Was The Canadair Sabre The Best Sabre?
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
- Canada built over 1,800 Sabres under license from North American Aviation, becoming very expert in the type. Sufficiently so that later marks of Canadian Sabres were fitted with more powerful Orenda engines and other refinements. This video investigates the history of the Canadian Sabres and asks whether they were, in fact, the best of the breed.
Sources:
By far the best single volume on the Canadian Sabre is "The Canadair Sabre" by Milberry. Long out of print, it commands a high price on the used market but is well worth it
Far less detailed, but also interesting for its pictures is "Aircam Aviation Series No. 20: Canadair Sabre Mk.1-6; Commonwealth Sabre Mk.30-32 In RCAF, RAAF, SAAF, Luftwaffe & Foreign Service" by Joos and Ward. It also has the longest title of any book in my collection!
Otherwise sources are shared with my main Sabre video
I'm starting to suspect all Sabres are, in fact, the best Sabres.
Except the Super Saber, of course!
I know a few cutlasses that might disagree. 😬
My Saber is best Saber
@@thestarlightalchemist7333 Doesn't beat MY light saber, though!
What if the real best Sabres are the friends they made along the way?
very fitting for 100th anniversary of RCAF! great video as always
I'm Australian so obvi the CAC variant. But jingoism aside, the RCAF fleet dwarfed ours and during the early 50s those Canadian aviators were genuinely the spear tip, and for a long while, numbers and experience count for a fair bit. So I'll be reasonable and call it even 😊. Thanks for the content.
I'd actually go with theCAC; that might be from playing SPI's air war in the 1970's; I doubt any sabre could have a better than 50% chance of surviving a single Aden shell hit. Plus if you are going to consider ground attack then the 30mm wins outright, You just failed to build 1000 of them.
I like the CAC Sabre because it carries those massive ADEN Cannons lol
I prefer the CAC version, but I'm also biased. 😆
The CAC Sabre had the RR Avon engine and those Adens. Unbeatable for mine
Shame we went from the tip of the spear to the butt of the joke these days 🥲
'I'm going to include the Hog because I like it and I can.' Tough to argue with that.
Money quote 😎
Is that the F-100?
@@glennredwine289 sabre hog, he has a video on it. Basically an up engined nuclear strike fighter.
@@glennredwine289 F-86H; 'Sabre Hog'
The humor is so dry and, well, British. I love it 😂
I used to go out on Friday nights. Now I just sit at home waiting for a new video from this channel to drop.
Me 2😂
I hope it’s your own home.
hear hear
have you tried masturbation ?
My father flew these in Europe. 430 squadron 2 Wing. His favorite aircraft. The Canadians cleaned up on all the NATO gunnery contests and the MK 6 was feared by most NATO pilots in dog fights. I was a great time to be a Canadian fighter pilot.
It used the CANADIAN MADE Orenda engine that was able to consistently break the sound barrier in a dive. That engine was far more powerful than what the Americans had in their Sabres.
Given the Canadian Orenda and the Australian Neme versions... America should have never bothered with the super sabre
As an 11 yr old boy in 1959, I saw the RCAF Golden Hawks fly directly over my head. It was my first experience with the sight and sounds of jet fighters up so close, I thought I could reach out and touch them. July 1st, or Dominion Day, as we used to call it was clear and sunny in Kelowna, British Columbia. The Golden Hawks flew down Okanogan Lake from the north, then made a left turn to fly across Okanogan Lake and straight down Bernard Avenue. Their gleaming gold wings and fuselage made a striking image as they flew over our heads at what seemed like a mere 50 feet about ground level. I remember ducking down beside my mother as the screaming jet engines nearly broke our eardrums. Oh, one more point. We were standing on the roof of a two story building when the CL-13 Hawks flew by. WHAT A MAGNIFICENT SIGHT !! 😅
Hi! I was 8 years old in ke.owna when this happened. However on that same day, Iwas on the top row of the old aquatic grandstand looking down the lake watching them approach and when they passed directly over my head heading down Bernard avenue, they broke the sound barrier and shattered many of the storefront windows. As a young lad I had never heard such a noise and I fell backwards down a few rows on the grandstand quite terrified . I will never forget it!!
A good friend of my parents, B. R. Campbell, flew in the Golden Hawks although not until the 1960 season. He *loved* the Sabre, with the CF-104 a close second.
