I was holding my phone right up to my eyes, taunting and screaming at it “oh yeah mf’er?! I’m right here! Come throw dem chips right in my eyes b*tch!” 😅
🤣 that time i accidentally cracked the machine glass wrongly using a ton of hex mighty-vice s They had like 14 pieces of aluminum flat on the table, with 4 vices each, that couldn’t be over tightened or buckle upwards 🥵
Don't forget that heat buildup is often non-negligible. Fast might be good but if the product gets too hot and gets ruined then you lose all the time saved and tools you already burned through.
Coolant only goes so far. It fixes 90% of heat buildup issues but you can still ruin a part. It s that last 10% that'll get you usually because those will be extremely precise with tight tolerances.
@@93lozfanindeed, the increased friction from running at high speeds can cause micro warps on the piece as it's being worked, and when such warps add up, they could render a precision piece completely useless. Lets remember that something normally tiny as "1mm" means the difference between a piece becoming a high precision masterpiece, or a modern """art""" lump of metal.
Running a blunt tool on inconel is a good way to put a hard as f*** skin on it that costs 10x the time to deal with. You can see the material discoloring from heat due to a blunt tool in this clip. Workpiece overheating will mess with your measurements, the machine will wear out faster, its noisy AF, the guy who takes over the machine next will be angry at a magazine filled with blunt tools and lose time changing them all, etc. There's more than just the tool life to consider.
LoL, messing up inconel is worse than breaking tools. How you even gonna get a block of fresh inconnel for even the cost of 10/20 tool replacements. Probably won't 😂.
It also depends on how many orders you have lined up. If you don’t have another customer lined up in queue it doesn’t make much sense to speed up the machine.
Думаю, речь больше о заводах, где "следующий клиент" в очереди стоит всегда. Согласись - 10 деталей за смену лучше, чем 2. Но вообще, как сказал один из комментаторов, это победа только в случае, если прибыль превышает затраты
@@Ruintheusthe original commentor is talking about if you dont have more projects ready and waiting, Like you make the same amount of money if the machine finishes in an hour and stands idle for another four hours as you would if the machine just took five hours to finish the piece in the first place. except you can also save money on tool wear if you take it slower
@@bjornthorgudmundsson2781 This is exactly what a discussion in an internal meeting would try to figure out. Maybe it is worth it for them for scheduling reasons? Maybe it makes no discernable difference in terms of day-to-day operation. However, theoretically an hour saved is always an hour that can be used in some way. Maybe not in directly using the machine, but giving your machinist time to do other work. Give them time off, or give them time to advance the research process of your business. Perhaps give them time to dedicate to mathing out how to maximize and optimize their own work flow efficiency and operation. Most businesses are far, far too narrow-minded and will hardly give the "little ants" in their operation space to move and think. Innovations do not always come from direct work but indirect means and businesses have a blind side for things that do not directly translate to dollars and offer value in more subtle ways. It's up to the entrepreneur to innovate and figure out what to do with that time. But then again, maybe a smaller business just won't realistically find more work and there will be downtime.
@@Ruintheusit practically always increases cost. the machine builds up more heat and breaks down lubricants faster at higher speeds resulting in more wear, which means more downtime for maintenance, and more material and labor costs. These machines however are more or less autonomous, so you could have one guy watching and repairing one machine, or the same guy working two machines running at half speed, and have the same production with less maintenance costs. Somewhere there is a balance point between the extremes, and that probably depends mostly on the individual bits used, and what speeds they individualy wear at.
It's a matter of financial efficiency really. If the increased savings in time, labor, and machine time far exceed costs of tool wear/replacement, it's a win.
That is what I hate about my shop. We use HSS as a standard for aluminum, and looking at their speeds and feeds, it goes at a snails pace. They say because the tools last forever… my rebuttal is, switch to carbide, keep the same proportions in speeds and feeds, so you’re still going faster, and the tool is going to last just as long since everything is proportionate. They see that a carbide tool is 2-3x more expensive and say no way. Without thinking long term how much money they would be saving in time.
@@tylerkinley268 I’ve been machining for 12 years and 3 years into an apprenticeship program through my company’s non profit. Their tooling rocks. Harvi 1, Go-Drills, Harvey tool, the works really. But that’s kind of a trend in most places it seems. Companies are stuck in their way in one way or another. In this company’s case, they are stuck on 30 year old tooling habits.
I'm not a machinist, but using HSS sounds annoying because you will also have wear issues eventually and you'll have more potential time that you could be using a full tool and also you'll be replacing it more often, which is more man/machine hours. Marginal, but it doesn't make it any better.
Practical Engineering taught me this concept, and I've honestly thought about it a lot since. You can basically only consistently get two out of three at any given time; ideally, you want either time and quality, or cost and quality. But, of course, I think we all know that a lot of companies choose time and cost instead.
I feel like wear and tear on the actual machine itself should be a factor too. I know they’re built like tanks but applying the extra force has to be harder on them and they’re the most expensive part of the operation not to mention the entire life line of it.
Something that isn't even mentioned in this video is manufacturing tolerance, for some things this practically doesn't matter but for other things. If you're off by even 0.1% No one will purchase from you and this approach will throw out the tolerance, as some examples, you could probably make heavy duty plumbing fixtures with this approach (The type that would be used for city pressure) but you are absolutely under no circumstance using the method shown in this video to make any component for an aircraft, and aircraft components are where you can make some massive money with a CNC machine,
@@andrewyoung4473 Exactly, power through the rough cuts in 30 mins and have extra time for the precision. In the end they get the parts out in far less time and move on to the next customers project which equals more income.
He's right though, a fast process that breaks a tool each time COULD be better than a slow process that doesn't depending on what the part and the machine time are worth.
Those super hot blue streaks are causing the metal become too hot and make pockets or warps destroying or weaking the atomic bonds they had. People use coolant for a reason
a lot of tools and attachments we use in construction, a normal home user would be more careful, make em last, save them, etc. we drive em into the ground to get the work done til they break. thats why we buy 2 for that job, and plan on using it up as cost of business, disposable, cuz we're making more money than would be worth the time of babying it or servicing tools sometimes even. you can find tons of new tools in garbage cuz contractors just buy new ones, and also workers who don't own tools use them improperly, overheating burning brushes etc, and they get tossed. freaking 300 dollar machine needs a 20 dollar repair, good to go lol. but it is what it is
oftentimes buying a replacement is a business expense, repairing is not, at least tax wise. paired with the high labour cost of repairing companies don't have a better option. sad but that's how it works...
@@ThisRandomGuyYouDidntNoticeIt's definitely a business expense, but the repair is a business expense too. The other factor is that it usually takes more time to get a tool repaired than to have the tool replaced (assuming it's not a specialty high-end tool). And the lost productivity from that time may be more than the cost difference - and certainly if the delay causes other work to be delayed. And finally, a tool that breaks is more likely to either have some additional fault (either because it was assembled poorly, or perhaps there is some underlying issue that causes a component to break, and replacing the broken part doesn't fix the underlying issue), or it's seen a lot of useful life already and it's likely that other components are wearing down too and those may break soon after a repair. But overall, the combination of efficient or automated assembly with the high cost of labor in the country (which are both good things) has the side-effect that it can be cheaper to replace than to have someone repair. It's certainly wasteful of materials, but maybe not of time.
I can't count the times slowing down a machine meant higher production numbers. All manufacturers think that speeding it up means better numbers, but there is a point where it just means more downtime.
Love the end result of that machining. Some sort of valve but looks like a sculpture. If this was Victorian times they would deliberately leave it like that rather than give it a surface finishing pass to smooth it off because it looks good. Didn’t matter that it may be in a sewage pumping station. They still took the time to make things have some physical attractive qualities in addition to their structural condition.
It eases structural computations, lowers weight and one have more metal "waste". Which is good, because it is sold for recycling. Good for environment also. I bet that tool wear for finishing it is not crucial (depends on tools). Finishing passes are probably much slower anyway (due to defects on surface caused by heat when milling fast).
