21 Cooling Fans On One 280mm Radiator! Does Fan Size Matter?
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- Опубликовано: 17 окт 2024
- Have you ever seen those fan adapters, the things that let you take a 120mm fan and attach it to a 280mm rad. I always wondered why would you want to do that, Wouldn’t you be forfeiting performance by downsizing your fans? Ya, I didn’t know either so I decided to find out, I reached out to Noctua and asked them to send me over there best 140mm fan and there best 120mm fan. The fans they sent over were the NF-A14 and NF-A12x25, but I didn’t want to leave it at that. I thought, if smaller fans don’t matter what if you decided to go as small as possible, would that matter. I thought it would be a fun experiment so I asked Noctua if they would send some A4x20 as well, surprisingly they said yes and now its time to test. What happens when you reduce the size of the fans on you radiator to the extreme, I took 21 Nocuta NF-A4x20 fans attached them to my Kraken X62 and put them up against Noctuas best fans and the take away was surprising.
All this testing reminded me how great the NZXT Kraken X62 is, grab on at the link below.
amzn.to/2SK3t71
Notua Fans in this video
NF-A14
amzn.to/2ykr7gV
NF-A12x25
amzn.to/2yfFlQd
NF-A4x20
amzn.to/2SIZ3Nu
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I think Noctua did NOT regret sending those fans.
For science!
@@glxblrt For Sales!
For Riddance
Olamajosta R i d d a n c e
Bet the guy responding to the email asking for 21 little fans was giggling
Finally someone willing to tryout the stoner/shower thoughts everyones had
Thank Noctua lol
I mean you can only find videos of people testing this back in 2012.. but sure.. someone willing to try it out....
Im watching this stoned and i want to fly on it
And noctua being an awesome company, with obvious trust and interest towards this funny shit🤣
Well not all the shower thoughts.
"I wish I had a 3d printer..." How far you've come since then!
I was thinking the same thing.
Especially now, he probably has closets full of 3d printers of every flavor available
My thoughts exactly. By now Major Hardware has almost become a 3D Printer channel!
How about taking the tiny fans away one by one to see at what point u get signif rise in temps?
Cool thats a good idea!
build an ultra flat pc case to hang under your desk
@@Rem_NL :) challenge accepted
@@Rem_NL so, a 1U server chassis?
@@Rem_NL could get dammn difficult because of the graphic card (your pc probaly has a minimum thickness of your graphic card height+mainboard hieght)
With the current heatwave in Europe I would like to cover my body in heatsinks and all these little fans and see if it cools me down. No thermal paste though, it's bad for the skin. :P
Thermal pads it is then.
Could mount a heatsink to the power delivery (heart) much they mount a pacemaker. Theoretically, it should work.
same.
If the outside temperature is above body temperature that would actually heat you up even more.
What a torturous way to die if someone did it to you on purpose and just left you hooked up
You can brag to your friends "my fans cost more than your whole computer"
i actually have 10 ML 120 and 3 ML 140 fans... thats nearly 600$ cad if i bought them new. in a 1000D corsair Obsidian
Only reason the Noctua fans in my current build came out at a simi reasonable percent of the total build price is because I built an overkill water-cooled workstation and paid way too much for water cooling parts.
@@maniacmattmtl oh no... ml fans were super disappointing... Too loud.
@@stripes8812 I don't find them loud at all at less than 1000rpm. Any fan that spins 2500rpm is gonna be loud
@@davidreddick3016 yeah I feel ya, monster system but the liquid cooling and fans was2k$ cad
You seriously need an 3d printer :O This adapter would have been fairly easy and quick with a 300x300mm print volume printer, or even with a small printer in 2 pieces. The time you spent manually cutting all the holes you could be chillin' with a beer waiting for printer to finish
Great, so now we know that the radiator is the limiting factor here.
At 64 degrees, not 64 over ambient, it's more likely that it's a IHS/paste/block limitation than the radiator.
I'd like to see a push/pull configuration with some 5400rpm 120mm Sythe Gentle Typhoons on it. 150CFM each.
I think it is the water block and the fluid flow rate. The fans changed but the fluid flow over the CPU remained constant. The heat removed by the radiator remained constant enough that the fans did not matter much. To have a better test, he would need to set up a box and measure the flow rate of the different fan clusters. Because each block of fans ran at a different speed. It might also be possible to measure the power draw on the fan blocks as well.