"The F-100 had to remain uncrashed long enough to be useful..." this is the aerial equivalent of Drachism of the Day. We need a name for it on this channel...
A Pound of knowledge?
A Kilo of knowledge?
A poundissim?
Our daily pound of wisdom?
A Pound of wisdom?
A wizzie?
Idk lol
"The Vampire was clearly obstolete by 1949"
So crazy to think that aircraft were obsoletes after 4 years.
It's worse when you factor in that it was that way throughout the 30s until about the 60s.
We're just used to the idea that WWII presumably accelerated design development, but if anything, it slowed it down to allow for mass production of many late 30s aircraft.
There was still wartime development speed.
1935-1950 or so is a ludicrously transformative period in aviation.
Innovation in military aircraft took a nose dive after about 1970. They got incrementally better, to be sure, but many of the best airframes now in service are based in fairly old designs (obviously the avionics have massively improved).
@@Justanotherconsumer the avionics are the problem. By the 80s aircraft development was becoming too much for a typical company to handle. The R&D costs could only really be shouldered by the larger ones.
It was a major drive for the collapse and consolidation of so many American defence companies in the 90s that the end of the Cold War only hastened.
@@nektulosnewbie That applies to airliners as well.
Just after WWII, BOAC wanted a new long-haul airliners for the british empire.
They sent the scope statement to 10 british manufacturers. Five of them submitted proposals, finally Bristol won with the Britannia.
So in 1946, just in the UK, there were 10 companies that could build a long-range airliner.
Now, being generous, there are 6 in the world.
Airbus and Boeing are actively making them.
We can add Comac, because they're developping one, UAC (Russia), and Lockheed and Embraer who are not making such airliners but probably could if they wanted to.
@@Justanotherconsumer Clarence Johnson had a hand in designing the L-10 Electra (Amelia's aircraft) when he was still a student, and was 40 when he designed the SR-71.
Eric "Winkle" Brown is repeatedly on record saying that the Sabre was his favourite aircraft, and also that one of his few regrets was never having the opportunity to fly the CAC Mk 32 Avon Sabre.
I really enjoyed the interview of him talking about his flying experience
When I was stationed at Kadena in 1990s there were 2 Canadair Sabres that were used to tow the darts for air-to-air gunnery practice. Sometimes they would lead a 4-ship of F-15s on way back.
My father flew Swords back in the fifties and did the first half of his European tour in Mk.5's before being reequipped with Mk.6's.
He said they were not the same aircraft and the only advantage the Mk.5 had was altitude. He claimed he could cut inside any other fighter he went up against because the Mk.6's auto-slats gave such incredibly fast onset G.
If he was still alive he would have a fistfight with anyone who said the Mk.6 was not the greatest fighter of all time!
Canadian here, you're fine lol, I completely agree that the heavier firepower of the CAC Sabre just edges out the CL-13 Mk. 6 as the best Sabre. Thank you for this video and all of your other great videos on aircraft!
The Australian Avon Sabre wired for 'winderswas best, but such a massive re-engineering as to be not the most cost effective of them. The F-86 was Winkle Briwn's favourite and an engineering marvel in its time.
I'm a "Von Mises" economist follower and the RAAF would have been much better off buying F-86F aircraft and saving the Canadian taxpayers the difference in cost.
Aussie has learned the hard way about the perils of putting your aviation production in the hands of others during WW2. We knew that if the 1950s cold war turned hot it was better to have some production capacity on home soil. Even Menzies understood that. The Avon sabre by the numbers is better than a Mig17 and 19. They went throughout the Malayan emergency and gave us F4 pilots a great analogy for mig17 used in Vietnam when flying from RAAF Ubon in Thailand. The F86f was good but in contested Air space the Avon sabre had better Kinematics and fire power. The RAAF boys had the arses kicked by mig 15s over Korea, inferior meteors had been a poor choice for 75 squadron. Menzies should have withdrawn the RAAF when the migs were introduced.
@@Easy-Eight They felt the same. Plans to re-engine the Mirage III were scrapped due to fears it would get too tricky. An Avon Mirage would have been cool, though.
Aussie Sabre with its Avon engine, cannons and sidewinders was superior in my view, but the Canadian Sabre was a close second.
