Joshua Haymes: "Postmil Destroyed My Church Plant", Postmillennialism and Missions, Church Planting
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- Pastor Joshua Haymes and Dr Josh Howard discuss missions and eschatology, Postmillennialisms affect on missions, Church planting, qualified elders and more
This is a great encouragement to me as a lonely Postmillennial in an SBC church. You guys keep up the good work, and may the harvest be plentiful.
#100fold
Excellent discussion!
As a rather recent new-comer to the postmil eschatology, I have to agree that having a better understanding of the times to come with the knowledge that our Savior’s Gospel is the “Sword” with which he persuades sinners and that the outcome is guaranteed to bring Him glory, and that the gloriousness doesn’t stop at soul winning but that it goes far deeper and beyond, is so encouraging that it has changed the meaning of the word ‘hope’ for me!
Thank you for the conversation!
"I struggled with imposter syndrome, maybe because I hadn't been affirmed as being qualified" - i resonate with this, and is part of what has led me away from Baptist ecclesiology where there is no concept of accountability much less ordination.
Man the reformed people are everywhere!
The Merch is everywhere too!
He must reign!
He does reign!
The idea of crafting a family creat and putting it on family worship materials is beautiful
*crest
I am a 'convert' from dispensational premillennialism. I clicked on this video expecting pushback to the post-mil position I've adopted in hopes to learn the weak points. Didn't work out, but enjoyed the discussion!
So if places like LA are gonna have to wait to be retaken generations later, there’s still gotta be at least some of us over here holding it down until that deliverance takes place!
Not everyone can fight by flight. Some of us have all our peoples here. But it makes sense in the case of churches like brother Haymes’ where it’s just mostly single childless urban dwelling transplants from elsewhere to maybe disband their church plant.
But there’s a lot of immigrant churches here in LA, like my church which was founded by and is still mostly made up of latinamerican immigrants and their children and grandchildren.
Conservative values from the original homelands has slowed the liberalization of our churches, but that doesn’t mean that we are untouched by the secular culture around us. Many of the 2nd and 3rd generation have abandoned the faith. Or even if they haven’t, there’s other signs, like less marriages and smaller families.
But there’s still hope. Among some Gen Z’ers (in my church at least) there’s this newfound interest, post-covid, in getting back to the basics of the reformed faith. (We’re Latino though so we’re gonna always have a charismatic flavor! Haha)
It’ll be interesting to see how it all plays out
(My church btw is a relatively conservative church in the more liberal American Baptist denomination)
1:06 MISSISSIPPI MENTIONED LETS GOOOOOOOO
The previous generation church (my generation of 50-60’s) did not adequately disciple their people. Personal growth has come from numerous outside sources-praise God! But sadly not from a long established one. I believe this why we see such compromise and Biblical illiteracy today.
So amen to what y’all discussed!
This was a great interview! I met Joshua through X after seeing him fruitlessly engage Ministry Misfits (which I had done previously)… it’s cool to see him in more of a long-form discussion!
If the world is winnable
LA is winnable
i'm raised reformed, kinda backslided and come at a point that i see the value of proper theology and living faith. Indeed pre-mill seems to be correct only if u don't look at all facts and use logical reasoning.
34:56 To be fair to my solid brothers who I disagree with, I think some would respond/view the “counting the cost” comment particularly (because when you use that language I think it’s easy for a critic to say, “see, you just don’t want to sacrifice”) or any sort of “strategy” that isn’t found directly in a verse as a pragmatic approach that isn’t trusting the power of God to accomplish his ends. Their view of a “pessimistic” history lends to this because they don’t actually think we’re going to win, so it’s a question for them of whether we are going to be faithful and martyrs or use “pragmatic, human strategies” to try to bring about a victory they implicitly think is impossible.
It also comes from a right view of God’s sovereignty in turning all things for the good of those who love him, but they essentially see that as the only victory that’s to be won. So really the scoreboard everyone can see doesn’t matter (the one in this material world) because they would view all things as a victory, whether we’re beheaded or baptizing
Edit: pastor Josh brings this up later in the episode
It seems like Joshua's church plant was a part of the Acts 29 network. I was once a part of one of their churchs and I agree, most of the elders were under-qualified. There was a huge void in doctrine which led to much confusion.
I remember seeing this and all the backlash on twitter😂😂 i got a good kick out of it
26:43 “A donut shop is not a church.” Thanks for clarifying that for me. Seriously, it is great to hear of Joshua’s journey to postmillenialism. The road inexorably leads to Ultimate Reconciliation.
The best way to not have your Eschatology destroyed is not to have one.
No no, panmillenial is not the way!
The bible is a narrative from Genesis to Revelation.
It's a story playing out in real time, and we are in it!
Eschatology gives context to what came before, and what is coming tomorrow. It's so worth it when you look at it like that!
We highly recommend checking out our kids series. It's geared towards kids, but so helpful for all ages!
@@eschatology_matters I'm not saying be Pan millennial, I'm saying be agmillenial and aschatalogical. It really doesn't matter, it's not really our business, and it's not, as Christians what we should be obsessing about. Like Jesus says, we got enough worries everyday as it is. Jesus told us not to speculate about the End. It's a waste of our Christian Energy (or the energy the spirit gives us). Although I grant you, its a whole lot of fun and folk can earn a lot of money and celebrity (or notoriety) from books and the lecture circuit.
@@eschatology_matters Eschatology for kids??? 😱 Ifanschatology??? I am appalled.
@@eschatology_matters James 4:14.
Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away.
Post Mils: We have a optimistic, winning attitude! Everyone else is defeatist!
Also Post Mils: Yeah, we knew our church plant never had any long term viability. This city is lost.
Did you listen to the interview or no?
@@sarahd5341 Of course. He explains the "fight by flight" strategy.
I’m only 10 minutes in and I was wondering if he was still in LA, but I guess you just answered my question! Haha
Regardless of anyone’s view on his position; respectfully, your comment is made out of context.
We need to stop using the word layman. I don’t believe the church was ever prescribed that word.
This comment jumped out at me for some reason and I’d like to hear a fuller argument as to why you say this. We use lots of words that weren’t “prescribed” for us (e.g. Trinity). What is specifically wrong with “layman”? At face value it seems like a useful and clear term.
I’m thinking the term layman is an accurate and reasonable term that can be used to differentiate between deacons/elders and those who are not.
We are all Brothers and Sisters on one level, but those who do not fit into the category of leadership are satisfactorily categorized as lay people, in my opinion. Perhaps there is a better term. Maybe someone else has an idea.
How about referring to all Christians as believers, and then the decons and the elders, and others as such.
Use Bible terms, ok?