I spent $12,650 on an HVAC for my Rental (8 Lessons Learned)
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- Опубликовано: 3 авг 2024
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🎙️ Episode 347 - From selecting the right equipment to prioritizing preventive care, Matt offers 8 lessons to ensure optimal efficiency and longevity for your property investments. Plus, learn the best practices for system maintenance to help any landlord build bulletproof rental properties in 2024.
📄 Show Notes:
www.coachcarson.com/lowmainte...
▶️ Next Video: This is my Ideal Rental Property (size, materials used, buy box)
• This is my Ideal Renta...
🎬 Topics Covered:
0:00 - 1. Choosing wisely on HVACs
1:48 - 2. Understand HVAC Pricing
6:33 - 3. Choose the right brand for your system
17:33 - 4. Prepare for big repairs
20:04 - 5. Split system vs Forced Air system
30:21 - 6. The maintenance of your system
34:55 - 7. Best practices for maintenance
36:36 - 8. Matt's advice for heating/air units
39:02 - Connect with Matt
40:12 - Ideal criteria for rental properties
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• Matt's Instagram: / lumberjack_landlord
• Matt's RUclips: / @lumberjacklandlord
• Matt's Course: www.lumberjacklandlord.com
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Footage & Photos credit to: Pexels.com & Pixabay.com
If you liked this one, I recommend this next video about my buy box (aka my favorite types of properties and materials):
ruclips.net/video/r5C_Lvw5aWw/видео.html
The crazy part is if you just go with the average cost around 7k and you factor in a cash flow of $300 per month, you’re pretty much in the hole for 2 years just off of that expense. But it’s really longer because we already know within 2 years a bunch of other stuff will come up as well.
Cest la vie
I did have to replace the AC /furnace in one of my units and I got several quotes 12k, 17k with big companies like Home Depot, Lowe’s… but I kept looking with local small vendors and I got a new one for $4,800 installed…. I don’t want to install a high end AC for a rental unit…it’s been 8 months with cold and hot days and the unit works perfectly… this is including internal , external and installation … so my recommendation is to keep looking for vendors in your area
Shopping can pay off for sure. Thanks for the comment.
I did the same. Got quotes from local installers then discovered a guy who lived near me that was an installer who did work on the side. Ordered parts online and him install for half the cost. Working great.
Always be shopping! Great comment
The condensing furnaces such as 95+ efficiency units are much more complex and expensive, and often have higher maintenance cost.
anyone spending $7000.00 for labor on an AC system replacement needs to find another AC technician, that is OUTRAGEOUS!
We had a new furnace installed in 2020 for $2200, at that point we couldn't afford the new central air unit that would have cost an additional 1500. In 2023 we looked into it again and through the same company it was quoted at 4000. It was a easy pass. I can't believe how much prices went up.
I ended up having to replace a swamp cooler on a rental cooler cost about $12-$1400. I had a hard time finding somebody to install it finally found a guy that was willing to do it. He wanted $2800 and half upfront I agreed to the price which was outrageous until he asked for half upfront then I knew I wasn’t gonna do it. I ended up finding a guy With a helper, he did it in one day and it cost $1800. I paid him. He was happy I was grateful it was done.
Teaching your children, the trades will pay off in spades
I did all my ac work based off RUclips and bought my own unit online. Only thing I paid was like $350 for a tech that was an authorized dealer to connect thermostat, braze, vacuum, and charge for warranty purposes. It has been working great for almost 2 years now
Run tstat wire, Braze, vacuum and charge. What u do?? just sit the condenser on the pad.
🤣😂🤣😂
@@rickychavez1473 I ran the stat wire. I placed the air handler and condenser. I had to upgrade the electrical to 6ga from the attic to panel in the basement. I will say he told me I needed to do that to install the heat kit. So yes I did all the physical hard labor. Tech was maybe there for hour and half.
Appreciate this collaboration a ton!
Lumberjack Landlord looks at the details on another level!
His Sunday livestreams provide so much value along with your content Coach!
