Haha yeah I'm a prime example of this. I'm 16 and been playing for two years but I can do all this super technical Polyphia stuff really easily, can compose relativley well in this modern style aswell. But if you wanted to get me to jam some blues in e I wouldn't know where to start haha
That's exactly where I feel you're the new exception to the classic way a lot of guitarists learn - and honestly it's awesome. I'm sure if you can do all the technical stuff you'll sail through some cool E blues stuff if you ever wanted to - Just remember it's all about the feels!
So damn relatable, I play half as long as you and still play Playing God's or The Worst's main riffs on speed without a problem, but when I try improvising stuff I just end up playing pentatonic up and down making it sound boring af x)
I had the exact same experience learning bass. I think there's a certain quality in not only polyphia but the progress of instrument driven music in general right now. I'll take a wild guess and say you jumped straight into a song that was way too hard early on and just grinded through it for like a week straight? at least for me I had no stake in whether or not I successfully learned the song, only in what I *_could learn from_* the song. Techniques, intervals, chords, and usually a big spike in physical ability and comfort playing faster and more technical things. it's playing to learn the instrument itself, not the music.
Guitarist 22 years here..I find when learning another person's work, it is a hundred times harder than playing what I can create on my own..Tim never had to "learn" his songs because they just come to him
Exactly! Some songs you strive to learn as close to the original as possible because you love the tune or artist, or maybe you see a valuable technique to add to your skill set. Other stuff is either unplayable or half-assed because your style is too different from the original artist and you would basically have to learn to be them in order to learn one song. Figuring out the difference is one of the most important lessons to learn because how much of hour life do you want to spend trying to sound like someone else? Take what you like and what helps you grow, and don't stress about the rest. In the end, being yourself will be the easiest and most fulfilling.
@Frozen Pizza I wouldn't say they are S tier musicians until they have a track record of music that doesn't all sound the same, in different styles and genres, with completely innovative styles, that influences other musicians. This guy is playing very basic chords and picking them very fast.... there is nothing new about that. But if people wanna circle jerk about his music, so be it... but let's be real.... he has not been around long enough to actually influence people.
@Frozen Pizza EXACTLY... Buckethead is S tier. Why? Because he has been playing HARD for 23 years longer than Tim, and in those 23 years he has developed his skill level to that of an S tier. Tim Henson still has decades to go before he is an S tier, but he will most likely get there. He is definitely a good guitarist, and he has a unique style that, once polished, can really be some special. But right now its just niche because its not polished enough to hold water for more than a couple of songs. Buckethead can freaking jam for an hour straight and then bust out a bunch of songs that are diverse in musical genres... not many guitarists can even do that with 30 years of polish.
Tim henson grew up playing classical guitar. I feel like this is a big part of it. Classical guitarist seem to look at the fretboard more like a piano player . Most rock or band type guitarist heavily focus on chord shapes. Classical guitarist seem to have a more intuitive understanding of the fretboard making it much easier to make sense of less typical patterns.
Massive props to you for being humble and recognize all of the work and effort necessary to play in these types of bands/styles… I came across several musicians that when they recognize the can’t play this sort of styles they become smug, arrogant and hide behind their “knowledge” while trying to put down these styles with excuses like: “I used to like music when I first started playing years ago, I’ve outgrown it”, “it doesn’t groove” “it’s harmonically simple”… etc. In reality most of them just don’t want to admit they can’t play something and try to preserve their ego by putting others down, instead of having some humility like you and actually learn something even if this not their style.
@@AuroCords True. But watching Tim Henson play acoustic guitar, is much more entertaining, than a guitarist like slosh. Most guitarist can play slosh.
I can’t play it, there you have it:) but it is also boring to me. Flashy to watch, but harmonically there’s not much happening. It’s hip-hop melodies so zoomers find it familiar, that’s a whole different approach.
For me it's not preserving my ego. I just find this "fiddely-diddely" style just boring and annoying. I still learn it because of technical aspects because I've always tried to broaden my skills as much as possible. But a lot of people just genuinely don't like the music Polyphia makes even younger people. Music isn't just inherently good just because it's new and complex. Otherwise I would just be listening to classical music and jazz. It's about much more than that.
Really a great hypothesis! The same goes vice versa; I saw Polyphia joining Vai, Satch and Gilbert on stage, jamming along with an Ibanez clinic. They both completely sounded like beginners when playing along on a simple bluesy jam! That’s where I realized what you’re explaining jn this video!
Yeah I saw that, part of me wasn’t surprised to see that they weren’t as comfortable in an improvisational setting as opposed to playing something rehearsed
@@tommyapocalypse6096those “two kids” are more talented than 99% of the guitarists you will ever interact with. To say they were struggling to keep up is BS boomer mentality to pretend that old music is better than new stuff. They recorded a song with Steve Vai. Steve Vai understands the talent level of guitarists, you don’t. Get that old head mentality out of here.
henson plays the guitar since he was 10ish he is almost 30 now, they started with normal guitar stuff metal and shred, and then developed the style they use now, so i doubt they would have problems jaming to blues or metal or rock
Another thing worth pointing out, they have a very particular writing process. These more unique songs have been written with synths and arpeggiators. Then they learn it afterwards. That comes with it’s drawbacks too. It harder to be good and improvising if you always write things that are out of your reach and push it to learn it afterwards
This applies to a lot of cases. Each style has its own technical difficulties and it is hard to learn a new style of guitar if you are invested in two or three genders. In my case, I learned a lot of classic rock and some metal songs, so learning a new song from that genre was kind of easy. But when I tried to learn some classic or flamenco guitar, I could not make my phrasing nor my play as clean as I wanted. I think this is related to the complexity of the instrument. "Playing guitar" is usually means "I can play some things in the guitar", but to reallly know how to "play guitar" with all the nuances it implies is almost impossible.
Started with Chon for me at age 26 and once I COMMITED, loosened up my muscles and dedicated to branch out from oldies and basic stuff I nailed stuff off their demo which can be extremely hard. I spent a few hours and got most of Playing God down. You do need hours poured into technique and all that, but once you have solid grounding, grip and comfort with guitar you can be surprised what you're capable of learning. Good talk. Takes a while and experimentation but once you get a flow goin' it's something to be truly proud of. My best tip to anyone is never tense up and practice practice practice. Much emphasis on no tensing up, I got a strain injury in my teen years doing that overtime = poor practice with no guidance
The same student also started with a Chon song, We managed that one a bit easier but it was still a challenging one! But great advice about keeping it loose, Helping to get a better feel & flow (as well as avoiding injury)
Exactly. Very loose, flexible. I never see ichika's strumming hand tight.The most peaceful guitarist. Ichika (and Buckethead) Yet Ichika's attack is absolutely terrifying. And so is Buckethead.
This happened to me too. What most people don’t understand is that changing your style can mean that you need to start and learn how to play play your instrument again. I got obsessed with Chon when I first heard them ( which was around 2015). I was used to playing power chords, alternate picking, ect…When I discovered CHON I lost my mind and started to try and play their songs. Hybrid picking,complicated chords, insane harmony, legato… Changing your style of playing is not easy , but it’s possible with a lot of patience. And I mean a lot of patience 😂. Right now I am more comfortable playing their style, but even after almost 10 years of trying to adapt my style to a new one I still a long way to go. Practice and patience is key. And definitely taking breaks haha sometimes people want to learn how to do something and give up because they obsess to much with it.
@@dannyhood7433 YES! Dude I used to think guitar playing was like lifting weights I literally played like that in my early days, pure tension. All the time. For like 2 or 3 years then one morning I woke up in pure agony, pinched nerve in between my shoulder blade that actually disabled that arm for a couple weeks. I couldn't even press buttons on a controller without burning tight pain up my whole arm, I was really depressed during that period. "What if I never play again?" etc. Physical therapy helped but rarely it'll flare up decades later, I actually CAN'T play Master Of Puppets downstrokes only, my arm frigs up for example. Anyway, I would watch people like Jimi Hendrix and legit thought they did the same thing, tense up. It was so hard to understand how the greats did it because it was painful at times. Maybe I also thought that's where a lot of solo faces came from lol.
It's just a different style. You have to learn to adapt, but it gets easier the more you practice. I've gone weeks without playing and can still pick up my guitar and bust out a polyphia tune because I've adapted to the style through hundreds of hours of practice. Old school people can definitely play the new school stuff if they put the concentrated effort in like they did when they were younger. It's just that adults often don't have the time or desire to become obsessed with something for a while enough to get good at it. I remember reading some studies that sort of debunks the whole plasticity of the brain ending at 26. It does stop passively being as malleable, but if you focus on improving in a task, the plasticity comes back same as it had always been there. In other words, a couple of hours of uninterrupted focused practice will yield the same results as that 16 year old who just picked up a guitar and started playing polyphia.
Damn good points. Another point is that Henson developed that particular style over many years as well. His style is those years of HIS own muscle memory. Further, you can take most any song and try to replicate it perfectly but it’s never exactly the same. It’s all in the finesse of the individual player.
My friend Angel and I wanted to learn LIT by Polyphia during quarantine, and we found it massively difficult! I think we only ended up learning about 30% of the song, and watching your video made me feel really proud that we did that. Thanks for your breakdown and sharing your thoughts, I think its so cool that you did this!
absolutely agree with this, I started playing guitar a little over a year ago because of polyphia and practiced their music pretty much exclusively, I got GOAT down within the first year almost all of it up to speed (although it's not super clean). last week I tried a more traditional song which many would consider easy to broaden my playing and I struggled with it way more than I did with any polyphia song
This is really interesting for me because I am 18 and have been playing for about 9 years. the first 6 or so I learned very traditionally almost exactly how you did, but then I discovered polyphia and periphery and other modern bands. I started trying to learn their stuff and my goal and playing completely shifted and improved at a rate I had never seen before. The next 3 years I've really realized almost exactly what you've described. The polyphia stuff was really really hard for me to get at first, it was so foreign. Now it feels like second nature and I've begun to learn how to incorporate it into my own playing. Sometimes, I have a bit of trouble blending the two parts of my learning as they almost feel completely separate but the past year they've begun to click together more and more.
you should watch the videos of Tim practicing the riffs. It shows that he isn't a robot and all of us have to work our way up to tempo. Also, the fact that your student was able to learn it so well so fast is because you're a good guitar teacher.
Just gotta be musically and personally invested in learning and internalizing the style of whatever influences you have. It'll happen. Just put in the work and listen to your own playing with a critical ear.
