I didn't like tony in season 1, he came across as a bit of a sociopath. I always felt like he used people like pawns in his private chess game, like sid and michelle, and when he kissed maxie it felt like he was just trying to mess with his head. I felt like his only authentic relationship was with effy who idolised him. I did have more sympathy for him in season 2
Tony is just such a well written character, I find his redemption arc believable as once he lost everything (his independence, his friends bar Maxxie, his girlfriend, even his ‘smarts’) from the accident he realised howmuch he relied on Sid, Michelle and family etc. I still think though his two loves in life are Sid as his best friend and Effy, not Michelle.
Honestly after being in an abusive relationship with someone with a personality disorder I can't see the arc so simply. If you're a teenage viewer then fine, but adults should be able to see that season 1 Tony was NOT normal. To me his behaviour smacked of a serious personality disorder and those are extremely hard to change as they're not like normal mental health issues. Everyone does fucked up things now and again but he was at about level 10/10 all day every day.. Funnily enough, him losing everything isn't a believable trigger for a personality change in a disordered person. But a brain injury probably is lol. If a sociopath loses everything they may become vulnerable for a bit because they know that's the best way to get help so they can get back on top. I'd be wary of people as toxic as Tony because without serious psychological intervention they always return to their old selves (again, brain injury is a plausible method though).
Also the moment in the hospital after “saving” effy, where Tony said: “i know i could be a wanker sometimes but people like that. and i like people liking that. I don’t want to be a wanker and effy knows that” to the sid
Ohhh I love Tony's weird trippy episode in S2! Yeah, the girl is Tony's female self. The episode is based on Jungian psychology (they discuss the term "animus" a lot theoughout the episode as well). The different versions of the man show what Tony could potentially be, afaik.
I really love Tony, and one thing I thought you just barely mentioned in both videos ( no offense they are incredible and made me rewatch this iconic show ) is Tony's apologize to Sid in season one before the accident. He, which is almost unbelievable considering his attitude, flat out addmited how scared he was when he thought Effie was in danger and his only thought of how much he wished Sid were ther by his side and that when Sid finally arrived in the car it was almost a mirscle to him. And in the hospital he told this to Sid and addmited how much needed him and how much he valued his friendship. And then in early season two when Tony was in his most vulnerable state he constantly asked for Sid's help and Sid's company and was genuinely hurt when Sid wasn't by his side. I am not defending Sid and Michelle's actions in season two but I do understand them to some degree. Tony was such a driving force in their life that in so many ways dictated their actions and experiences that for them to see such a fragile and defenseless Tony was essentially like losing him they felt absolutely lost, and of course they resorted to the only other person who could understand what they were going through, including the guilt of negelcting Tony when he needed them the most: Each other.
This is all entirely fair. It's worth remembering though that sick manipulative people can be genuinely vulnerable and needy when they're down and out, but once they're back on top they go back to being arseholes. It's also not uncommon for them to be possessive or protective of people close to them, even their top victims, but continue to abuse them even if they "saved" them from something else. It's kind of complicated, but his behaviour in season 1 went well beyond normal shitty teenage behaviour and into the territory of having a serious personality disorder. If so then long term change is much less likely. People do crazy shit, but when it's all concentrated and happens so often you've got to start to wonder if it's not something more serious. I'm not disagreeing btw, I think this is just an FYI to younger readers. Trust your gut. You'll know when it's more than just selfishness.
@@IshtarNike Which is exactly the opposite my comment said...where I mentioned Tony started to recognize his own behaviour and started to amend it by his own volition and not because of his vulnerable state thanks to the accident.
I'm a big fan of this show, especially these first two seasons. I enjoyed listening to your analysis, both here and in the other videos you've made, and you brought up some really valid points I hadn't considered before. I think you're right about the 'Tony' episode of season 2 - the best way to watch that one is to view it as a dream sequence, or bad trip, as Tony starts to fully process his trauma and return to a healthy state of consciousness after his accident. Cassie gives him ecstasy, and he has a severe panic attack and vomits. He then meets the girl (Beth) in the bathroom. Sid and Michelle visit him the next day, and he's hiding under the bed because he can't confront them, or his vulnerability. Everything since he took the ecstasy could be part of the dream, or the dream could start from here - it's difficult to draw an exact line, it could be either/or, or a mixture of both, but I don't think Tony gets out from 'under the bed' until the end of the episode. The man on the train is symbolic of his own sense of damage and disfigurement. He tells Tony about his wounds and how he got them, but he also displays an attitude of acceptance in the way he talks and appreciation of life (the egg and cress sandwich). In the dream, Tony's going to the university interview because he's thinking of his future, but he still doesn't fit in well with what's expected of him. The tour guides try to show him around the campus and keep him on the straight and narrow, but he keeps running into Beth and going astray. To look at it from a deeper perspective, I think she could represent his anima, as he's had trouble with his impulses and feelings during his recovery, and she's guiding him back to having a deeper and non-socially dictated sense of himself - fully embodying his animus, or sense of masculine agency and intellect, which he lost after the accident (something like the new and more evolved version of the old Tony, which is what we get after this episode). She tries to get him to 'walk through the dark' in the laboratory (full of 'fragile' equipment, which he smashes, and a place where 'experiments' happen), and then they escape to the dorm where they encounter the two smokers who have a naturally rebellious attitude. He smokes with them, and they get naked (physically, but also symbolically), and Beth gets a tattoo. Of course, a tattoo is a permanent marking, like the man's wounds on the train. The man said he set himself on fire (which in a way, Tony did by being a sociopath in season one), and Beth's tattoo is of flames. Now, when Tony's 'naked' and at his most vulnerable, she berates him for his weakness, and tries to encourage him to fight through it - problematic I know, but this is still the different sides of Tony's psyche talking to him. He then goes back to the lecturer (who is perhaps the non-wounded side of the man on the train - his 'healed' and more conventional doppelgänger), and they argue, with the outcome being that Tony realises he doesn't want to end up as some sad, angry old man sat in a room, berating other people because he never had the courage to be himself. He returns to the dorm, has sex with the girl, and his inner-spark returns. Bear in mind the episode opens with Effy reciting the myth of Orpheus and Eurydice - Tony's been through hell now, and he's reclaimed his spirit. The girl tells him not to look back (just as Orpheus is told in the myth), and Tony returns from the underworld (from hiding 'under the bed', now outside of the dream) to confront Sid and Michelle in a way that is reminiscent of his old season one self, but also less dysfunctional and showing more wisdom in the way he deals with the situation. There's no games here, he just tries to communicate what he sees as the truth. At the end of the episode, we see Tony has the tattoo (not literal, though it's depicted as such), which he gained by fusing the two parts of his personality, accepting his wounds, and reclaiming his fire (individuality) despite his setbacks. Now he knows who he is, and he's wearing his marks proudly. Phew! Sorry for the long post, I just thought it would be fun to lay this all out after watching this video. I'm a writer myself, so I do like to think about these things. It's a weird episode for sure, but also one of the most interesting to me in the first generation. It was a good way to display the inner-workings of Tony's trauma and recovery, without just having him suddenly acting fine. I don't think there's any other way they could have done it within the space of the ten episodes which would have done his character arc justice. I hope my interpretation above gives yourself and anyone else who reads it a deeper appreciation for this episode. :)
I really liked Michelle. I think the reason she got so attached to Sid, was because she based a lot of her self worth off of boy's attraction and interest in her. She may feel her only worth is in her looks - Tony's nickname for her was literally Nips. This isn't to defend what Michelle did, although I don't think she was under the impression that her and Tony's relationship was going to continue. And since she wasn't getting the male attention and validation she needed, she latched onto Sid.
