looters were going around Greece filling their Museums with Greek artifacts in order to "preserve" them. Mr Wright also forgot to mention that the prestigeous and way ahead of its time British Museum, which looted the Parthenon Sculptures and refuses to this day to kindly give them back to Greece where they belong (arguing of them being "their property"), he *forgot to mention that around the same period when the picture he presente was takend, this prestigeous British Insitution BRUSHED with iron brushes the Parthenon Sculptures in order to ...clean them.* The world and societies progressed and some people need to overcome *their resentment* and avoid to use 18th and 19th century stereotypes for whole nations, stereotypes which muchmore even then werent true.
I think this device is lost on so many. This device is so intricate in its design. The sum of all of the working parts coming together in perfect harmony. If you stop to think that if one cog or tooth is wrong, it all is for not. We may never know the true meaning of what this device could do but it's still magnificent if nothing more was ever learned about it.
It’s purpose is well understood however some believe this may have been a novelty owned by a wealthy owner. It’s provenance is uncertain who benefited from its use, and was likely loot lost to history until now, or perhaps was being moved for the owner to a new location, no one knows yet.
@@sebastianbache8862 the people who made it and designed it and obtained the knowledge to create it are the most significant in the evolution of human society
Absolutely wonderful! I loved every second of it! Couldn't get enough! Screw the negative comments. Those people have not spent time educating themselves on the subject matter or they'd be biting their tongues. Evidence that ancient knowledge of the heavens and known planets exists in the way of the tests of early grammar school students in early America! Most adults would fail those tests miserably today! Yet children knew it as common knowledge in the early years of this country! Ancient people often mimic things in the heavens laying out stone works in direct mirror to the heavens above. It is said the complete lay out of ley lines all over Europe was once simply a map of the heavens laid out on the ground so that people walking didn't even need to be able to see the stars to navigate they simply found the corresponding stone works on the ground and followed those stones representing the stars in the heaves because they knew what was above was below as above so below and so on! Again common knowledge.
Your "common knowledge" wasn't even common in the past. Most people did not get educated past the 8th grade and the numbers of college-educated were pretty small.
Great talk and reconstruction of the original device by Michael Wright (Dr?). My only gripe was the point about lack of subtlety of the device. I agree for a greek engineer, the device probably was not too complex but I think the complexity lies in the fact that someone brilliantly thought "how can I take this data from Babylonians, convert it into abstract planetary computations and then program it in a mechanical device". That is breathtaking.
@footballcoreano it's amazing by ancient standards but it's not too complicated for modern manufacturing at all, they're large hand cut gears in a wooden box. The mathematics is more complicated than the mechanism.
@@alexanderSydneyOz Time is the thing it computes. Knowing too much of that deranges us. Look at the floating dot of population, and the rest spins into time stamped equilibrium. They used eclipses, and knew the equations of population growth. We have more precise measures with built-in Malthusian delusion. Down to genetic variability for seed stock being bought for patents, we are asking for it.
totally awkward but absolutely knows his stuff A higher intellect that's totally patched into his subject with enthusiasm and an awkward willingness to share his knowledge. Thanks, chap
This is a truly enjoyable cast of speakers. b&w tv under the pyramid. And the gentleman’s passion, curiosity and honesty that reconstructed the replica. Really really great! Thanks for posting.
In one of Richard Feynman’s books, (Nobel prize winning physicist, and amazingly prescient person) he recalls visiting a museum in Greece with his wife, and while browsing through the great works of art, fine statues, and beautiful Urns, he came across a stunningly complex device. Fascinated, he asked more about it. It was so complex that he thought it might have been a fake !
What are you talking about, IIRC there are no others (except possibly a modern reconstruction)...IIRC these devices were written of but no others are known to have survived.
For some reason, and I can't put my finger on it, but as I listened I kept waiting for Mr Wright to say “Good evening. I’m Doctor Emmett Brown and I’m standing here in the parking lot at Twin Pines Mall. It is Saturday morning, October 26, 1985, 1:18 A.M. and this is temporal experiment number one. Please note that Einstein’s clock is in precise synchronization with my control watch. Marty, Marty, Great Scott!"
A brilliant explanation. To have been denied advancement because his Head of Department was not interested in an exacting explanation in the form of the machine Antikythera. Wonderful Lecture. Perfect explanation and brilliant mind.
And then they don't let him have his proper amount of time to receive some applause for all the time he invested in this. Gotta stay on schecule and "ok, we're done with you, now get outta here". I'm sure they didn't mean it, but just an example of thinking a lot about calculations but miscalculating the human "machine" we think of as....the heart.
The person in control of the cameras is infuriating, why are they focusing on the speaker when there's what he's talking about on the screen, zoom into the screen or put an overlay on out view.
Regarding the comment made at 1:40:44 about the Church preventing a film from being displayed in Spain. The movie "Agora", directed by Alejandro Amenabar, with Hypatia's character played by Rachel Weisz, was indeed displayed in the country. It was released in Spain before any other country in the world, except for the Cannes Film Festival in France and the Toronto International Film Festival in Canada. It had a box office of ~20M USD in Spain, being #1 in theatres for 4 weeks in a row in October/November 2009. This was an unexpected and surprisingly uninformed statement in an otherwise very interesting talk. It makes me wonder about the rigour of other statements made by the speaker.
Right. Spain has been long becoming a non-religious secular country. As early a 1977, two years after Franco´s death, there was a big deal of anti-religious movies and theater being presented for the general public in Spain.
Yup, many errors in this video....I've only watched a few minutes and there have been numerous errors in addition to the really annoying presentation and ginormous ego. Watch 'the other guy' it's much better, more accurate, and adds what has been learned in the 6 years since this was recorded. The Antikythera Mechanism: shocking discovery...'
The problem isn't the numbers being prime; the two largest gears on the mechanism each have 223 teeth, which is a prime number of teeth. The problem is practical engineering. How do you construct a gear with 1151 teeth, let alone 2302? With 462 : 289, the gear train could be constructed from 4 gears with teeth counts of 21, 22, 17, and 17 (462 = 21 * 22, 289 = 17 * 17) providing a very compact way to to achieve the desired ratio.
Doing a little checking, this gear ratio (462 : 289, error of 4.81 * 10^-6) is the best you can get for trains of gears with 60 or fewer teeth. If we allow up to 83 teeth, then 2075 (25*83) : 1298 (22*59) has about half the error (2.14 * 10^-6). That isn't a Babylonian ratio however.
11:30 “Jacques Cousteau didn’t find very much didn’t do very much” ?? He only found coins and artefacts that dated the clock accurately along with other artefacts that gave evidence of the journey of the vessel and it’s probable starting point.
@@bobbydorou8438 Open-circuit-demand scuba is a 1943 invention by the Frenchmen Émile Gagnan and Jacques-Yves Cousteau, but in the English language Lambertsen's acronym has become common usage and the name Aqua-Lung (often spelled "aqualung"), coined by Cousteau for use in English-speaking countries
Yep difficult to listen to. BUT the key take away is that the technological minds and skills existed 2000 years ago … then unfortunately either got lost OR not distributed and applications of the technology (gear making for precision) took until almost 1000 years later. Excellent problem solving display
I am quite old in this and returning from a long journey. I am thankful to revisit Mike Edmonds research during the 2020 American elections. I met this research prior to meeting Dr. Batchen, Dr. Mead, Barrow, Howe, Craven, et sum. University of New Mexico, M,A, in History of Photography.
Whew...listening to Michael Wright's uhhh simultaneously, multi-trained thoughts that you can almost see banging around in his head was a bit of a challenge but overall this is Good stuff!
You know I don't know anything about him apart from what I learned from this video. What I have gathered though is that humble and understated are the last words I could come up about him. His presentation is so bad that it is hard to tolerate because of the way he kind of stammers I mean going uh uh uh um ummm? He has accused another scientist of stealing his project the one he told about it first. Then he basically called the guys he 2 minutes later thanked for providing the missing info. The people he called the Antykithera Group. Someone else has done it and has said that the genius of this device is the fact that it is ancient more than 2000 yrs old and just the precision of this thing and the construction of such a complex device with so many gears and in such a package which in fact amazing going by the fact that we consider us technologically advanced but they made such a kind of advanced device 2000 or more years ago. I was surprised when he started off with self praise and dissed the other notable researchers who have worked on it through the years from its discovery and with their limitations. I wonder how you can call him humble.
he is almost intolerable to listen to...he has to keep watching what he says...he can't come out and say the earth is a stationary plane and all the host of heaven go around us,but that is exactly what he must describe...that's why most of his mumbling is happening.. 101:30 bye bye heliocentrism aka sun worshipping
nothing last forever, can you imagine how many devices similar to this must have come to pass but have been lost over millennia? I think technologies like this go back much much further however they have been reclaimed by earth and time
It’s really so important to visit the collection at this museum. If your interested in things that help, you must visit. I’ve been once, and will likely go again.
Please forgive the pettiness of this comment, because Michael Wright is brilliant. I wish however he could get his speech under better control, a more relaxed enunciation. He is so bright he seems to be saying six things at once. Slow down and breathe, Professor! We have to listen to you for an hour.
Wooow!!!! @Avatar.....Do you realise how stupid your comment is?!!! Your comment won't magically change a video that was filmed several years ago.....duh. Your comment is worthless just like your brain.
AoE, Instead of telling Wright to (retroactively, BTW:) speak in a manner more convenient to your own purposes, you might more profitably adjust your hearing to a manner more equable with his. That is after all an actual definition of "enlightenment", as I'm sure you must be aware.
And then he is rushed off stage because he apparently took too much time. This is why he is rushing through his talk He wouldn't have gotten in all of the pertinent points if he'd spoken slower. The fact that it's on YT means, well, go back and listen to parts over again, or slow down the speed a bit. (I hated how he was rushed off stage because of "time".)
My catch is that the instrument is an astrolabe to swifly calculate a chart, something that takes houres by hand and was constructed in ancient India where they already used gears made of bronze and sold to the Greeks, and was later ordered by a Roman astrologer. Furthermore, back then all scientists were astrologers first. Modern scientists don't want to acknowlegde that given fact but this went on into the middle ages and even Newton and his collegues in those days practised astrology.
I'm happy to see this got re-posted. I watched it the other night, and wanted to share it with friends, but it had been pulled down the next day. Great bit of knowledge here.
To grasp the fabrication of this device within the objects timeframe is an enigma to textbook thinking. If you look into the minds of the “gifted” who grace our planet every so often you open the door to the realm of this computer’s engineering.
As a mechanical engineer I am staggered at the Antikythera device. It's not about it's subtlety or precision. It's ALL of the technology needed to make it. They had to invent a lathe to make the circular plates BEFORE they could even cut gears in them. They had to invent a way to machine precise rods and tubes and probably bushes to hold them in place. And EVERYTHING had to be made really tiny so it didn't weigh a ton or take a steam engine to drive it. (Babidge's engine took a few HP to turn it...) And this bloke can't even find the right button to press on his hand-piece! I bet he just went down the shop and bought the bits of brass that he needed. I bet he didn't invent the technology to make the brass first! I'm just staggered...!
