I think there was a chance when he believed she had not been a virgin before they married. Obviously he would not forgive her, but he might not execute her. When he found out she had been seeing a man while married to him, he fate was sealed. She had cuckolded him and she was doomed.
@@indiciaobscure I’ve always thought similarly. Undisclosed impurity before marriage? Divorce, disgrace, end of story. Achieve adultery whilst wed? As a woman that was a death sentence. I believe mercy may have been possible, depending on the charges that ended up being brought against her. Compared to what happened to Anne, Henry certainly seemed reluctant and made up a decidedly more proper trial. It seemed as if he would’ve been willing to show clemency, but as you said, he couldn’t brook being a cuckhold.
Out of all Henrys wives, I feel for this poor girl! I feel for Anne Boleyn too, but Catherine was so young. She had her whole life ahead of her. And, I think she was in way over her head! Everyone wanted something from her. It's just sad.
One thing I wonder about is the amount of time events took to transpire for Katherine, in comparison to how fast Anne Boleyn's fall took? Anne was arrested, condemned and executed within a few short weeks, but in Katherine's case the arrest takes place in early November but her execution didn't happen until February the following year? Was Henry in some mind to pardon Katherine even after knowing her guilt? What are your thoughts on this Claire?
Yes, it always strikes me. This was a proper and thorough investigation and Catherine and one of her ladies were executed, and lots of others were imprisoned, plus the men were executed too. It was very different. I do think that that, plus Henry VIII's shocked reaction and grief, point to this being real and 1536 being a complete farce.
I think it also had to do with Henry already having met Anne´s substitute (Jane) and wanting to marry her. When He executed Katherine, he hadn´t any other young lady waiting to be marry.
My theory is that Jane Seymour was already pregnant, hence the added need for urgency. She had a miscarriage before her successful pregnancy with Edward I believe
I can't even begin to imagine being in poor Catherine's skin at that time. I would have tried anything to get off the hook. She was so young and naive, and she may have been able to survive it had she stuck to her story. I feel as if Henry may have believed her if she had only kept it together and said that they were lying on her, but after having blurted everything out she could hang it up and forget about it! What was done was done. In Henry's court the best thing one could do was not tell any secrets to anyone because even a bff could turn on you for money, positions, titles, or just pure jealousy! There were no friends at court I would imagine, and Henry most definitely was not loyal to anyone. He could turn at a moment's notice! But she was a child, although at the time she wasn't thought of as one. She should have been sent to a nunnery or some alternative if for nothing more than her being so young. She truly had no way out!
I think so too. I think if she had stuck to her story he would have believed her.The message from Henry saying that he would show mercy if she confessed was just a test. Unfortunately, in her innocence she believed him.
AmazinGraceXOXO1 but she wasn’t innocent. She had numerous affairs with other men and these were corroborated by other girls in her household. By today’s standards she would be considered a harlot. Unfortunately for her, she was married to the kind of England and really ought to have known better.
@@clairemangan3235 By today's standards, she was a normal, sexually active teenager who was sexually initiated by much older, experienced men in a home where this was tolerated and enabled by people who were supposed to have this girl's best interests at heart. Ought to have known better? How exactly was she to have known what no one taught her? Well, I guess she learned, didn't she, when they beheaded her. Sorry for the bitter tone, but she was just a girl who got used. Who was there to speak up for her, to get her banished into exile, placed in a nunnery or whatever? Why did she have to die?
@@clairemangan3235 :'Harlot' is a bit strong, isn't it? She was young and daft and neglected. It`s hardly surprising she went astray. She may not have known enough to realise how dangerous her situation was but Culpepper knew.
As someone who works with sexual assault survivors, I think all of her behavior is consistent with what you’d expect from a young sexual abuse survivor. Including the exchange of gifts, and feeling strong bonds to Derhem. That’s how grooming works. It wouldn’t surprise me if she tied her sense of self worth with her ability to please men. Including the rage, and revising her story under duress. Six did an amazing job of capturing the complexity of Katherine’s sexual abuse and grooming with a jazzy pop number... ruclips.net/video/iodNoJHrei4/видео.html
I wonder what would have happened had she stuck to her story before she changed it by throwing Dereham to the wolves. Poor thing - she was grasping for straws at that point out of terror. I can only imagine how terrified she must have been.
I think she might just have been set aside instead as Cranmer could easily have annulled the marriage had she also agreed to it constituting a pre-contract.
@@anneboleynfiles One author I read-- Alison Weir, maybe?-- said that Cranmer was trying to give Catherine an "out" by trying to get her to agree to pre-contract with Dereham, but Catherine wasn't clever enough to see that a life preserver was being thrown to her.
Poor Catherine...she was a pawn of her Uncle to gain favor with the King. How frightened she must have been. Thank you Claire for sharing hopefully tomorrow will be better!
What makes you say that she was a pawn of her uncle? She was appointed to serve Anne of Cleves and caught the king's eye at court then. There is no evidence of her uncle pushing her at the king, and I expect the Howard panicked when they did find out about her and the king.
The Anne Boleyn Files and Tudor Society I’m probably bad because I based this opinion from watching the 6 Wives of Henry VIII here in the US when it hit Masterpiece Theater in the early 70’s. I was about 12 or 13 & didn’t really know about Henry & his wives.! I remember thinking it was like a tug of war between the Catholics & the reformers for power! Which wife could they get in there!!! It made a huge impression & I never forgot how I felt! Maybe Norfolk thought it was good luck to have his niece as Queen..,but then when she fell..not so much :/
Catherine has always intrigued me. They say the ghost of Catherine runs screaming for Henry in Hampton Court to this day. I can only imagine what the poor young woman was going through. And still is, if the reports of ghost sightings are anything to go by.
I like to get my head out of our current time period & try to put it in theirs, but I truly cannot imagine my bedfellow bringing in a man & having a good time.
Yes, Mary Lascelles had a legitimate grievance about this. Yet for some reason she didn't rat Catherine out at the time. It took her brother John Lascelles to bring out the allegations years later. Of her own accord, Mary would have held her tongue though having no great liking for Catherine. It's worth noting that Catherine's uncle Thomas Howard was a religious/political opponent of John Lascelles. Just sayin'.
Henry threw her a crumb of hope and she took it, only to lose her life anyway. Her last days must have been hideous and she was only a teen. That's more than a mature, more worldly knowledgeable woman would have been able to bear. Too, too sad.
To be fair to Henry, he offered a DEAL: She has to tell the truth. She couild not seem to manage that... although I am not sure it really would have changed her fate.
It's funny how you are on alert for high winds in Spain and here on the other side of the world in Victoria, Australia at the moment we are also dealing with gale force winds.
