The way the pride flag keeps needing to be updated goes against the whole point of it. It’s a rainbow it’s abstract to begin with, therefore representing all people. By sticking on specific references on it, you’re inevitably going to exclude someone and it’ll be out of date soon. Stick to the simple rainbow and this is all avoided.
@DarkErminia I don't know, I feel the people who are concerned about the Pride Flag and the American flag are more than likely two different groups. I'm Bi, American, and also black. I don't have love for the American flag, but I don't get too in arms about changes to the Pride flag.
This is exactly why we have a flag that lasted for 40 years now need to be updated 5 times in less than 10 years. Once you start down this path, there's no way to refuse anyone from demanding an alteration without being a hypocrite.
@sdrawkcabUK That reminds me of how it's now considered transphobic to use the all pink lesbian flag instead of the "correct" flag when the orange flag is only like three years old and the all pink one (minus the lipstick) isn't even transphobic to begin with. Like I've seen lesbians be harassed by non-lesbians for it.
I blame the US flag culture as the source of this nonsense. The addition of stars to the current ridiculous 50 to the flag sets the precedent for changing the flag around every time you want someone welcomed into the group.
Honestly I kind of agree with the abstract approach, sometimes the more you include the more you might also exclude (The EU flag might be a good example since its just 12 stars on a blue background to represent Europe, at least a lot better than the original proposed design ever could)
As a European, I honestly don't really like our flag. I use it a lot because European identity means a lot to me, but I do believe in the theory that it was made up with Christianity in mind (blue as a Marian color, and the 12 stars representing the Apostles) which was obviously a bad decision as Europe nowadays is almost entirely secular and many Europeans are irreligious or part of other religions. The official interpretation on the other hand, is extremely vague and doesn't really make much sense to me.
I kinda never know how to feel about the ever-changing 'official' lgbtq+ flags, because the original rainbow one I believe does a fantastic job with already including everyone. It literally has every color.
Still dont understand why its a rainbow. Rainbows are illusions that only appear when humdity/pespective/sun meet crossover Also science, the great taboo
@@psycholaw4394 I always thought it was a rainbow because rainbows span across every colour, showing the diversity of the flag and how it represents a wide variety of human experiences
6 different colors is a lot for a flag, but the simplicity of it being a rainbow in a line makes it not overly complex. But these other flags that add tons of different colors and shapes makes for a much more complex flag that really is just an eyesore to look at
@@tomfuller4205 I think it’s more that virtue signaling weirdos decided they need to butt in. I don’t know anyone, LGBT or otherwise, who likes the “new” flag. So who came up with it?
In England, flying an England flag (rather than a Union Jack) is sometimes perceived as someone being overly nationalistic and possibly even xenophobic. Unless of course it’s World Cup season and then everyone and their Nan has a England flag up!
But why is that? What's wrong with waving a flag? How it's it nationalist to wave a flag? I can understand if it's a flag of a dictatorship but England isn't one
I mean, flying the Union Flag in England can often have a similar connotation as well. Both Nigel Fromage and Jacob CheeseCock celebrated Brexit with the UK flag instead of the English one in their backgrounds, for example. In fact, the UK flag is often used in England to promote one more populist message that the English one doesn’t convey, and that is “unity” (read: English superiority) with the other three countries of the UK
I'd argue that adding elements to the Union Jack (like the Welsh Dragon) is one of the few 'change the flag' arguments with any traction since it is literally composed of the flags of the other members of the 'United Kingdom'. It seems like it would be like adding a new US state without adding a new star to the US flag.
@@NakAlienEd yep I'm of the same opinion too. the Welsh aren't really potrayed on the flag and I feel like it would be somewhat unifying and it's long overdue
3:27 I think the Countryball usage is fine. The art style demands some kind of visual symbol for a country and how the symbol was treated back then or even if it's just associated with the country in modern times is not that important for that particular usage.
The worst part of online flag culture to me would be the treatment of the "Five Principles of Flag Design" as gospel. It leads to a lot of criticism of well-recognizable and meaningful flags as poorly designed for seemingly superficial reasons.
I personally dislike the rule that a flag has to be simple enough for a child to draw it from memory. Personally, it should that it would be at least recognizable if a child drew it from memory.
I absolutely agree, especially when they are used to judge a flag that has other purposes than representing a country of something like that. It's just silly to use the same metrics for a country's flag and a flag used by a neighbourhood of a small community.
@@coquimapping8680 Yeah, it's not that easy to remember flags that well. Also, flags that are easy to remember are often boring. I think that a flag being recognizable in black and white is cool too (and also helps the color blind a bit) but many simple designs wouldn't pass that. One of the big problems with the "seal on a bedsheet" designs is that they make flags less unique, but really simple flags aren't all that unique either.
That the one complain about this community, especially because i'm a brazilian and pur flag break two rule: it has something Whitten on it and the stars are too hard to anyone draw. Most of the flags i like breaks those two rules
Possible controversial opinion about a flag here: But I really hate the more modern version of the LGBTQ+ flag, adding tan, black and brown to the flag is really weird to me, as it almost suggests that because of their lack of inclusion on the flag, White, Asian, Indian etc members of the community are less important. I would have preferred they stuck to just the rainbow one, as it pretty easily conveyed “Diversity” pretty well. the newer one tries to be diverse by being super specific, which doesn’t make any sense.
I agree completely. Once you are being as literal as “the flag must have everybody’s skin tones on it” you’re setting an impossible standard of inclusivity that will never be met.
Also super confused why there is a sex worker umbrella? What does that have to do with pride/LGBT? Like I get that some LGBT people may be sex workers, but doesn't make sense to me as a gay man who is not a sex worker to have "my" pride flag include sex worker references.
I've always liked to use the expression "Expatriotism" to describe the phenomena of emigrants seemingly being more patriotic in their newly settled country than they would be back home
@@saulgoodmanKAZAKH I think he meant, being more patriotic towards their original country. In Europe this is fairly common, people originating from Algeria, Morocco, and such, will often wave flags from their origin country in all sorts of contexts (where it has no reason to be waved). For example, during football matches where neither Algeria nor any algerian player is playing. Or after the election of François Hollande in 2012. The same happens inside countries : in France, people from Brittany (but not living in Brittany) won't shut up about their salted butter and wave "Gwenn-ha-du" flags at all sorts of events, things they would most probably not do "at home". Maybe it is just a way of sticking out.
@@saulgoodmanKAZAKH You don't understand, we're talking about for example brits emigrating from the UK and immigrating to spain, and the brits becoming way more nationalist for THE UK while living over there. Not being patriotic about Spain. The vast majority of british immigrants living in hot mediterranean countries voted FOR brexit. Seriously. And now it's biting them all on the arse because now those countries like Spain and France have kicked them out and told them they'd be illegal immigrants if they didn't leave and move back to the UK. It's bizarre for a person living somewhere else in the EU, and only being allowed to live there because the UK was in the EU, then voting for the UK to leave the EU so that these immigrants are no longer allowed to live there. Delicious schadenfreude for the smart ones of us in the UK who voted remain. At least we get to see the pain the brexit voters brought on themselves entirely because of their own actions.
@@saulgoodmanKAZAKH a. You misinterpreted the comment B. I agree with the statement, that i don't have to be proud of nation that i had no say of being born in
I'd say the best way of being inclusive is not to include many little details but to use a generic, inoffensive symbol. I think the flags of Japanese prefectures are a great example of this
Yeah, if you add symbols for one specific group, you have to add them for all specific groups, else the flag looks like it's specifically excluding them.
The Pride flag is a great example of this failing. The “official” flag stood as it was for, I think, 50 years? But now in the past 10 years it’s been updated at least 5 times as they added in more stripes and designs to explicitly represent certain groups. And now that they’ve started, it’s difficult to say “no more changes” without coming across as bigoted.
@@anthonydelfino6171 I agree that the pride flag that JJ showed in the video is bad, but I've actually never seen it used outside of the internet. It's always either the rainbow flag or the rainbow flag with the chevron (or the trans flag or the bi flag or whatever, but those are different altogether)
Rome had a "flag", but it wasn't used like we do nowadays. Legion standards were basically the psuedo flag that most citizens held in high regards. That's why the eagle is most associated with Rome for it being a famous/common standard of legions
Standards aren't really flags tho, are they? Plus, any standard of any Roman legion wasn't the flag of Rome more than a US military flag is the flag of the USA. In any case, the point that JJ is trying to adress, i think, is that yes, you can find a symbolic piece of coloured cloth in almost any ancient culture, but associating it with the modern idea of a flag isn't an accurate mental image of the past
@@briandeweyforbes It obviously did not, as the Romans did not have widespread access to lightweight colored cloth and a capacity to mass-produce patterned cloth the way we do today. Even having colored clothes made of soft material in those days was considered a real sign of wealth. Any flag-like things present in Roman society would have been quite rare and expensive items, owned by and for the elite. So if they were venerated, it would have been because they were something impressively rare and highly ceremonial, which is not analogous to flag culture anywhere today.
@@sig_pagot Standards pretty much are flags for the ancient world. They are widespread through units across the land, represent their nation's values, and eventually were the predecessors/basis of modern flags. They were also far cheaper and durable to produce than a flags. In the case of certain nations, such as Lithuania, the standard and coat of arms essentially was the flag just now with a colored background.
It was the solid golden statue of an Eagle, messanger of Jupiter, which was considered the Sacred part of the standard. The bit of cloth below it with the state motto, SPQR (Senatus Populusque Romanum-“The Senate and People of Rome”) was just a bit of cloth and reminder to the Legion as to who they served as far as the Romans were concerned. And the Golden Eagle of the legion was not used in civilian life: too sacred, and legions generally weren’t even allowed within Rome’s official city limits, so neither would their eagle. The Eagle really was revered tho, as it symbolized Jupiter’s favoritism towards Rome, and desecration of it could not be tolerated. A Legion who lost its Eagle would be decimated-every ‘tent group’ or squad of 8 soldiers (people who did basically everything together, and technically considered a ‘decade’ because of their 2 slaves) would draw lots, and the person who drew the short straw would be required to be beaten to death by the other 7 members of their squad with clubs while their superiors supervised, and if someone was caught having STOLEN the eagle, that now-desecrated idol would be melted down and poured down the offender’s THROAT...and the legion would be decimated for letting it happen.
Despite how liberally the Americans use their flag, they seem surprised when they discover that Scandinavians use flags as birthday and Christmas decorations. Meanwhile, the Scandinavians pretty much only use flags for those occasions.
As an American, where I’d imagine that comes from is the idea of the flag representing both the people of the US and the US as a state. You tend to see the American flag in public contexts (on the news, on businesses or government buildings, out front of people’s houses, on clothing, etc), in that it is meant to be widely seen and represent a celebration or support of the US in general. Having the flag used for something that was a much more personal and private context (like celebrating a specific person’s birthday) would come across as odd since the event wouldn’t be focused on the government or the people of the US in a general sense, but instead on only a single person (unless the person had some connection to the government, like being a politician or in the military). However like JJ pointed out, each nation or group of people has their own ideas on appropriate flag usage, and it would be interesting to hear about the reasoning behind Scandinavian flag traditions
I don't know if you're from Scandinavia. However, I'm from Sweden and the only memorable case of "public" (non governmental) use of the flag is on busses. I don't think I've ever seen someone use it as Christmas or birthday decorations.
@@philip2205 Yeah I am from Scandinavia. Agree about the buses. But otherwise - are you kidding? So many birthday decorations in shops in Sweden have flags on them. And in Denmark, it's the done thing to have flags at a person's desk/dinner table for their birthday. I've also definitely seen people in Sweden decorate their Christmas trees with flags.
@@skarredcat our national anthem is literally about the flag, it's definitely a kind of umbrella symbol for everything American more so than a lot of countries
The problem with flags and Countryballs is that Countryballs are just balls with flags on them. There needs to be some sort of distinguishing flag for each ball, otherwise, no one can tell which country it is. So even if there weren't national flags for older countries, something needs to be added.
@Longhorn XII True, Israel is a Cube, Kazakhstan is a brick, an hypothetic 4th German Reich is a rectangle, Chile is sometimes represented like some kind of worm, Singapore and Bermuda are triangles and so on
This reminds me of the Yiddish flag controversy on Duolingo. On Duolingo they need a flag for every language they put up, but Yiddish is not a language exclusively spoken in one country, so there was quite a bit of confusion/controversy over what exactly to put it as. They ended with this black and white flag with a menorah on it, personally I'd never seen this flag and I assume most Jewish people/Yiddish speakers hadn't either, but it was a solution I suppose.
The entire concept of using a national flag to represent a language is just inherently problematic. Like, the two most popular laguages on there are English and Spanish, which already present problems in what flag to choose, so that should already clue you in to the fact that there isn't a 1:1 correspondence between languages and countries.
@@joaquinleon4114 Yet the flag they picked in the end for English is the American one. And if I'm not going insane they used to have the Mexican flag for Spanish but they've now changed it to the Spanish one. Which then creates a slight issue for the Catalan course (from Spanish), which is of course also a language native to Spain (but they use the historical Aragonese standard for that, which makes sense I suppose). See what I'm getting at?
I find a lot of the country ball people realize how anachronistic there being and make fun of it to an extent, a lot of flags are the made up on the spot to fill a certain role or make a character and nobody takes it too seriously. For example Poland is always drawn upsidedown since in the beginning of the webcomics you would find some people not drawing Poland right and it just stuck. It's become a staple of countryballs and now any ball associated with Poland must be drawn upsidedown. I've even seen these little ironic comics of 2 different interpretations of a historical balls depictions are fighting over which anachronism is right.
Absolutely. Also the fact that Poland and Indonesia are sometimes depicted together, but they're both reversed due to their flags... It's never meant to be serious.
I think my issues with new wave lgbt flags can be demonstrated with the irish flag. The green represents catholics, the orange protestants and the white is peace between them, as an irish athiest i still feel this flag represents me. If they decided to add a purple stripe to represent irish muslims and a red one for irish budhists, then id start to wonder if im really being represented
There is 2 key differences : first, there is a supreme authority over the flag of Ireland, the Irish government, whereas there is no "LGBT+ Assembly". Secondly, the nature of this group. The purpose of the lgbt community is to be open and welcoming to everyone who doesn’t fit in the cisgenre hetero majority, so thematically, it could make sense to make it evolve; also, the definition of what is and what isn’t lgbt sometimes isn’t clear, and the labels evolve rapidly, so putting it on the flag can make sense.
@@dieucondorimperial2509 The problem is, when you add more symbols, you actually exclude people. The progress flag has no representation for asexuals, intersex people, non-binary people (unless you want to put them under the trans umbrella), polyamorous folks, etc. Making matters worse, at times asexuals have been excluded from LGBTQ+ spaces or had their participation in the movement called into question, and so the progress flag comes across as more of the same, even if that was not the intent. The rainbow flag never had that problem, because it was intended to have broad, general significance, rather than trying to exhaustively recognize each individual subgroup with separate colors or symbols.
I'm waiting for the flag of the colorblind community which will simply be a white standard with a bunch of RGB codes strategically placed in appropriate areas. And the flag for the completely blind community that has braille all over it.
