Bertrand Russell on Ludwig Wittgenstein
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- Опубликовано: 15 окт 2024
- Bertrand Russell on Ludwig Wittgenstein. The clip came from an episode of the BBC Radio 4 show "Great Lives", The whole show is still available online here:
www.bbc.co.uk/p...
The sentence was: "My name is Ludwig and I am scared of heights"
@@dv8566 good one
@@dv8566 Rubbish. If the ledge is low they are not afraid. So they are scared of heights.
@@dv8566 Im scared of heights
People are afraid of falling, and by extension of serious injury or of death such that their enjoyment be curtailed.
Heights don't scare me, however, widths do
I think; and I say this as someone who never had one - It must certainly be among the most beautiful gifts to the fate of a man, to have a mentor.
I yearn for one.
Indeed it is, only ppl with immense potential who hadnt had a mentor can know the value of such
I have been mysteriously lucky, 000000AEA000000
I had several mentors and I would say you probably overestimate the importance of mentorship. Community (i.e. people at more or less the same level and striving for more or less the same thing) is much more important.
@@AntonMochalin I have had both and found them useful. My best work has always occurred sitting around a table with people I respect. It generates creativity.
"He brought me the fulfillment of this suggestion". That's one hell of a way to say it lol.
Yeah, it seems me to there are more economical ways to say this.
Philosophers are not renowned for being those persons most likely to express themselves with the greatest possible economy. In fact some seem determined to employ the least possible economy they can manage with regard to their manner of putting forth that upon which they have chosen to express themselves, whatsoever it be, whether in the form of writing or, the form of speech, as the case may be. Put plainly, the locutions, formal or informal, of that class of persons, can, and indeed commonly do, lack economy of expression to a high degree.
@@Schizopantheist lol I see what you did there.
I think for modern philosophers, it's different: clarity and conciseness is something they care about. That's elegance to me. I took a philosophy class recently and the difference between how say Descartes and Nozick Express themselves is clear. Contemporary philosophers tend to write more elegantly I think.
@@MrSidney9 Yes, I agree. Although it depends on the writer, and in what is called 'continental philosophy' even some modern writers do this kind of thing.
@@Schizopantheist russel is not that bad tho. at least you can read him and not go insane like with hegel
The sentence was: "Repeat with me: 'You must not become an aeronaut'".
I was just wondering what the one sentence was, Thomas Bullemore. :)
I imagine Wittgenstein in an austere Cambridge lecture room writing on the blackboard 100 times: "I will not become an aeronaut" like Bart Simpson while Russell is watching.
Do you? What an imagination you have.
That was funny.
I feel like a movie on Russell and Wittgenstein's relationship could be really interesting
There is a weird movie about Wittgenstein, "Wittgenstein", in which Russel is also portraited.
It's a niche audience and a dusty, can almost smell the chalkboards, aesthetic as far as films go: for people who loved Dead Poets Society and A Beautiful Mind...
@@eben3357 neither of those films are for niche audiences lol
@@activeone Correct, but the first part of the comment is a response to the weird film about Wittgenstein which is niche. Context...
There is a play about that called “Ludwig and Bertie”
Given Russell's ambivalence toward Wittgenstein and the fact that at the time of the interview Russell was a survior of a deadly airplane crash, one can't help but detect a note or two of irony in this anecdote.
Yes, it almost makes more sense that Russell realized Wittgenstein was an idiot and wanted to prevent him from becoming a shoddy areo engineer. There’s always room for another shoddy philosopher, he must have thought.
Erik Olivecrona Given Russell’s fixation on logical positivism as the supposed solution to all future philosophical problems, he was at least a subject matter expert.
Oslo Norway 1948
@@isaacolivecrona6114 exactly.
If he survived it, in what sense was it deadly ?
Wittgenstein got the best of both worlds by making the Tractatus read like a checklist.
Lol
more like a "Twitter thread" as one would have said at a certain point in time
I wish we knew what that sentence was....
Ludwig always started strong. In one book, he began with, "What is the meaning of a word?" A great way to zero in on an issue in the philosophy of language without clutter any preamble..
In another, he began with something like this: "No proposition stands in need of any analysis by us to be understood if its meaning is clear regardless of what signs were used." [From memory; I don't have the book here; I saw it in a library once.]