Sid sleeping with Michelle was a crush fulfilled. Even if it was from a place of vulnerability since his dad died and he wrongly assumed Cassie was cheating on him in Scotland. Because of Tony's loss of sexual confidence, Michelle assumed it was over between them so getting with Sid was no surprise. She even told Sid he was a better lover than Tony which says that the latter of old was selfish in the bedroom and only cared for his own pleasure. And since we're speaking of Michelle's self worth being defined by male attention, here's another factor. Not only had Michelle grown up watching her mother caught in a constant pattern of marriage and divorce but she also grew up with no father or father figure in her life.
Amazing video, as always! I fell in love with Tony's character the moment he appeared on camera. He's as fascinating as Alison DiLaurentis if you think about it. I totally agree that his parents' aggressiveness could have had a lot to do with his manipulative tendencies. It's not uncommon for people who grew up in dysfunctional households to then romanticise or copy that same behaviour because that's what's most familiar (= "normal") to them. He literally grew up to love conflict and playing with people's emotions, he saw no problem whatsoever with that. It was a hell of a ride and I also wondered if the accident was all there was to his character development, but I agree that he showed positive signs before. If anything, it would be really interesting to see how he would have changed without having an accident. Like how much would he change? Would it last long? Maybe emotionally impactful things and therapy could lead to a healthier, nicer Tony who still had his edge and his skills intact? I guess we will never know, but I agree that when it comes to folks like him or Alison they've crossed too many moral lines and maybe it wouldn't be realistic or such an abrupt/perfectly ideal, smooth journey if they completely changed. As for his relationship with Michelle, that really hits a spot bc I grew up dealing with unhealthy attachments to guys/friends who treated me poorly. So on the one hand, I can't help but to love toxicity in fictional relationships bc it scratches that itch, but on the other I'm aware that as a society we shouldn't send the wrong message, particularly to vulnerable people such as the target audience (probably teens who were dealing with their own issues.) Btw I thought they were back together in the end! I think there's even a dinner scene where they tell Cassie, idk. But anyways, our own personal experiences and baggage influence how we consume media and how we process what we see, not only culture/society at large (of course that also plays a huge role.) I mean to say that the craze over enemies-to-lovers stories and "bad boys" who are actually abusive is probably more layered and multi-causal than it appears at first sight. Exploring the psychological theories about it is always interesting. Thanks for giving this a read if you do. I love everything about your videos, especially your ability to dissect characters and their possible psychological backgrounds. Lots of love!! ❤❤❤
They do wind up together but then decide to go their own separate ways in the end, talking in the car before going off to college (and before Sid runs off after Cassie) about how "they were really good together, huh? really special..." or something along those lines and he kinda agrees. It's a bittersweet but good ending.
I hope you discuss season 7 of skins as whole video in terms of its place in the show and the choices it makes with Effy, Cook and Cassie's characters and storylines. Keep up the great work
I thought tony was a total dick but a great character. He was very clever and his father was a man child which he had no respect for. He only respected effy because she was immune to his manipulation .Tony enjoyed testing the limits of how far he could push and play games with people. He was the ultimate toxic friend boyfriend.Michelle was a wet lettuce in the beginning with regards to tony but this was her first relationship.I think the show did a good job of teen’s trying to work their way through relationships in a world of dysfunctional parenting and adults around them.
17:02 For those wondering about the weird episode, it was a dream that Tony had when he fall asleep while Effy was telling a story. The man was his future as a looser if he didn't fixed his life, the girl was his past and was there to remember him how competent he was.