@@WNSQ-TV Yeah struck me as odd too. Like the modern german flag is often used in country balls to represent the germanic people who are a) much older and b) are a much more broad group, not because of some political reason or to 'push an anachronistic view of histroy' but because those comic strips are light hearted fun and not at all a correct historical represenation
As a German i can confirm that waving the flag or even just hanging it in your ground is uncommon and very suspicous to a lot of us. The connection is If you proudly represent the flag you may bei a fascist. Also this flag waving on especially Football a.e. soccer events is a pretty new thing that grew over time 10-15 years ago you would see und only a view flags even on world Championship matches
Interesting how different american attitudes are to german ones because of our history. While where im sitting, you display the stars and stripes or else youre a liberal fascist communist anarchist glue eater, its interesting that in germany, because....*that* time period, you guys consider waving your flag liberally dangerously nationalist. Tldr, i just regurgitated what you said with extra detail.
Yes, the only other place besides the soccer championship and official government buildings where you see the flag are the homes or protests of right wing (extremist) nationalists.
Lol he’s right. I’m an American immigrant and I have both flags hanging in my room. And Yeah when I look at them I do feel pride in being an American 🇺🇸 with my roots from Sudan 🇸🇩 . It’s weird how a piece of cloth can mean so much to me but it does
I feel you man, I lived in the US during my teenage years and I take a lot of pride in both my home nation US' flag. It's weird how you can get so attached to something but deep down I really feel like it reminds us of our lives and the path we forged for ourselves, or atleast that is the case for me anyways. JJ does a great job in this video explaining why flags hold so much significance for some people.
I get annoyed with the attitude of the online flag fandom, people get so pretentious with the “rules for good flag design” or whatever that it’s just insufferable.
Are you annoyed when someone says that anything is good compared to an alternative? In my opinion, the expression “it’s all good” is lazy and amounts to an argument for mediocrity everywhere. What a dull world that would be!
I also think the versions of the pride flag with more than just the rainbow look very busy, and the rainbow itself is as good of an all-inclusive symbol as you can get, although I heard an argument that made me rethink my opinion of the flag with the overlapping triangle being bad design. Basically the idea was that with the increased popularity of pride and the pride flag, it was starting to be used by people who were supportive of, say, same-sex marriage, but still kind of hostile towards other LGBT+ people, e.g. terfs. So since you couldn't assume the intention of the person using the flag to support the entire community, the flag wasn't totally doing its job. Thus the extra elements were added so it would be an explicitly clear show of support to everyone LGBT+ even if it was aesthetically cluttered. But I don't think the basic rainbow flag is going away, at least I hope not
The pride flag has already gone through revisions. For example, the original had pink but was dropped due to availability. It also reduced to 6 colors for dispay purposes. There also have been anti-gay activists trying to "reclaim" the rainbow flag (scare quotes because they assumed LGBT+ folks were stealing the rainbow symbolism from the story of Noah's ark) and would wear the rainbow colors while espousing anti-gay rhetoric. So I do not find the terf argument very persuasive when this has happened before and the flag withstood the test of time.
I disagree almost entirely with your second point. Because if the wrong kinds of people are using your symbol, that is an excuse for you to use it MORE, not less. In the UK we have, for the last few decades, had to work hard to stop our flag from being associated with neo-nazi skinhead groups. Can you imagine what would happen if the normal patriotic Brits had given up that fight and used an entirely new or modified flag to represent ourselves - simply to prove that _we are not those people?_ Only ever advocate for an alternative design to represent the fairer, more inclusive version of your community if you intend for that change to be permanent, and are prepared to discard the original design. This approach will only lead the original to become a symbol of what your community is not. If you say "the original rainbow flag is used by terfs and exclusionists" then it only becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Besides, corporates have latched onto the triangle pride flag much more quickly. The central station in my city for instance currently has two of these abominations, each with the logo of the train company in big white letters across the middle. Not to mention the hundreds of corporates who already use it on their social media for Pride Month.
@@smpmuzpid The equivalent of that would be to use the separate LGBT rainbow 🏳️🌈 and trans 🏳️⚧️ flags. No need to combine them both into a single design since the former is already inclusive of the latter. It would be like having a flag to mean “USA but inclusive of Texas!” and every state having to fly it.
(8:00) Very good point. As a European/Swede myself; looking at USA; they're obsessed with their flag. It appears everywhere. Here in Europe, you'll mostly only see the flag on official buildings, and mostly used only on national flag days. - It's also interesting seeing US media, where the flag is also used to fill out some blank space or background. The elements of stripes and stars with red white and blue colours are also often a theme. So with one random photo or screencap from USA, and you're likely be able to see a random flag.
Do you think flags might be used more prominently in larger countries? They need this official identity to avoid secession and discourage regional identity. The EU is using the EU flag pretty aggressively.
@@Humanophage National flags in Europe have a distinct political intention when their use is pushed. It's mostly coming from their appropriation from the farther right wing nationalist angle, and it drives anyone left of these ideologies (even when in the right politically) to shy away from the idea of comfortably using the flag.
I would not use the word obsessed. It's patriotic yes but it it's also used as a just a pattern decoration on items from clothes to clocks like polka dots. Plus a big flag over businesses makes them noticable in cities where signs can only be so high. I see it more like a mascot type thing. We also use flags to signal shared sorrow over death. You don't know how many times I've seen a flag half mast and googled to see what tragedy/politician/national treasure died. Flying a flag of any sort here is very popular. Not just our flag. From state flags to the LGBTQ one to one supporting breast cancer awareness. Flags are not a political thing here. They are an outward statement what we like. One my flagpole I have an American one, a gay pride one and I've been thinking about getting some to hang for different months to honer native Americans and such.
Thats because in the US, the flag is used litterally for the Aesthetic. Theres no other reason. Stop overthinking it. It looks sick. Im canadian, and I put the US flag on my minecraft base just cus it looks cooler in minecraft since u cant make a maple leaf with minecraft banners. Also thats why Americans in video games would have canadian skins aswell, cus the maple leaf looks sick if its blacked out and put on a tank or a gun. Thats litterally it. Like idk why yall overthink it so much.
List of JJ's obsessions at the beginning, for those who couldn't read it: 1. Annexation 2. Jimmy John's 3. Flags 4. Nintendo 5. Middle Class 6. Being Gay 7. Republicanism 8. Stephen Harper 9. Baby Books 10: Noodles 11: Pepsipus 12: Brains in Jars. I think we can all relate.
Many of these criticisms could also apply to national anthems imo. I've seen countless videos labeling songs popular at that time to be the anthem. For example several videos seem to claim that Hail Columbia was the anthem of the USA before the current anthem we all know. Of course this is not true as the USA had no anthem until the 1930's. National anthems themselves are, like flags, a recent development.
I find this especially interesting when you look at the US's anthem and their use, like you hear it at every sports game and it's extremely widely used. But when you watch an international soccer game, while the other country's fans sing their anthem with their whole heart, the US players stay pretty much silent, as do the fans.
I think you have a poor understanding of what a Nazi is. I'm not much of a monarchist either, I just have parents from Kaliningrad, and am possibly slightly related to German monarchy
One of my pet peeves with flags is how people think that every colour, every pattern, every stripe everything in any flag is meant to represent something and if it does, they always have the same meaning.
tangentially related "flags are not the necessarily the best symbol in-and-of-itself": my biggest flag hot take is that I am A-Ok with seals on flags. I think the 'minimalist school of flag design rules has lead to a lot of samey flags. great seals on a beautiful colored field can look pretty good
Yeah, like how many average people can tell apart all the flags with 3 stripes of red, white, and blue on them? Lol. Also, I remember being a kid (probably over 25 years ago now) and having an assignment to make a flag from a country where I have ethnic heritage. I chose Poland, and agonized for hours over making that eagle that used to be in the middle of it. Now it's just a red stripe and a white stripe. It's not nearly as cool or distinctive.
I personally like a compromise. I like flag designs that are instantly recognizable from a distance. Some of my favorites are the American, Canadian, British, and Japanese flags for having strong, instantly-recognizable designs. Meanwhile, tricolors are boring and generic, especially because so many countries literally just copy the French colors of red, white, and blue. The issue with seals, though, is that even if they're unique up-close, from a distance the details are lost and you just get a circle on a solid-color banner.
09:17 that’s definitely a thing in Sweden if you were seen weaving the Swedish flag singing the anthem and saying how much you love Sweden most people would think you’re a nationalist and stay away from you but if you would do this while watching football or during the Euros nobody should think you are weird and just think you are another football fan
@@lawden210 The only people I've ever met who did were either a) elderly people who grew up with parents that instilled them with a respect for the monarchy that still held political power within their lifetime or b) people who treats said picture as an ironic joke (and all of the ones I've met had an entire small room or alcove decorated with monarchical memorabilia). So to me it'd just come of as mildly kitschy, and certainly less of a concern than people who deck their home with an excessive amount of flags.
This is the same in Finland too. Excessive use of the flag is only for sports events. Only people that use the flag outside of some patriotic holiday here is a nationalist and they are usually trying to fearmonger about something.
I mean, maybe? But that's only for waving the flag with your hand, on flagpoles it's a different story, Swedish flags or variants of it on flagpoles is extremely common here, just go to the nearest villa suburb, you'll see a flag in no time.
I like point #3. I remember I told a British friend I would hang a Union Jack out my window to help him find my residence room. When he got there he gave me this long, tedious lecture about how I shouldn't wave his flag around because it's a sign of imperialism, racism, colonialism, etc. Funny, I am the brown Canadian being lectured by a white Brit about that.
There’s a giant Canadian flag hanging on the front of Ottawa City Hall. When my Korean and Japanese friends saw it, they both commented on how you wouldn’t see that kind of thing in their own countries unless it’s for hyper nationalistic reasons. They both liked the Canadian flag being there and found it amusingly Canadian.
yeah too many dumb people worrying & Talking about "Nationalism" I did a video on that topic. im an American & I have many Flags including Canada, & Japan.
@beginning of the end It's not so much the number of flags, bur rather that one HUGE flag covering the front of the building would give a sense of unease in their own countries.
I think if you try to literally represent diverse communities in a flag, you’re only going to end up with even less inclusivity, because then suddenly every other minor community will say, “what about us?”, thereby feeling even more ignored.
Thats why i think a symbol of inclusion, the rainbow or the flag of country that holds personal freedom in high regard, is way more meaningfulls then a group collection sheet. It celebrates the concept of acceptence no matter what situation it's used in
One sticking point I have about flags is that modern designers treat the "five rules of flag design" or whatever they're called like a religion. They're decent guidelines, but if you're too strict with them everything ends up looking really samey and sanitized. Also are you still doing Flag Mysteries? Because there's one that's been bugging me for weeks and I'd love to email it to you.
I agree, especially the rule that there can only be a few colors. Of course most look better with fewer colors, but many have more than 3 and really look nice with them.
Yes I can see why some people don't like coat of arms and all but I feel they give a unique feel however I would like if coat of arms are added to be the center point of the flag
I feel like adding colors and symbols to the rainbow flag is a dangerous trend, because then if someone chooses to use the original flag, that might be interpreted as them intentionally excluding some groups
One thing I liked about the Pride flag was the simplicity of it's all inclusiveness. The colors do have their official meanings. But the overarching theme was that the metaphorical spectrum of humanity being represented as part of the same fabric. At worst, it almost feels exclusionary to single out particular people from that spectrum. At best, they clutter up the flag to represent what was always part of it.
For Me personally as someome form the LGBTQ community. I wish instead or the triangle and the gradient and the umbrella they keep it how it is, I'm not saying races are apart of the LGBTQ but being different skin colours should have it's own pride flag for darker skin at the bottom and lighter skin at the top to talk about how light travels or whateber Also I feel like the umbrella will make homophobes talk about how We spread HIV and STDs and how sex workers don't use safe sex and condoms and I feel like personally We should make sex in general a seperate pride flag cause the pride flag is to do with sexuality and not just ohhhhh gays Fuck all the time and don't do anything else kind of thing Plus I rather design the pride flag as a rainbow style instead of a rectangle to show how equal but not straight design and maybe have 6 skin coloured strips hanging onto the rainbow like how cheer leaders have 6 ribbons on each hair style or whatever and under there there's a countries flag and a green ribbon for mental health, showing how a country has both hospitals ans therapy hospitals to treat physical and mental trauma I'm shit at describing and understanding and English so don't attack Me because something triggered you, also thid is My own opinion, I can't send a pic to exsplain what I'm explaining but just try use your imagination
@@NaughtyNovaroo69 only thing I had an issue with you bringing up was the race thing. I don’t know if you made a mistake, but the normal rainbow flag should cover all races, it shouldn’t be altered because “oh this person is a different race, have this darker rainbow flag. Oh you have a lighter skin color, take this pastel rainbow pride flag” That just comes off as racist. Just the normal rainbow flag does it’s job. I agree with all your other points. A flag should be a sort of umbrella symbol that covers all people that identify with that flag.
The "pride" flag is a rainbow flag, which people continue to wrongly attribute to the LGB community. Rainbows belong to everyone, and are most often associated with children. If the LGB community wants their own flag, they should design one.
As a real coin-lover, I think the discussion about other symbols/shorthand for countries outside of flags is interesting. Predecimal Australian pennies had a kangaroo on them, pre-Euro German marks had the Imperial eagle on them and French francs had the Liberty cap on them. I think even current Egyptian pounds have the Sphinx on them. Coins (particularly IMO older coins) often show a country’s own cultural items and history - which I enjoy, and miss a bit with modern Euros.
Well euro coins let countries put whatever they want on one side. I think the problem is that some eurozone countries 1) only one design for every denomination 2) use boring designs. Not to brag, but the Italian euros have: the colusseum, other 2 iconic buildings, the paintingof Venus by Botticelli, 2 iconic statues, the vitruvian man and Dante Alighieri. If these are not good Italian symbols, I don't know what is. Not to mention the commemorative 2 euro coins!
@@sig_pagot Yes and amen! They can definitely be excellent. I’m actually in the UK so usually only see Irish and German Euros for some reason - I look forward to seeing the Italian ones now!
I gotta brag about our Canadian coins a bit, all but one of our standard coins have recognizable Canadian animals on them (Beaver, Caribou, Loon, and Polar Bear), and the penny had the maple leaf on it, all easily identifiable as Canadian symobols. The only one I have a problem with is the dime, which has The Bluenose on it, something most foreigners and I imagine most Canadians don’t really know/identify with
Isn't the whole point of the "rainbow" demonstrating the vast spectrum of experience and identity? Adding all these specific asterisks not only means a designer disaster but somewhat detracts from the symbolism of the original I think.
the problem with adding more is that they're gonna piss someone off eventually, no matter how hard they try, or eventually end up with a mess of color that looks nothing like the original
Adding the different colors in the rainbow (you know the trans flag and the rainbow with those black and brown colors) IS going to exclude ALOT OF PEOPLE no matter the present or future people that are being offended
I’m from alaska, and our state flag is probably one of my favorite flags personally (slightly bias) - I think it does a really amazing job of representing all Alaskans. It’s beautiful in its simplicity, with just the Big Dipper constellation on a navy background. The North Star is also included, which connects such a diverse and large state so easily (because we can all see the North Star, no matter where in the state - it’s only visible in the northern hemisphere, and we are the most northern state). Also, the flag was designed through a Children’s art contest, and the winner was Benny Benson, a twelve(ish?) native boy who came up with the design, which makes it feel very inclusive to me and very representative of our indigenous people :)
In Ireland, if someone flies the flag of the Republic of Ireland outside their house like in the US for example, it’s thought of as having ties with anti-unionist or IRA ideals, and flaunting these ideals is really frowned upon, and the same goes for the Union Jack, although not as common.