@@davemccage7918 i don't know, but there could be many reasons for that. For starters it may be cheaper to do it that way, maybe there are specific requirements which cast would not fulfill (I really doubt that, but still possible), maybe someone has no other options (due time, knowledge of other options, contracts or design limitations), maybe one just always CNC parts like that or maybe someone just wanted it that way, etc. It was done this way not another, so probably there are reasons for that - rational or irrational. Would casting be better - in technical aspects probably. In other maybe or maybe not. Edit: thank you for your comment btw. Sometimes I need some simple metal part and never actually thought "why not just cast it" :)
Cracks develop along lines. So another reason to finish and not have all of these heat sinks that shrink at different times and cracks that form from vibration harmonics from the weird angles
@@meandmylittlemind You make some good points. The only other reason I could think of was that it might actually be more cost effective to machine this valve if it was a one-off custom part, but even that seems like a stretch with lost-foam casting being a relatively inexpensive option these days. The valve’s large size and simple form is what’s “bothering” me about this, and the shit ton of waste shavings is also irritating.
Yes you need to stay within the parameters of the machine, that shouldn’t need to be said anyone sitting behind a $100,000 machine should already be aware that wrecking the machine makes for a bad day
@@jaydunbar7538this guy clearly doesn't know that because if you're a regularly breaking your tools, you're probably pushing the limits of those components. At least if you're buying the correct tools and someone giving this advice, I don't know if they are
@@raidzeromattmaybe with the machines in this video, but I have seen c&c machines that run into the tens of millions of dollars and with what I know about the manufacturers, if you abuse the machine as shown in this video, you don't get a warranty
@@raidzeromatt a minority% of companies buy new and the majority% buy them used from the other guys. Chances are that you're working for or you own the company that buys the used stuff.
I remember this part, what a bunch of wasted tiem and money. You could've simply used a feed mill to both plunge mill and feed mill the majority of that part much faster with no broken $450 end mills. And they would've performed better in tougher materials too.
It looks like a diff case, if you only need 1 then maybe machining might work but in mass production you need to cast them, it would be stronger and probably cheaper too.
Tool capabilities and tolerances aren't the only thing to consider, you need to consider the material being Tooled, and whether it can handle increased pressure and Heat associated with pushing harder and faster.
in aerospace shit needs to be smooth ive spent countless hours sanding and polishing aluminum parts before chemical conversion and paint because our previous machine shop was super inconsistent with how they ran their machines, but thats money lost in our shop rather then theirs so sometyings gotta give i guess😂
Very good point. Also remember that chip load is important. Too low of a chip load results in the tool taking too much heat. So you want to run as fast as possible so the chip load becomes thermally sacrificial. If you continue to push the tool, you up production. And your right, you may see situations where it’s cheaper to burn the tool in comparison to the money made from the part.
As my boss used to say. "I can deal with a down machine but I hate dealing with bad parts which lead to upset customers. That route ends up costing more".
Hmm 🤔.. interesting narrative, however depending on what industry your catering too, excessive tool breakage, ultimately leads to machine tool failure. I worked at a heavy industry production/job shop. They affirmatively believed in this fallacy which lead them down a tumultuous end! What lessons can we learn here? The question these owners should’ve asked themselves.. was it all worth it. Facilitate speed for numerous tool failures and devastating machine tool destruction? The only machine shops that can handle the financial burden of tool breakage and machine tool failure are…. Drum roll please … if your machine shop makes their own exclusive product, similar to “Spaceexx” “Tesla” whatever the case may be , CNC machine manufacturers are a prime example .. hopefully this makes sense
True but many larger shops push their machines hard for two or three years then trade them in on newer ones, they don't care about wear and tear because they don't keep them long and half the time they have them they are under warranty. Usually the bugs are worked out by the end of the warranty and they are good for around three years or so before needing any major work.
Space X making its own stuff lol now clearly I don’t know the entire operation but I can tell you that I’ve hauled stuff from 3rd party machine shops to 3rd party test facilities to have it finally end up at space X.
Typically CNC machine time isn´t that expensive today. Really just if you have a huge bulk order that will takes weeks to fill, you actually would have a huge benefit in speeding it up
We were running these calculations some 30 years ago in my engineering school in France. The issue was about accelerated wear, not so much breaking. Breaking can be disastrous and can cost a lot in replacement and setup time. Risking a breakage was more or less out of question. Of course it happened, but mostly when a tool was wearing and not replaced in time. Motor torque, vibrations etc can be used to assess the level of wear.
So clearly you have no plans on reducing the price of your product since you are finding ways to reduce cost. That business model has been shown to be such a benefit to society, good job pushing it forward.
Yes, because that is totally reasonable. Quality is obviously a concern that both the producer and the consumer have to consider, but uniquely the producer has to expend their own capital and expect a certain level of profit versus their investment to be made, otherwise it's just not worth it and they're actively wasting capital and running their business into the ground. And if adjusting the price higher or lower is not feasible, then going back to basics and reevaluating what parts of the process can be stripped away or simplified to maximize profit margins without compromising on quality in any appreciable way is just common sense.
Businesses are created to earn money, not to "benefit society". Product price is how much is a customer willing to pay for, nothing else. That's why some products have big profit margins while some don't. If you want "benefit to society" then create a charity or something.
Production is at all all time high Never in history have we ever produced so much so fast Meanwhile wage value is decreasing They give us government mandated wage increases all while raising the cost of living You appear to be earning more money, but the money is worthless
Then you get into the maintenance of added force on the machine to run faster and work harder. Precision bearings take that weight. the stress on a machine is a factor also. Is it a new well maintained, properly calibrate machine or not. You can incur expenses there also.
Tooling in certain workshops suck! Foreman gives lectures on how much tools cost if you need a new one. Work colleagues keep hold of specialist tools in their personal tool boxes. Glad i left this industry
any industry, white or blue collar, has this facet regardless of how high up the chain we are. most of us aren't nepo-babies so it's mandatory to network and be as likable as possible. hard work just means you'll be stuck with that particular duty for the remainder of your career. the preceding was anecdote and reflects my current middle-aged outlook on life.
Often people who can't do the job are promoted to the office, they become foremen. Then piss goes to their head and they start to think they know something about machining. They are never going to promote someone who's actually a good worker. But it's the same in many other industries. Some companys don't have this sick structure and they are succesful.
Running tools/toolpaths to the limit is cool and stuff. As long as it's not putting extra wear on the machine itself. A tool is cheap to replace but machines/parts are a bit more
This looks like the valve assemblies that I have seen cast at a pipe company that supplies infrastructure to cities. Large water supply pipes and valves, and waste water valves, and fire hydrants, steam lines and industrial boiler systems like NYC and Philadelphia uses. Is this what you make ? I know for the company I saw, they did rheir own stress tests and independent testing and real world experiences. In the North you have frost and extreme winters of -40 degrees and the ground freezes down to 4 feet and hits the water lines and breaks the pipes. The real world data, incredibly, showed that pipes made of all wood, over 140 years old, lasts the longest and survived the winters. These pipes are still in use in many cities. Cast iron from 1890 holds up better to the cold than the steel does. It wasn't even a dataset they ran in any simulation because they didn't think it was still in use. Most of the infrastructure prior to 1950 is not even listed. I personally found a lot of unknown ( forgotten ) infrastructure that was still in use. The underground of my city was basically built over and forgotten but still used. And it was like a magical secret world under the city. There were tunnels that were over 100 miles combined. They sealed all the entrances after 2002, so there is no way to get in the system now. But it is still there.
