Hey everyone! Lots of folks asking why you can’t leave the clamps on the stack, flip it over and machine the other side. That doesn’t work because you have to tap in the stack after flipping it, and clamps can’t hold against that tapping. The parts move differentially and you don’t end up with accurate cuts on all pieces. What DOES work though is supergluing them together and doing all the machining as a stack. I figured that out after this video and you’ll see me do it later in this series. Lots of people also ask why brass. It’s a lot less work to machine and form than steel is, mainly. It’s the traditional model engineering material for this reason. Every operation you see here is three times as much work in steel. Aluminum would not be strong enough.
I'm not a painter or machinist or anything but I did have an idea. Since brass is hard to paint could you electroplate something easier to paint on top of it? Idk if copper or aluminium or nickel would be easier to paint but if so there's tons of info out there on how to electroplate those at home (mostly for jewlery making I think).
My Dad is a machinist for over 30 years and i showed him your channel, well he has been binge watching your videos all weekend while off.. Now my Mom is calling screaming she can not get him to go anywhere all weekend.. lol sorry mom... but your welcome dad...
You are, without a doubt, the most articulate technical person I’ve ever seen on RUclips. You would be an amazing teacher. In fact you are an amazing teacher. It’s fascinating to watch the patience, the set-up’s and then the reward of all the work that you do. But my favorite thing so far of this channel hands-down; no close second even, is the picture of you and your dad together. Every dad loves pictures of himself and his princess.
Love to see this progress! In the railroad, to change a bearing we actually use a "crows foot" bar that clamps the wheel and then jacks up the journal box - which allows for removal of the bearing without removing the box.
25 years of painting totally unrelated structures has taught me 2 things (only). Paint always takes longer to set fully (weeks) And, it’s just paint, it’s coming off eventually, don’t get too hung up on it. Your work is beautiful.
Back in 73, a group of us were at the drive through watching the movie Serpico. In that movie, there is a scene where the hero is chased by the bad guys across a lot in a Mercedes. The hero jumps over a barrier and the Mercedes crashes into it. One of my buddies then said " So that's how the Mercedes bends".
For the brass pieces, to prep for painting, sandblast the items first, this will rough the surface up better than using wet and dry paper. Just tape up any bearing surface first. You can buy small sandblasting cabinets that will do the job. Once sandblasted, the etch primer will stick better. then a light sand of the primer once cured then top coat. Let dry and cure for a good week before assembly.
Hey Quinn! Nice Job on machining those little sheets of metal! About painting brass: I have built a small electrostatic painting gun to use with epoxi powder painting and a small electric oven to cure it. Entire system was built with a low budget but the result on painting brass pipe accessories was great!
24:03 - I think you already know what I'm going to say....... which is impressive, because I have no idea! ;) Fun to see things starting to really roll! 😍
I have not tried many painting options for brass but the best I've found is the Tamiya bottled lacquer paints for model building. Plenty of colors are available, including flat, satin and gloss black and lots of greys. It can be brush painted and airbrushed. It dries is minutes, especially the matt paints. It hardest within 24 hours, full hardness takes a few days. Even without a primer it holds reasonably well since it dries up pretty hard. It's hard to scratch, it prefers to chip. I use this on brass parts I build for highly detailed RC4x4 trucks, crawlers we call them. Some of these parts will frequently bump into rocks, trees and sand but the finish lasts a while and I do end up repainting some things every now and then.
While it is possible to bring the ends in flush with a file or some sand paper, if you don't have a die filer, another option would be to build a die filer. If you don't have the tools to build a die filer then you could build... this is how my thought process works and is likely why I have numerous tools for building things I may never build. Oh but the things I've built with those tools!, that I never had any intention of building!
A quick tip for a vertical bandsaw with an iron(steel) table. If you need to cut multiple parts the same length, a switchable magnet (like an indicator base) can be used as a quick and dirty fence. Obviously it doesn't work as well if the part is magnetic as well.
If you sandblast brass with super fine media at 25 - 35 psi it pits the surface enough to greatly improve paint adhesion without being such a rough finish it shows through the paint. You can also use glass bead for a better surface finish but the adhesion wont be quite as good. Also epoxy paints over a blasted finish are far tougher and hold up better.
I have 20+ years of experience casting brass and aluminiumbronze decorations for gravestones. I've tested several methods of blackening those pieces and I've settled using black silicone aluminium heat resistant paint. I oxidate my pieces first with propane flame to get something for the paint to grab, then I apply the heat resistant paint and bake the paint in the oven for couple of hours. You can't get glossy finish using heat resistant paint though, the finish is always matte, but it stays on for years and years through Finnish winters and summers. It's not very abrasion resistant, so the paint can wear off in places that rub against something else.
About painting brass, you could experiment by creating a rough surface somehow to create tiny voids for the paint to pool in. I think that a polished surface is definitely going to make it more difficult. Maybe you could get the effect by hammering emery paper on the brass. Another option might be to tin it with solder. Also I recently saw on a bush craft channel where a guy had a high carbon steel knife and to prevent rust he held it in boiling vinegar and it came out a dark grey colour which might be a more realistic colour than black though I don’t know if this would work with brass but again it’s good to try things through experimenting.
A large toaster oven from your local thrift store is a great tool to have for things like drying preheating, annealing, and curing paint. I have successfully powder-coated many thousands of bullets and a few various parts in a toaster oven using the shake and bake process. Once you learn it it's very simple but there's a lot of nuance having to do with cleanliness and dryness. Powder coat is all about static electricity. Having a good powder and very clean very dry parts makes everything easier.
definitely get a cheap toaster oven. You can use it to reflow solder, temper steel, cure paint. All manners of useful stuff and they cost almost nothing, even when new.
