Military Sabre Cutting Exercise - According to John Musgrave Waite 1880
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- Опубликовано: 13 окт 2024
- A little sabre cutting advice and exercise, according John Musgrave Waite's system. Generally interesting advice for all sword fighting, which I hope might be interesting to people practicing other historical fencing systems.
Extra videos on Patreon: / scholagladiatoria
"I realise a lot of you don't have a stick"
These truly are hard times.
"It is going to be a _non contact_ drill."
Schola Gladiatoria all about social responsibility.
And social distancing.
I did a little research on why the British refer to their yards as "gardens", and learned some interesting things. Not only do they call them gardens, but apparently they even consider "yard" to be an insult! And for all the Americans wondering how on Earth they would talk about separate gardens within their yards(as many Americans also have a garden or two within our yards)... Well, they use the word "patch". So instead of saying "come out to the yard so I can show you the garden", the British will say "come out to the garden so I can show you the vegetable patch". It seems that "patch" needs to be preceded by some modifier such as "vegetable-", "flower-", "strawberry-", etc. Although if I'm wrong on that, I will be happily corrected.
A 'patch' is literally just a piece of anything. It could be part of a garden or it could be a repair 'patch' to an article of clothing - or anything. Unless you say what it's a patch of, it means nothing to us.
A 'yard' is an area of hard standing, concrete or asphalt, often attached to poorer homes as a work/play area if there isn't space for a proper garden or sometimes as a utility area for houses that do have a garden.
@@qwadratix A yard without a qualifier is 0.9144m :D
Verruca both ‘yard’ and ‘garden’ actually derive from the same Anglo-Saxon word, interestingly enough (geard). But yes today yard in uk means any general use space between buildings, usually hard surfaced, often prefixed with a context - courtyard, farmyard etc.
@@skmo7072,
I'll be _that_ guy...
“it is from Middle English gardin, from Anglo-French gardin, jardin, of Germanic origin; akin to Old High German gard, gart, an enclosure or compound, as in *Stuttgart* .”
To most Americans the word garden connotes a very specific thing. Gardens take hard work and special skills to maintain, and not everybody has one, whereas nearly everyone in a permanent home has a yard. You sort of have the inverse of "yard" being an insult in the UK. If you were to call my yard a "garden", I would say thank you, but I would say that you're giving me too much credit, as I haven't done the work! It's only grass and bushes!😃 However, I also understand that the British take great pride in maintaining their yards. So perhaps, on average, Americans might view British people's yards as more garden-like than our own. But I can also say that there are plenty of Americans who take the upmost pride in their yards, landscaping and planting beautiful gardens within them.
Awesome timing I just got a saber in the mail this morning I'll be practicing this all weekend
There’s something quite mesmerizing about watching a sword cut through the air, something about the motion blur and trail that is interesting to watch
Nearly anything done well is a delight to a person of wisdom and discernment.
A well made blade stands out to a master, a mason can see the beauty of a yurt well built. All is relevant.
and the "swoosh"
The French actually came to the same conclusion as Waite around the same time, because while French stick fighting and mid 19th century French saber use mollinets, classical French saber fencing uses only thrusts and direct cuts. Interestingly, the Italians also moved in a similar direction in the same period. Giuseppe Radaelli the founder of the Milanese School of saber fencing (as opposed to Masaniello Parise his mortal enemy and head of the Neapolitan School) said that you should do mollineli from the elbow whenever you cut, that you should lean the body on the lunge, and that the hand should be at the height of the chin. However, Luigi Barabsetti, Radaelli's disciple and the number two man in Milanese fencing, toned the system's eccentricity down a bit and said that you should not do mollineli when reposting, that you should not lean the body, and that the hand should be slightly below the height of the shoulder.
Which do you think is the most effective method? Or are we comparing apples with bananas as the different schools used differently weighted sabres?
@@BetterExplanation I haven't trained in saber personally, but my instructor who has done both French and Italian saber says that each system works, but the Italian is better. Incidentally, both direct cuts and elbow-mollineli work fine with heavier or lighter weapons, although heavy sabres can be a tiring to use if you are doing wrist-cuts.
Rondelle is one of the more common classical French sabre sources. In his book grammar of fencing he includes moulinets as does the 1877 war ministry manual. What sources are you referring to?
I have not seen any that advocate direct cuts and no moulinets like Waite does.
What do you reckon the odds are that's a Superdry shirt under that fencing coat?
I wonder what Sir Matthew of Easton's Heraldry is at the lists? Super-Dry Rampant on a Field of Context?
@@euansmith3699 oh thou wit be ever sharper than a razor.
Nah, my money's on the fencing jacket being made by superdry and hence is a branded jacket
99% actually. I remember that he had a pink Superdry shirt (I love pink, so it stands out to me), and you can see one underneath that coat. BECAUSE OF YOUR FREAKING COMMENT I had to go back and check and he, in fact, has one, and it seems to be the same one as in _Antique Swords at Kempton Park
_ video.
Yeah, I don't have anything better to do, it's half past 11PM and I'm bored with the quarantine...
I love that rushing wind in the background along with the great martial arts being presented. Real peaceful and educational. Great video!
I wonder if you have ever heard of, or read, General George Patton's Saber Manual? It was written about 1913 after he studied in France as a young Lieutenant. I'm curious what your take on it would be as a modern practitioner since I understand it's somewhat unconventional.