The bits should have an optimal chipload predetermined by the manufacturer for the best life span. You can also calculate the chipload yourself and make adjustments but usually using the proper chipload for that tool and the material it's cutting will provide you with the longest lifespan. If you want to speed it up or slow it down you can but you're moving out of optimal range for cutting smoothly
I’m almost 40 and ready to leave Nursing to do something else and this machining has always been interesting to me, is this something that could support a large family on one income? If so how many years are we talking for training and OJT experience before lots of money can be reliably made? It’s hard to leave what I know for something new especially since I have to support a large family. Either way, I love you videos and watching these machines in action, extremely impressive.
This is kind of true, but it's a lot more complicated, tool life isn't the only factor to consider. You also need to look at machine life and maintenance costs, the greater heat buildup and how it will effect the workpiece, whether or not your tolerances can be maintained at this faster pace, the increased risk of catastrophic failure (both in financial terms and human safety), whether you have enough work lined up to actually make money from a faster production rate, and probably a few other things I'm not thinking of. It definitely can make sense to push the limits depending on the requirements of the job and the equipment you're working with, but there's a lot of factors to consider and it's something you want to spend a good deal more thought on than just "saved hours - tool cost = profit"
I can definitely see how this makes sense especially if its a softer metal and the time you save is more valuable then the tools, but the stress on the servo motor might have you replace them and have a multiple days of downtime.
I work in aerospace. For us a broken insert means an immediate stoppage, additional paperwork, cleanup passes and rerouting the part back through NDT to check for damage.
It's the same concept as, "if I make 500 dollars in an hour, it makes sense for me to spend 20 dollars for fast food over 30 minutes, and recover 250 worth the last half hour, than to spend 5 hours of my time to go to the store, get ingredients, and meal prep." It's about valuing time differently. Acceptable sacrifice for saving time will always make you more money in the end
I do this working on cars. Usually it’s about losing tools. If the time it takes to find the thing after a reasonable search exceeds the cost of the item, it may be worth just letting it go. This strategy does not apply to you snap on tool owners. If you loose 1 socket, your spending an hour to find it.
Assuming the cost per hour of the machine is held constant, it is a question of what is your (tool cost/hr)(cycle time). Alternatively you could also define this as (tool cost/tool lifespan)(volume of material to be removed/mrr). There is other nuances, such as meeting due dates that may necessitate higher short term costs in order to secure long term business, or other associated costs, but you get the point. If you are able to accurately estimate the lifespan of your tools given varying materials and parameters, you can figure out your cost/hr of that tool. From there it is just some simple algebra calculations to figure out what approach is most profitable.
And to take this another step further, bearing management or gripper management. Those same days that you’re pushing your tools, you are also pushing your bearings. Obviously the bearings are not as fragile as tooling but they absolutely are a wearing item and the spindle absolutely will need a rebuild at some point. (With proper maintenance you can go years on end though easily). Grippers are what actually holds the tool in the spindle and are also a wearing item. Although grippers don’t directly wear from pushing your feed and speed rates but they do wear from tool changes which happens more often when you’re pushing things. Luckily grippers can be replaced easily. All of it is exactly as he says, it’s a balance between cost and profitability. Dana driveshaft pushes their Bryant spindles at 95% for 2-3 shifts a day making U joint parts and because of that I get to rebuild them nearly once a year lol but most businesses can’t afford to be so aggressive. (And this concludes my ted talk as a spindle tech 😂)
*In economics, the term used for when maximum demand and maximum supply intersect is called “equilibrium”. It’s the optimal point where you produce the most items, and sell the most items for the best profit. So what this video is stressing is the equilibrium between time and material cost.*
Seriously ? Often times the huge problem is the clamp situation of the workpiece. Cutting pressure is in like 75% of the time the thing that's holding me back from going faster. What would be more interesting is how to reduce set cutting pressure while creating as many chips as possible
@jaydunbar7538 not everyone runs easy shit in a vise. Try machining a weldment with arms and pads hanging way out in space and deep line bores and back spot faces and back bores.
He didn't include bottlenecking production. It's definitely good to know what you can push a tool or machine to do. In the example given, does the 5h machining time conflict with another operation? Is another part/job sitting and waiting for the machine or is the schedule free? Also does the part need to be finished in one hour because the customer/install is waiting to proceed? If there is time to spare vs preserving a machine is your judgement call
You also have to consider that the heat from the increased speed may not be enough to break your bit, but it will dull it faster, which is a cost you won't see the result of for a while.
It's also really important to factor in the time it takes to fix said tools. If you run things really hard all the time you will usually run a greater risk for mistake greater risk for non typical machine faults that aren't accounted for in cost. It's in my opinion not the best philosophy as it usually results in information and unaccounted for problems that will get very quickly or weigh the benefits. It's a balancing act of course but i personally always fall on the slow and steady wind the race side of that balance. Granted my primary experience with this is in infrared laser cutters where trying to run them just a bit faster basically always means creating a bunch of manual labor in QA and just waisted time and material because the machines no longer consistently cut thru the whole project. Maybe it would be different with a mill like this
When I first started running a boring mill, I set out to break my tools. My foreman was pissed. Then I dialed it back and ran faster than anyone in the shop... he was pleased.
Only good for no critical components. I am from Aerospace industry and the amount of stress you put on the part while cutting, matters a lot to us when it comes to critical components. So we regulate the speed and feed, if you want to change it, the part needs to be reassessed metallurgically.
This is Titan. I completely agree to a point. But we also did 3000 part numbers for SpaceX alone and got our prices down while making great money. We did this by really focusing on roughing material aggressively. Rough hard and fast in a way that creates a huge MRR but doesn’t put a ton of stress in the part… one way is by using end mills and spreading the load down the tool, meaning more axial and less radial…. Murder material and then relax the work holding and then come back and kiss the baby into spec. It’s a beautiful thing. Take care and thanks for commenting.
Could also consider the ratio between speed, accuracy, and rate of wear. In some circumstances a tool or machine may wear exponentially faster, or produce a less accurate cut.
Depends on how much you can shove the cost of operations into the final sale price. Competition and then demand is a big factor on how much can be charged for basic operational costs. Company A can charge sky high prices if they get it done in an hour if there is a market for it. But company b offers a similar product for cheaper and longer wait times.
Faster means more friction which means more heat. Heat will expand the part that you’re machining, so if you need very precise tolerances then that whole block of metal is useless. Tolerances are the main obstacle to if the part will pass or be trash. Sometimes slower is faster/better
It’s all determined by your surface speed. Always refer to the cutting tool manufacturers recommendation for the tool and, material that you are cutting. From there, calculate your chip load.
A shame the balance seems to be tipping more towards sacrificing tools in the name of shorter run times. The last couple shops I’ve worked at, especially my current shop, have had a penchant for every time we run a new batch of a particular part, an entire new program comes with the work order, systematically reducing run times. The cost is more and more often, we have tools breaking, frequently in the parts, costing us material, plus the lost time replacing the tool and rechecking all related dimensions before restarting normal cycles. It goes well beyond just the cost of tools, something that seems to gradually fade in importance, especially in bigger shops, and it hurts my soul for all the lost productivity it leads to.
При быстрой обработке идёт напряжение металла то есть структура металла изменяется в худшую сторону. Изделие придётся нагревать для снятия напряжения металла а нагрев это дорого.
Maximizing your chip-per-hour is key. Employees are valuable... but machine time is EVERYTHING. When you can cost-comp your tools/tooling, you're tapping into the realm only experience can teach... that last layer of "old hand" profits, you simply can't get without said experience.
Depends on the job. I for one, used to do construction. Whenever I quoted jobs, I added tools to the budget. Because sometimes you need specialty tools. So if I finish the job, I don’t care if it spends itself.
"how can i profit off of putting pressure on everyone and everything else?" this video sums up everything wrong with management. this is why we can't have nice things. greed and selfishness
now factor in down time for repairs....the cut time is as essential as repair time.....NASA has some Cad programs where you can take specs of materials and replicate (without fab) the load failure points.... Ai should handle this issue nicely
Just remember if you work most jobs, you are the tool in this scenario and this logic is applied to you as opposed to a drill. Your bosses are always thinking about how far they can push you without breaking you which would require further investment. If you want to get out of that loop, unionize and force your boss to include you in this discussion.