These are great for anything like Gun Kote that you don't want in your oven. The one problem with powder-coating is that the finish is too thick for a lot of applications. It's one of the reasons guns are usually done in Ceracote or Gun Kote.
@@zendodeb powder coat comes in pretty much any thickness. Most people fighting it are buying the stuff which is thick for filling defects in castings. Basically if you look at the spec sheet of there's a big coverage area per weight it will be thin.
These are really beautiful, and well-machined parts are so satisfying . My only possible contribution to the painting discussion would be to blacken then paint them? That way, if the paint chips, as it would in real life, the under lying surface is still blackened? Assuming paint will stick to the blackening of course.
One tip I can give if its possible when trying to paint stubborn slick materials is you can try sndblasting the parts with silica sand to give you more tooth fine sandpaper will almost never give you enough tooth for anything that isn't gonna sit and never be touched it will make the surface rougher and may require more coats etc to get a smooth surface unfortunately you're in a tricky spot for durability without using chemicals that one will be very pricey and two you may not wanna mess with for small model parts there isn't many off the shelf easy low cost hobby grade materials that stand up to more than sitting on a shelf lol there were some great materials that are now illegal and no longer made
hat jig is so well thought out! I am sure your patrons have already discussed this with you to death, but I would be very interested in any results of testing you do with electroplating either for a final finish or to create a layer that will hold a much stronger bond with the paint. As always, thank you so much for sharing your insights and taking us along for the ride!
Alternatives for clamping multiple thin parts, superglue for those that don’t mind a bit of heat for releasing. Cut over length, clamp together and drill a hole in each end and put 2 bolts through to clamp them together. Or I have a couple of miniature mole grips modified with pivoting jaws to get really good grip. With the items cut a bit over length to allow for the clamps. Steve
Anyone else get hungry every time Quinn says “arch-bar”? Like, “smooth, chocolate covered peanut and caramel Archbar - finely engineered to grind away your hunger…”😊 💨 🍃
just started to look through your content. Really enjoying watching your work - very skilled. I make wooden model ships and same problem with painting brass work. Best solution I found is acid wash/degrease, oxidise with brass black and then either coat with clear lacquer or use an etch prime and then enamel paint. The brass black is chemically bonded to the surface so paints stick really strongly and do not scratch off easily. Great work
Your trucks look marveolus, Quinn! Kozo does show some ingenious methods and jigs in his book, doesn't he? As for paint, I have used powder coat and have found that to adhere to brass quite well. I know you chose not to do it because of the increased thickness of the pain layer, but I have not found it to be an issue in my A3 build. At least, no more of an issue that you seemed to have with the enamel paint. It has worked quite well for me. My only problem is with the boiler. I won't be using powder coat there, probably just black high-temp BBQ paint from the local HW store for that. Excellent work, Quinn. Really enjoying watching you build the A3 Switcher!
Good work. When I have been forced to machine stacks, I always try to clamp them by drilling two holes through all at the ends. Then the stack is bolted tightly. Then both sides can be machined. The extra length can be cut away. This is much faster than machining one at a time.
Hi Quinn, regarding painting the brass parts, here's my 2 cents: experiment with electroplating the brass with nickel and paint over that (or cold blue that) cheers!
I don't have personal experience to offer, Quinn, but I remember my dad 40+ years ago used to paint brass by anodizing it first. I guess anodizing it provides a key for the paint to bond to.
That's the second set of arch-bar trucks I've seen today! I volunteer at a preserved railway in the UK, and today I shunted a Warwell wagon, which also has them.
One person (at least--I didn't read all the comments) mentioned lacquer for musical instruments. It's usually nitrocellulose and hard but brittle. It's not that tough, though it does adhere well. It might be good enough and will certainly be better than the rattle-can paint you used. But most new instruments are finished using epoxy, which does indeed need to be baked. Use a toaster oven with ventilation. No etching required--instruments are usually color-buffed using red rouge to a mirror finish. Lacquer can be tinted, or sprayed over brass blackened with liver of sulphur. Ferree's Tools sells "Perma-Laq" epoxy lacquer for musical instrument applications in addition to traditional nitrocellulose lacquer. They ship to Canada with a $50 minimum. Stuff isn't cheap, but nothing about this project seems like it has been cheap. It won't be as thin as plating but it will be thinner than powder-coat by a long shot.
Fantastic, amazing and AWESOME work, Quinn! You're an inspiration. As for finishing brass....have you ever considered Japanning the metal. Asphaultum (Gilsonite) is shipping friendly and cheap like borscht. The solvent is simple boiled linseed oil. Very oven friendly and relatively free of noxious odours. I've used it a few times on brass, aluminium and even titanium. The only real drawback is that the coating is fairly thick. For reference, think of a pre-WW2 Stanley hand plane finish. Just a thought.
So, people suggested specialized products and solvent based ones. You can also powder coat brass or electroplate it. The latter is used quite extensively by Clickspring.
Not advice, as I don’t know beyond the usual photo-etch (frequently discontinued) side; but perhaps a worthwhile experiment? Your pickling bath might produce a good key.
Love that bending jig, what a clever idea. As for the paint, well the real things would be patched, painted and chipped regularly 🫣 so don't stress too much yet 👍
Try cerekote for your paint, you will need a toaster oven to cure it, but considering how small your parts are it should be doable. We use it quite regularly to coat brass receivers and aluminum receivers on firearms.