What amazes me every bit as much as the conception and construction of the mechanism, is the accuracy of the astronomers and mathematicians who had measured the motion of the planets to the point of accounting for not only their elliptical orbits, but the length of the procession of the ellipses. The slot + pin mechanism used to allow for that is, for me, the most incredible part of the device, but my brain was already blown by the fact that such tiny discrepancies over cycles that lasted decades had even been detected. And even working within a geocentric model, they get everything right.
I already posted about this but I'll post it again, here: The thing is, you don't come out of the gate, as a civilisation, with this level of tech. It is fairly safe to assume that many less sophisticated devices had preceded this one. Basic calculators and calendars and such, which were expanded upon and developed. They call this "the first computer" but a more accurate name would be "the earliest known example of a computer". If future civilisations are sifting through the stuff we left behind, and find a ZX81, I hope they have the imagination to entertain the possibility of a lost Atari 800, and a Casio pocket calculator before that, etc.
Actually they had no sophisticated technology or lathes to make the mechanism. Cogs were made by hand forging plate and cutting out circles with a chisel as they had no saws or files. Pins and shafts had to be made by hand as well!
So, does anyone know anything more about Michael Wright's comment about not having been involved in the more sophisticated imaging of the device, and actually being excluded from access to the results? One would think that he having made a model of it already, that he would also be the ideal person to involve.
If this mechanism had reached it’s destination, the world may well have been completely different. It may have been a one of a kind demonstration model.
It's not likely it was one of a kind, one does not simply create this in a single attempt. More likely there were many prototypes and other similar machines. Probably all lost to the sea or recycled by now.
On another video about the AM, someone commented that the Roman empire was the cause of the dark ages... After listening to the guy at the end, I wholly agree.
Horrible recording of the presentation. Why do we need to see the speaker and him trying to use the device to advance the slides? Why not put up an entire slide for the viewer?
The bigger mystery in my mind is what happened to the civilizations that created all of the technology in ancient times. Discovery after discovery tell us that the ancient civilizations from all points of the compass had advanced technology thousand of years ago. Then at some point it’s seems the board was reset, they disappeared with their technology and we all started over. What happened?
The culture of ancient Greece is literally the most well described civilization in history. No big mystery what happened to them. They just became modern Greeks.
@Rob Arthur Yep.. My theory is a meteor/comet/asteroid smaller than the dinosaur killer but large enough to reset civilization struck earth. Or a large prolonged volcanic eruption, which would explain why many ruins are buried under yards of dirt.
If anyone has any sway with the sponsor of this video (Autodesk), tell them that they need to bring back sales of single licenses rather than subscriptions - they are KILLING the little guys in the business.
@@LeeGee Yeah... I don't know what the motivations are for this sort of thing, but it's making it harder and harder for the little guy to earn a living. I just picked up TurboCAD Pro Platinum a few weeks ago for $1400 bucks, and from what I've seen so far (I'm still training with it) it seems like a more powerful program anyway. So I say humbug on Autodesk. Their decision has just earned repeat business for one of their biggest competitors.
@@oldmanfromscenetwentyfour8164 That's how they taught us in college, and I can surely break out and dust off the old drafting board, but when a customer demands a change, and now you've got to spend a week drawing a new perspective elevation by hand, the $1400 is a bargain!
We have a false idea about the reality of "ancient time" as savage and rudimental despite the vast amount of artifacts art buildings left on this planet....research about Tartaria and Hindu Temples for starters 😊
Hanniffy Dinn It more than likely proves that Revelation chapter 20 is where we are right now and the millennial kingdom of the Messiah reigning on earth with all of His technology and architectural wonders all over this world have already happened and the elite controllers have been trying to scrub and hide all this truth for quite a while now-but everyone is figuring it out and waking up to the hidden catastrophes and civilization that was here no less than 200 years ago. Do some research and find out that America was not discovered in 1492. It has always been occupied by many races. All history/timelines are faked during this Little Season deception
I can agree with almost all that Michael Wright has to say. My only point of contention is in the overall system accuracy he cites. In one of the papers about the AM, is is shown that if a Mars pointer is implemented as suggested (using eccentrics) the pointer can be as much as 23 degrees (!) off at the first and second stations of a Mars retrograde. It is to be emphasized that the cause of this is not the mechanics or the conversion of observation to mechanics, but in the model that the Greeks of that date used. There were discrepancies, most notably in the retrograde motion, which Ptolemy ironed out with his introduction of equants in the '''Almagest''' in 150 CE. That reduced the errors in computations (using either his or Copernicus' system) which could not be improved upon until Kepler introduced elliptical orbits. Wright is correct in his error estimates if he's comparing positions to the model used at the time, with its known errors compared to reality.
+puncheex2 Nobody knows for sure what exact model the Greeks of that date used. Your speculation is based on the claim that Ptolmey was the one who introduced the equant. This is not supported strongly by evidence--- the idea for the epicycle and deferent are referred back to Appolonius, who was writing in the golden age of Heliocentric astronomy, during the Hellenistic scientific era, and I believe that the equant is due to Appolonius as well, as Appolonius has full heliocentric astronomy, so he knows exactly what's going on. Ptolmey seems to reference Appolonius for the whole deal anyway, equant and all. Introducing an equant in a gear system is trivial (that seems to be the whole point of the equant)--- you make the circle rotate off-center, the nonuniformity is much like the moon anomaly in the video, which is done using a slitted gear. For all we know, the equant system was simply introduced to build such models of the motion, starting from the heliocentric system. The heliocentric system was clearly well accepted by Archimedes, who was a reader and associate of Appolonius, it is referenced in "The Sand Reckoner" as the model Archimedes intends theoretically to fill with sand. It is best to see the Ptolmeic system as taking a mechanical model approximating a modern heliocentric system, with either off-center circular orbits with an equant/equal-area law, or it is possible even actual modern elliptical orbits, then interpreting this mechanical model obtusely as if it were what is actually going on in the sky. This is the view indicated by the decline of Hellenistic science promoted by Russo. It is not necessary to assume elliptical orbits or universal gravitation to accept that Appolonius derived the equant and deferent/epicycle from an equant-orbit heliocentric model. This is well supported by the existing evidence, more so than the idea that Ptolmey was able to do anything original. Just to correct the video--- Russo does not claim that the decline of Greek science was due to religious fundamentalism, but due to Roman conquest, as it happened in the period 200 BC to 30 BC, during the Roman conquest, before the rise of Christianity. The decline was due to the Roman system, not to Christianity, but of course Christianity didn't help much either.
Given the metal work,the gathering of moving parts that were fitted as though made with CNC technology,(people were still chipping stone and HAMMERING metal,not precision machining it)the theorized use of the thing(who is to say orbits&paths of haven't changed in 2000 yrs or that the view the machine was to calculate was from another point of use,not earth)in a time when people had a different perspective on the heavens,couldn't one consider influence from another world??? Like somebody might have traded his incredibly girlie,framy breasty daughter for said gadget?? Got rid of the baggage&picked up some bling as it were!!!!!!!!Just a farm kid thinkin out loud, Enjoy the day
Actual measurements on the gears show that their accuracy is consistent with competent hand work. Michael Wright built his instrument with techniques available to Greek craftsmen. In one video on YT he demonstrates the making of a gear of (I think) 41 teeth; he estimates it would take a competent Greek perhaps 45 minutes to do it, using chisel, hammer, corner file and a compass. What is really amazing is that they did it without screws. It has been demonstrated that the inaccuracies in the AM would have swamped some of the more delicate prediction mechanisms, such as solar and lunar eccentricities. That makes it none the less marvelous, and doesn't at all require some Deus Ex from another planet.
What other devices in this same “clockwork” manner have yet to be uncovered from this time period and earlier? Generally, I think it is safe to assume that most technological innovation stems from militaries. I wonder if there is some sort of bronze clockwork repeating crossbow lost somewhere in the Aegean? Reall
I still remember the day they came to take Acad off the machine and forced me to work on Terramodel software that none of the firms I delt with used, except one engineering firm that seemed to spend alot of time with the executive director and was a a software dealer for Terramodel. Long story short Terramodel is a pretty bad ass C.A.D. system but AutoCad is the unarguable leader.
so your saying they had autocad, thousands of yrs ago to work out the alignments, cog counts, tooth counts, how many cogs to achieve a certain rotation, ect ect.. not happening in there life time.. then, you need to know metalurgy, so they dont wear out in 6 months.. &, have some understanding of precession.. to boot.. not happening in greek times.. its bs.. theres pure iron pillars thousands of yrs old, no rust.. what metal composition was used to make the cogs. &, what machine cut the teeth.. theres core drill holes ,upto 8", dia, in granite, diorite, with a turn rate of 2mm per cut.. harder than diamond or anything on earth..
Michael Holly makes several mistakes in his presentation about the AM. Yes, it is bronze. And Michael Wright is probably the best mechanical expert on the device. "It's a geocentric model." That's a null statement; it uses neither pre-Ptolemaian nor Copernican models to perform its calculations; it uses observational data reduced to cycles that can be mimicked by gears. Later: I need to explain this better. There are two uses of the terms geocentric and heliocentric. The one in use in this video is not the common one concerning the 14th century debate between Copernicus and Aristotle/Ptolemy. In this video it merely means the viewpoint of the mechanism user, and in this sense the AM is geocentric: it assumes the user is on the Earth looking up to the heavens, as opposed to an orrery user who has a viewpoint outside any body. The the debate geocentric (Ptolemian) vs. heliocentric (Copernican) the two systems are math models which yield the same outcomes "It takes into account leap year". No, it doesn't. It uses the Egyptian calendar common in its time, a 365 day year. It is constructed so that the discrepancy can be adjusted out manually (as Wright details whe discussing the front display), so its designers knew the Egyptian calendar needed adjustment, but that is manually done, not part of the "works". There are actually 5 dials on the backside; the two large, spiral shaped dials and three small ones. The other large one he does't mention (but seems to be pointing at with his laser) is the Metonic dial which brings together the lunar and solar calendars. The Olympic dial is one of the small ones, inside the Metonic dial; it has a four year cycle which says which city hosts the pan-Hellinic games in the chosen year. Indeed; thank goodness for Michael Wright.
puncheex2 Thank you! For giving us all more info than the dinosaurs! We're sick of this crap! We want the whole truth and nothing less. Not finding it here on this video, but thanks to you there's a bit more! : )
Your welcome. I dig deep and run across little bits hidden here and there. Will always post. Even if it sounds crazy. Friend told me yesterday of talking to her brother. Over 20 years ago I told a bunch of info they had never heard. Her brother called me nuts and I let him have it! Told him when he finally wakes up, he wont be calling me nuts. You'll be calling it "your ignorance"! He laughed in my face. 20 + years later, subjects came up and my sister let him have it! DO YOU REMEMBER SHE SAID THIS AND THIS AND THIS AND THIS....? He said YA, Cowering sheepishly. And she is dead on right, isn't she? YA....And you scoffed and belittled her and told her to her face that she was crazy, right? YA, Who's the FN idiot now? (Speechless). I get this all the time. If I tell things ahead of time of course it sounds insane...till it happens! Peace, Q-PID
Actually the Heliocentric system theory existed in antiquity too. Check out Aristarchus from Samos, and Eratoshenes, who were also believers that the earth is spherical. The later also measured its circumference.
