I think that her getting nerfed was ok, but they nerfed the wrong things. Things like flip kick bury/spike and a combo character's combo starters shouldn't be touched, but they could have changed things like zair and especially how easy it is to say "No" to disadvantage. Making her oos worse is interesting, but not unusual for her archetype.
You could've talked about the fact that she's the only character that can't fastfall neutral airdodge, if she does, she get slower. Great video overall!
@@milla2235 Yeah, try it yourself, it's faster to fastfall than fastfall neutral airdodge. She get slowed down a bit after the airdodge as if she never fastfalled in the first place
We all laughed at Marss as he uttered the words "zss sux". But now look who's laughing. Everyone. Everyone is laughing. We can now definitively say "zss sux"
I think another interesting point is that her moves just don’t work sometimes. If I had a nickle for every time someone has fallen out of fair, up smash, or up b I’d be the new Jeff bezos. Even at 8:42 there is a clip of boost kick completely whiffing a standing still Roy at point blank. That level of inconsistency turns off potential new zss players.
Would love to see why nobody plays Meta Knight. Abadango is basically the only rep for the character at top level, and it’s be interesting to analyze his shortcomings since they aren’t obvious on paper. I think that’s why people think of him as a secret high tier.
Meta Knight is low key high tier. Probably on the bottom of it, but he's better than people give him credit for. He has incredible recovery, some of the best edgeguards in the game, his ladder combos can basically kill you starting at 30, he has multiple double jumps on top of being a fast faller, he can straight punish you for ledge trapping him with his teleport attack being able to snap ledge when shielded. The character is very difficult and his up B is sometimes inconsistent. But considering there are other high tier characters with consistency issues like Zero Suit and Bayo I think he still deserves to be acknowledged as such. If you put in the effort he is really damn scary.
@MasterTahirLordofNoobs He has really good mobility and frame data but he has poor range despite being a sword, inconsistent, as well as a very one note playstyle that makes him easy to play against. I would say he's better than people give him credit but not quite high tier
I think its not just the nerfs but also the fact that players are much cleaner and more knowledgeable now so its even harder for her to get what she wants. You KNOW she wants you to neutral get up at ledge to get a down smash, you KNOW she wants nair flip kick at what percents, and people are much more effective at dealing with flip kick now as well. That move is still incredible but people used to hella overrate it and now I see people punish it a lot more and be a lot less afraid of it in general, which prob also has to do with the bury not lasting as long. Also just straight up her moves do not work properly a good portion of the time. The amount of times people have fallen out of fair or up smash or boost kick or even up tilt is insane to me, no other character imo has the hitbox issues she does. And on top of that shes very light so she explodes easily. Shes super hard to hit dont get me wrong, but once you hit her she can just die, flip kick being a "get out of disadvantage free" argument is somewhat of a myth at this point imo. People just didnt know how to deal with it effectively in the beginning but now if you havent caught on to how to punish it, its literally your fault at this point. I also agree with what Muteace said in his video that her wins in neutral typically get her middling rewards unless you go fuckin ultra instinct and read every decision your opponent makes in their disadvantage. Shes my favorite character in the game and I will always play her but it absolutely sucks that playing her is very frustrating and feels not worth it in a bracket setting. Insane to me that this game will give you characters like Rob and Pikachu and NEVER nerf them, but nerf ZSS?? Like what?? What about Joker my dudes?? That eiha/eigaon nerf was not enough imo, and I main Joker, but his movement combined with his neutral/combo game is OP imo. (the gun nerf was needed tho that shit was busted) Anyway, I love ZSS :) I still think she is the coolest character in the game and I will continue to play her and mald that she isnt better :)
This is insanely accurate, and you didn't even mention her pitiful oos risk reward, and the fact that her grab is actually just a suicide button with a grabbox attached that gets low-profiled a lot and gives her absolutely nothing but a small techchase window and a kill at %170+ on mid weights
I love how Vars is able to manage 3 channels, each with good quality and in depth analysis. I play all 3 games (League, Smash (semi-competitively), and Genshin), yet still learn new things and open my mind to ideas I would never think of
The fact that they're willing to release characters like Steve, Kazuya and Aegis, characters who can just seem to do it all, while simultaneously taking away things that made basegame characters good and fun, will never not make me mad. Especially this far into the game's life. I wish they would give Mewtwo, Sheik, and ZSS a lot of their tools and frame data back from Smash 4 in some kind of finality balance patch along with a myriad of other changes. I'd especially love for K. Rool's reflector drawback to be nerfed and for Ridley to get buffed since they were some of the most anticipated and hyped up characters in the game's history. Characters who are fun to play get punished for being fun meanwhile DLC characters are borderline pay-to-win in the most literal way possible. With that being said, I think every DLC should get some kind of unfair buff if that's the direction they want to keep the game in. Banjo, Plant, and Hero should be just as viable for the same $5, right? idk. It's just crazy to me how "everyone is here" but only ~30% are viable aside from niche matchups. Look at the tier list at 9:00 and remember that Pikachu and Rob have never been nerfed. Wild to me. idk. I'm just mad because I put in the effort to get good with ZSS in Smash 4 without relying on the down throw-up air-up B combo. Learned the character, matchups, neutral, etc but now all my past time feels wasted because you have to play at 100% and never miss a beat with her interactions but the payout is so lackluster compared to what kind of mileage so many other characters get with the same effort. I picked up Pikachu as a secondary early on in the game's life but it's just not the same. Nowhere near as fun to play as ZSS was. She's still alright against bigger characters I'll see sometimes so that they don't fall out of her attacks, like that up B vs Roy at 8:40, but nowhere near as viable as I think she should be. Even in a vacuum without my character bias in it, I think a lot of the nerfs across a lot of characters are not justified anymore considering what the DLC characters are capable of. But that argument holds no weight anymore since Nintendo told us to our face that the game is finished I guess.
I understand what your saying, however I refuse to allow them to buff Hero. I would rather fight a Steve or Kazuya any day of the week as opposed to a Hero, as Hero can unironicaly win thanks to pure luck, while the other dlc’s take skill. Which makes fighting against Hero feel unfair, which I don’t feel fighting a Steve or Kazuya too much. Admittedly though, I am a casual, so the Kazuyas I fight are pretty bad at the game.
@@AceTrainerNaruto I get that. I'm also pretty casual myself these days so my original comment is mostly just me barking in the wind and being mad for the sake of being mad, justified or not, and hammering home the pay-to-win statement. The same case can somewhat be made for Steve but to a much lesser extent considering Hero, with the right RNG, truly has something to just auto win in 90% of interactions. So I will happily oblige and agree with you.