I watched this for a second time, because I'm so very much intrigued by Catherine Howard's story. She in many ways like Anne Boleyn had seemed to be erased from portraiture and forgotten by King Henry as to probably save himself from the heartache that I imagine he must have suffered because he seemed to live her very much. He didn't even at first want to believe the allegations. This speaks volumes about how he felt for her. He didn't care about anyone else that he had executed in that way. She was so young and probably very beautiful, and I say this because we truly don't know which portrait is really her true likeness, but he could have just forgiven her and probably had many babies with her, if he was still physically capable of doing the deed! I hate that she had to be murdered because she was so naive and so young, and probably knew very little about how things worked with King Henry, except that if you cross him your head doesn't stay on for long!! Oh, n not to be goofy or funny, but could you imagine how her bedfellow must have looked when she was "making cheer"! I pictured in my mind a young teen with eyes as wide as saucers, lying there with the covers pulled all the way up to her eyes! Thinking, " OMG, what is going on in this world right now!" It would have been funny to see the look on her poor young face in this world and crazy situation!! I hope she at least got some wine and strawberries to calm her down after dealing with those crazies! Lol!!
I think she is the most unfortunate of Henry’s wives. She was very young and in a hopeless position. I don’t think Henry ever intended to be merciful; his wounded pride would not allow it.
When I next visit London I plan to visit St. Peter ad Vincula and lay flowers for her and for Anne Boleyn and the others. The "saddest place on earth". Thank you for this! Love from NY
I hope you’re safe Claire! It’s windy here in the state of Victoria in Australia too. I do feel for Catherine Howard. She was so young and perhaps naïve. She shouldn’t have been unfaithful. My question is, did Henry VIII have her killed because she was unfaithful during their marriage, or was it that she didn’t disclose her past liaisons and wasn’t a virgin? I’m a bit tired at the moment, so I’ve probably missed that explanation. Thanks as always Claire for these great daily videos! Even on the bad days I love learning about Tudor history!
It's not bad at all, just blustery and it sounds worse than it is. I hope you're ok there. I think Henry may well have been inclined to just set her aside if she had agreed that her relationship with Dereham constituted marriage and so her marriage to Henry was bigamous. That is what Cranmer was trying to get from her, but she stubbornly denied it. In those times, for a marriage to be valid in the eyes of the church, a couple just needed to make promises to each other and then consummate their relationship. Catherine and Dereham called each other husband and wife, and they'd slept together, that could well have been a marriage. If only she had agreed to that! Of course, the subsequent investigations brought forth the Culpeper affair too.
The Anne Boleyn Files and Tudor Society Thank you. We’re ok here and lucky we’re not getting any damaging winds. Just blustery which is annoying but ok. I had temporarily forgotten that with marriages in Tudor times that all’s they needed to do to be married was to promise to each other that they were husband and wife. Indeed she may have been simply put aside if she’d just admitted she’d been married to Dereham. However once it was known about Culpepper, Henry VIII would have punished her more harshly anyway than just simply setting her aside
Claire, I know Henry Mannox was released but is there any documentation as to what he actually confessed about knowing Catherine?. I always assumed he was not tried because he had no contact with Catherine after she became Queen unlike Dereham.
He was never arrested, just questioned and he corroborated Lascelle's claims, giving detailed information of his relationship with Catherine, confessing to sending a note to the dowager duchess about the men visiting the girls in the dorm and an argument he'd had with Dereham. He also gave them a list of witnesses, so he was helpful to them. He stated that his relationship with Catherine had only gone as far as intimate touching, foreplay, and that they had not had a full sexual relationship, although he'd wanted one. His version of events fitted other witnesses' versions, and he had no further relationship with her after she moved on to Dereham.
Claire Ridgeway,I find these vignettes you put on here absolutely riveting. Possibly because I am now in that " Golden age " as my doctor says, I am quite curious as to the history of our forefathers and this country England and what our predecessors got up to.Some were not so nice were they ! Anyway thank you for putting them on I shall read the lot I suspect!
Poor young girl was foolish in the extreme, knowing, as she must have, the history of Henry and his court, but really she was just a pawn in the power struggle within that court.
Personally I don't think she was abused or raped, but she was a young naive woman taken advantage of by older men and I can't blame Catherine for changing her confession. With her life on the line she had to try and can't be blamed for having no loyalty to the men who had put her in this position.
I am starting to read the book u have recommended Claire I never knew much about Catherine Howard only what the Tudor series made out she was like so I can't wait to read another perspective of her. Such a shame she was a young girl x
Claire, I thought Katherine shouted "I die a queen but would rather die the wife of Culpepper" before she was beheaded? I always thought she and Culpepper were a red hot item & Henry found out about it? It couldn't have been easy for a young beautiful girl to be married ton a fat old impotent king. All the guys fooled around. What's good for the goose and all that, right? Anyway great video. Thanks.
No, the one eye-witness account of her execution makes no mention of her saying that - see www.theanneboleynfiles.com/13-february-1542-catherine-howard-jane-boleyn-didnt-say/ However, after her mention of Culpeper in her confession, the investigations continued and her secret meets with Culpeper on the recent royal progress came to light.
@@anneboleynfiles it was apparently just a story not spoken in its entirety during the Tudor series. It's really sad and Catherine should not have Married King Henry just four wealth. Her heart was elsewhere.
@@montrelouisebohon-harris7023 Did she have a choice? I know Katharine Parr felt she had no choice. She wanted to marry Thomas Seymour and Henry had him set away form court and out of the country. So Henry knew.
I find it reaping what you sow...when 2 months after Anne Boylyn was murdered, Henry Fitzroy the illegimate son of Henry VIII, died at 17 years old....and HVIII is still suffering for the evil he did.
I don’t think Henry VIII’s children were being punished for his actions. Karma wouldn’t come for Henry FitzRoy because of his father. Same with Edward VI’s their premature deaths aren’t karma or ironic they’re tragic.
I honestly feel so bad for Cahterine Howard, of all the wives I think she had such a bad run of it and was so so young, esspecialy compared to Henry. As I understand it we're not entirely sure how old she was but I think in her late teens when she maried Henry? Reguardless, far too young to be maried to Henry. And all this business with these other men... Honestly I feel like she was abused at the very least in a statutory manner. I realise times were different and all that and it's easier for us to look back and judge but that honestly doesn't change my mind. This girl was used and abused by the men around her and it ultimately lead her to a very violent, cruel and far too early death.
Claire, if it's not too personal to ask, I was wondering what your tattoo says? I can see "Anne Boleyn" but not what's written before it. Just curious!
Why was Thomas Cranmer interrogating Catherine Howard? Did he hold some office (Lord Chancellor?) that made questioning suspects his purview? Or was it because Henry had faith in him and tasked him with a delicate bit of business?