I know exactly how u feel bro!! Ive been playing since 15 and im 37 now. I tool about 8 month off from playing for no reason but i recently picked it back up and wanted to step up to the next level so i started watching Bernth and Jason Richardsons tutorials and realized i had a couple bad habits that were really holding me back such as my pick grip. After 22 years of muscle memory it has been so hard to change these habits. But the new grip has helped me so much in my speed and sweeps. Consistency is the key..keep practicing and eventually you will have it
such an awesome video. Im kinda in the group of ppl who started out w/ polyphia but i still kinda had some more " traditional" guitar training which made learning my first polyphia riff quite hard but honestly ive gotten a LOT better at learning these riffs which makes the comparison to learning a new language pretty accurate
Completely agree bro, I’ve been gigging nearly every weekend since I was 14, I turn 47 this summer… I feel I can put my fingers to most styles and techniques until I listened to the polyphia stuff, it is just like a different language… I went through the same emotions of thinking “I can’t actually play”. I was trying to think about it in my own old school mindset. But I love that there is more to learn and there will never be a perfect musician that can play every emotion/style. The best goal is to love what you do, and love what others do. Music is not a competitive sport, and the love of it is the best path!
This is some good insight. It’s also important to point out that it’s not just the techniques of polyphia vs others, it’s learning any genre that has its specific techniques. Take flamenco as an example, you’d have to spend a good number of years to get anywhere close to understanding and executing the techniques of players like Paco and Tomatito - and that style has been around a lot longer than the Vais, Petruccis, and Hensons of the world.
Have had the same thoughts with regards to the new breed of drummers - I recognise the instrument, but what they're playing and how they approach their art is a whole new language. Camille Bigault, Emmanuelle Caplette, Chris Coleman, El Estapario Siberiano, Louis Cole (and so many more) make my head spin and my limbs wooden - but they put out really supportive,. positive and educational videos, so all I need is time and dedication... Much respect for your thoughts and processing, presentation and explanation - you're onto a subject which deserves much more investigation and discussion...thank you, and many more 'likes' than RUclips will allow me to record...
I understand and recognise the point you made in this video. With that said though, I found this video quite sad and demotivating, rather than empowering. I don’t want to choose between which styles I wish to learn in a way that’s exclusive.
This video was very insightful. I started around 2008 when I was in middle school and was influenced heavily by dad rock/death metal/death core and it heavily shaped my playing today even though I have completely different tastes. Interesting how it evolves through the generations.
As a guy who started out playing drums for years, then going to piano and music theory, i then heard GOAT and was hooked, not really on guitar, but polyphia. This eventually lead me to learn the traditional stuff, and then merge my tastes from piano into guitar (just jazz actually), polyphia is still what i love the most, and whenever something comes out, you'll be damn sure i learn it. Tbh I've never heard anybody sum up what I've learned over all those years as well as you just did, congrats!!! But also, don't think that part time polyphia isn't a thing. There's always just the little things, tiny licks, that you can learn, analyze in your own way, and then apply to everything else. Cheers!
I always viewed guitar as a sort of scale (no pun intended) with the two most difficult genres on either end. On one end of the scale, you have classical (perfect technique, fingerings, composition, musical notation and learning pieces, etc.). On the other end of the scale, you have jazz (also perfect technique, but high emphasis on improvisation, vast knowledge of uncommon chords/scales, willing to break the "rules" of music for the sake of musical freedom). I would put Polyphia closer to the classical guitar side. This definitely would require sitting down and trying to learn note-for-note their compositions (that ideally would be learned with sheet music or tab). However, I don't think learning this style of music would translate very well to being able to improvise at a random jam with other musicians (I don't mean this in a disrespectful way).
although not frequently seem, there is an improvisation language in classical music too, some pieces have the space for this. maybe some language for improvising in this modern atyle might come out. but up to the interview i watched, Henson works meticulously on the songs
I watched a video recently where Tim Henson answered twitter questions, explaining and demonstrating on his guitar. It was quite impressive. When asked what piece of music sounds easy but is really hard to play, Tim said Neon by John Mayer. He explained why it was difficult but didn’t attempt to show how it should be done on his guitar. I feel this was a good example of how even the most talented players can’t just play anything without a great deal of practice and dedication. ruclips.net/video/ulchAKGi_Y0/видео.html
I mean, I'm sure Tim could pull it off, or something equally impressive, if given the prep time. Like tou said, sfficult pieces of music require time to learn and practice, even for musicians who have essentially mastered their instrument. Neon is doubly difficult because, like Tim mentioned, it requires a huge wingspan. Similar to how very few people could play pieces composed by Rachmaninoff because they require larger-than-average-hands just to physically span the distance between keys. I've seen the video you're referring to and thought Tim displayed tremendous humbleness, and I don't think the fact that he didn't attempt Neon should be used to throw shade. Maybe that's not what you're doing though
@@adriatic.vineyards I fully agree; you have added extra detail that kind of confirms my point. Tim is a phenomenal player and I’m pretty sure that with a little practice he could easily pull it off. The fact that Tim highlighted that piece is an example of how open and honest the guy is. His style of music is very different to that of John Mayer but both are at the top of their game.
I learnt playing The Worst in the 2 weeks I got my guitar. of Couse it was hard as hell, but I slowly got the hang of it. Every time I practice it, it feels like I am learning something new every time. At first it was speed then it was Tapping then Power cords Then Harmonics and moving my hands all around the whole fret board and I didn't even have a pick yet. I don't want to learn cords; they are just boring in my eyes. It's the reason why Polyphia is my favorite band. Absolutely crazy on what they can do with the guitar and other instruments! Being able to do crazy stuff on anything is my thing. And now I'm learning O.D :)
Yeah, I been working full time at this for 35 years…it took a serious amount of time to get OD and Goat so I could almost feel good performing them with background tracks. If students had not really wanted the songs. I woulda never done them lol. Def helps to watch TH play through versions as some of the super metronomic parts he redoes live. Great vid!
I started off playing guitar 14 years ago. Two years were self taught and then I went out of my way in college to sign up for private lessons from the music department. For me, I played fingerstyle and classical mostly because playing the bass notes and melody were really helpful with keeping time. Electric guitar is a different beast and I have a hard time learning songs on it compared to fingerstyle, classical, and flamenco pieces. However, Playing God came natural to me because of my muscle memory and experience with Bossa Nova. Tim Henson inspired me to change the way I play now. I’m incorporating more of my fingers to pluck strings by hybrid picking and it felt more natural to me. His hooks are addicting and we see more artists like Mateus Asato who incorporates slides and double stops in his playing. We’re living in the next generation of guitar players and I’m excited to see where it goes. I feel confident with my playing technique and style now. My musical journey the past few years have been focusing on writing and improvising. Show me tabs for a song to play on electric guitar and I might not be able to play it exactly the same way. I can, however, take the chords and make it my own using the theory I’ve learned.
I think you're spot on. The style is just so different, you're almost starting from scratch, and worse, having to unlearn some habits or intuitions. Instead of being discouraged, I'd say the fact is that "harder" doesn't mean "better", and this style is just "different". Could the polyphia guys play all of Dave Matthews songs or (insert artist here), and could they have the FEEL of those guitar players? And could they sing at the same time? They, among others, are pioneers of this new style, so naturally they're the best at it. Zeppelin and Floyd and Hendrix were guitar gods of their day, and I'm sure it seemed to many seasoned players at the time like wow, how can they play this way? But to the kids who came up on that stuff, it came relatively easily, because that had become their starting point. Now for some the starting point is Polyphia etc. Have you ever seen the youtube video where the guy makes a bicycle with a modified steering system, i.e. the wheel turns the opposite way that you turn the handlebars? Absolutely no one who knows how to ride a bike can ride that bike at first, it's impossible. If you never rode any other kind of bike, you'd learn that bike as easily as any other person learns a normal bike. But if you already know how to ride a bike, it's very hard. But if you watch the video, you'll see that after some time, it CAN be learned, and ridden. If you really want to be able to play Polyphia, because it's a popular request from students or whatever, then stick with it... somewhere along the way something will just click, and you'll get it, and the difficulty will drop a lot overnight. Or - just be happy with what you know, and the fact that you can get enjoyment out of playing the instrument and the music that you like to play. Polyphia is pretty freaking dope though. Incredible in fact. But as instrumental music, it will never fully go mainstream.
I learned g.o.a.t. took me some months with roughly a few minutes a day practicing. in the beginning I was getting it very slowly but the learning rate increased as i was getting used to the style. it made me feel as I was a beginner in guitar playing
I completely agree, great video. I'm in your shoes as well, with students as well. Been playing guitar for over 30 years and some of this newer stuff is so different than how we traditionally learned the instrument.
I'm 29 and am just getting in to them and I have started learning goose. I feel it's easy for me but I am learning this style with only chord playing experience. I will post progress when I have whole song down.
Wow, great video! So true... Tim Henson is an incredible guitarist and has a whole new way of playing guitar. Slash and Hendrix et al was once the goal... Polyphia didn't just move the goal posts, they completely destroyed them.
Great video. I am just coming back to playing guitar. Everything is hard for me but I love playing. I think the insightful chat is right on, and I really enjoy Polyphia
Excellent video! Important subject on guitar NOBODY talks about. I grew up in 80s listening to shrapnel guitarist long before people knew yngyang malmstein. Back when he was in Steeler. I remember when flexible Steve Vai first released and rising force. No one listened to that stuff unless they were students at G I T in LA.. Paul Gilbert was teaching before racerx. Paul was in a band 'Excalibur' before that. Mr big was top 40. Jason beckar was a monster perpetual burn. Here's the thing, 80s shredders Paul Gilbert and marty Friedman Micheal Angelo batio etc have remained elite guitarist for decades. Then around 2015 (probably before that) these young terrifying guitarist are on RUclips playing percussive shredding new techniques I never seen. Ichika nito, Tim Henson, manual gardner, charlie robbins and others. Suddenly Paul Gilbert is not as hard to play(other than his speed and consistenty) Steve Vai was first one I seen to admit it playing with polyphia on video. The guys in polyphia were reminiscing with Steve Vai about ego death just made few days before. Steve humbley admitted how he loved what polyphia is doing for future of guitar. Steve said , I cannot do what polyphia does. Knowing polyphia can play most anything steve vai. Tim Henson didn't care about that, Tim loves Steve Vai being able to connect with him. They all had the up most respect for Steve.
This is pretty spot on. I'm similar age, learned on 80s solos/shredding which came quick to me as a teen and at the time I remember older people being dumbfounded. Now Polyphia has me fumbling around like I just started learning and wondering how younger kids pull this off so easy hahaha. Granted RUclips would've been amazing if we had it like it is now.
Very nice take on the general issue and the only areas you've neglected, I think are the (hybrid) instruments and sound processing. Not to disparage the playing - these guys are awesome - but a lot of the uniqueness is the post-Vai sound-processing that can maximize live harmonics, whammy bar virtuosity and tapping on an instrument that stays in tune throughout a song or, take (I mean Yngwe and Eddie, never had that!) and the 'adjusted'/modernized guitars are tailored to this style. Music will never stand still, but anyone trying to playing an accurate version of an industrial scale Polyphia track on a 1960's Strat direct through an amp, or live on a Classical acoustic guitar is going to crash and burn. Not necessarily because they won't make the chops, but because the technique has a different technical background supporting it. This sound world is very different than ye olde analog multi-tracking!
that got me right in my impostor sydrom brain-part. i got some trouble learning both polyphia songs and the new metalcore language that i started enjoying a few years ago and felt like ABSOLUTE crap when i attempted to play something new. guess what? i needed more therapy than guitar lessons. when i put playing some harder/modern songs as real goals i did it quite easily (WAY more than i could dream because of my head i think this happens because of the internet thing and the amount of GIANTS we are exposed to daily when it comes to talent and even ppl who you don't know enough to see the amount of effort they put in their guitar playing (or even other hobbies/jobs
I'd be interested to know if someone who has been playing Classical guitar for as long as you've been plying rock/metal would find it easier to play tracks by Polyphia.