In Ireland, yes, the tricolour is somewhat associated with republican or nationalist political positions (these are not like the US use of those terms) and those who put a lot of effort into flying it are likely to be assumed to be such. It is far more the case in Northern Ireland, where both the tricolour and Union Jack are used as symbols to declare which side of the divide one sits on. I'd say that the Union Jack is much more prevalent there, but that is just my experience, and it and the oppression and aggressive hostility to people like me (being Irish) that it represents in this context is one reason I don't like to see the Union Jack in general. It's one reason why I would be very sensitive in general with symbols such as these, as they often represent far more than is understood by most people. That's why, whatever one personally thinks of Sir John A Macdonald (first Canadian PM and problematic figure re how he treated the indigenous peoples of Canada), recognising that his statue will often legitimately represent something very different to others is key. The Irish tricolour is actually intended to represent peace and harmony between the Irish Nationalists/Republicans (green) and British Unionists/Loyalists (orange) on the island of Ireland. Sadly this imagery is rarely what is felt by the Unionists, but that was its original intent and hopefully someday it will fulfil that, even if the island remains divided.
@@sodinc yeah I totally get it. Honestly, most of Europe, for example, could revive old traditional costumes and headdresses if there was interest in doing it. It's not that they don't exist, but they're not part of the iconography of our countries anymore (this doesn't always apply obviously). I don't know what was the traditional costumes of my region and I think 99% of the population doesn't know either.
3:53 Ireland is a perfect example. When I think of Good ole Erin‘s isle, I don’t picture green, white, and orange columns, I think of that pretty, timeless, cultural harp.
Indian flags can be used by people but there are various rules ,for eg. 1. No one can write on the flag 2. Flag should only be displayed from sunrise to sunset 3. If you want to dispose the flag,you can only bury or burn the flag that too with respect.
@@coupledyetivonvanderburg5385 There's all sorts of ways we use the flag despite the flag code, that are completely normalized, and are part of manufactured products. Yet somehow when someone burns a flag in protest as a form of symbolic speech, people want laws and amendments against flag desecration.
@@carultch I've always found the idea that people want to lock up or commit acts of violence against other Americans using their freedom of expression to protest in that way, to be one of the least American things I can think of.
With regard to the different flag cultures: Here in Finland, there are 'flag days,' basically all manner of national holidays both minor and major, on which the flag is flown all over the place. Outside of these days, the flag is flown absolutely nowhere. I quite like it - as a foreigner living here, I'll think "oh, I wonder what day it is" when I see a bunch of Finnish flags flying. It also feels like the Finns can save up their patriotism and let it out in bursts on the flag days, which is nice. They also have those fun student caps, which people wear on Finnish Independence Day. My Finnish girlfriend, normally very far from a nationalist, will get positively belligerent and sing Finlandia while crying about imagery of Finnish forests.
Same here in Australia. I can count the number of Australian flags I’ve seen in real life on one hand. It’s literally just school assemblies, Anzac Day, and maybe you might see one on the town hall.
@@GH-oi2jf well, obviously at government buildings such as the parliament and the president's "castle" as it's called. but no homes or businesses or schools or tax offices or anything fly flags here outside of the liputuspäivä
Huh interesting, here flag culture allows for full time flying of the flag at almost all times, but it is only flown by Government and educational institutions afair (cut me some slack I've been stuck at home for like a year and a half at this point).
In South Africa, white nationalists like to wave the old Apartheid flag. Besides representing an ugly time period, I just want to say that the Apartheid era flag is aesthetically ugly as sin. The modern SA flag is exceptionally beautiful. The design is extremely distinctive and unique, without being jarring or out of place. You can tell that a lot of passion went into the design.
It is one of the best flags in the world, I agree. A fantastic mix of color and design. I also don't know what, if anything it specifically represents, just because it functions so well as a symbol of "South Africa," period.
As a Spaniard with German friends.... Yeah, no flags for us. Please. Unless it's football. But as a basque person as well... The ikurriña (basque flag) is very important to me because of its history and the oppression we went through during the dictatorship
I understand you guys, recently the Brazil flag has been taken as a symbol of the latest president (I'm not gonna get into specifics, but he wasn't a really nice person nor a very competent ruler for this time period) We use our flag proudly in the soccer fields, but if you put it in your car or in your house, you are basically saying "I'm a right wing extremist who thinks we should turn Brazil into a dictatorship led by Bolsonaro" ... Also he turned the celebration of 200 years of independence into a political campaign for himself 😞... Man I'm so glad he wasn't reelected
As a Belgian, I get peeved whenever I hear outsiders call us "Germany" or "your flag looks like the German flag" Because Belgium while existing not as long as Germany, always had the Black, Yellow, and Red 'Tricolor', since it's foundation in 1830, at least 16 years ahead of when Germany made it's first draft of the three stripes in the same color that they use today. Also let's not forget in that time Germany switched flags like 3 times... from the Prussian Empire, to the German Empire, to the 3rd Reich, and now back to the horizontal three stripes they have today.
Yea it just comes down to that fact that we were louder and more dramatic, I think. Makes us more memorable in a world where people are bad at geography in general. It’s nuts to me, I live in america now, and people can tell me what day which general did what in World War 2, but they didn’t know germany was split into east and west after the war, for example. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ people are dumb. At least there are only two of us, unlike the red white and blue club.
well as an American Smart American who studies Flags I understand BUT it's just that not many other people know about Flags. Ill be doing a subdivision Flags of Belgium I just did one for Spain Flags will upload that sometime soon. I do have some Flag related videos up also.
Venezuelan revolutionary Francisco de Miranda also designed a black-red-yellow horizontal tricolor flag in 1806, intended to be the banner of the new Venezuelan Army he wanted to form. It was supposed to represent the three main racial groups of the country: black people, white people and pardos (triracials). It is often depicted in history books as a early proposal for Venezuela's flag, even though it was projected as an exclusively military symbol (Miranda had already designed a different horizontal tricolor flag which included the yellow, blue and red that would eventually become [albeit with a different pattern] the first official Venezuelan flag in 1811, and then as a result of the subsequent developments of the War of Independence and Miranda's/Bolívar's unification project also the flag of [Gran] Colombia and the States that emerged from it's dissolution). Edit: Forgot to mention that the flag of modern day Miranda State pays homage to this seminal design. As a piece of extra flag trivia, there had been a previous revolutionary attempt in 1797 known as the Gual and España Conspiracy, which was discovered and crushed before its namesake leaders could really do anything other than, well, conspire. They had also took the time to design their own flag for the new, independent country they wanted Venezuela to become (which also contained multicolored stripes representing different racial groups, as well as the human-faced sun symbol of later Southern Cone fame). This flag was never actually flown as far as I know; as I mentioned earlier, they were caught before the actual coup d'etat could take place. But it was adopted as the modern day flag of Vargas State, in which the city of La Guaira, where they had intended the revolution to take place; is located.
belgium as a country has existed longer than Germany as a country has existed. Prussia in 1830 was not yet in 1830 Germany by another name. If we are going for the HRE well, Belgium Austria and Czech Rep were all in that too.
Its funny how flag laws exist, in my native Costa Rica when José María Castro Madriz approved the modern Costa Rican flag design in 1848 he issued rules that only government buildings and places could have the flag with the coat of arms and citizens were only allowed to use the flag with no coat of arms 🇨🇷 however this failed and no one followed this rule displaying both versions.
@@FroyourHistory It's not that they wanted to restrict national pride it's that they wanted a system where the coat of arms was the official government symbol and the people had the regular flag to use however it failed in the long run it was just too widespread to enforce Ironically most border security/police or government workers often have the flag with no coat of arms on their outfit
@@FroyourHistory It was a really dumb law which actually come to think of it might still be in effect de facto but it was just so hard and unrealistic to enforce that there was no way it was ever going to be a thing
3:28 Correction, most of the time, in the lack of an official flag, the standard polandball rule is to substitute a seal or symbol for the flag (Also often used are battle standards), As an example, the Ming dynasty is usual represented with the Chinese character for Ming (明) and that is usually put on to the standard yellow 1ball that represents prehistoric or indigenous flagless populations of Paleosiberian, Altaic, Sino-Tibetan, Tai-Kadai, and Dené-Yeniseian people.
@@NACHOXXX4 not really, he removed his old far right conspiracy videos and has tried to rebrand himself, watch his debate with vaush and others he is still crazy
(4:00) Sweden can be represented by three crowns; two side by side and one below in centre. This symbol is placed on the top of the Stockholm city hall; it's the main symbol on the national hockey team. - Since Windows refuse to add flags for some reason (probably because it needs compatibility with black and white emojis), they could add the three crowns as the symbol for Sweden as a fallback, since it's still distinct in black-and-white.
I like the Mongolic flags, they have a certain colors and symbols that say “We’re related” like the Inner mongols, Mongolia and buryat all using the same symbol while some still use the combination of yellow and blue, like cultural birth marks with the sky, sun and moon.
Again this is assuming that there even is a flag for Inner Mongolia/Buryat/other Mongolic cultures. Sure the polandball community created a bunch of anachronistic flags to represent all of them, but traditionally Mongolic cultures used a diverse set of _tugs_ to represent their tribes and cultures instead of flags. The new flags are "cultural" bc they're just slapping already significant symbols onto a bedsheet, not because they've had any particular history or significance to Mongolic peoples in general.
I don't like how people feel super inclined to make their personal flags and flag redesigns as simple and more notably symmetrical as possible. Sure it makes a flag look more pleasing, but it always ends up with "funny symbol in middle" or mabey some equal strips. And I also feel that people are very obsessed with having a unique symbol in some way on their flag. The are always like, "the stars are kinda boring" or "why can't you throw the 'something' in the middle?"
I personally don’t see a problem with people giving nations that didn’t have flags newly made flags.I mean as long as they don’t claim it’s always been there flag who cares.It’s fun to give ancient nations banners plus vexolgy is a cool thing in general and a lot of people have fun with it
@@JJMcCullough countryballs can't be anything OTHER than flags jj. It's like cartoons wearing gloves. Mice don't wear gloves but Mickey mouse did. We could possibly have the emblem or symbol or whatever the historical kingdoms had on the countryballs, but countryballs for those states are mostly their seal/emblem on a field of a stereotypical colour of that state
@@JJMcCullough Countryballs are a good way to turn complex civilizations into characters with emotions so they're easier to digest for a non historian. Obviously they're ahistorical, but that's part of the fun. It's mostly memes anyway.
The most common question I got aw a tour guide in San Francisco was "how long until we get to the Bridge?" #2 was "Is it a holiday? Why so many flags?" I hadn't realized that just flying national flags outside public building isn't a worldwide phenomenon.
Turkey's flag has some kind of sacredness here in Turkey ,not in a religious sense, but still Turkish people love it almost religiously, for example you can't put it on the ground, which is seens as a disrespectful thing to do. Also there is a saying "Bayrak götte değil, gökte olur", "Flag shouldn't be on an ass, but in the skies" referring to people of countries like US using their flag on things like bikini, underwear, etc. Also Turkish flag being in a bad form (like torn apart or burnt) is illegal and you can't use the flag for the profit of a company ,like using it as a logo Also a little fun fact: Star and crescent we see on the flags of many countries is actually not an Islamic symbol, but a symbol used by the Ottomans on various banners, they *officially* adopted it in 1844 and many other Muslim nations adopted it, because it was on the flag of their caliphs
@@berylliosis5250 It's technically illegal, actually, since the Flag Code was established by Congress as law... but Flag Code violations have no (legal) penalty, except, iirc, in the UCMJ (the additional legal code and system the military operates under).
@@30denarii But it's NOT illegal to use a flag pattern for clothing. It's illegal to cut up a flag and create clothes, but just printing the pattern onto fabric with the sole intent of being clothing is perfectly fine
The crescent and star previously was used as a heraldic symbol for Byzantium. The star came to represent the Virgin Mary and the imagery of the crescent comes from the Book of Revelation in the Bible, of a Virgin standing on a crescent moon. But really the imagery predates Christianity and was the symbol for the Greek colony of Byzantium back in around 300BC And the crescent and star symbols go back even further back into the Bronze age
I think a lot of modern flag designers try to make their flags using a lot of the same design rules one would use when creating a company logo, which ends up giving them a more dull or off feel
As a moderator and "officer" of the British Ensign Club, a frequent problem we face is despite being a vexillological society dedicated to the rather quirky system of flags used by the British Empire and those countries which have maintained the Union Jack ensign system since decolonisation, our groups is often seen as a discussion place for the policies of Empire itself. Whilst perhaps an understanding of British Rule in India can impact your choice on where to display British historical flags, for instance it would be generally distasteful to have a flag of the Viceroy fly over the site of a massacre, the actual nature of British rule is largely irrelevant to commenting on the design, manufacture and history of these flags themselves. Similarly, since the Liberal Party removed the Red Duster from Canada, there are often posts that are little more than criticisms of Trudeau with next to no relationship to the Great Canadian Flag Debate. Nonetheless, our group is still a great place for finding scans of old atlases of empire, containing graphics of flags that may only ever have existed in theory (say the blue ensign of Quebec whose actual use is doubted), and flag related artefacts of the imperial era (for instance WWII patriotic Canadian pins with the Union Jack as the main symbol)
Finally someone acknowledging the existence of Axis & Allies. It's a great board game if you have the time to play it, and the patience to learn its mechanics.
I got excited when JJ mentioned Lithuania, i don't know if i should feel happy or sad about the fact i got excited when someone just mentions the country i'm from
9:27 As a Indian I never knew that and I remember getting our national flag ( The Tricolour ) on all national holidays to our schools or other institutions. Also national flag is a very important thing to our sports enthusiasts, just look at the Test cricket world cup currently going on in England.
@@JJMcCullough the thing is the day after national holidays cheap, plastic flags always littered public areas, that's what the government had concerns about, though we do have laws about large flags
I've heard a few different opinions on the progress pride flag and I think people should use whichever flag they prefer. The rainbow pride flag and the progress pride flag both represent the same community, the progress one just puts emphasis on the black and trans parts of the community. I personally think the progress pride flag has a better design, although the one shown in this video is much more cluttered then most other versions of the progress pride flag. But that doesn't mean the other one is incorrect or exclusionary. The progress pride flag isn't suggesting that black and trans people are separate from the rest of the community, and the rainbow flag isn't excluding the black and trans parts of the LGBTQ community.
5:09 In 1930, it was the Weimer Republic in charge of Germany, not the Third Reich. So the German Flag in 1980 was the same as the German Flag in 1930.
To be honest, us Polandball comic makers just want to use a symbol for a character so people will know which country the character is attempting to satirise. (sorry I don't speak fluent English)
I've watched Countryballs Explained video about the history of China and I've never assumed the symbols he used to represent the dynasties were their respectives flags.