He was a prominent member of the king's council and one of the king's trusted advisors. When several of them went to visit Catherine, it just didn't work, she wouldn't talk, so it was decided that Cranmer would go on his own and see if that would work.
daughter of patriots both - her music teacher was when she was 13, then it was someone that worked for her step-grandmother then after she married Henry it was one of his courtiers
The ones that came up at this point were prior to her marriage - a romance with her music teacher, Henry Manox, and a romance with Francis Dereham. Her relationship with Manox went as far as intimate touching, but she had a full sexual relationship with Dereham. After her mention of Culpeper, and Dereham also brought his name up, there were further investigations and her recent secret meetings with Culpeper, while she was on royal progress with the king, came to light.
🇭🇲🦘 (viewed 6/11/2020) .. Although Catherine was guilty as charged, she had been chased by Henry to marry him, even whilst he was married to .... Anne of Cleves. Talk about 'double standards'! Tudor men (whether Kings or not) could have a wife and mistresses, but women must be 'pure'. Catherine confessed, knowing what had happened to her cousin (Anne Boleyn) and sadly she would lose her head too. Catherine was terrified. I too would have been terrified. King Henry VIII had Anne Boleyn (who was totally Innocent of all charges) beheaded. Catherine Howard (who was Guilty) had therefore no hope of not being beheaded, and she was! So aweful that their husband (the King) wasn't merciful and didn't let them both live. These cousins, were the only two of Henry's wives to be beheaded. Awefully sad times in Tudor history. Well explained. "Thank you" Claire 💓👑👍
My heart goes out to Catherine. She had no help, no support. I feel no sympathy for Cranmer. Of course she was abused! Agnes Tilney should have been locked up in the tower.
Agnes Tilney, a sick and elderly woman was locked up in the Tower. What makes you say she was abused? None of the witness testimonies, including girls who shared a bed with her, mention anything. Catherine was important, she was a Howard and the Duchess's stepgranddaughter, somebody would have reported abuse to the duchess if it had happened. Abuse and rape was serious. Catherine's own words point to the relationships being romances - exchanges of gifts, midnight feasts, letting men into the dorm after her grandmother had gone to bed, calling each other husband and wife...
The Anne Boleyn Files and Society. I am entitled to my opinion as you are yours. I know abuse because I have lived it. I have stared it in the face, heard it’s abusive voice. I have had it on top of me pushing me down. If what I have said here is inappropriate Claire can certainly block me from her channel.
@@CherylGormanAuthor Me, too, Cheryl. I feel so hurt by the 'she should have known better' attitude. How should she have known better? Also, does anyone claim she wanted to marry the king? And whether or not she wanted to marry the king, she legally had no say in who she married. She was entirely controlled by men. Another thing: please don't assume someone would have told the Duchess about abuse. Abusers, seducers, older men seeking a young virginal conquest, they tell their victims not to tell anyone. They use threats, promises, gifts. Again, someone should have been there to protect her. And again, why did she have to die?
@@GildaLee27 I am so sorry it happened to you too. It is difficult I think for people who have never experienced any kind of abuse to relate to how it affects a person psychologically as well as emotionally. It can inform every part of a person's life until they get help. Catherine lived in a house with her step-grandmother who had young women under her care and allowed them to be exposed to men in the household. It was wrong on so many levels. Catherine was used and seduced by men nearly all of her life the last of which was Henry. There was no reason why that young woman should die.
Of course you're entitled to your opinion and I welcome it. What I was pointing out was that there is no evidence to back it up and Catherine was surrounded by other young men and women when she was with Dereham. Someone was in the very same bed and didn't mention any problem. I'm so sorry you suffered it. I was simply asking why you think Catherine suffered it.
For me, regardless of Dereham forcing himself on Catherine or not, he was a grown man and she was a young teenager so it was sexual abuse in any scenario, particularly in a time when men so soundly had power over women.
"Sweet sixteen" as the old ballad states was the age of "coming out" for young ladies in the past and is still the legal age for marriage in many countries. In Tudor times (and for 400 years after) people's lives were much shorter than now so there was an urgency among young women and men to settle down and start a family at an early age. Had this not been the practice disease, famine, plague, war etc would have reduced the possibility of many of us here and now being alive. (I realise it's a waste of time explaining this to our modern liberals/feminists who see everything through the lense of their tunnel vision.) Normal people already know this. It's not that long ago when a whole generation of potential fathers was wiped out in WWI/1914 -1918 AD. Over a much longer period childbirth caused the deaths of millions of women. We now live longer and healthier lives in the West especially - but that situation may not last forever.
@@anneboleynfiles Um, according to Wikipedia Dereham was around twice Catherine's age at the time. He was a grown man in his late twenties to early 30s, with a good job. She was a young teen at the 16th Century equivalent of boarding school.
@@dukadarodear2176 It's not true actually that people in average in Tudor England married in their teens. Aristocracy married younger than the rest of population but even in their case the average age was not early teens. According to D. M. Palliser: 'The aristocratic norm was for marriages in the late teens or early twenties, while commoners’ marriages took place later still. A family reconstitution sample of ten widely scattered parishes shows a mean age at first marriage for women of almost 25 years in the period 1550-99, rising to 26 in the following half-century.' (From The Age of Elizabeth: England under the later Tudors 1547-1603)
People spoke in here about perhaps Catherine had been sexually abused. So sad because she was in her step grandmother's household. I've got to wonder how it seemed she had no one who had a vested interest in her herself when she was young. She seemed left in a dorm of other young women to learn and grow in their own. 😓😓
She was given a wonderful opportunity. Her stepgrandmother was a prominent and well-respected woman. Catherine may have been easily led, but there's no evidence that she was abused, and other girls in the household chose not to be like Catherine and some of the others. Catherine and some of the others hosted some of the men of the household in the dorm for midnight feasts and more, other girls didn't get involved and Catherine's bedfellow got annoyed with her and Dereham. People did have an interest in her. Her behaviour was reported to the dowager duchess, who gave her a good telling off. Perhaps the dowager duchess didn't give enough supervision, but I'm not sure what else she could do at night when they stole they key to have fun.
@@anneboleynfiles thanks for letting me know. I imagined a bunch of girls in a dorm with a step grandmother who may have or may not have cared about her
And the Duchess was severely reprimanded for Catherine's behavior while under her care. She thought she might have been sent to the tower and even possibly beheaded.... thankfully she wasn't, but she was not allowed to go back yo court ever again and was basically shunned by upper society. I think she may also have been heavily fined?
So many stories claim that Catherine would have recognized her lovers' heads on London Bridge (Tower Bridge?)....wouldn't these heads (boiled and tarred and months old) have been unrecognizable ? Surely there were LOTS of heads on pikes in that area....
