China, Patriots, Drones and AI
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- Опубликовано: 15 май 2024
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China is most likely built a lookalike replica of a Patriot missile system because most pictures of the Patriot are taken from the ground, and it needs training data to train its drone and loitering munition algorithms.
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China is most likely built a lookalike replica of a Patriot missile system because most pictures of the Patriot are taken from the ground, and it needs training data to train its drone and loitering munition algorithms.
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are we already at war if unconventional warfare tactics are used? it is just a cold and a quiet war... think about it.
I suppose altering the ‘look’ of a target could fool AI?
I don't know if you need to use GPS you could use a satellite with multiple laser communications that would be hard to jam wouldn't it?
Saw an article about China warning the US abut AI drones and they stated they were working on them too. Can't post link.
china will figure out some way to cram 5G in with their AI drones, they seem to be really into that combo!
"why is china training ai to attack air defence?"
"well, they have goals to take things by force from people"
I mean in all of my disdain for china... this is reasonable (although considering AI can be fooled with a cardbord box its may be less so)
@@georgyekimov4577what do you mean?
i mean isn't thats what all military for?
@@monkeylee4818 It depends, systems like the Patriot can only shoot down flying objects and take time to set up, so they are understood as defensive systems.
Now if you get those systems in the hands of untrained proxies they will shoot down civilian planes but Taiwan can't bomb China with the Patriots they received.
@@iotaje1 well trainig AI to disable an expensive and valuable asset using drone swarms is a good idea the problem is that AI is not very smart and can be fooled easily for exaple if the launcher would be covered in a box that completely changes its appearance like a metal gearesque cardbord box
This just in: Raytheon has announced that all future Patriot systems will be reconfigured to look like S-400s.
I wonder if their training data and algorithms will be good enough to discriminate from decoys.
But for the price 1 patriot launcher and however many decoys, the cost of building that many drones to hit thar one launcher would be still be a net win
Then China will have a much easier time training their drones to find those.
@@Panzermeister36they would just blow up their own launchers tho
Ryan, 4:08 when you said helicopter med vacs are going to be a thing of the past, it made me wonder if there is a drone system out there like your blood delivery but instead it's basically a flying stretcher to fly wounded solders out? If not, maybe an idea run with it.
If deterrence fails we'll need some yellow paint and 3D printed add ons to make those box containers look like bananas.
I unironically had a similar thought. Wouldn't attaching ridiculous appendages like rainbow colored cardboard cut out shapes to whatever equipment confuse the AI targeting systems?
@@HyzersGR Your idea of rainbow colors just made me think of Dazzle Camouflage and those billboards that change design as your perspective changes. A shifting mess of colors would probably stand out starkly to a human observer but maybe cammo that changes based on perspective would be used to mitigate learning programs
It would be better just to shoot a laser at it which would blind the visible light camera on the drone.
Also, it is incredibly easy to jam a drone due to their low voltage battery packs, so the radio can’t emit a powerful signal
@@mitchconner403the whole point of ai-powered drones/munitions is they are self-contained and don't need any radio control or gps. Their chassis is a faraday cage
@@defenestrated23 no, if you blind the camera then it can’t read any telemetry from the camera to make the computer vision algorithm work.
The camera is on the drone.
If you have a cameras and flash a very bright light at it then the camera will just see a static image therefore it can’t target
Just take your iPhone camera and flash I light into it then you will see what I am talking about.
Except image it is a huge laser
Then the autonomous systems won’t work on the drone, then it needs to be jammed to avoid using a “datalink” to hit the target or a manual operator
It is a 1, 2 punch combo
"GPS will be degraded...satellites destroyed" Stay around long enough and what was old is new again. I recall hearing US doctrine expected all satellites to be out of commission in first 20 minutes of conflict with Soviets. That is why first cruise missiles used radar maps.
I understand that the current trend is to use simple inertial nav with periodic drift correction via image recognition (of landmarks). The image can be collected passively with optical or thermal camera, or with radar.