As someone who has been interested in flags for about 40 years now, and as such been interested in vexillology for quite a while as well, this is one of the few videos I agree with every single word you said in the video. (Considering our differences too (you’re conservative, I’m liberal, you’re gay, I’m straight, you’re an unabashed Americaphile, I take a much more nuanced look at our southern neighbour) that’s saying something - though I almost always agree with most of your videos’ content as well). As a serious anthematologist as well (and I know you have more than a passing interest in anthems) I can also say that what you’ve said in this video applies to anthems. Thank you JJ for my new favourite video of yours and one I know I’ll share often. (Though probably not as much as your “milk bag lie” one, I swear every American I meet still believes this lie! They truly are a naive and trusting bunch)
As an Irish person, I've always felt more power and meaning in the symbols of the harp (including the old flag with a harp) and the shamrock as symbols of Irish identity. The tricolour feels somehow artificial, not connected to the long rich history of this island it its peoples, and a thing waved mostly at soccer matches (which just happened to a world I didn't grow up in), not our native sports.
As mentioned in a particularly controversial JJ video, another sort of flag culture is Northern Ireland (and probably others like it) where flags are everywhere but not in a casual sense - the identify Irish Republican communities and British Unionist communities. And it's not just the flags of those two countries, for example some members of the Irish and British communities use the Palestinian and Israeli flags respectively.
@@DouglasEdward84 Same responses from the Quebecois on his videos when he criticizes them in any way shape or form. It's likely just a cultural residue that stems from an underlying insecurity that originates from actually being oppressed historically. Thus, they're hypersensitive about their culture in the modern age since it was constantly berated in one form or another in the past. I'm not saying that's a reason to be hypersensitive to either objective or benign criticism, just a reason for why they are.
I used to be quite the flag nerd when I was young. I used to memorize all the flags of the world. I got to a point where if somebody asked me what the flag of an obscure country looks like (e.g. Malawi), I would tell them exactly down to the position of the symbols and the colours. I still remember most of the flags that I memorized, with the only non-country being the British island territory of Niue. That flag has a very unique Union Jack ensign!
The greatest flag design I think is of the EU. It was a flag that symbolized every EU member country without being too cluttered or making one appear better than the other. I just wish that the LGBTQ+ community also consider this design philosophy because really it is not a visually pleasing design and frankly I think, is an insult to the the beautiful people that are part of that community.
I think what makes it different at sports events is that the flag represents your *team*. Using it excessively outside of that context, holidays or other celebrations is seen as making a statement. Even outside of former fascist dictatorships, extreme nationalism is viewed with suspicion by a lot of Europeans, especially in the north and west.
I wouldn't say that the notion that "all nations had a flag" is very representative of those in the Countryball scene. Countryballs can only work with the visual medium of flags, and even though old age empires didn't really have flags, we still give them flags just so we can know what empire or nation we're drawing and looking at. If we didn't do this, We'd have to draw a blank ball and write the empire's name underneath which isn't much fun. The so-called "flag" of the Roman Empire or Mongol Dynasty just lets us know what we're looking at.
@@5dollarnote I just don’t like this reductive idea of stereotyping countries in this broad way. I think it fosters division between people. We should want to work together not fetishize the idea that we’re these weird things in perpetuate conflict with each other and defined by our differences.
@@JJMcCullough Polandball is not high brow by any means; that's not its function. I don't think it inherently fosters division but it can be used that way. I also wouldn't call it fetishization to acknowledge that all of human history has been different groups in conflicts and cooperation at any given point.
11:40 The UK flag is quite intentionally a literal representation of the various countries - it is a combination of St Patrick's, St Andrew's and St George's Crosses. Putting St David's Cross in there just makes sense.
To be fair, when it comes to countryballs they kinda need to use flags to represent the characters Although the subreddit does acknowledge that most ancient civilizations didn't have flags and recommends just using the modern equivalent one in their place
I mean, there were flags in ancient Rome, they just weren't used as a symbol of national identity. Flags were only used in war in order to show other armies just who they were messing with. A flag doesn't have to be a universally recognizable symbol. It's just a simple logo in the form of a colored piece of cloth.
@@JJMcCullough I'm not Czech but I certainly know of its existence. It just fits into a category of a more exotic country in Europe that not many people out of the geography fan base would know about, at least in my mind. Also, your point later in the video about the French and UK flags being abstract rather than having to represent everyone etc is so true. :)
I'm originally Czech, and I've generally disliked the flag since it uses the same tricolour pattern as the French, Dutch, and American ones. Until Communism every revolutionary or independence movement seemed to adopt the Republican French flag colours. The old flag of the Kingdom of Bohemia looked exactly like the modern Polish flag, so that one would be useless too and wouldn't "acknowledge" Moravia as a component, so can't use that one either. Really we should just go back to using the Bohemian lion and try to market that as the recognizable symbol much like the Egyptians have the pyramids or the French have the Eiffel tower as visual short hands.
@@Vlasov45 It is more likely that the Czech flag was inspired by the pan-slavic flag, designed at a congress in Prague in 1848. Most slavic countries have those same colours and it's bloody annoying.
I like using flags as a symbol to represent countries. Flags are standardized to where one flag corresponds to one country. However, a myriad of symbols could be used to represent a nation - for China, there is one flag, but if you choose a symbol, you could choose from many options-the Great Wall, giant pandas, the Yellow River, a pagoda, etc. The same goes for symbols to country - the mountains used to represent Switzerland in the ad you showed could just as easily represent many other mountainous countries, where as the Swiss flag represents only Switzerland.
As someone who’s gay myself, I couldn’t agree more about the LGBT+ flag. I feel like in an effort to be as inclusive as possible, the flag loses its meaning with every inclusion of an identity. I don’t mean to be contrary, but I’m not sure I understand why sex workers and racial minorities have been added to the flag. Belonging to those groups does not necessarily make someone LGBT+. Similarly, I’ve seen this with allies as well. We absolutely should stand in solidarity with these people, but in my opinion, it’s actually kind of insulting to all of us. Our experiences are all so different; lumping us all together makes it seem like it’s become the “minority” or “marginalized” flag, and I see it as more of a form of erasure.
It’s political. Here in the states (where most of the pride flag stuff starts) one political party has decided to be the catch-all party for “marginalized people.” But marginalized people don’t really have the same political priorities and needs. The Democrats try to represent Ethnic, Religious, and Sexual minorities. As well as working class people and environmentalists. All without offending the sensibilities of the university liberals and tech/financial industries. It a coalition that is really only held together by a mutual distaste for the other party. One solution is to try to artificially generate solidarity between groups that don’t have a whole lot in common. The Palestinian regime is no ally to the queer community, but at our pride events, you’ll see Palestinian flags because we’re easier to keep together as a coalition if our top priority is “solidarity” rather than tangible political objectives. Lockheed Martin exists to prolong and profiteer off of war. But they put in a couple diversity initiatives and the Human Rights Campaign gives them a perfect score as a good place for queer folks to work. Democrats have found that virtue signaling keeps people coming to the ballot boxes better than passing real policies because any tangible thing they could do would threaten some part of their unwieldy and precarious coalition.
are you choosing to be dense? nobody uses the pride flag in this video. racial minorities should be represented in the flag. if you don’t know why that’s on you to educate yourself on it.
@@arionnawarren9989 Oh boy, my favorite kind of performative outrage. Umm, first of all, the flag, or some variant of it, kind of does appear… right at 10:41… so, that time stamp is there just in case you missed it. My point was, if you had read my comment in full, was that lumping all these groups together does not serve any of us. Being a racial minority or sex worker does not necessarily make someone lgbt and vice versa. The impression I get from this flag is that it’s a lazy way to put us all together in one group, as though because we’re all minorities, we all are one homogenous group, and to me it seems insulting to ALL of us. It feels forced and political, as though we’re all being rallied to fight under one banner. But our experiences and goals might not necessarily align, which is counterproductive. I would be interested in hearing why you feel the way you do.
@@typ0z I didn’t miss it, the flag in the video doesn’t represent the true modern pride flag. Search it up if you need to. Your point makes no sense, obviously it’s talking about people who are in these groups and apart of the community. The flag is INCLUDING racial minorities and sex workers(not that i agree with adding sex workers). Saying that including racial minorities, which have made a huge difference in the community, is the actual insulting. Many POC(like myself) have felt more included with the proper modern pride flag. It may be forced and political but that doesn’t necessarily make it wrong, it’s helping POC in the community. It’s showing our community is more than what we see on TV.
I love flags to represent countries but without doubt they are not the only symbol and I agree a lot with you that a flag shouldn't be so strict about a place culture but rather just a symbol that unites the people. Very "inclusive" flags are often very ugly, very complex to represent (and thus many times excluded), and they still aren't "inclusive" enough if you want to be literal.
Adding more and more things to the pride flag is like adding more types of leaves to the Canadian flag, just because you want people to know that maple trees aren't the only trees that exist in Canada.
Its strange. When I see an updated pride flag I roll my eyes in a way I don't when I see the usual flag. My support for the message is even diminished (specifically my reaction to the imagery/ the feelings the imagery evokes in me.) I feel that a literal interpretation of flag representation is deconstructive and can realistically only alienate people in a way that an abstract symbol(s) wouldn't. Because there are an infinite number of ways which to divide people. Which doesn't make sense, as that is the opposite of what a flag is meant to be.
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
I don't know why, but somehow "being a RUclipsr stumbling into a flag identity" is something I can somehow relate to...
You still on your road trip?
Hello
*stumbling into a distinct taste for sauerkraut
Get back to editing or driving you Danish knave
okay now go east
The way the pride flag keeps needing to be updated goes against the whole point of it. It’s a rainbow it’s abstract to begin with, therefore representing all people. By sticking on specific references on it, you’re inevitably going to exclude someone and it’ll be out of date soon. Stick to the simple rainbow and this is all avoided.
I'm so glad I'm not the only one who thinks this.
@DarkErminia I don't know, I feel the people who are concerned about the Pride Flag and the American flag are more than likely two different groups. I'm Bi, American, and also black. I don't have love for the American flag, but I don't get too in arms about changes to the Pride flag.
This is exactly why we have a flag that lasted for 40 years now need to be updated 5 times in less than 10 years. Once you start down this path, there's no way to refuse anyone from demanding an alteration without being a hypocrite.
@sdrawkcabUK That reminds me of how it's now considered transphobic to use the all pink lesbian flag instead of the "correct" flag when the orange flag is only like three years old and the all pink one (minus the lipstick) isn't even transphobic to begin with. Like I've seen lesbians be harassed by non-lesbians for it.
I blame the US flag culture as the source of this nonsense.
The addition of stars to the current ridiculous 50 to the flag sets the precedent for changing the flag around every time you want someone welcomed into the group.
Honestly I kind of agree with the abstract approach, sometimes the more you include the more you might also exclude
(The EU flag might be a good example since its just 12 stars on a blue background to represent Europe, at least a lot better than the original proposed design ever could)
Hello
The original one was just horrendous!
Hopefully this video gets some ppl to be okay with (non-US locality flags) flags designs and proposals for places “just because they look cool/good”.
As a European, I honestly don't really like our flag. I use it a lot because European identity means a lot to me, but I do believe in the theory that it was made up with Christianity in mind (blue as a Marian color, and the 12 stars representing the Apostles) which was obviously a bad decision as Europe nowadays is almost entirely secular and many Europeans are irreligious or part of other religions.
The official interpretation on the other hand, is extremely vague and doesn't really make much sense to me.
@@stefanosanastasi99 What was the original flag proposal?
I kinda never know how to feel about the ever-changing 'official' lgbtq+ flags, because the original rainbow one I believe does a fantastic job with already including everyone. It literally has every color.
Still dont understand why its a rainbow. Rainbows are illusions that only appear when humdity/pespective/sun meet crossover
Also science, the great taboo
@@psycholaw4394 I always thought it was a rainbow because rainbows span across every colour, showing the diversity of the flag and how it represents a wide variety of human experiences
6 different colors is a lot for a flag, but the simplicity of it being a rainbow in a line makes it not overly complex. But these other flags that add tons of different colors and shapes makes for a much more complex flag that really is just an eyesore to look at
@@0xt10 no
@@jelllybean17 A rainbow
It's kind if baffling that a flag that is almost literally "all the colours of the rainbow" could possibly be judged as not being inclusive enough.
Because those groups want special treatment.
@@tomfuller4205 I think it’s more that virtue signaling weirdos decided they need to butt in. I don’t know anyone, LGBT or otherwise, who likes the “new” flag. So who came up with it?
There is a joke to be made about said group, but I would rather not be imprisoned, good evening lads
the progress flag is basically exclusively used by pushover liberals who care less about the lgbt community and only want to look good
I actually got banned from a Discord server for saying this lol
"Just because French people come in all different sizes."
Those French flags were golden, man.
pretty sure they were just blue-white-red coloured
@@omargerardolopez3294 I was going to say that! 😋👌
Im just gonna put it here 12:21
The editing & sound effect are just great. I burst out laughting twice in my first watch XD
Their flag should be red, white, and rosé.
In England, flying an England flag (rather than a Union Jack) is sometimes perceived as someone being overly nationalistic and possibly even xenophobic. Unless of course it’s World Cup season and then everyone and their Nan has a England flag up!
Crossover Episode
But why is that? What's wrong with waving a flag? How it's it nationalist to wave a flag? I can understand if it's a flag of a dictatorship but England isn't one
Yeah some people are very stupid, their asinine opinions don't matter.
I mean, flying the Union Flag in England can often have a similar connotation as well. Both Nigel Fromage and Jacob CheeseCock celebrated Brexit with the UK flag instead of the English one in their backgrounds, for example.
In fact, the UK flag is often used in England to promote one more populist message that the English one doesn’t convey, and that is “unity” (read: English superiority) with the other three countries of the UK
they should add a Welsh dragon to the Union Jack cos Dragons are rad
Cdawg va would agree
Found the Cdawg Alt
I'd argue that adding elements to the Union Jack (like the Welsh Dragon) is one of the few 'change the flag' arguments with any traction since it is literally composed of the flags of the other members of the 'United Kingdom'. It seems like it would be like adding a new US state without adding a new star to the US flag.
@@NakAlienEd yep I'm of the same opinion too. the Welsh aren't really potrayed on the flag and I feel like it would be somewhat unifying and it's long overdue
I agree
3:27 I think the Countryball usage is fine. The art style demands some kind of visual symbol for a country and how the symbol was treated back then or even if it's just associated with the country in modern times is not that important for that particular usage.
@@c_mark5622 you mean your mom ?
@@c_mark5622 no u
Yeah, without using flags they just couldn't cover certain things.
@@c_mark5622 chu mean?
The worst part of online flag culture to me would be the treatment of the "Five Principles of Flag Design" as gospel. It leads to a lot of criticism of well-recognizable and meaningful flags as poorly designed for seemingly superficial reasons.
Yes! This is a great pet peeve of mine as well
I personally dislike the rule that a flag has to be simple enough for a child to draw it from memory. Personally, it should that it would be at least recognizable if a child drew it from memory.
I absolutely agree, especially when they are used to judge a flag that has other purposes than representing a country of something like that. It's just silly to use the same metrics for a country's flag and a flag used by a neighbourhood of a small community.
@@coquimapping8680 Yeah, it's not that easy to remember flags that well. Also, flags that are easy to remember are often boring. I think that a flag being recognizable in black and white is cool too (and also helps the color blind a bit) but many simple designs wouldn't pass that. One of the big problems with the "seal on a bedsheet" designs is that they make flags less unique, but really simple flags aren't all that unique either.