Using the little fans as a front intake on a case like a fractal design meshify C?
I was more thinking to put one in the back, on the ventilation area, next to GPU bracket. It can pull air out when the GPU is active, while a low rpm A12x25 fan in the front is pulling air in. You don't need high rpm for good airflow. I have found that there is a point where higher rpm fans do not improve the cooling anymore or even work adversely. Steady, one-directional, undisturbed airflow is key.
pfft. put the little ones on the corsair obsidian 1000d. then you'll need like what.....200 of them 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Power consumption is about 8 times higher with the little ones.
Each motor also generates heat, which escapes easily in an open test like yours, but might might become noticeable in a PC case.
Actual noise levels would also be nice to see.
Every time I come back to this channel I become more impressed. You are clearly growing!
Two minor critiques:
1: Whenever you reveal new results or sets of numbers, like you did at 2:51 and 3:08, try to catch the attention of the viewer to indicate that something has changed. While watching a format like this, the viewer glances at and reads the numbers you initially show, and then they look back to you as you're talking and gesticulating (The eye always goes back to motion). Then, because the viewer is looking at you, having just a soft fade to a new set of numbers in the exact same place, size and style of the old numbers isn't eye-catching enough to immediately draw the viewer's eye back to the numbers, which makes the viewer, once he realizes numbers have changed, doubt as to whether or not he's missed something, or struggle to remember what the old numbers were. In light of this, I would recommend, especially when comparing numbers, to do more side-by-side, like you did at 7:22, but where you introduce the new numbers next to or beneath the old numbers to make comparison easier, so the viewer doesn't have to scrub backward in your video to compare. Or if you are switching to a new set and no longer showing the old, change up the positioning between numbers or do a full screen change, or a have a flashier transition, or verbally direct the viewer's attention back to the numbers first. Otherwise we're so focused on you and what you're saying that when the numbers fade mid sentence in the same spot, we might not catch the change as easily.
2. You buried the lead! I clicked on the video after seeing the thumbnail of all the crazy small fans on a radiator and reading the title, but then I just saw you sitting there talking about the conception of the video. You only have a few seconds to engage a viewer after they click, so your first few seconds should almost be a continuation of the thumbnail that teases what I'm about to see and hooks me. You have all this beautiful footage of the radiator and it's monolithic extravagance with all these fans, but it doesn't show up until half-way through. I would start with maybe 3-5 seconds of that footage as a, "This is what you're about to see" hook, then cut to you and do the rest of the video. That anticipatory glory footage teases what's to come and draws me in so I'm more likely to engage with the rest of the content, and creates a bigger payoff when you do finally show it in it's full glory.
Other than that, awesome content. Your montage of building the rig with the overhead pan shot was fantastic. This video was on par with a bitwit or jayz or linus video for sure! Keep up the great content!
Lol
You have to replace the little fans with bloweymatrons
Littely what I thought lmao
RIP eardrums and powerbill
LTT Fan?
This would be a great way to find out if there is bottleneck in the system other than the fans.
Your math is bad. Pressure is a function of force over area. You can't just add up the pressure from each individual A4x20 fan like you can with the air flow numbers. The greater the surface area one fan has to take care of, the lower its effective pressure is going to be.
That said, those little fans were very impressive! I thought they would be much louder and not perform nearly as well as they did!
Also, it's not really fair to say you can just replace any 140mm fan with a 120 and expect similar performance when you used the Best 120mm fan ever produced as the comparison point.
Yes, some pretty ropey maths going on there. High school physics anyone?
Y plus x minus z = banana
Alright nerd
I wouldn't say they're the best fans ever created. They gave me worse temps than other fans.
@@MajorHardware Bueller? Bueller?
Keep on going with stuff that's so silly that it's actually good. Saw the thumbnail and thought it was a car radiator :)
use NF-A4x20 on x570 chipset instead of supplied motherboard vendor fan
Yep, pretty much that (would have also done, if the only mATX option was cheap). Kinda surprised about that noise they made, for me those 40mm fans sounded better than those 120mm, horrible motor noise in those IMO. 140mm was just wind noise, that doesn't bother me.