I have never seen any discussion regarding Henry’s criminal actions against each of his six wives. Yes, even Katherine Parr had an indictment drawn up against her (heresy?). She was lucky to escape these charges, by speaking with her husband, before the papers were served upon her. It does appear that he is the guilty party in more cases than not. And for each child born on this Earth, it’s the father who determines the sex of their baby. I have children of my own, so my thoughts are based on the wonderful experience of being a Mom. But, back to Henry... It is a very sad situation for all involved, these women didn’t deserve the unfortunate end that most received. Out of all this chaos, Elizabeth I was one of the greatest monarchs the UK ever had. She never married, and it makes one wonder how the British Monarchy would have been changed? We can only hope it would have been for the better! ❤️ ⭐️ 🎁 😻 ❤️ ❤️. 👑 👑 👑 ❤️ ❤️ 🌹 🎁 ⭐️ ❤️. ❤️ ⭐️ 👑 🌹 ❤️.
Didn't she say she was in an actual relationship with Francis Denham. Thomas Culpepper clearly took advantage of her. Catherine was clearly frightened. Poor girl.
Atmosphere always adds to content. Such a difference between men and lack of womens rights . However she grew up knowing the rules of the day, being young and a teenager ,short of chastity belts and constant bodyguards what were parents and women to do. Frustrating to say in the least.
So do you believe she was guilty of having an affair with Culpeper? I have seen people say she might have been innocent of that. Her past is a certainty of course. But Culpeper?
They both confessed to intending to sleep together and it certainly seems to have been a romance. I'm not sure they'd gone all the way, but they would have in time. Henry VIII had nearly died after one of his leg ulcers had closed up and Culpeper, who served him, was in a position to see just how ill the king was, so I think that they figured that the king wasn't long for this world and that they'd soon be able to marry. So, no to technical adultery, but, yes really, as they were in love.
@@anneboleynfiles Thanks for the response! That makes sense. I was so confused bc I always heard her discussed as completely guilty. It seems it's more complicated than that.
Not really sure but I'm definitely sure she was in love with him before she married the king and Culpeper ask her not to marry the king and to be with him. They were cousins to some degree but back then everybody had incestuous marriages anyway. I find it hard to believe that Catherine was completely faithful to Henry if she were still in love with Thomas. I don't think she was telling the entire truth but that's just my belief. What I do believe is that Catherine did not mean the king any harm.
What a sordid business - she accuses Dereham of rape:Culpepper accuses her of forcing him to continue with the relationship. She had no sharp eyed mother to, keep her on the straight and narrow when she was growing up. The fate of the other girls in the dormitory would in the end, be a marriage and children, past sins left behind them and.forgotten. But Katherine caught the eye of a king and hadn't the strength of character to change her ways and live up to her role of queen.
You can watch ruclips.net/video/fKuEcLSNAEo/видео.html, where I explain it, but it's an exact copy of Anne Boleyn's inscription from her book of hours. It says "Le temps viendra, je Anne Boleyn" with a drawing of an astrolable between the Je and her signature. It's an exact copy of her handwriting, even down to the bit where her quill caught!
I think she would have been saved if she had admitted to her relationship with Dereham constituting a marriage. If she'd done that, her marriage with Henry could have easily been annulled.
MY God,King Henry was a nasty piece of work who just murdered people with no sense of remorse or sorrow.I am a guitar player so his tiny , almost but not quite , redeeming quality was ,he was a lute player.Did he compose Greensleeves or is that just a rumour?
Some say she didn't but Culpeper was after her. HE got what he deserved. She was really executed because she was not a virgin when Henry married her and too many people knew this. It was an embarrassment to him.
On this day in Tudor history ... something *BAD* happened. 💜
Searia Kett It usually did.
@@januarysson5633
I find it ironic and humourous because it says it on Claire's merch. lol
Yep!
every day...
william hogan eh Henry’s death was good...
Elizabeth 1 reign was great
and Thomas Seymour being beheaded was AMAZING
I don't believe Henry ever intended to keep his word about mercy.
I think there was a chance when he believed she had not been a virgin before they married. Obviously he would not forgive her, but he might not execute her. When he found out she had been seeing a man while married to him, he fate was sealed. She had cuckolded him and she was doomed.
@@SteveGad Agree, no mercy on the table or anywhere else where Henry and his ego were concerned.
He definitely wasn't a virgin when he married Katherine. He was a syphilis infested sloth.
@@indiciaobscure I’ve always thought similarly. Undisclosed impurity before marriage? Divorce, disgrace, end of story. Achieve adultery whilst wed? As a woman that was a death sentence. I believe mercy may have been possible, depending on the charges that ended up being brought against her. Compared to what happened to Anne, Henry certainly seemed reluctant and made up a decidedly more proper trial. It seemed as if he would’ve been willing to show clemency, but as you said, he couldn’t brook being a cuckhold.
Was there a chance, had she not confessed, even though it was true, she might have been spared?
Out of all Henrys wives, I feel for this poor girl! I feel for Anne Boleyn too, but Catherine was so young. She had her whole life ahead of her. And, I think she was in way over her head! Everyone wanted something from her. It's just sad.
One thing I wonder about is the amount of time events took to transpire for Katherine, in comparison to how fast Anne Boleyn's fall took? Anne was arrested, condemned and executed within a few short weeks, but in Katherine's case the arrest takes place in early November but her execution didn't happen until February the following year? Was Henry in some mind to pardon Katherine even after knowing her guilt? What are your thoughts on this Claire?
Yes, it always strikes me. This was a proper and thorough investigation and Catherine and one of her ladies were executed, and lots of others were imprisoned, plus the men were executed too. It was very different. I do think that that, plus Henry VIII's shocked reaction and grief, point to this being real and 1536 being a complete farce.
@@anneboleynfiles thank you for your reply. I agree. The contrast between the two events speaks volumes.
@@anneboleynfiles Maybe Henry learned how to get his ducks in a row
I think it also had to do with Henry already having met Anne´s substitute (Jane) and wanting to marry her. When He executed Katherine, he hadn´t any other young lady waiting to be marry.
My theory is that Jane Seymour was already pregnant, hence the added need for urgency. She had a miscarriage before her successful pregnancy with Edward I believe
I can't even begin to imagine being in poor Catherine's skin at that time. I would have tried anything to get off the hook. She was so young and naive, and she may have been able to survive it had she stuck to her story. I feel as if Henry may have believed her if she had only kept it together and said that they were lying on her, but after having blurted everything out she could hang it up and forget about it! What was done was done. In Henry's court the best thing one could do was not tell any secrets to anyone because even a bff could turn on you for money, positions, titles, or just pure jealousy! There were no friends at court I would imagine, and Henry most definitely was not loyal to anyone. He could turn at a moment's notice! But she was a child, although at the time she wasn't thought of as one. She should have been sent to a nunnery or some alternative if for nothing more than her being so young. She truly had no way out!