@@DeRez19 It's just baffling to me how they did it on purpose, but so selectively. I get that they were trying to squeeze money out of everybody but man they could have been at least a little less obvious about it. I remember before the tail end of the DLC pack 2 when everyone was clamoring for Pikachu nerfs yet nothing ever happened. I really wish Japan would push for a ZSS buff since that's apparently how she got so heavily nerfed, and especially if it would make her a standout winning pick against Steve players like the video outlined, but like I said, all I can do is be mad since the game is "finished" even though it doesn't have to be. Sakurai is a weird guy.
@@QuasartistSakurai doing Sephiroth dirty because he wanted to make fighter pass 2 "balanced" Japan is also very weird they consider so many mid tiers like Sheik and Bayonetta top tier so they nerf ZSS to be mid tier like them
Another thing that deters people from playing her is her moves not working. I didn’t think it was that big of a deal until recently when i was in a last hit against a mario and they fell out of my side B, up smash, and fair all of which would have killed if they had connected properly which is a problem that i dont think applies to any other character
another thing is ZSS is really really hard to play. she’s an extremely polarizing character that destroys so much of the cast but she’s extremely hard to learn which draws people away from her
On the one hand, having different top tiers makes things interesting cuz now we get Palu and Wario and Ike and all that. On the other, ZSS was still a fun character to play and to watch. For all of that to be taken away feels like that same “gotta break their legs” mentality from Smash 4. While more subtle, it still begs the question if it was needed
they did this character so dirty. Japan's lame campy meta was way too influential in this situation. even I used to play this character and don't anymore after the nerfs
Been waiting for this one for a little while. ZSS undeniably one of the hypest characters in the game but they’re borderline bait for new players because of how weird they play. Won’t stop me
She was actually top 5 before the nerfs and DLC. It’s the exact same story as Smash 4: one of the best at the start of the game, pushed out of the meta by nerfs and DLC If they hadn’t nerfed Boost Kick startup from frame 4 to 6, I’d still probably play her since that nerf took away zair > boost kick, most ladder combos, and weakened her oos game. The Nair nerf also removed nair > nair > flip kick which was an insanely early kill confirm on most of the cast. Plus she was never offered any buffs to compensate akin to Ike or someone hence why I dropped her. Would it have really killed them to let down throw combo into up air again? I don’t think so.
I literally used to main her. I cant even land short hop nair consistently anymore. And if its a short character forget about it. Throw combos are gone and even her tether is shorter. They disected everything that made me main her lol
Someone send this to Marss for him to react to, I really want to see this gremlin getting all relieved and screaming "finally" multiple times in a row over someone else acknowledging the problems with ZSS
The thing is you need to play very clean with zero suit samus in order to win in the actual game, do it that is difficult and very stressful. ZSS was my first main in ultimate, it was very fun to play becasuse she felt fair in her strengths and waknesses, but now it feels like playing her only gives you disadvantage agains your opponent. Luckily she is fast enough to try to compensate her disadvantages
Stopped playing her after they nerfed her two most important assets and butchered the character, the most evil thing Nintendo has done Smash 4 ZSS remains the most authentic and real Samus and oh yean and her combos were more fun back then, 0 to death people, good times
I hope we get one more balance patch that reverts some of zss nerfs and nerfs steve to a fair amount, I really hope they dont gut him because I like minecraft, I dont play steve cause it almost feels unfair at times, but I still think top steve players earned their spots, also I hope sonic gets changes so he can be played more like a rushdown than hit and run
Imo zss is by far the most fun character in the game, both to play against and as. She just has to work so hard for every single matchup. Even the ones she wins easily, she has to play so hard to secure wins.
@@giygas9305 I'm an old head and haven't played smash consistently since Melee. Melee! I bought a SSBU back in 2020 but almost never played it bc I couldn't connect with any character. I played Ganondorf in Melee and they've nerved him into the grave. It wasn't until I picked up Corrin early this year that I fell back in love with the game. Her toolkit is amazing! I'm always surprised that she gets such low representation.
@@giygas9305 yeah that's what I hear. It's still pretty good IMO. But I love her disjoints and air pressure. Not to mention very respectable damage output and kill power. Her combo potential is insane. She doesn't have the greatest projectile but it still provides pressure and can make the opponent approach. Plus It's swaggy hell when it connects at close range.
I was a ZSS main for so long till I saw the changes. I found myself not being able to work for me anymore, and ended up maining my secondary: Dark Pit.
If that happened the patch notes would be like: Donkey Kong forward smash stronger at the strong hit Palutena can grab ledge faster after nair Incineroar super hit in wrestling move more consistent Zero Suit Samus cannot grab anymore ROB down tilt recovery speed is faster Mario final smash deals more knockback
Playing ZSS in tournement is not only hard because she is a complex character, shes also hard because a lot of her bad matchups are common AND strong characters (aegis, wolf, roy... ) at least, that is how I feel in locals when I play zss
ZSS has always been one of my favorite characters in the Smash series. She is my third best character in Brawl and Ultimate, and she was my second best in 4. She's definitely a good character and can still beat down on most of the cast, but unfortunately her worst matchups are too common. The nerfs have definitely damaged her quite a bit, and I honestly can't see her being any higher than high tier on a tier list. People are more experienced with the matchup, some of her moves don't work half the time (such as her up special and fair), the DLC and buffs to some of her even/bad matchups made it evem more difficult to go far with her, and some characters like Sonic can basically do everything ZSS can do but better and more consistently/efficiently. Despite this, I'll still continue to use her as she's both one of my favorite Smash characters to use, she's my best female fighter among the entire cast, she's one of my favorite video game characters in general, and she's been my number one waifu since I was like four or five years old.
Zss has a few major flaws. The first is that she is incredibly difficult to play requiring you play extremely precise to do anything. The second is that her ground moves all kind of suck and aerials basically all have to be landed making her kind of predictable. The third thing is that she gets completely shut down by just shielding. Like seriously, just hold shield and she can't do anything. She has an extremely slow and risky grab with very little reward on her throws and she lacks the shield damage to force opponents out of shield.
You forget how weak she is without the Varia suit. God forbid she’ll take on the most heavyweight fighters such as Bowser, Ganondorf, Ike, King K. Rool, Kazuya, Pythra, Ridley
This was clearly a case of proximity bias against ZSS since her best reps have Nintendo's ear while the rest of the world screams into the void. Shame too since ZSS was like THE poster girl for Smash and making her irrelevant only hurts the overall appeal of Ultimate.
Sakurai should have nerfed the invincibility of flip jump and buffed all of zss' offensive moves like down tilt instead of nerfing her offensive. That would encourage zss players to actually engage with their opponents instead of going for time outs because it's optimal
@@VarsIII going for a time out takes a special individual. I've tried it in a match where my opponent literally refused to play offense. My will power only lasted for about 2 or 3 minutes and ended up pressing anyways. I know coney expressed similar feelings about time outs.
@@VarsIII Still ZSS has to be very patient and attack when the opponent makes a mistake. Some times it's hard to find an opening so players run away in the meantime. I noticed that characters that have campy movesets come from Platformers.