Amazing content! Love, love these maintenance tips. I replaced both HVAC in both units of my duplex in the last 2 years. $10,000.00 for both. Maintenance and good installation are the keys.
Thank you, Matt and Coach Carson, for sharing your knowledge.
I love these detailed videos! Please do more
This was UNBELIEVABLY helpful, you two! More, more, more just like this please!
Split units are actually pretty high maintenance. The wall unit fan (blower), evaporator fins, and condenser fins need to be cleaned annually. The filters don't do much.
Regular units need to be serviced every year too.
If you're having to wash the indoor units that often, you have pets or the occupants are filthy animals.
I've seen some dumbass builder put them in a commercial kitchen. It's fked within the year with the grease clogging em up and shit growing on the blower wheels
Amazing value in this episode
I’ve never heard of any renters considering their utility bills when deciding to move after they’re already in the unit
This video is perfectly timed! I'll soon be getting new ac and furnace for my primary residence which will eventually become a rental property.
Glad to hear it! Thanks for the feedback!
Cool nitty gritty land lording video! More of this!
Very helpful Thank you for sharing
I work for York! Thanks for the shout out!
Great conversation. I bought slab on grade 1954 house. Changed and improved envelope with zip system with insulation. I'm retrofitting radiant flooring as main heat source during very cold season and 3 head mini split to support it and transition between seasons. In summer I use minisplit just to remove humidity. That combination is best imo for slab on grade
I put a heat pump with splits in my 3500 sqft house, worked great, can heat and cool, uses less energy.
Agree, and you don’t have to use old fuels! Much more efficient and modern
Coach and Lumberjack are my favorite duo! You two and ThatADUGuy are the ultimate trio!
thank you!! means a lot🙏
Love the insight! Would love to see you do this with an electrician, roofer, plumber, ect..
Great info! Bring back Matt every chance you get!
Thanks! We are having fun.
Im an actual hvac professional with over 20 years in the industry if you have a question
I got 6 estimates for my duplex, both units, 1750 sq.f a unit, they all came between 35-60k for both, jeeeeez, close to 20k for one unit
So interesting how different regions have such different needs and requirements. I'm sure the info in this vid works just fine in their area, but much of it is bass-ackwards and bad advice for my region.
There are only a few air conditioner factories that make the same unit for many brands.
The #1 question you should ask about a central air conditioner is the compressor. Always specify the Copeland brand Scroll-type compressor. It doesn't matter what brand unit, as long as it has a Copeland Scroll compressor in it. (stay totally away from reciprocating-type compressors...and RUN away from any Bristol brand compressor.
During installation, pay the installer an extra $75 and have him yank out the factory-installed 1-Pole contactor and replace it with a 2-Pole contactor.
Also have them install a high-pressure safety with a manual re-set. Might cost an extra 100-200 bucks.
These cheap measures have probably saved me more than $100-200K over the years, not to mention the headaches.
Do y’all not have crankcase heaters where you are?
The Mini-Split units are a good way to go.
Based on experience I think Matt is somewhat off base with mini splits. I am in Western NY so we have cold winters. We have a 1500 sq ft house with a Daikin mini split. Our most expensive heat bill is $100/month and is usually around $80 per month.
I've done systems for over 150 units. Appreciate your opinion but old buildings are porous. Most minis can't keep up unless they have been upgraded to new energy efficiency. Every winter I see guys out straight for a month replacing heat pumps that failed in cold weather. Newer systems are better but still don't compare to the btu output of a ducted fha set up.
@@LumberjackLandlordif the building is poorly insulated, with poor windows that isn’t the mini splits fault.
Some states aren’t going to give landlords options soon. New builds and replacements will have to be electric heat and mini splits are the most efficient.
Now any HVAC guy will tell you a mini split shouldn’t be the only heat source.
So I agree with what you are saying.
I LITERALLY JUST THIS PAST SATURDAY replaced the entire HVAC on one of my duplexes. Cost me 6k with parts and labor. 3 ton unit. I’ve learned so much. I’m here if anyone has a question
Did you buy a new or used HVAC? That's the lowest price I've seen in a long time?
