The scan+sig+spike rule in Dropfleet was the main thing that pushed me into actually buying the game. It's so clever, strategic and thematic at the same time.
I'd add the patrol phase in 'Chain of Command' - it reflects the chaotic way small unit engagements occur, and does away with the startikng line, with a side benefit of accelerating action.
Heat is a fantastic rule for Battletech. A lot of the crunch comes from the fact that each weapon is tracked and fired separately, and the hit locations. The only other thing that approached that level of detail and gameplay was GW's Imperial Knight game they came out with a few years ago, and to a lesser degree, WarmaHordes.
Interesting selection. Two more games that have great mechanics are 'Malifaux' - I love the fact that there are no dice at all. And 'Saga' The battle board and possible multiple moves for a single unit, together with the fatigué mechanic, make that game very interesting and unique.
I am a big fan of the pin rules used in Warlord Games Beyond the Gates of Antares and Warlords of Erehwon (and also Bolt Action, I believe, though Im not familiar with those rules). Units accumulate pins when they come under fire, whether or not the shooting hurts them, and pins acts as negative modifier to activation rolls. If a unit hss more pins than their courage they automatically break and you have to periodically sacrifice an activation to rally and remove them. Its a really simple, clean mechanism for managing battlefield morale.
@@ethanmckinney203 No worries. It's a great game. In fact, my Scourge fleet will be in orbit this evening, when a mate of mine brings round his cursed PHR!
GW’s Middle Earth LOTR game does a great job of making heroes a much bigger and more tactically interesting part of the game than most war games I’ve seen. The actions of other units are much more dependent on them because of their heroic actions and stand fast against courage fails. Really works in that setting. I think Hail Caesar’s system of issuing orders to troops is interesting - makes the quality of your general more relevant and good simulation of the difficulty of commanding armies esp in ancient times. Though can be very annoying if bad luck causes your army to just not carry out your orders and lose you the game
I am a fan of the Middle Earth SBG myself. When the new boxed set comes, I plan to give it some coverage. And, I totally agree, the heroes are really influential- which nicely mirrors the source material. 👌
I chose Dust, as I'm a lot more familiar with system. Infinity has always intrigued me (Sandtrap looks great!) - but I am not a fan of glueing together metal models. Particularly when I drop them. 😬 That has always put me off.
@The.Game.Cave. I hope you give a try someday. Constantly exchanging fire, face to face rolling, and expending multiple orders really let you have action sequences. But yeah i dig the list. Maybe another one could be malifaux card system.
My experience with random activations came from Bolt Action 2nd edition. It felt clever at first, but then seemed a problem. My working theory on games (whether miniatures or card games) is 1) Did I bring the right faction list (or deck)? 2) Did I make the right choices in game? (moving/activating units or playing certain cards from my hand) and 3) the luck of dice rolling or drawing the right cards from your deck at the right time. Adding yet ANOTHER random element takes away from the skill portion of list making/deck building/decision making in-game. Your Star Wars example seems to mitigate that some what, in terms of you getting to decide what units activated and when. There is a game that comes to mind, I can't for the life of me remember the name, but it seemed simple and elegant. Your Warlord was free, and you paid points for 4-model 'veterans', 8-model 'regulars' and 12-model 'fodder' units. At the beginning of your turn you rolled a handful of symbol dice and consulted your unit/ability dashboard. If you didn't roll the right dice, some of your units just couldn't activate that turn. That felt much too random for me; took away all the energy/skill of putting together a good list and making good decisions in-game. There are fun games where Luck is a majority element and deck/list/faction and in-game decisions are minor elements and that's okay, it changes your mindset when playing. But otherwise, if the focus of the game is deck/list/faction and in-game decisions, then the randomness of dice rolling and other factors needs to reduced. The Scan+Signature of the Dropship game sounds very clever.
@jonmattison3939 Great comment - thanks. My own tolerance for randomness is closely linked to both game length and theme. I don't mind swingy dice or mechanics in a short game - but if it loses someone a game that has taken all evening, then that can reduce the fun. When a game is intentionally more chaotic (such as Zone Wars), I've found people are more likely to chuckle at a crazy dice roll. Can't say I recognise the game you've described...