Too thick
@@onboard3 I have 4 of the NF-A12x25 on my radiator in an open chassis and they are really quiet, the only way to hear motor noise is to get close with your ear. The Corsair ML 120 Pro I had previously have much higher motor noise, far louder than these noctuas (like audible electrical hum). My PSU fan (Seasonic Prime Ultra Titanium) also has an audible motor noise (like a slightly audible ratchet, my best explanation) and is the loudest sound my PC makes!
The NF A12x25 are awesome and quiet.
great idea. would watch!
@@LEXXIUS Cheers, likely just sound the mic picked up but not audible. I had one 120mm stock fan from Aerocool case that was 1000rpm and quiet, except horrible motor noise that made it unusable. Still there on my pile of fans, think I used it one day :D
When I saw the thumbnail browsing on mobil I thought I was looking at a 2 meter tall server with too many fans.
Same
Same
Reminds me of when I modded my Silverstone TJ08-E front intake panel, to use 4x Noctua 92mm fans instead of the stock Silverstone AP181, and it performed essentially the same, just quieter...was a pretty fun little mod.
I like your channel, because you think outside of the box. You swim against the tide, even though the sign says "beware of the riptide". People like you, are the ones who make great discoveries.
What would be interesting to see is if these small fans can help a custom water loop that has a undersized radiator on it
Honestly as long as air flow covers the core and passes through the radiator. Fan size wont matter. The biggest change would be in radiator size.
I love the experimentation. Nobody else out there would think to try out 21 Nocuta NF-A4x20 fans! Nice job!
They are so much quieter then I thought they would be
Noctua: SHUT UP AND TAKE MY FANS
They wanted to get rid of their fanclub.
Telling you, man, it's incredible the engineering behind Noctua fans. That they can make those 1U server fans so quiet is a beautiful thing. Thinking about putting one of those on my NVMe heatsink.
I love the crazy experiments you do man. Do more with the small fans, I feel there is a thread to be tugged on here.
I have another idea we will see if I can get alphacool on board
No matter how many other brands anyone could think of, Noctua seems to be the only brand that has reached the summit so far.
"Sure you can have 4 fans."
*HOW ABOUT 21 MORE*
For the first part, it makes perfect sense that a good 120mm will perform similarly to a 140mm because the turbulence on the fan exhaust would push air beyond just the 120mm area, and cause airflow to reach the remaining borders of the 280mm radiator that the fan doesn't directly "point at". So unless you literally tape up the 280 radiator into a 240 preventing any airflow, the 280 rad still gonna do the same thing and won't magically become a 240 rad.
I have a feeling if you use a 92mm fan and 3D print some effective ducting to prevent static pressure loss and maximize airflow coverage, you could well get the same results as 120 vs 140 too.
2020 major hardware looking back "i wish i had a printer"
I've always thought it would be interesting to use those tiny fans to cool specific components, like VRMs or something. Not sure it would make a difference but hey, you've got so many now
She'll tell you size doesn't matter but in the end it does. JayZ did it a while back. Still great video and cool idea, keep em coming! 👍
Haha! What a test! It looks dope and performs well. Good on you and good on Noctua for supporting such content!
Noctua has been great
I love your channel and your Projects. Underrated Channel!
That has to be the sickest fan setup I have ever seen, way cooler than any rgb or color scheme or other design elements. If I ever saw that in someones computer it would blow my mind.
Thanks for the unique content, is fun to watch and really cool... And has sweet info passed in the end...
For the fans, try cooling everything... RAM, HDD, increase airflow in chassis, try cool monitor... hey, you asked...😁
You would think the A4's would do terribly as each hub just blocks air, I guess noctua is just that good. Its cool that you tested the 140mm and 120mm differences now we can save a few dollars getting the slightly cheaper smaller ones and not lose out on performance
Create a VRM and RAM cooling brackets and cool down your test bench even more.!
This earned a sub. That's twice you did some kind of testing that I've never seen before. I will be keeping my eye on you sir.
You're limited more by the flow rate of the pump and the coldplate design than by the fans with an aio like that.
That is about as wrong of a statement as you could possibly make. Fluid flow rate has neglibible effect on temps whether it be AIO or custom loop. Cold plate design effects are less than margin of error if you are using any commercially available AIO or custom waterblock.
