Audi sent Michele Mouton, a highly ranked rally driver, with a Group B Audi to the 1985 Pike's Peak hill climb. She, of course, destroyed the course record by 10sec and beat all the competition that year by 30sec. Mouton and Pat Moss (Stirling Moss's sister) are the 2 most well know women drivers in World Rally. FYI Moss was an Austin Healey factory driver.
Agreed .. also speaking about those record time racing at Pikes Peak when the up-hill race was not even paved even more dangerous.. everyone here talks about how dangerously the group-B rally was but Pikes Peak had fatalities as well, just like other forms of motorsport : F1, 24h- Le Mans, NASCAR, INDY 500, 8 figure, Dakar .. in fact al forms of motorsport starting from motor-bikes (Isle of Mann TT) to Go-Karts and up-wards ALL have dangerous situations with different awkward fatalities that had been seen.. so i really don't get this rapid hysteria of reaction to Group-B considering what i mentioned here.. if you were fan of that sport and you go there or watch live you will understand just like Europeans wonder what is with Wrestling dudes : from Hulk Hoogan.. to J.Cena - that grab chairs to smash the head of opponents in a freaking-hylarious-parranoic show-fight hitting the opponents with they head to the corners of the ring while the audience eat popcorn ? how is that considered sporty or even something legal to watch ?!! Box is a raw gentlemen fight has rules but wrestling is so stupid..
@@poplaurentiu4148 all the races you’ve talked about have tightened up rules and added more safety standards, more drivers were dying so they did there best to fix what they could, it wasn’t a boxing match it was an underground cage fight, cool but good people died, TT can’t really do much cause there’s only some much you can do to make a motorcycle safer, ie survive a 150+mph crash without any thing but a little bit of bike and your body for cushion.
I was a teenager in the 80s and was obsessed with this. I did buy a 88 Mazda 323GTX which 4WD and little turbo motor that was built for rallying (and no ABS, airbags or TC back then) and it was such a blast. These rally cars really started the ant-lag function of dumping fuel into the turbo to keep it spinning when off throttle. You should also check out the Audi 90 that they ran in the IMSA series back then it was insane and Walter Rohl is a god at car control. (I still have the poster of it on my office wall).
Managed to see the IMSA Audi’s run in anger at Mid-Ohio the two years they were legal. Golden Age of IMSA GTP’s, GTO’s and GTU’s. The number of factory teams was incredible. Seems IMSA is back on that path again 🏁
A little trivia about Lancia in Group B: so apparently even producing 200 cars for open road was too annoying for Lancia, so they did a trick: When the inspection went to check the produced cars, they showed 100 of them, and then said to the inspection: "the other 100 are in a parking lot at the other side of the city, let's have lunch and we'll go see them after". While lunch was going on, employees of Lancia moved the 100 previously inspected cars to the other parking lot where the 100 remaining cars supposidly were, so that they could pretend they made 200 of them while making only 100. It actually worked
A Carmagazine measured the Lancia Delta S4 from 0 - 100 km/h (0 to ~62,14 mph) in 2.4 seconds ... on gravel/loose underground. That was Formula 1 acceleration on a tarmac racetrack at that timeperiod.
@@TheSpliffMaster I only know/read about the lastest evolution stage for Rallye-Cross and Hillclimb with 480kW ~650hp. But if anyone knows where to look this up I'd like to know. Another thing, if you want to see a carjournalist from germany who is famous for never stop talking, going completely silent in a S4, here's a treat for you ruclips.net/video/ecPzCTYaPew/видео.html They're talking german, but you have unfiltered sound from the inside of the car, so turn up the volume and hope your ears don't fall off ;) Also nice reaction and greetings from germany :)
Years ago I spoke to the rich and lucky owner of the Delta S4 ex Alen who raced in the 1986 Argentina Rally. He told me that that S4 exceeded 700 hp with boost
Semi-automatics are better known as sequential gearboxes. For startup, you use the clutch as in a normal stick. After that, you can shift without clutch as long as you keep the rpm over a certain level, e.g. 3000rpm. The gears are straight-cut with no syncro-mesh - not diagonally cut with sm like in a normal stick. Therefore it can take more power - and causes that typical "wine" - like the reverse on a stick. You can spot a seq box easily inside the car - instead of a stick you have an aluminum "tower", also known as "dog box". The knob on top is the moving part. It can be tilted forward and backward. Forward - shift down, backward - shift up.
The fact that people stand so close or on the road, the drivers have a way of dealing with that: They think of the people as bushes, so they can deal with almost hitting people..
I used to watch the group B rally when I was in my teens , when it went through Wales (UK). You could basically stand anywhere along the stage. There was a saying that went "rallying was for the boys, group B rallying was for the men. However, there was a female driver who could put anyone, especially in the group B rally to shame. Check out the legend, "Michele Mouton" she is the fastest female driver in the world.
Amongst her many achievements she went on to compete at the Pikes Peak Hill Climb in the mid 80's, winning the event and breaking Al Unser Jr's record on her second attempt. Something her american rivals didn't like at all, especially Bobby Unser who said some things about her to which she supposedly replied "If you have the balls you can try to race me back down as well." Hope that last part is true.
@@lextex3280 tbh it would be spectacular if there was some kind of series about her life and motorsport, like netflix did with queen's gambit. no fiction can beat reality, and michele was really just a monster! imagine how amazing it would be to watch
The claimed HP was so much less than the actual power. The drivers were claiming 0-100kph (62mph) in around 2.3 seconds. The skill of these drivers was insane.
Juha Kankkunen was one of the best also in rallying, he lives near my place and once i saw him at local store we started to talking about Henri Toivonen.. kankkunen is one of the legends and one of the most skilled drivers ever. also my father built most of his house with Juha's brother (which was drunk all the time :D)
Asking who is crazier? In finland during the rally we have people as security guards who yell "AUTO POIS ALTA" so in english "CAR, LEAV or STAY AWAY" which usually means that viewers needs to step back a little from the road :D
i bet its somewhere down in the comments .. the turbolag was undone the same way by Walter Röhrl by staying on the throttle and braking at the same time as mentioned in the video.. .. and he also had his clutch hydraulics coupled to a button so he could change gears without using the clutch pedal and a lot faster (no automatic).. That 5 cylinder turbo quattro fluttering with the blowoff valve is so iconic.... :-) audi played a lot with the 5 cylinder engine (also high speed records), they even went from the standard 5x4 = 20V to a 25V version at some point...
i had a peugeot 205 in 2000 as a first car , 24 years later , still driving a peugeot 207 and it s a great car , easy to fix , economic , well balanced
I think he calls "semiautomatic" to secuential gears, which is basically still manual (cluch is still there). As I understand it, semiautomatic gears are basically secuential without clutch pedal.
I marshalled on club rally in the 90s where some of these cars raced. I always loved the Ford RS 200 - absolutely beautiful. I still have cognitive dissonance over the MG 6R4, it's no Mini Metro.
French 80's guy here (yes I'm old) The 205 is legendary for sure but in terms of badass looks and perfs (proportionally) the R5 T2 has always been steps above to us here. Most models are owned by American collectors now which is (no offense) sad, in a way. Check on it, it's just amazing.
That's interesting about the centre of gravity in the peugeot 205, similar to a modern tesla, with the weight mounted as low as possible between the front and rear wheels.
I’m not sure but i think i heard in another video that these group b drivers would visualize the spectators as trees so they don’t get too nervous driving to close to them.
"Rally driving s something that is not big in America..." I always thought it was one of the most popular motorsports up there on a top list with NASCAR and Indy.
Check out the Lancia Stratos. It was specifically built for Group B Rally. There were very few, if any built for the street. I THINK Audi actually invented full time AWD for autos during this time. just wish that there was a way to keep up with WRC at the time. We only heard about the WRC after the fact, along with F1 and Le Mans. It was SO fascinating! But, no way to keep up with it. I was born in 1964, so I also had no way to keep up with it. Check out Steve McQueen's movie LeMans! You will LOVE it!
Those packed roads you always see in 'group' B are takken (most of) in Portugal. But again dodging bulls is a national sport. Early 80's it was a big event, until two people died, in an accident. But by them, it was usual to say : "WRC is for boys, Group B was for men"!. Take care!
This is a racing format that I wish they would bring back maybe you know put a little bit of limitations on it so that way it's not as dangerous and set up and set up barriers so that way You don't go into the crowds or I don't know don't have the crowds literally right on the side of the road
well health and savety slowly manages to ruin all the fun . i dont want to say that we have to set up stuff where many people die but a few dead a year are worth the fun its not like the people didnt knew what they are doing
You're not wrong when you say rally drivers are the most skilled. Truer words have never been spoken. These lads ( and lasses ) make F1 drivers look like Miss Daisy
Henri Toivonen's death was the catalyst for change to group a. F1 in the 1980's got up to 1500hp in qualifying mode. Toivonen was to rally what Senna was to F1.