Literally buying a property that will likely need an HVAC replacement in the next few years. Commenting for updates.
@@andresvaldes2491 everything was brand new it’s a small duplex so only needed a 3ton. 3k for parts 3k for labor.
@@TheJuxify make sure it’s actually worth it. If it’s going to take years to repay yourself don’t do it lol
Thanks for the comment and for sharing numbers! Mine would've been about $8000-8500 for just the 2.5 unit. My extra cost was ductwork labor to install a new air return and reinsulate all the ducts. Yours is still a good deal, but with the bigger unit and extra duct work that explains part of the difference, I think.
this has nothing to do with you but i'm halfway planning on getting a window unit when my central hvac goes out. they make really nice window units called midea u-shaped now (very quite, wifi control etc) and since i have a small house it will work. the 12k btu midea unit i bought for 250 (on a great sale) wiill cool 600 sq ft which is my open living space. altho i think i approached it wrong, would probably have been better to buy two 8k btu units one for bedroom and one for main space, because those would be easier on my 15 amp breakers, as well as flexibility to just cool my bedroom at night etc.
anyways ~11 years ago i got my central hvac/heat pump replaced with a goodman, 3.5 ton iirc? for 3400. i bet its way way more now. i went with a mom and pop shop as they were cheaper (the big shop in town wanted like 4500-4800 iirc), fortunately it worked out well.
Matt is an absolute beast. 👹
Thanks very much!
Who
@@CCCC-tq8yo the LUMBERJACK LANDLORD
I replaced an AC on 2023 for $10500. Got a few bids but ultimately used an AC guy that I know well and use frequently. I also insure his business so I know he's covered. I try to exclusively use people I insure and do other business with
Matt is awesome! Coach, for your rentals do you have seperate CAPEX account where you set aside funds every month, even on months when there is no CAPEX, to prepare for these type of expenses? If so, do you target a % of the rents each month , set $ amount , etc??
What we do now is set a goal for a certain amount of cash in a reserve fund (for example - 3 months of operating expenses).
Once we hit that amount of reserves, we don't keep setting cash aside. We use extra cash to buy more properties, pay off debt, or give myself personal income.
Then we pay for most CapEx out of operating profits. So, that number can fluctuate a good bit if we have high CapEx months. And if we have too many expenses that month, we'll feed the operating account with the cash reserves to top it off. And then we'll fill the reserves back up with operating profits in future months.
The only time we really had to dip a lot into reserves was 2008-2010. But I was glad we had them!!
Thanks very much!
If that’s a rooftop unit, the first thing you need to do is find somebody with a crane.
Right before the pandemic, I bought a 100k btu gas furnace, a 5 ton coil, and 5 ton condensing unit (16 SEER) along with new plenum and installation materials. That total cost was less than $3600. During the pandemic, prices increased 25-40% on equipment if you could get it.
I buy equipment for myself online and there is a warehouse where I can pick up the equipment. Post-pandemic, prices have dropped a little and equipment seems to be available now.
the picture in video was stock footage - not our actual unit. We should have used a different photo to not confuse the issue.
Thanks for sharing your experience and commenting!
Thing I ran into is mini split repairs as a landlord…
Repairs… can be 5 zillion dollars. So maybe it is fine if DIY replace or take time to find correct right tech - but challenge is for a rental where tenants expects quick repairs.
IMO as a landlord - Don’t force solutions not supported in the market of your units. If you have solid contractors in your area supporting a solution - great. If not - don’t do it. Goes for anything.
You can purchase HVAC equipment directly from a distributor and contract the labor.
What brand of A/C unite are recommended for longevity and efficiency?