@@Luxumbra69 No, you could hardly be more wrong. While that may usually be true, it isn't always. Much like any other system there can be bottlenecks in cooling. Usually the largest bottleneck is the ability of the fins to transfer heat into the air passing through them. In this case though, since there is almost certainly differing amounts of airflow through those fins, it appears that the bottleneck is now the ability of the cooler to transfer heat from the CPU package to the fins. This could be due to water flow rate, coldplate design, or radiator design, or maybe some combination of the 3. Improving those things is the only way to improve the cooling performance.
@@GuyFromJupiter pretty much,you would not expect any difference even with a 20k RPM industrial fan
@@GuyFromJupiter Thanks, thats the explanation I was searching for. No way those small fans have the same rate of airflow with >50% of the path blocked by the fans.
Interesting test. And it shows how CFM works dependant on area of mass. Thank you.
Build a ridiculously flat gaming system with side-flow air cooling.
I modded a dell poweredge r710, RIDICULOUSLY flat, with 1070s
@@Appri I was just about to say. Water cooled PC in a 1u server case.
@@NinjaInTheFirstDegree Can you even get radiators to fit in a 1U high (40mm) rack case and get some decent air to go through it?
@@Stoney3K LinusTechTips did it in their Minecraft Server.
Hey man! I've never heard of you or your channel before. I've been into tech and tech videos for 15 years now. I saw your video in my recommended and thought: " Who dis?" Love your content. I am now adding your channel to my subscriptions. Yay!
well, the 40mm fans in servers are running at 10'000 RPM... no wonder they are louder ;)
Yup
Wow someone who doesn't talk for 30 mins and gets to the point. Subd
now if only those tiny fans were used on x570 motherboards for the chipset and were made thinner.
Well, they *are* also made thinner :D
great experiment, those 5000 rpm fans reminded me toffifee chocolate
im not apple fan, nor samsung
not intel, amd, nvidia
but im Noctua fan
boyyyyyyy
I don't even know why anyone would test this with those fans, but YOU did! Thank you, now we know not to try this ourselves xD
You completely ignored the Power consumption of the fans..
..it's i little detail but would be great if you compare every detail :)
..so Power consumption would be:
2x NF-A14 PWM @ 100% = 2x 1,56 Watts = Total of 3,12 Watts,
2x NF-A12 PWN @ 100% = 2x 1,75 Watts = Total of 3,5 Watts,
21x NF-A4 PWM @ 100% = 21x0,5 Watts = Total of 10,5 Watts !!!
Turns out big fans have a additional perk :)
Always fun to see a tech-tuber being the crazy beta-tester for hardware, billing the companies.
It's awesome.
I bet there is a technician at Noctua saying "When *I* asked to do it, it was rejected, but when *he's* asking, it's okay?!?!?!"
Try those mini fans on tower coolers
I love this channel. He does all the stuff i wonder about but have no means to test
Wow, this was good missclick :D Nice video! Subscribed
Happy to hear it
This has quickly become one of my favorite channels on youtube. I guess you could say...
Im a huge FAN...
OHHH SNAP
Use the tiny fans to build an extremely flat PC that can fit beneath a Screen or maybe under the desk.
I don't think they are much flatter.
What do you mean? @@99Etien
@@IIHAIAHII I mean that using these tiny fans won't make your Pc flatter, since their height is the same as the big fans. Especially since you need those frames to fit them in.
@@99Etien No it isn't and no you don't. You can use those fans individually. Merely the depth should be more or less the same.
Gotta love Noctua being willing to experiment like this
Wild, try a lower rpm? Perhaps it just needs air flow
There is a term in HVAC called "Heat load" this is a number that represents the amount of thermal transfer it takes to heat or cool. Because of this i think that the amount of cooling you have is sufficient with all fan types (hence the similar results). I say this needs another test... Small 120 or 140 mm rad with the same cpu and tests (maybe custom loop so you can get a top end block). but on the other hand you could use a I9 extreme edition with a similar 240 rad and the same test. The whole point of this is to see how much heat the fans can pull off the rad if the heat is too much for the size of the radiator. And no I do not mean push it to thermal throttle. :)
yes using a smaller rad will make a big difference to the results then you have to move the heat fast
maybe the radiator was too thin?