Also, I didn't discuss this much in the video- but do you think Tony being a teenager at all affects your perception of him? I tend to root more for younger characters and teenagers because they still have the potential to mature and "grow up". Or in your mind, would he still be unforgivable for things he did in his past, regardless of his age
Totally. It doesn't excuse what he's done, but like another comment said it feels unfair to consider him a hopeless cause because he's still a child in many ways. I really liked you how pointed out that his parents emotional neglect has affected him. They continued to fail him in order of guidance but also failed to hold him accountable to how he harmed others. He's not properly an adult yet and just like on a playground the parents take charge to apply accountability, they should be active enough in his life to know these things and address them
I think some things like abusing Michelle shouldn't be dismissed as just "immaturity." Violent or manipulative tendencies are good indicators of serious issues and that the person is either unstable or dangerous/unreliable. Maybe the less serious things like some mind games and schemes could be explained as him being an asshole teenager who thought messing with others was fun, but again that's quite an antisocial conduct. The most typically adolescent things he did were partying around, drinking, being wild, etc.
i love Tony, but i always found his character arc very extreme. Not necessarily unbelievable, but it's just hard to wrap my head around the idea of sociopath tony and sweet tony being the same human lmao
I dont think Michelle's reaction to Tony (after the accident, when intimate) was that... evil. If I had been in a relationship with a manipulative, emotionally abusive, serial cheating, all about sex bf, and then all of the sudden have him be a stark contrast to who i had known him to be as a person would be so confusing!!!! When she was trying to be intimate with Tony again, I could understand why she would break down, shut down and run away. She was so use to hearing him backhand insult/compliment her body, play mind/sex games with her to control, or gain power in the relationship (homage to his psych paper).... to then abruptly have him be vulnerable, honest and unable (even when he was trying) would probably be such a mind fuck as it is happening. I dont think she was upset about the sex, I think she was just in shock by how much the accident changed him. I think she was scared because she isn't use to Tony behaving like that, and was so use to him being "all about sex", so it freaked her out. I think it would feel like derealization, like what you are going through isnt real. Getting together with Sid, yes that was.. evil. I could understand finding comfort in Sid, who is also close with Tony, but to sleep with him when you know he has lusted over you forever and "loved him like a brother" is messed up... and also the fact that Cassie is your 'friend', but you didnt consider how she might feel? Regardless of what Sid assumed about Cassie (cheating), I still wouldnt pursue a close friends' ex. Or my vulnerable ex's best friend...
You know how Sid's grandad, uncle and cousins all have variations of the name "Alexander"? But his dad, Mark, doesn't because he's the 'family disappointment'. Wonder if Tony's mom "Anthea" naming her son "Anthony" is for similar reasons?
You were correct. Honestly after being in an abusive relationship with someone with a personality disorder I 100% cannot deal with people who so easily forgive this shit. If you're a teenage viewer then fine, but adults should be able to see that season 1 Tony was NOT normal. To me his behaviour smacked of a serious personality disorder and those are extremely hard to change as they're not like normal mental health issues. Funnily enough, him losing everything isn't a believable trigger for a personality change in a disordered person. But a brain injury probably is lol.
Late reply but totally agree, it always felt like a cop out because they had written him to be someone with irredeemable qualities and realised they’d gone too far, so they had to find a way to reset his character. It would’ve been better if he received consequences for his actions in a different way. That’s something that’s always bothered me about season 2. I think Michelle is really badly judged but it’s also due to unfair writing imo.
Happy Halloween to you too, girl! ❤ I love hearing your opinion on the topics, but I love your voice too. I could listen for hours ~. And I understand that most teenagers are mean. They don't know all the consequences of their actions, and most of them say things and do things that are mean more often than they believe. Even the good kids sometimes. But that is because they are growing, they are learning through the adults in their lives, and they are still learning what pain is, and how much things can hurt. So, I tend to believe that teens can change somehow. Tony has one of the best storylines on a teen show and is still one of my favorite characters
I need to rewatch skins. I wayched it when it first aired and i thought i remembered what happened, but i have no memory of half the stuff that happened to Tony watching this 😂
Despite my other comments. Tony being incredibly fucked up is well written and explained well by their fucked up home life. People assume only downright beatings or sexual abuse are what fucks people up hard. But you can definitely a person as fucked up as Tony from a seemingly "medium" fucked up family like that. Anyway I'm glad you pointed out that his behaviour went well beyond normal shitty male behaviour. Being a cheater is very different to cheating on purpose tland trying to get found out multiple times just for fun. (It looks worse nowadays but in the 2000s people would barely bat an eye at their dads behaviour, he'd just be eccentric and no one would question the long term effects on the kids, i know because my dad is kinda like that too lol😅).
@@Senate300 Definitely. Effy even says so in the 2nd season that they're so neglectful and ignore her and Tony and her best friend, Panda, even says "they don't mean to f*ck you up, Ef, but they do it" in regards to the parents just arguing and yelling at each other and stuff and definitely not caring as much for the kids. The Tony incident strains the parent's relationship which leads to marital problems and further neglect, so most definitely it is partly to blame.
Tony Stonem was my favourite character of the 1st generation and for 2 seasons straight he had the best solo episodes. When you take away all the mythology surrounding Tony's sociopathy, one would simply see a local golden boy who's ennui of everyone and everything that came so easily to him resulting in him taking it all for granted and the need to create chaos for his own entertainment at the expense of those closes to him became his undoing. The most we saw Tony do in terms of psychological bullying was flaunt his affairs in front of his girlfriend(Michelle) then dangle her in front of his best friend(Sid) like fish bait, fully aware of his obsession with her. In Josh Stock who he framed for incest in his attempt to regain possession of Michelle, he got the opponent he deserved and left his beloved sister fairgame to be targeted in retaliation. Especially since Josh was 5 times more cunning, calculated and ruthless with an axe to grind. Tony's journey after being hit by a bus was most impressive. From having to overcome his trauma, learn to read and write, regain his sexual confidence and rediscover the value of his friendships which he previously took for granted. But by the time he rediscovered his appreciation for Michelle it was too little too late since both were parting ways in the higher education department. The University Open Day represented his state of mind after the bus accident. Be it the two friends made for each other but are afraid to make that leap. Be it the disfigured man who held the mirror to his own mental disfigurement that left him stunted. Be it the arrogant lecturer who he would've became if he didn't humble himself and grow out of the arsehole phase. Or the mystery girl who was his anima and the female counterpart of his old self. After sex with her his healing was complete. Sidenotes: Since Michelle finished with Tony for good and took their whole crew with her, it would've been great to see how Tony cope with that and not in control anymore and Michelle coming into her own power. I believe his actions would become more reckless, impulsive, anger driven and violent. Had it not been for Effy's kidnapping of course.