The Avon had the same thrust as the orenda and mk.6 had aim-9b.
The canons are better but I do remember the Aussies having trouble with them at least at first.
The Aussie Sabres were superior in counterclockwise turning fights.
@@creid7537Coriolis Effect?
@@shawnmiller4781 Yup. Drains, planes, what’s the difference really?
The final pic made me tear up😢 I would have love to have seen Arrows and TSR2s in Squadron Service
*Side eye in Australian* grins
maybe
Canadian winking back...the CAC Sabre was a beast...Oz should've marketed it to the Swiss, who loved the Canadair Sabre except it didn't have cannon...
@@stevetournay6103 ……could have used guess, while CAC had a long (ish) history with North American I’d imagine they didn’t have the rights to export (particularly the engine)….besides the Australian government wasn’t “that” interested in the industry :)
R CAF what the hell we say R C A F!
That threw me slightly too...
Robovoice?
I have heard RAF guys call the USAF "oosaf", so maybe it's a thing
@@robmarsh6668 Well, even I say U-SAF on rare occasions.
Saw one at the Canadian warplane heritage museum. Really cool aircraft
Beautiful from all angles but surprisingly diminutive.
Good presentation.
I meet some of the Canadian ground crews at Ft. Belvoir in the early seventies when I was a Generator instructor. They were down Thule in Greenland for a 4-week course on turbine powered generators. They served with Saber 6 units in Germany before being posted to Thule. One of their commanders flew through a Hanger when an alert caused two squadrons to try to take off from opposite ends of the runway.
I don't think there will ever be another aircraft as beautiful as the Sabre.
Just an elegant, beautiful plane. Artwork really.
I loved the F-101 Voodoo
F-14?
@@rogerkay8603 Nowhere near as sleek, but the F-14's rugged, mechanical look has a charm of its own.
Mig 29?
I would have enjoyed the inclusion of the J65 (Sapphire) powered FJ-3 and FJ-4 in this comparison of the various Air Force Furies. The FJ-3 was roughly the same weight as the CAC and Commonwealth Sabers, and enjoyed slightly higher thrust. (The FJ-4 was a rather different aircraft that traded performance for range.)
I find the FJ4 ugly, in a cool way.
I'm such a nerd, that i just watched a 22 minute video on which version of the Sabre could have been best, a plane that was decommissioned over 60 years ago. And best of all, there was even some humor in it too...
Nothing to argue about: the Canadair Saber was the best Saber PERIOD. Bought up by Belgium, Germany and many other countries all in agreement of its superiority!
Im happy to share top spot with our Canadian brothers on who had the best F86
And I'm equally as happy to share that with our brothers down under
🇨🇦 🤝 🇦🇺
As an Australian, I'm duty and honour bound to advocate for the CA-27 Mk.32 Sabre. I'd honestly love to see a comparison between it and the canadian one though
How about it and a MiG-17?
I’m incredibly biased but CAC-27 Avon Sabre is number one!
What was incredible about the RCAF Sabre and the others was it actually was slightly superior in level turning fights when compared to a F-16. There were a few mock fights where the Sabres were able to be rather annoying to the just coming Into service 16.
My grandfather worked on each and every Sabre that left the Canadair plant. It's most likely where I get my love for aviation 😊
I recall a passage in Chuck Yeager's autobio from when he was stationed in Germany, challenging all comers to Sabre races, he always won , because he cranked in and strapped the tail pipe of his Sabre to boost the exhaust pressure, ( at the threat of burning out the engine!).
And his autobiography also notes he generally lost the gunnery competitions to the RCAF.
@@Gerhardium He also said he came across a Sargent banging nails into the 50 cal gun ports on a Sabre to stop them vibrating too much to improve the aim!
@@johnstirling6597 That makes the aircraft maintainer in me shudder. Different times.
Yeager was a rare individual as an old and bold test pilot
The Canadair sabre is the best Sabre, did the H model ever win gunnery competitions? No . signed, a Canadian.
Great job! Here's hoping for a video on the RCAF Voodoo soon! I had a great uncle that worked with them.
First time I’ve ever caught a video 3 minutes after upload. Let’s see if it’s a good one.
And??
What's the problem? It's always nice to be early.