I've been watching Blondihacks for years now, but I guess I joined after the Veronica project. I had never seen any videos about it until I saw one with Quinn speaking about the Veronica project at a Hackaday conference. I've always wondered why there was an oscilloscope in the channel intro, but I had never seen a project that could have used one. That was interesting to learn. Everytime I learn something new about Quinn, it always leaves me realizing she's cooler and more interesting than I thought.
Yes, brass is a pain. I've found that sandblasting followed up by etch primer ASAP works reasonable well. The top coat can be added later. I remember Dan Gelbart demonstrating coatings and he talked about the surface needing to be "activated" so it will accept the paint. Sandblasting removes oxide and films but it also activates the surface. The initial activation will lose effectiveness over time so a quick coating after the prep is necessary. If you can't sandblast, he suggested scrubbing with Ajax household cleaner. Regards, Preso
I find a lot of my time in model engineering is making jigs. 3 hours making a jig adn 1 minute bending. Glad to see you using scale nuts and bolts. As for painting bronze and brass on my locomotives and stationary engines, i use a etch primer and once cured use gloss high temp engine enamel. There is a book called "how not to paint a locomotive" by christopher vine who built a 7 1/4" bongo in the UK. Ex Rolls Royce engineer and its a good read.
Great job Quinn! I do quite some restoration work on live steam locomotives which are - as in your case - mainly brass, copper and steel. For painting the brass and copper parts, I sandblast them (I think emory paper would work as well) and then apply heat resistant paint. You find it in automotive stores for exhausts and engine parts. The choice in colors is quite limited but black, dark grey, silver, and red you should be able to find. The paint needs curing in an oven in order to polymerize. I put the parts in a firmly closed roasting bag to contain the fumes. So far, my wife never complaint :) Be aware that the curing temperature is above the melting point of most solders thus only silver soldered parts go into the oven. Greetings from Switzerland
You might want to take a look at a product called KG GunKote. It is a baked on product that has a very thin finished thickness so you can apply to tolerance parts (in most cases) without any ill effects. If your brass is properly prepared - meaning super clean and pre-etched - it will provide a very durable finish. Since this is a baked-on product you should look into getting an inexpensive toaster oven to cure the parts in so you don't have to worry about ruining your kitchen oven. And, if you go this route then you can also use the toaster oven to cure powder coat finishes for other projects too. You can get really good powder coat results with the inexpensive Harbor Freight or Eastwood powder coating systems. Of course, you don't want to use the powder coatings on your A3 build, as you correctly pointed out in your video. Good luck.
Not sure if it helps in this specific scenario or if you've already considered it but the best success I've had painting small brass parts is to sand blast, and then to use a high temperature cured paint - something intended for exhausts or barbeques. The sand blasting leaves a finish that's hard to describe but I guess like a microscopic pitting(?!). I've done some parts on steam engines that way which seem to be standing the test of time. This is coming from someone who despises painting and would prefer to avoid it at all costs. Thanks for the videos - enjoying following the build 🙂
Quinn, the brake you are using has an adjustment for the blade. just creep up to the angle and voila, very accurate for repeated jobs. As a sheet metal fabricator, welder of nearly 60 years I would also make use of the back-stop facility . Always work from one end and only one end to finish. Could save a lot of time.
For milling parallels together - Stefan Gotteswinter has a technique where he clamps them down together on the table, not the vice, and machines both sides in the one setup.
2K Epoxy primer for auto body work sticks to everything and is extremely durable. I sometimes mix up a small amount and brush it on parts and fasteners. I ordered some from Eastwood. It also comes in a special 2 component spray can that has an activator button to mix the 2 parts in the can.
One more thing you could look at is bulldog adhesion promoting primer it's Often used and works well to bond to slick materials such as plastics and metals and just about any slick surface even glass and does have a lil flex but I've never used it specifically on brass that will get banged around you can usually get it at many automotive specific paint dealers it's not usually at auto or hardware stores 👍👍👍
Hey, it can be cumbersome but I've done that very thing many times with aluminum parts nearly the same size. Unless you're getting a lot of distortion from the material removal, leaving the clamps on through the entire process should work very well, I've done hundreds of parts this way and can only think that you're getting some bowing that's not consistent. Anyway, whatever works in the end is great (by definition). Have fun, love your railroad!
You need to pickle the parts in an oxidizing acid solution. Copper does not easily dissolve in mineal acids. Common methods include nasty options containing nitric acid. However, there are phosphoric, sulfuric, and citric acid options as well. Probably the least nasty is a heated (~50c) solution of 10% citric acid in over the counter 3% hydrogen peroxide. The peroxide serves as the oxidizing agent. There are also hexavalen chromium options for chromating. But, I'd try to avoid that. If the metal color doesn't matter, you could always electroless plate them to an easier surface.
Did you ever mention a Die Filer??? lol 😉😉😉 You've really piqued my interest in machining. I'm currently looking more into it! love your content and humor, it really makes my day when I see a new Blondihacks video upload!
perhaps profile the brass with glass bead sand blasting. that is how we made powder coat stick well on parts. our profile was 1-3 thousandths. paint benefited as well. enjoy watch your channel
Have you considered Cerakote? Cerakote is a ceramic based coating for metal parts that is mainly seen in space, aviation and firearm applications its also fairly heat resistant. (so interesting for a steam engine) the application is similar to powder coating According to a quick websearch it also sticks really well to brass parts
Upol Raptor Epoxy Primer 2K aerosol followed by two pack polyurethane acrylic gloss top coat .Maybe time to invest in a small budget touch-up spray gun Quinn ( cheap Fast Mover Mini HVLP Gravity Spray Gun 0.8mm ) . Epoxy holds on brass through sheer hardness not chemical adhesion .Brass is best prepped with a red scotch pad in a circular motion (cross hatch)
Quinn, nice work as always. I've had some limited experience spray painting small brass parts that are exposed to the elements. I used a product called "Spray Max". It it a two part epoxy primer that comes in spray can and has a nozzle that all spray paints should have. I scuffed the pieces with a scotch brite pad to give the surface some tooth and then dunked them in acetone for degreasing. I gave my parts two coats over the course of 24 hours, although the can info says it will be good for four days, so you might get a third coat. With light scuffing between coats, of course. This primer really stuck to the brass bits and after a couple days curing, I top coated with a good enamel and baked the parts in a toaster oven (yay! yard sales). They've been out in our tropical climate now for 2 years and, outside of the usually Florida funk, they look good as new with just a wipe. I don't know how this product will work in a high wear situation like a model rail car, but it's worth a try.