That the one complain about this community, especially because i'm a brazilian and pur flag break two rule: it has something Whitten on it and the stars are too hard to anyone draw. Most of the flags i like breaks those two rules
Possible controversial opinion about a flag here:
But I really hate the more modern version of the LGBTQ+ flag, adding tan, black and brown to the flag is really weird to me, as it almost suggests that because of their lack of inclusion on the flag, White, Asian, Indian etc members of the community are less important.
I would have preferred they stuck to just the rainbow one, as it pretty easily conveyed “Diversity” pretty well. the newer one tries to be diverse by being super specific, which doesn’t make any sense.
I agree completely. Once you are being as literal as “the flag must have everybody’s skin tones on it” you’re setting an impossible standard of inclusivity that will never be met.
I get that
it also implies that trans people aren't included under the "original" pride flag
It's because much of the fighting for lgbtq rights was done by trans poc
Also super confused why there is a sex worker umbrella? What does that have to do with pride/LGBT? Like I get that some LGBT people may be sex workers, but doesn't make sense to me as a gay man who is not a sex worker to have "my" pride flag include sex worker references.
I've always liked to use the expression "Expatriotism" to describe the phenomena of emigrants seemingly being more patriotic in their newly settled country than they would be back home
Probably because they CHOSE to live in that place, rather than their true homeland. But, I don't agree with that anyways
@@saulgoodmanKAZAKH I think he meant, being more patriotic towards their original country. In Europe this is fairly common, people originating from Algeria, Morocco, and such, will often wave flags from their origin country in all sorts of contexts (where it has no reason to be waved). For example, during football matches where neither Algeria nor any algerian player is playing. Or after the election of François Hollande in 2012.
The same happens inside countries : in France, people from Brittany (but not living in Brittany) won't shut up about their salted butter and wave "Gwenn-ha-du" flags at all sorts of events, things they would most probably not do "at home".
Maybe it is just a way of sticking out.
@@saulgoodmanKAZAKH You don't understand, we're talking about for example brits emigrating from the UK and immigrating to spain, and the brits becoming way more nationalist for THE UK while living over there. Not being patriotic about Spain. The vast majority of british immigrants living in hot mediterranean countries voted FOR brexit. Seriously. And now it's biting them all on the arse because now those countries like Spain and France have kicked them out and told them they'd be illegal immigrants if they didn't leave and move back to the UK. It's bizarre for a person living somewhere else in the EU, and only being allowed to live there because the UK was in the EU, then voting for the UK to leave the EU so that these immigrants are no longer allowed to live there. Delicious schadenfreude for the smart ones of us in the UK who voted remain. At least we get to see the pain the brexit voters brought on themselves entirely because of their own actions.
@@saulgoodmanKAZAKH a. You misinterpreted the comment
B. I agree with the statement, that i don't have to be proud of nation that i had no say of being born in
@@saulgoodmanKAZAKH this
I'd say the best way of being inclusive is not to include many little details but to use a generic, inoffensive symbol. I think the flags of Japanese prefectures are a great example of this
Yes. Canada’s flag is good too for this reason but I didn’t want to be braggy.
Yeah, if you add symbols for one specific group, you have to add them for all specific groups, else the flag looks like it's specifically excluding them.
The Pride flag is a great example of this failing. The “official” flag stood as it was for, I think, 50 years?
But now in the past 10 years it’s been updated at least 5 times as they added in more stripes and designs to explicitly represent certain groups. And now that they’ve started, it’s difficult to say “no more changes” without coming across as bigoted.
@@JJMcCullough how could I forget
@@anthonydelfino6171 I agree that the pride flag that JJ showed in the video is bad, but I've actually never seen it used outside of the internet. It's always either the rainbow flag or the rainbow flag with the chevron (or the trans flag or the bi flag or whatever, but those are different altogether)
Rome had a "flag", but it wasn't used like we do nowadays. Legion standards were basically the psuedo flag that most citizens held in high regards. That's why the eagle is most associated with Rome for it being a famous/common standard of legions
Standards aren't really flags tho, are they? Plus, any standard of any Roman legion wasn't the flag of Rome more than a US military flag is the flag of the USA. In any case, the point that JJ is trying to adress, i think, is that yes, you can find a symbolic piece of coloured cloth in almost any ancient culture, but associating it with the modern idea of a flag isn't an accurate mental image of the past
@@briandeweyforbes It obviously did not, as the Romans did not have widespread access to lightweight colored cloth and a capacity to mass-produce patterned cloth the way we do today. Even having colored clothes made of soft material in those days was considered a real sign of wealth. Any flag-like things present in Roman society would have been quite rare and expensive items, owned by and for the elite. So if they were venerated, it would have been because they were something impressively rare and highly ceremonial, which is not analogous to flag culture anywhere today.
@@JJMcCullough yeah more like an national emblem
@@sig_pagot Standards pretty much are flags for the ancient world. They are widespread through units across the land, represent their nation's values, and eventually were the predecessors/basis of modern flags. They were also far cheaper and durable to produce than a flags.
In the case of certain nations, such as Lithuania, the standard and coat of arms essentially was the flag just now with a colored background.
It was the solid golden statue of an Eagle, messanger of Jupiter, which was considered the Sacred part of the standard. The bit of cloth below it with the state motto, SPQR (Senatus Populusque Romanum-“The Senate and People of Rome”) was just a bit of cloth and reminder to the Legion as to who they served as far as the Romans were concerned. And the Golden Eagle of the legion was not used in civilian life: too sacred, and legions generally weren’t even allowed within Rome’s official city limits, so neither would their eagle.
The Eagle really was revered tho, as it symbolized Jupiter’s favoritism towards Rome, and desecration of it could not be tolerated. A Legion who lost its Eagle would be decimated-every ‘tent group’ or squad of 8 soldiers (people who did basically everything together, and technically considered a ‘decade’ because of their 2 slaves) would draw lots, and the person who drew the short straw would be required to be beaten to death by the other 7 members of their squad with clubs while their superiors supervised, and if someone was caught having STOLEN the eagle, that now-desecrated idol would be melted down and poured down the offender’s THROAT...and the legion would be decimated for letting it happen.
Despite how liberally the Americans use their flag, they seem surprised when they discover that Scandinavians use flags as birthday and Christmas decorations. Meanwhile, the Scandinavians pretty much only use flags for those occasions.
I used to use the flag toothpicks as toothpicks hopefully that’s not a no no
As an American, where I’d imagine that comes from is the idea of the flag representing both the people of the US and the US as a state. You tend to see the American flag in public contexts (on the news, on businesses or government buildings, out front of people’s houses, on clothing, etc), in that it is meant to be widely seen and represent a celebration or support of the US in general. Having the flag used for something that was a much more personal and private context (like celebrating a specific person’s birthday) would come across as odd since the event wouldn’t be focused on the government or the people of the US in a general sense, but instead on only a single person (unless the person had some connection to the government, like being a politician or in the military).
However like JJ pointed out, each nation or group of people has their own ideas on appropriate flag usage, and it would be interesting to hear about the reasoning behind Scandinavian flag traditions
I don't know if you're from Scandinavia. However, I'm from Sweden and the only memorable case of "public" (non governmental) use of the flag is on busses. I don't think I've ever seen someone use it as Christmas or birthday decorations.
@@philip2205 Yeah I am from Scandinavia. Agree about the buses. But otherwise - are you kidding? So many birthday decorations in shops in Sweden have flags on them. And in Denmark, it's the done thing to have flags at a person's desk/dinner table for their birthday. I've also definitely seen people in Sweden decorate their Christmas trees with flags.
@@skarredcat our national anthem is literally about the flag, it's definitely a kind of umbrella symbol for everything American more so than a lot of countries
They should update the Union Jack because who the hell wouldn’t want a dragon on their flag?
Bhutan is cool because they have a dragon on their flag
People who wants to exclude Wales?
@@erikharaldsson2416 *losers
I think they should’ve just gave Northern Ireland back to Ireland and put the wales dragon on it
Me.
The Welsh suck.
The problem with flags and Countryballs is that Countryballs are just balls with flags on them. There needs to be some sort of distinguishing flag for each ball, otherwise, no one can tell which country it is. So even if there weren't national flags for older countries, something needs to be added.
@Longhorn XII True, Israel is a Cube, Kazakhstan is a brick, an hypothetic 4th German Reich is a rectangle, Chile is sometimes represented like some kind of worm, Singapore and Bermuda are triangles and so on
@@SanGrampsMapping Especially Nepal or Ohio ( i know, Ohio is a state ) they keep the flag design but add teeth to em
@Longhorn XII and some are people. *cough* hetalia *cough*
@@SanGrampsMapping Isn’t the German Empire (2nd reich) a rectangle already?
@@NoName-ig2jb Well, I´ve read in the countryball wiki that it was only for a 4th Reich
This reminds me of the Yiddish flag controversy on Duolingo. On Duolingo they need a flag for every language they put up, but Yiddish is not a language exclusively spoken in one country, so there was quite a bit of confusion/controversy over what exactly to put it as. They ended with this black and white flag with a menorah on it, personally I'd never seen this flag and I assume most Jewish people/Yiddish speakers hadn't either, but it was a solution I suppose.
Ohh that's a good one for my flag mysteries video.
The entire concept of using a national flag to represent a language is just inherently problematic. Like, the two most popular laguages on there are English and Spanish, which already present problems in what flag to choose, so that should already clue you in to the fact that there isn't a 1:1 correspondence between languages and countries.
@@xway2 yeah but there’s a clear origin for both, England and Spain
@@joaquinleon4114 True but most people are probably learning them to talk to Americans and Mexicans.
@@joaquinleon4114 Yet the flag they picked in the end for English is the American one. And if I'm not going insane they used to have the Mexican flag for Spanish but they've now changed it to the Spanish one. Which then creates a slight issue for the Catalan course (from Spanish), which is of course also a language native to Spain (but they use the historical Aragonese standard for that, which makes sense I suppose). See what I'm getting at?
I find a lot of the country ball people realize how anachronistic there being and make fun of it to an extent, a lot of flags are the made up on the spot to fill a certain role or make a character and nobody takes it too seriously. For example Poland is always drawn upsidedown since in the beginning of the webcomics you would find some people not drawing Poland right and it just stuck. It's become a staple of countryballs and now any ball associated with Poland must be drawn upsidedown. I've even seen these little ironic comics of 2 different interpretations of a historical balls depictions are fighting over which anachronism is right.
This, exactly this.
Absolutely. Also the fact that Poland and Indonesia are sometimes depicted together, but they're both reversed due to their flags... It's never meant to be serious.
Now Monaco, Indonesia and Poland have the same country ball
@@eddie-roo yeah why tho
Is this why Israel is square in country balls? It’s always confused me
I think my issues with new wave lgbt flags can be demonstrated with the irish flag. The green represents catholics, the orange protestants and the white is peace between them, as an irish athiest i still feel this flag represents me. If they decided to add a purple stripe to represent irish muslims and a red one for irish budhists, then id start to wonder if im really being represented
Exactly. The lgbt has separate pride flags for different gender identities and sexualities
There is 2 key differences : first, there is a supreme authority over the flag of Ireland, the Irish government, whereas there is no "LGBT+ Assembly". Secondly, the nature of this group. The purpose of the lgbt community is to be open and welcoming to everyone who doesn’t fit in the cisgenre hetero majority, so thematically, it could make sense to make it evolve; also, the definition of what is and what isn’t lgbt sometimes isn’t clear, and the labels evolve rapidly, so putting it on the flag can make sense.
I never actually knew that about the Irish flag, that’s really interesting. Thanks!
@@dieucondorimperial2509 exactly this, thank you -lgbtq person
@@dieucondorimperial2509 The problem is, when you add more symbols, you actually exclude people. The progress flag has no representation for asexuals, intersex people, non-binary people (unless you want to put them under the trans umbrella), polyamorous folks, etc. Making matters worse, at times asexuals have been excluded from LGBTQ+ spaces or had their participation in the movement called into question, and so the progress flag comes across as more of the same, even if that was not the intent.
The rainbow flag never had that problem, because it was intended to have broad, general significance, rather than trying to exhaustively recognize each individual subgroup with separate colors or symbols.
I'm waiting for the flag of the colorblind community which will simply be a white standard with a bunch of RGB codes strategically placed in appropriate areas. And the flag for the completely blind community that has braille all over it.
The blind community would have the "no hdmi signal" screen
What about the blind deaf tasteless touchless mutes with no smell or balance
The Blind community is pretty divided and I don’t think they would Identify with a single flag.
@@TinNguyen-rl2xr crumpled paper
@@manifestman132 or any at all, since flags are a visual medium and blind folk are characterized for their lack of vision.
He said something about Lithuania 🇱🇹, my day is now good
I'm not even Lithuanian, and *I'm* glad.
Lithuania finally exists now.
Now I'm good that your good
@@GEO_ANIMATOR now I’m great bc your good
@@karaliusking6833 now I feel amazing cuz your great
The countryball fandom doesn't think there's a flag for every country ever
It's just there's nothing else you can use for the ball of mesopotamia
idk why use countryballs as an example of this considering countryball comics and animations arent as serious as other topics
@@WNSQ-TV Yeah struck me as odd too. Like the modern german flag is often used in country balls to represent the germanic people who are a) much older and b) are a much more broad group, not because of some political reason or to 'push an anachronistic view of histroy' but because those comic strips are light hearted fun and not at all a correct historical represenation
Yeah, it really put me off
As a German i can confirm that waving the flag or even just hanging it in your ground is uncommon and very suspicous to a lot of us. The connection is If you proudly represent the flag you may bei a fascist.
Also this flag waving on especially Football a.e. soccer events is a pretty new thing that grew over time 10-15 years ago you would see und only a view flags even on world Championship matches
Interesting how different american attitudes are to german ones because of our history. While where im sitting, you display the stars and stripes or else youre a liberal fascist communist anarchist glue eater, its interesting that in germany, because....*that* time period, you guys consider waving your flag liberally dangerously nationalist.
Tldr, i just regurgitated what you said with extra detail.
Yes, the only other place besides the soccer championship and official government buildings where you see the flag are the homes or protests of right wing (extremist) nationalists.
Same for France
Some people don’t like being over expressive of the Australian flag because they believe it can be a symbol of white privilege.
kinda unfortunate
Lol he’s right. I’m an American immigrant and I have both flags hanging in my room. And Yeah when I look at them I do feel pride in being an American 🇺🇸 with my roots from Sudan 🇸🇩 . It’s weird how a piece of cloth can mean so much to me but it does
ما عرفتك يا زول
Did you catch today's Geography Now episode on Sudan? It's a much cooler country than I thought.
@@nelsonricardo3729 haha I was waiting for that episode for three years and it was Awesome! 😅 they really did it justice . I hope you enjoyed it
I feel you man, I lived in the US during my teenage years and I take a lot of pride in both my home nation US' flag. It's weird how you can get so attached to something but deep down I really feel like it reminds us of our lives and the path we forged for ourselves, or atleast that is the case for me anyways. JJ does a great job in this video explaining why flags hold so much significance for some people.
As a brit we feel the same pride but not with flags
I get annoyed with the attitude of the online flag fandom, people get so pretentious with the “rules for good flag design” or whatever that it’s just insufferable.
exactly, even though good flag bad flag is a list of guidelines and nothing more, flag fandom takes them to be a written law of flag design
Are you annoyed when someone says that anything is good compared to an alternative? In my opinion, the expression “it’s all good” is lazy and amounts to an argument for mediocrity everywhere. What a dull world that would be!