To avoid hitting the ground when doing LO mission ground proximity radar is pulsed when over areas least likely to have radar detection available. So all this can be put together for say $2000 and 1 lb weight.
The most urgent thing now are drone killing drones. And other drone counter measures.
Now that Cube Satellites exists.
Most satellites are cheap, numerous, and form massive constellations
The only way to get them all is a Call of Duty MW2 nuke in the Ionosphere. If that happens then we have bigger problems than no GPS 😂
Hacking satellites are a thing of the past due to encryption happening on the FPGAs on the satellites. Ignoring quantum computers brute forcing the asymmetric key.
You can only jam so many satellites because you need a ground station with a direct radar sight to the satellite.
China is only on one half of the world, so any repairs to the software and downlinking of intelligence data can occur almost anywhere
Plus we have New Zealand, England, and all of Western Europe’s ground stations to use.
Plus SpaceX like launches 100s of satellites every month, so it would be relatively easier to replace during a wartime economy
Get the 🪖 Back training 🧭 reading 🗺️! GPS 🛰️ Will be Degraded when 🇨🇳 fighting, look up the Retired Marine Lieutenant General "Paul Van Ripper" a fucking Legend
Who are you and why are you making sense?
@@williamcollins2327 Sorry. I'm an engineer and it's showing again. 🙃🤓
I find the phrase “loitering munitions” one of the most terrifying phrases of the modern age.
Maybe putting up a no loitering sign will prevent such munitions from causing harm? That logic works in other places...
They are the next generation of Mines.
@@Steamrunner Amazing life hack 👌🤣
If these loitering munitions get cheap enough it could be manufactured in the Millions.
Until the battery dies, or the craft runs out of fuel
I foresee Chinese drones flying around & not spotting any Patriots but hearing some chuckling Marines saying, "Trust me, it works beautifully. Just keep watching - it's hilarious," to the Army crew after dressing up the Patriot batteries in cardboard boxes, watching & laughing as the drones dart around like a bunch of bats gone deaf.
Only works until the next software update. Image recognition on boxes doesn't even need AI.
the metal gear approach
fantastic
@@j.f.fisher5318 You missed the news report?
I dont think it will work ... if the AI is only use for terrain tracking(imagine painting the mountain or charge the significant terrain features) and data transimission compression than target identification ... so think about this right now 5.8GHz tranmit about 50M-Bit D-log data from DJI ... if I can use AI to compress this data even more like 5M using some transformer network, then the frequency hopping channel on 5.8GHz increase from 8 channels to more than 80 channels ... or I can even use 580MHz instead of 5.8GHz to transmit 1080p-100fps data. So the broadband means I can fit as many signal channel as I want between 580MHz-5.8GHz
And I can see the laser gyro popping up from your backyard as Chinese auto companies are very agressive in researching and starting to adopt the laser gyro (very similar to F16) as standard to monitor the dynamics of the car for autodriving. With laser gyro or fiber-optics ones you can expect miles+long duration accuracy and very low drift: aka they dont really need much of updating the location
So dont worry ... they are already thinking about to defeat your idea of camo.
@@MultiYlin You completely missed the joke.
AI can't solve a captcha. just paint the patriots like a crosswalk, a motorcycle, or a traffic light. Problem solved
@RustyB5000 ai drones can learn to distinguised from mock up at the real thing. i love how usa fear China rise
Uhm...AI is continually learning how to break captcha, which is why captcha is continually getting more and more irritating. Soon captchas will be so complicated, that *only* AIs will be able to solve them 😂😂😂
An AI can solve a captcha
Also, with the way captcha works then it can constantly refresh the puzzle until it can find one that it could solve.
I actually did that for my Machine Learning class when we covered computer vision
Sneaker bots have been solving CAPTHAS for years.
@@mitchconner403 lol so DDOS page basicly with refresh.
CoD Black Ops 2: *hunter killer drones*
Me: “damn that’s cool”
12 years later: *real life hunter killer drones*
Things surely gone real 0 to 100 real quick for four years
Everything you see in call of duty is probably based on a real life idea someone presented. When I first saw hunter killer drones I knew it was just a matter of time before they were easily replicated, now we have 3d printing.