Fantastic work Quinn. I am excited for you. The day you run this train is going to make all this planning, effort and learning so worth it! I love it when people suceed....
That is the most amazing thing you made...this week. All jokes aside I called my daughter in the room, my wife, and my son we all had no idea there was so much going on in those things, and the next thing that was side to me...I want to go on a train ride.
My hobby involves a lot of patina work with brass, bronze and copper. I'd recommend a couple of books on the patination of metals: Hughes and Rowe's "The Colouring, bronzing and patination of metals." Runfola's "Patina" Both of them have recipes and techniques for making deep, durable blacks in copper based alloys. There are many hundred recipes and techniques in those two volumes, so you'll just have to find the most appropriate.
@@OhHeyTrevorFlowers Hughes and Rowe's book is OOP and can cost quite a bit if you find a copy. Deals are out there, but it may be difficult to get the book quickly. Fortunately the Runfola book is easy to get. It doesn't have as much of the theory and such, but it does have a lot of the recipes and full-color examples of the results.
Really neat work! In the past very lightly shot blasted to get etch primer to bond better to brass and stainless steel. Seemed to help.....just had to be gentle so all looked smooth once painted.
I have had great luck with brass painting, but I lightly sandblast the parts, etch primer and I use enamel with an added hardener (buy separate and mix)
Take another look at powder coating. The low budget static guns are pretty cheap and you can cure it in a toaster oven. I've been powder coating lead so It should work fine on brass with a good tooth.
I paint Ho scale brass model trains with acrylic enamels. I don’t think these would stand up outdoors, however, I sandblast everything before I clean and paint and that seems to provide more bite for the paint. Hope this helps you out.
I've had a lot of luck with Mr Hobby's Metal Primer on brass, not exactly sure what it is, I can't really find an SDS for it, but it works very well... Usually top coat it with some kind of satin clear coat to give it a bit of extra shielding, but it holds up pretty well in general. Also, I have that same fiskers xacto handle, and ended up putting a hole in it, tapping it, and adding a screw so it doesn't roll away. ;D
I was in the Navy working on aircraft. Older aircraft use more brass than newer does. Nitrocellulose Lacquer top coat, and often we used Zinc Chromate self etching primer. Was it durable? Scuffing up the brass with a wire brush giving it a cross hatch, ZC self etching primer, let it dry then nitrocellulose lacquer top coat. If it was a humid day, good luck with that, dry days it seemed to work.
I have done some black chrome plating to brass, but it does come out kind of shiny. Maybe if the parts were gently Garnet blasted prior to black chrome plating it would give the desired effect. With brass you would probably have to give it a nickel wash first before the Chrome would take. Chemicals to do this are a couple hundred dollars and might be useful for other things
You're already setup for acid pickling. I would give that a shot. Then skip the etch primer and go right to acrylic enamel. I also know you have considered automotive finishes. You may find a epoxy primer in an acceptable colour.
Hey everyone! Lots of folks asking why you can’t leave the clamps on the stack, flip it over and machine the other side. That doesn’t work because you have to tap in the stack after flipping it, and clamps can’t hold against that tapping. The parts move differentially and you don’t end up with accurate cuts on all pieces. What DOES work though is supergluing them together and doing all the machining as a stack. I figured that out after this video and you’ll see me do it later in this series.
Lots of people also ask why brass. It’s a lot less work to machine and form than steel is, mainly. It’s the traditional model engineering material for this reason. Every operation you see here is three times as much work in steel. Aluminum would not be strong enough.
Of course! When in doubt super glue, duct tape, or WD-40… the holy trinity of engineering.
I was going to suggest soft solder, but superglue probably does need less cleanup
The glue is a good. Idea.
I'm not a painter or machinist or anything but I did have an idea. Since brass is hard to paint could you electroplate something easier to paint on top of it? Idk if copper or aluminium or nickel would be easier to paint but if so there's tons of info out there on how to electroplate those at home (mostly for jewlery making I think).
Yep, while you were struggling the thin strip, the first thing that came to mind was super glueing them together. Hindsight is always 20/20.
My Dad is a machinist for over 30 years and i showed him your channel, well he has been binge watching your videos all weekend while off.. Now my Mom is calling screaming she can not get him to go anywhere all weekend.. lol sorry mom... but your welcome dad...
You are, without a doubt, the most articulate technical person I’ve ever seen on RUclips. You would be an amazing teacher. In fact you are an amazing teacher. It’s fascinating to watch the patience, the set-up’s and then the reward of all the work that you do. But my favorite thing so far of this channel hands-down; no close second even, is the picture of you and your dad together. Every dad loves pictures of himself and his princess.
Love to see this progress! In the railroad, to change a bearing we actually use a "crows foot" bar that clamps the wheel and then jacks up the journal box - which allows for removal of the bearing without removing the box.