Everyone can work as they please, no day is the same either. The use of tools really ends on the user, and time can be made by keeping a process going while others step away for a chat or a smoke.
I remember my first engineering job programming CNC machines and it blew me away that nobody could figure out how to do fast travel properly 😅 saved us 80% of the cut time by just manually modifying our code for fast travel on an old machine
all of that if figured out in the program they use...cnc work is pretty fun..i was at about 4.5 years....its a never ending learning process.....i just made my life better...i need constant input...i need to get back into cnc
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That bit looked like he was trying to get it to welding temps! Love the thought process just don’t forget practicality! Is it practical to run the pace faster if you lose the mechanics of the working materials… maybe not! That was a piece of art though 🔥🔥!
I would probably measure the wattage use as well. I can only imagine that taking bigger chunks will increase torque requirements, which will increase amperage use and thereby running cost. You also have to factor in wear on the mill itself. I am not sure just comparing time vs tool cost is a wise cost/benifit analysis.
If think people dont understand exactly what he said. He is not saying to run machines faster, but rather more efficiently. This can be done many other ways. Sometimes just changing the order things are done can save up time and costs.
Makes alot of sense if you spend more on tooling but make enough money on out to justify it. As long as its not causing unnecessary wear on the machining center.
I'd rather take 1 hour making a high quality part than 30 minutes making a low quality part. It doesnt matter how much product you pump out if every product you made isnt within spec. How do we ensure the spec is met, we ensure the tooling is in good condition. How do we keep on schedule, change tooling when it has completed it run life so that you dont have a catastrophic break in which could cause a longer time for the machine to be down which in turn causes far more loss than if you were to just run at a lower speed and make sure to change the tooling when necessary.
HOW MANY JOBS DOES IT TAKE TO PAY OFF A MACHINE LIKE THAT. 😅 I know some dudes in dress an sandles that would cast that in iron for 1/100th the cost of machining one.
Faster cycle times do not always equal more profit. Throughput is king over cycle time. If the cycle time increases part scrap, or more down time due to premature tool wear. For example we had some hammer dies that had a cycle time of 40 hours. This cycle time required an operator to watch tooling and change tooling with inconsistent tool life. We only had operators for first shift. We slowed the tooling down to a cycle time of 48 hours. We were able to run the dies after hours without premature tooling wear and on the off shifts without operators. The 40 hour cycle time took a week to complete. The 48 hour cycle time took 2 days to complete. Slower cycle time for a faster throughput for a lack of man power. I only needed to set it up and forget it.
this depends heavily. for a 40$ up to 400$ tools may be beneficial to be able to just speed things up and destroy them in the process, but where i do work (chemical factories) our equipment is never less than 2 grand, most of the time being over 5k...
Also gotta look at the downtime for replacing inserts/tools and machine maintenance. If you're calling the maintenance guys over every day, you're not doing things efficiently.
I've tryed to explain this to people at my job and they look at me like I am nuts. I run a 2 axis engine lathe with stick tools. I do .130 doc in hastoloy at .012 ipr and 120sfpm. They think it is better to run it .050doc at .012ipr and 80sfm because the insert holds up for the hole job instead of changing one whole insert a part. It takes me almost 4x less time to do the same job. 😅
@@vcarriereso I see exactly where you’re coming from, but you gotta keep in mind that even small CNC machines weigh upwards of 5 tons. They’re massive. And on any machine that’s capable of running inconel or any pretty hard alloys, the difference in wear in 0.05 and .120 DOC is nothing. Also, most machines break due to operate error (crashing). The real concern is gonna be precision in those machines taking a fat DOC in a hard material. If you’re got wide open tolerances, it doesn’t matter if your tool moves a few 0.001” but if you’re tryna hold 0.0001?? Shiiii I’m taking light cuts all day.
@@vcarriere Thats a pretty easy calculation, if you are 4x faster, you do the work of 4 days in one, so time wise you have the down time already covered after one day, but the spindels dont wear out that fast. Also 80% of the tool limit doesnt mean 80% of the machine limit.
@@vcarriere Yes, if you simplify it like that, but the machine is not seeing any significant load from those whisper cuts. Running it slow like that would actually cause more wear since the spindle is turning for example 4 days insted of 1 and insted of 6 passes per part the it takes 20. Servos, quides, even the oilpump and coolant pumps would wear a lot more. Also it would be stupid to run slow for years to save spindle bearings that can be changed in 8 hours.
Every business owner or future entrepreneur should take some managerial accounting classes at night or online at a community or local college. You don’t need a degree if you’re working for yourself, take the classes that will be beneficial at your own pace and watch the magic of what a college education is SUPPOSED to do for you. Rather than getting a degree to get a job. You’ll find yourself understanding and applying the knowledge you have towards your business helping your business and your comprehension instead of having no context to the information.
I feel like I should be wearing safety glasses while watching this video.
just squint your eyes. thank me later
Your screen’s glass is enough to protect you, no worries.
I was holding my phone right up to my eyes, taunting and screaming at it “oh yeah mf’er?! I’m right here! Come throw dem chips right in my eyes b*tch!” 😅
🤣 that time i accidentally cracked the machine glass wrongly using a ton of hex mighty-vice s
They had like 14 pieces of aluminum flat on the table, with 4 vices each, that couldn’t be over tightened or buckle upwards 🥵
OP has good instincts.
Don't forget that heat buildup is often non-negligible. Fast might be good but if the product gets too hot and gets ruined then you lose all the time saved and tools you already burned through.
dont they use coolant
Coolant solves that problem, they just don’t use it when recording
Coolant only goes so far. It fixes 90% of heat buildup issues but you can still ruin a part. It s that last 10% that'll get you usually because those will be extremely precise with tight tolerances.
@@93lozfanindeed, the increased friction from running at high speeds can cause micro warps on the piece as it's being worked, and when such warps add up, they could render a precision piece completely useless. Lets remember that something normally tiny as "1mm" means the difference between a piece becoming a high precision masterpiece, or a modern """art""" lump of metal.
If it takes a certain amount of time to do a project, cutting that time down sounds like there's a greater chance of error and injury.
“Father, please, I crave coolant”
"No"
lmao those bits are like hundreds of dollars
"here, drink this cool-aid"
Give it brawndo.
@@jesseromo7646 It’s got what (manufacturing) plants crave
Running a blunt tool on inconel is a good way to put a hard as f*** skin on it that costs 10x the time to deal with. You can see the material discoloring from heat due to a blunt tool in this clip. Workpiece overheating will mess with your measurements, the machine will wear out faster, its noisy AF, the guy who takes over the machine next will be angry at a magazine filled with blunt tools and lose time changing them all, etc. There's more than just the tool life to consider.
LoL, messing up inconel is worse than breaking tools.
How you even gonna get a block of fresh inconnel for even the cost of 10/20 tool replacements.
Probably won't 😂.
You are not a CNC business owner lil bro
@@noahkristoffersen6710 That's funny because I actually am 😂
@@noahkristoffersen6710damn you just got fucking dunked on. Now you look like a loser calling a business owner “lil bro”
@@noahkristoffersen6710what's your response mr noah
It also depends on how many orders you have lined up. If you don’t have another customer lined up in queue it doesn’t make much sense to speed up the machine.
Думаю, речь больше о заводах, где "следующий клиент" в очереди стоит всегда. Согласись - 10 деталей за смену лучше, чем 2. Но вообще, как сказал один из комментаторов, это победа только в случае, если прибыль превышает затраты
Only if running your machine faster results in higher costs to you.
Otherwise, why not save on time?