Thia is before watching. Her precision is a problem. Shebhas a big hurtbox and small hitboxes which she has to commit to. The faster the game goes the harder it is to use her. Meanwhile I can't kill with her. Even over 110 I just cant finish the job
People really and I mean REALLY wanted this character nerfed to the ground. There was about 3 years of non-stop zss hate and I felt bad for those mains. For a character that is not easy to master, I thought it was pretty hypocritical every time I saw a cloud or diddy main claim that the matchup was somehow in her favor. I just want to say I judge the crap out of a lot of these mains now. Welp, now they got what they want and to nobody’s surprise, they still can’t get even top 16 at locals.
Someone downgrade their Smash, get buried by ZSS, and then with your bare hands rip your controller in two. I want to see if Vars is correct about that not working.
@@JazzoBeat I wouldn't call Samus a zoner, but rather a hybrid of brawler and zoner. That's why she works and is so popular, because is a pseudo-Zoner who uses her Zoning tools efficiently, kinda like Young Link but with OoS instead of decent movility.
I tried to pick up ZSS in Brawl, Sm4sh and Ultimate, but I couldn’t muster the patience to get the hang of her mobility and making the most out of her attacks. What made me ultimately decide to give up on her though was how often I actually missed with with a lot of her moves. Over time, I started to notice more and more that her attacks connecting through to the end even when used at point blank and landing directly was just not happening. Like what happened with her using her up-b on Roy at point blank in one of the clips here, they’d sometimes completely miss. And sometimes, the first hit would launch the opponent up, but then fail to connect with the second kick. Other attacks also had issues like this, where for some reason, they just pushed the opponent too far out of reach or didn’t do so enough for the most powerful, most important part of the move to actually land. That made it so difficult to gauge wether or not I was actually improving with her and improving my accuracy with her attacks so often that it made me lose all motivation to keep trying with her, especially in Ultimate where there’s nearly 90 other characters I could play which includes multiple that are more consistent and cater much more to my play style, and also yeah, the DLC fighters also really didn’t help her position
The American meta has shifted from valuing good frame data to stray hit kill power. Characters like Kazuya and Incineroar that prey on opponents mistakes are doing better than characters that out neutral their opponents.
It’s funny how you put Ike in the same conversation of Palutena and Wario. Ike is definitely not a top tier or high tier character. He is barely even a mid tier
Yeah, ike went from high tier all the way to low tier because of his nerf. Literally only had the one thing and right around the nerf was when people started to learn that there was counter play to nair.
I suggest a why no one plays Duck hunt because he’s an actual character that I see almost zero people play and it’d be interesting to hear your thoughts on his stats
Good Video Though I think you were misinformed on one thing Japan's Zss players post Quarantine don't get good results and the formerly notable Japanese Zss players Kuro, Choco, and Shky either don't play anymore or don't get good results. Subsequently, on the official tier list, Japan actually had Zss placed 10 spots lower than the overall average. That info can be found on the analysis doc that came out with the official tier list. So Japan actually doesnt think that highly of Zss. As a result Zss only top rep rn is Marss.
you sure it doesn't have something to do with that ZSS is completely awkward, her moves leave her in preset locations (meaning you can't aim like you can with fox or lucario UP B ), her kill potential is low and entirely dependent upon telegraphed smashes that are some of the only ones in the game that require a charge time in order to even use. Her neutral B has no use if it is not charged, and since all of ZSS's combos are preset, it's insanely easy to launch yourself off a stage for a self-kill with a move that won't cancel until it encounters a surface...
What happened to ZSS in Ult still makes me upset. I love this character, she's been a favorite of mine since Brawl yet Ultimate treated her horribly and unfairly with the nerfs compared to her competitors. I dropped her because of her inconsistency but more so because you had to look for a completely different gameplan compared to other nerfed top tiers who kept their options. She's "good" but no longer good enough to keep up with the best and there's not much reason to play her unless you really like her that much since other characters do what she can but better
Jeez, meta really does change people's views on characters. Zero Suit use to be one of the best characters in people's mind all the way up until recently in ultimate. This happened to a few characters like Ike and Cloud and now people think they suck
She’s still good. Nobody plays pikachu and he lacks a player base. He’s an unexplored character just like over half the roster. Blame Japan. Zss reputation was SOO high overseas and thought she was very broken character. Zss players doesn’t have it bad. Edit: People still play Zss
Something else to mention Zss lacks a good grounded punish option. She can't whiff punish anything on the ground reliably. Her fair has too skinny of a hitbox and her grab tilts and smash attacks are too slow. All she has is jab and dash attack. And even then jab is so weak and dash attack is pretty much useless.
Zero Suit Samus was my main in Smash 4 but everything just feels slower in Ultimate, and her down special, while still decent enough for dodging, isn't quite as reliable as it once was. Thankfully Samus with her power suit is finally viable, a character I really liked but had a lot of shortcomings, and just something as small as the morph ball bombs exploding on contact makes a big difference.
The reason why ZSS got nerfed, and why Japan always though she was BROKEN was not because of Marss. It was because with her insane mobility both in the air and ground, as well as flip jump always bailing her out meant that she could just choose to not play the game, similar to Sonic. If she just pokes safe zairs and nairs the entire game, especially with a lead means roughly 75% of the cast simply cannot challenge it. Thats the reason so many Japan top players supported the nerfs, and they were right. ZSS deserved it, choosing to just run away the entire game for timeouts is not fun/engaging, especially if its the most optimal way to play the character. Bit of a shame that people who didn't play the character like that got caught in the crossfire though.
Think you’ve got this completely wrong. The nerfs force you to play ultra conservative like you are describing here. Pre-nerf optimal players were much more aggressive than they are today. Nobody was doing Sonic style timeouts with ZSS and she was more associated with suffocating pressure. Now with the nerfs the risk/reward of going for that pressure is skewed towards risk and you see much more poking with safe zairs all game than you ever did before. Note that she can still poke at people and run away if you want to play that. What she can’t do is get in your face and consistently get kills now because there is too much of this garbage. 8:42
@@mattf5935 both perspectives are right. The nerfs did skew her risk reward into a much more paitent playstyle. However, that pre-nerf suffocating playstyle you mentioned also came with insane confirms and top tier defense. A pre-nerf ZSS player that knew what they were doing was already outrageously hard to hit in neutral, while having a DLC level punish game. A -2 spammable and virtually unpunishable nair that kill confirmed. If that punish didn't result in the removal of your soul from your body, you were now in a serious disadvantage. When you finally managed to stop her movement, your spacing had to be immaculate or you caught a free frame 4 boost kick that kills. This was the one scenario devs actually understood - having that level of offense and defense *on top* of the multiplied difficulty of hitting her in online latency would be untenable for most of the cast. The biggest issue here is that they both nerfed her while neglecting to do the same to other top tiers, and did so without fixing her hitboxes.