25 years of painting totally unrelated structures has taught me 2 things (only). Paint always takes longer to set fully (weeks)
And, it’s just paint, it’s coming off eventually, don’t get too hung up on it. Your work is beautiful.
Truly these are the Mercedes of bends 😊
Back in 73, a group of us were at the drive through watching the movie Serpico. In that movie, there is a scene where the hero is chased by the bad guys across a lot in a Mercedes. The hero jumps over a barrier and the Mercedes crashes into it. One of my buddies then said " So that's how the Mercedes bends".
Niiiiiiiiiiiice😊
My girlfriend was called Mercedes, she got all the Bends...
🤣🤣🤣
For the brass pieces, to prep for painting, sandblast the items first, this will rough the surface up better than using wet and dry paper. Just tape up any bearing surface first. You can buy small sandblasting cabinets that will do the job. Once sandblasted, the etch primer will stick better. then a light sand of the primer once cured then top coat. Let dry and cure for a good week before assembly.
Hey Quinn! Nice Job on machining those little sheets of metal!
About painting brass: I have built a small electrostatic painting gun to use with epoxi powder painting and a small electric oven to cure it. Entire system was built with a low budget but the result on painting brass pipe accessories was great!
Oh boy, a new Blondihacks video, time make some tea and relax for half an hour ♥
I feel the same way!
I don't drink tea, but SAME 😂❤
I totally agree, including the tea 😊
I never realised how clever the design of railroad trucks are. They look very rigid, but are actually very flexible 😮
24:03 - I think you already know what I'm going to say....... which is impressive, because I have no idea! ;)
Fun to see things starting to really roll! 😍
@13:16 Didn't realize that all four were there until you started taking them off the stack. VERY uniform and consistent! IMPRESSIVE!
I have not tried many painting options for brass but the best I've found is the Tamiya bottled lacquer paints for model building.
Plenty of colors are available, including flat, satin and gloss black and lots of greys.
It can be brush painted and airbrushed. It dries is minutes, especially the matt paints. It hardest within 24 hours, full hardness takes a few days.
Even without a primer it holds reasonably well since it dries up pretty hard. It's hard to scratch, it prefers to chip.
I use this on brass parts I build for highly detailed RC4x4 trucks, crawlers we call them. Some of these parts will frequently bump into rocks, trees and sand but the finish lasts a while and I do end up repainting some things every now and then.
I'm really enjoying this project. Thank you for taking us along.
While it is possible to bring the ends in flush with a file or some sand paper, if you don't have a die filer, another option would be to build a die filer. If you don't have the tools to build a die filer then you could build... this is how my thought process works and is likely why I have numerous tools for building things I may never build. Oh but the things I've built with those tools!, that I never had any intention of building!
A quick tip for a vertical bandsaw with an iron(steel) table. If you need to cut multiple parts the same length, a switchable magnet (like an indicator base) can be used as a quick and dirty fence. Obviously it doesn't work as well if the part is magnetic as well.
If you sandblast brass with super fine media at 25 - 35 psi it pits the surface enough to greatly improve paint adhesion without being such a rough finish it shows through the paint. You can also use glass bead for a better surface finish but the adhesion wont be quite as good. Also epoxy paints over a blasted finish are far tougher and hold up better.
I have 20+ years of experience casting brass and aluminiumbronze decorations for gravestones. I've tested several methods of blackening those pieces and I've settled using black silicone aluminium heat resistant paint. I oxidate my pieces first with propane flame to get something for the paint to grab, then I apply the heat resistant paint and bake the paint in the oven for couple of hours.
You can't get glossy finish using heat resistant paint though, the finish is always matte, but it stays on for years and years through Finnish winters and summers. It's not very abrasion resistant, so the paint can wear off in places that rub against something else.
About painting brass, you could experiment by creating a rough surface somehow to create tiny voids for the paint to pool in. I think that a polished surface is definitely going to make it more difficult. Maybe you could get the effect by hammering emery paper on the brass.
Another option might be to tin it with solder.
Also I recently saw on a bush craft channel where a guy had a high carbon steel knife and to prevent rust he held it in boiling vinegar and it came out a dark grey colour which might be a more realistic colour than black though I don’t know if this would work with brass but again it’s good to try things through experimenting.
A large toaster oven from your local thrift store is a great tool to have for things like drying preheating, annealing, and curing paint.
I have successfully powder-coated many thousands of bullets and a few various parts in a toaster oven using the shake and bake process. Once you learn it it's very simple but there's a lot of nuance having to do with cleanliness and dryness. Powder coat is all about static electricity. Having a good powder and very clean very dry parts makes everything easier.
definitely get a cheap toaster oven. You can use it to reflow solder, temper steel, cure paint. All manners of useful stuff and they cost almost nothing, even when new.
You can get a cheap ITC temp controller and make them much more accurate as well. I've used a dollar store toaster oven with one for years.
These are great for anything like Gun Kote that you don't want in your oven. The one problem with powder-coating is that the finish is too thick for a lot of applications. It's one of the reasons guns are usually done in Ceracote or Gun Kote.
@@zendodeb powder coat comes in pretty much any thickness. Most people fighting it are buying the stuff which is thick for filling defects in castings. Basically if you look at the spec sheet of there's a big coverage area per weight it will be thin.
These are really beautiful, and well-machined parts are so satisfying . My only possible contribution to the painting discussion would be to blacken then paint them? That way, if the paint chips, as it would in real life, the under lying surface is still blackened? Assuming paint will stick to the blackening of course.