@@The.Game.Cave. Yes, for instance, I love Zombicide (Black Plague, Green Horde, etc) because it's a different kind of fun with all the randomness of card draws for loot and spawning and the dice rolls. But for something like Warhammer 40k or Magic the Gathering, I want a game where my decisions matter. I've invested in this army, this deck, and I want an end game more dependent on skill than on luck. I don't remember how long ago I played or how the game may have changed in the meantime, but I just looked it up; the game I was referring to is Saga by Studio Tomahawk. As I've grown older I'm definitely more of a fan of shorter games (Combat Patrol/Spearhead) and less interested in longer games (40k/Age of Sigmar). Preferring to collect/paint/play multiple Combat Patrols and Spearheads (collect wide) than look at my painting table with 188 tyranid models partially painted.
@@jonmattison3939 It sounds like our hobby journey - and changing preferences - are similar. I can remember happily spending a whole Saturday setting up and playing a game of 5th Edition 40k. These days, I'd rather play several shorter games.
@@The.Game.Cave. Exactly. These days I reserve Saturdays for building/painting. My buddy comes over for a game night on a weeknight and after a day's worth of work, I'm not always up for an evening's-worth of 'homework' for a full 40k game. I'd switch it up be he works on Saturdays.
@@jonmattison3939 I know what you mean. After a long day, I don't want a game that demands too much of me. Definitely prefer a daytime session for that sort of thing!
Grim Dark's AI rules operate similar to the Dust Tactics idea, just a different die roll. Really appreciate your doing this video. Any suggestions on best solitaire rules for conquistadors v Incans, and for Saxons v Vikings?
@peterixon8708 Not tried Grim Dark - but that sounds cool. My knowledge of Solitaire games is limited, I'm afraid. If I'm on my own, I tend to play a board game with decent AI. I've had requests to cover Rangers of Shadowdeep, so I may look at that some time.
Well, you did a good job with your video; I took notes and I've been doing war games - for pleasure, and in my government career that I retired from last year - since 1978.
I really dig OnePageRules' implementation. Heavily inspired by the GW games, but alternate activations, model agnostic so you can use the stuff you already bought for other games, *much* faster play and the rules are free so you don't have to buy books that become outdated in short order ^^"
Dropfleet commander was awesome but the 2.0 version killed the fun for me to many thing went out the windows the game loosed a big part of his uniqueness ! Battletech and asoiaf are trully awesome games not so a fan of legion ! But great video thanks !
I enjoyed Dropfleet 1st edition, but I found the games ran long. The streamlining in 2.0 removed some interesting complexity from ground battles. I understand why they did it, though - played a 750 point game last night in just over 2 hours. It's more manageable now, I think. And I still love the models! 🙂
@The.Game.Cave. The model are great. But for me the activation, the all mesure and Los for the group leader (ignoring the other ship in the group) The splash damage, the 4 status effect ignored on group. The only two orbit. The bombardement busted at a point when reentry do nothing. The bomber and fighter being way to pricey for their impact. And a lot of weapon totaly busted..... Have totaly killed the hype for me. I have make 6 games 4 with my ucm and 2 with my shaltari. We are just playing "40k" in space rven BFG was more fun. I liked the first one and found it better than armada 2.0 but this 2.0.... All my friend in our group agree anf a lot a of new player in my local storr tried it and found it lack of everything and prefer armada. It's really a bummer. I love the model and some change. Like the new armor es/ks/bs. But some weapon do nothing now... Playing shaltati against PHR is a lot of fun..... They have 3+ sav on Es and 90% of the shaltari arsenal is E. Bioficier are also the new shaltari lol. Busted weapon, low sig, good scan and poor sav but with always a bs. Which is a lot better than shielf sav and nothing or 6+ I will stop my rant here sorry x) I was just really hype during announcement then afraid during the first tease and now totally disappointed.