@@hhlptf oh yeah no doubt, what this means is that as a dumb kid playing BlOps2 I just saw all this as crazy sci-fi tech and now I’m watch my childhood memories of chucking an AI powered drone into the sky for it to come down and eliminate a target come to life. It’s kinda like how retro-sci-fi has concepts that seem absolutely outlandish for the time to be something that we all almost can’t live without.
Mr. McBeth, this inspired an idea I had for your Aeromed technology. Could a medic carry a foldable cloth, maybe the size of a pillowcase, with a unique pattern on it, then when they call in a drone they can give a unique identifier that matches that pattern so the drone specifically looks for it?
You could have many hundreds of combinations of patterns and a rotating reference or verification carts to prevent enemies from using captured ones, etc.
Definitely, though it'll probably be something like a QR or Data Matrix code.
Or an IR emitter that pulses a specific code, think morse code
So hypothetically, the US or Allies could build mock ups of Patriot systems too and surround it with counter measures.
maybe get a camouflage blanket on real ones to break the shape.
Or just paint them Barbie pink...
Exactly cover the launchers in a 200$ cardboard box and you fool 150.000$ drones and save millions in equipment
There are almost certainly some mock-up Patriots in Ukraine right now.
@@lucios_7266 that's a brilliant idea untill you realize that you can't shoot missiles through the cardboard box and you cant use radar through a cardboard box either.
doesnt work if you paint it emma 2 mums pink because ai drones can distingush if it is a mock up or not
@euunul
You don't need cover the whole thing in that Mr. Genius 😂😂😂🤣
Just some parts of the whole battery need to be covered so Chinese drone gonna be spoiled! Are you sad about it? 🤣🤣😁
The fun part of AI. It can't exactly tell you how it knows, but it knows what it's looking at.
not anymore. It's somehow decoded, not 100% but much better understood now
And everyone thinks they know exactly what human consciousness is. But the fact that there is so much disagreement proves nobody actually knows.
Some AI is now "explainable".
It knows what it is because it knows what it isn't
Ryan explination of Cosine similarity is pretty good. That is how it generates a probability of what it knows. This is not unlike human recognition. The more we see something in different views, lighting conditions, etc. the more we are likely to properly recognize it the next time.
In 1941 Japan "awakened the sleeping giant and filled him with a terrible resolve" , if in our time China destroys their beloved internet by taking out our satellites Gen Z will awaken and be filled with a terrible resolve.
There are 5800 fully functional Starling.Satellites, in order at this very moment with hundreds.Literally hundreds more ready to launch
No, PRC will tell Gen Z through TikTok to fight against its gov and the home of the free will be defeated.
@@stevewhite3424satellites provide a very very small fraction of the internet.
That said i give a ground based laser a week tops to take out all those satellites.
Or a fridge full of micro ball bearings detonated in low earth orbit.
@@zyeborm kessler syndrome would be rather effective. can only take out satellites over the horizon with a laser. but if your ball bearings turn enough satellites into debris themselves, you have millions of hypervelocity bullets in leo.
Without the internet gen Z will get bored and when they find out China is responsible they will begin heinous atrocities
So, what you're saying is, we should hide our Patriots inside giant bananas?
So hypothetically, the US or Allies could build mock ups of Patriot systems too and surround it with counter measures.
maybe get a camouflage blanket on real ones to break the shape.
Or just paint them Barbie pink....
All military equipment will be barbie pink and with rounded corners to make them kawai in the future, that way drones will not distinguish them😆
Yeh I reckon US mocking up its own systems would be a great counter measure. But every now and again they’d probably get lucky and get a real system.
Reminds of me before D-Day they made fake tanks, trucks and other equipment to confuse the Germans. Bet it all looked real from those aerial reconnaissance photos
The problem then you might get targeted conventionally? So the ai thing is just a complementary system.
@@TheZachary86 If your Patriot is seen, you have bigger problems.