@@burtbacarach5034 And it's a really good episode. I thought one paint-job of Sabre was pretty much like every other. I didn't realize until now that Japan and Canada were not making carbon copies, but their own variation of the Sabre. Now I wonder if countries we sell to, Like F-15's to Israel or F-16's to literally everybody, are built in that country and customized like the Sabre was.
man.. i know it was only shown for a couple seconds towards the end of the video. but my god the CF-105 was such a tremendously beautiful aircraft. as a Canadian that one will always leave a burn.
Well there’s quite a bit of competition, here’s a list of the final mass produced marks of all the major types:-
NA F86D/K/L
NA F86F
NA FJ3M Fury
NA FJ4B Fury
CAC CA-27 Mk32 (Avon) Sabre
Canadair Mk6 (Orenda) Sabre
Being Australian I of course am heavily biased in favour of the Commonwealth Aircraft Avon Sabre.
The FJ4B is a different design and looks as different to the Sabre family as a MiG 17 or an F-84F. The FJ4B is swept wing and that's about it. The FJ2 is just a navalized F-86E, arrestor gear and the rest adding too much weight. The FJ3 with that beautiful J65 engine had a power/weight ratio about equal to the Canadair Mk6. So, that's the competition of the MK6, CA-27, and FJ3... It all comes down to the skill of the pilot or aviator.
@@Easy-Eight They all had swept wings.
@@mickvonbornemann3824 Ever really look at an FJ4B? It does not look like a Sabre. The Aussie Sabre, FJ2, FJ3, Canadair, and F-86 day fighters look like sisters. The F-84F, MiG-15, MiG-17, and French Mystere are swept wing and that's about it for a true resemblance to the Sabre.
@@Easy-Eight yeh the wing has greater longitudinal depth as the sweep of the leading & trailing edges vary more to make up for it being thiner & it has a smaller intake, but it is of the same family. There’s quite a bit of difference between many of the variants. But what’s it matter, who the fuk cares? I don’t. Surely you can find something more important to argue about, like something that really matters.
@@mickvonbornemann3824 *Surely you can find something more important to argue about, like something that really matters.* Well we could discuss "Biden's" stelar performance in Thursday's debate.
Strange you didn't mention the FJ-3 Fury as the ultimate Sabre. It had a 7,650 of thrust, 4 - 20mm guns, and 17,926 pounds combat weight on 302 square feet of wing.
I’m going with this too.
The aussie sabres were best....rr avon engines.
14:30 "... Because I can." Hanger flying at it's finest.
Canadian media and being pants on head with planes is a time honoured tradition here. Look at the people right now trying to get the F-35 program cancelled by saying that the Avro Arrow is better. (cause faster)
Very, very good and interesting. Thank you for all your work. You're a real treasure for us avgeeks.
Gotta love the F-86 Saber. She was a gorgeous 50s Hot Rod of a fighter jet.
for me personally i think quantity is a quality all of its own, and thus to me the CL Mk.6 remains the supreme sabre, no this has nothing to do with my canuck pride, nothing at all.. on another note; Thanks for a video looking at our Sabre! I've asked for quite a while and I'm very happy with the result.
I wonder how good the cac avon sabre could habe been with the RR avon Ra 14. 10000 lb of thrust a bit lighter than the RA.7 and slightly narrower.
The late mark Canadair Sabres (5 and 6), with the Orenda, were terrific. However the Aussie CAC Sabre, with the RR Avon and cannon instead of 50 cal guns, was hotter still...
I have a copy of the book "Sabre - The Canadair Sabre in RAF Service" by Duncan Curtis. The operation to air-ferry the aircraft across the Atlantic was called "Bechers Brook", which if you know anything about jump horse racing in the UK will hopefully make you smile 🙂.
Mm. 105 at the end.
From the top of the mountain of Arrow mythology, if you look east across the Atlantic on a clear day, you can make out the top of the mountain of TSR2 mythology in the UK...😁
I noticed you sped up your narration in comparison to older vids - much better now! Keep up the great work!
When I served with the 8th TAC in Kunsan ROK back in '78, ROKAF was flying Canadair F86s still (we were flying F4Ds and Es). The ROKAF Sabre pilots flew them like madmen with AIM9 missiles on wing pylons nearly as long as the airframe! The Sabres looked like they were carrying telephone poles!
The F4D is the Skyray.