@@Ruintheusthe original commentor is talking about if you dont have more projects ready and waiting,
Like you make the same amount of money if the machine finishes in an hour and stands idle for another four hours as you would if the machine just took five hours to finish the piece in the first place. except you can also save money on tool wear if you take it slower
@@bjornthorgudmundsson2781 This is exactly what a discussion in an internal meeting would try to figure out.
Maybe it is worth it for them for scheduling reasons? Maybe it makes no discernable difference in terms of day-to-day operation. However, theoretically an hour saved is always an hour that can be used in some way. Maybe not in directly using the machine, but giving your machinist time to do other work. Give them time off, or give them time to advance the research process of your business. Perhaps give them time to dedicate to mathing out how to maximize and optimize their own work flow efficiency and operation. Most businesses are far, far too narrow-minded and will hardly give the "little ants" in their operation space to move and think. Innovations do not always come from direct work but indirect means and businesses have a blind side for things that do not directly translate to dollars and offer value in more subtle ways.
It's up to the entrepreneur to innovate and figure out what to do with that time. But then again, maybe a smaller business just won't realistically find more work and there will be downtime.
@@Ruintheusit practically always increases cost. the machine builds up more heat and breaks down lubricants faster at higher speeds resulting in more wear, which means more downtime for maintenance, and more material and labor costs. These machines however are more or less autonomous, so you could have one guy watching and repairing one machine, or the same guy working two machines running at half speed, and have the same production with less maintenance costs. Somewhere there is a balance point between the extremes, and that probably depends mostly on the individual bits used, and what speeds they individualy wear at.
It's a matter of financial efficiency really. If the increased savings in time, labor, and machine time far exceed costs of tool wear/replacement, it's a win.
That is what I hate about my shop. We use HSS as a standard for aluminum, and looking at their speeds and feeds, it goes at a snails pace. They say because the tools last forever… my rebuttal is, switch to carbide, keep the same proportions in speeds and feeds, so you’re still going faster, and the tool is going to last just as long since everything is proportionate. They see that a carbide tool is 2-3x more expensive and say no way. Without thinking long term how much money they would be saving in time.
@@bf4chode2 my experience with machining is limited to community college courses, but they spent money for carbide tools.
@@tylerkinley268 I’ve been machining for 12 years and 3 years into an apprenticeship program through my company’s non profit. Their tooling rocks. Harvi 1, Go-Drills, Harvey tool, the works really. But that’s kind of a trend in most places it seems. Companies are stuck in their way in one way or another. In this company’s case, they are stuck on 30 year old tooling habits.
@@bf4chode2 that is indeed dumb, we rarely use hss at all in our shop and machine time isnt even that critical to us.
I'm not a machinist, but using HSS sounds annoying because you will also have wear issues eventually and you'll have more potential time that you could be using a full tool and also you'll be replacing it more often, which is more man/machine hours. Marginal, but it doesn't make it any better.
Like in many other professions, it's all about finding that happy medium between time, cost and quality. You can't have all three.
Practical Engineering taught me this concept, and I've honestly thought about it a lot since. You can basically only consistently get two out of three at any given time; ideally, you want either time and quality, or cost and quality. But, of course, I think we all know that a lot of companies choose time and cost instead.
The triangle where you can only pick two to give you a specific outcome of 1.
I feel like wear and tear on the actual machine itself should be a factor too. I know they’re built like tanks but applying the extra force has to be harder on them and they’re the most expensive part of the operation not to mention the entire life line of it.
Something that isn't even mentioned in this video is manufacturing tolerance, for some things this practically doesn't matter but for other things. If you're off by even 0.1% No one will purchase from you and this approach will throw out the tolerance, as some examples, you could probably make heavy duty plumbing fixtures with this approach (The type that would be used for city pressure) but you are absolutely under no circumstance using the method shown in this video to make any component for an aircraft, and aircraft components are where you can make some massive money with a CNC machine,
@@the_undeadIn this clip he is talking about the rough cuts, the fine cuts are the really precise ones and they slow down.
@@andrewyoung4473 Exactly, power through the rough cuts in 30 mins and have extra time for the precision. In the end they get the parts out in far less time and move on to the next customers project which equals more income.
You're not making money if you make dogshit and break your tools.
He's right though, a fast process that breaks a tool each time COULD be better than a slow process that doesn't depending on what the part and the machine time are worth.
@@thewhitefalcon8539 yea but it would be very rare
I saw the temper being ruined on some of those cuts. I would not buy from them.
@@thewhitefalcon8539 no, if you break a tool in yout work, especially in a last step that part is most likely scrap
@@thewhitefalcon8539 its high production philosophy. Cant do this in a normal shop
Those super hot blue streaks are causing the metal become too hot and make pockets or warps destroying or weaking the atomic bonds they had. People use coolant for a reason
a lot of tools and attachments we use in construction, a normal home user would be more careful, make em last, save them, etc. we drive em into the ground to get the work done til they break. thats why we buy 2 for that job, and plan on using it up as cost of business, disposable, cuz we're making more money than would be worth the time of babying it or servicing tools sometimes even. you can find tons of new tools in garbage cuz contractors just buy new ones, and also workers who don't own tools use them improperly, overheating burning brushes etc, and they get tossed. freaking 300 dollar machine needs a 20 dollar repair, good to go lol. but it is what it is
oftentimes buying a replacement is a business expense, repairing is not, at least tax wise. paired with the high labour cost of repairing companies don't have a better option. sad but that's how it works...
Who is “we” you don’t buy that shit you just work in construction.
@@ThisRandomGuyYouDidntNoticeIt's definitely a business expense, but the repair is a business expense too. The other factor is that it usually takes more time to get a tool repaired than to have the tool replaced (assuming it's not a specialty high-end tool). And the lost productivity from that time may be more than the cost difference - and certainly if the delay causes other work to be delayed. And finally, a tool that breaks is more likely to either have some additional fault (either because it was assembled poorly, or perhaps there is some underlying issue that causes a component to break, and replacing the broken part doesn't fix the underlying issue), or it's seen a lot of useful life already and it's likely that other components are wearing down too and those may break soon after a repair.
But overall, the combination of efficient or automated assembly with the high cost of labor in the country (which are both good things) has the side-effect that it can be cheaper to replace than to have someone repair. It's certainly wasteful of materials, but maybe not of time.
And we wonder why the environment is going to shit
I can't count the times slowing down a machine meant higher production numbers. All manufacturers think that speeding it up means better numbers, but there is a point where it just means more downtime.
if the tool is working 24/7 then you are correct
Love the end result of that machining. Some sort of valve but looks like a sculpture. If this was Victorian times they would deliberately leave it like that rather than give it a surface finishing pass to smooth it off because it looks good. Didn’t matter that it may be in a sewage pumping station. They still took the time to make things have some physical attractive qualities in addition to their structural condition.
It eases structural computations, lowers weight and one have more metal "waste". Which is good, because it is sold for recycling. Good for environment also. I bet that tool wear for finishing it is not crucial (depends on tools). Finishing passes are probably much slower anyway (due to defects on surface caused by heat when milling fast).
Why couldn’t this valve just been cast?
@@davemccage7918 i don't know, but there could be many reasons for that. For starters it may be cheaper to do it that way, maybe there are specific requirements which cast would not fulfill (I really doubt that, but still possible), maybe someone has no other options (due time, knowledge of other options, contracts or design limitations), maybe one just always CNC parts like that or maybe someone just wanted it that way, etc.
It was done this way not another, so probably there are reasons for that - rational or irrational. Would casting be better - in technical aspects probably. In other maybe or maybe not.
Edit: thank you for your comment btw. Sometimes I need some simple metal part and never actually thought "why not just cast it" :)
Cracks develop along lines. So another reason to finish and not have all of these heat sinks that shrink at different times and cracks that form from vibration harmonics from the weird angles
@@meandmylittlemind You make some good points. The only other reason I could think of was that it might actually be more cost effective to machine this valve if it was a one-off custom part, but even that seems like a stretch with lost-foam casting being a relatively inexpensive option these days. The valve’s large size and simple form is what’s “bothering” me about this, and the shit ton of waste shavings is also irritating.