In the hvac world they’re taking about SEER , and ya it varies a lot
Yes sir. Thanks for comment
I used to run a distribution site for york I would always tell those willing to listen to upgrade their unit replacements. Why ??? the equipment was only marginally more expensive so the ROI for the consumer could normally be made up within 4-6 months. For instance a 3 ton unit might be 1000 and and upgrade might be 400 more. Does not take a genius to figure out that customers are the real winners here. Figure that the installer is going to be remembered a lot longer if the power bills really are lower than what they (the consumer) had previously been paying
An issue with mini-split units - each inside unit has a condensate drain. If the unit is on an outside wall, the drain can be gravity - good to go. But if the unit is on an inside room, the drain requires a mini-pump to pump out the condensate. These WILL eventually fail, causing an inside water leak and associated damages. Will the tenant catch and report these leaks quickly? The fix is simple, but if you have a large real estate inventory with many of these pumps, you will constantly be dealing with failures. Also the drains are smaller than whole-house systems (which has one large central drain) and since they are smaller, are more prone to clogging. Additionally, each mini-split unit has a filter that needs to be cleaned vs. one filter for the entire house, and cleaned more often than the single entire-house filter. Again a potential maintenance headache. Basically mini-splits have more potential points of failure. Even more, each mini-split has it own fan and motorized vents - all potential points of failure. Mini-splits are great new, but in the long term... At one time I managed 10 homes, each having 3 heads. That totaled 30 mini-split heads, 30 filters, 30 condensate drains vs. 10 whole house units with 10 filters and 10 drains.
@@Frank-nh9fe great feedback! I learned a lot. Thank you Frank.
@@CoachChadCarson You touched on it during the video, but it might be worthwhile to go more into building improvements that save energy, cost vs. payback. Many landlords figure that they don’t pay the utility bill so why bother. Could be a rental marketing plus, but many renters shop only by rental price. Might be hard to get them to value low utility bills if other landlords don’t advertise their average utility rates. A subject worth a deep dive….
I learned the hard way and now I highly the pros for HVAC. Do you have an any spreadsheets I can scan ?
Always a great strategy
Correct! Home appraisal difference between the mini split and traditional HVAC. Does one add more home appraisal value than the other?
Thanks sir! Quality of system always impacts appraisal in the adjustments.
My furnace is still working now , it is carrier , house is 19 years old. 2.5 tons , should I replace the furnace as well ?
Not sure who told this guy there was a line set shortage, kinda hilarious. Most of the time line sets aren't replaced. They aren't unit specific either, the unit will specify a minimum size but that's it.
When a contractor is quoting duct work you really should be asking questions. Static pressure over 0.6 will burn up ECM blowers and crack heat exchanges. $1500 - $200 extra is well spent when you're not burning up a $600 ECM motor every couple years.
For a rental what you really want is single stage, non-variable speed equipment. When the control boards inevitably go out in the variable speed systems it cost nearly 1/3 of the price of the unit. Goodman (owned by Daikin) uses jellybean parts in the lower cost units. That mean it's very likely any tech that comes out will have a replacement part on his truck and that part will be a lower cost part. Brands honestly matter very little, the quality is in the installer.
Mini split units are not very repairable and finding techs who know how to work on them or are even willing to work on them are few and far between. From a business perspective I would treat mini splits as disposable unit, no different than a window unit.
A way to really bring maintenance cost down is just hire someone knowledgeable to do basic repair and maintenance. Test and replace capacitors, $12 cap vs $300 service call. Have a few spare universal fan motors, contactors, thermostats, fuses, all super easy to replace. Check and clean coils once a year, just spraying them down with a hose goes a long way. Also test equipment has come a long way. Invest in a set of bluetooth Fieldpice or Testo probes to check refrigerant levels. The app that works with those will literally tell you if and what is the issue. Not difficult for a general maintenance person to use. At least if you have to call someone in to fix it you will have an idea of what to expect. And like he said just buy the same equipment over and over. You will get to know what goes bad and how to fix it cheap and efficiently.
Maintenace is huge, but is the gas pressure set correctly, is the refrigerant charged correctly, did they do a proper evacuation. Installation quality is THE most important.
Good point. And since I don't know how to judge ANY of that it's trust with installer. I'm willing to pay up some to get someone I trust.
That comes downtown to installer and maintenence contractor. Hard to find out how good or bad someone is at install and maintaining till you have used them so diligence up front matters for sure.