1:34:30; Nicolaos Alexopoulos is absolutely right with his statement about religious fanaticism. Has Nicolaos Alexopoulos also well considered that a generation coming after us will condemn about us, because of the material fanaticism widespread among us today? It seems to be a characteristic of the human species that cannot be overcome.
Here's that video in better quality - Virtual Reconstruction of the Antikythera Mechanism - Michael Wright & Mogi Vicentini (2009) ruclips.net/video/IT0gXa1ZrnA/видео.html
I Might Watch That Far, I Cant Get Past The Jeb Bush-ish 👀. And That Completely Adds Resistances To Free Flowing Thought. Oh Prayers Answered, Please DONT Return To The Host.
Michael Wright is a treasure! I love what he says about not hyping this too much because there's not much mystery as to why it wasn't done at the time, just that it WAS done then and that we lack evidence of anything of the sort for centuries afterwards. The knowledge was there, bronze was there, and e.g. Archimedes seems to have used gearing already. I like to think that the existence of this instrument is due to someone very much like Michael Wright back in the day: someone who was practical, and had access to the astronomical observations. Sadly Wright is treated as if he's marginal to the understanding of this, but he doesn't need to hype it since he knows he won't get more money from some institution.
There are primadial structures off the coast off NZ. During the last iceage (around10,000vyr ago) 90percent of the Zealand's contenetal shelf was dry land.
Many have raised the question about whether the AM was heliocentric or geocentric. In science, the difference between the two is a question of accuracy in predicting planetary locations, and up until Kepler, they were entirely equivalent. The man to put the quietus on geocentrism was not Copernicus, but Galileo, who observed the phases of Venus in his telescope, something geocentrism does not predict or explain, but heliocentrism does. The AM is geo-centered - that is, its viewpoint is of a person on the surface of the Earth looking up to the heavens. A human observing the motion of the planets cannot do that from the sun; the local climate forbids it. It's funny - the mechanism declares the heliocentric theory by using the movements of the planets around the sun to model the view; it doesn't use epicycles. Perhaps that was thought to be a "shortcut" by the designer, but it adopts the correct interpretation in any case. Inaccuracies in the mechanism arise from the incorrect planetary theory used which did not allow for Ptolemy's later equant refinement. Also, many of the things it tries to model (like the moon's elliptical orbit) are swamped by the inherent inaccuracies of the hand-built mechanism and triangular gear teeth.
I think that who ever made it was clearly aware of both theories and observations supporting the Heliocentrism being things that clearly negating Geocentrism as a viable description of our surrounding reality. However, since the Ancient Greek religion is dogmatic in describing the universe as geocentric, and art enforcing this as the key concept of the entire system of institutionalized religion is everywhere in their cities and on the device itself. It wouldn't be much of a tool for adhering to the calendar and observing the religious festivities if it didn't express this somehow, preferably so that it being geocentric seems obvious to anyone who happens to superficially observe it being used or presented somewhere. The Greek and Roman relationship to religion and "God" wasn't based on a belief in there being an actual superior power or personality that is God or that his personality is actually a thing. But rather the entire thing was basically a folklore describing the human condition and worshipping of the _idea_ of an ideal man. And they were fully cognizant of the the fact that no such thing existed anywhere, but in their own imaginations. So, investigating and making observations that confirm Heliocentric modelling as accurate and thus confirming it as the one that actually describes surrounding real world phenomena wasn't quite the same kind of a herecy as Galileo's "It spins after all" to the pope but would've lead to some awkward discussion with anyone trying to celebrate the traditional Greek holidays and seeing a system that spins the planet's around the Sun in someone's hands for example...
I think because of it is a calender, that movement of stars and moon not act as simulation on actual location of celestial body on heaven. But I think its function was like some sort of arrow of a clock with fix timer. Because of the speed of the gear was fix, each star will move at certain speed and pointed at different symbol, that symbol might also represent angle, location as per view from earth each month. They might still don't care either geocentric or holeocentric.
The geocentric model however does account for everything we see in the sky. As a matter of fact …more so in more ways than one of the heliocentric model.
@@puncheex2 First off all….today’s Big Bang Standard lambdaCDM Model is a further enhancement of the Copernican heliocentric model. So basically the Big Bang is the Heliocentric Model. From its inception the Big Bang Model has faced countless physics obstacles that had physicists apply “boot strap” fixes in order to maintain its viability. The boot strap fixes have multiplied so much with all the new observations that the “boot straps” have turned seriously ugly and now are not at all maintaining the model’s integrity but now discrediting the model. Here’s a few such problems and “boot straps”. The Big Bang theory is missing 96% of the theory! Dark Matter and Dark Energy! Less than 4% of matter and energy we see is the visible universe we see! Yet with over 50 + years of searching…nada! Without these “boot straps” the model is dead! The heliocentric model is dead! However…with the geocentric model ….it totally and very credibly works more precisely as the geocentric model has no need for any of these “boot straps” A spinning universe accounts for the physics we see that the proponents of the heliocentric model attributed to Dark Energy and Dark Matter. Other earlier boot straps also like “inflation” are not required.
it's really remarkable. However there must have been predecessors, and the slow advantment like most other technologies, as is normally the case. That makes this idea of lost technology even more worrying as to how prevelent it was. Some are out there to been seen ( eygptian and acient masonry) , some leave evidence; the sea fairing polynesians, but so so many have been lost to time.
Why do we assume than ancient romans or Greeks with the ability to build ships that large and navigate the oceans were not able or willing to collect what would have been ancient artefact's of their time themselves? By doing so we are also making assumptions that the people of that time didn't have the common-sense to plan ahead by building heavy objects in close proximity to the destination those objects were intended to be. Making such assumptions of sophisticated complex civilisations of the past seems ludicrous from my perspective. If we are interested in archaeology and ancient ruins and collecting ancient artefact's from around the world, are we not assuming that we are the only civilisation through history who found a value in doing such thing?? Making such assumptions sounds more so like we are blinded by our ego.
And, no, it isn’t. You still have a partial day at the end of the year- which throws the calendar off by a tad more than a quarter of a day every year. Moreover, it would make the solstices, and equinoxes as well as other important days, fall on different days on different years.
Nooo way. Just slow down, and think it over. 13x28? An odd number multiplied by an even number will always give an even number. 365 is an odd number, which means, it can't be the result of the operation 13x28. Clear?
@@RyboBBurn There are two Different orbital periods for the moon. One is the time it takes to go around the earth once, Called its Sidereal Period. That is 27, days, 7 hours and 43 minutes (plus a handful of seconds down to a few decimal places ). But that is not the month we perceive because in one month the Earth moves approximately 1/12th of its way around the sun, changing the geometry of where the moon is in relation to the sun. That is, from earth a Full Moon is when the Moon is in exact opposition to the sun on the opposite side of the earth from the sun, and that means that from full moon to full moon requires the moon to move an additional 30 degrees in its orbit, to line up with the 30 degree shift in Earth’s position relative to the sun. That is its Synodic Period- which is 29 days 12 hours and 44 minuets, ( plus some fractional seconds. ) The moon has no even divisibility with the motion of the earth’s axial tilt to the sun, which defines our equinoxes and solstices- and hence the actual length of the year, which is 365.2422 days ( so- not even a full quarter day, which is why the extra day added on a leap year is still not enough to keep our calendar aligned with celestial motions ) This should give everyone a rough idea of how challenging it is to come up with a calendar that does not get out of sync with the sky. Our ability to discern these slight mismatches has evolved with our ability to keep time and to make accurate measurements of what we were observing.
Michael Wright is the right man, in the right profession, at the right time! He's brilliant. This is important information for our understanding of history and our relationship to it.
lmao I told a cop on Maui once .. who was obviously not liking white people .. which isn't unusual at all .. anyway his name was officer Wong I told him... you been wanting to be wite all your life but .. you are Wong! accept it! ..... it wasn't a great day for me ...
Everything happens for a reason. We live in a matrix with a tad bit of free will. Its probably no cooincidemce that he was on earth at this time. He probably invented it in his previous life.....but time is not linear except in our universe/dimension.
@@thornyturtleranch6152 ~ We are born into a matrix of deception, the owners of the world, own incorporated governments, corporations, institutions, including religious and the world assets, it's a pyramid of wealth and power. See the back of the One Dollar Bill, it has a pyramid topped with the all-seeing-eye, (the eye of Lucifer). Lucifer rules the matrix. -- Our job is to align ourselves with truth, God himself is truth and light with no darkness in him. Truth will lead us the Jesus Christ.
We are not being told about our ancient past. He had to get help from advanced civilization. Those little brass gears has to have precise teeth and precise distance between them
In another RUclips video by another group of researchers on this mechanism, they have an alternative display of the large dial that does not use pointers, but instead has many concentric rings, each of which moves independently, to display the various front-panel information that is sh0wn with the pointers in this lecture. They read the pieces of the description/instructions on the mechanism and noted that it used the Greek word for "circle" a lot and think that this ring-shaped form of dis-play is what it means. Other than that, their work more-or-less gives the same results as sho0wn here.
One only rarely has the opportunity to hear a genius display the working of his mind. That was what Mr. Wright was doing. His mild complaints about the device were merely his expression of his disappointment, in the same nature as the Greeks, at the lack of perfection. He denies the remarkable nature of the device because, TO HIM, so much of it seems elementary now. He has the good fortune to be the product of several thousand years of the reconstruction of the knowledge the ancients had, which was lost in the passage of time... and his own considerable genius.
greeks didnt invent sht,, they aquired it, from previous civilizations, thousands of yrs before greeks were a stain..do some research. other than mainstream bs..
I would suggest the difference between Michael Wright's time and the time from your Iphone is the difference from the solar time at Michael Wright's home and GMT from your Iphone.
We have no idea how old this device may be, we just know when it was taken to the deep. So let's hypothesis for a moment, for the Greeks to have had such a mechanism is very telling but throws up more questions than answers, for to have reached this level of accuracy must have required many years of trial and error, how many years did it take? How long did the Greeks work on this kind of mechanism before they plumped on this working model, 100, 200, 300? or did they manage to reach that level of accuracy by sheer chance? We're always told that the ancients were in no way as sophisticated or as technologically advanced as we are today, but how many of us would survive without electricity, or without running water? Problem is that we aren't that sophisticated or as technologically advanced as we may believe, the Greeks have shown us that they had their own technology, different as it may be from ours, but a technological advancement nonetheless and to have been able to have created such a mechanism proves that, it also proves they were capable of creating the tools to create the mechanism as well, for no matter how long it took to create the mechanism it would have taken twice as long for the tools to make it. If this was only found because it happened to be on a ship that sank, one wonders what else there used to be that have now completely vanished and why there is no reference to such objects in the historical record, were they scrubbed, did our ancestors think it better for us to believe the Greeks were, no matter how philosophically advanced, that they were technologically backward. The horse does not leave the gate fully trained from birth, it takes many years of training and honing that horse's skills along with an experienced rider, so how come the Greeks are now shown as doing just that, leaving the gate already at that stage, what else are we missing, what else has disappeared, what else did they have? Funny how in our blind arrogance, we still believe the heliocentric model even when presented with, perhaps, the most accurate of geocentric mechanisms, which is the only thing that can explain why, the same stars in the sky can still be mapped as they were thousands of years ago even though we are led to believe that we're hurtling through space, yet somehow all the stars appear to be hurtling exactly in line with our solar system route!