I also think the versions of the pride flag with more than just the rainbow look very busy, and the rainbow itself is as good of an all-inclusive symbol as you can get, although I heard an argument that made me rethink my opinion of the flag with the overlapping triangle being bad design. Basically the idea was that with the increased popularity of pride and the pride flag, it was starting to be used by people who were supportive of, say, same-sex marriage, but still kind of hostile towards other LGBT+ people, e.g. terfs. So since you couldn't assume the intention of the person using the flag to support the entire community, the flag wasn't totally doing its job. Thus the extra elements were added so it would be an explicitly clear show of support to everyone LGBT+ even if it was aesthetically cluttered. But I don't think the basic rainbow flag is going away, at least I hope not
Honestly it's really alienating when you need paragraphs explaining just the flag
The pride flag has already gone through revisions. For example, the original had pink but was dropped due to availability. It also reduced to 6 colors for dispay purposes. There also have been anti-gay activists trying to "reclaim" the rainbow flag (scare quotes because they assumed LGBT+ folks were stealing the rainbow symbolism from the story of Noah's ark) and would wear the rainbow colors while espousing anti-gay rhetoric. So I do not find the terf argument very persuasive when this has happened before and the flag withstood the test of time.
Eh the military flag is better
I disagree almost entirely with your second point. Because if the wrong kinds of people are using your symbol, that is an excuse for you to use it MORE, not less. In the UK we have, for the last few decades, had to work hard to stop our flag from being associated with neo-nazi skinhead groups. Can you imagine what would happen if the normal patriotic Brits had given up that fight and used an entirely new or modified flag to represent ourselves - simply to prove that _we are not those people?_
Only ever advocate for an alternative design to represent the fairer, more inclusive version of your community if you intend for that change to be permanent, and are prepared to discard the original design. This approach will only lead the original to become a symbol of what your community is not. If you say "the original rainbow flag is used by terfs and exclusionists" then it only becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Besides, corporates have latched onto the triangle pride flag much more quickly. The central station in my city for instance currently has two of these abominations, each with the logo of the train company in big white letters across the middle. Not to mention the hundreds of corporates who already use it on their social media for Pride Month.
@@smpmuzpid The equivalent of that would be to use the separate LGBT rainbow 🏳️🌈 and trans 🏳️⚧️ flags.
No need to combine them both into a single design since the former is already inclusive of the latter. It would be like having a flag to mean “USA but inclusive of Texas!” and every state having to fly it.
(8:00) Very good point. As a European/Swede myself; looking at USA; they're obsessed with their flag. It appears everywhere. Here in Europe, you'll mostly only see the flag on official buildings, and mostly used only on national flag days. - It's also interesting seeing US media, where the flag is also used to fill out some blank space or background. The elements of stripes and stars with red white and blue colours are also often a theme. So with one random photo or screencap from USA, and you're likely be able to see a random flag.
Do you think flags might be used more prominently in larger countries? They need this official identity to avoid secession and discourage regional identity. The EU is using the EU flag pretty aggressively.
@@Humanophage National flags in Europe have a distinct political intention when their use is pushed. It's mostly coming from their appropriation from the farther right wing nationalist angle, and it drives anyone left of these ideologies (even when in the right politically) to shy away from the idea of comfortably using the flag.
like almost every neighborhood has at least one US flag
I would not use the word obsessed. It's patriotic yes but it it's also used as a just a pattern decoration on items from clothes to clocks like polka dots. Plus a big flag over businesses makes them noticable in cities where signs can only be so high. I see it more like a mascot type thing. We also use flags to signal shared sorrow over death. You don't know how many times I've seen a flag half mast and googled to see what tragedy/politician/national treasure died. Flying a flag of any sort here is very popular. Not just our flag. From state flags to the LGBTQ one to one supporting breast cancer awareness. Flags are not a political thing here. They are an outward statement what we like. One my flagpole I have an American one, a gay pride one and I've been thinking about getting some to hang for different months to honer native Americans and such.
Thats because in the US, the flag is used litterally for the Aesthetic. Theres no other reason.
Stop overthinking it. It looks sick. Im canadian, and I put the US flag on my minecraft base just cus it looks cooler in minecraft since u cant make a maple leaf with minecraft banners.
Also thats why Americans in video games would have canadian skins aswell, cus the maple leaf looks sick if its blacked out and put on a tank or a gun.
Thats litterally it. Like idk why yall overthink it so much.
The mustcahe return was an omen for the return of dedicated flag videos
Yay moustache
Sounds like your talking about hitłer
I’m a huge fan of the ‘stache
List of JJ's obsessions at the beginning, for those who couldn't read it:
1. Annexation
2. Jimmy John's
3. Flags
4. Nintendo
5. Middle Class
6. Being Gay
7. Republicanism
8. Stephen Harper
9. Baby Books
10: Noodles
11: Pepsipus
12: Brains in Jars.
I think we can all relate.
No
Not a fan of 8, but most of the rest I can get behind
@@TlalocTemporal I don't like number 6
Boy do I Stan jj.
Hum being obsessed with Republicanism is a big plus in my book...
Many of these criticisms could also apply to national anthems imo. I've seen countless videos labeling songs popular at that time to be the anthem. For example several videos seem to claim that Hail Columbia was the anthem of the USA before the current anthem we all know. Of course this is not true as the USA had no anthem until the 1930's. National anthems themselves are, like flags, a recent development.
I find this especially interesting when you look at the US's anthem and their use, like you hear it at every sports game and it's extremely widely used. But when you watch an international soccer game, while the other country's fans sing their anthem with their whole heart, the US players stay pretty much silent, as do the fans.
Ew a nazi
@@Void_Wars I think he’s a monarchist, actually
I think you have a poor understanding of what a Nazi is. I'm not much of a monarchist either, I just have parents from Kaliningrad, and am possibly slightly related to German monarchy
@@Shifty_ hey, they're very clearly monarchist, which is separate from the Nazi's. They're still cringe, but not the same level of cringe as neo-nazis
One of my pet peeves with flags is how people think that every colour, every pattern, every stripe everything in any flag is meant to represent something and if it does, they always have the same meaning.
tangentially related "flags are not the necessarily the best symbol in-and-of-itself":
my biggest flag hot take is that I am A-Ok with seals on flags. I think the 'minimalist school of flag design rules has lead to a
lot of samey flags. great seals on a beautiful colored field can look pretty good
Yeah, like how many average people can tell apart all the flags with 3 stripes of red, white, and blue on them? Lol. Also, I remember being a kid (probably over 25 years ago now) and having an assignment to make a flag from a country where I have ethnic heritage. I chose Poland, and agonized for hours over making that eagle that used to be in the middle of it. Now it's just a red stripe and a white stripe. It's not nearly as cool or distinctive.
@@aerialpunk Ever seen the Malaysian flag? Same-y problem
Agreed, unlike most people, I like the US State flags.
As long as it's not 'seal over bedsheet' flags
I personally like a compromise. I like flag designs that are instantly recognizable from a distance. Some of my favorites are the American, Canadian, British, and Japanese flags for having strong, instantly-recognizable designs. Meanwhile, tricolors are boring and generic, especially because so many countries literally just copy the French colors of red, white, and blue. The issue with seals, though, is that even if they're unique up-close, from a distance the details are lost and you just get a circle on a solid-color banner.
09:17 that’s definitely a thing in Sweden if you were seen weaving the Swedish flag singing the anthem and saying how much you love Sweden most people would think you’re a nationalist and stay away from you but if you would do this while watching football or during the Euros nobody should think you are weird and just think you are another football fan
This might be a weird question, but; what if you hang a picture of the swedish monarch? How would people see you?(just curious)
To parade your country flag and be ostracized like a criminal seems pretty fucked up to me.
@@lawden210 The only people I've ever met who did were either a) elderly people who grew up with parents that instilled them with a respect for the monarchy that still held political power within their lifetime or b) people who treats said picture as an ironic joke (and all of the ones I've met had an entire small room or alcove decorated with monarchical memorabilia). So to me it'd just come of as mildly kitschy, and certainly less of a concern than people who deck their home with an excessive amount of flags.
This is the same in Finland too. Excessive use of the flag is only for sports events. Only people that use the flag outside of some patriotic holiday here is a nationalist and they are usually trying to fearmonger about something.
I mean, maybe? But that's only for waving the flag with your hand, on flagpoles it's a different story, Swedish flags or variants of it on flagpoles is extremely common here, just go to the nearest villa suburb, you'll see a flag in no time.
As a flag “fetishist” myself, I can’t but say this is such an insightful take. Well argued.
I like point #3. I remember I told a British friend I would hang a Union Jack out my window to help him find my residence room. When he got there he gave me this long, tedious lecture about how I shouldn't wave his flag around because it's a sign of imperialism, racism, colonialism, etc. Funny, I am the brown Canadian being lectured by a white Brit about that.
Yeah he doesn't understand that the flag doesn't mean any of that
There’s a giant Canadian flag hanging on the front of Ottawa City Hall. When my Korean and Japanese friends saw it, they both commented on how you wouldn’t see that kind of thing in their own countries unless it’s for hyper nationalistic reasons. They both liked the Canadian flag being there and found it amusingly Canadian.
I can understand Japan but Korea?
@@DOCTORKHANblog Korea also has a history of right-wing nationalism that persists in politics to this day.
yeah too many dumb people worrying & Talking about "Nationalism" I did a video on that topic.
im an American & I have many Flags including Canada, & Japan.
@beginning of the end It's not so much the number of flags, bur rather that one HUGE flag covering the front of the building would give a sense of unease in their own countries.
heheheh big leaf
I think if you try to literally represent diverse communities in a flag, you’re only going to end up with even less inclusivity, because then suddenly every other minor community will say, “what about us?”, thereby feeling even more ignored.
Thats why i think a symbol of inclusion, the rainbow or the flag of country that holds personal freedom in high regard, is way more meaningfulls then a group collection sheet. It celebrates the concept of acceptence no matter what situation it's used in
One sticking point I have about flags is that modern designers treat the "five rules of flag design" or whatever they're called like a religion. They're decent guidelines, but if you're too strict with them everything ends up looking really samey and sanitized. Also are you still doing Flag Mysteries? Because there's one that's been bugging me for weeks and I'd love to email it to you.
I agree, especially the rule that there can only be a few colors. Of course most look better with fewer colors, but many have more than 3 and really look nice with them.
Yes I can see why some people don't like coat of arms and all but I feel they give a unique feel however I would like if coat of arms are added to be the center point of the flag
Agree, South Africa and the US state of Maryland have two of the best flags in the world, and they are both major rule breakers.
@@j.s.7335 *flattered South African has joined the chat*😌
@@j.s.7335 South Africas flag is great but I just got eye cancer from looking at Maryland
I feel like adding colors and symbols to the rainbow flag is a dangerous trend,
because then if someone chooses to use the original flag, that might be interpreted as them intentionally excluding some groups
One thing I liked about the Pride flag was the simplicity of it's all inclusiveness.
The colors do have their official meanings. But the overarching theme was that the metaphorical spectrum of humanity being represented as part of the same fabric.
At worst, it almost feels exclusionary to single out particular people from that spectrum. At best, they clutter up the flag to represent what was always part of it.
couldn't have said it better
Here we go
For Me personally as someome form the LGBTQ community. I wish instead or the triangle and the gradient and the umbrella they keep it how it is, I'm not saying races are apart of the LGBTQ but being different skin colours should have it's own pride flag for darker skin at the bottom and lighter skin at the top to talk about how light travels or whateber
Also I feel like the umbrella will make homophobes talk about how We spread HIV and STDs and how sex workers don't use safe sex and condoms and I feel like personally We should make sex in general a seperate pride flag cause the pride flag is to do with sexuality and not just ohhhhh gays Fuck all the time and don't do anything else kind of thing
Plus I rather design the pride flag as a rainbow style instead of a rectangle to show how equal but not straight design and maybe have 6 skin coloured strips hanging onto the rainbow like how cheer leaders have 6 ribbons on each hair style or whatever and under there there's a countries flag and a green ribbon for mental health, showing how a country has both hospitals ans therapy hospitals to treat physical and mental trauma
I'm shit at describing and understanding and English so don't attack Me because something triggered you, also thid is My own opinion, I can't send a pic to exsplain what I'm explaining but just try use your imagination
@@NaughtyNovaroo69 only thing I had an issue with you bringing up was the race thing. I don’t know if you made a mistake, but the normal rainbow flag should cover all races, it shouldn’t be altered because “oh this person is a different race, have this darker rainbow flag. Oh you have a lighter skin color, take this pastel rainbow pride flag”
That just comes off as racist.
Just the normal rainbow flag does it’s job. I agree with all your other points.
A flag should be a sort of umbrella symbol that covers all people that identify with that flag.
The "pride" flag is a rainbow flag, which people continue to wrongly attribute to the LGB community.
Rainbows belong to everyone, and are most often associated with children.
If the LGB community wants their own flag, they should design one.
As a real coin-lover, I think the discussion about other symbols/shorthand for countries outside of flags is interesting. Predecimal Australian pennies had a kangaroo on them, pre-Euro German marks had the Imperial eagle on them and French francs had the Liberty cap on them. I think even current Egyptian pounds have the Sphinx on them. Coins (particularly IMO older coins) often show a country’s own cultural items and history - which I enjoy, and miss a bit with modern Euros.
Well euro coins let countries put whatever they want on one side. I think the problem is that some eurozone countries 1) only one design for every denomination 2) use boring designs.
Not to brag, but the Italian euros have: the colusseum, other 2 iconic buildings, the paintingof Venus by Botticelli, 2 iconic statues, the vitruvian man and Dante Alighieri. If these are not good Italian symbols, I don't know what is.
Not to mention the commemorative 2 euro coins!
@@sig_pagot Yes and amen! They can definitely be excellent. I’m actually in the UK so usually only see Irish and German Euros for some reason - I look forward to seeing the Italian ones now!
Hey cool, another coin collector
I gotta brag about our Canadian coins a bit, all but one of our standard coins have recognizable Canadian animals on them (Beaver, Caribou, Loon, and Polar Bear), and the penny had the maple leaf on it, all easily identifiable as Canadian symobols. The only one I have a problem with is the dime, which has The Bluenose on it, something most foreigners and I imagine most Canadians don’t really know/identify with
@@evilemuempire9550 animals on coins are always a good choice 👌
Isn't the whole point of the "rainbow" demonstrating the vast spectrum of experience and identity? Adding all these specific asterisks not only means a designer disaster but somewhat detracts from the symbolism of the original I think.
I like how they included the trans colors, completely ignoring the fact that trans people were already represented in the "original" rainbow
As a gay man, I think I can say the rainbow flag is busy and gaudy enough as it is and the last thing we need is to put more stuff on it.
the problem with adding more is that they're gonna piss someone off eventually, no matter how hard they try, or eventually end up with a mess of color that looks nothing like the original
Adding the different colors in the rainbow (you know the trans flag and the rainbow with those black and brown colors) IS going to exclude ALOT OF PEOPLE no matter the present or future people that are being offended
@@Maxzes_ It's funny that adding more colours makes it less inclusive.
I’m from alaska, and our state flag is probably one of my favorite flags personally (slightly bias) - I think it does a really amazing job of representing all Alaskans. It’s beautiful in its simplicity, with just the Big Dipper constellation on a navy background. The North Star is also included, which connects such a diverse and large state so easily (because we can all see the North Star, no matter where in the state - it’s only visible in the northern hemisphere, and we are the most northern state).