@@mattf5935inda true with Marss and in the west, but early Ultimate Japan ZSS? Nah dude, that shit was not good. Japan ZSS was something else. I do agree with you that agressive players have to play more lame now
Hey man, your videos are amazing! I really enjoy them. I was wondering if you had plans to make a Donkey Kong as I'm finding myself really enjoying getting to know that character and your in-depth analysis would certainly help! Anyways thank you!
I agree with your reasons on wht no one plays her. The nerfs were the final straw, does not help she has little reps post nerfs. Ig in NA we have Marss, Sharp, and maybe Shoe?? People don't wanna work for her confirms when Fox/Aegis/Roy exist lmao Also I wonder if Lucina is a candiate for WNOP? The only reps at top level are Proto, Leon (France), and maybe Mr.E? It's basically instead of nerfs its player and meta changes. I wanna know if players finding her boring is actually the reason people dropped her.
ZSS main here from the start. Ive always sucked with her, and I still do. Whenever I play her my biggest gripe is I have to work in all these specific ways to get a kill, then I'll die to literally every single move, any smash from anyone else, dash attacks from other characters, tilts kill her, literally dies to everything while she has to do oddly specific things and work for any kill. You can play another character and press random buttons and do better. Mythra is just as fast and has a fkin sword, and then she can just switch to pyra to kill with any move. That being said, I'll continue to be shitty at the character and losing all the time because shes fun lol.
Im annoyed about the decisions Ultimate had of nerfing low tiers or just ok characters because of an overreaction in the early stages in the game. They had little to no intentions of balancing later in the game’s finial DLC phase and had no intention of fixing the mistakes made at the start of the game
I think this character still has a lot of growth. ZSS mains still stick to their bnb combos. She really needs some experimentation. I saw one video, forget who it was, that was utilized sling shot with zair/side-b. Basically made zss almost untouchable.
Top ZSS players already do that, it just doesn’t net much for them. If you watch marss play you’ll see him go for some of the trickiest, most unexpected plays but they rarely hit because top players are good enough to recognize when they should stay away from a certain area. No matter how slippery you play, you can’t change your characters threat range, and most people just avoid the places ZSS can kill you. This is unfortunately a lot of places, as she isn’t very good at killing.
ZSS is absurdly good but her early kills from hard read down smashes make people play in a style that doesn’t actually suit her toolkit mobility and range
This video kinda shows why I don’t like when devs listen to only one group of players and this goes heavily towards JP devs and JP players because they almost always listen to what the Japanese players say about characters and not what the rest of what the other regions have to say, a good example is Vlov from Type Lumina where here in NA we consider him very strong and should be tweaked or nerf they go ahead and actually buff him because the devs only listen to the JP players because the JP players believe he’s actually not that good and needs help. So when we saw him get buffed us NA players were surprised on why they buffed him. But on a positive note it just the mindset between different regions when it comes to fighting games though it is a double edged sword at certain times like when it comes to buffing/nerfing a character
Hard to find a high caliber zero suit outside of Japan? Marss, Shoe, Doorstop, Sharp, AndrewT, and AoS are all very good zero suits from NA that are high level at worst.
Compare to the shit we have to deal with now, ZSS getting nerfed was unjustified
I think that her getting nerfed was ok, but they nerfed the wrong things. Things like flip kick bury/spike and a combo character's combo starters shouldn't be touched, but they could have changed things like zair and especially how easy it is to say "No" to disadvantage. Making her oos worse is interesting, but not unusual for her archetype.
I mean yeah with other characters like luigy or Kazuya being able to kill you from one interaction yeah ZSS didn’t deserve to get nerfed like this
"she's a hybrid between too many things"
True to series lore then
You could've talked about the fact that she's the only character that can't fastfall neutral airdodge, if she does, she get slower. Great video overall!
Wait what? Fr?
@@milla2235 Yeah, try it yourself, it's faster to fastfall than fastfall neutral airdodge. She get slowed down a bit after the airdodge as if she never fastfalled in the first place
@@kevdeveau1517 Well damn. You learn something new everyday
Ye you can see that around 10:53
@@milla2235 ESAM talked about it a little while ago
We all laughed at Marss as he uttered the words "zss sux". But now look who's laughing. Everyone. Everyone is laughing. We can now definitively say "zss sux"
We all literally had this coming
zss is fine it’s just copium
Marss also says that Zss " literally has everything" lol they need to cope
She still in a decent place on the tier list
You can see just how much a 2 frame start up can cost someone in the meta
It’s landing lag but yeah 😊
@@FlappyCat-ef6oq And that, but I meant the up special
For real 2 frames slower and now like 7 characters that used to get stuffed out can now land safely on your shield.
I think another interesting point is that her moves just don’t work sometimes. If I had a nickle for every time someone has fallen out of fair, up smash, or up b I’d be the new Jeff bezos. Even at 8:42 there is a clip of boost kick completely whiffing a standing still Roy at point blank. That level of inconsistency turns off potential new zss players.
Marss reaction after that says it all
A "Smash is party game moment." lol
Wasn't it blocked?
@@christophermancini3408 It really does feel like that sometimes lol
@@milo4885no the shield wasn’t up yet
Would love to see why nobody plays Meta Knight. Abadango is basically the only rep for the character at top level, and it’s be interesting to analyze his shortcomings since they aren’t obvious on paper. I think that’s why people think of him as a secret high tier.
Brawl PTSD
Meta Knight is low key high tier. Probably on the bottom of it, but he's better than people give him credit for. He has incredible recovery, some of the best edgeguards in the game, his ladder combos can basically kill you starting at 30, he has multiple double jumps on top of being a fast faller, he can straight punish you for ledge trapping him with his teleport attack being able to snap ledge when shielded. The character is very difficult and his up B is sometimes inconsistent. But considering there are other high tier characters with consistency issues like Zero Suit and Bayo I think he still deserves to be acknowledged as such. If you put in the effort he is really damn scary.
+1
@MasterTahirLordofNoobs He has really good mobility and frame data but he has poor range despite being a sword, inconsistent, as well as a very one note playstyle that makes him easy to play against. I would say he's better than people give him credit but not quite high tier
Yes please
I think its not just the nerfs but also the fact that players are much cleaner and more knowledgeable now so its even harder for her to get what she wants. You KNOW she wants you to neutral get up at ledge to get a down smash, you KNOW she wants nair flip kick at what percents, and people are much more effective at dealing with flip kick now as well. That move is still incredible but people used to hella overrate it and now I see people punish it a lot more and be a lot less afraid of it in general, which prob also has to do with the bury not lasting as long. Also just straight up her moves do not work properly a good portion of the time. The amount of times people have fallen out of fair or up smash or boost kick or even up tilt is insane to me, no other character imo has the hitbox issues she does. And on top of that shes very light so she explodes easily. Shes super hard to hit dont get me wrong, but once you hit her she can just die, flip kick being a "get out of disadvantage free" argument is somewhat of a myth at this point imo. People just didnt know how to deal with it effectively in the beginning but now if you havent caught on to how to punish it, its literally your fault at this point.