I’m seeing people with 1200-1400 sf homes paying $26,000-$30,000 for a new HVAC system
I’m in CA
That’s highway robbery.
Does CA tax businesses to death?
People need to stop paying these crazy prices. The economy is about to headed to a depression as more stores close you all will be begging for work soon. My unit the line was accidentally cut by a hedger they wanted 1609 to fill the freon. 5,000 for a unit i paid 1200 for 10 years agom sorry wages are not keeping up wutb this. Bought 3 window units and couldn't be happier costs 500. Will upgrade if i sell or rent in mean time not paying these prices.
What property manager do you use?
I have a rental in Albuquerque NM need replace a whole unit of HVAC , now still getting bids , two ac company bid with heil , another one bid with Trane. If anyone of you have a good one to recommend , that is so appreciated
Happy Father's Day, Chad and Matt. Chad, you got a big shout out on lumberjacks. Sunday show and well deserved, so have a great day.
Thank you!
Go Blue!!!
Just get an AHS home warranty on the rental property for about $60 per month. They write you a check if the repair cost as much as a replacement or if a part is severely backordered
They have a cap on what they will pay out. But it is helpful if you are not handy.
Window unit. Contact Mr cool and do the installation yourself. That's what I do in the residential housing market.
It's costing me 13k parts and labor for a whole system 3.5 ton in lufkin texas
Here is California I was quoted 18k to design my HVAC system for my new construction project and 16k to install
Buy it online and find a tech that you can pay to do a side job. Offer him 750 to install....people need money and for 4 hours of work....750 is good
IMO, air filters need to be changed every 2 months to keep the dust down. this is talking about 1000sq ft and 1 person on a 2 in 1 AC/Heater
I am looking at using PTAC units like a hotel uses because they seem to perform better in the cold. Thoughts?
I use these for some of my studio apartments. So, for small spaces I'm a fan (no pun intended😄)
@@CoachChadCarsonlove the pun. 4BD 2BA 1600 sq ft. Completely gutted with spray foam new electric. One in each bedroom and the living room. Looking for medium term rentals. Am I on the right path. Mini splits seem great but we get down to -10 + degrees.
They do not work in cold climates . Look up cold climate mini splits. The best of them can supply heat down -31 F
@@andreycham4797agreed
Only in small spaces. Much better off with minisplits with cassettes that are rated for 20 below or better
New carrier 4
Ton installed $4500
In 2021, I replaced the entire HVAC systems, including ducts, for both sides of my duplex and spent about the same as you did. I'm sure prices have gone up over the last 3 years, but not that much. I got a referral from another investor for that A/C guy. It pays ("saves"?) to network.
Absolutely great advice. Thanks for the comment.
It's impossible to determine if $12k is a good price without knowing the how many ton and number of unit. As a general rule, if you're paying more than $600 per ton, you should brush up on your business skills.
20 years is a good run….a. Loy has to do with location - 1. hvac has sooooo many up off artists for swap outs. 2. HVAC is very difficult compared to latex to other trades if you do it correctly (many-most?) don’t 3. The installer is everything 4. Makes no sense to buy much over single stage for rental, but makes great sense to reach for the comfort of fully variable system …NB A p series Mitsubishi -commercial grade- would cost control or less than 7,000 in almost any case- 6,000 for less than 12 man hours that’s $400nan hour?? By the way they aren’t going to volunteer the cost of equipment…the good news ? HVAC is goign to cost substantially more starting in 2025..
Efficiency equals SEER rating for the most part. I personally would never buy another single stage compressor unit again. The minimum would be a two stage or a variable. Just replaced two units in my duplex, located in the Midwest, with two stage units. I live in California, I would replace here with variable or heat pumps, the reason is cost to the renter, inefficiency in HVAC will drive people out of your property due to how expensive electricity is here.
Market depending that solution doesn't work in places with real winters or in older homes that haven't been gutted to get energy efficiency.