So interesting. I often wonder what the speakers are referring to in their presentations. Dear Editors, perhaps more of the slides and less of a person talking might be more informative.
All I see here is a navigation tool that was needed for fishing or exploration of other regions that enabled them in the ability in the returning as safely as possible for them as they could figure out with what they had found out bout what had been of the sure of the changes that were on hand as of a visual that could be mobily calibrated to the changes in their positions' changes.
I'm curious as to how Archimedes determined where to position the slot displaying lunar apogee and perigee. Wouldn't he have needed an extremely accurate clock?
@@pool2587 Whoever built the Antikythera machine was well capable of making an accurate clock. But at that time no one had thought about a power supply, such as weights or coils spring. Therefore no need for an escapement was ever identified. It would have been a small step had the technology not some how been lost!
It's easy to play down the complexity of this device in our times, when knowledge has been passed down. I believe it was much harder to make 2000 years ago,than Michael Wright gives credit. Think of the first computers 50 -60 years ago how bad they seem compared to what we have now.
"..there's nothing subtle about the mechanization of it.. if you find it incredible then you need to adjust your set.." _______ "ΤΟN ΚΑΚΟ ΣΟΥ ΤΟN ΦΛΑΡΟ" (Archimedes)
Definitely. It would require a machine with higher resolution than most can afford, but the components could easily be manufactured in a number of metals, as well as bronze.
What's amazing is there was a human alive at that time in history that could imagine and understand this device in his mind and was able to have a skilled metal worker build it. He had to be a genius on a level almost unimaginable today. How many people at that time in history were capable of understanding this information and make use of it.
Heck, Tom, how many are alive today that can understand it? A few thousand? Compared to the 8 Billion others on the planet it's a drop in the bucket. I think the truth is that many civilizations have risen and fallen on this Earth in the millions of years it has supported life. Some more advanced, some less. All forgotten unto history. Occasionally we get a vague clue - an out of place artifact we cannot easily explain.
Most people back then weren't worried about what was on netflicks at night, so they thought...
What's amazing is how people today think we are far more intelligent than the ancients ever were. That's so frustrating to me, I think and always have thought that they had technology forgotten over the millenia that is in certain aspects superior to what we have today. Just look at their structures? Might be ruins today but they're still standing, hundreds of years after they've been built. Can we say the same about our building skills today? Let me answer that, NOPE!!!!! I've been in construction and in the military my whole adult life, was a military brat, we as a society on some levels are far less superior than the ancients, we might have electricity and cell phones lmao oh wow lol but look what they had and were able to achieve. We seem to think just because we built rockets and landed on the moon that we are by far way more intelligent and superior and I think that thought is what's going to do us in. Been to the moon but can't seem to go back, yut ok 👌
it's really remarkable. However there must have been predecessors, and the slow advantment like most other technologies, as is normally the case.
That makes this idea of lost technology even more worrying as to how prevelent it was.
Some are out there to been seen ( eygptian and acient masonry) , some leave evidence; the sea fairing polynesians, but so so many have been lost to time.
The beginning of 4 alphabets?
When my Dad died I inherited a watch that was one minute fast each day. I calculated that at the end of a month it would be 30min fast and after a year it would be 6hrs fast and that meant after 4years it would be one day fast, just like a leap year adding one day.
I became fascinated with understanding calendar systems and the Antikythera mechanism and how to create a perfect calendar using modern technology.
Of course I thought “why not make every day just one minute longer or shorter?!”. Of course that would lead to our clocks being 6hours out after one year and show midnight at noon after two years. It is incredible to attempt to fathom how the calendar was envisaged let alone could be perfected.
I learnt a lot from this video. 🙏😎
this guy has no idea what he,s talking about. mesopotamia, was nothing, before it absorbed ur, sumer. they, had all the knowledge, given to them by the ''gods'', aliens,, . to understand this, you need to watch viper tv, sumerian tablets.. its a world wide thing, . all megalithic structures world wide, were built by our creators, after the flood, bricks were used, no tech. so, if your still here & not laughing.. how the hell did ancient man, know about the difference between cog counts, gears. &, how the hell did they smelt, & produce the gears. with, copper chisels. that mechanism, is far older than they say, remember, to build this, you need to know about precession , which is 24,000 yrs long,, thats a long time to sit around watching stars.. not happening, they were given the knowledge, & the machine.. or, machines, as they were world wide.. why are there gold & etched in stone, jet planes, helicoptors, subs, made of gold, & wood models. thousands of yrs older than recorded history. . brian foerster. praveen mohan . dttv . everything inside me. the facts by how to hunt. watch them..
Solution: 13 month year each with 28 days like the phases of the moon......month. The new system was derived purely for economic math that allows them to bill you 3 times in 60 days for services and other market clearing situations that they use to become billionaires. Its a deep rabbit hole with this calendar stuff. We are way further ahead than we think we are.
I just woke from a dream wherein I was desperately trying to stop this lecture from playing in my head. I fell asleep on another video and woke up with this guy's voice driving me crazy.
In the dream I had dismantled three radios and a TV and trudged through mud and swamps with a shovel handle in my hand emanating this guy's voice to my old friend's house for help with my strange hallucination. His voice cut right through everything into my dream.
I don't even know what he was saying but it drove me right out of my head in dreamland. Powerful droning voice he has. For the good or for the bad I don't know.
Your dreams are a great example of how general daily life makes me feel like, except the 'voice' is in place of human beings
Go back to bed and tell your dreams that you are no supposed to remember them, they bother you and they are being rude. (Actually, you realized that somebody was lying to you. To simplify, you were looking for answers and realized that other people can be dangerous to the course you set yourself on. Tell yourself that it is inherent nature or the course that you set for yourself to realize that ignorance is a contagious illness.)
I like listening to Milo Rossi, because I know that it isn't possible for an archeologist to ever, actually, be right. Everything archeology does is conjecture. (Astronomy was so much a science that it could be misinterpreted as religion in most of the Islands in that Corinth area. If it is a large stone building, the PHds at the college get more money to decide it is a temple. Then Constentine "saw God" and burned everybody's bible except for his own.)
It's an annoying lie that repeats itself...BTW the Egyptians had chariots with wheels, oxen and horses.
It's disappointing to read all the nasty comments as well as the easy criticism by people who haven't done anything by sit on their asses their entire lives. Nicolaos Alexopoulos makes extremely valid points and provides hints to those who are willing to study these topics that subtend technological thought. Michael Wright spent 25 years reverse engineering this fabulous mechanism, a device that contains features that predate Kepler's understanding of celestial motion by more than 16 centuries. It took years for a group of foremost experts to piece this thing together and here we have proof that ancient Greeks had advanced technology that was to vanish off the face of civilisation for centuries. There are lessons to be learned here, one of which is that all that you take for granted, the advancement of your civilisation being one, it can all collapse. People who make noise and puff their chests about how great their nations are, should pause for a moment and reflect upon this: It could all go extinct in a relative flash. Another lesson is that the human mind - some human minds - is capable of reverse-engineering complex systems in the universe. Finally, it seems to me that the excess pride we have in believe the hegelian idea that reason progresses through history, leads us astray: The ancients were as advanced or more than we are, in some specific areas of knowledge, or in the way they organized their knowledge. Maybe 2000 years from now, most of what makes our pride today will be nothing but undecipherable ancient artifacts for future archeologists. Given the number of flat earth ignoramus and people incapable of connecting technique with philosophy roaming the face of the Earth, it would not surprise me.
Philippe Panzini The Greeks got all of their knowledge from the Khemetic Empire (that's the so-called Africans)
I've no idea what comments you're commenting on but, considering that this is RUclips, I can imagine what sort of idiotic bullshit they contain. You make some very valid points here too.
i think ancient technology even doesnt damage the earth's environment as much as modern technology. :)
Haven't you been sitting on your ass since you were born Philippe Panzani, maybe you know other ways of sitting without using your ass ? I want to know ...The disabled have no choice but to sit on their asses from the very bloody beginning to the very bloody end of their lives, pls think twice before you open your mouth next time. Too much bla bla bla during the presentation.
Phil Pa
Mr. Wright is one of those rare natural intellects. Smarter than some of my old profs, that's for sure.
Very good talks. Thanks to all involved. I have been musing on the idea that the baked clay cuneiform Middle Eastern clay tablets will outlast our recorded media.
I have followed the Antikythera device since before the internet. It boggles my mind that the device goes from a totally unknown to a working model of at least a part of the device. Very many thanks to all who have worked on the device.
Would it not be a complete mind **** that if time travel would become possible and a person was such a fan that he decided to take a copy of the mechanism back to Ancient Greece because you wanted to thank the man who invented the thing. Then, asking around, he was told that that the only man they believe could have constructed it lived on the other side of the country. So he gets on the boat, mechanism in hand, which wrecks. Then, just before his death, he goes pale as he looks down at his hands holding the mechanism, only to realize he was the one who brought the machine back as the boat sinks at the exact spot the original mechanism was found in the first place?…
poopi
Or even better I time travel to just before your conception and instead impregnate your mum, now you are me and I apologise for this comment
Before anything I should mention that mr Wright was excluded from the team which some years ago decoded the Antikythera Mechanism... He, during this research, refused to provide data (x-rays, etc) of his own research. His resentment caused a brand new and unique x-ray machine to be constructed exactly for this task, which contributed the most into decoding this remarkable Mechanism. *We should probably thank him for this.* Now,
Too many stereotypes even from the beggining of this presentation... "A misarable place to be, just a few sheep and annoying people..." Later Mr Wright as he presented a picture of the artifacts found in the shipwreck, he spoke about how you had to kick bits and pieces on the floor to get to the mechanism (which was never *ever* the case), but he forgot to mention that when this picture 20:33 was taken, Greece was either destroyed after the 1897 Greco-Turkish liberational war, or it was in war during the 1st Balkan wars (1912 - again liberational war), or again in war during the 2nd Balkan wars (right after the 1st one - again liberational war), or in WW1 (1914-18), or during the 2nd Greco-Turkish war (1918-1922 - a liberational war), or during the interwar period which found Greece completely devastated because Greece's allies during the 2nd Greco-Turkish war used it as a spear against the Turks but then left it alone to deal with them, OR it was during WW2 (Greece 1940-1945 - a liberational war) and yet they found the will to pack up burry each and every artifact in the Museums (a *titanic* task in a very short time) not to be found by the Germans or the Italian or the Bulgarian invaders (Greece suffered a tripple invasion and occupation during WW2), or during the Greek civil war (1945-1949) which the British imposed on Greece ............ and so, yes many things were *slightly disorganized* during these +50 years, but worry not bcoz the British looters were going around Greece filling their Museums with Greek artifacts in order to "preserve" them.