They do. I think there's a classical guitar player here on RUclips that learned Polyphia. He said it's hard but not the hardest he ever learned. Jazz and classical players are simply on another level. That's why I as a classically trained guitar player want to learn jazz now.
Something funny that I’ve noticed is that polyphia sometimes can’t play their own songs. They’re amazing guitarist but even they mess up a bit live. When I went go see them in august they played some of the new songs like playing god and neurotica live. And honestly it sounded kinda rough in some areas. However when they played their NLND stuff they were really good. I remember watching older clips of them playing older songs like goat live and messing up really badly. So I guess it just takes time. They’re learning even better ways to learn their own songs.
I know how you feel brother. Good insights though and kudos for not letting the negative thoughts beat you by thinking it through and realising it's just different.
Thanks. This actually is something I needed to watch. I have been playing bass for 13 years and sometimes I feel on top of the world, and other days I'm asking myself, "Why aren't I better?" I can play quite a bit of stuff by Marcus miller which some people would consider hard, but when I tried to take a Crack at something like GOAT, which isn't entirely that complicated, I am falling flat. Granted I haven't taken a ton of time because my attention span has been short as to not be able to stay focused long enough to learn it. I also think it has to do with when you're trying to play somebody else's music, it's not your own. So no matter your skill level, ultimately only the writer will understand what they wrote fully. Because they're using whatever skill is comfortable for them as a basis to write their material. I think this is also a factor on this topic.
@RobGalley I realized this when I was trying to play one of Victor Wootens solo pieces. I wanna make a video on the topic. I've recently found your channel and I like your videos. Do you mind if I use part of a clip from this video for a topic in one of mine if I get around to it? You made some great points.
Guitaring has become super interesting latley. I love this mixing and mashing of everything from techniques and genres. Excited to see where it leads us :3
You should look at Tim's videos where he shows how he makes his songs. Essentially, he writes them on the computer and then reverse-engineer how to play something impossible back onto his real guitar.
Excellent video! Thanks for sharing your experience, I find it useful. There is another way to tackle something like this. Part of the process of learning what any artist is doing is of course learning his music however that music we get from them is the result of a process involving various components. Let’s say that you were trying to learn a Steve Vai solo. Maybe at first some of it might seem outside of your wheel house however if in addition to learning his solo you track down the artists and sources that influenced him you can see each element on its own, then the task does not seem as daunting. For example with Vai a lot of his voicing knowledge comes from Ted Greene’s “Chord Chemistry”. He also went to school to Berklee which contributed to his sight reading and music theory knowledge however the perspective of set theory is coming from jazz view, in part because Berklee is a popular music conservatory but also because his teacher during his teenage years was Joe Satriani, a rocker whom in turn studied with jazz pianist Lenny Tristano at Five Towns College in Long Island, NY. While Satriani studied with a jazz player his approach employed modalism within a rock language. Add to the mix the influence of Hendrix tones experiments, Frank Zappa’s improvisations outside the conventional blue box, and even Van Halen himself whom became of reference for two handed techniques. When you go through these sources and look back at a solo by Vai it becomes easier to understand. Henson employs use of drop 3 and drop 7th chords, in some instances substituting chord tones for extensions and even some parallel octaves into the style of Wes Montgomery. He employs some of the usual tapping resources we see with older rock guitarists. These are fairly similar common resources and can be learned. Polyphia’s music is modular in nature, still riff driven in which an event happens 4 or 8 times followed by another event that floats around for a similar length. I believe it feels somewhat unusual because in many ways it imitates the pacing of electronic music as in combining the gestures you would here lo-fi or even hip hop like track and condensing set elements into a single part guitar part. It reminds me how some musicians take Konnakol rhythmic singing and assign pitches to it and play it on a piano or a guitar. One is not use to seeing the instrument take such a rol which can be exciting as it is the case with Polyphia. Henson and his band mates are certainly very creative and industrious however they move in side of a very specific wheel house of their own confection. When they step outside of set wheel house they are not as comfortable even with fundamental skills such as merely improvising over one chord as demonstrated in the jam they had with Steve Vai. The video is circulating in social media and they are quite lost in that sort of musical situation which is honestly something most of our freshman students already do with ease. . I think they got a color that is unique and exciting, the timbres and how they get them are very creative but in the end they are part of the great man story our industry likes to push even though there aspects which are still behind compositionally speaking. Their pieces are technically intricate but it is rather a reformulation of old musical models. There is not that much use of counterpoint, there is hardly any use of post tonal harmony, no thematic development and the rhythmic vocabulary is subjected a linear language, certainly exciting in nature but not as innovative the use we have seen of polyrhythm, metric modulation and other resources. I do believe they will continue to grow musically and do really well. Innovation? I think it will happen but it has not happened yet, it is a term that is used too loosely. Innovation is Sergio Assad’s “Aquarella” or his arrangements of Piazolla’s music for solo guitar. Innovation is Alberto Ginastera’s Sonata for guitar, Allan Holdsworth’s “Sixteen men of tain”, Matteo Mancusso’s version of “Spain”, Paco de Lucia’s “Zyriab” or interpretation of the Aranjuez concerto, anything ever recorded by Victor Wooten, Tim Miller’s first two records, or any performance by Yamanu Acosta. Polyphia is good but is nowhere near the vicinity of Leo Brower’s “Black Decameron” or the microtonal experiments of Tolgahan Çogulu. I think before we talk about innovation lets consider what has already been achieved in the guitar world and compare it to that.
As someone who falls into the category of younger kids learning polyphia treat this like singing along to a song on the radio, dont worry about knowing every detail perfectly, in fact if you try to youll sound worse, just try and recreate the general rhythm and feel of the song, simplify some stuff if you need to just focus on the flow of the music
Thank you so much for your humble and straight forward experience and opinion, and for sharing it. What I can perceive and understand personally, maybe wrong, is that now, as a beginner, if you don't think exclusively in learning Jimmy Page - Hendricks, Eric Clapton, evh etc, and give Poliphia or similar styles a shot, you can learn it as well, while learning the "traditional way", and what is really great about it is that while you try and learn, you will practice very technical, nuances, arpeggios, riffs, tapping, speed, fingering, base and high note phrasing, staccato, with it. Cheers.
I think this is a healthy way to look at it! I would never go to my violin teacher that was classically-trained and played in orchestras his entire life and ask him to teach me how to be a great blue-grass fiddle player. That's why I always try to choose teachers that I want to play like. And of course we would never say Heifetz was a bad violinist just because he can't improv fiddle music well.
Great video and analysis! The only think I take any issue with is the "use it or lose it" part. I personally go months sometimes without playing ,and I don't seem to lose anything. Sometimes I even seem to get better while on hiatus. I can't be the only one like this, right?
I get bummed if I haven't had motivation to pick it up in +/- a week but the wait can reinvigorate me too. I feel more motivated and that goes a long way toward a productive practice session. Sounds like that might be the case for you too.
The timing of this video showing in my feed was perfect lol I was learning how to play "G.O.A.T" today, and it felt like I was learning how to play the guitar again.
Tim Henson is really a great player a lot of his riffs are originally written on another instrument then translated to guitar like in they're song playing god he said that he wrote the main riff on some weird Japanese electronic instrument i forgot what its called.
I may be wrong but I believe Tim creates the songs on guitar pro and uses it to learn the song. As I transcribe songs and compose myself, it is a powerful tool for really technical pieces.
I’ve been playing for 10 years and I agree. Looking at the tabs you think it’s going to be a high pitch note but it ends up being lower pitched or vice versa
unlearning old way of playing is going to be the hardest part for a seasoned guitarist. I taught myself to play in the 90's around southern CA when hair rock and shredding was hot. Polyphia's is taking guitar playing forward and it's very exciting to me.
Super interesting video. I just started playing guitar around 7 months ago and the first song I learned was playing god. I practiced for over an hour every night for around three months just to play it semi-decently at three-quarter speed. After that, however, I feel like I've picked up so many of their other songs with ease. I think it probably helps that I'm 15 and I've never learned anything other than Polyphia, so I haven't had to relearn any techniques or styles.
I started out just like you, though perhaps a bit later, and i also had experience from drums and piano. For me it was goat, and then i saw playing god as "album 4 teaser" on Instagram, and i was so proud of learning it by ear. I digress, but it's great to see someone exactly where i was a couple of years ago. If you ever need a tip from someone who were where you are, and perhaps wanna get into the more conventional stuff, I'd be more than happy to help!!!
@@luryas626 That's super nice of you! If you could give some advice that would be greatly appreciated. Right now I'm learning the main melody from "the worst" and I'm having some trouble with the first chord which is 8797 on the middle four strings. it's meant to be played as a barre chord, but I can't get all the strings to sound without being fuzzy or muted.
@4:41 I really dig what you said! A lot of people see some amazing players and said "It's because he/she is talented." Or something like that. I mean, I do believe in talent. But IMO, dedication and consistency count more. No matter it's a musician, athlete, whatever the profession.
So, in terms of how long I've been practicing guitar seriously, I have maybe 1 to 2 years of serious practice, and the thing about Polyphia and Tim Henson in particular is that, they may be the first band to make me realize that I could actually get good at guitar. The reason for that is not something you touch in the video explicitly, but I can infer it from what you actually said about muscle memory, and it's the fact that instead of learning what we consider the basics, like strumming patterns, then chords, then scales, and then easy songs - although I HAVE done a bit of that too - I'm mostly first focusing on actual techniques. Polyphia and other guitarists today use a lot of things like harmonics, hybrid picking, etc.... and since I like how that sounds, I'm learning that too. The idea that I have in mind is that once I have a good expertise, if not mastery, of these techniques, learning more elementary stuff will feel so much easier. It's basically the mentality of learning how to run before walking, I guess. And the cool thing about that approach, to me at least, is that while it doesn't underestimate the sheer technical genius of Tim Henson, it also kind of demystifies his abilities, makes him a bit more relatable as a player which, in turn, feels to me is the most important aspect of a guitarist that can be seen as a role model or an inspiration.
in response to this imposter feeling someone told me: if your student surpasses you, THAT'S what you want as a teacher, as your skillset should not be to be better than everyone, but to help your students on the way to become the best they can. As I understand you have a skill to identify the problems and weaknesses and that's far more important than anything, you learned all the stuff around the playing and have experience, so your student doesn't have to learn all that by himself and concentrate on learning. And the most important skill is the self reflection and to be able to take a step back. loved the humble attitude and your take is very interesting, I grew up with such music developing into suff like polyphia and never even thought about it ❤
I agree, I've been playing for 23 years and I have owned 39 different guitars, I say this because I have no reason to play in a band. It's more of a fetish for sound and notes and melodies but I too have found it hard at times to learn some styles of music. I can relearn things much faster rate because my hand is already familiar but honestly I've grown from metal head into more of a finger picking classical player and now I find it very hard to alternate pick extremely fast because of it. The finger picking has become so natural for me that I almost prefer it with most things I play now and I use a pick maybe 25% of the time
Very well said Sir... I am a few months of 60 years old... (been playing 51 of those) and yeah ... these Guys are impressive!!! and no I will not Even try to figure this stuff out... I"ll let them take it !!
it took me about a year to learn Goose, partly because I'm terribly obsessive and wanted to get it PERFECT (which I still can't) and partly because I couldn't sit down every day but every other day or less than that. It's definitely challenging but very inspiring and educational to learn their songs. Also very humbling.