Not about heat neater tools breaking but the spindle bearings and the transmission might be under stresse
Yes you need to stay within the parameters of the machine, that shouldn’t need to be said anyone sitting behind a $100,000 machine should already be aware that wrecking the machine makes for a bad day
@@jaydunbar7538this guy clearly doesn't know that because if you're a regularly breaking your tools, you're probably pushing the limits of those components. At least if you're buying the correct tools and someone giving this advice, I don't know if they are
Can only work as hard as the technicians you have fixing them
Thats why you buy them new and run them as hard as you can til the warranty runs out
Then you just sell them and buy new ones
@@raidzeromattmaybe with the machines in this video, but I have seen c&c machines that run into the tens of millions of dollars and with what I know about the manufacturers, if you abuse the machine as shown in this video, you don't get a warranty
@@raidzeromatt a minority% of companies buy new and the majority% buy them used from the other guys.
Chances are that you're working for or you own the company that buys the used stuff.
I remember this part, what a bunch of wasted tiem and money. You could've simply used a feed mill to both plunge mill and feed mill the majority of that part much faster with no broken $450 end mills. And they would've performed better in tougher materials too.
It looks like a diff case, if you only need 1 then maybe machining might work but in mass production you need to cast them, it would be stronger and probably cheaper too.
$450 dollar endmills. Bud they have at least 15 backups
@@mafinalmessagechangedaworl7131 And that makes what difference, exactly?
When I look up feed mill, I only see tools for making feed for livestock. What kind of milling machine are you talking about? Interested to learn.
@@andrewn7365 It's short for high feed end mill
Tool capabilities and tolerances aren't the only thing to consider, you need to consider the material being Tooled, and whether it can handle increased pressure and Heat associated with pushing harder and faster.
in aerospace shit needs to be smooth ive spent countless hours sanding and polishing aluminum parts before chemical conversion and paint because our previous machine shop was super inconsistent with how they ran their machines, but thats money lost in our shop rather then theirs so sometyings gotta give i guess😂
This is like one of those 3D movies where you feel like metal shavings are hitting your eyes
Very good point. Also remember that chip load is important. Too low of a chip load results in the tool taking too much heat. So you want to run as fast as possible so the chip load becomes thermally sacrificial. If you continue to push the tool, you up production. And your right, you may see situations where it’s cheaper to burn the tool in comparison to the money made from the part.
As my boss used to say. "I can deal with a down machine but I hate dealing with bad parts which lead to upset customers. That route ends up costing more".
Hmm 🤔.. interesting narrative, however depending on what industry your catering too, excessive tool breakage, ultimately leads to machine tool failure. I worked at a heavy industry production/job shop. They affirmatively believed in this fallacy which lead them down a tumultuous end! What lessons can we learn here? The question these owners should’ve asked themselves.. was it all worth it. Facilitate speed for numerous tool failures and devastating machine tool destruction? The only machine shops that can handle the financial burden of tool breakage and machine tool failure are…. Drum roll please … if your machine shop makes their own exclusive product, similar to “Spaceexx” “Tesla” whatever the case may be , CNC machine manufacturers are a prime example .. hopefully this makes sense
True but many larger shops push their machines hard for two or three years then trade them in on newer ones, they don't care about wear and tear because they don't keep them long and half the time they have them they are under warranty. Usually the bugs are worked out by the end of the warranty and they are good for around three years or so before needing any major work.
Space X making its own stuff lol now clearly I don’t know the entire operation but I can tell you that I’ve hauled stuff from 3rd party machine shops to 3rd party test facilities to have it finally end up at space X.
All about finding that golden ratio 👌🏽
Hahahaha, this is a legendary unintended reference to TOOL's Lateralus, what a stupendous pun
You are not a CNC business owner lil bro
@@noahkristoffersen6710 ok
@@noahkristoffersen6710 you have never seen a pussy lil bro
Typically CNC machine time isn´t that expensive today.
Really just if you have a huge bulk order that will takes weeks to fill, you actually would have a huge benefit in speeding it up
We were running these calculations some 30 years ago in my engineering school in France. The issue was about accelerated wear, not so much breaking. Breaking can be disastrous and can cost a lot in replacement and setup time. Risking a breakage was more or less out of question. Of course it happened, but mostly when a tool was wearing and not replaced in time.
Motor torque, vibrations etc can be used to assess the level of wear.
So clearly you have no plans on reducing the price of your product since you are finding ways to reduce cost. That business model has been shown to be such a benefit to society, good job pushing it forward.
Yes, because that is totally reasonable. Quality is obviously a concern that both the producer and the consumer have to consider, but uniquely the producer has to expend their own capital and expect a certain level of profit versus their investment to be made, otherwise it's just not worth it and they're actively wasting capital and running their business into the ground. And if adjusting the price higher or lower is not feasible, then going back to basics and reevaluating what parts of the process can be stripped away or simplified to maximize profit margins without compromising on quality in any appreciable way is just common sense.
@@Brutalyte616The physics ultimately ends up being finite...
It's the Supply-Demand that ends up being the actual problem.
Businesses are created to earn money, not to "benefit society".
Product price is how much is a customer willing to pay for, nothing else. That's why some products have big profit margins while some don't.
If you want "benefit to society" then create a charity or something.
I guess spindle bearing are not a issue for $ if it needs to be replaced... we'll just keep replacing them as they go but we're making money FAST
My man talking like he’s in a job interview.
Production is at all all time high
Never in history have we ever produced so much so fast
Meanwhile wage value is decreasing
They give us government mandated wage increases all while raising the cost of living
You appear to be earning more money, but the money is worthless
Then you get into the maintenance of added force on the machine to run faster and work harder. Precision bearings take that weight. the stress on a machine is a factor also. Is it a new well maintained, properly calibrate machine or not. You can incur expenses there also.
Thanks for making manufacturing cool! More available machine time = more money on other projects.
It's not just the tools materials you have to worry about, it's the metal stock you're machining that you need to consider too
Tooling in certain workshops suck! Foreman gives lectures on how much tools cost if you need a new one.
Work colleagues keep hold of specialist tools in their personal tool boxes.
Glad i left this industry
any industry, white or blue collar, has this facet regardless of how high up the chain we are. most of us aren't nepo-babies so it's mandatory to network and be as likable as possible. hard work just means you'll be stuck with that particular duty for the remainder of your career. the preceding was anecdote and reflects my current middle-aged outlook on life.
Often people who can't do the job are promoted to the office, they become foremen. Then piss goes to their head and they start to think they know something about machining. They are never going to promote someone who's actually a good worker. But it's the same in many other industries. Some companys don't have this sick structure and they are succesful.
Running tools/toolpaths to the limit is cool and stuff. As long as it's not putting extra wear on the machine itself. A tool is cheap to replace but machines/parts are a bit more
This looks like the valve assemblies that I have seen cast at a pipe company that supplies infrastructure to cities.
Large water supply pipes and valves, and waste water valves, and fire hydrants, steam lines and industrial boiler systems like NYC and Philadelphia uses.
Is this what you make ?
I know for the company I saw, they did rheir own stress tests and independent testing and real world experiences.
In the North you have frost and extreme winters of -40 degrees and the ground freezes down to 4 feet and hits the water lines and breaks the pipes.
The real world data, incredibly, showed that pipes made of all wood, over 140 years old, lasts the longest and survived the winters.
These pipes are still in use in many cities.
Cast iron from 1890 holds up better to the cold than the steel does.
It wasn't even a dataset they ran in any simulation because they didn't think it was still in use.
Most of the infrastructure prior to 1950 is not even listed.
I personally found a lot of unknown ( forgotten ) infrastructure that was still in use.
The underground of my city was basically built over and forgotten but still used.
And it was like a magical secret world under the city.