Definitely feels like the limiting factor is the radiator and not the fans. Get a thicker, more dense radiator, and the smaller fans will do better once it gets to the point where you're limited by airflow.
I think it'd be interesting to test it with some form of obstruction and see how it goes. This is super informative, though. Thanks for going through the effort
stack them all in a huge line and put it on a chipset and see what happens.
I wonder, Perhaps that radiator is just cooling the fluid down to room temp due to its size vs the systems watt output. If this is happening, then would the results change with a single fan rad or if you had a system overclocked heavy enough or with enough watt output?
those little tiny server fans are so awesome I have two of them in my collection
It seems like the temps 38/64/58 might just be capped by what the water cooler can do. I wonder if lowering the fan speeds to 75%, 50%, or 25% make a difference. If you can draw less power and produce less noise but at the same results, it be useful information to have. One that note, it be nice to know the power draw of each.. Thanks
More videos like this... I love weird cooling experiments..... Can you use a vent tube to hook up a window unit AC to cool your PC? I've always wanted to see that one
We need more people like you in charge of the world.
Totally loved this! Lemme tell ya...that panel of 21 fans looks freakin sweet 🤩
This is electrical engineering Art... Fan displacement and efficiency aside. Thanks for sharing this work
Looking at that thumbnail I though you had a pizza on the side of your PC until I inspected further lol
If only you knew back then the things you'd be doing now that you have multiple 3D printers haha
Maximum Boost by Corky Bell has a chapter on intercoolers and radiators. Basically your intake duct area on the front of the car only has to be 25% the area of the fin area of the radiator. The other 75% of where the air passes through is consumed by fins and tubes, but that's on a car which is moving. Also that ratio does not account for the fan frame or hub motor in your application. There is also a tapered duct from the front bumper to the radiator surface so this idea may not be practical for a PC. Hope this helps.
Before finishing the vid those little fans made me laugh so hard there like MacDonalds kid meal toys
You can hook fans into a raft type assembly by zip tying the corners together. It doesn't help with cable management, but I've used this to make tall and narrow window fans.
Vid quality is getting better and better. Keep it up bro! 👍🏽
Thank you
I'd love to see a little re-testing. Maybe either something hotter (how hot does an i5 2500K get compared to a OC'd i9 9900k?)
Throw in the mix some ebay 140/120mm fans see how different they go compared to Noctua?
Thicker rad/custom loop testing?
Needs more like a 9940x-9980x. Lol... Should also yieldh more consistent temps, compared to a 9900k.
Push and pull setup for fans on radiator is best, when it comes to numbers of course there is always an advantage.
Here's some ideas for those small fans.. 1: put some small spacers on the corners of the fan like 2 sided sponge tape and sit a few of them flat on top of the GPU facing up to help PULL heat out of the card (notice the gpu fans always on the bottom pushing up) ... 2: if your radiator mounts to the top of the case with the fans blowing out and up, do the same thing as the gpu BUT NOT directly over the fan blowing out because you will hear the air colliding so best to place it where the bottom fans meet together "half & half" to again help PULL heat out from the radiator (exp. if there's 2 fans mounted on the radiator place a 3rd on top the case between the 2 bottom fans so the top fan cover half of the under line fans.. (triangle stack) make sure to leave a gap from the fan sitting on top this will help draw more air faster..
I'm increasingly convinced that the cooling tests which include a radiator in the system are operating at that AIO/CCL's upper bound for performance, and that using a solution with greater possible cooling would provide more useful results when using atypical configurations. When all options are returning identical results, it stands to reason that somewhat redesigning the experiment to obtain more useful data is merited.
Just imagine all those 21 fans got single ARGB led built in! And was placed front side of a glass front panel case!
Yeah I would go definitely for the setup, even if it is 5-10% hotter.
Never thought of this concept mate. Nice idea thanks for sharing.
That's a lot of fans. Back in my extreme cooling days (TEC+Waterblock) I rigged-up a mazda MX5 car rad with its two 12 inch fans. I had the fans powered by a variable PSU and as they were sped up, the sound was identical to a C130.