I'd like to add to your assessment of why your student learned the song easier & made the same progress you did despite the years of experience you have over him.. I'm going to say one word.. inspiration. It was his burning desire to Play a song from the brain of Tim Henson. Your inspiration is rooted in teaching what you student has asked you to teach him. It's your job it's your duty & if you want to keep your job you do your duty to the best of your ability. I remember wanting to play Dee by Randy Rhoades .. I worked & worked at that song I got it down but only pulled it off flawlessly what seemed to be a handful of times. Then ozzy released the live album with Brad Gillis playing all old Sabbath tunes. But there was the studio outtakes of Randy playing Dee. It assured me Randy was human.. Tim... im not so sure. I think there's circuitry & hydrolic fluid beneath that guy's skin... lol He put the time in with Leplante.. which brings me to another point.. youre only as good as your competition. Surround yourself with people better than you.. reach for the seemingly impossible.. it's achievable how bad do you want it
I think something similar happened when all the classic rock players saw the 80s shred players. When something completely new comes along, it is like learning a new instrument
I'm 33 playing since I'm 13 and i feel the same way as you do, I find Polyphia amazing and would love to learn to play or imcorporate something similar in my playing but don't even know where to start, it looks alien to me
Literally the song playing god got me hooked on polyphia strictly on their creative use of a combination of picking techniques and plucking literally dumbfounded me! Then I found out that they did like melodic shred like 7 or 8 years ago with songs like 87, hourglass, and impulse, and I fell in love with the band!
I’ve been playing for 22 years, blues, classical, fingerstyle, and metal. I started learning Polyphia songs last year and at first it did feel a bit funny, but like all things you just have to do a lot of repetitions. It will feel just as natural as anything else you’ve learned.
Fantastic video! In my case, when my students wanted to learn Polyphia I was thrilled! I thought to myself that I would have an excuse to level up my own playing. However, each time said students would return to more traditional, free form metal/rock after a short period of time. The free form aspect of more traditonal metal spoke to them more than the orchestrated beast that is modern prog/metal.
I think for the most part its a matter of peoples muscle-memory not know how to play in the way Polyphia write their songs/riffs. I'll try and explain, but it might get confusing. Polyphia, when they write a song they dont nessecarily start out by jamming out a few chords on a guitar, but the basically take beats and thanslate the notes to the cororsponding freths on the guitar to get the notes from the beat. This way, a simple little beat you come up with might require you to hit notes ALL OVER the freatboard, or maybe you gotta feks use harmonics to fill in for those notes you cannot get on a guitar for example. This method has actually been around for years, but since things quickly gets mad difficoult that way - people have just chosen not to. Their music is therefore structured quite differently and doesn't share alot of the same structure that most songs have, or that people learn. You know, normally when writing for guitar, everyone basically follow the typical same set of ''rules'' or chord-progressions ect. The reason for that is probably because it makes playing alot easier to play and write from way back when or something. Ya'll also probably already know that when we play guitar its actually our subconcious musclememory that's doing most of the playing. I bet that some of you more experienced players have at one point thought to yourselfs ''I have no idea how I just did that, my hands just played it'' and you can test this yourself the next time you're playing. Take a fast-ish solo, scale or lick you know and I want you to really focus on each and every note you're hitting. Like, really think about what you're doing as you're doing it and I bet that most of you are gonna notice that it gets much more difficoult to play at the same speed, or it might completely knock you off. That's because you just tried to play with your consious memory. And since many songs are structured in the same way, we often kinda do the same shit with minor differences when playing different songs. If you suddenly try to do something that's completely different and the ''system'' you've been following for years or decades suddenly doesn't apply - your musclememory doesn't know what the fuck to do. And then you gotta re-train your musclememory in order to play in these new and different ways. Someone who's been playing for may years could also struggle much more because their body is trying so hard to do what it's been doing for years/decades.
I AM 66. AND LOVEE POLIPHIA AND THERE NEW APPROCH TO MUSIC ON GUITAT..IT REMIND ME WHEN WE FIRST HEARD ERUPTION IN 78.. WOW. SO MUCH ENTRTAINMENT AND ENJOYMENT. CHECK OUT FRANK GAMBALA I LIKE TO HEAR FRANK AND TIM JAM .BOTH HAVE UNIQUE STYLES. OR BILLY STRINGS. ADVICE: INBRACE YOUR STYLE ,DONT MESURE YOUR PLAYING AS GOOD OR BAD AGAINST ANOTHE ARTIST. BE YOU JUST BE AND ENJOY THE MUSIC YOU MAKE MY FAVE GUITAR PLAYER FROM MY YOUTH IS ROBIN TROWER . MY FIRST GUITAR INFLUENCE. NOW TIM HAS GIVEN ME NEW IDEAS LIGHT LOVE AND PEACE. TOZZ
I agree I’ve only played guitar for about 8 months but I can get the intros at least to a few songs of polyphias like goose but if I had to do blues I’d be clueless
Whenever one of my students wants to learn something that I don't know, I use it as an opportunity to show them how to teach yourself a new song or new technique. Since we are both learning it together, they get to see first hand how an experienced player goes about learning something new and challenging. So, the learning process becomes the lesson, rather than the song. Polyphia would be a tough one though...as you say, it's a whole school of techniques that will take singular dedication to master.
In a recent video, I saw the back of the neck of Tim's original THBB10. I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be satin, but it was polished, by his hands. I'm pretty sure the number of hours that guy practices is unreal.
I think you need to relax when it comes to learning new songs. If you listen to a song 1 time a day for 10 days you will remember it but if you listen to it 10 times a day fir 10 days your mind will subconsciously connect your ear memory from listening to your hands because music is not just training hands and muscle memory. Its connecting pitch, timing, and emotion then translating it through your hands. So keep listening to the song while learning the notes and at some point it will all connect and flow without thinking.
Also its worth mentioning that tim composes with arpeggiators and randomizers and such and then learns the parts on guitar so some parts are not always gonna be logical enough to be remembered.
Just stumbled on this video and I wanted to give my two cents in a broader perspective. Don't forget that age plays a very major role in learning. It's not just about the context (like you said with your french example), but younger brains learn and adapt at an incredible speed compared to older brains and we just can't catch up. I still remember how easy it was for me to pick up and learn stuff when I was a teen, now it's hard even to get interested in new things. We built our frameworks time ago and that's it, be it guitar, relationships and whatnot, and we kinda have to hope they remain relevant throughout the years :D At the end of the day it doesn't matter if we cannot play songs that use new frameworks, it's not about ourselves really and we can't fight biology. All that matters is to help younger people develop their own way of doing things by trying to get close to their frameworks and help them with that, such is the essence of teaching. We've got the experience and knowledge, they've got the potential. One day they will do the same with other younger people and that's how we get better as society and as human race. It's true that old dogs can't learn new tricks, but they can still put up some damn good show with the stuff they already know that will inspire others to build new things. There's no point in comparing ourselves with the new stuff, that's not where we are supposed to play our game. There's no doubt that we are good at what we do, we just need to use it in a slightly different way and with a different goal.
Some great words! Probably being a bit hard on myself but the social media world doesn’t help with a bit of a desire to ‘keep up’! But, we can only do our best & give ourselves a break! As long as we’re enjoying the journey that is playing guitar!
Old dogs CAN learn new tricks. It just takes longer and much more dedication. And if you kept always learning new things throughout your life exactly to avoid getting stuck then you won't at least have such a hard time learning the new stuff. I don't like Polyphia but I always learned new things for the technical aspects. It will help you to not stagnate in your playing.
So true what you said. But there are few artists who have been influenced by the greatest of their time and then they developed their own sound. Take Textures for example. One can clearly hear the old school thrash and death metal sounds as their influences. But combining them and making it their own, it still sounds futuristic and ahead of their time from most of the progressive metal bands these days.
I also thought this was new music. I’m new to them…and love them…but I choose to feel the vibe of what they are doing and pick off anything I might find useful for my own style. After all, they already exist. No need to copy them, unless you just want to. But I do now look at music, and my music differently…and for that I’m ultra thankful for discovering them. Great post by you though.
Haha yeah I'm a prime example of this. I'm 16 and been playing for two years but I can do all this super technical Polyphia stuff really easily, can compose relativley well in this modern style aswell. But if you wanted to get me to jam some blues in e I wouldn't know where to start haha
That's exactly where I feel you're the new exception to the classic way a lot of guitarists learn - and honestly it's awesome. I'm sure if you can do all the technical stuff you'll sail through some cool E blues stuff if you ever wanted to - Just remember it's all about the feels!
@@RobGalley Thanks for the pin bro ! I do wanna learn improv and blues since I'm a big fan of listening to all styles of guitar not just Polyphia :)
So damn relatable, I play half as long as you and still play Playing God's or The Worst's main riffs on speed without a problem, but when I try improvising stuff I just end up playing pentatonic up and down making it sound boring af x)
@@grakalamontages5066 Haha yeah I've been there bro
I had the exact same experience learning bass. I think there's a certain quality in not only polyphia but the progress of instrument driven music in general right now. I'll take a wild guess and say you jumped straight into a song that was way too hard early on and just grinded through it for like a week straight? at least for me I had no stake in whether or not I successfully learned the song, only in what I *_could learn from_* the song. Techniques, intervals, chords, and usually a big spike in physical ability and comfort playing faster and more technical things.
it's playing to learn the instrument itself, not the music.
Guitarist 22 years here..I find when learning another person's work, it is a hundred times harder than playing what I can create on my own..Tim never had to "learn" his songs because they just come to him
Exactly! Some songs you strive to learn as close to the original as possible because you love the tune or artist, or maybe you see a valuable technique to add to your skill set. Other stuff is either unplayable or half-assed because your style is too different from the original artist and you would basically have to learn to be them in order to learn one song.
Figuring out the difference is one of the most important lessons to learn because how much of hour life do you want to spend trying to sound like someone else? Take what you like and what helps you grow, and don't stress about the rest. In the end, being yourself will be the easiest and most fulfilling.
No no no. We are just lazy. Tim creates on midi and then is playing it for hours
Tim actually had said on many occasions that he has to learn his parts and that he writes deliberately tricky lines.