I've been thinking about it since I was 14. Now I'm 17 and I think I'm becoming like Wittgenstein.....
@@ЭлиягуШатаво OK, I hope you like Norway like he did...
Reading Bertand Russel and Ludwig Wittgenstein gave me a view of real genius. My Dunning Kruger syndrome was devastated.
The problem with Dunning Kruger--and I say this from personal experience much like yours--is that it's a very comfortable disease to have, and a terribly painful cure.
😢
I'm trying to deal with mine.
Actually they would also be subject to the effect as soon as they did something they were not experienced in.
They probably overestimated their ability to bake a cake. The effect is not about intelligence, but about estimating or underestimating your ability to do something. And Dunning Kruger proved that humans are not good at it.
"I have calculated that we can move the engines forward without redesigning the whole plane; it's called MCAS."
...
"No! You must NOT become an aeronaut!"
Brilliant 😂
Genius
is there a good video on that boeing stuff?
And yet, if I had a personal letter from Bertrand Russell declaring me to be a complete idiot, I would frame it.
The clip came from an episode of the BBC Radio 4 show "Great Lives", The whole show is still available online. I have put the link in the video description above
Russel liked a good story above the truth at the end of his life. Well, I am glad he did. The stories are rather good.
"The world is all that is the case."
The world is all that is in my case.
But what in the case of the otherworldly?
@@andersaskjrgensen5468 Of what we cannot speak, we must be silent.
Bertrand stealthily giving the finger to the ceiling
Why? To plagiarise a YT comment, “Are you still hanging monkeys up there?”
I think Ludwig Wittgenstein would reply, "I don't shit in my hat."
I love this little story.
Whatever Russell instructs you to do, you do it!
I am bewildered by the many comments suggesting that Russell could not make up his mind whether W. was a genius or idiot...I think you missed the point of the story
There's lots of people needing this kind of nurturing these days. Please come back, Dr. Russell.
He would likely start by pointing out that "people" is plural, and thus the proper verb form is "are," not "is," as in, "There are lots of people..."
Neil Sims You really addressed the point I was making.
@@jakecostanza802 By nurturing your intellectual growth? You're welcome.
Neil Sims I usually have to pay for things like that. Is that your only service?
Russell was not a doctor.
This is actually Paul Whitehouse doing a Bertrand Russell impression
Bertrand Russell’s been dead for, what... 40, 45 yeaaaars?
😂😂
omg thank you for helping me realize where do I recognize this voice from!
No, it’s Jonathan Miller doing a Bertrand Russell impression.
love it!!
He was a very tolerant person, and even campaigned for the decriminalisation of homosexuality. He was very ahead of his time for a Victorian.
Big mistake, and so wrong!
@@jameslast7559 why?
He was calling him weird not gay
Wittgenstein was apparently bisexual, as it happens, but obviously when Russell calls him “queer”, he means “odd”, not “homosexual”. You’d have to be pretty thick to think otherwise. Only the early part of Russell’s years were spent under Queen Victoria’s rule. She was not occupying the throne during the last sixty-nine years of Russell’s life-most of it by far. She had not occupied the throne for an entire decade by the time Wittgenstein, as a young man, first met Bertrand Russell.
@@antufcti I was speaking generally, chill out man
Zakee's right, bro. Wittgenstein was hardcore. And so is Russell, even though I'm more inclined to argue solely for Wittgenstein. But yeah, Wittgenstein would tear you to shreds as he continually persisted in ceaseless argumentation, being harsh, irate and loud.
dude, it's Bertrand fucking Russell...
TRUE DAT
nah, it probably was "the world is all that is the case, and the case is what we take as being so through our understanding of how things are in the world we, ultimately, take for granted as being the result of all cases".
idiocy and philosophy do not exclude each other, on the contrary, they are dependent on each other like the absence of thought and thought or if you will neuronal inactivity and activity
Wow, less than a minute on Wittgenstein? Pretty concise....
But was Russell's conclusion sound?
its an obligation to listen to this a couple times a year
Bertrand Russell is real life Dumbledore.
Does that make Ludwig a real life Tom Riddle?