@@dalecomer5951they probably meant F-4D, one of the improved variants based off the USAF F-4C.
@@dalecomer5951 No the F4 is the Phantom...The Lead Sled, The Bent Winged Bugsucker.
@@bellakaldera3305
Not really - USAF designations always have the hyphen in the middle:
"F-4," rather than "F4."
Old fashioned USN designations worked differently. The F4D was indeed the Skyray.
That’s cool. Were the Sabres there on TDY, or were they stationed there? I was stationed in Kunsan from mid ‘08-January ‘10
As a Canadian I’m going to choose the Canadair Sabre because I like it and I can😁
The clips showing the Golden Hawks brings back fond memories. The first time I saw them perform was at the Western Fairgrounds in London Ontario in the early 60's. This then 8 or 9 year old was totally mesmerized. I saw them again maybe a year later at the old RCAF base at Centralia, Ontario. The last time I saw them was at Toronto's CNE grounds probably in 1963. The USAF Thunderbirds were there too and their Super Sabers were certainly faster (and louder). But the Golden Hawks struck me as the more graceful and visually appealing aircraft. It was a sad day for me when I heard they disbanded.
I like the Australian one.
But I'm biased. xD
TLDR: NO!🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺💪💪💪💪💪🦘🦘🦘🦘🦘🦘🦘🦘🦘
Bravo to the designers and engineers at N. American Aviation.
The Sabre will remain one of the most notable jet aircraft in history.
Being Aussie, to me Aussie CAC Sabres are the best with the higher power Rolls Royce Avon jet engine and 20mm cannons. and.... Aussie fighter pilots..
Thanks for mentioning the area rule experiments. It was news to me.
North American Aviation designed two of the most beautiful aircraft ever built,the P-51 Mustang and the F-86 Sabre.
Always liked the F-86 and to be honest North American Aviation.
The Saber and the Mustang deadly opponents.
The Australian Sabre was pretty good also,it had 20mm & 30mm cannons instead of.50cal hmg's.I think aust sabres also had a more powerful engine than the U.S.model.
And the Australian Avon Sabre ?
So I have been deluding myself that CAC sabres had had the most powerful engines and 4 20mm cannons are more capable than 6 .50 calibre machine guns.
Wow, just wow. Another remarkably good documentary on early Cold War jets. I am becoming accustomed to having my expectations exceed by your videos. For 45 years my favorite combat aircraft were the F-4 (home) and Mirage III (away). Your videos have convinced me of Sabre. So, another excellent video worth the wait ❤
The ending like all things Canadian.
We can do great things, and we have lots of resources. But our politicians will always fumble it.
CAC Avon Sabre #1
Germain Park Sarnia Ontario Canada. There is a SABRE on display at the west end of the park. This jet was badass!!!
The factory they were built in was a mile and a half from where I live. Sadly, it's no longer there.
I don't know if it is the best, but I do know it is the version of the Sabre my country used 😁
Thanks a lot for the video
Well some say that the Australian version,with the Avon engine was pretty good
This channel is clearly a labor of love. I am astounded at the depth of your research into and presentation of these obscure but fascinating subjects.
Now that I finish watching, the only question I have left is how does the ultimate naval Sabre the FJ4 fury, and its license built, sapphire J 65 engine compare . I don’t know what wing it used l, but I know the navy would’ve had placed a priority on low speed handling and it’s a ability to carry more fuel and different munitions so is it like a cross between an Avon and a saber hog?
Those who enjoyed this may appreciate reading James Salter’s “The Hunters” and “Cassada.”
A friend's dad was an RCAF Sabre pilot. He got the certificate for breaking the sound barrier in the Sabre... in a 90 degree dive, as you do. Balls of titanium.
The opening was one of the most beautiful air-to-air sequences I've ever seen!
I have seen one in real life at the Atlantic Canada aviation museum amazing plane
I live in Brockville Canada. We have a RCAF F-86 displayed as if it had just taken off and was starting to bank into a turn. It is in a park overlooking the St Laurent river. Seen by hundreds of people every day when they go to the park. I think it will soon be repainted as there was a news article saying the paint had deteriorated and she needed repainting. It looks great flying on the top of the pole by the way.
Australia and Canada turned the basic Sabre into hotrods with the Avon Engine and Orenda Iroquois (correction Orenda 10 and 14) engines.