Mr Wright also forgot to mention that the prestigeous and way ahead of its time British Museum, which looted the Parthenon Sculptures and refuses to this day to kindly give them back to Greece where they belong (arguing of them being "their property"), he *forgot to mention that around the same period when the picture he presente was takend, this prestigeous British Insitution BRUSHED with iron brushes the Parthenon Sculptures in order to ...clean them.*
The world and societies progressed and some people need to overcome *their resentment* and avoid to use 18th and 19th century stereotypes for whole nations, stereotypes which muchmore even then werent true.
I think this device is lost on so many. This device is so intricate in its design. The sum of all of the working parts coming together in perfect harmony. If you stop to think that if one cog or tooth is wrong, it all is for not. We may never know the true meaning of what this device could do but it's still magnificent if nothing more was ever learned about it.
It’s purpose is well understood however some believe this may have been a novelty owned by a wealthy owner. It’s provenance is uncertain who benefited from its use, and was likely loot lost to history until now, or perhaps was being moved for the owner to a new location, no one knows yet.
@@sebastianbache8862 the people who made it and designed it and obtained the knowledge to create it are the most significant in the evolution of human society
Absolutely wonderful! I loved every second of it! Couldn't get enough! Screw the negative comments. Those people have not spent time educating themselves on the subject matter or they'd be biting their tongues. Evidence that ancient knowledge of the heavens and known planets exists in the way of the tests of early grammar school students in early America! Most adults would fail those tests miserably today! Yet children knew it as common knowledge in the early years of this country! Ancient people often mimic things in the heavens laying out stone works in direct mirror to the heavens above. It is said the complete lay out of ley lines all over Europe was once simply a map of the heavens laid out on the ground so that people walking didn't even need to be able to see the stars to navigate they simply found the corresponding stone works on the ground and followed those stones representing the stars in the heaves because they knew what was above was below as above so below and so on! Again common knowledge.
Troy Taylor sure sounds amazing. Too excess light-pollution took so much of that common education away by eliminating their common exposure.
Your "common knowledge" wasn't even common in the past. Most people did not get educated past the 8th grade and the numbers of college-educated were pretty small.
If it’s common knowledge, shouldn’t it be more widely known?
That stoneworks bit you shared was absolutely mind blowing
@@MrStupidHead You give too much credence to modern college education.
Great talk and reconstruction of the original device by Michael Wright (Dr?). My only gripe was the point about lack of subtlety of the device. I agree for a greek engineer, the device probably was not too complex but I think the complexity lies in the fact that someone brilliantly thought "how can I take this data from Babylonians, convert it into abstract planetary computations and then program it in a mechanical device". That is breathtaking.
@footballcoreano it's amazing by ancient standards but it's not too complicated for modern manufacturing at all, they're large hand cut gears in a wooden box. The mathematics is more complicated than the mechanism.
It's brilliant. He ain't.
Modern academics dismiss their Giants of old, because they know their tech-induced inferiority.
Ancients weren't so dumb after all, eh?
@@alexanderSydneyOz Time is the thing it computes. Knowing too much of that deranges us. Look at the floating dot of population, and the rest spins into time stamped equilibrium. They used eclipses, and knew the equations of population growth. We have more precise measures with built-in Malthusian delusion. Down to genetic variability for seed stock being bought for patents, we are asking for it.
totally awkward but absolutely knows his stuff A higher intellect that's totally patched into his subject with enthusiasm and an awkward willingness to share his knowledge. Thanks, chap
17:57
“'That Ancient Greek thing'-he couldn’t say Antikythera.”
❤️
This is a truly enjoyable cast of speakers. b&w tv under the pyramid. And the gentleman’s passion, curiosity and honesty that reconstructed the replica. Really really great! Thanks for posting.
In one of Richard Feynman’s books, (Nobel prize winning physicist, and amazingly prescient person) he recalls visiting a museum in Greece with his wife, and while browsing through the great works of art, fine statues, and beautiful Urns, he came across a stunningly complex device. Fascinated, he asked more about it. It was so complex that he thought it might have been a fake !
.... And then?
I believe Feynman thought the museum was fairly ordinary, but when he saw this device it eclipsed everything else put together.
What are you talking about, IIRC there are no others (except possibly a modern reconstruction)...IIRC these devices were written of but no others are known to have survived.
@@number1bobo That is exactly what they want you to think. We are in "Truman show".
NmN Misoio 👌 oI opopooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooô ooop b
eloquence is understanding the meaning of words
so that you are precise in your pronouncements
this man speaks so beautifully
For some reason, and I can't put my finger on it, but as I listened I kept waiting for Mr Wright to say “Good evening. I’m Doctor Emmett Brown and I’m standing here in the parking lot at Twin Pines Mall. It is Saturday morning, October 26, 1985, 1:18 A.M. and this is temporal experiment number one. Please note that Einstein’s clock is in precise synchronization with my control watch. Marty, Marty, Great Scott!"
A brilliant explanation. To have been denied advancement because his Head of Department was not interested in an exacting explanation in the form of the machine Antikythera. Wonderful Lecture. Perfect explanation and brilliant mind.
Thank you Mr. Michael Wright for putting in the time and giving us an explanation of your research.
And then they don't let him have his proper amount of time to receive some applause for all the time he invested in this. Gotta stay on schecule and "ok, we're done with you, now get outta here". I'm sure they didn't mean it, but just an example of thinking a lot about calculations but miscalculating the human "machine" we think of as....the heart.
The person in control of the cameras is infuriating, why are they focusing on the speaker when there's what he's talking about on the screen, zoom into the screen or put an overlay on out view.
Yes. The production stinks. Amateurville! I'm used to the Great Courses with world class lecturers ( I'm spoiled, I admit). You get what you pay for.
They are doing it because they haven’t had doc filmmaking 101 at a community college
Nick alexopolis would say the cameraman must be a Christian. He obviously hates christianity.
Whoever did the audio is also annoying. My volume is at 1 and the guy is screaming. I cant even watch it too painful
Ask them if they are hiring im shure they could use your doctrate degree in camerology
Regarding the comment made at 1:40:44 about the Church preventing a film from being displayed in Spain. The movie "Agora", directed by Alejandro Amenabar, with Hypatia's character played by Rachel Weisz, was indeed displayed in the country. It was released in Spain before any other country in the world, except for the Cannes Film Festival in France and the Toronto International Film Festival in Canada. It had a box office of ~20M USD in Spain, being #1 in theatres for 4 weeks in a row in October/November 2009.
This was an unexpected and surprisingly uninformed statement in an otherwise very interesting talk. It makes me wonder about the rigour of other statements made by the speaker.
Right. Spain has been long becoming a non-religious secular country. As early a 1977, two years after Franco´s death, there was a big deal of anti-religious movies and theater being presented for the general public in Spain.
Yup, many errors in this video....I've only watched a few minutes and there have been numerous errors in addition to the really annoying presentation and ginormous ego. Watch 'the other guy' it's much better, more accurate, and adds what has been learned in the 6 years since this was recorded. The Antikythera Mechanism: shocking discovery...'
Yeah what on earth was he talking about? Was Spain’s biggest box office draw that year...
He was shit
Best gear ratio can also be: 2302 : 1440 and avoid prime numbers altogether, that is, count in half-days rather than full days!
The problem isn't the numbers being prime; the two largest gears on the mechanism each have 223 teeth, which is a prime number of teeth. The problem is practical engineering. How do you construct a gear with 1151 teeth, let alone 2302? With 462 : 289, the gear train could be constructed from 4 gears with teeth counts of 21, 22, 17, and 17 (462 = 21 * 22, 289 = 17 * 17) providing a very compact way to to achieve the desired ratio.
Doing a little checking, this gear ratio (462 : 289, error of 4.81 * 10^-6) is the best you can get for trains of gears with 60 or fewer teeth. If we allow up to 83 teeth, then 2075 (25*83) : 1298 (22*59) has about half the error (2.14 * 10^-6). That isn't a Babylonian ratio however.
11:30 “Jacques Cousteau didn’t find very much didn’t do very much” ?? He only found coins and artefacts that dated the clock accurately along with other artefacts that gave evidence of the journey of the vessel and it’s probable starting point.
Cousteau was one of the greatest explores in are history. Just saying.....
@Natisha Copley if your with someone you don’t trust maybe your not that smart to begin with, just saying.
But also did jacques cousteau develop or even invent SCUBA diving (SELF CONTAINED BREATHING APPARATUS)?
@@bobbydorou8438 Open-circuit-demand scuba is a 1943 invention by the Frenchmen Émile Gagnan and Jacques-Yves Cousteau, but in the English language Lambertsen's acronym has become common usage and the name Aqua-Lung (often spelled "aqualung"), coined by Cousteau for use in English-speaking countries
@@briangank7887 ????????????
Yep difficult to listen to. BUT the key take away is that the technological minds and skills existed 2000 years ago … then unfortunately either got lost OR not distributed and applications of the technology (gear making for precision) took until almost 1000 years later. Excellent problem solving display
I am quite old in this and returning from a long journey. I am thankful to revisit Mike Edmonds research during the 2020 American elections. I met this research prior to meeting Dr. Batchen, Dr. Mead, Barrow, Howe, Craven, et sum. University of New Mexico, M,A, in History of Photography.
Whew...listening to Michael Wright's uhhh simultaneously, multi-trained thoughts that you can almost see banging around in his head was a bit of a challenge but overall this is Good stuff!
Thank you Michael Wright. A humble and understated genius.
ruclips.net/video/763Yj4JIe9s/видео.html
lol at humble but a great mind
You know I don't know anything about him apart from what I learned from this video.
What I have gathered though is that humble and understated are the last words I could come up about him. His presentation is so bad that it is hard to tolerate because of the way he kind of stammers I mean going uh uh uh um ummm?
He has accused another scientist of stealing his project the one he told about it first. Then he basically called the guys he 2 minutes later thanked for providing the missing info. The people he called the Antykithera Group. Someone else has done it and has said that the genius of this device is the fact that it is ancient more than 2000 yrs old and just the precision of this thing and the construction of such a complex device with so many gears and in such a package which in fact amazing going by the fact that we consider us technologically advanced but they made such a kind of advanced device 2000 or more years ago.
I was surprised when he started off with self praise and dissed the other notable researchers who have worked on it through the years from its discovery and with their limitations. I wonder how you can call him humble.
he is almost intolerable to listen to...he has to keep watching what he says...he can't come out and say the earth is a stationary plane and all the host of heaven go around us,but that is exactly what he must describe...that's why most of his mumbling is happening..
101:30 bye bye heliocentrism aka sun worshipping
Genius? Lol
nothing last forever, can you imagine how many devices similar to this must have come to pass but have been lost over millennia? I think technologies like this go back much much further however they have been reclaimed by earth and time
It’s really so important to visit the collection at this museum. If your interested in things that help, you must visit. I’ve been once, and will likely go again.