@andreazaltron6850 Good question! Zone Wars works well with 3. Its chaotic nature makes it harder for players to gang-up on someone. The Middle Earth Strategy Game is also pretty good. I've played with a large bunch of orcs against some allied good goog guys a few times - Rohan and Gondor or Elves and Dwarves, for example. You know, this might make a good video itself! 🙂
Seconding the odd player video! 2 and 5 players are easy. 3 and 5 players is a lot more restricted. Particularly with war games where it needs to try and incentivise not picking on one ppayer
Great collection of good game rules. What I also enjoyed with Dust was how well they managed to make a game around a D3 instead of a D6. Really gets you thinking 🪖
The scan+sig+spike rule in Dropfleet was the main thing that pushed me into actually buying the game. It's so clever, strategic and thematic at the same time.
@pluisjen134 I agree. I think this also combines well with fire-arc rules and limited turning options to make it a really tactical game.
I'd add the patrol phase in 'Chain of Command' - it reflects the chaotic way small unit engagements occur, and does away with the startikng line, with a side benefit of accelerating action.
@@paulhefferan8106Not played that, but it does sound interesting. 🙂
Heat is a fantastic rule for Battletech. A lot of the crunch comes from the fact that each weapon is tracked and fired separately, and the hit locations. The only other thing that approached that level of detail and gameplay was GW's Imperial Knight game they came out with a few years ago, and to a lesser degree, WarmaHordes.
Good selection of rules 🤙
The spacecraft signature + scan range is really innovative 🤟
@@ronniabati Thanks. It is a great rule. 🙂
Interesting selection. Two more games that have great mechanics are 'Malifaux' - I love the fact that there are no dice at all. And 'Saga' The battle board and possible multiple moves for a single unit, together with the fatigué mechanic, make that game very interesting and unique.
@Ant1815 Malifaux's use of cards is certainly very clever. Maybe I will get round to a second list at some point!
Completely agree about the Saga battle boards - a fantastic mechanic that allows for really dynamic play.
I am a big fan of the pin rules used in Warlord Games Beyond the Gates of Antares and Warlords of Erehwon (and also Bolt Action, I believe, though Im not familiar with those rules). Units accumulate pins when they come under fire, whether or not the shooting hurts them, and pins acts as negative modifier to activation rolls. If a unit hss more pins than their courage they automatically break and you have to periodically sacrifice an activation to rally and remove them. Its a really simple, clean mechanism for managing battlefield morale.
Fantastic selection and presentation of these mechanics. Thank you!
@@mikec64 Thanks! 😊
Thank you for covering Dropfleet Commander!
@@ethanmckinney203 No worries. It's a great game. In fact, my Scourge fleet will be in orbit this evening, when a mate of mine brings round his cursed PHR!
GW’s Middle Earth LOTR game does a great job of making heroes a much bigger and more tactically interesting part of the game than most war games I’ve seen. The actions of other units are much more dependent on them because of their heroic actions and stand fast against courage fails. Really works in that setting.
I think Hail Caesar’s system of issuing orders to troops is interesting - makes the quality of your general more relevant and good simulation of the difficulty of commanding armies esp in ancient times. Though can be very annoying if bad luck causes your army to just not carry out your orders and lose you the game
I am a fan of the Middle Earth SBG myself. When the new boxed set comes, I plan to give it some coverage. And, I totally agree, the heroes are really influential- which nicely mirrors the source material. 👌
Very good ..I love those mechanics ....spoilt for choice ! 👍
@spaceoddity5674 Thanks - there are some really innovative designers out there! Andy Chambers bring a particular favourite of mine.
Those wer esome good rules you picked, grats.
@@RanwulfMaxwell Thanks! 🙂
Great video!
Urgh I want to try all these games! They all sound so much fun!
@@griffglowen5555 So many games, so little time! I feel your pain! 🙂
Thanks for this ONE!
@dariostabletopbastelecke4846 No problem - glad you liked it! 😀
Surprised you didnt choose infinity's ARO system as the reaction rule. But the dust one sounds good too
I chose Dust, as I'm a lot more familiar with system. Infinity has always intrigued me (Sandtrap looks great!) - but I am not a fan of glueing together metal models. Particularly when I drop them. 😬 That has always put me off.