I also agree with what Muteace said in his video that her wins in neutral typically get her middling rewards unless you go fuckin ultra instinct and read every decision your opponent makes in their disadvantage. Shes my favorite character in the game and I will always play her but it absolutely sucks that playing her is very frustrating and feels not worth it in a bracket setting. Insane to me that this game will give you characters like Rob and Pikachu and NEVER nerf them, but nerf ZSS?? Like what?? What about Joker my dudes?? That eiha/eigaon nerf was not enough imo, and I main Joker, but his movement combined with his neutral/combo game is OP imo. (the gun nerf was needed tho that shit was busted)
Anyway, I love ZSS :) I still think she is the coolest character in the game and I will continue to play her and mald that she isnt better :)
"No other character has the hitbox issues she does."
*cries in pit main*
@@NostalgiaConnoisseur valid point I have barely touched Pit so I wouldnt know, but I feel for you comrade. We're in this together
ZSS is still used more in tournaments than pikachu I think.
@@legrandliseurtri7495who places better tho? Amount of people playing them doesn’t really matter
This is insanely accurate, and you didn't even mention her pitiful oos risk reward, and the fact that her grab is actually just a suicide button with a grabbox attached that gets low-profiled a lot and gives her absolutely nothing but a small techchase window and a kill at %170+ on mid weights
I love how Vars is able to manage 3 channels, each with good quality and in depth analysis. I play all 3 games (League, Smash (semi-competitively), and Genshin), yet still learn new things and open my mind to ideas I would never think of
The fact that they're willing to release characters like Steve, Kazuya and Aegis, characters who can just seem to do it all, while simultaneously taking away things that made basegame characters good and fun, will never not make me mad. Especially this far into the game's life. I wish they would give Mewtwo, Sheik, and ZSS a lot of their tools and frame data back from Smash 4 in some kind of finality balance patch along with a myriad of other changes. I'd especially love for K. Rool's reflector drawback to be nerfed and for Ridley to get buffed since they were some of the most anticipated and hyped up characters in the game's history. Characters who are fun to play get punished for being fun meanwhile DLC characters are borderline pay-to-win in the most literal way possible. With that being said, I think every DLC should get some kind of unfair buff if that's the direction they want to keep the game in. Banjo, Plant, and Hero should be just as viable for the same $5, right? idk. It's just crazy to me how "everyone is here" but only ~30% are viable aside from niche matchups. Look at the tier list at 9:00 and remember that Pikachu and Rob have never been nerfed. Wild to me.
idk. I'm just mad because I put in the effort to get good with ZSS in Smash 4 without relying on the down throw-up air-up B combo. Learned the character, matchups, neutral, etc but now all my past time feels wasted because you have to play at 100% and never miss a beat with her interactions but the payout is so lackluster compared to what kind of mileage so many other characters get with the same effort. I picked up Pikachu as a secondary early on in the game's life but it's just not the same. Nowhere near as fun to play as ZSS was. She's still alright against bigger characters I'll see sometimes so that they don't fall out of her attacks, like that up B vs Roy at 8:40, but nowhere near as viable as I think she should be. Even in a vacuum without my character bias in it, I think a lot of the nerfs across a lot of characters are not justified anymore considering what the DLC characters are capable of. But that argument holds no weight anymore since Nintendo told us to our face that the game is finished I guess.
I understand what your saying, however I refuse to allow them to buff Hero. I would rather fight a Steve or Kazuya any day of the week as opposed to a Hero, as Hero can unironicaly win thanks to pure luck, while the other dlc’s take skill. Which makes fighting against Hero feel unfair, which I don’t feel fighting a Steve or Kazuya too much. Admittedly though, I am a casual, so the Kazuyas I fight are pretty bad at the game.
@@AceTrainerNaruto I get that. I'm also pretty casual myself these days so my original comment is mostly just me barking in the wind and being mad for the sake of being mad, justified or not, and hammering home the pay-to-win statement. The same case can somewhat be made for Steve but to a much lesser extent considering Hero, with the right RNG, truly has something to just auto win in 90% of interactions. So I will happily oblige and agree with you.
They obviously did that on purpose to get people to buy the DLC. They seem so hypocritical when you look at this, then watch Sakurai's channel lol
@@DeRez19 It's just baffling to me how they did it on purpose, but so selectively. I get that they were trying to squeeze money out of everybody but man they could have been at least a little less obvious about it. I remember before the tail end of the DLC pack 2 when everyone was clamoring for Pikachu nerfs yet nothing ever happened. I really wish Japan would push for a ZSS buff since that's apparently how she got so heavily nerfed, and especially if it would make her a standout winning pick against Steve players like the video outlined, but like I said, all I can do is be mad since the game is "finished" even though it doesn't have to be. Sakurai is a weird guy.
@@QuasartistSakurai doing Sephiroth dirty because he wanted to make fighter pass 2 "balanced"
Japan is also very weird they consider so many mid tiers like Sheik and Bayonetta top tier so they nerf ZSS to be mid tier like them
It's a shame nobody plays her that much anymore. She's an interesting character to watch.
She's an interesting character to WATCH 😳
My three mains made it to the list!
Sheik, ZSS, and Joker
I feel sorry for you😂
How do you feel about Greninja
@@itsyaboychipsahoy.7989 he's pretty chill, and i actually play him in pokemon unite, so i respect the frog
Another thing that deters people from playing her is her moves not working. I didn’t think it was that big of a deal until recently when i was in a last hit against a mario and they fell out of my side B, up smash, and fair all of which would have killed if they had connected properly which is a problem that i dont think applies to any other character
Fighting a ZSS main as Greninja is the most fun i'll ever have playing Smash. It always ends up turning into a Dragon Ball Z Fight
Idk what that means, but if you’re having fun the ZSS almost certainly isn’t. He is damn near impossible to hit
As a Plant main, I hope I never have to play against either of you.
Zss is way better than Greninja imo
it’s so sad that she got nerfed so hard, completely unjustified imo. one of the coolest characters in the game
Samus had her own curse
It was justified she was pretty much top tier is 3 games
another thing is ZSS is really really hard to play. she’s an extremely polarizing character that destroys so much of the cast but she’s extremely hard to learn which draws people away from her
She is also weaker than her wearing a Varia suit. Also, prone to take more damage than her wearing the Varia suit.
Yes, I've waited for this video, you've now covered my main, my secondary and my tertiary
When explaining her archetype, she kind of also has a sonic archetype, she seems to have some run, flip out and reset neutral
I think a “why no one plays Lucas” would be cool. Cuz honestly,I never understood why Lucas isn’t considered at-least top of high tier.