I think so too. I think if she had stuck to her story he would have believed her.The message from Henry saying that he would show mercy if she confessed was just a test. Unfortunately, in her innocence she believed him.
AmazinGraceXOXO1 but she wasn’t innocent. She had numerous affairs with other men and these were corroborated by other girls in her household. By today’s standards she would be considered a harlot. Unfortunately for her, she was married to the kind of England and really ought to have known better.
I know! I think it was pure panic and it's so very understandable.
@@clairemangan3235 By today's standards, she was a normal, sexually active teenager who was sexually initiated by much older, experienced men in a home where this was tolerated and enabled by people who were supposed to have this girl's best interests at heart. Ought to have known better? How exactly was she to have known what no one taught her? Well, I guess she learned, didn't she, when they beheaded her.
Sorry for the bitter tone, but she was just a girl who got used. Who was there to speak up for her, to get her banished into exile, placed in a nunnery or whatever? Why did she have to die?
@@clairemangan3235 :'Harlot' is a bit strong, isn't it? She was young and daft and neglected. It`s hardly surprising she went astray.
She may not have known enough to realise how dangerous her situation was but Culpepper knew.
As someone who works with sexual assault survivors, I think all of her behavior is consistent with what you’d expect from a young sexual abuse survivor. Including the exchange of gifts, and feeling strong bonds to Derhem. That’s how grooming works.
It wouldn’t surprise me if she tied her sense of self worth with her ability to please men.
Including the rage, and revising her story under duress.
Six did an amazing job of capturing the complexity of Katherine’s sexual abuse and grooming with a jazzy pop number...
ruclips.net/video/iodNoJHrei4/видео.html
Oh my God, take a hint she was not abused
I wonder what would have happened had she stuck to her story before she changed it by throwing Dereham to the wolves. Poor thing - she was grasping for straws at that point out of terror. I can only imagine how terrified she must have been.
I think she might just have been set aside instead as Cranmer could easily have annulled the marriage had she also agreed to it constituting a pre-contract.
@@anneboleynfiles One author I read-- Alison Weir, maybe?-- said that Cranmer was trying to give Catherine an "out" by trying to get her to agree to pre-contract with Dereham, but Catherine wasn't clever enough to see that a life preserver was being thrown to her.
Poor Catherine...she was a pawn of her Uncle to gain favor with the King. How frightened she must have been. Thank you Claire for sharing hopefully tomorrow will be better!
What makes you say that she was a pawn of her uncle?
She was appointed to serve Anne of Cleves and caught the king's eye at court then. There is no evidence of her uncle pushing her at the king, and I expect the Howard panicked when they did find out about her and the king.
The Anne Boleyn Files and Tudor Society I’m probably bad because I based this opinion from watching the 6 Wives of Henry VIII here in the US when it hit Masterpiece Theater in the early 70’s. I was about 12 or 13 & didn’t really know about Henry & his wives.! I remember thinking it was like a tug of war between the Catholics & the reformers for power! Which wife could they get in there!!! It made a huge impression & I never forgot how I felt! Maybe Norfolk thought it was good luck to have his niece as Queen..,but then when she fell..not so much :/
Great video, Claire. I often wonder what would have happened if step Grammy had been a little more mindful of what was going on with the girls
Henry VIII: King of Tragedies.
My thoughts exactly! 🥺
I concur
Catherine has such a tragic story right from the start.
Catherine has always intrigued me. They say the ghost of Catherine runs screaming for Henry in Hampton Court to this day. I can only imagine what the poor young woman was going through. And still is, if the reports of ghost sightings are anything to go by.
Yes, however you look at it, hers is a sad story.
My heart truly bleeds for her.
I like to get my head out of our current time period & try to put it in theirs, but I truly cannot imagine my bedfellow bringing in a man & having a good time.
Yes, Mary Lascelles had a legitimate grievance about this. Yet for some reason she didn't rat Catherine out at the time. It took her brother John Lascelles to bring out the allegations years later. Of her own accord, Mary would have held her tongue though having no great liking for Catherine. It's worth noting that Catherine's uncle Thomas Howard was a religious/political opponent of John Lascelles. Just sayin'.
April I agree! ew!
Henry threw her a crumb of hope and she took it, only to lose her life anyway. Her last days must have been hideous and she was only a teen. That's more than a mature, more worldly knowledgeable woman would have been able to bear. Too, too sad.
Very very sad.
To be fair to Henry, he offered a DEAL: She has to tell the truth. She couild not seem to manage that... although I am not sure it really would have changed her fate.
It's funny how you are on alert for high winds in Spain and here on the other side of the world in Victoria, Australia at the moment we are also dealing with gale force winds.
Same here for me in Victoria Australia!
Wow, that's interesting! It hasn't been too bad here, just a bit blustery. Hope you're ok.
I watched this for a second time, because I'm so very much intrigued by Catherine Howard's story. She in many ways like Anne Boleyn had seemed to be erased from portraiture and forgotten by King Henry as to probably save himself from the heartache that I imagine he must have suffered because he seemed to live her very much. He didn't even at first want to believe the allegations. This speaks volumes about how he felt for her. He didn't care about anyone else that he had executed in that way. She was so young and probably very beautiful, and I say this because we truly don't know which portrait is really her true likeness, but he could have just forgiven her and probably had many babies with her, if he was still physically capable of doing the deed! I hate that she had to be murdered because she was so naive and so young, and probably knew very little about how things worked with King Henry, except that if you cross him your head doesn't stay on for long!! Oh, n not to be goofy or funny, but could you imagine how her bedfellow must have looked when she was "making cheer"! I pictured in my mind a young teen with eyes as wide as saucers, lying there with the covers pulled all the way up to her eyes! Thinking, " OMG, what is going on in this world right now!" It would have been funny to see the look on her poor young face in this world and crazy situation!! I hope she at least got some wine and strawberries to calm her down after dealing with those crazies! Lol!!
So happy you like to talk Tudor. Always interesting to listen in.
Claire, I love your delivery, the way you always have so much compassion for the poor souls that had to undergo these kinds of horrendous trials.
Hot stuff. With the gentleman's hose coming down and all. Thanks.
Ha! Yes!
Catherine describing the fifty shades of Dereham to the royal council.
@@kiera6326 I smell a fanfic in the making lol
Awesome as always- thanks !!
I think she is the most unfortunate of Henry’s wives. She was very young and in a hopeless position. I don’t think Henry ever intended to be merciful; his wounded pride would not allow it.
Thamnkyou Claire for your hard work!. I look forward to reading your new book🎉- but have to wait for paperback.
Poor young girl.
Thank you!
When I next visit London I plan to visit St. Peter ad Vincula and lay flowers for her and for Anne Boleyn and the others. The "saddest place on earth". Thank you for this! Love from NY
I hope you’re safe Claire! It’s windy here in the state of Victoria in Australia too.