The original audio was really heart breaking, hearing the marshals fight between each other and the poor marshal trying to call it in screaming at them to move their backsides and get it into gear and get to the scene asap. There was a lot of incompetence in the marshals back then and no cohesive team work. It has been changed and cut i think for respect to the dead and its difficult to hear the original audio.
@@theghost6412 I don't think the marshalls could have done anything. I mean, considering it was well off the road on a rally stage and burst into flames on impact because of the inadequate design of the fuel tank.
@@arconeagain they should not however taken as long as they did to get to the scene of the accident. They didn't mobilize immediately which is what you expect for a team of Marshals to do, they are on standby at any second for a reason. They took far too long to get there, whether they could do anything or not. That alone brings questions, did they have a chance to save them?
@@arconeagain oh I have watched it a hundred times many years ago, just dumbfounded how ill equipped and slow they were. That accident itself was fatal from the get go, but there truelly was no excuse for the marshals. They were somewhere else on the course, which brought to attention how understaffed they were. They were not prepared to even look after the event. There was a massive backlash and huge reform of how races are conducted after this fiasco in all other classes. They really failed this one. Whether they could do anything or not, it was inexcusable.
Jeremy Clarkson does a great segment on top gear about how group B came to be, and the fight between Audi and Lancia to be the best while bending the rules to get there. BTW the Lancia tube role cage was cardboard tubes made to look like metal to save weight, making the drivers even more crazy.
@@francescober Not even between the lines, Clarkson literally says “I’m not saying they did this, but if you look at the wrecks from crashed Lancias you can see they weren’t exactly strong” or something like that.
Moving cars between car parks, salting the track, not entering rallies they would lose then entering multiple cars on rallies that they would destroy.. Gotta love Lancia
Gday Ian. Great clip. Those Group B cars were absolute beasts. I reckon rally drivers are THE best drivers. Take a Go Pro drive with one and be prepared to need new underwear quickly!!
Been in the car with Ken block for a demo rally stage, yeah the guy processes things at an insane pace. Granted I wasn't the first guy to take a ride that day but even when he has the track memorized it's pretty damn insane the car control that he has. Shame that car burnt to the ground.
I was a mechanic for a group N team during 1986. The group B cars were incredible. You need to see the video of Marku Allen driving the Lancia 037 on the 1000 lakes rally. Pure mastery of the car and terrain. Keeping the 2 wheel drive Lancia ahead of the Audi's on the gravel stages!
Literally every car guy who finds out about GroupB late into the game "Oh wow! This is fucking amazing! I love these cars!!! What a fantastic series!!!!!" "Oh shit... Yeah... That had to stop. Wow..." But in the end, we all find one car from Group B in particular that we add to the "dream list" of cars we would gladly own. Was fun watching you discover this part of automotive history.
Exactly.. the famous Ken Block started all his Gymkhana and rally saga because Group-B.. all improvements we see on most ice-cars ( before the full EV era starting to grow ) like all wheel drive traction, semi-auto gearbox, different suspension packs shocks coils & dampers, electronic hydraulic hand-brake, all these have improved a lot in daily road cars because of raw testing and data collected from the WRC Group-B.. and the Group-B was not the most evolved form since that suppose to follow in the Group-S that should follow next year but since Group-B got banned by FIA, Group-S was ditched as well before we got the chance to see how good the innovation would improve the performing in this form of motorsport.. WRC & Rally-Cross..
The crazy part? The FIA was thinking of one-upping Group B with the even more bonkers Group S prototypes. A bit over 900 kg + 600 bhp in race trim + snow, gravel, dirt + those crazy spectators . . . I mean, what could go wrong? And then Toivenen and Cresto's horrific accident. Lancia fanatic here, ever since the Fulvias and especially the Stratos. For Group B it was the 037 for me.
Its sad. I feel like they could do it again today. We have so much more in terms of safety, they could avoid certain stages and restrict spectators of course. It would be incredible to see today, and to see burgeoning innovation. FIA wants to go electric though
My dad was big into rallying when I was a kid in the 80s so I got the see these as a really small kid. But they were just too powerful, particularly for the stages they were driven on. Later research actually showed that changing scenery was at times coming at the drivers so fast that it was physically impossible for the human eye to properly focus fast enough. And the last interview Henri Toivonen gave before the accident is just haunting. Talking out of the window of his car he complained that the daily distances raced in the Corsica rally were just too much in these cars, the interviewer asked (paraphrasing from Finnish) "The human body can't take it?", Henri replied "The human brain can't take it" and drove off.
The spectators were definitely the crazier, in some countries it was considered a badge of honour to actually touch the car as it went past. There's at least one anecdote about mechanics finding a spectator's finger caught in the bodywork at the end of a stage... The Renault was only 2WD, it predated the Quattro, but still had the engine in the middle like the later Peugeot. The Metro 6R4 was 4wd and was normally aspirated, so no turbo lag. When Group B ended there were still many 6R4s sitting around unsold, so they became a cheap go-to for European Rallycross. The engine was eventually developed for use in the Jaguar XJ220. Despite the legendary power of the Group B cars, it was only a few short years before the more production-based Group A cars like the Lancia Integrale and Ford Escort Costworth were posting faster stage times...
from the Peugeot factory explained why they are competing in the Rally when they invent a new thing they need to test it ... but all factory tests are "under controlled conditions" so the only real place is Rally Paris - The Dakar Rally and Group B were a testing ground for the technologies we have in cars today The factory said that the stresses on the chassis and parts during one race that lasts about 7 days, they need 3-5 years of "testing" in the factory The cars were extremely expensive, up to $ 1 million apiece there was no saving, victory is important, but also the test of parts today’s sport shock absorbers were developed in Rally races 4x4 drive semi-automatic transmissions turbochargers that pulled over 1000 hp from 1500 cc and so on
I had a run on nordschleife with walther röhrl..... there are no words to describe the terror and fear you go throu when he is "going easy" ..... the moment he switches to "racemode" you want to die.... BUT also you feel absolut secure and save.... cant explain it.... Best 7 minutes of my live
You are a lucky person, to be driven easy and also in full attack mode and feel those thrilling exciting moments in same vehicle with such great legend..
I remember these races in Spain. You could hear the next car coming minutes before you could see it due to the huge amount of curves. Me and my buddies used to get up very early to get a spot in the best curve. I can tell you that nobody was there to sabotage any driver. Everybody there just wanted to see the next car passing faster than the previous. It didn't matter if it was your favorite driver/car. All you wanted is to see the next car sliding with the throttle fully open. I fucking miss those races 😁
I vividly remember waving at the drivers in Group B cars as they were transitioning between stages in the Rally New Zealand. They ALL would wave back and the cars were just incredible. The noises they made would send shivers down your spine but NONE could hold a candle to the AUdis. Their 5cylinder engines just sounded like perfection!
Audi RS3s sound very similar to the S1 Quattro. I heard one on the street through my earphones ALL WHILE BLASTING LOUD MUSIC and I had to turn around to check if there really was a Group B rally car near me, because that Audi I5 engine... Man, it literally sounds just like the rally car does on videos and in racing games, like Assetto Corsa and the Dirt series! It's a shame they aren't competing in the WRC right now.
I remember the group b cars and their noise too. The Audi sounded glorious but they all could be heard after they passed you for ages afterwards as they barked and banged through the forestry. Personally, I loved the noise the Metro 6R4 made, it was unique.
As a Finn, I can't help but blurt out that during the short reign of Group B three Finns won the World Rally Championship: Hannu Mikkola (Audi Quattro), Timo Salonen (Peugeot 205) and Juha Kankkunen (Peugeot 205). They could drive...a little.
I loved watching Group B when I was a kid. Personally I think it's the co-driver sitting next to the driver, giving directions that had to be the craziest.
There was a French woman named Michele Moutan that could run with any of the men. She just needed to finish the stage to win the championship, But she had a mechanical failure and came 2nd.
That was the lady who had to deal with the death of her father if I remember correctly in that championship. One hell of a lady and awesome driver to boot.