Also, the flag was designed through a Children’s art contest, and the winner was Benny Benson, a twelve(ish?) native boy who came up with the design, which makes it feel very inclusive to me and very representative of our indigenous people :)
In Ireland, if someone flies the flag of the Republic of Ireland outside their house like in the US for example, it’s thought of as having ties with anti-unionist or IRA ideals, and flaunting these ideals is really frowned upon, and the same goes for the Union Jack, although not as common.
Only in the north of Ireland is this really the case
In Ireland, yes, the tricolour is somewhat associated with republican or nationalist political positions (these are not like the US use of those terms) and those who put a lot of effort into flying it are likely to be assumed to be such. It is far more the case in Northern Ireland, where both the tricolour and Union Jack are used as symbols to declare which side of the divide one sits on. I'd say that the Union Jack is much more prevalent there, but that is just my experience, and it and the oppression and aggressive hostility to people like me (being Irish) that it represents in this context is one reason I don't like to see the Union Jack in general. It's one reason why I would be very sensitive in general with symbols such as these, as they often represent far more than is understood by most people. That's why, whatever one personally thinks of Sir John A Macdonald (first Canadian PM and problematic figure re how he treated the indigenous peoples of Canada), recognising that his statue will often legitimately represent something very different to others is key.
The Irish tricolour is actually intended to represent peace and harmony between the Irish Nationalists/Republicans (green) and British Unionists/Loyalists (orange) on the island of Ireland. Sadly this imagery is rarely what is felt by the Unionists, but that was its original intent and hopefully someday it will fulfil that, even if the island remains divided.
@@caolangordon8167 Tell that to Derry...
As other replies have stated only really the case in Northern Ireland and by city and town and region there
@@neurolicia182 Derry is in the north lol so yeah
JJ: [enters flagspert mode]
Me: [drops everything and watches]
Totally agree. Honestly, if we all had national headdresses instead we'd all be a lot happier!
I would totally support designing new national headdresses for the countries that don't have one already
I would disagree. Flags are easy to produce, and more relatable to the populace than headdresses.
@@IkeOkerekeNews I agree. It's a reference to a joke from an earlier JJ video.
@@sig_pagot coming from a culture that has a number of national headdresses I'm surprised that not everyone has them
@@sodinc yeah I totally get it. Honestly, most of Europe, for example, could revive old traditional costumes and headdresses if there was interest in doing it. It's not that they don't exist, but they're not part of the iconography of our countries anymore (this doesn't always apply obviously). I don't know what was the traditional costumes of my region and I think 99% of the population doesn't know either.
3:53 Ireland is a perfect example. When I think of Good ole Erin‘s isle, I don’t picture green, white, and orange columns, I think of that pretty, timeless, cultural harp.
I think of a shamrock.
Indian flags can be used by people but there are various rules ,for eg.
1. No one can write on the flag
2. Flag should only be displayed from sunrise to sunset
3. If you want to dispose the flag,you can only bury or burn the flag that too with respect.
That's actually the same standards for the US and Ol' Glory. And if a flag ever touches the ground, it's to be ceremonially burned
@@coupledyetivonvanderburg5385 There's all sorts of ways we use the flag despite the flag code, that are completely normalized, and are part of manufactured products. Yet somehow when someone burns a flag in protest as a form of symbolic speech, people want laws and amendments against flag desecration.
@@carultch I've always found the idea that people want to lock up or commit acts of violence against other Americans using their freedom of expression to protest in that way, to be one of the least American things I can think of.
@@ultrademigod It is. And that is precisely why Texas vs Johnson struck down these laws.
And if the flag is made of an incorrect material that becomes a punishable offence.
With regard to the different flag cultures:
Here in Finland, there are 'flag days,' basically all manner of national holidays both minor and major, on which the flag is flown all over the place. Outside of these days, the flag is flown absolutely nowhere.
I quite like it - as a foreigner living here, I'll think "oh, I wonder what day it is" when I see a bunch of Finnish flags flying. It also feels like the Finns can save up their patriotism and let it out in bursts on the flag days, which is nice.
They also have those fun student caps, which people wear on Finnish Independence Day. My Finnish girlfriend, normally very far from a nationalist, will get positively belligerent and sing Finlandia while crying about imagery of Finnish forests.
In Indonesia, flags are mostly flown around our Independence Day (August 17)
Not even at government buildings?
Same here in Australia. I can count the number of Australian flags I’ve seen in real life on one hand. It’s literally just school assemblies, Anzac Day, and maybe you might see one on the town hall.
@@GH-oi2jf well, obviously at government buildings such as the parliament and the president's "castle" as it's called. but no homes or businesses or schools or tax offices or anything fly flags here outside of the liputuspäivä
Huh interesting, here flag culture allows for full time flying of the flag at almost all times, but it is only flown by Government and educational institutions afair (cut me some slack I've been stuck at home for like a year and a half at this point).
In South Africa, white nationalists like to wave the old Apartheid flag. Besides representing an ugly time period, I just want to say that the Apartheid era flag is aesthetically ugly as sin.
The modern SA flag is exceptionally beautiful. The design is extremely distinctive and unique, without being jarring or out of place. You can tell that a lot of passion went into the design.
The modern SA flag is one of my favorite modern flags!
It is one of the best flags in the world, I agree. A fantastic mix of color and design. I also don't know what, if anything it specifically represents, just because it functions so well as a symbol of "South Africa," period.
Unpopular opinion. I prefer the old SA flag. The new one is an example of what not to do with a flag.
@@DOCTORKHANblog I just assume you’re some kinda racist because there’s no other reason to like that awful flag over the current, good one.
@@JJMcCullough I'm black. Thanks for assuming.
As a Spaniard with German friends.... Yeah, no flags for us. Please. Unless it's football.
But as a basque person as well... The ikurriña (basque flag) is very important to me because of its history and the oppression we went through during the dictatorship
I understand you guys, recently the Brazil flag has been taken as a symbol of the latest president (I'm not gonna get into specifics, but he wasn't a really nice person nor a very competent ruler for this time period)
We use our flag proudly in the soccer fields, but if you put it in your car or in your house, you are basically saying "I'm a right wing extremist who thinks we should turn Brazil into a dictatorship led by Bolsonaro"
...
Also he turned the celebration of 200 years of independence into a political campaign for himself 😞...
Man I'm so glad he wasn't reelected
As a Belgian, I get peeved whenever I hear outsiders call us "Germany" or "your flag looks like the German flag"
Because Belgium while existing not as long as Germany, always had the Black, Yellow, and Red 'Tricolor', since it's foundation in 1830,
at least 16 years ahead of when Germany made it's first draft of the three stripes in the same color that they use today.
Also let's not forget in that time Germany switched flags like 3 times... from the Prussian Empire, to the German Empire,
to the 3rd Reich, and now back to the horizontal three stripes they have today.
Yea it just comes down to that fact that we were louder and more dramatic, I think. Makes us more memorable in a world where people are bad at geography in general. It’s nuts to me, I live in america now, and people can tell me what day which general did what in World War 2, but they didn’t know germany was split into east and west after the war, for example.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ people are dumb. At least there are only two of us, unlike the red white and blue club.
well as an American Smart American who studies Flags I understand BUT it's just that not many other people know about Flags.
Ill be doing a subdivision Flags of Belgium I just did one for Spain Flags will upload that sometime soon.
I do have some Flag related videos up also.
Venezuelan revolutionary Francisco de Miranda also designed a black-red-yellow horizontal tricolor flag in 1806, intended to be the banner of the new Venezuelan Army he wanted to form. It was supposed to represent the three main racial groups of the country: black people, white people and pardos (triracials). It is often depicted in history books as a early proposal for Venezuela's flag, even though it was projected as an exclusively military symbol (Miranda had already designed a different horizontal tricolor flag which included the yellow, blue and red that would eventually become [albeit with a different pattern] the first official Venezuelan flag in 1811, and then as a result of the subsequent developments of the War of Independence and Miranda's/Bolívar's unification project also the flag of [Gran] Colombia and the States that emerged from it's dissolution).
Edit: Forgot to mention that the flag of modern day Miranda State pays homage to this seminal design.
As a piece of extra flag trivia, there had been a previous revolutionary attempt in 1797 known as the Gual and España Conspiracy, which was discovered and crushed before its namesake leaders could really do anything other than, well, conspire. They had also took the time to design their own flag for the new, independent country they wanted Venezuela to become (which also contained multicolored stripes representing different racial groups, as well as the human-faced sun symbol of later Southern Cone fame). This flag was never actually flown as far as I know; as I mentioned earlier, they were caught before the actual coup d'etat could take place. But it was adopted as the modern day flag of Vargas State, in which the city of La Guaira, where they had intended the revolution to take place; is located.
belgium as a country has existed longer than Germany as a country has existed. Prussia in 1830 was not yet in 1830 Germany by another name. If we are going for the HRE well, Belgium Austria and Czech Rep were all in that too.
Germany is more known than Belgium, since its a smaller, younger country. Obviously people will think that, sorry about it.
Its funny how flag laws exist, in my native Costa Rica when José María Castro Madriz approved the modern Costa Rican flag design in 1848 he issued rules that only government buildings and places could have the flag with the coat of arms and citizens were only allowed to use the flag with no coat of arms 🇨🇷 however this failed and no one followed this rule displaying both versions.
Why would they want to restrict the use of a nation's flag? Wouldn't the government want people to feel pride in a nation and it's symbols?
@@FroyourHistory It's not that they wanted to restrict national pride it's that they wanted a system where the coat of arms was the official government symbol and the people had the regular flag to use however it failed in the long run it was just too widespread to enforce Ironically most border security/police or government workers often have the flag with no coat of arms on their outfit
@@starkillerdude1914 oh I understand I just thought it was counterintuitive. Very interesting
@@FroyourHistory It was a really dumb law which actually come to think of it might still be in effect de facto but it was just so hard and unrealistic to enforce that there was no way it was ever going to be a thing
@@starkillerdude1914 yeah. Though I wonder if it's enforced for shipping and boats.
Honestly your "bad flags" launched my obsession with flags xD
3:28 Correction, most of the time, in the lack of an official flag, the standard polandball rule is to substitute a seal or symbol for the flag (Also often used are battle standards), As an example, the Ming dynasty is usual represented with the Chinese character for Ming (明) and that is usually put on to the standard yellow 1ball that represents prehistoric or indigenous flagless populations of Paleosiberian, Altaic, Sino-Tibetan, Tai-Kadai, and Dené-Yeniseian people.
Say what you want about countryballs, Kraut's documentaries are really good.
I will say NOTHING
Kraut is an amazing RUclipsr
Kraut is a far right lunatic
@@darioguerra3065 used to be*
@@NACHOXXX4 not really, he removed his old far right conspiracy videos and has tried to rebrand himself, watch his debate with vaush and others he is still crazy
"France is the country where we all live."
-JJ, 2021
-Napoleon Bonaparte, 1812
Long live the Empire
wow I cant believe all 7 billion of us are in the same country
As a member of the North American Vexillological Association/NAVA, I agree with a lot of your points
How do I get in
(4:00) Sweden can be represented by three crowns; two side by side and one below in centre. This symbol is placed on the top of the Stockholm city hall; it's the main symbol on the national hockey team. - Since Windows refuse to add flags for some reason (probably because it needs compatibility with black and white emojis), they could add the three crowns as the symbol for Sweden as a fallback, since it's still distinct in black-and-white.
I like the Mongolic flags, they have a certain colors and symbols that say “We’re related” like the Inner mongols, Mongolia and buryat all using the same symbol while some still use the combination of yellow and blue, like cultural birth marks with the sky, sun and moon.
What is cultural Stockholm syndrome
@@turmunhkganba1705 idk I wrote this at three Am
Again this is assuming that there even is a flag for Inner Mongolia/Buryat/other Mongolic cultures. Sure the polandball community created a bunch of anachronistic flags to represent all of them, but traditionally Mongolic cultures used a diverse set of _tugs_ to represent their tribes and cultures instead of flags.
The new flags are "cultural" bc they're just slapping already significant symbols onto a bedsheet, not because they've had any particular history or significance to Mongolic peoples in general.
I don't like how people feel super inclined to make their personal flags and flag redesigns as simple and more notably symmetrical as possible. Sure it makes a flag look more pleasing, but it always ends up with "funny symbol in middle" or mabey some equal strips. And I also feel that people are very obsessed with having a unique symbol in some way on their flag. The are always like, "the stars are kinda boring" or "why can't you throw the 'something' in the middle?"
I personally don’t see a problem with people giving nations that didn’t have flags newly made flags.I mean as long as they don’t claim it’s always been there flag who cares.It’s fun to give ancient nations banners plus vexolgy is a cool thing in general and a lot of people have fun with it
Their you have it
It’s ahistorical. Why not give them kings they never had while you’re at it.
@@JJMcCullough countryballs can't be anything OTHER than flags jj. It's like cartoons wearing gloves. Mice don't wear gloves but Mickey mouse did. We could possibly have the emblem or symbol or whatever the historical kingdoms had on the countryballs, but countryballs for those states are mostly their seal/emblem on a field of a stereotypical colour of that state
@@JJMcCullough well there are a ton ancient nations that had national symbols or used certain objects as psuedo flags.
@@JJMcCullough Countryballs are a good way to turn complex civilizations into characters with emotions so they're easier to digest for a non historian. Obviously they're ahistorical, but that's part of the fun.
It's mostly memes anyway.
The most common question I got aw a tour guide in San Francisco was "how long until we get to the Bridge?"
#2 was "Is it a holiday? Why so many flags?" I hadn't realized that just flying national flags outside public building isn't a worldwide phenomenon.
Turkey's flag has some kind of sacredness here in Turkey ,not in a religious sense, but still Turkish people love it almost religiously, for example you can't put it on the ground, which is seens as a disrespectful thing to do. Also there is a saying "Bayrak götte değil, gökte olur", "Flag shouldn't be on an ass, but in the skies" referring to people of countries like US using their flag on things like bikini, underwear, etc. Also Turkish flag being in a bad form (like torn apart or burnt) is illegal and you can't use the flag for the profit of a company ,like using it as a logo
Also a little fun fact: Star and crescent we see on the flags of many countries is actually not an Islamic symbol, but a symbol used by the Ottomans on various banners, they *officially* adopted it in 1844 and many other Muslim nations adopted it, because it was on the flag of their caliphs
In short, any country that has flag laws. You describe pretty much my country's own to a T...
I mean, putting the flag on clothing is against American Flag Association guidelines
@@berylliosis5250 It's technically illegal, actually, since the Flag Code was established by Congress as law... but Flag Code violations have no (legal) penalty, except, iirc, in the UCMJ (the additional legal code and system the military operates under).
@@30denarii
But it's NOT illegal to use a flag pattern for clothing. It's illegal to cut up a flag and create clothes, but just printing the pattern onto fabric with the sole intent of being clothing is perfectly fine
The crescent and star previously was used as a heraldic symbol for Byzantium. The star came to represent the Virgin Mary and the imagery of the crescent comes from the Book of Revelation in the Bible, of a Virgin standing on a crescent moon.