T
Please forgive the pettiness of this comment, because Michael Wright is brilliant. I wish however he could get his speech under better control, a more relaxed enunciation. He is so bright he seems to be saying six things at once. Slow down and breathe, Professor! We have to listen to you for an hour.
Avatar of Enlightenment I agree. He’s brilliant but very hard to listen to.
I'm guessing that you are not a native British English speaker (no offence!). I have no trouble following him.
Wooow!!!! @Avatar.....Do you realise how stupid your comment is?!!! Your comment won't magically change a video that was filmed several years ago.....duh. Your comment is worthless just like your brain.
AoE, Instead of telling Wright to (retroactively, BTW:) speak in a manner more convenient to your own purposes, you might more profitably adjust your hearing to a manner more equable with his. That is after all an actual definition of "enlightenment", as I'm sure you must be aware.
And then he is rushed off stage because he apparently took too much time. This is why he is rushing through his talk He wouldn't have gotten in all of the pertinent points if he'd spoken slower. The fact that it's on YT means, well, go back and listen to parts over again, or slow down the speed a bit. (I hated how he was rushed off stage because of "time".)
My catch is that the instrument is an astrolabe to swifly calculate a chart, something that takes houres by hand and was constructed in ancient India where they already used gears made of bronze and sold to the Greeks, and was later ordered by a Roman astrologer. Furthermore, back then all scientists were astrologers first. Modern scientists don't want to acknowlegde that given fact but this went on into the middle ages and even Newton and his collegues in those days practised astrology.
I'm happy to see this got re-posted. I watched it the other night, and wanted to share it with friends, but it had been pulled down the next day. Great bit of knowledge here.
I wonder if it was reposted en toto.
To grasp the fabrication of this device within the objects timeframe is an enigma to textbook thinking. If you look into the minds of the “gifted” who grace our planet every so often you open the door to the realm of this computer’s engineering.
If the Antikythera Mechanism was so advanced, imagine what the Pro-Kythera version was!...
GROAN!!
:D
{:o:O:}
Wakka wakka!!
ba-DUM!
That’s what my Auntie Kythera said as she hit my Uncle Kythera with his own mechanism.
lol
That's what she said.lol
I thought this series was about the mechanism. Seems to be a commercial for autodesk.
don´t believe anything....
As a mechanical engineer I am staggered at the Antikythera device.
It's not about it's subtlety or precision. It's ALL of the technology needed to make it. They had to invent a lathe to make the circular plates BEFORE they could even cut gears in them. They had to invent a way to machine precise rods and tubes and probably bushes to hold them in place. And EVERYTHING had to be made really tiny so it didn't weigh a ton or take a steam engine to drive it. (Babidge's engine took a few HP to turn it...)
And this bloke can't even find the right button to press on his hand-piece!
I bet he just went down the shop and bought the bits of brass that he needed. I bet he didn't invent the technology to make the brass first!
I'm just staggered...!
What amazes me every bit as much as the conception and construction of the mechanism, is the accuracy of the astronomers and mathematicians who had measured the motion of the planets to the point of accounting for not only their elliptical orbits, but the length of the procession of the ellipses.
The slot + pin mechanism used to allow for that is, for me, the most incredible part of the device, but my brain was already blown by the fact that such tiny discrepancies over cycles that lasted decades had even been detected.
And even working within a geocentric model, they get everything right.
I already posted about this but I'll post it again, here:
The thing is, you don't come out of the gate, as a civilisation, with this level of tech. It is fairly safe to assume that many less sophisticated devices had preceded this one. Basic calculators and calendars and such, which were expanded upon and developed.
They call this "the first computer" but a more accurate name would be "the earliest known example of a computer".
If future civilisations are sifting through the stuff we left behind, and find a ZX81, I hope they have the imagination to entertain the possibility of a lost Atari 800, and a Casio pocket calculator before that, etc.
Look up the clickspring channel. He builds in both conventional manner and un-conv. Its brilliant and can teach further.
Actually they had no sophisticated technology or lathes to make the mechanism. Cogs were made by hand forging plate and cutting out circles with a chisel as they had no saws or files. Pins and shafts had to be made by hand as well!
em diar Geo IS the model
You can’t help but wonder what lead up to this Intricate machine
So, does anyone know anything more about Michael Wright's comment about not having been involved in the more sophisticated imaging of the device, and actually being excluded from access to the results? One would think that he having made a model of it already, that he would also be the ideal person to involve.
It was political. Someone makng those decisions was threatened by him and pushed to keep him out. This happens far too often.
If this mechanism had reached it’s destination, the world may well have been completely different. It may have been a one of a kind demonstration model.
It's not likely it was one of a kind, one does not simply create this in a single attempt. More likely there were many prototypes and other similar machines. Probably all lost to the sea or recycled by now.
the controllers always reset the system. we all had free energy but that was taken.
research mud flood and tartaria and the aether
@@mstrikesback168 No one cares about your nutty conspiracy theories.
19:40 Gears from the Greeks 1:17:56 Nicolaos 1:36:13 Archimedes inventor of integral calculus
But he is wrong about the date and Archimedes....but kudos that you actually were able to watch and hour and a half of this awful presentation.
rotating levers
Not just used for Olympics, but for war... Dark nights bright nights when to attack or set up defences
Precisely. It was one of those "state secrets" and it was designed by ancient Military Engineers.
On another video about the AM, someone commented that the Roman empire was the cause of the dark ages... After listening to the guy at the end, I wholly agree.
The plundering and sacking of other cultures? Yes ...
the Bible.
There are submerged cities everywhere.
Jesus Christ. I am the alpha and the omega. I am the light. I am not of this world.
Is there a better video of these lectures. I'd like to see the images they are showing on the screen. It almost takes the excitement out of the video
this video changed my life at this very moment
make you realise the earth is geocentric??
OMG! this damn thing begins at 10mins in!
Horrible recording of the presentation. Why do we need to see the speaker and him trying to use the device to advance the slides? Why not put up an entire slide for the viewer?
It is always a dead giveaway of an amateur editor or videographer
@@GOLDVIOLINbowofdeath at the computer history museum
@@kf9926 Nonprofits always are cheap
This guy reminds me of the professor from the movie “Back to the future” I kept waiting for Michael J. Fox to pop up on stage at any moment 🤣🤣🤣
Would have been great to have seen the 1984 autocad screen shots in the video.
No joke! So annoying when talks dont show the dang slides!
The bigger mystery in my mind is what happened to the civilizations that created all of the technology in ancient times. Discovery after discovery tell us that the ancient civilizations from all points of the compass had advanced technology thousand of years ago. Then at some point it’s seems the board was reset, they disappeared with their technology and we all started over. What happened?
See Graham Hancock. "Magicians of the Gods"
The culture of ancient Greece is literally the most well described civilization in history. No big mystery what happened to them. They just became modern Greeks.
@Rob Arthur Yep.. My theory is a meteor/comet/asteroid smaller than the dinosaur killer but large enough to reset civilization struck earth. Or a large prolonged volcanic eruption, which would explain why many ruins are buried under yards of dirt.
0:00:00 John Hollar??
0:03:20 Michael Hawley
0:04:20 Jonathan Knowles
0:09:35 Michael Hawley
0:14:38 Michael Wright
ME SIENTO ALEGRE Si Si
🙏🏻
If anyone has any sway with the sponsor of this video (Autodesk), tell them that they need to bring back sales of single licenses rather than subscriptions - they are KILLING the little guys in the business.
All the software corporations are doing it. There'll be few freelancers left, which will suit them (and in the UK, HMRC).
@@LeeGee
Yeah... I don't know what the motivations are for this sort of thing, but it's making it harder and harder for the little guy to earn a living. I just picked up TurboCAD Pro Platinum a few weeks ago for $1400 bucks, and from what I've seen so far (I'm still training with it) it seems like a more powerful program anyway. So I say humbug on Autodesk. Their decision has just earned repeat business for one of their biggest competitors.
@@LeeGee
agree!
@@lawrencestanley8989 $1400 for software? What happened to Drafting and Mechanical Drawing?
@@oldmanfromscenetwentyfour8164
That's how they taught us in college, and I can surely break out and dust off the old drafting board, but when a customer demands a change, and now you've got to spend a week drawing a new perspective elevation by hand, the $1400 is a bargain!
Very impressive research! Incredible to think that someone was able to put this together in ancient times.
It's like finding an iPhone in the titanic. This existed before telescopes etc. So it proves ancient aliens basically.
We have a false idea about the reality of "ancient time" as savage and rudimental despite the vast amount of artifacts art buildings left on this planet....research about Tartaria and Hindu Temples for starters 😊
Hanniffy Dinn It more than likely proves that Revelation chapter 20 is where we are right now and the millennial kingdom of the Messiah reigning on earth with all of His technology and architectural wonders all over this world have already happened and the elite controllers have been trying to scrub and hide all this truth for quite a while now-but everyone is figuring it out and waking up to the hidden catastrophes and civilization that was here no less than 200 years ago. Do some research and find out that America was not discovered in 1492. It has always been occupied by many races. All history/timelines are faked during this Little Season deception
+
@@hanniffydinn6019
Sorry, it doesn't prove that in any way, shape or form. Accept that there were smart and gifted humans 5000 years ago.
One turn of the knob equals 72 years makes me think it is a device for aligning megalithic structures. To send important messages through the ages
Wow, that is a great theory.
I can agree with almost all that Michael Wright has to say. My only point of contention is in the overall system accuracy he cites. In one of the papers about the AM, is is shown that if a Mars pointer is implemented as suggested (using eccentrics) the pointer can be as much as 23 degrees (!) off at the first and second stations of a Mars retrograde. It is to be emphasized that the cause of this is not the mechanics or the conversion of observation to mechanics, but in the model that the Greeks of that date used. There were discrepancies, most notably in the retrograde motion, which Ptolemy ironed out with his introduction of equants in the '''Almagest''' in 150 CE. That reduced the errors in computations (using either his or Copernicus' system) which could not be improved upon until Kepler introduced elliptical orbits.
Wright is correct in his error estimates if he's comparing positions to the model used at the time, with its known errors compared to reality.
.
+puncheex2 Nobody knows for sure what exact model the Greeks of that date used. Your speculation is based on the claim that Ptolmey was the one who introduced the equant. This is not supported strongly by evidence--- the idea for the epicycle and deferent are referred back to Appolonius, who was writing in the golden age of Heliocentric astronomy, during the Hellenistic scientific era, and I believe that the equant is due to Appolonius as well, as Appolonius has full heliocentric astronomy, so he knows exactly what's going on. Ptolmey seems to reference Appolonius for the whole deal anyway, equant and all.
Introducing an equant in a gear system is trivial (that seems to be the whole point of the equant)--- you make the circle rotate off-center, the nonuniformity is much like the moon anomaly in the video, which is done using a slitted gear. For all we know, the equant system was simply introduced to build such models of the motion, starting from the heliocentric system.