@Frozen Pizza I wouldn't say they are S tier musicians until they have a track record of music that doesn't all sound the same, in different styles and genres, with completely innovative styles, that influences other musicians. This guy is playing very basic chords and picking them very fast.... there is nothing new about that. But if people wanna circle jerk about his music, so be it... but let's be real.... he has not been around long enough to actually influence people.
@Frozen Pizza EXACTLY... Buckethead is S tier. Why? Because he has been playing HARD for 23 years longer than Tim, and in those 23 years he has developed his skill level to that of an S tier. Tim Henson still has decades to go before he is an S tier, but he will most likely get there. He is definitely a good guitarist, and he has a unique style that, once polished, can really be some special. But right now its just niche because its not polished enough to hold water for more than a couple of songs. Buckethead can freaking jam for an hour straight and then bust out a bunch of songs that are diverse in musical genres... not many guitarists can even do that with 30 years of polish.
Tim henson grew up playing classical guitar. I feel like this is a big part of it. Classical guitarist seem to look at the fretboard more like a piano player . Most rock or band type guitarist heavily focus on chord shapes. Classical guitarist seem to have a more intuitive understanding of the fretboard making it much easier to make sense of less typical patterns.
YES. This is the best explanation I have seen so far on this thread.
Pretty sure he grew up playing violin and switched to guitar later
@@phalanger1that's right but anyway he was a classical player, and his mom was a classical violin player so it helped in some way I guess
Massive props to you for being humble and recognize all of the work and effort necessary to play in these types of bands/styles… I came across several musicians that when they recognize the can’t play this sort of styles they become smug, arrogant and hide behind their “knowledge” while trying to put down these styles with excuses like: “I used to like music when I first started playing years ago, I’ve outgrown it”, “it doesn’t groove” “it’s harmonically simple”… etc. In reality most of them just don’t want to admit they can’t play something and try to preserve their ego by putting others down, instead of having some humility like you and actually learn something even if this not their style.
Thanks man! Just because I can’t play something it doesn’t mean it’s not good!
@@RobGalleybecause something's hard doesn't mean it's good either tho. I guess "good" is just subjective.
@@AuroCords True. But watching Tim Henson play acoustic guitar, is much more entertaining, than a guitarist like slosh. Most guitarist can play slosh.
I can’t play it, there you have it:) but it is also boring to me. Flashy to watch, but harmonically there’s not much happening. It’s hip-hop melodies so zoomers find it familiar, that’s a whole different approach.
For me it's not preserving my ego. I just find this "fiddely-diddely" style just boring and annoying. I still learn it because of technical aspects because I've always tried to broaden my skills as much as possible. But a lot of people just genuinely don't like the music Polyphia makes even younger people. Music isn't just inherently good just because it's new and complex. Otherwise I would just be listening to classical music and jazz. It's about much more than that.
Really a great hypothesis!
The same goes vice versa; I saw Polyphia joining Vai, Satch and Gilbert on stage, jamming along with an Ibanez clinic.
They both completely sounded like beginners when playing along on a simple bluesy jam!
That’s where I realized what you’re explaining jn this video!
Yeah I saw that, part of me wasn’t surprised to see that they weren’t as comfortable in an improvisational setting as opposed to playing something rehearsed
I saw that video too. It was almost painful to watch those two kids try to keep up.
Magician vs artist
@@tommyapocalypse6096those “two kids” are more talented than 99% of the guitarists you will ever interact with. To say they were struggling to keep up is BS boomer mentality to pretend that old music is better than new stuff.
They recorded a song with Steve Vai. Steve Vai understands the talent level of guitarists, you don’t. Get that old head mentality out of here.
henson plays the guitar since he was 10ish he is almost 30 now, they started with normal guitar stuff metal and shred, and then developed the style they use now, so i doubt they would have problems jaming to blues or metal or rock
Another thing worth pointing out, they have a very particular writing process. These more unique songs have been written with synths and arpeggiators. Then they learn it afterwards. That comes with it’s drawbacks too. It harder to be good and improvising if you always write things that are out of your reach and push it to learn it afterwards
Exactly. And they write the stuff at a slower bpm then speed it up in post so that they can learn how to play it that fast.
This applies to a lot of cases. Each style has its own technical difficulties and it is hard to learn a new style of guitar if you are invested in two or three genders. In my case, I learned a lot of classic rock and some metal songs, so learning a new song from that genre was kind of easy. But when I tried to learn some classic or flamenco guitar, I could not make my phrasing nor my play as clean as I wanted.
I think this is related to the complexity of the instrument. "Playing guitar" is usually means "I can play some things in the guitar", but to reallly know how to "play guitar" with all the nuances it implies is almost impossible.
'Playing guitar' Is pretty vague when you think about it! Just like driving could be anything from a lawnmower to a Lamborghini..
Started with Chon for me at age 26 and once I COMMITED, loosened up my muscles and dedicated to branch out from oldies and basic stuff I nailed stuff off their demo which can be extremely hard. I spent a few hours and got most of Playing God down. You do need hours poured into technique and all that, but once you have solid grounding, grip and comfort with guitar you can be surprised what you're capable of learning. Good talk. Takes a while and experimentation but once you get a flow goin' it's something to be truly proud of. My best tip to anyone is never tense up and practice practice practice. Much emphasis on no tensing up, I got a strain injury in my teen years doing that overtime = poor practice with no guidance
The same student also started with a Chon song, We managed that one a bit easier but it was still a challenging one! But great advice about keeping it loose, Helping to get a better feel & flow (as well as avoiding injury)
@@RobGalley Thanks. Cheers!
Exactly. Very loose, flexible. I never see ichika's strumming hand tight.The most peaceful guitarist. Ichika (and Buckethead) Yet Ichika's attack is absolutely terrifying. And so is Buckethead.
This happened to me too. What most people don’t understand is that changing your style can mean that you need to start and learn how to play play your instrument again. I got obsessed with Chon when I first heard them ( which was around 2015). I was used to playing power chords, alternate picking, ect…When I discovered CHON I lost my mind and started to try and play their songs. Hybrid picking,complicated chords, insane harmony, legato… Changing your style of playing is not easy , but it’s possible with a lot of patience. And I mean a lot of patience 😂. Right now I am more comfortable playing their style, but even after almost 10 years of trying to adapt my style to a new one I still a long way to go. Practice and patience is key. And definitely taking breaks haha sometimes people want to learn how to do something and give up because they obsess to much with it.
@@dannyhood7433 YES! Dude I used to think guitar playing was like lifting weights I literally played like that in my early days, pure tension. All the time. For like 2 or 3 years then one morning I woke up in pure agony, pinched nerve in between my shoulder blade that actually disabled that arm for a couple weeks. I couldn't even press buttons on a controller without burning tight pain up my whole arm, I was really depressed during that period. "What if I never play again?" etc. Physical therapy helped but rarely it'll flare up decades later, I actually CAN'T play Master Of Puppets downstrokes only, my arm frigs up for example.
Anyway, I would watch people like Jimi Hendrix and legit thought they did the same thing, tense up. It was so hard to understand how the greats did it because it was painful at times. Maybe I also thought that's where a lot of solo faces came from lol.
It's just a different style. You have to learn to adapt, but it gets easier the more you practice. I've gone weeks without playing and can still pick up my guitar and bust out a polyphia tune because I've adapted to the style through hundreds of hours of practice.
Old school people can definitely play the new school stuff if they put the concentrated effort in like they did when they were younger. It's just that adults often don't have the time or desire to become obsessed with something for a while enough to get good at it.
I remember reading some studies that sort of debunks the whole plasticity of the brain ending at 26. It does stop passively being as malleable, but if you focus on improving in a task, the plasticity comes back same as it had always been there. In other words, a couple of hours of uninterrupted focused practice will yield the same results as that 16 year old who just picked up a guitar and started playing polyphia.
Damn good points. Another point is that Henson developed that particular style over many years as well. His style is those years of HIS own muscle memory. Further, you can take most any song and try to replicate it perfectly but it’s never exactly the same. It’s all in the finesse of the individual player.
My friend Angel and I wanted to learn LIT by Polyphia during quarantine, and we found it massively difficult! I think we only ended up learning about 30% of the song, and watching your video made me feel really proud that we did that. Thanks for your breakdown and sharing your thoughts, I think its so cool that you did this!
absolutely agree with this, I started playing guitar a little over a year ago because of polyphia and practiced their music pretty much exclusively, I got GOAT down within the first year almost all of it up to speed (although it's not super clean). last week I tried a more traditional song which many would consider easy to broaden my playing and I struggled with it way more than I did with any polyphia song
interesting, I've played for 20 years and ghost was a nightmare to me
This is really interesting for me because I am 18 and have been playing for about 9 years. the first 6 or so I learned very traditionally almost exactly how you did, but then I discovered polyphia and periphery and other modern bands. I started trying to learn their stuff and my goal and playing completely shifted and improved at a rate I had never seen before. The next 3 years I've really realized almost exactly what you've described. The polyphia stuff was really really hard for me to get at first, it was so foreign. Now it feels like second nature and I've begun to learn how to incorporate it into my own playing. Sometimes, I have a bit of trouble blending the two parts of my learning as they almost feel completely separate but the past year they've begun to click together more and more.
you should watch the videos of Tim practicing the riffs. It shows that he isn't a robot and all of us have to work our way up to tempo. Also, the fact that your student was able to learn it so well so fast is because you're a good guitar teacher.
Just gotta be musically and personally invested in learning and internalizing the style of whatever influences you have. It'll happen. Just put in the work and listen to your own playing with a critical ear.
Can't fault that. We can't settle for anything less than the standard we set for ourselves!
I know exactly how u feel bro!! Ive been playing since 15 and im 37 now. I tool about 8 month off from playing for no reason but i recently picked it back up and wanted to step up to the next level so i started watching Bernth and Jason Richardsons tutorials and realized i had a couple bad habits that were really holding me back such as my pick grip. After 22 years of muscle memory it has been so hard to change these habits. But the new grip has helped me so much in my speed and sweeps. Consistency is the key..keep practicing and eventually you will have it
It takes much longer to unlearn bad habits. But keep at it. In the end you'll get there.
THANK YOU" Thank you for being honest! Thank you for saying what a lot of us 30+ yrs guitarist's feels.
such an awesome video. Im kinda in the group of ppl who started out w/ polyphia but i still kinda had some more " traditional" guitar training which made learning my first polyphia riff quite hard but honestly ive gotten a LOT better at learning these riffs which makes the comparison to learning a new language pretty accurate
Totally relatable. But it’s awesome to see what the guitar has come to! You gotta do what what you can do and roll with it!
Completely agree bro, I’ve been gigging nearly every weekend since I was 14, I turn 47 this summer… I feel I can put my fingers to most styles and techniques until I listened to the polyphia stuff, it is just like a different language… I went through the same emotions of thinking “I can’t actually play”. I was trying to think about it in my own old school mindset. But I love that there is more to learn and there will never be a perfect musician that can play every emotion/style. The best goal is to love what you do, and love what others do. Music is not a competitive sport, and the love of it is the best path!