After Group B was banned from Rally, some cars were repurposed for rally raid or Hillclimb races. Michele Mouton raced (and won) Pikes peak hillclimb race in 1985 with a heavilly modified Audi Quattro, setting a new record time. Bobby Unser Jr (one of the local racers) was pissed and the legend told he exchanged few word with Mouton who replied to him "If you have the balls you can try to race me back down as well." After that, she's notably know as the co-founder of the Race Of Champions in honnor of Toivonen and Cresto. It's an annual race between various driver (Formula one, indycar, nascar rally, motorbike...) on a parallel track layout with different kind of cars (road going, rally, GT...) Today, she's working at the FIA to promote women in motor racing
was in my 20's when Group B was around in the 80's, and was a huge rally fan (even volunteered in the running of state and National events here in Australia) but Group B got hugely dangerous with a few European competitors crashing and dying which effectively banned the formula but there was still a lot of innovation like the semi-auto boxes , small wheel base also is a lot easier to spin in a hairpin then a long wheel base, cheers, Garry from DownUnder
Michele Mouton, one of the Audi drivers who came within about a point of being the first female World Champion, said of spectators something like "It is better not to hit the spectators because they might damage the car". You may know the name because she also set the outright record at Pikes Peak, back in the day!
Walter Röhrl beat her in a rear wheel drive Lancia when she drove her awd Audi Quattro... He even dodged many events like Finland because of all the jumps saying "I am a rally driver, not a pilot"
GW1......................they had a few commercials back in the day , and I wanted her to be my wife !!!!!!!!..............and I would have let her drive any time !!!!!
@@dannycalley7777 you know those 4 letters? starts with an S and ends with a P? you knows those two other letters in the middle? I and M? just asking..
For as many years as they held it here, I used to volunteer for the Telstra Rally Australia WRC event. As much as we used to get on the roads to snap a cheeky pic, we never became the bunting! 😂
Mainly Portugal....... the other countries had crazy crowds but mostly on slow corners.... Portuguese fans wanted to be under the car when the car jumps.....
Was also definitely a unique character. I can't remember much of his quotes but he's let out some interesting stuff. Also if he had driven in all the rallies he would have been champ but he chose not to drive the rallies he didn't like. In example my favorite bit of the calendar (quite obviously if you read my username) rally finland, stating that if he wanted to fly he'd step on a airplane. xD
was yeah, but never dared to drive the Finnish rally which is the fastest gravel rally and the most jumpers. He reasoned that because he did not want to fly a car.
Walter Röhrl took a lap on the famous nurburgring "nordschleife" with a porsche and found himself in a battle with a Ferrari. The driver of the Ferrari made a small mistake and Walter took the oportunity to pass. Eventualy the Ferrari driver stoped him to congratulate......it was Michael Schumacher. Walter Röhrl is an absolute legend!!
The next car from lancia, Delta, was twin charged, turbo AND support charged. Group b cars typically ran with more than 500hp, they could dial it up to 1000. 0-60 times: 2.3 seconds. On _gravel_
Something they didn’t mention was what the manufacturers had on the drawing board which is one of the main reasons for changing the rules. Lancia had a mini sized Ferrari looking bodied supercharged twin turbo v6 4x4. It was nuts and the others were designing similar insane vehicles. Great to watch but the rules needed to be changed.
It also screwed WRC for years. Lancia went on a five year run because noone would spend the money after getting burned by Group B ending. At the very tail end of Group B the big manufacturers started to spend F1 money. There were cars on the drawing board with astronomical costs to build and run. After Group B ended they mostly all walked away. They'd field underfunded teams just to say they were there, but when looking at the red on a balance sheet for cars that didn't even get to run they were just done. Leaving Lancia as the only company truly still competing. It almost killed the sport. It took years for companies to start trusting WRC again.
@@MiTraFilipesoares Yeah because after Group -B suppose to follow Group-S with even more crazy mid-engines cars with more innovative tech kevlar & composites body panels like Audi Sport Quattro RS 002, BMW M1 Rally PRO-CAR, Lancia ECV1 ECV2, Lada EVA S, Peugeot Quasar 405 T16 turbo, Ford RS 200-S, Toyota MR2-222D, Mazda RX7S, Opel Kadett 4X4 E4S, Seat Ibiza Bimotor, Mitsubishi Starion 4WD Rally Prototype and Porsche wanted to enter with few 959 and above all Scuderia Ferrari tested the 288 GTO.. Now with such prototypes beasts in the pipeline, i think WRC would become even wilder & crazy.
you're talking about the legendary lancia stratos, the precursor of the 037. this car absolutely dominated it's time!! it looked like a mini ferrari, and actually the engines where v6 ferrari engines!! it wasn't a 4x4 though, it was racing at a time when there wasn't yet any 4x4 in ralleying.
@@sternschnupper no I’m talking about the never fully made car to follow. You can see the plans for it. The legendary stratos is massive in comparison. Look at the lancia ecv 2. Not a v6 but a 600hp 4pot.
Henri Toivonen tested his Lancia Delta S4 on a track that was also used by Formula 1. His best time would have qualified the Delta 'hatchback' 8th on that years F1 grid! The Delta S4 accelerated from 0-62mph in 2.9 seconds...on gravel.
I was at Portugal rally when that accident happened in Sintra. The group B was amazing. Great cars, drivers and skills. The sensation when the cars passing by you is outstanding, your adrenaline and emotions climb to unimaginable standards. I was born in 65 and I've had great luck to see and living those moments . It's very hard to explain the feeling if you haven't lived that moment. Big hug
2 cars I always wanted during the 90s and early 2000s was Lancia delta Intergrale and the Ford Escort cosworth with the whale tail wing 😊 and to be honest with a lotto win, I’d have a cosworth in my garage for sure 😉🤣
Yeah, the Delta Integrale is often considered the top of the hot hatch list. I had the pleasure of driving a rented 1.9 205 GTi for a weekend and man was that a buzz.
Yeah the Escort Cozzie is a naughty car, Prob still my dream car.... I remember someone round my ways in the 90s, Got his hands on an Ex police Cozzie, F knows how but that was a 160mph monster.... The sound on it taking off I still remember, But yeah the Escort RS Cosworth, 2.0 DOHC is an amazing car, Not forgetting the Sierra lol....
I grew up in Group B eras , to be able to watch rally so close was absolutely nut to compare, I still have my 205 GT I and drive it ocasionaly only to remind me those glorious era of rallying.
Group-B was insane and very brutal indeed but not just for the crowds of people flooding those racing stages but for pilots as well since they suffer of total exhaust, pain in legs, arms & neck pain caused by focusing & concentrating hard on these stages, since the cars were so wild & brutal and too fast for them, they constantly need to adapt the brain to keep the car dancing on those rough rally stages and avoid the crowds that were there to cheer them, a quick mistake could call for a massive disaster.. super crazy but that was precisely what attracted the crowds to watch them.. also super weird is how nobody talks or reacts about other brutal races from South Africa, Kenya, Dakar with some derived cars from the Group-B beasts.. but that is the case for also plenty other form of Motorsport racing disciplines like Insle of Mann TT ? Dragsters ? Bonneville salt-lake deaths attempting to brake the land speed record ? Pikes Peak deaths ? Le-Mans deaths ? Indy -500 or Nascar ? F1 deaths ? anyone - no one ?.. interesting that only Group-B - WRC is the only racing motorsport discipline triggered..
You have to realize that with any track racing, as the cars evolve, the tracks evolved too, providing adequate and enhanced security. In rallying, the cars evolved up to the genius madness of group B, but the roads remained the same... The same trees, same cliffs, same everything and the spectators came in droves (me too). Rallying started to get more popular even than formula 1, and not everyone was happy about this... Then the Toivonen accident in Corsica was the one tragedy that served as the best excuse to put an end to group B. We will never see any madness remotely approaching these up to 550 HP machines blasting through forests, country roads and villages, gliding at maximum speed through hundreds of thousand applauding spectators without even the slightest of safety measures! It was a different world back then for sure!
The big thing for the spectators was to touch the cars as they went past...apparently it was not unusual for service crews to have to remove fingers from bonnet and door shuts at service. PS The Lancia 037 is my all time favourite car.
Hi Ian, you are right about the Rallye situation employing the best drivers. I say this because most driving involves traction, then it gets loose and they recover. Rallye is the opposite in most stages whereby the drivers are in a very loose environment, so they are sliding most of the time. Group B was like unlimited class, hence the video title. I know Nth America refer to your continent as 'The World' but WRC is World Rally Championship, including ALL of the World except Nth America, tho Kenny from the Block had a short stint. Lots of fantastic drivers during this class and currently. Look up Walter Rohrl, who drove for Lancia amongst others - there is a bit of footage available about him! Here is a great clip from inside the car, showing what the driver sees, plus you get to listen to the Nav reading thru his pace notes, as the driver must know what to expect before he gets there. ruclips.net/video/0YtcA8v-6g8/видео.html ruclips.net/video/bK_toF3uDt8/видео.html Cheers mate.