On the one hand, having different top tiers makes things interesting cuz now we get Palu and Wario and Ike and all that. On the other, ZSS was still a fun character to play and to watch. For all of that to be taken away feels like that same “gotta break their legs” mentality from Smash 4. While more subtle, it still begs the question if it was needed
they did this character so dirty. Japan's lame campy meta was way too influential in this situation. even I used to play this character and don't anymore after the nerfs
Zss has some of the weirdest tools possible to throw on a character but she just works sometimes
Everyone after seeing ZZS in Brawl: SAMUS' A WOMAN?! (Adventure Time Meme)
I love how when Vars3 talks about how different Sames and ZSS are shows footage of dark Samus I know there ecos but still LOL 😂
Been waiting for this one for a little while. ZSS undeniably one of the hypest characters in the game but they’re borderline bait for new players because of how weird they play. Won’t stop me
I think a cool inversion of this kind of video would be "why more people should play x character"
Corrin deserves this
@@DeRez19 Corrin feels like Robin, without the resource, but is easier to understand.
She was actually top 5 before the nerfs and DLC. It’s the exact same story as Smash 4: one of the best at the start of the game, pushed out of the meta by nerfs and DLC
If they hadn’t nerfed Boost Kick startup from frame 4 to 6, I’d still probably play her since that nerf took away zair > boost kick, most ladder combos, and weakened her oos game. The Nair nerf also removed nair > nair > flip kick which was an insanely early kill confirm on most of the cast. Plus she was never offered any buffs to compensate akin to Ike or someone hence why I dropped her. Would it have really killed them to let down throw combo into up air again? I don’t think so.
I literally used to main her. I cant even land short hop nair consistently anymore. And if its a short character forget about it. Throw combos are gone and even her tether is shorter. They disected everything that made me main her lol
Someone send this to Marss for him to react to, I really want to see this gremlin getting all relieved and screaming "finally" multiple times in a row over someone else acknowledging the problems with ZSS
I bet he could write a book about all the things that are flawed in her design. He’ll have more to add I bet.
The thing is you need to play very clean with zero suit samus in order to win in the actual game, do it that is difficult and very stressful. ZSS was my first main in ultimate, it was very fun to play becasuse she felt fair in her strengths and waknesses, but now it feels like playing her only gives you disadvantage agains your opponent. Luckily she is fast enough to try to compensate her disadvantages
Stopped playing her after they nerfed her two most important assets and butchered the character, the most evil thing Nintendo has done
Smash 4 ZSS remains the most authentic and real Samus and oh yean and her combos were more fun back then, 0 to death people, good times
Her natural air nerf in my opinion is what ruined her.
And her initial dash was the fastest in the game until mythra surpassed it.
I hope we get one more balance patch that reverts some of zss nerfs and nerfs steve to a fair amount, I really hope they dont gut him because I like minecraft, I dont play steve cause it almost feels unfair at times, but I still think top steve players earned their spots, also I hope sonic gets changes so he can be played more like a rushdown than hit and run
A pipe dream that could adjust all the jank but atlas Sakurai took his coat and left.
Imo zss is by far the most fun character in the game, both to play against and as. She just has to work so hard for every single matchup. Even the ones she wins easily, she has to play so hard to secure wins.
Can't wait for why no one plays Corrin!
We forgot about corrin so hard that we forgot no one plays corrin
Bro I went from Smash 4 to Ultimate, kinda hyped to finally play the DLC characters and was pretty disappointed with Corrin
@@giygas9305 I'm an old head and haven't played smash consistently since Melee. Melee! I bought a SSBU back in 2020 but almost never played it bc I couldn't connect with any character. I played Ganondorf in Melee and they've nerved him into the grave. It wasn't until I picked up Corrin early this year that I fell back in love with the game. Her toolkit is amazing! I'm always surprised that she gets such low representation.
@@Transfixion I think my biggest disappointment was that Corrin’s down special has been totally gutted. It was busted in Smash 4
@@giygas9305 yeah that's what I hear. It's still pretty good IMO. But I love her disjoints and air pressure. Not to mention very respectable damage output and kill power. Her combo potential is insane. She doesn't have the greatest projectile but it still provides pressure and can make the opponent approach. Plus It's swaggy hell when it connects at close range.
I was a ZSS main for so long till I saw the changes. I found myself not being able to work for me anymore, and ended up maining my secondary: Dark Pit.
Man I wish they'd give us one last patch :/
If that happened the patch notes would be like:
Donkey Kong forward smash stronger at the strong hit
Palutena can grab ledge faster after nair
Incineroar super hit in wrestling move more consistent
Zero Suit Samus cannot grab anymore
ROB down tilt recovery speed is faster
Mario final smash deals more knockback
Playing ZSS in tournement is not only hard because she is a complex character, shes also hard because a lot of her bad matchups are common AND strong characters (aegis, wolf, roy... ) at least, that is how I feel in locals when I play zss
Little Mac: *gets destroyed by everyone*
@@therealjaystone2344 Little Mac can punish harder than most brawlers, but he himself can be punished harder than most brawlers.
ZSS has always been one of my favorite characters in the Smash series. She is my third best character in Brawl and Ultimate, and she was my second best in 4. She's definitely a good character and can still beat down on most of the cast, but unfortunately her worst matchups are too common. The nerfs have definitely damaged her quite a bit, and I honestly can't see her being any higher than high tier on a tier list. People are more experienced with the matchup, some of her moves don't work half the time (such as her up special and fair), the DLC and buffs to some of her even/bad matchups made it evem more difficult to go far with her, and some characters like Sonic can basically do everything ZSS can do but better and more consistently/efficiently. Despite this, I'll still continue to use her as she's both one of my favorite Smash characters to use, she's my best female fighter among the entire cast, she's one of my favorite video game characters in general, and she's been my number one waifu since I was like four or five years old.
Zss has a few major flaws. The first is that she is incredibly difficult to play requiring you play extremely precise to do anything. The second is that her ground moves all kind of suck and aerials basically all have to be landed making her kind of predictable. The third thing is that she gets completely shut down by just shielding. Like seriously, just hold shield and she can't do anything. She has an extremely slow and risky grab with very little reward on her throws and she lacks the shield damage to force opponents out of shield.
You forget how weak she is without the Varia suit. God forbid she’ll take on the most heavyweight fighters such as Bowser, Ganondorf, Ike, King K. Rool, Kazuya, Pythra, Ridley
This was clearly a case of proximity bias against ZSS since her best reps have Nintendo's ear while the rest of the world screams into the void. Shame too since ZSS was like THE poster girl for Smash and making her irrelevant only hurts the overall appeal of Ultimate.