Exactly! Journey rather than destination- that’s where it’s at. Thanks for watching!
This is some good insight. It’s also important to point out that it’s not just the techniques of polyphia vs others, it’s learning any genre that has its specific techniques. Take flamenco as an example, you’d have to spend a good number of years to get anywhere close to understanding and executing the techniques of players like Paco and Tomatito - and that style has been around a lot longer than the Vais, Petruccis, and Hensons of the world.
Great thought process Rob. You have to approach it with a near-to tabula rasa mentality.
Have had the same thoughts with regards to the new breed of drummers - I recognise the instrument, but what they're playing and how they approach their art is a whole new language. Camille Bigault, Emmanuelle Caplette, Chris Coleman, El Estapario Siberiano, Louis Cole (and so many more) make my head spin and my limbs wooden - but they put out really supportive,. positive and educational videos, so all I need is time and dedication...
Much respect for your thoughts and processing, presentation and explanation - you're onto a subject which deserves much more investigation and discussion...thank you, and many more 'likes' than RUclips will allow me to record...
I understand and recognise the point you made in this video. With that said though, I found this video quite sad and demotivating, rather than empowering. I don’t want to choose between which styles I wish to learn in a way that’s exclusive.
This video was very insightful. I started around 2008 when I was in middle school and was influenced heavily by dad rock/death metal/death core and it heavily shaped my playing today even though I have completely different tastes. Interesting how it evolves through the generations.
As a guy who started out playing drums for years, then going to piano and music theory, i then heard GOAT and was hooked, not really on guitar, but polyphia. This eventually lead me to learn the traditional stuff, and then merge my tastes from piano into guitar (just jazz actually), polyphia is still what i love the most, and whenever something comes out, you'll be damn sure i learn it. Tbh I've never heard anybody sum up what I've learned over all those years as well as you just did, congrats!!! But also, don't think that part time polyphia isn't a thing. There's always just the little things, tiny licks, that you can learn, analyze in your own way, and then apply to everything else. Cheers!
I always viewed guitar as a sort of scale (no pun intended) with the two most difficult genres on either end. On one end of the scale, you have classical (perfect technique, fingerings, composition, musical notation and learning pieces, etc.). On the other end of the scale, you have jazz (also perfect technique, but high emphasis on improvisation, vast knowledge of uncommon chords/scales, willing to break the "rules" of music for the sake of musical freedom).
I would put Polyphia closer to the classical guitar side. This definitely would require sitting down and trying to learn note-for-note their compositions (that ideally would be learned with sheet music or tab). However, I don't think learning this style of music would translate very well to being able to improvise at a random jam with other musicians (I don't mean this in a disrespectful way).
although not frequently seem, there is an improvisation language in classical music too, some pieces have the space for this. maybe some language for improvising in this modern atyle might come out. but up to the interview i watched, Henson works meticulously on the songs
I watched a video recently where Tim Henson answered twitter questions, explaining and demonstrating on his guitar. It was quite impressive. When asked what piece of music sounds easy but is really hard to play, Tim said Neon by John Mayer. He explained why it was difficult but didn’t attempt to show how it should be done on his guitar. I feel this was a good example of how even the most talented players can’t just play anything without a great deal of practice and dedication.
ruclips.net/video/ulchAKGi_Y0/видео.html
I mean, I'm sure Tim could pull it off, or something equally impressive, if given the prep time. Like tou said, sfficult pieces of music require time to learn and practice, even for musicians who have essentially mastered their instrument. Neon is doubly difficult because, like Tim mentioned, it requires a huge wingspan. Similar to how very few people could play pieces composed by Rachmaninoff because they require larger-than-average-hands just to physically span the distance between keys.
I've seen the video you're referring to and thought Tim displayed tremendous humbleness, and I don't think the fact that he didn't attempt Neon should be used to throw shade. Maybe that's not what you're doing though
@@adriatic.vineyards I fully agree; you have added extra detail that kind of confirms my point. Tim is a phenomenal player and I’m pretty sure that with a little practice he could easily pull it off. The fact that Tim highlighted that piece is an example of how open and honest the guy is. His style of music is very different to that of John Mayer but both are at the top of their game.
This is the transparency I like.
When I saw that video, I liked Tim more and wasn't quite as jealous about his playing 😆
Neon is a beast!
Link the video
I learnt playing The Worst in the 2 weeks I got my guitar. of Couse it was hard as hell, but I slowly got the hang of it. Every time I practice it, it feels like I am learning something new every time. At first it was speed then it was Tapping then Power cords Then Harmonics and moving my hands all around the whole fret board and I didn't even have a pick yet. I don't want to learn cords; they are just boring in my eyes. It's the reason why Polyphia is my favorite band. Absolutely crazy on what they can do with the guitar and other instruments! Being able to do crazy stuff on anything is my thing.
And now I'm learning O.D :)
Yeah, I been working full time at this for 35 years…it took a serious amount of time to get OD and Goat so I could almost feel good performing them with background tracks. If students had not really wanted the songs. I woulda never done them lol. Def helps to watch TH play through versions as some of the super metronomic parts he redoes live. Great vid!
I felt exactly the same way when I first heard the intro to Lark's Tongues In Aspic Pt. III by King Crimson.
So relatable...God Bless you man...Music is about the soul..Music is varied💯
I started off playing guitar 14 years ago. Two years were self taught and then I went out of my way in college to sign up for private lessons from the music department. For me, I played fingerstyle and classical mostly because playing the bass notes and melody were really helpful with keeping time. Electric guitar is a different beast and I have a hard time learning songs on it compared to fingerstyle, classical, and flamenco pieces. However, Playing God came natural to me because of my muscle memory and experience with Bossa Nova. Tim Henson inspired me to change the way I play now. I’m incorporating more of my fingers to pluck strings by hybrid picking and it felt more natural to me. His hooks are addicting and we see more artists like Mateus Asato who incorporates slides and double stops in his playing. We’re living in the next generation of guitar players and I’m excited to see where it goes.
I feel confident with my playing technique and style now. My musical journey the past few years have been focusing on writing and improvising. Show me tabs for a song to play on electric guitar and I might not be able to play it exactly the same way. I can, however, take the chords and make it my own using the theory I’ve learned.
I think you're spot on. The style is just so different, you're almost starting from scratch, and worse, having to unlearn some habits or intuitions. Instead of being discouraged, I'd say the fact is that "harder" doesn't mean "better", and this style is just "different". Could the polyphia guys play all of Dave Matthews songs or (insert artist here), and could they have the FEEL of those guitar players? And could they sing at the same time? They, among others, are pioneers of this new style, so naturally they're the best at it. Zeppelin and Floyd and Hendrix were guitar gods of their day, and I'm sure it seemed to many seasoned players at the time like wow, how can they play this way? But to the kids who came up on that stuff, it came relatively easily, because that had become their starting point. Now for some the starting point is Polyphia etc.
Have you ever seen the youtube video where the guy makes a bicycle with a modified steering system, i.e. the wheel turns the opposite way that you turn the handlebars? Absolutely no one who knows how to ride a bike can ride that bike at first, it's impossible. If you never rode any other kind of bike, you'd learn that bike as easily as any other person learns a normal bike. But if you already know how to ride a bike, it's very hard. But if you watch the video, you'll see that after some time, it CAN be learned, and ridden. If you really want to be able to play Polyphia, because it's a popular request from students or whatever, then stick with it... somewhere along the way something will just click, and you'll get it, and the difficulty will drop a lot overnight. Or - just be happy with what you know, and the fact that you can get enjoyment out of playing the instrument and the music that you like to play.
Polyphia is pretty freaking dope though. Incredible in fact. But as instrumental music, it will never fully go mainstream.
I learned g.o.a.t. took me some months with roughly a few minutes a day practicing. in the beginning I was getting it very slowly but the learning rate increased as i was getting used to the style. it made me feel as I was a beginner in guitar playing
I completely agree, great video. I'm in your shoes as well, with students as well. Been playing guitar for over 30 years and some of this newer stuff is so different than how we traditionally learned the instrument.
I'm 29 and am just getting in to them and I have started learning goose. I feel it's easy for me but I am learning this style with only chord playing experience. I will post progress when I have whole song down.
Wow, great video! So true... Tim Henson is an incredible guitarist and has a whole new way of playing guitar. Slash and Hendrix et al was once the goal... Polyphia didn't just move the goal posts, they completely destroyed them.
Great video. I am just coming back to playing guitar. Everything is hard for me but I love playing. I think the insightful chat is right on, and I really enjoy Polyphia
I mean, Tim Henson is an _outstandingly_ gifted musician, that's probably the key part of it.
Excellent video! Important subject on guitar NOBODY talks about. I grew up in 80s listening to shrapnel guitarist long before people knew yngyang malmstein. Back when he was in Steeler. I remember when flexible Steve Vai first released and rising force. No one listened to that stuff unless they were students at G I T in LA.. Paul Gilbert was teaching before racerx. Paul was in a band 'Excalibur' before that. Mr big was top 40. Jason beckar was a monster perpetual burn. Here's the thing, 80s shredders Paul Gilbert and marty Friedman Micheal Angelo batio etc have remained elite guitarist for decades. Then around 2015 (probably before that) these young terrifying guitarist are on RUclips playing percussive shredding new techniques I never seen. Ichika nito, Tim Henson, manual gardner, charlie robbins and others. Suddenly Paul Gilbert is not as hard to play(other than his speed and consistenty) Steve Vai was first one I seen to admit it playing with polyphia on video. The guys in polyphia were reminiscing with Steve Vai about ego death just made few days before. Steve humbley admitted how he loved what polyphia is doing for future of guitar. Steve said , I cannot do what polyphia does. Knowing polyphia can play most anything steve vai. Tim Henson didn't care about that, Tim loves Steve Vai being able to connect with him. They all had the up most respect for Steve.
This is pretty spot on. I'm similar age, learned on 80s solos/shredding which came quick to me as a teen and at the time I remember older people being dumbfounded. Now Polyphia has me fumbling around like I just started learning and wondering how younger kids pull this off so easy hahaha. Granted RUclips would've been amazing if we had it like it is now.
Very nice take on the general issue and the only areas you've neglected, I think are the (hybrid) instruments and sound processing. Not to disparage the playing - these guys are awesome - but a lot of the uniqueness is the post-Vai sound-processing that can maximize live harmonics, whammy bar virtuosity and tapping on an instrument that stays in tune throughout a song or, take (I mean Yngwe and Eddie, never had that!) and the 'adjusted'/modernized guitars are tailored to this style.