I do feel for Catherine Howard. She was so young and perhaps naïve. She shouldn’t have been unfaithful. My question is, did Henry VIII have her killed because she was unfaithful during their marriage, or was it that she didn’t disclose her past liaisons and wasn’t a virgin? I’m a bit tired at the moment, so I’ve probably missed that explanation.
Thanks as always Claire for these great daily videos! Even on the bad days I love learning about Tudor history!
It's not bad at all, just blustery and it sounds worse than it is. I hope you're ok there.
I think Henry may well have been inclined to just set her aside if she had agreed that her relationship with Dereham constituted marriage and so her marriage to Henry was bigamous. That is what Cranmer was trying to get from her, but she stubbornly denied it. In those times, for a marriage to be valid in the eyes of the church, a couple just needed to make promises to each other and then consummate their relationship. Catherine and Dereham called each other husband and wife, and they'd slept together, that could well have been a marriage. If only she had agreed to that! Of course, the subsequent investigations brought forth the Culpeper affair too.
The Anne Boleyn Files and Tudor Society
Thank you. We’re ok here and lucky we’re not getting any damaging winds. Just blustery which is annoying but ok.
I had temporarily forgotten that with marriages in Tudor times that all’s they needed to do to be married was to promise to each other that they were husband and wife.
Indeed she may have been simply put aside if she’d just admitted she’d been married to Dereham.
However once it was known about Culpepper, Henry VIII would have punished her more harshly anyway than just simply setting her aside
Thank you Claire! Best part of my day thanks to your daily history lesson.
Claire, I know Henry Mannox was released but is there any documentation as to what he actually confessed about knowing Catherine?. I always assumed he was not tried because he had no contact with Catherine after she became Queen unlike Dereham.
He was never arrested, just questioned and he corroborated Lascelle's claims, giving detailed information of his relationship with Catherine, confessing to sending a note to the dowager duchess about the men visiting the girls in the dorm and an argument he'd had with Dereham. He also gave them a list of witnesses, so he was helpful to them. He stated that his relationship with Catherine had only gone as far as intimate touching, foreplay, and that they had not had a full sexual relationship, although he'd wanted one. His version of events fitted other witnesses' versions, and he had no further relationship with her after she moved on to Dereham.
Wonderful video ❤
Thanks Claire, Oh poor teen.
At least her accusations were in private versus the hugely public, unexpected 'trials' that poor Anne and George had go through....
5:39 So, the original "Eat great, even late!"
Nowadays, he'd bring her McDonald's, Burger King and Wendy's food.
Omg i love your vídeos, i'm in love with the six wives
Claire Ridgeway,I find these vignettes you put on here absolutely riveting. Possibly because I am now in that " Golden age " as my doctor says, I am quite curious as to the history of our forefathers and this country England and what our predecessors got up to.Some were not so nice were they ! Anyway thank you for putting them on I shall read the lot I suspect!
Thank you Claire As always full of incredible considered detail
Poor young girl was foolish in the extreme, knowing, as she must have, the history of Henry and his court, but really she was just a
pawn in the power struggle within that court.
Well done
I was not disappointed in Young&Damned& Fair...I enjoyed reading it
Personally I don't think she was abused or raped, but she was a young naive woman taken advantage of by older men and I can't blame Catherine for changing her confession. With her life on the line she had to try and can't be blamed for having no loyalty to the men who had put her in this position.
I am starting to read the book u have recommended Claire I never knew much about Catherine Howard only what the Tudor series made out she was like so I can't wait to read another perspective of her. Such a shame she was a young girl x
It really is an excellent book.
@@anneboleynfiles thank u for the recommendation Claire x
Thank you.
Claire, I thought Katherine shouted "I die a queen but would rather die the wife of Culpepper" before she was beheaded? I always thought she and Culpepper were a red hot item & Henry found out about it? It couldn't have been easy for a young beautiful girl to be married ton a fat old impotent king. All the guys fooled around. What's good for the goose and all that, right? Anyway great video. Thanks.
No, the one eye-witness account of her execution makes no mention of her saying that - see www.theanneboleynfiles.com/13-february-1542-catherine-howard-jane-boleyn-didnt-say/
However, after her mention of Culpeper in her confession, the investigations continued and her secret meets with Culpeper on the recent royal progress came to light.
@@anneboleynfiles it was apparently just a story not spoken in its entirety during the Tudor series. It's really sad and Catherine should not have Married King Henry just four wealth. Her heart was elsewhere.
@@montrelouisebohon-harris7023 Did she have a choice? I know Katharine Parr felt she had no choice. She wanted to marry Thomas Seymour and Henry had him set away form court and out of the country. So Henry knew.
He was a man of his times, king Henry.. still he was a mean sob!
I find it reaping what you sow...when 2 months after Anne Boylyn was murdered, Henry Fitzroy the illegimate son of Henry VIII, died at 17 years old....and HVIII is still suffering for the evil he did.
I don’t think Henry VIII’s children were being punished for his actions. Karma wouldn’t come for Henry FitzRoy because of his father. Same with Edward VI’s their premature deaths aren’t karma or ironic they’re tragic.
Well discribed, many thanks.
She should have council to advocate for her.
They didn't do that in those days.
Last shot there's a kitty! Poor Oreo.
Henry VIII , the most famous king in history, he was such a baddie, but will never be forgotten.
Omg Claire I never saw your upper arm tattoo until now.! Do you mind if I ask what it says?
Claire, What do you think about the representation of Katherine Howard in The Tudors' series?
I honestly feel so bad for Cahterine Howard, of all the wives I think she had such a bad run of it and was so so young, esspecialy compared to Henry. As I understand it we're not entirely sure how old she was but I think in her late teens when she maried Henry? Reguardless, far too young to be maried to Henry. And all this business with these other men... Honestly I feel like she was abused at the very least in a statutory manner. I realise times were different and all that and it's easier for us to look back and judge but that honestly doesn't change my mind. This girl was used and abused by the men around her and it ultimately lead her to a very violent, cruel and far too early death.
Like the sign Tudor’s rule. Poor Catherine one step closer to her fall.
She had no representation against all those King’s men
No, it wasn't done like that in those days, I'm afraid.
Women at court have always had the thin end of the wedge... including the young lady's Mary and Elizabeth to the modern royals.
Oreo is CUTE!
He is!
Henry VIII was a very sick man who expected a child to be honest about her life before she met the king.
I really feel sorry for her. As at a tender age of 18. Knowing what her fate would be and she also knew the fate of her cousin Anne Boleyn.
She probably had done nothing,poor woman.
I just peeped your tattoo Mrs. Ridgeway. You have officially made history cooler. I love your vids, thank you!