His journey after getting hit by the bus always made me like him a lot more as someone who has both been disabled since birth but has also been made way worse due to underlying hEDS making me super clumsy and causing me to get hurt; falling back in 2016 and causing myself to gain a TBI from a concussion which I had no clue I had (therefore got no medical treatment despite passing out and dealing with visual distortions) until nowadays where it's been discovered my left eye lags 10+ seconds behind my right so I am confused and my skull thickened making me head hurt and further wrecking my mental state. It's been a tough journey of trying to recover from everything and just live, so seeing him go through his journey was both tough but cathartic and made me really like his character a lot more after that.
Dark triad personalities only hope is a traumatic brain injury, then again it's usually others who benefit from that, dark triad can be extremely adaptive in certain environments
I agree with your interpretation of the burnt man being somehow a product of Tony's imagination or a depiction of how human interactions feel for Tony. He experiences rejection and betrayal, partly because of what the accident did to him and the longing for someone who understands you and treats you as an equal is probably immense. The fact that the same face later shows up to bully him might also be a symbol of his two closest friends both cheating on him even tho they assure him before that they support him, like Sid telling him Tony should still pursue Michelle etc. So people who he thinks he can trust are actually not trustworthy but instead, cruel to him. It's literally a two-faced person haha.
I believe the lecturer represents what would've become if he got older and never grew out of his arsehole attitude. Remember when Tony said to him "I'm you before you shriveled and died. And I don't wanna go where you've been".
i dont think there was a redemption arc and tony never really turned soft, he went through consequences of his actions and learned a few things but i feel like this is giving him too much credit for basic decency (as its usually done for male characters while females with the same type of writing get the harsh criticism forever)
Ohhh this is sooo bad, you are telling me that you didn’t understand which for me is the best chapter in the whole series’s? (The campus visit) it’s one of my favourite episodes ever, cause it shows you a person very broken inside, that for some trauma (the accident) it’s not himself anymore, he finds himself as this broken version of his past self. And his unconscious gets him into this journey of rediscovering of the self and understanding that the blockage that he has it’s just in his head in his perception, cause he has already overcome the physical scars that the accident gave to him. It’s a very very inspiring episode. When he conquers back his identity and confidence. Loved it
i feel like michelle did get more out of the relationship than just sex but that she felt like that was what he cared about and if he couldn’t do that anymore then he didn’t actually love her
I think Michelle was very shitty in s2 but as a 17 year old , we can cut her some slack. She always based her self worth on being “shaggable” if that’s even a word, I think she uses it in one episode to describe himself, but she does love Tony I feel because we see her pining for him.
I love Skins but the change is too unbelievable and that ruins it for me. I would’ve gone with a change after the accident. It’s cliché but it can be a more believable scenario.
You've never dealt with a TBI, then. As someone suffering from a longtime TBI (one that slowly presented itself, but I didn't know til 6 years later and by then it was too late to reverse the damage) I can tell you that it changes you and can do so in very dramatic and unrealistic ways. I fell back in 2016 and broke my nose, which also caused a concussion and some form of unknown TBI (no one took me seriously despite me passing out because my "broken nose" was simply breaking the cartilage from the bone and deviating my septum) later they discovered that my sinuses on the left side completely clogged up with mucus and couldn't be unblocked and I was lacking oxygen to my brain because of it and my skull thickened on the whole left side of my face. I began getting double vision, visual distortions, halo effects in my eye (essentially seeing "the Matrix" as everyone jokes), etc. on top of dizziness, brain fog, sleep disturbances/insomnia, facial pain, head pounding, numbness in the face, eye dryness/drooping/pain, and huge changes to my mental illnesses (ADD, FND, Anxiety, PTSD, Disassociation, and Depression). I went from being super active and able to work and live a fulfilled life and being a very happy and outgoing person to being bedridden, unable to work, crying a lot, forgetting everything, having mood swings, having sleep problems, troubles with life itself (literally just getting out of bed is hard due to my left eye lagging 10+ second behind my right eye and thus confusing me as to what is real and not) and so I just don't do much like I used to and I'm on a lot of pills. You might think it's unrealistic but TBI's can really make people different. Him changing as he did felt more realistic because of his brain being hurt. I would have understood him further changing after the accident but...
@@oldladytrexarms his changing started before the accident. He got hit by the truck because he was on the phone with Michelle being all like “I think I love you” which was super out of character at the moment. If it were after, it would’ve been ok with me. I am a psychologist, I totally get that something like that could change not only his perspective in life but also even the way his brain’s chemistry works. On the other hand… hope you do better tho. Wish you all the best!! I got through trauma too that left me a crying ball on bed. It’s really hard and it takes a lot, but you can get over it slowly. ❤️
@@totallywireddd He was pretending to be soft because his friends were starting to get sick of his behaviour and catch on. Textbook machiavellian move to act reformed when you are facing the pawns in your game refusing to play. His abuse then removal of abuse routine was starting to not work on michelle and sid, and so he had to try and add more pull instead of just push and sometimes not push, which worked before because those two had zero self respect and felt lucky to get a connection with Tony.
I didn't like tony in season 1, he came across as a bit of a sociopath. I always felt like he used people like pawns in his private chess game, like sid and michelle, and when he kissed maxie it felt like he was just trying to mess with his head. I felt like his only authentic relationship was with effy who idolised him. I did have more sympathy for him in season 2
Yep, effy gets most of her ways from him
Tony is just such a well written character, I find his redemption arc believable as once he lost everything (his independence, his friends bar Maxxie, his girlfriend, even his ‘smarts’) from the accident he realised howmuch he relied on Sid, Michelle and family etc.
I still think though his two loves in life are Sid as his best friend and Effy, not Michelle.
Honestly after being in an abusive relationship with someone with a personality disorder I can't see the arc so simply. If you're a teenage viewer then fine, but adults should be able to see that season 1 Tony was NOT normal. To me his behaviour smacked of a serious personality disorder and those are extremely hard to change as they're not like normal mental health issues. Everyone does fucked up things now and again but he was at about level 10/10 all day every day.. Funnily enough, him losing everything isn't a believable trigger for a personality change in a disordered person. But a brain injury probably is lol. If a sociopath loses everything they may become vulnerable for a bit because they know that's the best way to get help so they can get back on top. I'd be wary of people as toxic as Tony because without serious psychological intervention they always return to their old selves (again, brain injury is a plausible method though).