@@TheZachary86 I was kidding about the color. But anything that breaks the shape can confuse an AI. The conventional method os what the actual Patriots shoot at.
Virtual warfare. No hardware. No kinetic. Just run simulations against each other. "And the winner is..."
That was a Star trek episode. "A taste of armageddon"
Always dropping quality videos!
I watched your video about the fake Patriot missile system yesterday. Decided to scroll RUclips tonight and lo and behold this video.
I didn’t even consider the possibility, but I’d be willing to bet you’re 100% correct.
I agree on this. The major issue i had training models for specific vehicles is like vehicles and overfitting. They need more styles and angles, teaching it to be to exact will cause issues, and in the future, I see camouflage for this equipment being next level. This Patriot launcher is going to look like a hotdog stand in the next war.
we are back to 80s... build real models of things to shoot with camera for computer to use :D
I just got a phone call from the electric company. They are going to be flying drones in my area to check on their equipment ahead of the fire season. They asked us to please don't shoot them down. Most of my neighbors just might. I live in Oregon, most of my neighbors spell it Oregun. Good thing they warned them. LoL
jeje who said skeet
If you neightbor shoots the drone down, send them your increased fire insurance bill.
worth mentioning, but the US already does this and has for some time. Hell the The Bofors/Nexter Bonus from 1985-1997 or the German SMArt 155 already does much of this around targeting tanks.
Last summer I went to the open house at Eielson AFB near Fairbanks AK. The Air Force had a complete mock ups of several Russian SAMs including an S-300. They're used to train pilots (and, no doubt, other things) so this isn't unique behavior.
Love to see you post again, Ryan. Love your videos!
China has been mapping the US and other countries for many years. Pretty much anyone that has a drone with a camera or a Chinese made camera is unknowingly helping China map the world. The images are sent to China before the user can save them. DJI cameras are one example.
You know they already do that with satellites, right?
@@totalNERD-eo7wx yes but drones offer more detailed images including a different perspective.
Now I'm just a Data Science student, who is more focused on the math behind AI than implementation, but I would humbly like to expand why having a model is beneficial, all the photos from the database have another thing in common, they are the center of attention in a war it is verly likely we wouldn't want our tools out in the open, additionally the ideas of lighting come into play, and also having drones that you are training taking the data is far better than the intermediary of a camera.
Don't skip your english classes. When they teach you what a period is you're going to be amazed!
Much awaited, much appreciated looking forward to excellent insights as always from you.
I remember a while back there was a training exercise where an AI drone turret was pitted against US marines; the AI was trained to target things that looked like soldiers, of course. What the Marines did was use pieces of cardboard to screw with their silhouettes, and move in weird ways, to confuse the AI into thinking they were trees.
Imagine if Patriot missile batteries defeated AI loitering munition drones by strapping pieces of wood and painting the equipment with strange camouflage patterns...
Very insightful and cutting edge. I'm glad that you are on our side. My assumption is that satori was your motivation.
Great video and very clear explanation thank you for the good information
What if the point of the balloons was to capture great top down pics of all the bases in west?
Satellites can take higher resolution photos. And of course. It can be running by Ai at the same time.
The balloon was to collect electronic signals.
Good information. Thanks!
Okay so change the shape of the Patriot battery, use cardboard and plastic to bypass recognition
That's actually a pretty good solution for missing data
I hope we'll be going back to Dazzle camouflage that thing looked dope!
Fascinating... As always 😊
Linear algebra put to good use.
Yours is now my favourite channel. Keep going 🫡
Mockup with flat tires too, or maybe a captured damaged vehicle stripped of all sensitive or copyable components.
1:51 Don't freak out!! Well thank you Battle for support and How you knew I was freaking out?
Looks like changing the outline of your valuable equipment is going to be important going forward
Your information is great
Drones will be gone just as fast as they became popular. Soon a jammer can bring down every drone above a battlefield. They are actually almost there
Simple counter... change the outline of the target with inflatable appendages.