Agreed, heat pumps work out here in southwest, upper Midwest and upper east it gets too cold. I only deal in single family, some duplex, all in Midwest, the difference in a single stage to a dual stage is marginal when doing a full replacement of the entire system, it’s use cost positive being past on to the tenant. So yes, it comes down to region, state/local energy cost, and class of property.
What is the appraisal difference?
Do you mean appraisal difference with one type of HVAC vs another?
the 2 man install crew will do a change out in 8 hrs and get paid under 500 labor...
Unfortunately the core components of AC systems are often made by the same company.
Just had a house in Texas quote for mini split and HVAC let me say with the mini split $1500 a head I needed 5 heads so that's $7500 plus labor I was getting close to 11k vs HVAC at 13k also if one head goes out the whole system will shut down. So I decided to go with an HVAC system. I believe the mini split it's place but sometimes not.
The lease should have made this the tenants responsibility. Worst case scenario you split it with the tenant. It's quite common on commercial properties. This is on you and your management for buying or setting up a bad lease agreement.
Completely different world. In commercial it's standard. In residential... less than 1 percent are responsible for the systems.
yeah, not normal for us either. It's landlord's responsibility to pay for replacement or repair.
@@LumberjackLandlord The unit and roof pictured look like a commercial hvac unit on a commercial property. I'd be very surprised if that is a residential property.
@-bu6kzL it's stock footage that wasnt the house. It is a house. If it is commercial. I agree. It's often called triple net. I own commercial real estate as well.
Those high price brands you mentioned are not a better warranty than a Goodman or a Daikin
Goodman does represent a good value especially on basic units. Hopefully their acquisition by Daikin doesn't change anything. A lot of the brands aren't that different. They all use similar quality parts. Evaporator, condenser coil, and compressor quality is important. I think Goodman gets a bad reputation due to substandard installation and poor maintenance.
I need to know what Matt looks like without a hat.
Gotta search hard on internet to find a pic! Lol.
No heat pump talk?
Line sets are just soft copper pipe and are readily available idk what he's talking about.
The fact that controls companies didn't have any during covid. That's a fact. I had line sets I waited 3 months for because we couldn't get them I work with some of the biggest suppliers in the country and at the peak of covid you couldn't walk into a supply house and get them. You can also make them on your own. That has an issue. Your warranty has a high likelihood of being voided when you have an issue.
@@LumberjackLandlord I'm still unsure what you're actually referring to. The line sets are just copper and you can order them on supply house or Grainger all day long. I work for a commercial HVAC contractor and I purchase this stuff all the time and have since 2019. But I'm just being nitpicky. The overall message of the video was good and made sense, but being in the HVAC trade there were a few things you said that weren't exactly correct or a little misleading.
A bunch of crooks , it’s not double material cost. You can install a system in one day…
LUMBER JACK SHOULD STICK TO TALKING ABOUT FINANCIAL VEHICLES AND TENANT PROBLEMS. I LIVE IN THE WEEDS WITH THESE PRODUCTS AND HE STARTS TALKING OUT OF HIS REAR END WHEN THE CONVERSATION GETS TOO TECHNICAL.
"I could almost buy a car for what it cost for hvac" really? Have you even looked at car prices recently? Double that price, then maybe you have one or two options
Used cars in my case. We just bought one for $20k so that's what I had in mind.
What????
Expensive and designed to fail as soon as the warranty ends. Typically less than 5, 7 or 10 years. R22 units from 1990s could last 30 years or longer.
Yes, yes mini splits are the tits
This conversation made no sense.
what could've been better?
Gave you thumbs down and hit do not recommend channel on multiple premium accounts.
Any particular reason?
I'm sick of this bidenflation
I always keep an eye out for HVAC, ELECTRICIANS, PLUMBERS, PAINTERS VANS on the streets and I'm always stopping and asking guys if they do side work. I keep a good list of people in my phone that are about 75% cheaper !!!! LOL !!!!! WELCOME TO JOE BIDEN INFLATION !!!!! VOTE TRUMP !!!! IM TOO FRUGAL TO VOTE FOR BIDEN !!!! LOL !!!!