@The.Game.Cave. I hope you give a try someday. Constantly exchanging fire, face to face rolling, and expending multiple orders really let you have action sequences.
But yeah i dig the list. Maybe another one could be malifaux card system.
@Blaowser I may pick up the basic starter set for Infinity that I believe is coming out soon and give it a try...
nice one
Great video Carl 👍
Thanks, mate.
Fantasy and SciFi gaming
My experience with random activations came from Bolt Action 2nd edition. It felt clever at first, but then seemed a problem. My working theory on games (whether miniatures or card games) is 1) Did I bring the right faction list (or deck)? 2) Did I make the right choices in game? (moving/activating units or playing certain cards from my hand) and 3) the luck of dice rolling or drawing the right cards from your deck at the right time. Adding yet ANOTHER random element takes away from the skill portion of list making/deck building/decision making in-game.
Your Star Wars example seems to mitigate that some what, in terms of you getting to decide what units activated and when.
There is a game that comes to mind, I can't for the life of me remember the name, but it seemed simple and elegant. Your Warlord was free, and you paid points for 4-model 'veterans', 8-model 'regulars' and 12-model 'fodder' units. At the beginning of your turn you rolled a handful of symbol dice and consulted your unit/ability dashboard. If you didn't roll the right dice, some of your units just couldn't activate that turn. That felt much too random for me; took away all the energy/skill of putting together a good list and making good decisions in-game.
There are fun games where Luck is a majority element and deck/list/faction and in-game decisions are minor elements and that's okay, it changes your mindset when playing. But otherwise, if the focus of the game is deck/list/faction and in-game decisions, then the randomness of dice rolling and other factors needs to reduced.
The Scan+Signature of the Dropship game sounds very clever.
@jonmattison3939 Great comment - thanks.
My own tolerance for randomness is closely linked to both game length and theme. I don't mind swingy dice or mechanics in a short game - but if it loses someone a game that has taken all evening, then that can reduce the fun.
When a game is intentionally more chaotic (such as Zone Wars), I've found people are more likely to chuckle at a crazy dice roll.
Can't say I recognise the game you've described...
@@The.Game.Cave. Yes, for instance, I love Zombicide (Black Plague, Green Horde, etc) because it's a different kind of fun with all the randomness of card draws for loot and spawning and the dice rolls. But for something like Warhammer 40k or Magic the Gathering, I want a game where my decisions matter. I've invested in this army, this deck, and I want an end game more dependent on skill than on luck.
I don't remember how long ago I played or how the game may have changed in the meantime, but I just looked it up; the game I was referring to is Saga by Studio Tomahawk.
As I've grown older I'm definitely more of a fan of shorter games (Combat Patrol/Spearhead) and less interested in longer games (40k/Age of Sigmar). Preferring to collect/paint/play multiple Combat Patrols and Spearheads (collect wide) than look at my painting table with 188 tyranid models partially painted.
@@jonmattison3939 It sounds like our hobby journey - and changing preferences - are similar. I can remember happily spending a whole Saturday setting up and playing a game of 5th Edition 40k. These days, I'd rather play several shorter games.
@@The.Game.Cave. Exactly. These days I reserve Saturdays for building/painting. My buddy comes over for a game night on a weeknight and after a day's worth of work, I'm not always up for an evening's-worth of 'homework' for a full 40k game. I'd switch it up be he works on Saturdays.
@@jonmattison3939 I know what you mean. After a long day, I don't want a game that demands too much of me. Definitely prefer a daytime session for that sort of thing!
Another good video. 👍
@@pdj672 Thanks, dude. 😄
Those are cool spaceship miniatures and stands. I guess they're from Dropfleet?
@cetx They are: the grey ships are UCM (humans), and the silvery-blue space sharks are the Scourge (parasitic aliens). 🙂
Grim Dark's AI rules operate similar to the Dust Tactics idea, just a different die roll. Really appreciate your doing this video. Any suggestions on best solitaire rules for conquistadors v Incans, and for Saxons v Vikings?