There were tunnels that were over 100 miles combined.
They sealed all the entrances after 2002, so there is no way to get in the system now. But it is still there.
The bits should have an optimal chipload predetermined by the manufacturer for the best life span. You can also calculate the chipload yourself and make adjustments but usually using the proper chipload for that tool and the material it's cutting will provide you with the longest lifespan. If you want to speed it up or slow it down you can but you're moving out of optimal range for cutting smoothly
I’m almost 40 and ready to leave Nursing to do something else and this machining has always been interesting to me, is this something that could support a large family on one income? If so how many years are we talking for training and OJT experience before lots of money can be reliably made? It’s hard to leave what I know for something new especially since I have to support a large family. Either way, I love you videos and watching these machines in action, extremely impressive.
This is kind of true, but it's a lot more complicated, tool life isn't the only factor to consider. You also need to look at machine life and maintenance costs, the greater heat buildup and how it will effect the workpiece, whether or not your tolerances can be maintained at this faster pace, the increased risk of catastrophic failure (both in financial terms and human safety), whether you have enough work lined up to actually make money from a faster production rate, and probably a few other things I'm not thinking of. It definitely can make sense to push the limits depending on the requirements of the job and the equipment you're working with, but there's a lot of factors to consider and it's something you want to spend a good deal more thought on than just "saved hours - tool cost = profit"
I can definitely see how this makes sense especially if its a softer metal and the time you save is more valuable then the tools, but the stress on the servo motor might have you replace them and have a multiple days of downtime.
I work in aerospace. For us a broken insert means an immediate stoppage, additional paperwork, cleanup passes and rerouting the part back through NDT to check for damage.
It's the same concept as, "if I make 500 dollars in an hour, it makes sense for me to spend 20 dollars for fast food over 30 minutes, and recover 250 worth the last half hour, than to spend 5 hours of my time to go to the store, get ingredients, and meal prep."
It's about valuing time differently. Acceptable sacrifice for saving time will always make you more money in the end
I do this working on cars. Usually it’s about losing tools. If the time it takes to find the thing after a reasonable search exceeds the cost of the item, it may be worth just letting it go. This strategy does not apply to you snap on tool owners. If you loose 1 socket, your spending an hour to find it.
Assuming the cost per hour of the machine is held constant, it is a question of what is your (tool cost/hr)(cycle time). Alternatively you could also define this as (tool cost/tool lifespan)(volume of material to be removed/mrr).
There is other nuances, such as meeting due dates that may necessitate higher short term costs in order to secure long term business, or other associated costs, but you get the point.
If you are able to accurately estimate the lifespan of your tools given varying materials and parameters, you can figure out your cost/hr of that tool. From there it is just some simple algebra calculations to figure out what approach is most profitable.
And to take this another step further, bearing management or gripper management. Those same days that you’re pushing your tools, you are also pushing your bearings. Obviously the bearings are not as fragile as tooling but they absolutely are a wearing item and the spindle absolutely will need a rebuild at some point. (With proper maintenance you can go years on end though easily). Grippers are what actually holds the tool in the spindle and are also a wearing item. Although grippers don’t directly wear from pushing your feed and speed rates but they do wear from tool changes which happens more often when you’re pushing things. Luckily grippers can be replaced easily. All of it is exactly as he says, it’s a balance between cost and profitability. Dana driveshaft pushes their Bryant spindles at 95% for 2-3 shifts a day making U joint parts and because of that I get to rebuild them nearly once a year lol but most businesses can’t afford to be so aggressive. (And this concludes my ted talk as a spindle tech 😂)
*In economics, the term used for when maximum demand and maximum supply intersect is called “equilibrium”. It’s the optimal point where you produce the most items, and sell the most items for the best profit. So what this video is stressing is the equilibrium between time and material cost.*
Those are very good quality tools i worked for a company that switched huge difference huge narrator is💯% spot on
Never thought about machining like this but it’s actually brilliant.
Seriously ? Often times the huge problem is the clamp situation of the workpiece. Cutting pressure is in like 75% of the time the thing that's holding me back from going faster. What would be more interesting is how to reduce set cutting pressure while creating as many chips as possible
chipbreaker
Very good comment here
Sounds like your clamp situation is needing better clamps, vice quality and design make a huge difference in what can be achieved on the machine.
@jaydunbar7538 not everyone runs easy shit in a vise. Try machining a weldment with arms and pads hanging way out in space and deep line bores and back spot faces and back bores.
He didn't include bottlenecking production. It's definitely good to know what you can push a tool or machine to do. In the example given, does the 5h machining time conflict with another operation? Is another part/job sitting and waiting for the machine or is the schedule free? Also does the part need to be finished in one hour because the customer/install is waiting to proceed? If there is time to spare vs preserving a machine is your judgement call
You also have to consider that the heat from the increased speed may not be enough to break your bit, but it will dull it faster, which is a cost you won't see the result of for a while.
Yeah but you end up with a worse product in the end warped by the heat with a poor finish quality on the outside.
It's also really important to factor in the time it takes to fix said tools. If you run things really hard all the time you will usually run a greater risk for mistake greater risk for non typical machine faults that aren't accounted for in cost. It's in my opinion not the best philosophy as it usually results in information and unaccounted for problems that will get very quickly or weigh the benefits. It's a balancing act of course but i personally always fall on the slow and steady wind the race side of that balance.
Granted my primary experience with this is in infrared laser cutters where trying to run them just a bit faster basically always means creating a bunch of manual labor in QA and just waisted time and material because the machines no longer consistently cut thru the whole project. Maybe it would be different with a mill like this
When I first started running a boring mill, I set out to break my tools. My foreman was pissed. Then I dialed it back and ran faster than anyone in the shop... he was pleased.
Only good for no critical components. I am from Aerospace industry and the amount of stress you put on the part while cutting, matters a lot to us when it comes to critical components. So we regulate the speed and feed, if you want to change it, the part needs to be reassessed metallurgically.
This is Titan.
I completely agree to a point.
But we also did 3000 part numbers for SpaceX alone and got our prices down while making great money. We did this by really focusing on roughing material aggressively. Rough hard and fast in a way that creates a huge MRR but doesn’t put a ton of stress in the part… one way is by using end mills and spreading the load down the tool, meaning more axial and less radial….
Murder material and then relax the work holding and then come back and kiss the baby into spec. It’s a beautiful thing.
Take care and thanks for commenting.
Could also consider the ratio between speed, accuracy, and rate of wear. In some circumstances a tool or machine may wear exponentially faster, or produce a less accurate cut.
Depends on how much you can shove the cost of operations into the final sale price.
Competition and then demand is a big factor on how much can be charged for basic operational costs. Company A can charge sky high prices if they get it done in an hour if there is a market for it. But company b offers a similar product for cheaper and longer wait times.
Faster means more friction which means more heat. Heat will expand the part that you’re machining, so if you need very precise tolerances then that whole block of metal is useless. Tolerances are the main obstacle to if the part will pass or be trash. Sometimes slower is faster/better
Przyszłość ,to drukowanie w metalu ,bez odpadów i strat na obróbkę cnc ..
we dont have a fancy tool setter, it takes longer to change multiple tools than it does to run the tool at the recommended speeds and feeds
It’s all determined by your surface speed. Always refer to the cutting tool manufacturers recommendation for the tool and, material that you are cutting. From there, calculate your chip load.
A shame the balance seems to be tipping more towards sacrificing tools in the name of shorter run times. The last couple shops I’ve worked at, especially my current shop, have had a penchant for every time we run a new batch of a particular part, an entire new program comes with the work order, systematically reducing run times. The cost is more and more often, we have tools breaking, frequently in the parts, costing us material, plus the lost time replacing the tool and rechecking all related dimensions before restarting normal cycles. It goes well beyond just the cost of tools, something that seems to gradually fade in importance, especially in bigger shops, and it hurts my soul for all the lost productivity it leads to.