Also the moment in the hospital after “saving” effy, where Tony said: “i know i could be a wanker sometimes but people like that. and i like people liking that. I don’t want to be a wanker and effy knows that” to the sid
Ohhh I love Tony's weird trippy episode in S2! Yeah, the girl is Tony's female self. The episode is based on Jungian psychology (they discuss the term "animus" a lot theoughout the episode as well). The different versions of the man show what Tony could potentially be, afaik.
Also that the girl name is Beth.... effys real name is Elizabeth
I really love Tony, and one thing I thought you just barely mentioned in both videos ( no offense they are incredible and made me rewatch this iconic show ) is Tony's apologize to Sid in season one before the accident. He, which is almost unbelievable considering his attitude, flat out addmited how scared he was when he thought Effie was in danger and his only thought of how much he wished Sid were ther by his side and that when Sid finally arrived in the car it was almost a mirscle to him. And in the hospital he told this to Sid and addmited how much needed him and how much he valued his friendship.
And then in early season two when Tony was in his most vulnerable state he constantly asked for Sid's help and Sid's company and was genuinely hurt when Sid wasn't by his side.
I am not defending Sid and Michelle's actions in season two but I do understand them to some degree. Tony was such a driving force in their life that in so many ways dictated their actions and experiences that for them to see such a fragile and defenseless Tony was essentially like losing him they felt absolutely lost, and of course they resorted to the only other person who could understand what they were going through, including the guilt of negelcting Tony when he needed them the most: Each other.
This is all entirely fair. It's worth remembering though that sick manipulative people can be genuinely vulnerable and needy when they're down and out, but once they're back on top they go back to being arseholes. It's also not uncommon for them to be possessive or protective of people close to them, even their top victims, but continue to abuse them even if they "saved" them from something else. It's kind of complicated, but his behaviour in season 1 went well beyond normal shitty teenage behaviour and into the territory of having a serious personality disorder. If so then long term change is much less likely. People do crazy shit, but when it's all concentrated and happens so often you've got to start to wonder if it's not something more serious. I'm not disagreeing btw, I think this is just an FYI to younger readers. Trust your gut. You'll know when it's more than just selfishness.
@@IshtarNike Which is exactly the opposite my comment said...where I mentioned Tony started to recognize his own behaviour and started to amend it by his own volition and not because of his vulnerable state thanks to the accident.
Nicholas Hoult sure had a huge glow up in his teens. He's a far cry from the gangly kid from "About a Boy."
I'm a big fan of this show, especially these first two seasons. I enjoyed listening to your analysis, both here and in the other videos you've made, and you brought up some really valid points I hadn't considered before.
I think you're right about the 'Tony' episode of season 2 - the best way to watch that one is to view it as a dream sequence, or bad trip, as Tony starts to fully process his trauma and return to a healthy state of consciousness after his accident.
Cassie gives him ecstasy, and he has a severe panic attack and vomits. He then meets the girl (Beth) in the bathroom. Sid and Michelle visit him the next day, and he's hiding under the bed because he can't confront them, or his vulnerability. Everything since he took the ecstasy could be part of the dream, or the dream could start from here - it's difficult to draw an exact line, it could be either/or, or a mixture of both, but I don't think Tony gets out from 'under the bed' until the end of the episode. The man on the train is symbolic of his own sense of damage and disfigurement. He tells Tony about his wounds and how he got them, but he also displays an attitude of acceptance in the way he talks and appreciation of life (the egg and cress sandwich). In the dream, Tony's going to the university interview because he's thinking of his future, but he still doesn't fit in well with what's expected of him. The tour guides try to show him around the campus and keep him on the straight and narrow, but he keeps running into Beth and going astray. To look at it from a deeper perspective, I think she could represent his anima, as he's had trouble with his impulses and feelings during his recovery, and she's guiding him back to having a deeper and non-socially dictated sense of himself - fully embodying his animus, or sense of masculine agency and intellect, which he lost after the accident (something like the new and more evolved version of the old Tony, which is what we get after this episode).
She tries to get him to 'walk through the dark' in the laboratory (full of 'fragile' equipment, which he smashes, and a place where 'experiments' happen), and then they escape to the dorm where they encounter the two smokers who have a naturally rebellious attitude. He smokes with them, and they get naked (physically, but also symbolically), and Beth gets a tattoo. Of course, a tattoo is a permanent marking, like the man's wounds on the train. The man said he set himself on fire (which in a way, Tony did by being a sociopath in season one), and Beth's tattoo is of flames. Now, when Tony's 'naked' and at his most vulnerable, she berates him for his weakness, and tries to encourage him to fight through it - problematic I know, but this is still the different sides of Tony's psyche talking to him.
He then goes back to the lecturer (who is perhaps the non-wounded side of the man on the train - his 'healed' and more conventional doppelgänger), and they argue, with the outcome being that Tony realises he doesn't want to end up as some sad, angry old man sat in a room, berating other people because he never had the courage to be himself. He returns to the dorm, has sex with the girl, and his inner-spark returns. Bear in mind the episode opens with Effy reciting the myth of Orpheus and Eurydice - Tony's been through hell now, and he's reclaimed his spirit. The girl tells him not to look back (just as Orpheus is told in the myth), and Tony returns from the underworld (from hiding 'under the bed', now outside of the dream) to confront Sid and Michelle in a way that is reminiscent of his old season one self, but also less dysfunctional and showing more wisdom in the way he deals with the situation. There's no games here, he just tries to communicate what he sees as the truth. At the end of the episode, we see Tony has the tattoo (not literal, though it's depicted as such), which he gained by fusing the two parts of his personality, accepting his wounds, and reclaiming his fire (individuality) despite his setbacks. Now he knows who he is, and he's wearing his marks proudly.