One tip I can give if its possible when trying to paint stubborn slick materials is you can try sndblasting the parts with silica sand to give you more tooth fine sandpaper will almost never give you enough tooth for anything that isn't gonna sit and never be touched it will make the surface rougher and may require more coats etc to get a smooth surface unfortunately you're in a tricky spot for durability without using chemicals that one will be very pricey and two you may not wanna mess with for small model parts there isn't many off the shelf easy low cost hobby grade materials that stand up to more than sitting on a shelf lol there were some great materials that are now illegal and no longer made
hat jig is so well thought out!
I am sure your patrons have already discussed this with you to death, but I would be very interested in any results of testing you do with electroplating either for a final finish or to create a layer that will hold a much stronger bond with the paint.
As always, thank you so much for sharing your insights and taking us along for the ride!
Quinn, you do beautiful work. You are a top-notch Machinist.
Alternatives for clamping multiple thin parts, superglue for those that don’t mind a bit of heat for releasing. Cut over length, clamp together and drill a hole in each end and put 2 bolts through to clamp them together. Or I have a couple of miniature mole grips modified with pivoting jaws to get really good grip. With the items cut a bit over length to allow for the clamps. Steve
Anyone else get hungry every time Quinn says “arch-bar”? Like, “smooth, chocolate covered peanut and caramel Archbar - finely engineered to grind away your hunger…”😊 💨 🍃
just started to look through your content. Really enjoying watching your work - very skilled. I make wooden model ships and same problem with painting brass work. Best solution I found is acid wash/degrease, oxidise with brass black and then either coat with clear lacquer or use an etch prime and then enamel paint. The brass black is chemically bonded to the surface so paints stick really strongly and do not scratch off easily. Great work
Your trucks look marveolus, Quinn! Kozo does show some ingenious methods and jigs in his book, doesn't he?
As for paint, I have used powder coat and have found that to adhere to brass quite well. I know you chose not to do it because of the increased thickness of the pain layer, but I have not found it to be an issue in my A3 build. At least, no more of an issue that you seemed to have with the enamel paint. It has worked quite well for me. My only problem is with the boiler. I won't be using powder coat there, probably just black high-temp BBQ paint from the local HW store for that.
Excellent work, Quinn. Really enjoying watching you build the A3 Switcher!
Good work. When I have been forced to machine stacks, I always try to clamp them by drilling two holes through all at the ends. Then the stack is bolted tightly. Then both sides can be machined. The extra length can be cut away. This is much faster than machining one at a time.
Wow, so glad you made that die filer! Now you can use it for all your die filer needs!
Yep, a machine to die for. I have filed that away for a future project.
@@oldfarthacksCome for the machining, stay for the puns. 😂
Those assemblies look really cool, I love how the degrees of freedom are built in with some clever tolerances and reliefs.
Hi Quinn, regarding painting the brass parts, here's my 2 cents: experiment with electroplating the brass with nickel and paint over that (or cold blue that) cheers!
I don't have personal experience to offer, Quinn, but I remember my dad 40+ years ago used to paint brass by anodizing it first. I guess anodizing it provides a key for the paint to bond to.
That's the second set of arch-bar trucks I've seen today! I volunteer at a preserved railway in the UK, and today I shunted a Warwell wagon, which also has them.
One person (at least--I didn't read all the comments) mentioned lacquer for musical instruments. It's usually nitrocellulose and hard but brittle. It's not that tough, though it does adhere well. It might be good enough and will certainly be better than the rattle-can paint you used. But most new instruments are finished using epoxy, which does indeed need to be baked. Use a toaster oven with ventilation. No etching required--instruments are usually color-buffed using red rouge to a mirror finish. Lacquer can be tinted, or sprayed over brass blackened with liver of sulphur. Ferree's Tools sells "Perma-Laq" epoxy lacquer for musical instrument applications in addition to traditional nitrocellulose lacquer. They ship to Canada with a $50 minimum. Stuff isn't cheap, but nothing about this project seems like it has been cheap. It won't be as thin as plating but it will be thinner than powder-coat by a long shot.
Fantastic, amazing and AWESOME work, Quinn! You're an inspiration. As for finishing brass....have you ever considered Japanning the metal. Asphaultum (Gilsonite) is shipping friendly and cheap like borscht. The solvent is simple boiled linseed oil. Very oven friendly and relatively free of noxious odours. I've used it a few times on brass, aluminium and even titanium. The only real drawback is that the coating is fairly thick. For reference, think of a pre-WW2 Stanley hand plane finish. Just a thought.
So, people suggested specialized products and solvent based ones. You can also powder coat brass or electroplate it. The latter is used quite extensively by Clickspring.
Not advice, as I don’t know beyond the usual photo-etch (frequently discontinued) side; but perhaps a worthwhile experiment?
Your pickling bath might produce a good key.
Love that bending jig, what a clever idea. As for the paint, well the real things would be patched, painted and chipped regularly 🫣 so don't stress too much yet 👍
It looks pretty darned good Quinn. I wouldn’t sweat it. I’d be proud of that job.
Cool beans lady, love your work!
as for the brass strips.
Before doing any milling: bore holes at both ends, use screws to bind them into a "block", machine the block.
Try cerekote for your paint, you will need a toaster oven to cure it, but considering how small your parts are it should be doable. We use it quite regularly to coat brass receivers and aluminum receivers on firearms.
I've been watching Blondihacks for years now, but I guess I joined after the Veronica project. I had never seen any videos about it until I saw one with Quinn speaking about the Veronica project at a Hackaday conference. I've always wondered why there was an oscilloscope in the channel intro, but I had never seen a project that could have used one. That was interesting to learn. Everytime I learn something new about Quinn, it always leaves me realizing she's cooler and more interesting than I thought.