And that is how Bertrand Russell prevented 9/11. But 9/11 was inevitable so it was only moved to a later date.
This is philosophy, not Terminator.
Surely there are more recordings of Russel Wittgenstein and their contemporaries talking about them?
The sentence was "Dick Laurent is dead".
What was that sentence?
No one knows. I wish we did.
But Wittgenstein always started fast, with no boring preambles.
Look at the first sentence of The Blue Book or Philosophical Grammar, for clue to what Russell read.
"Dear Mr. Russell,
Logic is still in the melting pot, but one thing becomes more and more obvious to me; the propositions of logic contain only apparent variables and whatever may turn out to be the proper explanation of apparent variables, its consequence must be that there are no logical constants - logic must turn out to be a totally different kind than any other science."
Means end's song "Aeronaut" brought me here
Why don't we have a footage of Luwid Wittgenstein?
Well, Wittgenstein had the potential of beeing a member of one of the richest Austrian families back then... I still admire his work...
he didn't have the potential - he WAS a member of one of the richer families. He gave up his fortune.
What does it matter
didnt like three of his siblings commit suicide
Do you know anything about the families history… their ancestral home no longer exists. He renounced the wealth of the family, it was a conscious choice
For all the people wondering, the sentence was: "Epstein hat sich nicht umgebracht"
Und dessen sollst de geweist sein 😉
@@wallacecleaver4485 muh dick
Worst meme of the millennia
@@mrunseen3797 Correct.
"He was queer"
Yes.
heeey i need the full story
I like the inherent comedy in his character.
Very few people also realize (And this is very much based on my opinion/interpretation of his early works) his past believes on contributing to a world in which all scientific achievement had to be trumped in a manner congruent with a more substantial peaceful world order, one in which equality was not a necessity, as he believed, some people had to regress to simple farmers of ages past, even if this meant an initial world revolution involving atomic explosives - all while others, would remain in power, his own anglo-saxon and generally European order of course. A very British Idea that their empire had already succeeded as the ultimate world power, and highest form of civilization, and all left to do was to manage the rest of the world from then onwards. Russel would often talk of these ancient men that seemed to have belonged to this idealized old world, and eventually come to describe them, as outdated, and out of touch, a critique on himself in my opinion. A very satirizing and humorous way to say "Well, that might have been the case before, but not so anymore" as for the very least, he was always open to admit and to himself foremost, than one had to be always so full of doubt, and generally speaking, reject orthodoxy - and that this had to be a strength rather than a weakness in intellectual contemplations overall.
This powerful elite, so involved on activism and geo-politics, directly and indirectly, a sound intellectual, is a figure I wished was portrayed more humanely in media. His kind being the one saying things like "Well I could very much suggest you to proceed with your suppression of the strike, as the results, very much guaranteed in your favor, will settle what you observe as your current issues - as for the violet suppression of the strike, I do not very much like it, and you must be warned about the long term repercussions of the exploited revolting´s resilience" then he takes a sip of his south American drink, smokes his pipe, and proceeds to return to England, as if had just not witnessed a massacre on paper about to be perpetrated the very next day - and due to his classified role, comments of such never to be made in his next morning tabaco pipe brunch at his next club meting. The inherent comedy of great characters, which I personally consider brokers of global events, as they green-light their respective deliverances through their consulting guidance bestowed upon them by the well stablished power networks they belong too, in this case, Bertrand Russel being a member of the British empire, and acting out his duty and convictions as he went along in his life and career.
What a waste of pixels
Interesting take
What was the one sentense?
Russell opened Wittgenstein's manuscript at random and pointed to a sentence. That was the sentence.
Could you tell me what Wittgenstein should become if Rusell says him he's an idiot ?Thanks.
+lionel ODDO Wittgenstein says he would have become an aeornaut if Russell had thought he was an idiot
Merci!
lionel ODDO
aeronaut: one who flies balloons or airships/derringers/blimps
Crysus Bu influential 20th century philosopher or blimp driver? toss up.
Crysus Bu I don't think it's meant to be degrading to aeronauts. perhaps he actually had an interest in flying, or he used that as an example just because of the aesthetic beauty of the word. I don't think when he said complete idiot he meant mentally retarded, just idiotic when it comes to philosophy, he is studying under Russel so he knows he is not a wood plank.