The heliocentric system was clearly well accepted by Archimedes, who was a reader and associate of Appolonius, it is referenced in "The Sand Reckoner" as the model Archimedes intends theoretically to fill with sand. It is best to see the Ptolmeic system as taking a mechanical model approximating a modern heliocentric system, with either off-center circular orbits with an equant/equal-area law, or it is possible even actual modern elliptical orbits, then interpreting this mechanical model obtusely as if it were what is actually going on in the sky.
This is the view indicated by the decline of Hellenistic science promoted by Russo. It is not necessary to assume elliptical orbits or universal gravitation to accept that Appolonius derived the equant and deferent/epicycle from an equant-orbit heliocentric model. This is well supported by the existing evidence, more so than the idea that Ptolmey was able to do anything original.
Just to correct the video--- Russo does not claim that the decline of Greek science was due to religious fundamentalism, but due to Roman conquest, as it happened in the period 200 BC to 30 BC, during the Roman conquest, before the rise of Christianity. The decline was due to the Roman system, not to Christianity, but of course Christianity didn't help much either.
Given the metal work,the gathering of moving parts that were fitted as though made with CNC technology,(people were still chipping stone and HAMMERING metal,not precision machining it)the theorized use of the thing(who is to say orbits&paths of haven't changed in 2000 yrs or that the view the machine was to calculate was from another point of use,not earth)in a time when people had a different perspective on the heavens,couldn't one consider influence from another world??? Like somebody might have traded his incredibly girlie,framy breasty daughter for said gadget?? Got rid of the baggage&picked up some bling as it were!!!!!!!!Just a farm kid thinkin out loud, Enjoy the day
Actual measurements on the gears show that their accuracy is consistent with competent hand work. Michael Wright built his instrument with techniques available to Greek craftsmen. In one video on YT he demonstrates the making of a gear of (I think) 41 teeth; he estimates it would take a competent Greek perhaps 45 minutes to do it, using chisel, hammer, corner file and a compass. What is really amazing is that they did it without screws. It has been demonstrated that the inaccuracies in the AM would have swamped some of the more delicate prediction mechanisms, such as solar and lunar eccentricities. That makes it none the less marvelous, and doesn't at all require some Deus Ex from another planet.
AD. Anno Domini. Latin.
Why did Jonathan come up to the stage wearing shorts like he's about to get on a log plume ride at Disneyland?
What other devices in this same “clockwork” manner have yet to be uncovered from this time period and earlier? Generally, I think it is safe to assume that most technological innovation stems from militaries. I wonder if there is some sort of bronze clockwork repeating crossbow lost somewhere in the Aegean? Reall
A
Notice the Earth is in the center of the universe and the Earth does not rotate. And this model works. No spinning globe.
Michael Wright talks like my grandad does when he's been smashing the cocaine at the bingo.
I still remember the day they came to take Acad off the machine and forced me to work on Terramodel software that none of the firms I delt with used, except one engineering firm that seemed to spend alot of time with the executive director and was a a software dealer for Terramodel. Long story short Terramodel is a pretty bad ass C.A.D. system but AutoCad is the unarguable leader.
so your saying they had autocad, thousands of yrs ago to work out the alignments, cog counts, tooth counts, how many cogs to achieve a certain rotation, ect ect.. not happening in there life time.. then, you need to know metalurgy, so they dont wear out in 6 months.. &, have some understanding of precession.. to boot.. not happening in greek times.. its bs.. theres pure iron pillars thousands of yrs old, no rust.. what metal composition was used to make the cogs. &, what machine cut the teeth.. theres core drill holes ,upto 8", dia, in granite, diorite, with a turn rate of 2mm per cut.. harder than diamond or anything on earth..
Michael Holly makes several mistakes in his presentation about the AM. Yes, it is bronze. And Michael Wright is probably the best mechanical expert on the device. "It's a geocentric model." That's a null statement; it uses neither pre-Ptolemaian nor Copernican models to perform its calculations; it uses observational data reduced to cycles that can be mimicked by gears.
Later: I need to explain this better. There are two uses of the terms geocentric and heliocentric. The one in use in this video is not the common one concerning the 14th century debate between Copernicus and Aristotle/Ptolemy. In this video it merely means the viewpoint of the mechanism user, and in this sense the AM is geocentric: it assumes the user is on the Earth looking up to the heavens, as opposed to an orrery user who has a viewpoint outside any body. The the debate geocentric (Ptolemian) vs. heliocentric (Copernican) the two systems are math models which yield the same outcomes
"It takes into account leap year". No, it doesn't. It uses the Egyptian calendar common in its time, a 365 day year. It is constructed so that the discrepancy can be adjusted out manually (as Wright details whe discussing the front display), so its designers knew the Egyptian calendar needed adjustment, but that is manually done, not part of the "works".
There are actually 5 dials on the backside; the two large, spiral shaped dials and three small ones. The other large one he does't mention (but seems to be pointing at with his laser) is the Metonic dial which brings together the lunar and solar calendars. The Olympic dial is one of the small ones, inside the Metonic dial; it has a four year cycle which says which city hosts the pan-Hellinic games in the chosen year.
Indeed; thank goodness for Michael Wright.
puncheex2 Thank you! For giving us all more info than the dinosaurs! We're sick of this crap! We want the whole truth and nothing less. Not finding it here on this video, but thanks to you there's a bit more! : )
Your welcome. I dig deep and run across little bits hidden here and there. Will always post. Even if it sounds crazy.
Friend told me yesterday of talking to her brother. Over 20 years ago I told a bunch of info they had never heard. Her brother called me nuts and I let him have it! Told him when he finally wakes up, he wont be calling me nuts. You'll be calling it "your ignorance"! He laughed in my face.
20 + years later, subjects came up and my sister let him have it! DO YOU REMEMBER SHE SAID THIS AND THIS AND THIS AND THIS....? He said YA, Cowering sheepishly. And she is dead on right, isn't she? YA....And you scoffed and belittled her and told her to her face that she was crazy, right? YA, Who's the FN idiot now? (Speechless).
I get this all the time. If I tell things ahead of time of course it sounds insane...till it happens!
Peace, Q-PID
QPID, the article on the AM in wikipedia is pretty good. It goes into detail on the presumed construction.
I want more : / lol
Actually the Heliocentric system theory existed in antiquity too. Check out Aristarchus from Samos, and Eratoshenes, who were also believers that the earth is spherical. The later also measured its circumference.
1:34:30;
Nicolaos Alexopoulos is absolutely right with his
statement about religious fanaticism.
Has Nicolaos Alexopoulos also well considered
that a generation coming after us will condemn
about us, because of the material fanaticism
widespread among us today?
It seems to be a characteristic of the human
species that cannot be overcome.
My favorite part is where he shows the video of the exploded view of the antikythera mechanism starting at 1 hour and 13 minutes.
Here's that video in better quality -
Virtual Reconstruction of the Antikythera Mechanism - Michael Wright & Mogi Vicentini (2009)
ruclips.net/video/IT0gXa1ZrnA/видео.html
I Might Watch That Far, I Cant Get Past The Jeb Bush-ish 👀. And That Completely Adds Resistances To Free Flowing Thought.
Oh Prayers Answered, Please DONT Return To The Host.
@39:39 , 76 years also happens to be the average return time of Halley's comet.
Thanks, but that's common knowledge and a spurious correlation, like crime goes up in the summer because people eat more ice cream.
Knowledge belongs to humanity not to individuals
Michael Wright is a treasure! I love what he says about not hyping this too much because there's not much mystery as to why it wasn't done at the time, just that it WAS done then and that we lack evidence of anything of the sort for centuries afterwards. The knowledge was there, bronze was there, and e.g. Archimedes seems to have used gearing already. I like to think that the existence of this instrument is due to someone very much like Michael Wright back in the day: someone who was practical, and had access to the astronomical observations. Sadly Wright is treated as if he's marginal to the understanding of this, but he doesn't need to hype it since he knows he won't get more money from some institution.
There are primadial structures off the coast off NZ. During the last iceage (around10,000vyr ago) 90percent of the Zealand's contenetal shelf was dry land.
Many have raised the question about whether the AM was heliocentric or geocentric. In science, the difference between the two is a question of accuracy in predicting planetary locations, and up until Kepler, they were entirely equivalent. The man to put the quietus on geocentrism was not Copernicus, but Galileo, who observed the phases of Venus in his telescope, something geocentrism does not predict or explain, but heliocentrism does.
The AM is geo-centered - that is, its viewpoint is of a person on the surface of the Earth looking up to the heavens. A human observing the motion of the planets cannot do that from the sun; the local climate forbids it. It's funny - the mechanism declares the heliocentric theory by using the movements of the planets around the sun to model the view; it doesn't use epicycles. Perhaps that was thought to be a "shortcut" by the designer, but it adopts the correct interpretation in any case.
Inaccuracies in the mechanism arise from the incorrect planetary theory used which did not allow for Ptolemy's later equant refinement. Also, many of the things it tries to model (like the moon's elliptical orbit) are swamped by the inherent inaccuracies of the hand-built mechanism and triangular gear teeth.
I think that who ever made it was clearly aware of both theories and observations supporting the Heliocentrism being things that clearly negating Geocentrism as a viable description of our surrounding reality. However, since the Ancient Greek religion is dogmatic in describing the universe as geocentric, and art enforcing this as the key concept of the entire system of institutionalized religion is everywhere in their cities and on the device itself. It wouldn't be much of a tool for adhering to the calendar and observing the religious festivities if it didn't express this somehow, preferably so that it being geocentric seems obvious to anyone who happens to superficially observe it being used or presented somewhere.
The Greek and Roman relationship to religion and "God" wasn't based on a belief in there being an actual superior power or personality that is God or that his personality is actually a thing. But rather the entire thing was basically a folklore describing the human condition and worshipping of the _idea_ of an ideal man. And they were fully cognizant of the the fact that no such thing existed anywhere, but in their own imaginations.
So, investigating and making observations that confirm Heliocentric modelling as accurate and thus confirming it as the one that actually describes surrounding real world phenomena wasn't quite the same kind of a herecy as Galileo's "It spins after all" to the pope but would've lead to some awkward discussion with anyone trying to celebrate the traditional Greek holidays and seeing a system that spins the planet's around the Sun in someone's hands for example...
I think because of it is a calender, that movement of stars and moon not act as simulation on actual location of celestial body on heaven. But I think its function was like some sort of arrow of a clock with fix timer. Because of the speed of the gear was fix, each star will move at certain speed and pointed at different symbol, that symbol might also represent angle, location as per view from earth each month. They might still don't care either geocentric or holeocentric.
The geocentric model however does account for everything we see in the sky. As a matter of fact …more so in more ways than one of the heliocentric model.
@@reclavea How more so? Let's get down to brass tacks. What features of the cosmos are explained by geocentrism that are not by helio-?
@@puncheex2
First off all….today’s Big Bang Standard lambdaCDM Model is a further enhancement of the Copernican heliocentric model.
So basically the Big Bang is the Heliocentric Model.