Claire, if it's not too personal to ask, I was wondering what your tattoo says? I can see "Anne Boleyn" but not what's written before it. Just curious!
Kristen Cunningham she did a video on it
ruclips.net/video/fKuEcLSNAEo/видео.html
invisigoth510 Thank you!
Why was Thomas Cranmer interrogating Catherine Howard? Did he hold some office (Lord Chancellor?) that made questioning suspects his purview? Or was it because Henry had faith in him and tasked him with a delicate bit of business?
He was a prominent member of the king's council and one of the king's trusted advisors. When several of them went to visit Catherine, it just didn't work, she wouldn't talk, so it was decided that Cranmer would go on his own and see if that would work.
@@anneboleynfiles Thank you!
It just occurred to me that the two wives that *Henry VIII* had beheaded were not only both *Howard* women but they were _cousins._ 👸 🤴 👸
Are all these extra curricular activities during her marriage to Henry or prior? Thank you!
daughter of patriots both - her music teacher was when she was 13, then it was someone that worked for her step-grandmother then after she married Henry it was one of his courtiers
The ones that came up at this point were prior to her marriage - a romance with her music teacher, Henry Manox, and a romance with Francis Dereham. Her relationship with Manox went as far as intimate touching, but she had a full sexual relationship with Dereham.
After her mention of Culpeper, and Dereham also brought his name up, there were further investigations and her recent secret meetings with Culpeper, while she was on royal progress with the king, came to light.
🇭🇲🦘 (viewed 6/11/2020) .. Although Catherine was guilty as charged, she had been chased by Henry to marry him, even whilst he was married to
.... Anne of Cleves. Talk about 'double standards'! Tudor men (whether Kings or not) could have a wife and mistresses, but women must be 'pure'. Catherine confessed, knowing what had happened to her cousin (Anne Boleyn) and sadly she would lose her head too. Catherine was terrified. I too would have been terrified.
King Henry VIII had Anne Boleyn (who was totally Innocent of all charges) beheaded. Catherine Howard (who was Guilty) had therefore no hope of not being beheaded, and she was! So aweful that their husband (the King) wasn't merciful and didn't let them both live. These cousins, were the only two of Henry's wives to be beheaded. Awefully sad times in Tudor history.
Well explained. "Thank you" Claire 💓👑👍
My heart goes out to Catherine. She had no help, no support. I feel no sympathy for Cranmer. Of course she was abused! Agnes Tilney should have been locked up in the tower.
Agnes Tilney, a sick and elderly woman was locked up in the Tower.
What makes you say she was abused? None of the witness testimonies, including girls who shared a bed with her, mention anything. Catherine was important, she was a Howard and the Duchess's stepgranddaughter, somebody would have reported abuse to the duchess if it had happened. Abuse and rape was serious. Catherine's own words point to the relationships being romances - exchanges of gifts, midnight feasts, letting men into the dorm after her grandmother had gone to bed, calling each other husband and wife...
The Anne Boleyn Files and Society. I am entitled to my opinion as you are yours. I know abuse because I have lived it. I have stared it in the face, heard it’s abusive voice. I have had it on top of me pushing me down. If what I have said here is inappropriate Claire can certainly block me from her channel.
@@CherylGormanAuthor Me, too, Cheryl. I feel so hurt by the 'she should have known better' attitude. How should she have known better? Also, does anyone claim she wanted to marry the king? And whether or not she wanted to marry the king, she legally had no say in who she married. She was entirely controlled by men. Another thing: please don't assume someone would have told the Duchess about abuse. Abusers, seducers, older men seeking a young virginal conquest, they tell their victims not to tell anyone. They use threats, promises, gifts. Again, someone should have been there to protect her. And again, why did she have to die?
@@GildaLee27 I am so sorry it happened to you too. It is difficult I think for people who have never experienced any kind of abuse to relate to how it affects a person psychologically as well as emotionally. It can inform every part of a person's life until they get help. Catherine lived in a house with her step-grandmother who had young women under her care and allowed them to be exposed to men in the household. It was wrong on so many levels. Catherine was used and seduced by men nearly all of her life the last of which was Henry. There was no reason why that young woman should die.
Of course you're entitled to your opinion and I welcome it. What I was pointing out was that there is no evidence to back it up and Catherine was surrounded by other young men and women when she was with Dereham. Someone was in the very same bed and didn't mention any problem.
I'm so sorry you suffered it. I was simply asking why you think Catherine suffered it.
For me, regardless of Dereham forcing himself on Catherine or not, he was a grown man and she was a young teenager so it was sexual abuse in any scenario, particularly in a time when men so soundly had power over women.
There probably wasn't that much of a difference in age, they were both young.
Young people have sex, especially when they have 24/7 access to each other. It's been that way forever.
"Sweet sixteen" as the old ballad states was the age of "coming out" for young ladies in the past and is still the legal age for marriage in many countries.
In Tudor times (and for 400 years after) people's lives were much shorter than now so there was an urgency among young women and men to settle down and start a family at an early age.
Had this not been the practice disease, famine, plague, war etc would have reduced the possibility of many of us here and now being alive.
(I realise it's a waste of time explaining this to our modern liberals/feminists who see everything through the lense of their tunnel vision.)
Normal people already know this.
It's not that long ago when a whole generation of potential fathers was wiped out in WWI/1914 -1918 AD.
Over a much longer period childbirth caused the deaths of millions of women.
We now live longer and healthier lives in the West especially - but that situation may not last forever.
@@anneboleynfiles Um, according to Wikipedia Dereham was around twice Catherine's age at the time. He was a grown man in his late twenties to early 30s, with a good job. She was a young teen at the 16th Century equivalent of boarding school.
@@dukadarodear2176 It's not true actually that people in average in Tudor England married in their teens. Aristocracy married younger than the rest of population but even in their case the average age was not early teens. According to D. M. Palliser: 'The aristocratic norm was for marriages in the late teens or early twenties, while commoners’ marriages took place later still. A family reconstitution sample of ten widely scattered parishes shows a mean age at first marriage for women of almost 25 years in the period 1550-99, rising to 26 in the following half-century.' (From The Age of Elizabeth: England under the later Tudors 1547-1603)
People spoke in here about perhaps Catherine had been sexually abused. So sad because she was in her step grandmother's household. I've got to wonder how it seemed she had no one who had a vested interest in her herself when she was young. She seemed left in a dorm of other young women to learn and grow in their own. 😓😓
She was given a wonderful opportunity. Her stepgrandmother was a prominent and well-respected woman. Catherine may have been easily led, but there's no evidence that she was abused, and other girls in the household chose not to be like Catherine and some of the others. Catherine and some of the others hosted some of the men of the household in the dorm for midnight feasts and more, other girls didn't get involved and Catherine's bedfellow got annoyed with her and Dereham.