Fascinating ...
Russell was one badass xD
Maybe the best thing Russell ever did was keep Wittgenstein going
WHAT WAS THE SENTENCE!?!?!
probably 'once upon a time...' or his name/add
"My finger smells wierd" Ludwig Wittgenstein
"I like big butts, and I cannot lie."
The paper is lost. You will never know.
az0r22 That was really profound, bro.
Wittgenstein was not thinking of becoming a pilot but an aeronautical engineer.
All problems of philosophy are problems of language. Or something to that effect, was the first sentence Berty was referring to. I know of this through a lucid dream.
lmao you fucking what
lmao you fucking what
lmao you fucking what
I would love to see that one sentence of Wittgenstein's which convinced Russell.
+NlHILIST probably this: The world is all that is the case.
+fsabouni the opening sentence of tracticus logico-philosophicus. Brilliant
fsabouni that seems pretty plain and unprofound. I think a better candidate would be a less obvious but vastly important proposition from early in the Tractatus:
"The world is the totality of facts, not of things."
TucoChannel I bet you're way smarter bro
TucoChannel So says the idiot.
Is this essay of Ludwig's anywhere to be found?
Not an essay but rather a fulfillment of the suggestion 😉
Any in mind?
It was "Since the Dawn of Time..."
What was that sentence ???
Probably not the sentence itself was impressive but the philosophical/mathematical problem that he decided to write about and the way he started to analyse it, which I guess kept Russell interested. Read anything of Wittgenstein and you can see that he try to solve a problem without any unnecessary ornaments.
"A mathematician named Godel will prove both of us horribly wrong in the early 30's and doom philosophy as we know it, but I will change my views accordingly."
Not really
If anything, Gödel proved that Wittgenstein was on the right track (even if Wittgenstein concluded that his own work contained errors). And Gödel's work was based in no small part on Russell's work.
He proved Frege wrong though.
Wittgenstein was a genius. Greater than Russell, Plato, Nietzsche and Hume. He was simply genius.
Russell wrote a lot about aeronautica himself. So, Wittgenstein's choice to become a philosopher wasn't as straightforward as Russell present it. Perhaps the aeronautica could've gained more if he wants so eccentric than the Philosophy's gain from his eccentricity.
It is interesting that there is a lot of talk about the guy, but not much, if any, really, about what he said.
Well what was the sentence?
Like Einstein, Bertie is always shown as an old man. Though he did his real work as a young man. But Wittgenstein is never shown as an old man. Odd that.
Witt. never made it to old age.
Perhaps because photos weren't invented when Russell was young.
@@firstal3799 Russel was born in 1877. Photography was invented in the 1830s and was in wide use by the 1860s. See Matthew Brady's photos of Lincoln or the American Civil War (1860s) and Lewis Carrol's photos of Alice Liddell (probably also 1860s) for examples.
Maybe because there are more pictures which were taken in his latter years than in his middle years.
And the photo of wittgenstein we often see was taken in 1929, and at that time he was 40years old-plus, he died at 62.- It's not really young image compared to the age of his death.
His(in this, I mean wittgenstein) picture you have in mind that you think it's not an old image is the first picture of Wikipedia in English about wittgenstein, right?
Aeronaut ... a more accurate term than pilot (originally a nautical term) ... but what else from LW would suffice ... :)
He meant to become an aeronautical engineer.
A nautical pilot is a very different thing from an aeronautical pilot. One of those imprecisions of language that serve to confuse. A pet peeve of Wittgenstein.
Dyson thought Wittgenstein was a complete charlatan after having coffee in his room in Cambridge.
all the proposed "only one sentence" examples don't really do anything for me. am i an idiot or should i become an aeronaut? if i'm an idiot i should become a philosopher.
And in a parallel universe, Wittgenstein becomes an aeronautical engineer, meets Frank Wittle, and the British have jet fighters in service before the Battle of Britain.
Wasn't Wittgenstein Austrian? In that parallel universe, Edward VIII would have swayed his government, and Phillip von Battenberg would have remained on active duty, as part of the London-Berlin axis.