Music will never stand still, but anyone trying to playing an accurate version of an industrial scale Polyphia track on a 1960's Strat direct through an amp, or live on a Classical acoustic guitar is going to crash and burn. Not necessarily because they won't make the chops, but because the technique has a different technical background supporting it. This sound world is very different than ye olde analog multi-tracking!
that got me right in my impostor sydrom brain-part. i got some trouble learning both polyphia songs and the new metalcore language that i started enjoying a few years ago and felt like ABSOLUTE crap when i attempted to play something new.
guess what? i needed more therapy than guitar lessons. when i put playing some harder/modern songs as real goals i did it quite easily (WAY more than i could dream because of my head
i think this happens because of the internet thing and the amount of GIANTS we are exposed to daily when it comes to talent and even ppl who you don't know enough to see the amount of effort they put in their guitar playing (or even other hobbies/jobs
💯 I'm 51 and grew up playing maiden acdc priest etc. Plini polyhia are totally a new language. Spot on
I'd be interested to know if someone who has been playing Classical guitar for as long as you've been plying rock/metal would find it easier to play tracks by Polyphia.
I never thought about that but that’s actually a really great point!
They do. I think there's a classical guitar player here on RUclips that learned Polyphia. He said it's hard but not the hardest he ever learned. Jazz and classical players are simply on another level. That's why I as a classically trained guitar player want to learn jazz now.
Something funny that I’ve noticed is that polyphia sometimes can’t play their own songs. They’re amazing guitarist but even they mess up a bit live.
When I went go see them in august they played some of the new songs like playing god and neurotica live. And honestly it sounded kinda rough in some areas. However when they played their NLND stuff they were really good.
I remember watching older clips of them playing older songs like goat live and messing up really badly. So I guess it just takes time. They’re learning even better ways to learn their own songs.
Tbh, I haven’t really seen much of their live playing. I can’t imagine it’s an easy feat, not only playing the songs but remembering them!
I'll see them in may, hopefully they'll have it down by then :D
I know how you feel brother. Good insights though and kudos for not letting the negative thoughts beat you by thinking it through and realising it's just different.
Thanks. This actually is something I needed to watch. I have been playing bass for 13 years and sometimes I feel on top of the world, and other days I'm asking myself, "Why aren't I better?"
I can play quite a bit of stuff by Marcus miller which some people would consider hard, but when I tried to take a Crack at something like GOAT, which isn't entirely that complicated, I am falling flat. Granted I haven't taken a ton of time because my attention span has been short as to not be able to stay focused long enough to learn it.
I also think it has to do with when you're trying to play somebody else's music, it's not your own.
So no matter your skill level, ultimately only the writer will understand what they wrote fully. Because they're using whatever skill is comfortable for them as a basis to write their material.
I think this is also a factor on this topic.
That’s a great point. People write in THEIR style with THEIR strengths. It’s always gonna be a challenge for another player to play it the same!
@RobGalley I realized this when I was trying to play one of Victor Wootens solo pieces. I wanna make a video on the topic.
I've recently found your channel and I like your videos. Do you mind if I use part of a clip from this video for a topic in one of mine if I get around to it?
You made some great points.
Guitaring has become super interesting latley. I love this mixing and mashing of everything from techniques and genres. Excited to see where it leads us :3
I think you've really hit the nail on the head there man.
You should look at Tim's videos where he shows how he makes his songs. Essentially, he writes them on the computer and then reverse-engineer how to play something impossible back onto his real guitar.
You’re making sense mate and that’s why it’s hard teaching advanced or even intermediate players
Excellent video! Thanks for sharing your experience, I find it useful.
There is another way to tackle something like this. Part of the process of learning what any artist is doing is of course learning his music however that music we get from them is the result of a process involving various components.
Let’s say that you were trying to learn a Steve Vai solo. Maybe at first some of it might seem outside of your wheel house however if in addition to learning his solo you track down the artists and sources that influenced him you can see each element on its own, then the task does not seem as daunting.
For example with Vai a lot of his voicing knowledge comes from Ted Greene’s “Chord Chemistry”. He also went to school to Berklee which contributed to his sight reading and music theory knowledge however the perspective of set theory is coming from jazz view, in part because Berklee is a popular music conservatory but also because his teacher during his teenage years was Joe Satriani, a rocker whom in turn studied with jazz pianist Lenny Tristano at Five Towns College in Long Island, NY. While Satriani studied with a jazz player his approach employed modalism within a rock language. Add to the mix the influence of Hendrix tones experiments, Frank Zappa’s improvisations outside the conventional blue box, and even Van Halen himself whom became of reference for two handed techniques. When you go through these sources and look back at a solo by Vai it becomes easier to understand.
Henson employs use of drop 3 and drop 7th chords, in some instances substituting chord tones for extensions and even some parallel octaves into the style of Wes Montgomery. He employs some of the usual tapping resources we see with older rock guitarists. These are fairly similar common resources and can be learned.
Polyphia’s music is modular in nature, still riff driven in which an event happens 4 or 8 times followed by another event that floats around for a similar length.
I believe it feels somewhat unusual because in many ways it imitates the pacing of electronic music as in combining the gestures you would here lo-fi or even hip hop like track and condensing set elements into a single part guitar part. It reminds me how some musicians take Konnakol rhythmic singing and assign pitches to it and play it on a piano or a guitar. One is not use to seeing the instrument take such a rol which can be exciting as it is the case with Polyphia.
Henson and his band mates are certainly very creative and industrious however they move in side of a very specific wheel house of their own confection. When they step outside of set wheel house they are not as comfortable even with fundamental skills such as merely improvising over one chord as demonstrated in the jam they had with Steve Vai. The video is circulating in social media and they are quite lost in that sort of musical situation which is honestly something most of our freshman students already do with ease.
. I think they got a color that is unique and exciting, the timbres and how they get them are very creative but in the end they are part of the great man story our industry likes to push even though there aspects which are still behind compositionally speaking. Their pieces are technically intricate but it is rather a reformulation of old musical models. There is not that much use of counterpoint, there is hardly any use of post tonal harmony, no thematic development and the rhythmic vocabulary is subjected a linear language, certainly exciting in nature but not as innovative the use we have seen of polyrhythm, metric modulation and other resources.
I do believe they will continue to grow musically and do really well.
Innovation? I think it will happen but it has not happened yet, it is a term that is used too loosely. Innovation is Sergio Assad’s “Aquarella” or his arrangements of Piazolla’s music for solo guitar. Innovation is Alberto Ginastera’s Sonata for guitar, Allan Holdsworth’s “Sixteen men of tain”, Matteo Mancusso’s version of “Spain”, Paco de Lucia’s “Zyriab” or interpretation of the Aranjuez concerto, anything ever recorded by Victor Wooten, Tim Miller’s first two records, or any performance by Yamanu Acosta. Polyphia is good but is nowhere near the vicinity of Leo Brower’s “Black Decameron” or the microtonal experiments of Tolgahan Çogulu.
I think before we talk about innovation lets consider what has already been achieved in the guitar world and compare it to that.
As someone who falls into the category of younger kids learning polyphia treat this like singing along to a song on the radio, dont worry about knowing every detail perfectly, in fact if you try to youll sound worse, just try and recreate the general rhythm and feel of the song, simplify some stuff if you need to just focus on the flow of the music
Thank you so much for your humble and straight forward experience and opinion, and for sharing it. What I can perceive and understand personally, maybe wrong, is that now, as a beginner, if you don't think exclusively in learning Jimmy Page - Hendricks, Eric Clapton, evh etc, and give Poliphia or similar styles a shot, you can learn it as well, while learning the "traditional way", and what is really great about it is that while you try and learn, you will practice very technical, nuances, arpeggios, riffs, tapping, speed, fingering, base and high note phrasing, staccato, with it. Cheers.
I think this is a healthy way to look at it!
I would never go to my violin teacher that was classically-trained and played in orchestras his entire life and ask him to teach me how to be a great blue-grass fiddle player. That's why I always try to choose teachers that I want to play like. And of course we would never say Heifetz was a bad violinist just because he can't improv fiddle music well.
Great video and analysis! The only think I take any issue with is the "use it or lose it" part. I personally go months sometimes without playing ,and I don't seem to lose anything. Sometimes I even seem to get better while on hiatus. I can't be the only one like this, right?
I get bummed if I haven't had motivation to pick it up in +/- a week but the wait can reinvigorate me too. I feel more motivated and that goes a long way toward a productive practice session. Sounds like that might be the case for you too.
2:42 1000% accurate, music has evolved so much in a relatively short time
The timing of this video showing in my feed was perfect lol
I was learning how to play "G.O.A.T" today, and it felt like I was learning how to play the guitar again.
Must be a guitar teacher's worst nightmare the student asking to learn a Polyphia song, Good video!
Tim Henson is really a great player a lot of his riffs are originally written on another instrument then translated to guitar like in they're song playing god he said that he wrote the main riff on some weird Japanese electronic instrument i forgot what its called.
omnichord
Rob as a 66 year old bedroom guitarist Tim and Scott.y are as alien to me as Steve Vai was when i first heard Flexable Leftovers!
I may be wrong but I believe Tim creates the songs on guitar pro and uses it to learn the song. As I transcribe songs and compose myself, it is a powerful tool for really technical pieces.
Tossing in a comment for the algorithm. Thanks for the earnest and insightful video.
I’ve been playing for 10 years and I agree. Looking at the tabs you think it’s going to be a high pitch note but it ends up being lower pitched or vice versa
unlearning old way of playing is going to be the hardest part for a seasoned guitarist. I taught myself to play in the 90's around southern CA when hair rock and shredding was hot. Polyphia's is taking guitar playing forward and it's very exciting to me.
Super interesting video. I just started playing guitar around 7 months ago and the first song I learned was playing god. I practiced for over an hour every night for around three months just to play it semi-decently at three-quarter speed. After that, however, I feel like I've picked up so many of their other songs with ease. I think it probably helps that I'm 15 and I've never learned anything other than Polyphia, so I haven't had to relearn any techniques or styles.
I started out just like you, though perhaps a bit later, and i also had experience from drums and piano. For me it was goat, and then i saw playing god as "album 4 teaser" on Instagram, and i was so proud of learning it by ear. I digress, but it's great to see someone exactly where i was a couple of years ago. If you ever need a tip from someone who were where you are, and perhaps wanna get into the more conventional stuff, I'd be more than happy to help!!!
@@luryas626 That's super nice of you! If you could give some advice that would be greatly appreciated. Right now I'm learning the main melody from "the worst" and I'm having some trouble with the first chord which is 8797 on the middle four strings. it's meant to be played as a barre chord, but I can't get all the strings to sound without being fuzzy or muted.
That’s pretty much my point! But props to you for getting it down & putting the time in. Nice work!
Nice pic
@@TheFlamingChips thanks bro you too
@4:41 I really dig what you said! A lot of people see some amazing players and said "It's because he/she is talented." Or something like that. I mean, I do believe in talent. But IMO, dedication and consistency count more. No matter it's a musician, athlete, whatever the profession.
Improvise,adapt and overcome
So, in terms of how long I've been practicing guitar seriously, I have maybe 1 to 2 years of serious practice, and the thing about Polyphia and Tim Henson in particular is that, they may be the first band to make me realize that I could actually get good at guitar.
The reason for that is not something you touch in the video explicitly, but I can infer it from what you actually said about muscle memory, and it's the fact that instead of learning what we consider the basics, like strumming patterns, then chords, then scales, and then easy songs - although I HAVE done a bit of that too - I'm mostly first focusing on actual techniques. Polyphia and other guitarists today use a lot of things like harmonics, hybrid picking, etc.... and since I like how that sounds, I'm learning that too.