Sakurai should have nerfed the invincibility of flip jump and buffed all of zss' offensive moves like down tilt instead of nerfing her offensive. That would encourage zss players to actually engage with their opponents instead of going for time outs because it's optimal
Yeah ZSS can camp hard but I don't think I've ever seen a ZSS player time out before lol
@@VarsIII going for a time out takes a special individual. I've tried it in a match where my opponent literally refused to play offense. My will power only lasted for about 2 or 3 minutes and ended up pressing anyways. I know coney expressed similar feelings about time outs.
@@VarsIII Still ZSS has to be very patient and attack when the opponent makes a mistake. Some times it's hard to find an opening so players run away in the meantime.
I noticed that characters that have campy movesets come from Platformers.
I don't even need to watch the video. It's because every other main finally bullied ZSS mains out of the game.
We need a reaction to this from Marss
How long before the mars reaction video
Thia is before watching. Her precision is a problem. Shebhas a big hurtbox and small hitboxes which she has to commit to. The faster the game goes the harder it is to use her. Meanwhile I can't kill with her. Even over 110 I just cant finish the job
People really and I mean REALLY wanted this character nerfed to the ground.
There was about 3 years of non-stop zss hate and I felt bad for those mains. For a character that is not easy to master, I thought it was pretty hypocritical every time I saw a cloud or diddy main claim that the matchup was somehow in her favor. I just want to say I judge the crap out of a lot of these mains now. Welp, now they got what they want and to nobody’s surprise, they still can’t get even top 16 at locals.
Nerfing probably the most stylish character is just sad times in general.
I didn’t know ZSS would be featured in this damn did she really fall?
Someone downgrade their Smash, get buried by ZSS, and then with your bare hands rip your controller in two. I want to see if Vars is correct about that not working.
Can you talk about why no one uses Villager and Isabelle?
That would be interesting as a Villager Main
Tl;dr: Better Zoners exist
@@Mr__Jack yeah
Too much reliant on some tools and overall better zooners like snake and samus
@@JazzoBeat I wouldn't call Samus a zoner, but rather a hybrid of brawler and zoner. That's why she works and is so popular, because is a pseudo-Zoner who uses her Zoning tools efficiently, kinda like Young Link but with OoS instead of decent movility.
Zss is kinda funny in this regard bc you never get practice and then you get a random sweat who smacks you down easily for the first stock
I tried to pick up ZSS in Brawl, Sm4sh and Ultimate, but I couldn’t muster the patience to get the hang of her mobility and making the most out of her attacks. What made me ultimately decide to give up on her though was how often I actually missed with with a lot of her moves. Over time, I started to notice more and more that her attacks connecting through to the end even when used at point blank and landing directly was just not happening. Like what happened with her using her up-b on Roy at point blank in one of the clips here, they’d sometimes completely miss. And sometimes, the first hit would launch the opponent up, but then fail to connect with the second kick. Other attacks also had issues like this, where for some reason, they just pushed the opponent too far out of reach or didn’t do so enough for the most powerful, most important part of the move to actually land.
That made it so difficult to gauge wether or not I was actually improving with her and improving my accuracy with her attacks so often that it made me lose all motivation to keep trying with her, especially in Ultimate where there’s nearly 90 other characters I could play which includes multiple that are more consistent and cater much more to my play style, and also yeah, the DLC fighters also really didn’t help her position
The American meta has shifted from valuing good frame data to stray hit kill power. Characters like Kazuya and Incineroar that prey on opponents mistakes are doing better than characters that out neutral their opponents.
It’s funny how you put Ike in the same conversation of Palutena and Wario.
Ike is definitely not a top tier or high tier character.
He is barely even a mid tier
Yeah, ike went from high tier all the way to low tier because of his nerf. Literally only had the one thing and right around the nerf was when people started to learn that there was counter play to nair.
I suggest a why no one plays Duck hunt because he’s an actual character that I see almost zero people play and it’d be interesting to hear your thoughts on his stats
I try to play him because I like the setups, but bro has no killing moves except up air, can and the smash attacks(but those are not great)
@@plabcentral630 agreed
Good Video
Though I think you were misinformed on one thing
Japan's Zss players post Quarantine don't get good results and the formerly notable Japanese Zss players Kuro, Choco, and Shky either don't play anymore or don't get good results. Subsequently, on the official tier list, Japan actually had Zss placed 10 spots lower than the overall average. That info can be found on the analysis doc that came out with the official tier list. So Japan actually doesnt think that highly of Zss. As a result Zss only top rep rn is Marss.
**Marss has entered the chat**
you forgot to mention that a lot of his moves just don't work as they should
I loved ZSS for a long time, but the extra startup on upB killed her for me.
Why no one play banjo, ones of the most wanted dlc characters and no one plays em
Each time you make a "why no one play this character " I see only this character online lol
I've been a ZSS main for 3 years now.. I still remember the day she got her hair nerfed. so painful
you sure it doesn't have something to do with that ZSS is completely awkward, her moves leave her in preset locations (meaning you can't aim like you can with fox or lucario UP B ), her kill potential is low and entirely dependent upon telegraphed smashes that are some of the only ones in the game that require a charge time in order to even use. Her neutral B has no use if it is not charged, and since all of ZSS's combos are preset, it's insanely easy to launch yourself off a stage for a self-kill with a move that won't cancel until it encounters a surface...
You're in for a treat, so hang on to your seat
What happened to ZSS in Ult still makes me upset. I love this character, she's been a favorite of mine since Brawl yet Ultimate treated her horribly and unfairly with the nerfs compared to her competitors.
I dropped her because of her inconsistency but more so because you had to look for a completely different gameplan compared to other nerfed top tiers who kept their options. She's "good" but no longer good enough to keep up with the best and there's not much reason to play her unless you really like her that much since other characters do what she can but better
Hoping for a Everyone plays Palutena and No One plays Corrin in the future!
I would’ve much preferred that none of that stuff got nerfed but that they took away some of flip kick’s invincibility.
Still glad about the steve bans
Jeez, meta really does change people's views on characters. Zero Suit use to be one of the best characters in people's mind all the way up until recently in ultimate. This happened to a few characters like Ike and Cloud and now people think they suck
To be fair she is hard, and got nerfed over and over
i would love to see why no one plays lucario
because he sucks
Pika has been top 3 since patch 1.0, better nerf ZSS for no fkn reason
She’s still good. Nobody plays pikachu and he lacks a player base. He’s an unexplored character just like over half the roster. Blame Japan. Zss reputation was SOO high overseas and thought she was very broken character. Zss players doesn’t have it bad.
Edit: People still play Zss
@@TwilightWonderer shes garbage compared to dlc powercreep and untouched base game cringe such as "free win pick" aka Rob
Something else to mention
Zss lacks a good grounded punish option. She can't whiff punish anything on the ground reliably. Her fair has too skinny of a hitbox and her grab tilts and smash attacks are too slow.