Aeronauts will be happy 😊
I read about that
After this decision he donated his fortune and died poor.
I saw a doco that said they had a falling out of sorts or at least Bertrand Russell disagreed with Wittgenstein later.
Philosophy is made up of disagreement.
The reason they fell out later in life is that when Wittgenstein wrote Tractatus, he was defending a form of logical atomism, which Bertrand Russell agreed with. Later, Wittgenstein in Philosophical Investigations turned more toward logical behaviorism and departed from Russell's foundationalism.
@@sebastianbyrum338 Cheers. My education is not enough to know what these things are. I’ll have to study. 🙂👍🏻
@@benbunyip Me too, lol. While I know what those are, my knowledge is still rudimentary. Cheers to you too, my friend! :)
As I recall Russell wrote the introduction to the Tractatus. It was pretty clear from his comments that he didn't really get it.
Oh, I'm sure you would. Can't wait for you to write the most influential work of the XXI Century.
First line: "He was queer."
😂😂😂
Anyone who claims Bertrand Russell wasn’t also Professor Yaffle from Bagpuss need to get their head looked at 😂
''This sentence is false''.
I saw what you did there. Very clever.
aeronaut?
Aeronautical engineer.
We lost a magnificent engineer, then.
Or WWI fodder.
@@nathanielhellerstein5871 He would never ended up like that as he was surely treated like a billionares son - even of writings tell otherwise.
The swirled is all within the chase
All of the above is rarely used when "or both" works. Also: It's BERTRAND RUSSEL.
You have three errors of grammar and punctuation in your comment.
What is the source of this audio clip? I want to use this quote and need a bibliographical reference.
He probably regrets saying that now
The problem with philosophy is that it needs to be understood by children, which is the only time many people question existence.
Wittgenstein is easily the most important philosopher of the 20th century. We're still catching up to him.
You are joking, right?
The sentence was: The world is everything that is the case. One could argue that it might have been: "Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent.", but this was the early Wittgenstein and the latter sentence points more towards his amazing posthumously publicized language game theory.
Trapped him into a dichotomy.. ejj ejj
"He was queer", oh, Bertie, you have *no* idea...
철학과가 아니면 공사에 가겠다던 고딩시절 남동생 투정의 원인을 오늘에야 알게 되엇다.. 그 때 못 알아들어서 미안.
I feel like younger folk stumbling across this might need some clarification - while Ludwig Wittgenstein WAS gay, when Russell calls him 'queer' it's in the old-fashioned sense where it just means 'peculiar' or 'odd', he's not referencing his sexuality.
Ludwig was, however, not gay in the original meaning of the word.
“Young people” or obtuse people?
@@ximono You mean “cheerful”? Witgenstein might have pointed out that the two senses bear a family relation. “Gay” meaning homosexual was strictly pejorative before 1970 or so because it had come to mean “homosexual” through its earlier and broader meaning, “wanton”-it was widely assumed that male homosexuals were promiscuous. In the early twentieth century brothels frequented only by heterosexuals were often called “gay houses”. The idea is that the wanton are carefree and unfettered.
Dear Madam..
"The world is everything that is the case." (First phrase in his book Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus)
a) im quite sure his books were not yet out and b) because reading wittgenstein is not something you can pass judgement on a moment after reading. It is dense, abstract and, at the time, if it was true, would have ground breaking implications in the field of philosophy and perhaps elsewhere in the realm of linguistics, mathematics, philosophy etc.
Of course Russell also said if he were a young man again he would become a physicist instead of a philosopher. Or a politician or aeronaut etc
0:08
the middle.
it's always the middle.
It never is. It is always an extreme, but it is difficult to tell which extreme. Or if anything under consideration is extreme enough to even qualify.
Besides, between "either" and "or not", tertium non datur.
Besides, between "either" and "or not", tertium non datur.
"I just pooped my pants"
If only Ayn Rand had approached Betrand Russell with the same question.
Excellent.
If only Bertrand Russell told him to become an aeronaut
The sentence was, "As I am neither the front end nor the back end of an idiot, I must be no end of an idiot."
All the people in the comments should become aeronauts.
Ливанов?
"he was queer" good gaydar
Interesting. I wonder how his impression on that person changed the course of things?