При быстрой обработке идёт напряжение металла то есть структура металла изменяется в худшую сторону. Изделие придётся нагревать для снятия напряжения металла а нагрев это дорого.
Good thing for you buddy an engineering company already found out the limits and speced the machine appropriately.
I used to run CNC machines myself and how fast you push the machine is only 1 factor of many that goes into what causes failures.
Tool management is HR for machines
Maximizing your chip-per-hour is key. Employees are valuable... but machine time is EVERYTHING. When you can cost-comp your tools/tooling, you're tapping into the realm only experience can teach... that last layer of "old hand" profits, you simply can't get without said experience.
About time the machine industry speed up these slow processes and dust in front of squealing bent wrist Karens worrying about a metal breaking.
There are often lots of variables such as heat and getting rid of the waste material. Sometimes you gotta go slow to go fast
Depends on the job.
I for one, used to do construction.
Whenever I quoted jobs, I added tools to the budget. Because sometimes you need specialty tools.
So if I finish the job, I don’t care if it spends itself.
"how can i profit off of putting pressure on everyone and everything else?" this video sums up everything wrong with management. this is why we can't have nice things. greed and selfishness
Hats off to the person who wrote the code for the CNC.
Nobody wrote the code. They're using solid works. If anything hats off to the machinist that got the program to work.
now factor in down time for repairs....the cut time is as essential as repair time.....NASA has some Cad programs where you can take specs of materials and replicate (without fab) the load failure points....
Ai should handle this issue nicely
I am a Engineering master in Europe, If I was in the US I would work for you and show up with a smile every day.
Just remember if you work most jobs, you are the tool in this scenario and this logic is applied to you as opposed to a drill. Your bosses are always thinking about how far they can push you without breaking you which would require further investment. If you want to get out of that loop, unionize and force your boss to include you in this discussion.
Someone who play safe will lose to someone who risks.
But often someone go goes all risk ,will lose to ones who play safe.
Everyone can work as they please, no day is the same either. The use of tools really ends on the user, and time can be made by keeping a process going while others step away for a chat or a smoke.
I like how coherent and intelligible this video’s script is.
I remember my first engineering job programming CNC machines and it blew me away that nobody could figure out how to do fast travel properly 😅 saved us 80% of the cut time by just manually modifying our code for fast travel on an old machine
all of that if figured out in the program they use...cnc work is pretty fun..i was at about 4.5 years....its a never ending learning process.....i just made my life better...i need constant input...i need to get back into cnc
Сильно зависит от поставки инструмента. Если не штучная деталь, бери выставляй скорость изготовления на ЧПУ на максимум, и жди что инструмент не полетит в помойку. Некоторый инструмент на замену не один и не два месяца идёт поставка. Если сломалось, значит будем знать кто виноват в простое машины.
That bit looked like he was trying to get it to welding temps! Love the thought process just don’t forget practicality! Is it practical to run the pace faster if you lose the mechanics of the working materials… maybe not! That was a piece of art though 🔥🔥!
I would probably measure the wattage use as well. I can only imagine that taking bigger chunks will increase torque requirements, which will increase amperage use and thereby running cost. You also have to factor in wear on the mill itself. I am not sure just comparing time vs tool cost is a wise cost/benifit analysis.
It all depends on your work fluidity. If you have a lot of work lined up. Absolutely bam it out, this applies to more than just machinery.
If think people dont understand exactly what he said. He is not saying to run machines faster, but rather more efficiently. This can be done many other ways. Sometimes just changing the order things are done can save up time and costs.
That's not just tool management, it's cost analysis. Quality Control does that for you.
Makes alot of sense if you spend more on tooling but make enough money on out to justify it. As long as its not causing unnecessary wear on the machining center.
This is the exact thinking that resulted in microplastics...
I'd rather take 1 hour making a high quality part than 30 minutes making a low quality part. It doesnt matter how much product you pump out if every product you made isnt within spec. How do we ensure the spec is met, we ensure the tooling is in good condition. How do we keep on schedule, change tooling when it has completed it run life so that you dont have a catastrophic break in which could cause a longer time for the machine to be down which in turn causes far more loss than if you were to just run at a lower speed and make sure to change the tooling when necessary.
HOW MANY JOBS DOES IT TAKE TO PAY OFF A MACHINE LIKE THAT. 😅 I know some dudes in dress an sandles that would cast that in iron for 1/100th the cost of machining one.
Faster cycle times do not always equal more profit. Throughput is king over cycle time. If the cycle time increases part scrap, or more down time due to premature tool wear. For example we had some hammer dies that had a cycle time of 40 hours. This cycle time required an operator to watch tooling and change tooling with inconsistent tool life. We only had operators for first shift. We slowed the tooling down to a cycle time of 48 hours. We were able to run the dies after hours without premature tooling wear and on the off shifts without operators. The 40 hour cycle time took a week to complete. The 48 hour cycle time took 2 days to complete. Slower cycle time for a faster throughput for a lack of man power. I only needed to set it up and forget it.
this depends heavily. for a 40$ up to 400$ tools may be beneficial to be able to just speed things up and destroy them in the process, but where i do work (chemical factories) our equipment is never less than 2 grand, most of the time being over 5k...
Also gotta look at the downtime for replacing inserts/tools and machine maintenance.
If you're calling the maintenance guys over every day, you're not doing things efficiently.
It's so easy to forget that these fast efficient machines still require maintenance.
What about when they find out you’re doing a job in 25% of the time you said it’d take. Then they want it in 15 😅
I've tryed to explain this to people at my job and they look at me like I am nuts. I run a 2 axis engine lathe with stick tools. I do .130 doc in hastoloy at .012 ipr and 120sfpm. They think it is better to run it .050doc at .012ipr and 80sfm because the insert holds up for the hole job instead of changing one whole insert a part. It takes me almost 4x less time to do the same job. 😅
@@vcarriereso I see exactly where you’re coming from, but you gotta keep in mind that even small CNC machines weigh upwards of 5 tons. They’re massive. And on any machine that’s capable of running inconel or any pretty hard alloys, the difference in wear in 0.05 and .120 DOC is nothing. Also, most machines break due to operate error (crashing).
The real concern is gonna be precision in those machines taking a fat DOC in a hard material. If you’re got wide open tolerances, it doesn’t matter if your tool moves a few 0.001” but if you’re tryna hold 0.0001?? Shiiii I’m taking light cuts all day.
@@vcarriere Thats a pretty easy calculation, if you are 4x faster, you do the work of 4 days in one, so time wise you have the down time already covered after one day, but the spindels dont wear out that fast.
Also 80% of the tool limit doesnt mean 80% of the machine limit.
You cannot have 4X less anything. It is one fourth the time, not 4X less.
@gladeloy3341 I never said I was smart. Lol, but I do know how to cut metal well.
@@vcarriere Yes, if you simplify it like that, but the machine is not seeing any significant load from those whisper cuts. Running it slow like that would actually cause more wear since the spindle is turning for example 4 days insted of 1 and insted of 6 passes per part the it takes 20. Servos, quides, even the oilpump and coolant pumps would wear a lot more. Also it would be stupid to run slow for years to save spindle bearings that can be changed in 8 hours.
Every business owner or future entrepreneur should take some managerial accounting classes at night or online at a community or local college. You don’t need a degree if you’re working for yourself, take the classes that will be beneficial at your own pace and watch the magic of what a college education is SUPPOSED to do for you. Rather than getting a degree to get a job. You’ll find yourself understanding and applying the knowledge you have towards your business helping your business and your comprehension instead of having no context to the information.
Or you can buy 5 cncs, run 5 separate processes at once and have 5 parts in one hour. Maybe they’ll even let you have some coolant or cutting fluid.
This whole video is “if you can cut down time you should do that”
What a revelation
It appears that you're doing a rough shaping, and tolerances are going to be in spec, but that bit is running HOT!