Rally was a huge TV sport in the UK when I was in my teens in the 80’s. It was great to see these cars going like stink in the Welsh mountains, pitch black and snowing! Got to watch the Peugeot, MG 6R4, Ford RS200 go against each other in Rally Cross (a made for TV sport where cars run with each other on rally-like custom tracks). These things could do 0-60 in under 3 seconds in the 80’s
the old Lancia's was the so unsafe.. Italians trying to save weight and money aren't good for drivers safety. But they were soooo fast, so well made on the days they were working. God blessed Lancia to be the best rally maker in history. Here in Scandinavia, one rally stage is going outside the kinder garden my little sisters and brother went to.
@@murray7584 you know Henri Toivonen? have you seen his car? that lightweight that made them great, also killed them. Just ask Walter Rühl, he was smart, so he still here so you could ask him...
The 80's & 90's was a wild time for rally, world rally driver's loved coming to Western Australia because of our world famous pea gravel, real shame world rally stopped coming to Perth.
Best way to describe rallying is driving as fast as you can, on a road you have never driven on before, relying on verbal directions. They really are the most skilled drivers.
Yes, the fact there are no practice laps, only a recce in a road car for pace notes is mindboggling. WRC is the greatest motorsport on earth. Group B was insane but needed to be stopped.
The really impressive thing about group B is that only a few years earlier people were renting standard cars, sticking numbers on them, winning occasional stages, then removing the numbers and returning them to the rental company. Rallying hasn't had great coverage in the UK since the nineties unfortunately. You should look up the Metro 6R4. It was hilariously bonkers. Pretty much an angular Mini (for anyone who has no idea what a Metro is...) with big arches, four wheel drive and a transversely mounted engine with a few hundred horsepower.
Group B was what turned me into an Audi fan, 😤 this gets me pumped and wishing that they would bring group B back, with safety improvements but let the manufacturers go wild
Great video. Living on this side of the pond, I'm a Rally fan since childhood. Lancia Stratos and other Lancia Models were amazing. Peugeot the small 4Wd and featuring a Turbo and a Supercharger was really state of the art. Renault had several models, my favourite being the Alpine. The Porsches couldn't just compete. Alpines are very popular road sport cars, worth looking them up (You tube has several videos about them) One of my friends here in Portugal, a Car-guy with an impressive coplection, owns an Alpine -- winner of the Monaco Rally. However, he was not the driver behind the wheel -- after the Rally, he purchased the vehicle from the Factory . Somo F1 drivers took the seat beside the drivers and got a taste of the action. Deeply impressed and kind of scared at the end of the show...
Would love to see something similar happen now. Its my favorite motorsport but I stopped following it after the Evo, Subie days. 1200kg min , 600hp max. Special stages and an amount of bitumen , like a long distance rallycross. Bring it !😎👍
i saw the S4 racing and obliterating all competition. it was a real monster, over 600hp. i drove many times the delta integrale evo, the road version of course, that took over where the S4 left. best car ever, bar none.
the most impressive were the night stages, and the sound of these cars was so loud that we felt it in our whole body when they passed 1 meter away from us.
The mid eighties was the high light of my rally experience. I was racing motorcycles at local events and was always interested in Rallycars. After spectating at several local events here in the Pacific Northwest I was able to find the right people to help me get involved and eventually enter some events. Most US rallies were run at night only. After a couple years. I was asked to drive one of the two pace cars for Toyota in the Olympus rally in 1985. Which was the first world class rally that came to the USA. What a great opportunity. At that time I had no idea that Group B would become such a special era in the sport. I remember how excited I would get telling friends about these factory supported rallycars. How cool they sounded. Of course most people here in the states admired muscle cars and couldn't imagine a little four cylinder making the sounds I would try to describe. It's really only now with RUclips and guys like you presenting this special time in motorsports that some of these people are waking up to what they missed back then. I will always cherish the first hand experience of these crazy exciting cars...... Cheers
The group A era that followed was very entertaining. Though there were lots of restrictions meaning the cars weren't as exciting, underneath they were like spaceships with the technology. And a new breed of brilliant drivers like Colin McRae made it super competitive.
Here's a must watch video if you really want to get an idea of what Group B was like, and how the drivers were beyond mere mortals. The footwork in particular makes the V8 supercar equivalent look like a sunday drive. ruclips.net/video/wqREtbLe4sY/видео.html
@@Jordy120 It's incredible isn't it. His eyes get me too, absolute and utter focus and concentration. I remember watching that clip on an old VHS tape years ago and they were interviewing him beforehand where he was saying that these things were so incredibly fast that you literally had no time to think. If you stopped to think even for a second, you were too slow. To drive it was like a sixth sense sort of thing. Only a very few guys and one woman had the ability to drive these things in the manner intended.
I can still remember the day Henri Toivonen died. It was early summer in 1986 and i can even remember where i was at that moment the news came out of radio. What a talent he was. Absolutely the fastest driver at that time. He was also a real gentleman. RIP champion.
![Cody Johnson - I'm Gonna Love You (with Carrie Underwood) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/yy9PuYMU29g/mqdefault.jpg)
Audi sent Michele Mouton, a highly ranked rally driver, with a Group B Audi to the 1985 Pike's Peak hill climb. She, of course, destroyed the course record by 10sec and beat all the competition that year by 30sec. Mouton and Pat Moss (Stirling Moss's sister) are the 2 most well know women drivers in World Rally. FYI Moss was an Austin Healey factory driver.
Agreed .. also speaking about those record time racing at Pikes Peak when the up-hill race was not even paved even more dangerous.. everyone here talks about how dangerously the group-B rally was but Pikes Peak had fatalities as well, just like other forms of motorsport : F1, 24h- Le Mans, NASCAR, INDY 500, 8 figure, Dakar .. in fact al forms of motorsport starting from motor-bikes (Isle of Mann TT) to Go-Karts and up-wards ALL have dangerous situations with different awkward fatalities that had been seen.. so i really don't get this rapid hysteria of reaction to Group-B considering what i mentioned here.. if you were fan of that sport and you go there or watch live you will understand just like Europeans wonder what is with Wrestling dudes : from Hulk Hoogan.. to J.Cena - that grab chairs to smash the head of opponents in a freaking-hylarious-parranoic show-fight hitting the opponents with they head to the corners of the ring while the audience eat popcorn ? how is that considered sporty or even something legal to watch ?!! Box is a raw gentlemen fight has rules but wrestling is so stupid..
@@poplaurentiu4148 all the races you’ve talked about have tightened up rules and added more safety standards, more drivers were dying so they did there best to fix what they could, it wasn’t a boxing match it was an underground cage fight, cool but good people died, TT can’t really do much cause there’s only some much you can do to make a motorcycle safer, ie survive a 150+mph crash without any thing but a little bit of bike and your body for cushion.
@@Spearmint22425 Juan Fangio was asked by young reporter what was his greatest accomplishment in racing. His answer was "I'm alive".
I got to talk to her at Rally Estonia last year when i was a marshal there, she's honestly a really nice person and very passionate about the sport
Agreed, all I have to say is total BAD A’s!!
I was a teenager in the 80s and was obsessed with this. I did buy a 88 Mazda 323GTX which 4WD and little turbo motor that was built for rallying (and no ABS, airbags or TC back then) and it was such a blast.
These rally cars really started the ant-lag function of dumping fuel into the turbo to keep it spinning when off throttle.
You should also check out the Audi 90 that they ran in the IMSA series back then it was insane and Walter Rohl is a god at car control. (I still have the poster of it on my office wall).
Managed to see the IMSA Audi’s run in anger at Mid-Ohio the two years they were legal. Golden Age of IMSA GTP’s, GTO’s and GTU’s. The number of factory teams was incredible. Seems IMSA is back on that path again 🏁
A little trivia about Lancia in Group B: so apparently even producing 200 cars for open road was too annoying for Lancia, so they did a trick: When the inspection went to check the produced cars, they showed 100 of them, and then said to the inspection: "the other 100 are in a parking lot at the other side of the city, let's have lunch and we'll go see them after". While lunch was going on, employees of Lancia moved the 100 previously inspected cars to the other parking lot where the 100 remaining cars supposidly were, so that they could pretend they made 200 of them while making only 100. It actually worked
A Carmagazine measured the Lancia Delta S4 from 0 - 100 km/h (0 to ~62,14 mph) in 2.4 seconds ... on gravel/loose underground. That was Formula 1 acceleration on a tarmac racetrack at that timeperiod.
I'm fairly sure I read somewhere that the s4 fully turned up to max would make 1000hp
@@TheSpliffMaster I only know/read about the lastest evolution stage for Rallye-Cross and Hillclimb with 480kW ~650hp. But if anyone knows where to look this up I'd like to know.
Another thing, if you want to see a carjournalist from germany who is famous for never stop talking, going completely silent in a S4, here's a treat for you
ruclips.net/video/ecPzCTYaPew/видео.html
They're talking german, but you have unfiltered sound from the inside of the car, so turn up the volume and hope your ears don't fall off ;)
Also nice reaction and greetings from germany :)
Years ago I spoke to the rich and lucky owner of the Delta S4 ex Alen who raced in the 1986 Argentina Rally. He told me that that S4 exceeded 700 hp with boost
Semi-automatics are better known as sequential gearboxes.