Yes, brass is a pain. I've found that sandblasting followed up by etch primer ASAP works reasonable well. The top coat can be added later. I remember Dan Gelbart demonstrating coatings and he talked about the surface needing to be "activated" so it will accept the paint. Sandblasting removes oxide and films but it also activates the surface. The initial activation will lose effectiveness over time so a quick coating after the prep is necessary. If you can't sandblast, he suggested scrubbing with Ajax household cleaner.
Regards, Preso
Thanks for the tips, Preso! I always learn a lot from all your metal finishing techniques.
I find a lot of my time in model engineering is making jigs. 3 hours making a jig adn 1 minute bending. Glad to see you using scale nuts and bolts. As for painting bronze and brass on my locomotives and stationary engines, i use a etch primer and once cured use gloss high temp engine enamel. There is a book called "how not to paint a locomotive" by christopher vine who built a 7 1/4" bongo in the UK. Ex Rolls Royce engineer and its a good read.
Great job Quinn! I do quite some restoration work on live steam locomotives which are - as in your case - mainly brass, copper and steel. For painting the brass and copper parts, I sandblast them (I think emory paper would work as well) and then apply heat resistant paint. You find it in automotive stores for exhausts and engine parts. The choice in colors is quite limited but black, dark grey, silver, and red you should be able to find. The paint needs curing in an oven in order to polymerize. I put the parts in a firmly closed roasting bag to contain the fumes. So far, my wife never complaint :) Be aware that the curing temperature is above the melting point of most solders thus only silver soldered parts go into the oven. Greetings from Switzerland
You might want to take a look at a product called KG GunKote. It is a baked on product that has a very thin finished thickness so you can apply to tolerance parts (in most cases) without any ill effects. If your brass is properly prepared - meaning super clean and pre-etched - it will provide a very durable finish. Since this is a baked-on product you should look into getting an inexpensive toaster oven to cure the parts in so you don't have to worry about ruining your kitchen oven. And, if you go this route then you can also use the toaster oven to cure powder coat finishes for other projects too. You can get really good powder coat results with the inexpensive Harbor Freight or Eastwood powder coating systems. Of course, you don't want to use the powder coatings on your A3 build, as you correctly pointed out in your video. Good luck.
The way those come together, and the amazing blocks, are beautiful.
Well done as usual.
Thanks, and Meow to Sprocket.
Oh yeah I was just reminded by a watchmaker that shellac adheres to brass extremely well and can be easily dyed
Not sure if it helps in this specific scenario or if you've already considered it but the best success I've had painting small brass parts is to sand blast, and then to use a high temperature cured paint - something intended for exhausts or barbeques. The sand blasting leaves a finish that's hard to describe but I guess like a microscopic pitting(?!). I've done some parts on steam engines that way which seem to be standing the test of time. This is coming from someone who despises painting and would prefer to avoid it at all costs. Thanks for the videos - enjoying following the build 🙂
Beautiful parts and the bending was awesome, great build 👌
Didn't like the black paint, brass looks so good in contrast to the red and steel 😁
Quinn, the brake you are using has an adjustment for the blade. just creep up to the angle and voila, very accurate for repeated jobs. As a sheet metal fabricator, welder of nearly 60 years I would also make use of the back-stop facility . Always work from one end and only one end to finish. Could save a lot of time.
Tamiya makes a metal primer for brass detail parts on models. AK also makes a photo-etch burnish that is pretty dark on brass parts
I really look forward to your Saturday videos, so glad I found your channel.
For milling parallels together - Stefan Gotteswinter has a technique where he clamps them down together on the table, not the vice, and machines both sides in the one setup.
2K Epoxy primer for auto body work sticks to everything and is extremely durable. I sometimes mix up a small amount and brush it on parts and fasteners. I ordered some from Eastwood. It also comes in a special 2 component spray can that has an activator button to mix the 2 parts in the can.
Absolutely fabulous. I know nothing about machining or how trains work and I find this fascinating. Keep up the brilliant work.
oh and yes , the die filer! what a pretty die filer :D
One more thing you could look at is bulldog adhesion promoting primer it's Often used and works well to bond to slick materials such as plastics and metals and just about any slick surface even glass and does have a lil flex but I've never used it specifically on brass that will get banged around you can usually get it at many automotive specific paint dealers it's not usually at auto or hardware stores 👍👍👍
Yay! It's Blondihacks time!!!
Hey, it can be cumbersome but I've done that very thing many times with aluminum parts nearly the same size. Unless you're getting a lot of distortion from the material removal, leaving the clamps on through the entire process should work very well, I've done hundreds of parts this way and can only think that you're getting some bowing that's not consistent. Anyway, whatever works in the end is great (by definition). Have fun, love your railroad!
Indeed. Avoid the pucker whenever possible!
You need to pickle the parts in an oxidizing acid solution. Copper does not easily dissolve in mineal acids. Common methods include nasty options containing nitric acid. However, there are phosphoric, sulfuric, and citric acid options as well. Probably the least nasty is a heated (~50c) solution of 10% citric acid in over the counter 3% hydrogen peroxide. The peroxide serves as the oxidizing agent. There are also hexavalen chromium options for chromating. But, I'd try to avoid that. If the metal color doesn't matter, you could always electroless plate them to an easier surface.
You need a powder coating setup. Those parts would both look good and be much more durable than any paints.
Linear polyurethane paints are definitely the top of the line. Akzo Nobel produces a few lines of product with Canadian distribution.
Did you ever mention a Die Filer??? lol 😉😉😉 You've really piqued my interest in machining. I'm currently looking more into it! love your content and humor, it really makes my day when I see a new Blondihacks video upload!