Orenda, but not Iroquois...the Iroquois was the (much larger) engine intended for the ill-fated Arrow interceptor. (Unlike the too-tailormade Arrow, the Iroquois was marketable, and should not have been cancelled when the Arrow was.)
@@stevetournay6103 oops you're right I meant the Orenda 10 and 14
I watched the GOLDEN JETS fly in air shows as a youth and they were glorious to see! I’m 73 now and will remember them in their glory…😊
Put the Orenda engine in the CAC Sabre and you'll have the best Sabre.
I got a book that says the Australian saber with the avon engine was the best saber. Would love to have flown one
I think NAPFATG said as much in a prior vid!
That's the first time I've ever heard "arr-kaf." 😕
Arkaf? Never heard that one. Is this AI?
Why did they keep making the Sabre faster when its main deficit to the aircraft it would face was its ability to turn tightly?
You need to understand that in the age of guns speed was the most important attribute for a fighter. Speed and climb is what conferred the ability to control the engagement. If tight turns were the decisive attribute aircraft designs would have sacrificed speed for turn rate/radius, but the opposite was the case, at least until effective A-A missiles began to dominate combat.
I think when you look at world war II basically everyone at the end was trying to build a boom and zoom fighter because it's safer for the pilot so the kill ratio goes up. A turning fighter only get to turn if the bandit turns with them.
And even if they do turn with you, and you get em, you are now slow and have to hope one of his buddies aren't about to get you.
Happy to see you review the Sabres my Dad and uncle flew in the 50's when they were in the RCAF, They loved them. Very good presentation, thanks much :)
The best Sabre was the CAC Avon Sabre
not sure I buy everything you're saying except about the cannons vs the brownings. I think it comes down to where in the flight envelope we are seeing the combat
🇦🇺no argument here 😂
Avon-Sabre for the win
Routinely my favorite content on RUclips
I read Canadians put their engine in it
Canadian Sabre: Was I the best Saber there was?
Canada: No. But you were the one we needed most. And that is just as good as being the best there was.
More brilliant content - love this channel
Very good! - I'll even let the CAC photo-win pass.... but just one little quibble. I have never heard anyone, any veteran, any Canadian say "Are-Kaf." The phrase as far as know has always been "Are See Eh Eff"
German fighter ace Erich Hartmann loved the Sabre Mk. 6 the formation a 12:59 features his "black tulip" nose art from his Me 109 so I guess they're from JG 71, the fighter wing he commanded. His argument for air superiority fighters like the Sabre instead of the F-104G Starfighter lead to him basically being sidelined for early retirement.
Even USAF General Chuck Yeager HATED the Canadair Sabre, because it COMPLETELY OUTCLASSED the US Version. Higher ceiling, More Manoeuvrable, Faster, and longer range. He complains in his book that he HATED when the RCAF Sabres would fly above them, dive, Zoom past them, and mock them over the radio.
when i was a kid the Sabre, the 104 and the 105 were what i thought a jet looked like.
Which 105? 😉
F 101 Voodoo for me!
The Canadian Warplane Heritage Museum in Hamilton, Ontario had a beautiful CL-13 (Canadair Sabre) Golden Hawk on display. It has cutaway sections on the port side that show things like the three port 0.50” M3 Browning machine guns and the Avro Canada Orenda 14 turbojet engine.
nice, I have a signed copy of "The Canadair Sabre" by Milberry. but i looked it up, you can order this book new, inc shipping, from CANAV books (Larry Milbury), hardcover, $30 in Canada, $35 CDN in USA and $50 CDN for all international orders.
1:25 It is not R-CAF. It is the R. C. A. F.
Four individual letters.
Maybe they used an AI to the voice over for the early part of the video. My father was ground support personnel in the RCAF for 4 Fighter Wing near Baden. A very young me circa 1955 was there as a dependent. I saw them many times on the flight line and in the air. Especially during the Hungarian Uprising I remember the Canadair F-86s flying Combat Air Patrol.
The quality of your content is impressive. Thanks for your hard work. You're very talented at making documentaries! Cheers
My grandad was an aircraft mechanic in 1 Squadron SAAF in the early 70's. He worked on Vampires and the Sabres, with the Sabre being his favorite.