But really the imagery predates Christianity and was the symbol for the Greek colony of Byzantium back in around 300BC
And the crescent and star symbols go back even further back into the Bronze age
I think a lot of modern flag designers try to make their flags using a lot of the same design rules one would use when creating a company logo, which ends up giving them a more dull or off feel
As a moderator and "officer" of the British Ensign Club, a frequent problem we face is despite being a vexillological society dedicated to the rather quirky system of flags used by the British Empire and those countries which have maintained the Union Jack ensign system since decolonisation, our groups is often seen as a discussion place for the policies of Empire itself.
Whilst perhaps an understanding of British Rule in India can impact your choice on where to display British historical flags, for instance it would be generally distasteful to have a flag of the Viceroy fly over the site of a massacre, the actual nature of British rule is largely irrelevant to commenting on the design, manufacture and history of these flags themselves.
Similarly, since the Liberal Party removed the Red Duster from Canada, there are often posts that are little more than criticisms of Trudeau with next to no relationship to the Great Canadian Flag Debate.
Nonetheless, our group is still a great place for finding scans of old atlases of empire, containing graphics of flags that may only ever have existed in theory (say the blue ensign of Quebec whose actual use is doubted), and flag related artefacts of the imperial era (for instance WWII patriotic Canadian pins with the Union Jack as the main symbol)
"The Liberal Party removed the Red Duster from Canada": Do Manitoba and Ontario seem un-Canadian to you?
Finally someone acknowledging the existence of Axis & Allies. It's a great board game if you have the time to play it, and the patience to learn its mechanics.
Honestly I haven't played it before but it does seem like a pretty fun game
@@Fireiscool255 the game is fun, but it takes a really long time to set up, and a game can take multiple days to complete.
Just make a flag with a big tent. It's literally a catch all big tent flag.
A tent is just fabric and poles, so it's basically already a flag
@@nathanmcgill7249 stfu
@@Polmaise1 Rude!
I got excited when JJ mentioned Lithuania, i don't know if i should feel happy or sad about the fact i got excited when someone just mentions the country i'm from
Eh, I think you're fine. It's nice to suddenly be mentioned.
Don't let others dictate how you should feel. Lithuania is awesome anyway! One of my more memorable trip in Europe 😁👍
Sounds like a normal reaction. It's just in your dna lol
9:27 As a Indian I never knew that and I remember getting our national flag ( The Tricolour ) on all national holidays to our schools or other institutions. Also national flag is a very important thing to our sports enthusiasts, just look at the Test cricket world cup currently going on in England.
how old are you?
@@JJMcCullough 18 :)
@@JJMcCullough the thing is the day after national holidays cheap, plastic flags always littered public areas, that's what the government had concerns about, though we do have laws about large flags
I've heard a few different opinions on the progress pride flag and I think people should use whichever flag they prefer. The rainbow pride flag and the progress pride flag both represent the same community, the progress one just puts emphasis on the black and trans parts of the community. I personally think the progress pride flag has a better design, although the one shown in this video is much more cluttered then most other versions of the progress pride flag. But that doesn't mean the other one is incorrect or exclusionary. The progress pride flag isn't suggesting that black and trans people are separate from the rest of the community, and the rainbow flag isn't excluding the black and trans parts of the LGBTQ community.
5:09 In 1930, it was the Weimer Republic in charge of Germany, not the Third Reich. So the German Flag in 1980 was the same as the German Flag in 1930.
Good point!
1930’s* we don’t know what year, and hitler was in power starting in 33, so most of the decade.
To be honest, us Polandball comic makers just want to use a symbol for a character so people will know which country the character is attempting to satirise. (sorry I don't speak fluent English)
I've watched Countryballs Explained video about the history of China and I've never assumed the symbols he used to represent the dynasties were their respectives flags.
As someone who has been interested in flags for about 40 years now, and as such been interested in vexillology for quite a while as well, this is one of the few videos I agree with every single word you said in the video. (Considering our differences too (you’re conservative, I’m liberal, you’re gay, I’m straight, you’re an unabashed Americaphile, I take a much more nuanced look at our southern neighbour) that’s saying something - though I almost always agree with most of your videos’ content as well). As a serious anthematologist as well (and I know you have more than a passing interest in anthems) I can also say that what you’ve said in this video applies to anthems.
Thank you JJ for my new favourite video of yours and one I know I’ll share often. (Though probably not as much as your “milk bag lie” one, I swear every American I meet still believes this lie! They truly are a naive and trusting bunch)
As an Irish person, I've always felt more power and meaning in the symbols of the harp (including the old flag with a harp) and the shamrock as symbols of Irish identity. The tricolour feels somehow artificial, not connected to the long rich history of this island it its peoples, and a thing waved mostly at soccer matches (which just happened to a world I didn't grow up in), not our native sports.
Our species is a symbol-using, symbol making, and symbol misusing animal. We started with it even before the writing.
The individuals that used symbols made a mark on history as opposed to groups that didn’t use symbols
As mentioned in a particularly controversial JJ video, another sort of flag culture is Northern Ireland (and probably others like it) where flags are everywhere but not in a casual sense - the identify Irish Republican communities and British Unionist communities. And it's not just the flags of those two countries, for example some members of the Irish and British communities use the Palestinian and Israeli flags respectively.
*Flegs
That wasn't a controversial video, it was just an infantile and insecure response from a large section of Irish viewers.
@@DouglasEdward84 Same responses from the Quebecois on his videos when he criticizes them in any way shape or form. It's likely just a cultural residue that stems from an underlying insecurity that originates from actually being oppressed historically. Thus, they're hypersensitive about their culture in the modern age since it was constantly berated in one form or another in the past. I'm not saying that's a reason to be hypersensitive to either objective or benign criticism, just a reason for why they are.
I used to be quite the flag nerd when I was young. I used to memorize all the flags of the world. I got to a point where if somebody asked me what the flag of an obscure country looks like (e.g. Malawi), I would tell them exactly down to the position of the symbols and the colours. I still remember most of the flags that I memorized, with the only non-country being the British island territory of Niue. That flag has a very unique Union Jack ensign!
From hong kong, that Ming Flag would be like adding comic sans to a yellow background.
Therapist- The Holy iPad doesn't exist, it can't hurt you.
The Holy iPad- 1:26
9:47 Man I miss old libyan flag. It was so much easier to draw!
The greatest flag design I think is of the EU. It was a flag that symbolized every EU member country without being too cluttered or making one appear better than the other.
I just wish that the LGBTQ+ community also consider this design philosophy because really it is not a visually pleasing design and frankly I think, is an insult to the the beautiful people that are part of that community.
"I don't like the new Mississippi flag, it's too generic"
Dude, have you _seen_ the state of U.S. flag designs?
Especially… you know… considering the old flag…
I like the Wisconsin flag. Two guys, I think drinking beer, out in a farm field, with a cow. Yep, sounds like Wisconsin.
I think what makes it different at sports events is that the flag represents your *team*. Using it excessively outside of that context, holidays or other celebrations is seen as making a statement.
Even outside of former fascist dictatorships, extreme nationalism is viewed with suspicion by a lot of Europeans, especially in the north and west.
To be fair, that is probably because of the former fascist dictatorships.
I wouldn't say that the notion that "all nations had a flag" is very representative of those in the Countryball scene. Countryballs can only work with the visual medium of flags, and even though old age empires didn't really have flags, we still give them flags just so we can know what empire or nation we're drawing and looking at. If we didn't do this, We'd have to draw a blank ball and write the empire's name underneath which isn't much fun. The so-called "flag" of the Roman Empire or Mongol Dynasty just lets us know what we're looking at.
It fosters misinformation. Countryballs are dumb for this reason among many others.
@JJMcCullough ey bro don't knock countryballs
@@JJMcCullough lmao why are they so dumb? I'm legitimately interested to hear this
@@5dollarnote I just don’t like this reductive idea of stereotyping countries in this broad way. I think it fosters division between people. We should want to work together not fetishize the idea that we’re these weird things in perpetuate conflict with each other and defined by our differences.
@@JJMcCullough Polandball is not high brow by any means; that's not its function. I don't think it inherently fosters division but it can be used that way.
I also wouldn't call it fetishization to acknowledge that all of human history has been different groups in conflicts and cooperation at any given point.
11:40 The UK flag is quite intentionally a literal representation of the various countries - it is a combination of St Patrick's, St Andrew's and St George's Crosses. Putting St David's Cross in there just makes sense.
It does make sense, but lets be honest, the dragon would be better .
@@JSideFx why settle, do both
I'm obsessed with all of the game sound effects that are used on all the videos. they make me so happy and add a cute flair to the videos :)
To be fair, when it comes to countryballs they kinda need to use flags to represent the characters
Although the subreddit does acknowledge that most ancient civilizations didn't have flags and recommends just using the modern equivalent one in their place
I mean, there were flags in ancient Rome, they just weren't used as a symbol of national identity. Flags were only used in war in order to show other armies just who they were messing with. A flag doesn't have to be a universally recognizable symbol. It's just a simple logo in the form of a colored piece of cloth.
6:37 Haha! The Czech Republic was the exact country I was thinking of when you said "[countries] that are just not that very well known"!
Are you one??
@@JJMcCullough I'm not Czech but I certainly know of its existence. It just fits into a category of a more exotic country in Europe that not many people out of the geography fan base would know about, at least in my mind.
Also, your point later in the video about the French and UK flags being abstract rather than having to represent everyone etc is so true. :)
I'm originally Czech, and I've generally disliked the flag since it uses the same tricolour pattern as the French, Dutch, and American ones. Until Communism every revolutionary or independence movement seemed to adopt the Republican French flag colours. The old flag of the Kingdom of Bohemia looked exactly like the modern Polish flag, so that one would be useless too and wouldn't "acknowledge" Moravia as a component, so can't use that one either. Really we should just go back to using the Bohemian lion and try to market that as the recognizable symbol much like the Egyptians have the pyramids or the French have the Eiffel tower as visual short hands.
Bavaria, where I'm from, sits directly at the Czech border, so I really didn't expect the Czech Republic as a not well-known country.
@@Vlasov45 It is more likely that the Czech flag was inspired by the pan-slavic flag, designed at a congress in Prague in 1848. Most slavic countries have those same colours and it's bloody annoying.
4:46 that union flag is wrong. The diagonal red line on the top right should be on the left side of the White diagonal stripe, not the right.
I like using flags as a symbol to represent countries. Flags are standardized to where one flag corresponds to one country. However, a myriad of symbols could be used to represent a nation - for China, there is one flag, but if you choose a symbol, you could choose from many options-the Great Wall, giant pandas, the Yellow River, a pagoda, etc. The same goes for symbols to country - the mountains used to represent Switzerland in the ad you showed could just as easily represent many other mountainous countries, where as the Swiss flag represents only Switzerland.
Technically two flags if you wanna go a certain route, for China that is
@@sword6381 For China, but also for the other China.
The problem with flags it is that sometimes they are very hard to tell apart.
@@juanausensi499 *China, but also China.
As someone who’s gay myself, I couldn’t agree more about the LGBT+ flag. I feel like in an effort to be as inclusive as possible, the flag loses its meaning with every inclusion of an identity.
I don’t mean to be contrary, but I’m not sure I understand why sex workers and racial minorities have been added to the flag. Belonging to those groups does not necessarily make someone LGBT+. Similarly, I’ve seen this with allies as well.
We absolutely should stand in solidarity with these people, but in my opinion, it’s actually kind of insulting to all of us. Our experiences are all so different; lumping us all together makes it seem like it’s become the “minority” or “marginalized” flag, and I see it as more of a form of erasure.
It’s political. Here in the states (where most of the pride flag stuff starts) one political party has decided to be the catch-all party for “marginalized people.” But marginalized people don’t really have the same political priorities and needs. The Democrats try to represent Ethnic, Religious, and Sexual minorities. As well as working class people and environmentalists. All without offending the sensibilities of the university liberals and tech/financial industries. It a coalition that is really only held together by a mutual distaste for the other party. One solution is to try to artificially generate solidarity between groups that don’t have a whole lot in common.
The Palestinian regime is no ally to the queer community, but at our pride events, you’ll see Palestinian flags because we’re easier to keep together as a coalition if our top priority is “solidarity” rather than tangible political objectives. Lockheed Martin exists to prolong and profiteer off of war. But they put in a couple diversity initiatives and the Human Rights Campaign gives them a perfect score as a good place for queer folks to work. Democrats have found that virtue signaling keeps people coming to the ballot boxes better than passing real policies because any tangible thing they could do would threaten some part of their unwieldy and precarious coalition.
are you choosing to be dense? nobody uses the pride flag in this video. racial minorities should be represented in the flag. if you don’t know why that’s on you to educate yourself on it.
@@arionnawarren9989 Oh boy, my favorite kind of performative outrage. Umm, first of all, the flag, or some variant of it, kind of does appear… right at 10:41… so, that time stamp is there just in case you missed it.
My point was, if you had read my comment in full, was that lumping all these groups together does not serve any of us. Being a racial minority or sex worker does not necessarily make someone lgbt and vice versa. The impression I get from this flag is that it’s a lazy way to put us all together in one group, as though because we’re all minorities, we all are one homogenous group, and to me it seems insulting to ALL of us.
It feels forced and political, as though we’re all being rallied to fight under one banner. But our experiences and goals might not necessarily align, which is counterproductive.
I would be interested in hearing why you feel the way you do.
@@arionnawarren9989 Imagine caring.
@@typ0z I didn’t miss it, the flag in the video doesn’t represent the true modern pride flag. Search it up if you need to.
Your point makes no sense, obviously it’s talking about people who are in these groups and apart of the community. The flag is INCLUDING racial minorities and sex workers(not that i agree with adding sex workers). Saying that including racial minorities, which have made a huge difference in the community, is the actual insulting. Many POC(like myself) have felt more included with the proper modern pride flag.
It may be forced and political but that doesn’t necessarily make it wrong, it’s helping POC in the community. It’s showing our community is more than what we see on TV.
I love flags to represent countries but without doubt they are not the only symbol and I agree a lot with you that a flag shouldn't be so strict about a place culture but rather just a symbol that unites the people. Very "inclusive" flags are often very ugly, very complex to represent (and thus many times excluded), and they still aren't "inclusive" enough if you want to be literal.
why does it have to be "inclusive"? Most Flags represent the people. too many people want like 16 different symbols on them "too include US also"
Adding more and more things to the pride flag is like adding more types of leaves to the Canadian flag, just because you want people to know that maple trees aren't the only trees that exist in Canada.
Its strange. When I see an updated pride flag I roll my eyes in a way I don't when I see the usual flag.
My support for the message is even diminished (specifically my reaction to the imagery/ the feelings the imagery evokes in me.)
I feel that a literal interpretation of flag representation is deconstructive and can realistically only alienate people in a way that an abstract symbol(s) wouldn't.
Because there are an infinite number of ways which to divide people. Which doesn't make sense, as that is the opposite of what a flag is meant to be.
And that's not to imply that I don't approve of gay people in general or that I disllike any other group under the LGBT umbrella.
We shouldn’t carry around flags. We should carry around bricks. If it worked for Marsha and Sylvia, it should work for us. Also, way less gaudy.
@DANIEL BIN OMAR - bricks work because of the threat of getting rowdy.
shit 5 bad flags was 5 years ago?! I'm so glad your new mic has worked out JJ
Really interestingly explained, I wanna share this to every WAY too literal post I see on Instagram
If there were dinosaurs on flags I would like them