Phew! Sorry for the long post, I just thought it would be fun to lay this all out after watching this video. I'm a writer myself, so I do like to think about these things. It's a weird episode for sure, but also one of the most interesting to me in the first generation. It was a good way to display the inner-workings of Tony's trauma and recovery, without just having him suddenly acting fine. I don't think there's any other way they could have done it within the space of the ten episodes which would have done his character arc justice. I hope my interpretation above gives yourself and anyone else who reads it a deeper appreciation for this episode. :)
Great read, thank you !
I really liked Michelle. I think the reason she got so attached to Sid, was because she based a lot of her self worth off of boy's attraction and interest in her.
She may feel her only worth is in her looks - Tony's nickname for her was literally Nips. This isn't to defend what Michelle did, although I don't think she was under the impression that her and Tony's relationship was going to continue. And since she wasn't getting the male attention and validation she needed, she latched onto Sid.
Sid sleeping with Michelle was a crush fulfilled. Even if it was from a place of vulnerability since his dad died and he wrongly assumed Cassie was cheating on him in Scotland. Because of Tony's loss of sexual confidence, Michelle assumed it was over between them so getting with Sid was no surprise. She even told Sid he was a better lover than Tony which says that the latter of old was selfish in the bedroom and only cared for his own pleasure.
And since we're speaking of Michelle's self worth being defined by male attention, here's another factor. Not only had Michelle grown up watching her mother caught in a constant pattern of marriage and divorce but she also grew up with no father or father figure in her life.
Amazing video, as always! I fell in love with Tony's character the moment he appeared on camera. He's as fascinating as Alison DiLaurentis if you think about it. I totally agree that his parents' aggressiveness could have had a lot to do with his manipulative tendencies. It's not uncommon for people who grew up in dysfunctional households to then romanticise or copy that same behaviour because that's what's most familiar (= "normal") to them. He literally grew up to love conflict and playing with people's emotions, he saw no problem whatsoever with that. It was a hell of a ride and I also wondered if the accident was all there was to his character development, but I agree that he showed positive signs before. If anything, it would be really interesting to see how he would have changed without having an accident. Like how much would he change? Would it last long? Maybe emotionally impactful things and therapy could lead to a healthier, nicer Tony who still had his edge and his skills intact? I guess we will never know, but I agree that when it comes to folks like him or Alison they've crossed too many moral lines and maybe it wouldn't be realistic or such an abrupt/perfectly ideal, smooth journey if they completely changed.
As for his relationship with Michelle, that really hits a spot bc I grew up dealing with unhealthy attachments to guys/friends who treated me poorly. So on the one hand, I can't help but to love toxicity in fictional relationships bc it scratches that itch, but on the other I'm aware that as a society we shouldn't send the wrong message, particularly to vulnerable people such as the target audience
(probably teens who were dealing with their own issues.) Btw I thought they were back together in the end! I think there's even a dinner scene where they tell Cassie, idk.
But anyways, our own personal experiences and baggage influence how we consume media and how we process what we see, not only culture/society at large (of course that also plays a huge role.) I mean to say that the craze over enemies-to-lovers stories and "bad boys" who are actually abusive is probably more layered and multi-causal than it appears at first sight. Exploring the psychological theories about it is always interesting.
Thanks for giving this a read if you do. I love everything about your videos, especially your ability to dissect characters and their possible psychological backgrounds. Lots of love!! ❤❤❤
They do wind up together but then decide to go their own separate ways in the end, talking in the car before going off to college (and before Sid runs off after Cassie) about how "they were really good together, huh? really special..." or something along those lines and he kinda agrees. It's a bittersweet but good ending.
I hope you discuss season 7 of skins as whole video in terms of its place in the show and the choices it makes with Effy, Cook and Cassie's characters and storylines. Keep up the great work
Me to 🥰
I thought tony was a total dick but a great character. He was very clever and his father was a man child which he had no respect for. He only respected effy because she was immune to his manipulation .Tony enjoyed testing the limits of how far he could push and play games with people. He was the ultimate toxic friend boyfriend.Michelle was a wet lettuce in the beginning with regards to tony but this was her first relationship.I think the show did a good job of teen’s trying to work their way through relationships in a world of dysfunctional parenting and adults around them.
17:02 For those wondering about the weird episode, it was a dream that Tony had when he fall asleep while Effy was telling a story. The man was his future as a looser if he didn't fixed his life, the girl was his past and was there to remember him how competent he was.
Also, I didn't discuss this much in the video- but do you think Tony being a teenager at all affects your perception of him? I tend to root more for younger characters and teenagers because they still have the potential to mature and "grow up". Or in your mind, would he still be unforgivable for things he did in his past, regardless of his age
I think so tbh and I didn't think he was a lost cause.
Totally. It doesn't excuse what he's done, but like another comment said it feels unfair to consider him a hopeless cause because he's still a child in many ways. I really liked you how pointed out that his parents emotional neglect has affected him. They continued to fail him in order of guidance but also failed to hold him accountable to how he harmed others. He's not properly an adult yet and just like on a playground the parents take charge to apply accountability, they should be active enough in his life to know these things and address them
I think some things like abusing Michelle shouldn't be dismissed as just "immaturity." Violent or manipulative tendencies are good indicators of serious issues and that the person is either unstable or dangerous/unreliable. Maybe the less serious things like some mind games and schemes could be explained as him being an asshole teenager who thought messing with others was fun, but again that's quite an antisocial conduct. The most typically adolescent things he did were partying around, drinking, being wild, etc.
i love Tony, but i always found his character arc very extreme. Not necessarily unbelievable, but it's just hard to wrap my head around the idea of sociopath tony and sweet tony being the same human lmao
Serena, I love your character analysis vids! Skins was such a good show, and imo Tony was the best character in it.
I totally agree!
I dont think Michelle's reaction to Tony (after the accident, when intimate) was that... evil.
If I had been in a relationship with a manipulative, emotionally abusive, serial cheating, all about sex bf, and then all of the sudden have him be a stark contrast to who i had known him to be as a person would be so confusing!!!! When she was trying to be intimate with Tony again, I could understand why she would break down, shut down and run away.