@peterixon8708 Not tried Grim Dark - but that sounds cool.
My knowledge of Solitaire games is limited, I'm afraid. If I'm on my own, I tend to play a board game with decent AI.
I've had requests to cover Rangers of Shadowdeep, so I may look at that some time.
Well, you did a good job with your video; I took notes and I've been doing war games - for pleasure, and in my government career that I retired from last year - since 1978.
@@peterixon8708 Wow - thanks very much! You must have thrown a few dice in your time. 🙂
Carl, bizarrely, I ended up playing the role of 'enemy' for 26 countries. I was very lucky how my professional life played out (no pun intended)
@@peterixon8708 That sounds intriguing!
Overall,I like alternate activations. I have started using them in 40k. It makes for a much better game
I wish GW would make that official. I suppose they worry about upsetting the apple cart...
I really dig OnePageRules' implementation. Heavily inspired by the GW games, but alternate activations, model agnostic so you can use the stuff you already bought for other games, *much* faster play and the rules are free so you don't have to buy books that become outdated in short order ^^"
Zone wars is great
@@henrikcollin4727 Yeah - one of my faves. 🙂
What about Malifaux's cheating fate mechanic?
@@sebastianb2044 A good choice. Maybe I needed to do a top ten!
Dropfleet commander was awesome but the 2.0 version killed the fun for me to many thing went out the windows the game loosed a big part of his uniqueness !
Battletech and asoiaf are trully awesome games not so a fan of legion !
But great video thanks !
I enjoyed Dropfleet 1st edition, but I found the games ran long. The streamlining in 2.0 removed some interesting complexity from ground battles. I understand why they did it, though - played a 750 point game last night in just over 2 hours. It's more manageable now, I think. And I still love the models! 🙂
@The.Game.Cave. The model are great.
But for me the activation, the all mesure and Los for the group leader (ignoring the other ship in the group)
The splash damage, the 4 status effect ignored on group.
The only two orbit.
The bombardement busted at a point when reentry do nothing.
The bomber and fighter being way to pricey for their impact.
And a lot of weapon totaly busted.....
Have totaly killed the hype for me.
I have make 6 games 4 with my ucm and 2 with my shaltari.
We are just playing "40k" in space rven BFG was more fun.
I liked the first one and found it better than armada 2.0 but this 2.0....
All my friend in our group agree anf a lot a of new player in my local storr tried it and found it lack of everything and prefer armada.
It's really a bummer.
I love the model and some change.
Like the new armor es/ks/bs.
But some weapon do nothing now...
Playing shaltati against PHR is a lot of fun..... They have 3+ sav on Es and 90% of the shaltari arsenal is E.
Bioficier are also the new shaltari lol.
Busted weapon, low sig, good scan and poor sav but with always a bs.
Which is a lot better than shielf sav and nothing or 6+
I will stop my rant here sorry x)
I was just really hype during announcement then afraid during the first tease and now totally disappointed.
any good games for 3 players?
@andreazaltron6850 Good question! Zone Wars works well with 3. Its chaotic nature makes it harder for players to gang-up on someone.
The Middle Earth Strategy Game is also pretty good. I've played with a large bunch of orcs against some allied good goog guys a few times - Rohan and Gondor or Elves and Dwarves, for example.
You know, this might make a good video itself! 🙂
@@The.Game.Cave. tnx man. I will try them. Make a dedicated video if you can
@@andreazaltron6850 Sure thing!
Seconding the odd player video! 2 and 5 players are easy. 3 and 5 players is a lot more restricted. Particularly with war games where it needs to try and incentivise not picking on one ppayer
@@Aneirinprime Hmm who would do such a dumbass move to gang up on a single player 😂
Great collection of good game rules. What I also enjoyed with Dust was how well they managed to make a game around a D3 instead of a D6. Really gets you thinking 🪖
@zaccoste8510 It does - very streamlined design. Dust has a great setting and look as well.