Really cool test. Noctua make the best fans ever 😊
Would be awesome if they made a desk fan or an office fan. They'd sell like hotcakes! 😜
Very cool, those 40mm fans were really impressive! Now think what would happen if you'd tested them correctly!! J/K :P
Well, meant more as a suggestion really. You know how there is a "blind spot" underneath the hub of a fan? Well, with the 120/140mm fans on there you get 2 blind spots, whilst with the 40mm fans on, you get 21 blind spots! I had hoped you'd have thought about that, and made another test condition: Mounting the fans on a standoff frame, lifting the fans maybe 10 - 20mm off the surface, allowing the air pressure to get underneath the hubs on the fans, and hopefully move air over fins otherwise blocked by the fan hubs. I don't think this will do much for the 120/140mm fans, but it could very well be that such an arrangement would be beneficial to the 40mm fan array. :)
Major, what kind of controller xbox are you using back there? that's awsome!, you have any link to find it? let me know. Thanks!
Yo dawg, you heard right.
I do like fans.
*This is why I'm here in the first place.*
I have a two 200mm fans on a 280mm radiator :) The Cooler Master H500M mesh case comes equipped with two of those in the front and I just slapped a radiator behind the fans to push the air inside the case.
I wasted a lot of tech stuff and I've honestly not seen something like this. That mini fan array is comical to look at, another great video.
If I had a 3d printer I would go ham
Used to be there were few options for higher static pressure 140mm fans so the 120mm adapter thing was an obvious choice for 140mm radiators. Now days there are a million options just as good and in some cases better when it comes to 140 non RGB.
Just what I was looking for: I was in doubt between A14 (2x) or A12x25 (3x) for front case intake (Meshify C). Now I know what to do. You convinced me that 2 A12x25 fans at low rpm can produce equal airflow with less noise, than 2 of the bigger A14s. Let alone when I add the 3rd and lowest positioned A12x25 fan, which I only need to turn on (setting fancurves in Speedfan/FanXpert3 ) when the GPU requires some extra airflow. That should produce a nice and quiet system. A fourth A12x25 fan in the back at low rpm to make sure the airflow remains horizontal through the case. I could experiment with one of those small fans in the back, next to the GPU bracket to pull air out, only when the GPU is ramping up. This fan, combined with the lowest A12x25 pushing air in at the front, will create more horizontal airflow along the GPU.
you cant go wrong with those a12x25
Interesting. I would have thought the smaller fan option and additional surface area of each of the frames and hubs of the fans wouldn't allow for as much passable air through the radiator, thus inhibiting cooling performance. However I guess they make up for it by compensating for higher RPMs to better push the air through the radiator.
What most people don't understand is the reasoning about static pressure/ airflow and how it affects cooling performance...basically you want 2.5mm H²O of pressure per 30mm thick radiator (15-21 f/i) by following this rule you won't have any issues.
I know this post is old but would like to help a brother out there struggling ;).
I love your content man, never stop!
I got one of those adaptors since I had trouble fitting a full size fan into a space in my Shift X ITX case.....the last fan on the back of my radiator was blocked by the pump mount, so ended up using one of these....not ideal but worked great. Maybe others have a small system and sometimes big fans dont fit.
Hey thx for the video. Quick suggestion, add charts! Those are nice visuals for this kind of comparison.
Nobody: ....
Servers: I NEED MORE FANS
next can you try a 120x120mm radiator attached to one of those industrial blowers for those bounce castles
I would not have expected that.
Could you make a fan that has one big in the middle and 4 small ones on the corners to max out the used area?
You could also put all the fans in a line to see when Performance does not get increased anymore.
You have earned a sub for this video, showing the little guys some love
noctua seems like a chill company
Do you think that the A14 would be a touch quieter if you spaced them off the front of the rad like the A12 are? I found a few years ago that putting a spacer plate can really help the sound with a push config, and a pull config is also quieter. It seems like the turbulent flow makes more noise and that spacer plate helps smooth the flow.
One seriously good use for those A4s for enthusiast consumers though, could be to optimize case airflow. Either by directing extra fresh air directly to a problematic component, e.g. the CPU, or by increasing the airflow at a part of the case that sees less air passing by, like the bottom left quadrant in many cases
The only reasonable suggestion I could give is using a 120mm Rad (if you have one) and stacking those fans together (on top of each other) or testing how well all of your fans perform in a Push/Pull scenario (fans on both sides of the Radiator). Stacked, esp the little ones should perform significantly better than the A14 or A12.
That radiator looked giant on the thumbnail! :D