For startup, you use the clutch as in a normal stick. After that, you can shift without clutch as long as you keep the rpm over a certain level, e.g. 3000rpm.
The gears are straight-cut with no syncro-mesh - not diagonally cut with sm like in a normal stick.
Therefore it can take more power - and causes that typical "wine" - like the reverse on a stick.
You can spot a seq box easily inside the car - instead of a stick you have an aluminum "tower", also known as "dog box". The knob on top is the moving part. It can be tilted forward and backward. Forward - shift down, backward - shift up.
The fact that people stand so close or on the road, the drivers have a way of dealing with that: They think of the people as bushes, so they can deal with almost hitting people..
I used to watch the group B rally when I was in my teens , when it went through Wales (UK). You could basically stand anywhere along the stage. There was a saying that went "rallying was for the boys, group B rallying was for the men. However, there was a female driver who could put anyone, especially in the group B rally to shame. Check out the legend, "Michele Mouton" she is the fastest female driver in the world.
Amongst her many achievements she went on to compete at the Pikes Peak Hill Climb in the mid 80's, winning the event and breaking Al Unser Jr's record on her second attempt. Something her american rivals didn't like at all, especially Bobby Unser who said some things about her to which she supposedly replied "If you have the balls you can try to race me back down as well." Hope that last part is true.
@@JoseMVelazquez Ye I know mate. The woman was a legend in a car, she is one of my all time favourite drivers.
@@lextex3280 tbh it would be spectacular if there was some kind of series about her life and motorsport, like netflix did with queen's gambit. no fiction can beat reality, and michele was really just a monster! imagine how amazing it would be to watch
@@gustavogoesgomes1863 I totally agree, that would be awesome to watch.
The claimed HP was so much less than the actual power. The drivers were claiming 0-100kph (62mph) in around 2.3 seconds. The skill of these drivers was insane.
Juha Kankkunen was one of the best also in rallying, he lives near my place and once i saw him at local store we started to talking about Henri Toivonen.. kankkunen is one of the legends and one of the most skilled drivers ever. also my father built most of his house with Juha's brother (which was drunk all the time :D)
Asking who is crazier? In finland during the rally we have people as security guards who yell "AUTO POIS ALTA" so in english "CAR, LEAV or STAY AWAY" which usually means that viewers needs to step back a little from the road :D
You should watch Walter Röhrl with the Audi S1 at Pike Peaks. This Man is a LEGEND. Not without a Reason every Formula1 Driver admires him.
the MG6R (the Metro) was actually banned from the British rally Championchip and even from Group B
i bet its somewhere down in the comments .. the turbolag was undone the same way by Walter Röhrl by staying on the throttle and braking at the same time as mentioned in the video..
.. and he also had his clutch hydraulics coupled to a button so he could change gears without using the clutch pedal and a lot faster (no automatic)..
That 5 cylinder turbo quattro fluttering with the blowoff valve is so iconic.... :-)
audi played a lot with the 5 cylinder engine (also high speed records), they even went from the standard 5x4 = 20V to a 25V version at some point...
The big issue with the spectators was the amount, 500,000 would turn up on a stage.
i had a peugeot 205 in 2000 as a first car , 24 years later , still driving a peugeot 207 and it s a great car , easy to fix , economic , well balanced
I think he calls "semiautomatic" to secuential gears, which is basically still manual (cluch is still there). As I understand it, semiautomatic gears are basically secuential without clutch pedal.
I marshalled on club rally in the 90s where some of these cars raced. I always loved the Ford RS 200 - absolutely beautiful.
I still have cognitive dissonance over the MG 6R4, it's no Mini Metro.
French 80's guy here (yes I'm old)
The 205 is legendary for sure but in terms of badass looks and perfs (proportionally) the R5 T2 has always been steps above to us here. Most models are owned by American collectors now which is (no offense) sad, in a way.
Check on it, it's just amazing.
That's interesting about the centre of gravity in the peugeot 205, similar to a modern tesla, with the weight mounted as low as possible between the front and rear wheels.
I’m not sure but i think i heard in another video that these group b drivers would visualize the spectators as trees so they don’t get too nervous driving to close to them.
"Rally driving s something that is not big in America..."
I always thought it was one of the most popular motorsports up there on a top list with NASCAR and Indy.
On Rally stages that run over 10 miles through the country side, you can not build fences through the woods...
Notably, the Lancia Delta went on to be a great noise in Group A despite the tragedy at the end of Group B.
NASCAR needs a Group B. Imagine the possibilities.
Lancia Delta Integrale EVO...the most beautiful street version of a champion rally car...
The Delta S4, instead, was only a monster...
Check out the Lancia Stratos. It was specifically built for Group B Rally. There were very few, if any built for the street. I THINK Audi actually invented full time AWD for autos during this time. just wish that there was a way to keep up with WRC at the time. We only heard about the WRC after the fact, along with F1 and Le Mans. It was SO fascinating! But, no way to keep up with it. I was born in 1964, so I also had no way to keep up with it. Check out Steve McQueen's movie LeMans! You will LOVE it!
This driver 61 channel who uploaded the video is a highly recommended for autosport knowledge
In the late 80s the Peugeot 205 GTi was a very cool car.
"WRC is for boys, Grou B was for men" Juha Kankkunen .... well and Michelle Mouton...
If anyone wondered where some of the Group B cars went, Rallycross was the answer. It's still mad now!
The 80's had the misfortune of having beautiful cars and no power. 80's race cars are the sexiest things.
The Lacia 037 was turbo and supercharged in later days
Henri was good on track too. With that Lancia rallycar he drove fast on track and would have been 3rd on F1 time attack on same track.
Peugeot was actually sold in the us, up until '91 that is
Bro there are accounts of drivers or technicians pulling out hair (with skin attached) and fingers out of spoilers and air intakes
Those packed roads you always see in 'group' B are takken (most of) in Portugal. But again dodging bulls is a national sport. Early 80's it was a big event, until two people died, in an accident. But by them, it was usual to say : "WRC is for boys, Group B was for men"!.
Take care!
ruclips.net/video/5U0xdyoFqxc/видео.html
Portuguese fans were mental on the roads when they just got down to close to the cars . that's in the video
These were some of the coolest cars ever created.
It's annoying that group b was banned because of the deaths not only the drivers but the crowds
Audi s1 sound was eargasmic
The lancia was also rear wheel drive only
Most skilled....you might want to watch Isle of Man TT. Its still going strong today.
Thank you for pronouncing lancia correctly sweet Jesus im glad someone else knows 😂
This is a racing format that I wish they would bring back maybe you know put a little bit of limitations on it so that way it's not as dangerous and set up and set up barriers so that way You don't go into the crowds or I don't know don't have the crowds literally right on the side of the road
my favourites cars are the lancia stratos, Delta s4, Delta integrale evo II, the citroen xsara, the best driver is Sebastian Loeb
Let's appreciate moment when American guy pronounced name of Italian manufacturer better then English guy!
well health and savety slowly manages to ruin all the fun . i dont want to say that we have to set up stuff where many people die but a few dead a year are worth the fun its not like the people didnt knew what they are doing
This group B cars the power its betwen 500 HP , and 600 HP , in the 80's they are too fast to drive
i think you had peugeot in the 80 because of groub b and when it stopped they came to pikes peak that a video to watch to in a 405 i think
For epic group b footage check out 'too fast to race'. You won't be disappointed;)
Check out the lancia o37 rally car told by Jeremy Clarkson. It's a good one
I love the Renault 5 Maxi,, even if it was not awd,, tho the style beefy hot hatch on steroid!
Henri Toivonen Rest in peace
henry toivonen had a bad fever when he crashed he was not 100% sharp
You're not wrong when you say rally drivers are the most skilled. Truer words have never been spoken. These lads ( and lasses ) make F1 drivers look like Miss Daisy
This is the kind of American I really like! Curious about the world, at the same time he is proud of his own country! Respectful, and kind 🙂
Henri Toivonen's death was the catalyst for change to group a. F1 in the 1980's got up to 1500hp in qualifying mode. Toivonen was to rally what Senna was to F1.
The original audio was really heart breaking, hearing the marshals fight between each other and the poor marshal trying to call it in screaming at them to move their backsides and get it into gear and get to the scene asap. There was a lot of incompetence in the marshals back then and no cohesive team work.
It has been changed and cut i think for respect to the dead and its difficult to hear the original audio.
@@theghost6412 I don't think the marshalls could have done anything. I mean, considering it was well off the road on a rally stage and burst into flames on impact because of the inadequate design of the fuel tank.