From its inception the Big Bang Model has faced countless physics obstacles that had physicists apply “boot strap” fixes in order to maintain its viability.
The boot strap fixes have multiplied so much with all the new observations that the “boot straps” have turned seriously ugly and now are not at all maintaining the model’s integrity but now discrediting the model.
Here’s a few such problems and “boot straps”.
The Big Bang theory is missing 96% of the theory! Dark Matter and Dark Energy! Less than 4% of matter and energy we see is the visible universe we see!
Yet with over 50 + years of searching…nada!
Without these “boot straps” the model is dead! The heliocentric model is dead!
However…with the geocentric model ….it totally and very credibly works more precisely as the geocentric model has no need for any of these “boot straps”
A spinning universe accounts for the physics we see that the proponents of the heliocentric model attributed to Dark Energy and Dark Matter.
Other earlier boot straps also like “inflation” are not required.
it's really remarkable. However there must have been predecessors, and the slow advantment like most other technologies, as is normally the case.
That makes this idea of lost technology even more worrying as to how prevelent it was.
Some are out there to been seen ( eygptian and acient masonry) , some leave evidence; the sea fairing polynesians, but so so many have been lost to time.
Why do we assume than ancient romans or Greeks with the ability to build ships that large and navigate the oceans were not able or willing to collect what would have been ancient artefact's of their time themselves? By doing so we are also making assumptions that the people of that time didn't have the common-sense to plan ahead by building heavy objects in close proximity to the destination those objects were intended to be. Making such assumptions of sophisticated complex civilisations of the past seems ludicrous from my perspective. If we are interested in archaeology and ancient ruins and collecting ancient artefact's from around the world, are we not assuming that we are the only civilisation through history who found a value in doing such thing?? Making such assumptions sounds more so like we are blinded by our ego.
Man's conceit knows no bounds and the worst offenders are the academics and scientists
They say 'don't say anything if you can't say something good', …..I don't have to sit in a class with him at the front of the room
if you divide year to 13 months, each month is exactly 28 days
@kWide Vidsb Almost. One would need to be 29.
And, no, it isn’t. You still have a partial day at the end of the year- which throws the calendar off by a tad more than a quarter of a day every year. Moreover, it would make the solstices, and equinoxes as well as other important days, fall on different days on different years.
Nooo way. Just slow down, and think it over. 13x28? An odd number multiplied by an even number will always give an even number. 365 is an odd number, which means, it can't be the result of the operation 13x28.
Clear?
A Real month is defined by the Moons full orbit of 29 and a half days around the earth.
@@RyboBBurn There are two Different orbital periods for the moon. One is the time it takes to go around the earth once, Called its Sidereal Period. That is 27, days, 7 hours and 43 minutes (plus a handful of seconds down to a few decimal places ). But that is not the month we perceive because in one month the Earth moves approximately 1/12th of its way around the sun, changing the geometry of where the moon is in relation to the sun. That is, from earth a Full Moon is when the Moon is in exact opposition to the sun on the opposite side of the earth from the sun, and that means that from full moon to full moon requires the moon to move an additional 30 degrees in its orbit, to line up with the 30 degree shift in Earth’s position relative to the sun. That is its Synodic Period- which is 29 days 12 hours and 44 minuets, ( plus some fractional seconds. )
The moon has no even divisibility with the motion of the earth’s axial tilt to the sun, which defines our equinoxes and solstices- and hence the actual length of the year, which is 365.2422 days ( so- not even a full quarter day, which is why the extra day added on a leap year is still not enough to keep our calendar aligned with celestial motions ) This should give everyone a rough idea of how challenging it is to come up with a calendar that does not get out of sync with the sky. Our ability to discern these slight mismatches has evolved with our ability to keep time and to make accurate measurements of what we were observing.
Michael Wright is the right man, in the right profession, at the right time! He's brilliant. This is important information for our understanding of history and our relationship to it.
lmao I told a cop on Maui once .. who was obviously not liking white people .. which isn't unusual at all .. anyway his name was officer Wong I told him... you been wanting to be wite all your life but .. you are Wong! accept it! ..... it wasn't a great day for me ...
Everything happens for a reason. We live in a matrix with a tad bit of free will. Its probably no cooincidemce that he was on earth at this time. He probably invented it in his previous life.....but time is not linear except in our universe/dimension.
@@thornyturtleranch6152 ~ We are born into a matrix of deception, the owners of the world, own incorporated governments, corporations, institutions, including religious and the world assets, it's a pyramid of wealth and power. See the back of the One Dollar Bill, it has a pyramid topped with the all-seeing-eye, (the eye of Lucifer). Lucifer rules the matrix. -- Our job is to align ourselves with truth, God himself is truth and light with no darkness in him. Truth will lead us the Jesus Christ.
@@thornyturtleranch6152
Sorry, free will is free will. There is no tad bit about it.
The good man probably reincarnated so he could explain it to us again
We are not being told about our ancient past. He had to get help from advanced civilization. Those little brass gears has to have precise teeth and precise distance between them
I don't think anyone understood his sense of humor. I laughed out loud a few times.
In another RUclips video by another group of researchers on this mechanism, they have an alternative display of the large dial that does not use pointers, but instead has many concentric rings, each of which moves independently, to display the various front-panel information that is sh0wn with the pointers in this lecture. They read the pieces of the description/instructions on the mechanism and noted that it used the Greek word for "circle" a lot and think that this ring-shaped form of dis-play is what it means. Other than that, their work more-or-less gives the same results as sho0wn here.
One only rarely has the opportunity to hear a genius display the working of his mind. That was what Mr. Wright was doing. His mild complaints about the device were merely his expression of his disappointment, in the same nature as the Greeks, at the lack of perfection. He denies the remarkable nature of the device because, TO HIM, so much of it seems elementary now. He has the good fortune to be the product of several thousand years of the reconstruction of the knowledge the ancients had, which was lost in the passage of time... and his own considerable genius.
he maybe genius but .. he no good at presentation.. and he isn't very subtle ... the accent is hard to beat as well.. frankly
@@jamesgibson5876
I used to worry about form over content when i was a lot younger, too.
This is so interesting but so awkward and difficult to follow. Maybe show more of the machines and less of him?
Very interesting. Greeks inventing while others still living in caves. Makes you wonder why some people were so advanced.
greeks didnt invent sht,, they aquired it, from previous civilizations, thousands of yrs before greeks were a stain..do some research. other than mainstream bs..
DNA
I would suggest the difference between Michael Wright's time and the time from your Iphone is the difference from the solar time at Michael Wright's home and GMT from your Iphone.
Thinking with your hands and with your head means thinking in 3D. Very few people can do that.
If you can, it's startling or perplexing that others cannot.
In fact quite a number of those aboard the Pandora survived and returned home, including a number of the Bounty mutineers.
god bless algorithm, when i woke up, this was runnin ^^
Same here.
1:26 Parthenon and amazing sculptures, unbelievable engineering
An english version of this mechanism would predict how many "uhm" and "ehm" can a scientist say during a lecture.
*uhm* Very annoying *uhm... ehm...* habbit.
Take a drink every time you hear 'um' or 'ah'
We have no idea how old this device may be, we just know when it was taken to the deep.
So let's hypothesis for a moment, for the Greeks to have had such a mechanism is very telling but throws up more questions than answers, for to have reached this level of accuracy must have required many years of trial and error, how many years did it take?
How long did the Greeks work on this kind of mechanism before they plumped on this working model, 100, 200, 300? or did they manage to reach that level of accuracy by sheer chance?
We're always told that the ancients were in no way as sophisticated or as technologically advanced as we are today, but how many of us would survive without electricity, or without running water?
Problem is that we aren't that sophisticated or as technologically advanced as we may believe, the Greeks have shown us that they had their own technology, different as it may be from ours, but a technological advancement nonetheless and to have been able to have created such a mechanism proves that, it also proves they were capable of creating the tools to create the mechanism as well, for no matter how long it took to create the mechanism it would have taken twice as long for the tools to make it.
If this was only found because it happened to be on a ship that sank, one wonders what else there used to be that have now completely vanished and why there is no reference to such objects in the historical record, were they scrubbed, did our ancestors think it better for us to believe the Greeks were, no matter how philosophically advanced, that they were technologically backward.
The horse does not leave the gate fully trained from birth, it takes many years of training and honing that horse's skills along with an experienced rider, so how come the Greeks are now shown as doing just that, leaving the gate already at that stage, what else are we missing, what else has disappeared, what else did they have?
Funny how in our blind arrogance, we still believe the heliocentric model even when presented with, perhaps, the most accurate of geocentric mechanisms, which is the only thing that can explain why, the same stars in the sky can still be mapped as they were thousands of years ago even though we are led to believe that we're hurtling through space, yet somehow all the stars appear to be hurtling exactly in line with our solar system route!
Oh look, a flatearther! How funny.
So interesting. I often wonder what the speakers are referring to in their presentations. Dear Editors, perhaps more of the slides and less of a person talking might be more informative.
These guys 2000 years ago could teach us....Thank zeus!
All I see here is a navigation tool that was needed for fishing or exploration of other regions that enabled them in the ability in the returning as safely as possible for them as they could figure out with what they had found out bout what had been of the sure of the changes that were on hand as of a visual that could be mobily calibrated to the changes in their positions' changes.
"History is a fable agreed upon".
History is written by victors of war, leaders / Rulers with an agenda.
most of the time . depending on where and when.
YOU are a fable which people will agree upon for history
"History is bunk".
LOUD NOISES
That must have been the first time he presented this lecture. My goodness what a scramble.
I'm curious as to how Archimedes determined where to position the slot displaying lunar apogee and perigee. Wouldn't he have needed an extremely accurate clock?
lost that one too?
Not really its the phases over 28 days that are unequal so you only need accurate daily observations over time to show that change.
@@manoo422 how would we go about building an accurate clock? escapement?
@@pool2587 Whoever built the Antikythera machine was well capable of making an accurate clock. But at that time no one had thought about a power supply, such as weights or coils spring. Therefore no need for an escapement was ever identified. It would have been a small step had the technology not some how been lost!
@@manoo422 pendulum swing like a pendulum do
I'm grateful for the YT transcript feature. Imperfect, as technology is, much like human beings.
I find it interesting that it is based on the geocentric model
How can we know it's not pro-cythera mechanism? Why it would be against cythera?
(Uhm, and uhhhh) X 99999= making it impossible to stick to this very interesting stuff.
It's easy to play down the complexity of this device in our times, when knowledge has been passed down. I believe it was much harder to make 2000 years ago,than Michael Wright gives credit. Think of the first computers 50 -60 years ago how bad they seem compared to what we have now.
"..there's nothing subtle about the mechanization of it.. if you find it incredible then you need to adjust your set.."
_______
"ΤΟN ΚΑΚΟ ΣΟΥ ΤΟN ΦΛΑΡΟ" (Archimedes)
It's great to see this - but to have more than NINE AND A HALF minutes of ads for sponsors - really?
I wonder if 3d printer can print it out......
Definitely. It would require a machine with higher resolution than most can afford, but the components could easily be manufactured in a number of metals, as well as bronze.