We've built million dollar per shot missile defense. The response will be 20k a piece drone swarms that completely overwhelm air defense.
Patriot isn't the only Air Defence system used by the US. Those "$20k" drones have to get past Stingers and CRAM. Not to mention a handful of other SHORAD systems proven to be effective and in use by allies. The US military is already planning a response by developing a system to integrate ALL of it's Air Defense systems in an area to marry the best sensor to the best shot.
Great explanation. Big implications for helicopters and munitions.
"When you freeze the plasma it keeps the natural blood cold"
You can use both or just one
Finally, a video with HLC and Ryan has come. ❤
Fascinating video as always
So are there camo kits that will disguise the profile? It seems like it would be relatively inexpensive to do so.
2:32 A10 / orthodox cross, sounds like a callback to Red Storm Rising by Tom Clancy
Skynet goes live in 5, 4, 3, 2 …
Well done.
Damn call of duty black ops 2 takes place in 2025 and shows an ai-powered swarm of chinese drones. The game came out in 2012 and was spot on!!!
Whats the source of the video starting at 1:37 ?
Ryan McBeth knows about AI and drones... stogeys and pipework! he's studied the databases
If their AI tech is using a form of image recognition, then it would be worth making a lot of cheap fake Patriot battery decoys and cheap disguises for the actual batteries, and make the most decoys for the most expensive part of the system.
Because you think that and image sensor is bound to the domain of visible light - which is not the case as well as there are high quallity sensors at hand right now that will tell you the difference, however the current advantage is that the computing power is not available/energy efficient - except for the human brain.
It’s interesting to me that it is transported in the open. It wouldn't be that hard to throw some tarps over it, at least. I wonder what that tells us.
It tells us, that these guys are realistic in the assumption that a 5 eyes spy satellite will catch it anyway and the ai training is expected so it is no real secret even for people that do OS/int on a hobby level.
So much like building a cardboard army in the desert, the future of camouflage is wild and insane outline diffusing stuff. Like disguising a missle battery like a pack of hot dogs, or something ornate like the masthead of an old sailing ship.
The whole thing is for Saturation attacks, overwhelm air defenses by simply sending more than can be shot down by air defenses. We have a similar plan by putting missles on and or in everything and firing them from a safe distance (rapid raptor/dragon).
The difference is that the US/West is actually quite ahead in sensors and computational ability. It would take a lot more platforms from Russia or China to overwhelm their enemies than the opposite from the US.
Perhaps it might be good to make it so that one can add air bags that can be inflated to Patriot batteries and such would then significantly alter the apparent dimensions of the vehicle as seen form a UAV to make it harder for the AI to ID them.
Also, in regard to IR imagery it might be good just to add water sprinklers (like one might use to water the grass) to cool down parts of a vehicle so it might instead look like two or more smaller vehicles.
Ryan. Great video and explaination of how recognition works, and some of the issues. It makes sense that that there are all these images of "fake" launchers floating around.
I have a question about the medic drones. Why have a "push" system (forgive me if I'm misusing terminology) where you send out drones that look for wounded soldiers, instead of a "pull" system, where wounded soldiers or their buddies press an emergency button, that sends out their coordinates to the nearest medic drone, which flies automatically to the location, possibly with customized instructions and equipment depending on the wounded soldier's needs?
1.) the useful signal gets jammed
2.) your useful signal gets tracked by the enemy which knows exactly where to shoot - and hit "Jackpot" (because when there is a wounded comrade there are more in the near area = one strike -> multiple kills = Jackpot) - however even sending a drone is a risk - as we have seen in Ukraine where a drone was picked up and the person was traced to his hideout and a that was attacked.
3.) All armies have field kits with everything they need to treat - except for "blood" which needs to be cooled - this is the essential part
Not knowing much about the subject, ai recognition seems like it could be countered using some type of canvas or cheap bodywork modifications to a patriot vehicle to change the shape, is this correct? And if not any other ways to counter? Thx
Any idea why this thing has flat tires?
Perhaps to pass under a low bridge or any better explanation?