All she has is jab and dash attack. And even then jab is so weak and dash attack is pretty much useless.
But forward tilt
Stays top 20
Why no one plays Lucas vid coming soon?
Zero Suit Samus was my main in Smash 4 but everything just feels slower in Ultimate, and her down special, while still decent enough for dodging, isn't quite as reliable as it once was. Thankfully Samus with her power suit is finally viable, a character I really liked but had a lot of shortcomings, and just something as small as the morph ball bombs exploding on contact makes a big difference.
The reason why ZSS got nerfed, and why Japan always though she was BROKEN was not because of Marss. It was because with her insane mobility both in the air and ground, as well as flip jump always bailing her out meant that she could just choose to not play the game, similar to Sonic. If she just pokes safe zairs and nairs the entire game, especially with a lead means roughly 75% of the cast simply cannot challenge it. Thats the reason so many Japan top players supported the nerfs, and they were right. ZSS deserved it, choosing to just run away the entire game for timeouts is not fun/engaging, especially if its the most optimal way to play the character. Bit of a shame that people who didn't play the character like that got caught in the crossfire though.
Think you’ve got this completely wrong. The nerfs force you to play ultra conservative like you are describing here. Pre-nerf optimal players were much more aggressive than they are today. Nobody was doing Sonic style timeouts with ZSS and she was more associated with suffocating pressure. Now with the nerfs the risk/reward of going for that pressure is skewed towards risk and you see much more poking with safe zairs all game than you ever did before. Note that she can still poke at people and run away if you want to play that. What she can’t do is get in your face and consistently get kills now because there is too much of this garbage. 8:42
@@mattf5935 both perspectives are right. The nerfs did skew her risk reward into a much more paitent playstyle. However, that pre-nerf suffocating playstyle you mentioned also came with insane confirms and top tier defense.
A pre-nerf ZSS player that knew what they were doing was already outrageously hard to hit in neutral, while having a DLC level punish game. A -2 spammable and virtually unpunishable nair that kill confirmed. If that punish didn't result in the removal of your soul from your body, you were now in a serious disadvantage. When you finally managed to stop her movement, your spacing had to be immaculate or you caught a free frame 4 boost kick that kills.
This was the one scenario devs actually understood - having that level of offense and defense *on top* of the multiplied difficulty of hitting her in online latency would be untenable for most of the cast. The biggest issue here is that they both nerfed her while neglecting to do the same to other top tiers, and did so without fixing her hitboxes.
@@mattf5935inda true with Marss and in the west, but early Ultimate Japan ZSS? Nah dude, that shit was not good. Japan ZSS was something else. I do agree with you that agressive players have to play more lame now
@@mattf5935 So she's like Sonic in that they can run away, but unlike Sonic ZSS has a better jump.
@@orangeslash1667precisely
Hey man, your videos are amazing! I really enjoy them. I was wondering if you had plans to make a Donkey Kong as I'm finding myself really enjoying getting to know that character and your in-depth analysis would certainly help! Anyways thank you!
I used to watch those videos but its really hard to watch after i switched to hdr mod. Im ZSS main but she looks like a heavy in ultimate xD
Why does nobody play RYU?
Other fighting game characters are much more threatening and their movesets translate into smash gameplay better
Time for "Why X plays Samus" to round out the Metroid character trilogy
Even Marss doesn't play ZSS anymore, and he's the poster child for ZSS and mashing.
Here before Marss makes a react video on this exact piece of content
Update: took about ten days from when I made this comment
This is a character with serious skills piloted by Marss, one of the best pros. I wish you would only use these titles for actual low tiers.
I agree with your reasons on wht no one plays her. The nerfs were the final straw, does not help she has little reps post nerfs. Ig in NA we have Marss, Sharp, and maybe Shoe?? People don't wanna work for her confirms when Fox/Aegis/Roy exist lmao
Also I wonder if Lucina is a candiate for WNOP? The only reps at top level are Proto, Leon (France), and maybe Mr.E? It's basically instead of nerfs its player and meta changes. I wanna know if players finding her boring is actually the reason people dropped her.
ZSS main here from the start. Ive always sucked with her, and I still do. Whenever I play her my biggest gripe is I have to work in all these specific ways to get a kill, then I'll die to literally every single move, any smash from anyone else, dash attacks from other characters, tilts kill her, literally dies to everything while she has to do oddly specific things and work for any kill. You can play another character and press random buttons and do better. Mythra is just as fast and has a fkin sword, and then she can just switch to pyra to kill with any move. That being said, I'll continue to be shitty at the character and losing all the time because shes fun lol.
Im annoyed about the decisions Ultimate had of nerfing low tiers or just ok characters because of an overreaction in the early stages in the game. They had little to no intentions of balancing later in the game’s finial DLC phase and had no intention of fixing the mistakes made at the start of the game
joker's video should be why no one have results with joker
Not sure why, but your mic seems very low. I have to have my phone volume maxed out to hear you decently.
Marss would like to know your location.
I’m pretty sure Marss would have a fun day with this
I think this character still has a lot of growth. ZSS mains still stick to their bnb combos. She really needs some experimentation.
I saw one video, forget who it was, that was utilized sling shot with zair/side-b. Basically made zss almost untouchable.
Top ZSS players already do that, it just doesn’t net much for them. If you watch marss play you’ll see him go for some of the trickiest, most unexpected plays but they rarely hit because top players are good enough to recognize when they should stay away from a certain area. No matter how slippery you play, you can’t change your characters threat range, and most people just avoid the places ZSS can kill you. This is unfortunately a lot of places, as she isn’t very good at killing.
The infamous down throw nerf is one reason.
Its just sad that one of the coolest characters was nerfed so hard
ZSS is absurdly good but her early kills from hard read down smashes make people play in a style that doesn’t actually suit her toolkit mobility and range
Can u make a video on corrin?
Idk about you but I've seen ZSS everywhere lately
This video kinda shows why I don’t like when devs listen to only one group of players and this goes heavily towards JP devs and JP players because they almost always listen to what the Japanese players say about characters and not what the rest of what the other regions have to say, a good example is Vlov from Type Lumina where here in NA we consider him very strong and should be tweaked or nerf they go ahead and actually buff him because the devs only listen to the JP players because the JP players believe he’s actually not that good and needs help. So when we saw him get buffed us NA players were surprised on why they buffed him. But on a positive note it just the mindset between different regions when it comes to fighting games though it is a double edged sword at certain times like when it comes to buffing/nerfing a character
Yup, basically nair and up B. Not that the other nerfs weren't consequential but those two nerfs really dropped her from S tier.
Hard to find a high caliber zero suit outside of Japan? Marss, Shoe, Doorstop, Sharp, AndrewT, and AoS are all very good zero suits from NA that are high level at worst.
Can you do a video about Olimar?