@@arconeagain they should not however taken as long as they did to get to the scene of the accident. They didn't mobilize immediately which is what you expect for a team of Marshals to do, they are on standby at any second for a reason. They took far too long to get there, whether they could do anything or not. That alone brings questions, did they have a chance to save them?
@@theghost6412 no chance, watch the amateur footage.
@@arconeagain oh I have watched it a hundred times many years ago, just dumbfounded how ill equipped and slow they were. That accident itself was fatal from the get go, but there truelly was no excuse for the marshals. They were somewhere else on the course, which brought to attention how understaffed they were. They were not prepared to even look after the event. There was a massive backlash and huge reform of how races are conducted after this fiasco in all other classes. They really failed this one. Whether they could do anything or not, it was inexcusable.
Jeremy Clarkson does a great segment on top gear about how group B came to be, and the fight between Audi and Lancia to be the best while bending the rules to get there.
BTW the Lancia tube role cage was cardboard tubes made to look like metal to save weight, making the drivers even more crazy.
My friend its in the grand tour series :)
It wasn't, it was just weak. Read between the lines of show storytelling
@@francescober Not even between the lines, Clarkson literally says “I’m not saying they did this, but if you look at the wrecks from crashed Lancias you can see they weren’t exactly strong” or something like that.
Moving cars between car parks, salting the track, not entering rallies they would lose then entering multiple cars on rallies that they would destroy.. Gotta love Lancia
tube roll cage made of cardboard tubes ? cannot believe that
Where did you find that statement ? is that not criminal ?
Gday Ian. Great clip. Those Group B cars were absolute beasts. I reckon rally drivers are THE best drivers. Take a Go Pro drive with one and be prepared to need new underwear quickly!!
I think the same, rally drivers are a whole different beast
Been in the car with Ken block for a demo rally stage, yeah the guy processes things at an insane pace.
Granted I wasn't the first guy to take a ride that day but even when he has the track memorized it's pretty damn insane the car control that he has.
Shame that car burnt to the ground.
@@dabh4204 well that is why some if the finish formula 1 drivers were also ralley drivers…
Race of champions results would support that claim.
Mostly rally drivers that win
ride with one I want to drive the car specially the rs200 and the rallycross cars
I was a mechanic for a group N team during 1986. The group B cars were incredible. You need to see the video of Marku Allen driving the Lancia 037 on the 1000 lakes rally. Pure mastery of the car and terrain. Keeping the 2 wheel drive Lancia ahead of the Audi's on the gravel stages!
Y ganar el mundial del 83 !! Incluido Montecarlo , Córcega y..... Grecia !!!!!!! A los Audi
037 is so recognizable, amazing car and definitely my all time favorite rally car. ❤️
16:36 Thats Markku Alen
Literally every car guy who finds out about GroupB late into the game
"Oh wow! This is fucking amazing! I love these cars!!! What a fantastic series!!!!!"
"Oh shit... Yeah... That had to stop. Wow..."
But in the end, we all find one car from Group B in particular that we add to the "dream list" of cars we would gladly own.
Was fun watching you discover this part of automotive history.
Exactly.. the famous Ken Block started all his Gymkhana and rally saga because Group-B.. all improvements we see on most ice-cars ( before the full EV era starting to grow ) like all wheel drive traction, semi-auto gearbox, different suspension packs shocks coils & dampers, electronic hydraulic hand-brake, all these have improved a lot in daily road cars because of raw testing and data collected from the WRC Group-B.. and the Group-B was not the most evolved form since that suppose to follow in the Group-S that should follow next year but since Group-B got banned by FIA, Group-S was ditched as well before we got the chance to see how good the innovation would improve the performing in this form of motorsport.. WRC & Rally-Cross..
Just one?
The Toyota MR2 concept car for me that Or the Ford 2000 I think it was called
@@swakage13x ford rs200
All this cars in my list =). But quattro... ehh =)
The crazy part? The FIA was thinking of one-upping Group B with the even more bonkers Group S prototypes. A bit over 900 kg + 600 bhp in race trim + snow, gravel, dirt + those crazy spectators . . . I mean, what could go wrong?
And then Toivenen and Cresto's horrific accident.
Lancia fanatic here, ever since the Fulvias and especially the Stratos. For Group B it was the 037 for me.
Its sad. I feel like they could do it again today. We have so much more in terms of safety, they could avoid certain stages and restrict spectators of course. It would be incredible to see today, and to see burgeoning innovation. FIA wants to go electric though
Yes group S, Audi for example had a prototype mid engines pure race car for that class there are videos on RUclips where you see it driving
I gather Group S prototypes from a few manufacturers exist. The Audi of course and a Toyota MR2 group S car I gather exists.
Group S would make the sport even better.
Not The S4?
My dad was big into rallying when I was a kid in the 80s so I got the see these as a really small kid. But they were just too powerful, particularly for the stages they were driven on. Later research actually showed that changing scenery was at times coming at the drivers so fast that it was physically impossible for the human eye to properly focus fast enough. And the last interview Henri Toivonen gave before the accident is just haunting. Talking out of the window of his car he complained that the daily distances raced in the Corsica rally were just too much in these cars, the interviewer asked (paraphrasing from Finnish) "The human body can't take it?", Henri replied "The human brain can't take it" and drove off.
@Myrkky100 This put a lump in my throat.
The spectators were definitely the crazier, in some countries it was considered a badge of honour to actually touch the car as it went past. There's at least one anecdote about mechanics finding a spectator's finger caught in the bodywork at the end of a stage...
The Renault was only 2WD, it predated the Quattro, but still had the engine in the middle like the later Peugeot.
The Metro 6R4 was 4wd and was normally aspirated, so no turbo lag. When Group B ended there were still many 6R4s sitting around unsold, so they became a cheap go-to for European Rallycross. The engine was eventually developed for use in the Jaguar XJ220.
Despite the legendary power of the Group B cars, it was only a few short years before the more production-based Group A cars like the Lancia Integrale and Ford Escort Costworth were posting faster stage times...
ruclips.net/video/Zz472ocDJjc/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/cDRkHXMHqFo/видео.html
there's an actual video on youtube regarding group B rally that actually shows the fingers pulled out
from the Peugeot factory explained why they are competing in the Rally
when they invent a new thing they need to test it ...
but all factory tests are "under controlled conditions"
so the only real place is Rally
Paris - The Dakar Rally and Group B were a testing ground for the technologies we have in cars today
The factory said that the stresses on the chassis and parts during one race that lasts about 7 days, they need 3-5 years of "testing" in the factory
The cars were extremely expensive, up to $ 1 million apiece
there was no saving, victory is important, but also the test of parts
today’s sport shock absorbers were developed in Rally races
4x4 drive
semi-automatic transmissions
turbochargers that pulled over 1000 hp from 1500 cc
and so on
The fingers is no Joke..... it was common to find fingers in the middle of the body panels....
I had a run on nordschleife with walther röhrl..... there are no words to describe the terror and fear you go throu when he is "going easy" ..... the moment he switches to "racemode" you want to die.... BUT also you feel absolut secure and save.... cant explain it....
Best 7 minutes of my live
You are a lucky person, to be driven easy and also in full attack mode and feel those thrilling exciting moments in same vehicle with such great legend..
rohrl is a legend, no wonder you want to die but feel safe at the same time lol
There is one story on the nordschleife... Walter Röhrl beat Michel Schuhmacher, past him, .... both drive the same typ Porsche. 😉
damn you are lucky
@@friedhelmmunker7284 Ferrari 599 it was
I remember these races in Spain. You could hear the next car coming minutes before you could see it due to the huge amount of curves.
Me and my buddies used to get up very early to get a spot in the best curve.
I can tell you that nobody was there to sabotage any driver. Everybody there just wanted to see the next car passing faster than the previous. It didn't matter if it was your favorite driver/car. All you wanted is to see the next car sliding with the throttle fully open. I fucking miss those races 😁
I vividly remember waving at the drivers in Group B cars as they were transitioning between stages in the Rally New Zealand.
They ALL would wave back and the cars were just incredible.
The noises they made would send shivers down your spine but NONE could hold a candle to the AUdis. Their 5cylinder engines just sounded like perfection!
It’s my dream to own a replica s1 e2! That sound is too ridiculous. The 5 cylinder Audi TTRS can even sound almost like it!
Audi RS3s sound very similar to the S1 Quattro. I heard one on the street through my earphones ALL WHILE BLASTING LOUD MUSIC and I had to turn around to check if there really was a Group B rally car near me, because that Audi I5 engine... Man, it literally sounds just like the rally car does on videos and in racing games, like Assetto Corsa and the Dirt series! It's a shame they aren't competing in the WRC right now.