She was so use to hearing him backhand insult/compliment her body, play mind/sex games with her to control, or gain power in the relationship (homage to his psych paper).... to then abruptly have him be vulnerable, honest and unable (even when he was trying) would probably be such a mind fuck as it is happening. I dont think she was upset about the sex, I think she was just in shock by how much the accident changed him. I think she was scared because she isn't use to Tony behaving like that, and was so use to him being "all about sex", so it freaked her out.
I think it would feel like derealization, like what you are going through isnt real.
Getting together with Sid, yes that was.. evil. I could understand finding comfort in Sid, who is also close with Tony, but to sleep with him when you know he has lusted over you forever and "loved him like a brother" is messed up...
and also the fact that Cassie is your 'friend', but you didnt consider how she might feel? Regardless of what Sid assumed about Cassie (cheating), I still wouldnt pursue a close friends' ex. Or my vulnerable ex's best friend...
You know how Sid's grandad, uncle and cousins all have variations of the name "Alexander"? But his dad, Mark, doesn't because he's the 'family disappointment'. Wonder if Tony's mom "Anthea" naming her son "Anthony" is for similar reasons?
Such a good character
admittedly, I haven't seen season 2 in a while, but I remember hating him and being mad that he got redeemed after all the horrible things he did lol
You were correct. Honestly after being in an abusive relationship with someone with a personality disorder I 100% cannot deal with people who so easily forgive this shit. If you're a teenage viewer then fine, but adults should be able to see that season 1 Tony was NOT normal. To me his behaviour smacked of a serious personality disorder and those are extremely hard to change as they're not like normal mental health issues. Funnily enough, him losing everything isn't a believable trigger for a personality change in a disordered person. But a brain injury probably is lol.
Late reply but totally agree, it always felt like a cop out because they had written him to be someone with irredeemable qualities and realised they’d gone too far, so they had to find a way to reset his character. It would’ve been better if he received consequences for his actions in a different way. That’s something that’s always bothered me about season 2.
I think Michelle is really badly judged but it’s also due to unfair writing imo.
Happy Halloween to you too, girl! ❤ I love hearing your opinion on the topics, but I love your voice too. I could listen for hours ~. And I understand that most teenagers are mean. They don't know all the consequences of their actions, and most of them say things and do things that are mean more often than they believe. Even the good kids sometimes. But that is because they are growing, they are learning through the adults in their lives, and they are still learning what pain is, and how much things can hurt. So, I tend to believe that teens can change somehow. Tony has one of the best storylines on a teen show and is still one of my favorite characters
effy analysis ?😞🙏 like how she is in gen 1 vs. gen 2 and how her character was btoh idolized and misjudged 🙏
its coming!
I need to rewatch skins. I wayched it when it first aired and i thought i remembered what happened, but i have no memory of half the stuff that happened to Tony watching this 😂
Despite my other comments. Tony being incredibly fucked up is well written and explained well by their fucked up home life. People assume only downright beatings or sexual abuse are what fucks people up hard. But you can definitely a person as fucked up as Tony from a seemingly "medium" fucked up family like that. Anyway I'm glad you pointed out that his behaviour went well beyond normal shitty male behaviour. Being a cheater is very different to cheating on purpose tland trying to get found out multiple times just for fun.
(It looks worse nowadays but in the 2000s people would barely bat an eye at their dads behaviour, he'd just be eccentric and no one would question the long term effects on the kids, i know because my dad is kinda like that too lol😅).
Would you say the parental neglect of the Stonem Siblings is partly to blame for they're so damaged?
@@Senate300 Definitely. Effy even says so in the 2nd season that they're so neglectful and ignore her and Tony and her best friend, Panda, even says "they don't mean to f*ck you up, Ef, but they do it" in regards to the parents just arguing and yelling at each other and stuff and definitely not caring as much for the kids. The Tony incident strains the parent's relationship which leads to marital problems and further neglect, so most definitely it is partly to blame.
Love your channel!
Tony Stonem was my favourite character of the 1st generation and for 2 seasons straight he had the best solo episodes.
When you take away all the mythology surrounding Tony's sociopathy, one would simply see a local golden boy who's ennui of everyone and everything that came so easily to him resulting in him taking it all for granted and the need to create chaos for his own entertainment at the expense of those closes to him became his undoing. The most we saw Tony do in terms of psychological bullying was flaunt his affairs in front of his girlfriend(Michelle) then dangle her in front of his best friend(Sid) like fish bait, fully aware of his obsession with her. In Josh Stock who he framed for incest in his attempt to regain possession of Michelle, he got the opponent he deserved and left his beloved sister fairgame to be targeted in retaliation. Especially since Josh was 5 times more cunning, calculated and ruthless with an axe to grind.
Tony's journey after being hit by a bus was most impressive. From having to overcome his trauma, learn to read and write, regain his sexual confidence and rediscover the value of his friendships which he previously took for granted. But by the time he rediscovered his appreciation for Michelle it was too little too late since both were parting ways in the higher education department.
The University Open Day represented his state of mind after the bus accident. Be it the two friends made for each other but are afraid to make that leap. Be it the disfigured man who held the mirror to his own mental disfigurement that left him stunted. Be it the arrogant lecturer who he would've became if he didn't humble himself and grow out of the arsehole phase. Or the mystery girl who was his anima and the female counterpart of his old self. After sex with her his healing was complete.
Sidenotes: Since Michelle finished with Tony for good and took their whole crew with her, it would've been great to see how Tony cope with that and not in control anymore and Michelle coming into her own power. I believe his actions would become more reckless, impulsive, anger driven and violent. Had it not been for Effy's kidnapping of course.