Looks like a show piece to me!
perhaps profile the brass with glass bead sand blasting. that is how we made powder coat stick well on parts. our profile was 1-3 thousandths. paint benefited as well. enjoy watch your channel
Amazing!!!
Those hatches on the journal boxes are such a nice little detail!
Wooooow! That paint job looks perfect! (As one may say.)
They look fantastic all that attention to detail and thoroughness really paid off! 🙌🏻
Maybe paint after patina with liver of sulfur. The liver of sulfur gives the brass a matte finish which may help with paint adhesion.
Have you considered Cerakote?
Cerakote is a ceramic based coating for metal parts that is mainly seen in space, aviation and firearm applications
its also fairly heat resistant. (so interesting for a steam engine)
the application is similar to powder coating
According to a quick websearch it also sticks really well to brass parts
Upol Raptor Epoxy Primer 2K aerosol followed by two pack polyurethane acrylic gloss top coat .Maybe time to invest in a small budget touch-up spray gun Quinn ( cheap Fast Mover Mini HVLP Gravity Spray Gun 0.8mm ) .
Epoxy holds on brass through sheer hardness not chemical adhesion .Brass is best prepped with a red scotch pad in a circular motion (cross hatch)
Quinn, nice work as always. I've had some limited experience spray painting small brass parts that are exposed to the elements. I used a product called "Spray Max". It it a two part epoxy primer that comes in spray can and has a nozzle that all spray paints should have. I scuffed the pieces with a scotch brite pad to give the surface some tooth and then dunked them in acetone for degreasing. I gave my parts two coats over the course of 24 hours, although the can info says it will be good for four days, so you might get a third coat. With light scuffing between coats, of course. This primer really stuck to the brass bits and after a couple days curing, I top coated with a good enamel and baked the parts in a toaster oven (yay! yard sales). They've been out in our tropical climate now for 2 years and, outside of the usually Florida funk, they look good as new with just a wipe. I don't know how this product will work in a high wear situation like a model rail car, but it's worth a try.
Fantastic work Quinn. I am excited for you. The day you run this train is going to make all this planning, effort and learning so worth it! I love it when people suceed....
That is the most amazing thing you made...this week. All jokes aside I called my daughter in the room, my wife, and my son we all had no idea there was so much going on in those things, and the next thing that was side to me...I want to go on a train ride.
They look wonderful, hello from the UK
My hobby involves a lot of patina work with brass, bronze and copper. I'd recommend a couple of books on the patination of metals:
Hughes and Rowe's "The Colouring, bronzing and patination of metals."
Runfola's "Patina"
Both of them have recipes and techniques for making deep, durable blacks in copper based alloys. There are many hundred recipes and techniques in those two volumes, so you'll just have to find the most appropriate.
Thank you for the recommendations. I shopped a bit for books on this topic but didn’t find clear winners so it’s nice to have informed advice.
@@OhHeyTrevorFlowers Hughes and Rowe's book is OOP and can cost quite a bit if you find a copy. Deals are out there, but it may be difficult to get the book quickly. Fortunately the Runfola book is easy to get. It doesn't have as much of the theory and such, but it does have a lot of the recipes and full-color examples of the results.
Really neat work! In the past very lightly shot blasted to get etch primer to bond better to brass and stainless steel. Seemed to help.....just had to be gentle so all looked smooth once painted.
For some reason, seeing you assemble them for the first time was very satisfying. Very clever design, indeed.
I have had great luck with brass painting, but I lightly sandblast the parts, etch primer and I use enamel with an added hardener (buy separate and mix)
Honestly, the unpainted brass looked pretty good to me! I realize that's probably not what you wanted to hear, but...
Being a model railroader, I'd say it looks really nice and functional. 😁
Take another look at powder coating. The low budget static guns are pretty cheap and you can cure it in a toaster oven. I've been powder coating lead so It should work fine on brass with a good tooth.
One word sums everything up! AWESOME!!!
Cerakote should be a good solution to painting. Requires baking but a small toaster oven will be sufficient
This project is really coming together. Great work Quinn.
Thanks for sharing.
Zinc Chromate primer, the green stuff in a rattle can, works well for my gauge 1 live steam brass appurtenances.
I paint Ho scale brass model trains with acrylic enamels. I don’t think these would stand up outdoors, however, I sandblast everything before I clean and paint and that seems to provide more bite for the paint. Hope this helps you out.
I've had a lot of luck with Mr Hobby's Metal Primer on brass, not exactly sure what it is, I can't really find an SDS for it, but it works very well... Usually top coat it with some kind of satin clear coat to give it a bit of extra shielding, but it holds up pretty well in general. Also, I have that same fiskers xacto handle, and ended up putting a hole in it, tapping it, and adding a screw so it doesn't roll away. ;D
You make it look so easy.
13:15 that’s the shot right there
I was in the Navy working on aircraft. Older aircraft use more brass than newer does. Nitrocellulose Lacquer top coat, and often we used Zinc Chromate self etching primer. Was it durable? Scuffing up the brass with a wire brush giving it a cross hatch, ZC self etching primer, let it dry then nitrocellulose lacquer top coat. If it was a humid day, good luck with that, dry days it seemed to work.
Quinn you are perfect. I am blown away with this project so far.❤
I have done some black chrome plating to brass, but it does come out kind of shiny. Maybe if the parts were gently Garnet blasted prior to black chrome plating it would give the desired effect. With brass you would probably have to give it a nickel wash first before the Chrome would take. Chemicals to do this are a couple hundred dollars and might be useful for other things
Wow! They turned out great!
You're already setup for acid pickling. I would give that a shot. Then skip the etch primer and go right to acrylic enamel. I also know you have considered automotive finishes. You may find a epoxy primer in an acceptable colour.