@@tomislavvazdar3286 really? I heard a TTRS and even at low rpm it sounded like the Quattro, I gotta get one!!
I remember the group b cars and their noise too. The Audi sounded glorious but they all could be heard after they passed you for ages afterwards as they barked and banged through the forestry. Personally, I loved the noise the Metro 6R4 made, it was unique.
I checked out the Manukau Super stage. in 87 I think
As a Finn, I can't help but blurt out that during the short reign of Group B three Finns won the World Rally Championship: Hannu Mikkola (Audi Quattro), Timo Salonen (Peugeot 205) and Juha Kankkunen (Peugeot 205). They could drive...a little.
As an Aussie I'm in awe of the Finns in all sports esp rallies. I'd marry a Finnish woman in a heartbeat.
@@Chapps1941 As an Argentinian, me too man, me too 🥰
Like they say in car sports: If you want to win get a Finn
Finns and Rally mix like.... Sebastians and Rally I guess
Kankunnen was my inspiration. Quiet, cool and shite hot behind the wheel.
I loved watching Group B when I was a kid. Personally I think it's the co-driver sitting next to the driver, giving directions that had to be the craziest.
There was a French woman named Michele Moutan that could run with any of the men. She just needed to finish the stage to win the championship, But she had a mechanical failure and came 2nd.
That was the lady who had to deal with the death of her father if I remember correctly in that championship.
One hell of a lady and awesome driver to boot.
She's lucky she came at all. The men are usually spent well before that. :)
After Group B was banned from Rally, some cars were repurposed for rally raid or Hillclimb races. Michele Mouton raced (and won) Pikes peak hillclimb race in 1985 with a heavilly modified Audi Quattro, setting a new record time. Bobby Unser Jr (one of the local racers) was pissed and the legend told he exchanged few word with Mouton who replied to him "If you have the balls you can try to race me back down as well."
After that, she's notably know as the co-founder of the Race Of Champions in honnor of Toivonen and Cresto. It's an annual race between various driver (Formula one, indycar, nascar rally, motorbike...) on a parallel track layout with different kind of cars (road going, rally, GT...)
Today, she's working at the FIA to promote women in motor racing
That was the legendary race between Michelle Moutan and Walter Röhrl. Were he admits today that it was a failure to win the championship.
@@axlm.808 Bobby was a meh indycar driver compared to Al Sr. and Al Jr.
was in my 20's when Group B was around in the 80's, and was a huge rally fan (even volunteered in the running of state and National events here in Australia) but Group B got hugely dangerous with a few European competitors crashing and dying which effectively banned the formula but there was still a lot of innovation like the semi-auto boxes , small wheel base also is a lot easier to spin in a hairpin then a long wheel base, cheers, Garry from DownUnder
Michele Mouton, one of the Audi drivers who came within about a point of being the first female World Champion, said of spectators something like "It is better not to hit the spectators because they might damage the car". You may know the name because she also set the outright record at Pikes Peak, back in the day!
she said she imagined the people as trees and you don’t want to hit trees
@@grendelum
Ah, thank you - the tree bit does trigger memories. Might have been another driver from back then?
Walter Röhrl beat her in a rear wheel drive Lancia when she drove her awd Audi Quattro... He even dodged many events like Finland because of all the jumps saying "I am a rally driver, not a pilot"
GW1......................they had a few commercials back in the day , and I wanted her to be my wife !!!!!!!!..............and I would have let her drive any time !!!!!
@@dannycalley7777 you know those 4 letters? starts with an S and ends with a P? you knows those two other letters in the middle? I and M? just asking..
Only in Europe do you get the crazy crowds like this. Nothing like these crazy scenes were experienced in Australia.
For as many years as they held it here, I used to volunteer for the Telstra Rally Australia WRC event. As much as we used to get on the roads to snap a cheeky pic, we never became the bunting! 😂
Mainly Portugal....... the other countries had crazy crowds but mostly on slow corners....
Portuguese fans wanted to be under the car when the car jumps.....
Well, Australia went crazy for ABBA.
Walter Röhrl was an absolute rally monster in that era
There is probably 5 people who could come close to his footwork in a racecar till this day
Was also definitely a unique character. I can't remember much of his quotes but he's let out some interesting stuff. Also if he had driven in all the rallies he would have been champ but he chose not to drive the rallies he didn't like. In example my favorite bit of the calendar (quite obviously if you read my username) rally finland, stating that if he wanted to fly he'd step on a airplane. xD
walter Röhrl audi quattro
the best pilote on groupe b
Best ever!
was yeah, but never dared to drive the Finnish rally which is the fastest gravel rally and the most jumpers. He reasoned that because he did not want to fly a car.
Walter Röhrl took a lap on the famous nurburgring "nordschleife" with a porsche and found himself in a battle with a Ferrari. The driver of the Ferrari made a small mistake and Walter took the oportunity to pass. Eventualy the Ferrari driver stoped him to congratulate......it was Michael Schumacher.
Walter Röhrl is an absolute legend!!
The next car from lancia, Delta, was twin charged, turbo AND support charged.
Group b cars typically ran with more than 500hp, they could dial it up to 1000.
0-60 times: 2.3 seconds. On _gravel_
Something they didn’t mention was what the manufacturers had on the drawing board which is one of the main reasons for changing the rules. Lancia had a mini sized Ferrari looking bodied supercharged twin turbo v6 4x4. It was nuts and the others were designing similar insane vehicles.
Great to watch but the rules needed to be changed.
It also screwed WRC for years. Lancia went on a five year run because noone would spend the money after getting burned by Group B ending. At the very tail end of Group B the big manufacturers started to spend F1 money. There were cars on the drawing board with astronomical costs to build and run. After Group B ended they mostly all walked away. They'd field underfunded teams just to say they were there, but when looking at the red on a balance sheet for cars that didn't even get to run they were just done. Leaving Lancia as the only company truly still competing. It almost killed the sport. It took years for companies to start trusting WRC again.
@@halycon404 imagine that even Ferrari was finishing a car for the Group B......
The 288GTO
@@MiTraFilipesoares Yeah because after Group -B suppose to follow Group-S with even more crazy mid-engines cars with more innovative tech kevlar & composites body panels like Audi Sport Quattro RS 002, BMW M1 Rally PRO-CAR, Lancia ECV1 ECV2, Lada EVA S, Peugeot Quasar 405 T16 turbo, Ford RS 200-S, Toyota MR2-222D, Mazda RX7S, Opel Kadett 4X4 E4S, Seat Ibiza Bimotor, Mitsubishi Starion 4WD Rally Prototype and Porsche wanted to enter with few 959 and above all Scuderia Ferrari tested the 288 GTO..
Now with such prototypes beasts in the pipeline, i think WRC would become even wilder & crazy.
you're talking about the legendary lancia stratos, the precursor of the 037. this car absolutely dominated it's time!! it looked like a mini ferrari, and actually the engines where v6 ferrari engines!! it wasn't a 4x4 though, it was racing at a time when there wasn't yet any 4x4 in ralleying.
@@sternschnupper no I’m talking about the never fully made car to follow. You can see the plans for it. The legendary stratos is massive in comparison. Look at the lancia ecv 2. Not a v6 but a 600hp 4pot.
Henri Toivonen tested his Lancia Delta S4 on a track that was also used by Formula 1. His best time would have qualified the Delta 'hatchback' 8th on that years F1 grid! The Delta S4 accelerated from 0-62mph in 2.9 seconds...on gravel.
Thats a myth sadly.
@@skrillah6259 Indeed it is. But as stories go, its a good one.
I was at Portugal rally when that accident happened in Sintra. The group B was amazing. Great cars, drivers and skills. The sensation when the cars passing by you is outstanding, your adrenaline and emotions climb to unimaginable standards. I was born in 65 and I've had great luck to see and living those moments . It's very hard to explain the feeling if you haven't lived that moment. Big hug
2 cars I always wanted during the 90s and early 2000s was Lancia delta Intergrale and the Ford Escort cosworth with the whale tail wing 😊 and to be honest with a lotto win, I’d have a cosworth in my garage for sure 😉🤣
Yeah, the Delta Integrale is often considered the top of the hot hatch list. I had the pleasure of driving a rented 1.9 205 GTi for a weekend and man was that a buzz.
@@johnvender I nearly bought one but it was white a GTI I mean. Big regrets from that 😩
Yeah the Escort Cozzie is a naughty car, Prob still my dream car....
I remember someone round my ways in the 90s, Got his hands on an Ex police Cozzie, F knows how but that was a 160mph monster....
The sound on it taking off I still remember, But yeah the Escort RS Cosworth, 2.0 DOHC is an amazing car, Not forgetting the Sierra lol....