His journey after getting hit by the bus always made me like him a lot more as someone who has both been disabled since birth but has also been made way worse due to underlying hEDS making me super clumsy and causing me to get hurt; falling back in 2016 and causing myself to gain a TBI from a concussion which I had no clue I had (therefore got no medical treatment despite passing out and dealing with visual distortions) until nowadays where it's been discovered my left eye lags 10+ seconds behind my right so I am confused and my skull thickened making me head hurt and further wrecking my mental state. It's been a tough journey of trying to recover from everything and just live, so seeing him go through his journey was both tough but cathartic and made me really like his character a lot more after that.
It takes getting hit by by a bus to become a good person.🙃
The Regina George way!
Dark triad personalities only hope is a traumatic brain injury, then again it's usually others who benefit from that, dark triad can be extremely adaptive in certain environments
Always loved Tony
me too
Wonderful analysis, Tony is a very interesting person, and thinking about gen 1 I always remember him at first
Please do a video on cook he was my favourite character
I cant not love you! 🥺🥺🥺 Covering from Desperate Housewives to Skins... Thats such a treat for usss! ❤️
i love what i do! 💖💖
i look up to this guy
what was that one episode after his accident where this female version of him was trying to bring him back to his sociopathic self?
season 2 ep 6
I agree with your interpretation of the burnt man being somehow a product of Tony's imagination or a depiction of how human interactions feel for Tony. He experiences rejection and betrayal, partly because of what the accident did to him and the longing for someone who understands you and treats you as an equal is probably immense. The fact that the same face later shows up to bully him might also be a symbol of his two closest friends both cheating on him even tho they assure him before that they support him, like Sid telling him Tony should still pursue Michelle etc. So people who he thinks he can trust are actually not trustworthy but instead, cruel to him.
It's literally a two-faced person haha.
I believe the lecturer represents what would've become if he got older and never grew out of his arsehole attitude. Remember when Tony said to him "I'm you before you shriveled and died. And I don't wanna go where you've been".
i dont think there was a redemption arc and tony never really turned soft, he went through consequences of his actions and learned a few things but i feel like this is giving him too much credit for basic decency (as its usually done for male characters while females with the same type of writing get the harsh criticism forever)
Yes I love him
I thought Tony was so cool until the maxxie thing happened. Lost a lot of respect for my boy then
Tony clearly had a personality disorder in season 1,its so obvious and I see almost nobody talking abt it
Ohhh this is sooo bad, you are telling me that you didn’t understand which for me is the best chapter in the whole series’s? (The campus visit) it’s one of my favourite episodes ever, cause it shows you a person very broken inside, that for some trauma (the accident) it’s not himself anymore, he finds himself as this broken version of his past self. And his unconscious gets him into this journey of rediscovering of the self and understanding that the blockage that he has it’s just in his head in his perception, cause he has already overcome the physical scars that the accident gave to him. It’s a very very inspiring episode. When he conquers back his identity and confidence. Loved it
I shipped him with maxxie so much
Miss me with that gay sh*t
Absolute Best Teen Series Of All Time
i feel like michelle did get more out of the relationship than just sex but that she felt like that was what he cared about and if he couldn’t do that anymore then he didn’t actually love her
hi serena,have you ever watched the vampire diaries
Some of it! I’ve got a big surprise coming soon related to this
yes i have known someone like Tony, but she did not get hit by a bus and change (god forbid)
Tony is my BABYYYYYY!
I think Michelle was very shitty in s2 but as a 17 year old , we can cut her some slack. She always based her self worth on being “shaggable” if that’s even a word, I think she uses it in one episode to describe himself, but she does love Tony I feel because we see her pining for him.
Could you do video about how people treated JJ in season 3 and 4? Like was freddie or cook better friend
I love Skins but the change is too unbelievable and that ruins it for me. I would’ve gone with a change after the accident. It’s cliché but it can be a more believable scenario.
You've never dealt with a TBI, then. As someone suffering from a longtime TBI (one that slowly presented itself, but I didn't know til 6 years later and by then it was too late to reverse the damage) I can tell you that it changes you and can do so in very dramatic and unrealistic ways. I fell back in 2016 and broke my nose, which also caused a concussion and some form of unknown TBI (no one took me seriously despite me passing out because my "broken nose" was simply breaking the cartilage from the bone and deviating my septum) later they discovered that my sinuses on the left side completely clogged up with mucus and couldn't be unblocked and I was lacking oxygen to my brain because of it and my skull thickened on the whole left side of my face. I began getting double vision, visual distortions, halo effects in my eye (essentially seeing "the Matrix" as everyone jokes), etc. on top of dizziness, brain fog, sleep disturbances/insomnia, facial pain, head pounding, numbness in the face, eye dryness/drooping/pain, and huge changes to my mental illnesses (ADD, FND, Anxiety, PTSD, Disassociation, and Depression). I went from being super active and able to work and live a fulfilled life and being a very happy and outgoing person to being bedridden, unable to work, crying a lot, forgetting everything, having mood swings, having sleep problems, troubles with life itself (literally just getting out of bed is hard due to my left eye lagging 10+ second behind my right eye and thus confusing me as to what is real and not) and so I just don't do much like I used to and I'm on a lot of pills. You might think it's unrealistic but TBI's can really make people different. Him changing as he did felt more realistic because of his brain being hurt. I would have understood him further changing after the accident but...
@@oldladytrexarms his changing started before the accident. He got hit by the truck because he was on the phone with Michelle being all like “I think I love you” which was super out of character at the moment. If it were after, it would’ve been ok with me. I am a psychologist, I totally get that something like that could change not only his perspective in life but also even the way his brain’s chemistry works.
On the other hand… hope you do better tho. Wish you all the best!! I got through trauma too that left me a crying ball on bed. It’s really hard and it takes a lot, but you can get over it slowly. ❤️
@@totallywireddd He was pretending to be soft because his friends were starting to get sick of his behaviour and catch on. Textbook machiavellian move to act reformed when you are facing the pawns in your game refusing to play. His abuse then removal of abuse routine was starting to not work on michelle and sid, and so he had to try and add more pull instead of just push and sometimes not push, which worked before because those two had zero self respect and felt lucky to get a connection with Tony.
I think Tony is Not a softboy...He's a Alpha Male.
The best character you
hii