The idea that I have in mind is that once I have a good expertise, if not mastery, of these techniques, learning more elementary stuff will feel so much easier. It's basically the mentality of learning how to run before walking, I guess.
And the cool thing about that approach, to me at least, is that while it doesn't underestimate the sheer technical genius of Tim Henson, it also kind of demystifies his abilities, makes him a bit more relatable as a player which, in turn, feels to me is the most important aspect of a guitarist that can be seen as a role model or an inspiration.
tim is just next level, don't beat yourself up. As a beginner I would have no qualms taking lessons from you.
Man. I feel the same way. Been playing for 19 years and now I feel like I don't even know how to play guitar anymore.
in response to this imposter feeling someone told me: if your student surpasses you, THAT'S what you want as a teacher, as your skillset should not be to be better than everyone, but to help your students on the way to become the best they can. As I understand you have a skill to identify the problems and weaknesses and that's far more important than anything, you learned all the stuff around the playing and have experience, so your student doesn't have to learn all that by himself and concentrate on learning. And the most important skill is the self reflection and to be able to take a step back. loved the humble attitude and your take is very interesting, I grew up with such music developing into suff like polyphia and never even thought about it ❤
I agree, I've been playing for 23 years and I have owned 39 different guitars, I say this because I have no reason to play in a band. It's more of a fetish for sound and notes and melodies but I too have found it hard at times to learn some styles of music. I can relearn things much faster rate because my hand is already familiar but honestly I've grown from metal head into more of a finger picking classical player and now I find it very hard to alternate pick extremely fast because of it. The finger picking has become so natural for me that I almost prefer it with most things I play now and I use a pick maybe 25% of the time
Very well said Sir... I am a few months of 60 years old... (been playing 51 of those) and yeah ... these Guys are impressive!!! and no I will not Even try to figure this stuff out... I"ll let them take it !!
it took me about a year to learn Goose, partly because I'm terribly obsessive and wanted to get it PERFECT (which I still can't) and partly because I couldn't sit down every day but every other day or less than that. It's definitely challenging but very inspiring and educational to learn their songs. Also very humbling.
Definitely humbling!
I'd like to add to your assessment of why your student learned the song easier & made the same progress you did despite the years of experience you have over him.. I'm going to say one word.. inspiration.
It was his burning desire to Play a song from the brain of Tim Henson. Your inspiration is rooted in teaching what you student has asked you to teach him. It's your job it's your duty & if you want to keep your job you do your duty to the best of your ability. I remember wanting to play Dee by Randy Rhoades .. I worked & worked at that song I got it down but only pulled it off flawlessly what seemed to be a handful of times. Then ozzy released the live album with Brad Gillis playing all old Sabbath tunes. But there was the studio outtakes of Randy playing Dee. It assured me Randy was human.. Tim... im not so sure. I think there's circuitry & hydrolic fluid beneath that guy's skin... lol
He put the time in with Leplante.. which brings me to another point.. youre only as good as your competition. Surround yourself with people better than you.. reach for the seemingly impossible.. it's achievable how bad do you want it
I think something similar happened when all the classic rock players saw the 80s shred players. When something completely new comes along, it is like learning a new instrument
I do agree! When EVH burst on the scene with Eruption must have been an insane thing to witness as a guitar player at the time!
Until grunge washed them away…:) and that’s what I’m hoping for right now ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I'm 33 playing since I'm 13 and i feel the same way as you do, I find Polyphia amazing and would love to learn to play or imcorporate something similar in my playing but don't even know where to start, it looks alien to me
Literally the song playing god got me hooked on polyphia strictly on their creative use of a combination of picking techniques and plucking literally dumbfounded me! Then I found out that they did like melodic shred like 7 or 8 years ago with songs like 87, hourglass, and impulse, and I fell in love with the band!
I’ve been playing for 22 years, blues, classical, fingerstyle, and metal. I started learning Polyphia songs last year and at first it did feel a bit funny, but like all things you just have to do a lot of repetitions. It will feel just as natural as anything else you’ve learned.
Nail on the head - learning a new language
Fantastic video! In my case, when my students wanted to learn Polyphia I was thrilled! I thought to myself that I would have an excuse to level up my own playing.
However, each time said students would return to more traditional, free form metal/rock after a short period of time. The free form aspect of more traditonal metal spoke to them more than the orchestrated beast that is modern prog/metal.
I literally said "that's not that bad" when you showed the clip of you playing hahah
I appreciate it man hah
That use it or lose it quip is defining my playing nowadays, barely keeping my chops up and making zero gains 🤣
I think for the most part its a matter of peoples muscle-memory not know how to play in the way Polyphia write their songs/riffs. I'll try and explain, but it might get confusing. Polyphia, when they write a song they dont nessecarily start out by jamming out a few chords on a guitar, but the basically take beats and thanslate the notes to the cororsponding freths on the guitar to get the notes from the beat. This way, a simple little beat you come up with might require you to hit notes ALL OVER the freatboard, or maybe you gotta feks use harmonics to fill in for those notes you cannot get on a guitar for example. This method has actually been around for years, but since things quickly gets mad difficoult that way - people have just chosen not to. Their music is therefore structured quite differently and doesn't share alot of the same structure that most songs have, or that people learn. You know, normally when writing for guitar, everyone basically follow the typical same set of ''rules'' or chord-progressions ect. The reason for that is probably because it makes playing alot easier to play and write from way back when or something. Ya'll also probably already know that when we play guitar its actually our subconcious musclememory that's doing most of the playing. I bet that some of you more experienced players have at one point thought to yourselfs ''I have no idea how I just did that, my hands just played it'' and you can test this yourself the next time you're playing. Take a fast-ish solo, scale or lick you know and I want you to really focus on each and every note you're hitting. Like, really think about what you're doing as you're doing it and I bet that most of you are gonna notice that it gets much more difficoult to play at the same speed, or it might completely knock you off. That's because you just tried to play with your consious memory. And since many songs are structured in the same way, we often kinda do the same shit with minor differences when playing different songs. If you suddenly try to do something that's completely different and the ''system'' you've been following for years or decades suddenly doesn't apply - your musclememory doesn't know what the fuck to do. And then you gotta re-train your musclememory in order to play in these new and different ways. Someone who's been playing for may years could also struggle much more because their body is trying so hard to do what it's been doing for years/decades.
I AM 66. AND LOVEE POLIPHIA AND THERE NEW APPROCH TO MUSIC ON GUITAT..IT REMIND ME WHEN WE FIRST HEARD ERUPTION
IN 78.. WOW. SO MUCH ENTRTAINMENT AND ENJOYMENT.
CHECK OUT FRANK GAMBALA
I LIKE TO HEAR FRANK AND TIM JAM .BOTH HAVE UNIQUE STYLES.
OR BILLY STRINGS. ADVICE:
INBRACE YOUR STYLE ,DONT MESURE YOUR PLAYING AS GOOD OR BAD AGAINST ANOTHE ARTIST.
BE YOU
JUST BE AND ENJOY THE MUSIC YOU MAKE
MY FAVE GUITAR PLAYER FROM MY YOUTH IS ROBIN TROWER . MY FIRST GUITAR INFLUENCE. NOW TIM HAS GIVEN ME NEW IDEAS
LIGHT LOVE AND PEACE. TOZZ
I agree I’ve only played guitar for about 8 months but I can get the intros at least to a few songs of polyphias like goose but if I had to do blues I’d be clueless
Whenever one of my students wants to learn something that I don't know, I use it as an opportunity to show them how to teach yourself a new song or new technique. Since we are both learning it together, they get to see first hand how an experienced player goes about learning something new and challenging. So, the learning process becomes the lesson, rather than the song. Polyphia would be a tough one though...as you say, it's a whole school of techniques that will take singular dedication to master.
In a recent video, I saw the back of the neck of Tim's original THBB10. I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be satin, but it was polished, by his hands. I'm pretty sure the number of hours that guy practices is unreal.
Very well said
same sentiments here
I think you need to relax when it comes to learning new songs. If you listen to a song 1 time a day for 10 days you will remember it but if you listen to it 10 times a day fir 10 days your mind will subconsciously connect your ear memory from listening to your hands because music is not just training hands and muscle memory. Its connecting pitch, timing, and emotion then translating it through your hands. So keep listening to the song while learning the notes and at some point it will all connect and flow without thinking.
Also its worth mentioning that tim composes with arpeggiators and randomizers and such and then learns the parts on guitar so some parts are not always gonna be logical enough to be remembered.
Just stumbled on this video and I wanted to give my two cents in a broader perspective.
Don't forget that age plays a very major role in learning. It's not just about the context (like you said with your french example), but younger brains learn and adapt at an incredible speed compared to older brains and we just can't catch up. I still remember how easy it was for me to pick up and learn stuff when I was a teen, now it's hard even to get interested in new things. We built our frameworks time ago and that's it, be it guitar, relationships and whatnot, and we kinda have to hope they remain relevant throughout the years :D
At the end of the day it doesn't matter if we cannot play songs that use new frameworks, it's not about ourselves really and we can't fight biology. All that matters is to help younger people develop their own way of doing things by trying to get close to their frameworks and help them with that, such is the essence of teaching. We've got the experience and knowledge, they've got the potential. One day they will do the same with other younger people and that's how we get better as society and as human race. It's true that old dogs can't learn new tricks, but they can still put up some damn good show with the stuff they already know that will inspire others to build new things. There's no point in comparing ourselves with the new stuff, that's not where we are supposed to play our game. There's no doubt that we are good at what we do, we just need to use it in a slightly different way and with a different goal.
Some great words! Probably being a bit hard on myself but the social media world doesn’t help with a bit of a desire to ‘keep up’! But, we can only do our best & give ourselves a break! As long as we’re enjoying the journey that is playing guitar!
Old dogs CAN learn new tricks. It just takes longer and much more dedication. And if you kept always learning new things throughout your life exactly to avoid getting stuck then you won't at least have such a hard time learning the new stuff. I don't like Polyphia but I always learned new things for the technical aspects. It will help you to not stagnate in your playing.
So true what you said. But there are few artists who have been influenced by the greatest of their time and then
they developed their own sound. Take Textures for example. One can clearly hear the old school thrash and death metal sounds as their influences. But combining them and making it their own, it still sounds futuristic and ahead of their time from most of the progressive metal bands these days.
Exactly how I feel coming from a classical guitar background and then trying to play something like Chet Atkins with a thumb pick and muting
I also thought this was new music. I’m new to them…and love them…but I choose to feel the vibe of what they are doing and pick off anything I might find useful for my own style. After all, they already exist. No need to copy them, unless you just want to. But I do now look at music, and my music differently…and for that I’m ultra thankful for discovering them. Great post by you though.
Really appreciate it! They’ve definitely earned their place. I’m not going to say I won’t ever try to learn anything by them again in future!
👏 very profound.