@@mad-b264
The Cosworth Escort was just a shortened Cosworth Sierra anyways, at least mechanically.
@@skaldlouiscyphre2453 Yeah you is right, But still the Escort RS cozzie is a bad ass looking car, lol....
I grew up in Group B eras , to be able to watch rally so close was absolutely nut to compare, I still have my 205 GT I and drive it ocasionaly only to remind me those glorious era of rallying.
Group B was the most insane form of rally, go hard or go home racing at it's extreme
But, It was go hard and end up in a box
Kinda similar to the Irish road racing series and in particular, the isle of man TT.
Group-B was insane and very brutal indeed but not just for the crowds of people flooding those racing stages but for pilots as well since they suffer of total exhaust, pain in legs, arms & neck pain caused by focusing & concentrating hard on these stages, since the cars were so wild & brutal and too fast for them, they constantly need to adapt the brain to keep the car dancing on those rough rally stages and avoid the crowds that were there to cheer them, a quick mistake could call for a massive disaster.. super crazy but that was precisely what attracted the crowds to watch them.. also super weird is how nobody talks or reacts about other brutal races from South Africa, Kenya, Dakar with some derived cars from the Group-B beasts.. but that is the case for also plenty other form of Motorsport racing disciplines like Insle of Mann TT ? Dragsters ? Bonneville salt-lake deaths attempting to brake the land speed record ? Pikes Peak deaths ? Le-Mans deaths ? Indy -500 or Nascar ? F1 deaths ? anyone - no one ?.. interesting that only Group-B - WRC is the only racing motorsport discipline triggered..
Still like that modern wrc cars are even faster than group b.
@@skrillah6259 no
You have to realize that with any track racing, as the cars evolve, the tracks evolved too, providing adequate and enhanced security. In rallying, the cars evolved up to the genius madness of group B, but the roads remained the same... The same trees, same cliffs, same everything and the spectators came in droves (me too). Rallying started to get more popular even than formula 1, and not everyone was happy about this... Then the Toivonen accident in Corsica was the one tragedy that served as the best excuse to put an end to group B. We will never see any madness remotely approaching these up to 550 HP machines blasting through forests, country roads and villages, gliding at maximum speed through hundreds of thousand applauding spectators without even the slightest of safety measures! It was a different world back then for sure!
The big thing for the spectators was to touch the cars as they went past...apparently it was not unusual for service crews to have to remove fingers from bonnet and door shuts at service. PS The Lancia 037 is my all time favourite car.
Hi Ian, you are right about the Rallye situation employing the best drivers. I say this because most driving involves traction, then it gets loose and they recover. Rallye is the opposite in most stages whereby the drivers are in a very loose environment, so they are sliding most of the time. Group B was like unlimited class, hence the video title. I know Nth America refer to your continent as 'The World' but WRC is World Rally Championship, including ALL of the World except Nth America, tho Kenny from the Block had a short stint. Lots of fantastic drivers during this class and currently. Look up Walter Rohrl, who drove for Lancia amongst others - there is a bit of footage available about him! Here is a great clip from inside the car, showing what the driver sees, plus you get to listen to the Nav reading thru his pace notes, as the driver must know what to expect before he gets there. ruclips.net/video/0YtcA8v-6g8/видео.html ruclips.net/video/bK_toF3uDt8/видео.html Cheers mate.
Rally was a huge TV sport in the UK when I was in my teens in the 80’s. It was great to see these cars going like stink in the Welsh mountains, pitch black and snowing! Got to watch the Peugeot, MG 6R4, Ford RS200 go against each other in Rally Cross (a made for TV sport where cars run with each other on rally-like custom tracks). These things could do 0-60 in under 3 seconds in the 80’s
the old Lancia's was the so unsafe.. Italians trying to save weight and money aren't good for drivers safety.
But they were soooo fast, so well made on the days they were working. God blessed Lancia to be the best rally maker in history.
Here in Scandinavia, one rally stage is going outside the kinder garden my little sisters and brother went to.
So well made on the days they were working really doesn’t make sense champ.
@@murray7584 it does when you remember it's Italians who made it^^
Ok I see what you’re trying to say. Well, they must’ve worked quite well then quite a lot of the time, judging by their success.
@@murray7584 you know Henri Toivonen? have you seen his car? that lightweight that made them great, also killed them. Just ask Walter Rühl, he was smart, so he still here so you could ask him...
The Lancia S4 was BOTH turbo- and supercharged!
The 80's & 90's was a wild time for rally, world rally driver's loved coming to Western Australia because of our world famous pea gravel, real shame world rally stopped coming to Perth.
Best way to describe rallying is driving as fast as you can, on a road you have never driven on before, relying on verbal directions. They really are the most skilled drivers.
Yes, the fact there are no practice laps, only a recce in a road car for pace notes is mindboggling.
WRC is the greatest motorsport on earth. Group B was insane but needed to be stopped.
The really impressive thing about group B is that only a few years earlier people were renting standard cars, sticking numbers on them, winning occasional stages, then removing the numbers and returning them to the rental company.
Rallying hasn't had great coverage in the UK since the nineties unfortunately.
You should look up the Metro 6R4. It was hilariously bonkers. Pretty much an angular Mini (for anyone who has no idea what a Metro is...) with big arches, four wheel drive and a transversely mounted engine with a few hundred horsepower.
Group B was what turned me into an Audi fan, 😤 this gets me pumped and wishing that they would bring group B back, with safety improvements but let the manufacturers go wild
Great video.
Living on this side of the pond, I'm a Rally fan since childhood.
Lancia Stratos and other Lancia Models were amazing.
Peugeot the small 4Wd and featuring a Turbo and a Supercharger was really state of the art.
Renault had several models, my favourite being the Alpine. The Porsches couldn't just compete.
Alpines are very popular road sport cars, worth looking them up (You tube has several videos about them)
One of my friends here in Portugal, a Car-guy with an impressive coplection, owns an Alpine -- winner of the Monaco Rally.
However, he was not the driver behind the wheel -- after the Rally, he purchased the vehicle from the Factory .
Somo F1 drivers took the seat beside the drivers and got a taste of the action.
Deeply impressed and kind of scared at the end of the show...
Would love to see something similar happen now. Its my favorite motorsport but I stopped following it after the Evo, Subie days. 1200kg min , 600hp max. Special stages and an amount of bitumen , like a long distance rallycross. Bring it !😎👍
i saw the S4 racing and obliterating all competition. it was a real monster, over 600hp.
i drove many times the delta integrale evo, the road version of course, that took over where the S4 left. best car ever, bar none.
the most impressive were the night stages, and the sound of these cars was so loud that we felt it in our whole body when they passed 1 meter away from us.
The mid eighties was the high light of my rally experience. I was racing motorcycles at local events and was always interested in Rallycars. After spectating at several local events here in the Pacific Northwest I was able to find the right people to help me get involved and eventually enter some events. Most US rallies were run at night only. After a couple years. I was asked to drive one of the two pace cars for Toyota in the Olympus rally in 1985. Which was the first world class rally that came to the USA. What a great opportunity. At that time I had no idea that Group B would become such a special era in the sport. I remember how excited I would get telling friends about these factory supported rallycars. How cool they sounded. Of course most people here in the states admired muscle cars and couldn't imagine a little four cylinder making the sounds I would try to describe. It's really only now with RUclips and guys like you presenting this special time in motorsports that some of these people are waking up to what they missed back then. I will always cherish the first hand experience of these crazy exciting cars...... Cheers
The group A era that followed was very entertaining. Though there were lots of restrictions meaning the cars weren't as exciting, underneath they were like spaceships with the technology. And a new breed of brilliant drivers like Colin McRae made it super competitive.
Here's a must watch video if you really want to get an idea of what Group B was like, and how the drivers were beyond mere mortals. The footwork in particular makes the V8 supercar equivalent look like a sunday drive.
ruclips.net/video/wqREtbLe4sY/видео.html
Amazing stuff! It's like he's tap dancing.
@@Jordy120 It's incredible isn't it. His eyes get me too, absolute and utter focus and concentration. I remember watching that clip on an old VHS tape years ago and they were interviewing him beforehand where he was saying that these things were so incredibly fast that you literally had no time to think. If you stopped to think even for a second, you were too slow. To drive it was like a sixth sense sort of thing. Only a very few guys and one woman had the ability to drive these things in the manner intended.
@@brendanfromnz What you really need to watch is "Group B - The Age of the Supercar" best homage to Group B ever made.
I've always considered the Lancia Stratos the prettiest car on the planet. It's just perfect.
(And it went like a little rocket 🚀)
I can still remember the day Henri Toivonen died. It was early summer in 1986 and i can even remember where i was at that moment the news came out of radio. What a talent he was. Absolutely the fastest driver at that time. He was also a real gentleman. RIP champion.