People did have an interest in her. Her behaviour was reported to the dowager duchess, who gave her a good telling off. Perhaps the dowager duchess didn't give enough supervision, but I'm not sure what else she could do at night when they stole they key to have fun.
@@anneboleynfiles thanks for letting me know. I imagined a bunch of girls in a dorm with a step grandmother who may have or may not have cared about her
And the Duchess was severely reprimanded for Catherine's behavior while under her care. She thought she might have been sent to the tower and even possibly beheaded.... thankfully she wasn't, but she was not allowed to go back yo court ever again and was basically shunned by upper society. I think she may also have been heavily fined?
So many stories claim that Catherine would have recognized her lovers' heads on London Bridge (Tower Bridge?)....wouldn't these heads (boiled and tarred and months old) have been unrecognizable ? Surely there were LOTS of heads on pikes in that area....
I have never seen any discussion regarding Henry’s criminal actions against each of his six wives. Yes, even Katherine Parr had an indictment drawn up against her (heresy?). She was lucky to escape these charges, by speaking with her husband, before the papers were served upon her. It does appear that he is the guilty party in more cases than not. And for each child born on this Earth, it’s the father who determines the sex of their baby. I have children of my own, so my thoughts are based on the wonderful experience of being a Mom. But, back to Henry... It is a very sad situation for all involved, these women didn’t deserve the unfortunate end that most received. Out of all this chaos, Elizabeth I was one of the greatest monarchs the UK ever had. She never married, and it makes one wonder how the British Monarchy would have been changed? We can only hope it would have been for the better!
❤️ ⭐️ 🎁 😻 ❤️ ❤️. 👑 👑 👑 ❤️ ❤️ 🌹 🎁 ⭐️ ❤️. ❤️ ⭐️ 👑 🌹 ❤️.
Didn't she say she was in an actual relationship with Francis Denham. Thomas Culpepper clearly took advantage of her. Catherine was clearly frightened. Poor girl.
Atmosphere always adds to content. Such a difference between men and lack of womens rights . However she grew up knowing the rules of the day, being young and a teenager ,short of chastity belts and constant bodyguards what were parents and women to do. Frustrating to say in the least.
It is so sad that her relationships before the king were used against her.
@@anneboleynfiles I don't think Catherine did know the rules. There was no support for her.
The step grandmother was lax. She did not try to keep an eye on those girls.
So do you believe she was guilty of having an affair with Culpeper? I have seen people say she might have been innocent of that. Her past is a certainty of course. But Culpeper?
Aren't they cousins from what I remember?
They both confessed to intending to sleep together and it certainly seems to have been a romance. I'm not sure they'd gone all the way, but they would have in time. Henry VIII had nearly died after one of his leg ulcers had closed up and Culpeper, who served him, was in a position to see just how ill the king was, so I think that they figured that the king wasn't long for this world and that they'd soon be able to marry.
So, no to technical adultery, but, yes really, as they were in love.
They were related as Catherine's mother was a Culpeper.
@@anneboleynfiles Thanks for the response! That makes sense. I was so confused bc I always heard her discussed as completely guilty. It seems it's more complicated than that.
Not really sure but I'm definitely sure she was in love with him before she married the king and Culpeper ask her not to marry the king and to be with him. They were cousins to some degree but back then everybody had incestuous marriages anyway. I find it hard to believe that Catherine was completely faithful to Henry if she were still in love with Thomas. I don't think she was telling the entire truth but that's just my belief. What I do believe is that Catherine did not mean the king any harm.
How horrible for her. She would've been out of her mind with fear and panic. No wonder her ghost still runs down the hallway. Poor thing.
What a sordid business - she accuses Dereham of rape:Culpepper accuses her of forcing him to continue with the relationship.
She had no sharp eyed mother to, keep her on the straight and narrow when she was growing up. The fate of the other girls in the dormitory would in the end, be a marriage and children, past sins left behind them and.forgotten. But Katherine caught the eye of a king and hadn't the strength of character to change her ways and live up to her role of queen.
If only she hadn't caught the king's eye. If only she hadn't reignited her relationship with Culpeper. It is a sad story.
@@anneboleynfiles how serious was the relationship with Culpepper before she met the king, Claire? Was there really talk of marriage, do you know?
I spy a tattoo! Does it say "On this day in Tudor history"? 🤪🤪😁😁
I think it says "Something, something, Anne Boleyn" in italicized style.
@@renshiwu305 Maybe Claire will let us know. Thanks for the reply!
Elizabeth F. She does describe it in one video. It comes from a letter from Anne Boleyn I believe.
@@januarysson5633 Thanks! Must have missed that one.
You can watch ruclips.net/video/fKuEcLSNAEo/видео.html, where I explain it, but it's an exact copy of Anne Boleyn's inscription from her book of hours. It says "Le temps viendra, je Anne Boleyn" with a drawing of an astrolable between the Je and her signature. It's an exact copy of her handwriting, even down to the bit where her quill caught!
Did Henry VII think that he can buy anyone even their souls?
This is where Catharine’s shortcomings as a liar did her in.
💖👑👑💖xx
King or no king... Why would she marry he guy who had killed her cousins?!
Because Henry wanted her. I doubt SHE had any choice.
If the affair with Culpepper hadn't ever taken place - is it likely she would have been executed anyways?
I think she would have been saved if she had admitted to her relationship with Dereham constituting a marriage. If she'd done that, her marriage with Henry could have easily been annulled.
Yes the old Duchess of Norfolk said it best Katherine could not be condemed for events before her marriage to the king
That was gloomy.
What happened to Derham?
He was hanged, drawn, and quartered. The typical traitors end. The king showed Culpepper mercy by allowing him to beheaded only.
MY God,King Henry was a nasty piece of work who just murdered people with no sense of remorse or sorrow.I am a guitar player so his tiny , almost but not quite , redeeming quality was ,he was a lute player.Did he compose Greensleeves or is that just a rumour?
Life is funny Henry framed Anne for cheating on him and down the line Catherine actually cheated .
Some say she didn't but Culpeper was after her. HE got what he deserved. She was really executed because she was not a virgin when Henry married her and too many people knew this. It was an embarrassment to him.
Cranmer or Cramner?
Cramner
It's Cranmer.
Cranmer! But when I typed it in the autocorrect tried to change it Crammer! Lol! But no for sure it's Cranmer!
Cranmer
Cranmer but so hard to say and it sounds like Cramner however hard I try.
I think Archbishop Cranmer was the Tudor version of a snitch!!!
Are you chewing gum?
What a weird question, of all the other things you could ask
@@careyannewesternpa5512 What? It looked like she was chewing gum and it was distracting. Why do care?
@@make-upmaven565 i dont care. It was rude. Thats all.