Seems like there's quite a future in producing cheap mock ups( inflatable?) for very expensive weapons systems. 20:1 ratio would work
Hey Ryan, do you think those drone can run the AI inside the drone or do they need a connection to a central server ?
What’s the writing on the gooseneck of the truck say?
I wonder how long it is before these AI systems can be trained to recognize photographs or video footage of an object based off of a single training 3D model (potentially with articulation) instead of thousands of training pictures.
@RyanMcBethProgramming - if the AI is configured to visually determine what various Patriot battery elements look like, if you draped, say, cammo netting over it to change its outline and make it visually different and also put up something to confuse its thermal outline... do you think this would foil Chinese drones and targeting systems? Or perhaps a nice big red star on the side to make it look like one of their toys to the AI? I'm not sure how sophisticated it will be (especially given the potentially disposable computational power required to run this in the air).
White storm trooper armor will be useful in the future
You are a sick puppy, Ryan. Good job!
Great video. Can you do this in a 3d engine like Unreal with accurate models instead of having to build a physical model?
Imagine if they were just making a prop for an action movie but we get provoked by it anyway 😂
The replica Soviet T-72 tank for Red Dawn (1982) was so precise that when it was transported to the studio, two CIA agents followed and wanted to know where it had come from. The plot, a Soviet/Cuban invasion from Mexico, was based on CIA and War College studies of US weaknesses at the time.
At one point Darryl F. Zanuck used real soldiers as extras for his 1962 ww2 epic “The Longest Day” and thus was briefly in command of the largest armed force in europe at the time.
Why does it have flat tires? Any suggestions?
This is interesting considering there's been a lot of reports of drone swarms over US bases and even ships in the past.
will my SiriusXM subscription still work during a drone arrack?
Lol. That suit picture.
Thanks
Thank you.
Sounds to me like dummy tanks may come back in style
Very interesting
Do you have sources for the claim that cosine similarity is used for telling if two images are the same?
I can only think of maybe using it in the latent space of say an auto encoder.
Just look up "2d fft cosine" and for the very visible demonstration of the concept just search youtube for "Fourier Optics used for Optical Pattern Recognition" - the connection between these needs transfer knowledge but when you have some practical math background its pretty straight forward.
They could always use the tech that BAE is developing. Search BAE invisible tank. Prepare to be blown away. Want the IR of a running Lada? No problem! How about a motorcycle? It's awesome to see.
Cobra Rattler in a Ryan McBeth vid, epic!
Drone swarms rock vs. Steel garden shed paper. Even with HMX or ONC I'm not seeing it as a huge problem for even moderately hardened targets. Invest in chain link?
So we need to create lots of dummy Missile batteries and also add "body work" to the real batteries to amend their shape.
3:22 Chinese tires 😹😹
*puts a camo net over the launcher* safe!
I guess the follow up question is, is it actually more efficient to build mockups than use something like a 3D render?
So does it still say inert on the side? And if so why would the Chinese put that kind of detail on it?
There are many ways to confuse or deceive AI systems, for example by concealing the launcher or by using decoy luanchers.
😂 "because your new mommy is way hotter than your old mommy" rofl. Completely caught me off gaurd, lol.
In this case, wouldn't a simple camo net be a good option for defeating AI drones, either by setting up over a target in varying configurations, or popping up decoy nets?
It's us thanking you🎉 Feels like I just got hit with a stroke of genius! Thanks!
Get the cost down to say $5000/drone , and even with a small “warhead” a 1000 drone ai drone swarm would be deadly and cheap at $5mil for a “strike” It would overwhelm any and all air defence systems, paving the way for manned aircraft and ultimately ground forces.
I don't want my bananas to shot down 😢.
Unreal engine 5 has become so good that it's now not unthinkable to start using virtual images to train AI models
1:17 So, you’re saying the drone knows where it is, because it knows where it isn’t.
Very accurate!
Wouldn’t you want to use spectral clustering to get image recognition data?
There is an $80 toy Chinese drone that does AI recognition, mostly people and vehicles. 😂😂😂