Hello Schola Gladiatoria, Xanador1, and all... Here is the reference - www.pattonhq.com/pdffiles/saberexercise.pdf
Given the fact this channel is called "fencing school" there is a surprising lack of videos that teach fencing. Good one Matt!
Unfortunately, all of his fencing lessons are in Latin, so You Tube blocks them as subversive dark web stuff...
u wot m8
He does run a fencing school, but you have to go to his locations and pay for it I think
This is the thing we need! Noboody expects to properly learn fencing through youtube but it makes people interested so they go to a school once they have access to one.
Matt is quite clever. He's bored because he can't teach his fencing classes, he's exhausted due to the new arrival, and he needs content because he's doing daily upload: solution turn RUclips into a fencing class.
i think he should continue to create these fencing videos nowadays
You have to take a drink every time Matt says, "OK."
Ok, but first I'm going to need some context, and to penetrate the mystery of what kind of drink.
I Am a rapier/side-swords kinda guy, now your getting me excited about saber cutting drills.
Nice! Greetings from an Italian-style Sabreur from California. Lunge-cuts are big in the barbasetti/gaugler descended schools.
Just an outstanding video! More like this would be greatly appreciated.
Great video. I new to saber and have no club to study with so these are very helpful for me. Keep up the good work. Cheers from the states.
Very well shown and explained. Thanks for that.
Our Blade Masters require this type of education. Thank you for your knowledge and skill. #BladeMasterGreg
I am liking the fencing lessons. I would be very interested in Victorian single stick demonstrations. I am developing some knee problems, and I see a walking stick in my future...
Another Schola video watched en garde. I really like that lunging cut with just the wrist rotation and lunge for my nylon basket-hilted broad/backsword. Surprisingly easy and powerful! Need to get a real one. I can do it with machetes and my arming sword, but I can feel that it's just not the same lol. Sound historical and martial information (to the best of my knowledge), as always
Yes, I'll stick to Waite's safer circles. Great video, Great "Wist" sound from the strikes over the microphone.
I don't have a saber or other sword, but like many of us here in Chiapas, México, I do have a good machete. I'll see how I do with these exercises. At worst, it will relieve the boredom of isolation.
Awesome video good sir! Please make more like this!
Interesting.. Would love some more videos on Waite system
Very interesting, thank you, Matt
Love it! Thank you Matt!
Cool vid, we have amazingly similar builds so it is really easy to understand to what you were showing here.
Thank you Matt!
I love being a cosplayer. Finally I can practice something more than what was in your _Military sabre solo drill - Historical fencing / HEMA
_ video from almost 5 years ago with the hanger (that looks more like 17th centaury Polish-Hungarian Hussars Sabre) I made from aluminium.
I think I know what I'm doing tomorrow. I guess I also need to finally finish it with a proper handle. The stuff that's in my video of making it was supposed to be only temporary, since I was short on time, but it's still without a proper grip, haha.
Ooh. More drills please!
Well I'm late to the party- that is YT for you- good video Matt!
Thanks for sharing! Aside from the high second starting position this way of doing feints and cuts is exactly the same in modern saber. Feint inside to chest or cheek, cutover to flank or outside cheek. Always forward. Does Waite's system ever have us doing the the change of line by moulinet after the feint?
The thumbnail for this video is really cool.
I love these fencing lessons
Do you have any videos on muscle training exercises for building the endurance to be able to do saber/one-handed sword?
In his "HEMA training tips" you'd find a few that I often use myself.
First, you have quite a recent one: "An Indian Club Excercise for Sword Fighting
" which is roughly the same as a video from a year ago - "Indian Clubs And Sword Exercise"
And then you have my favourites, that I try to practice as often as I can (if I remember about that) ever since they came out:
Military sabre solo drill - Historical fencing / HEMA
Military sabre footwork for beginners - HEMA / Historical Fencing
Attacking in military sabre fencing. Part 1.
Solo training advice 1: one-handed swords
More solo training for the one-handed sword
Some more beginner solo training for one-handed swords
Those mention basically similar thing (front and back movement, side to side movement, cuts 1, 2, 3 and 4 done from wrist, elbow and arm in different configurations) and some are not just exercise for endurance, but actual drills, but training them allows you to train correct muscles. Also - it's worth to train with both arms, not just your dominant one
Good video, I'm going to try and adapt it to my jian practice! 👍😁
I only have a cold steel heavy Cav saber ti practice with,Am I doing my self a disservice???? Much respect to you Mr.Easton!
Lovely! Please do more JMW videos!
Pls do a vid on what large-scale japanese battles were like, given that they didn't use shields. No shield walls, with large formations, sounds very cool, but idk
The Japanese did use shields extensively, they just applied their shields differently than Europe did. Most of their shields were a pavise style shield, and the large pauldrons on samurai armor act as shields when on horseback shooting a bow. By the time they did start to commit to larger pike formations for their ashigaru firearms were already common enough that hand held shields were no longer as effective
You need to ask Metatron this question Japanese stuff is his area
Lovely jacket. Where did u find that gem? I've got some scaffolding to train against. I've acquired a pull up bar and a Pell to practice swordstrikes since the builders left
Thanks, it is the SPES Officer jacket.
Thank you for another great video! Could you recommend the optimum technique for the lunge? Is it better to do a simple step forward or to do a slight "kick" with the front leg during the lunge (like in the modern sport fencing)? I hope this is not too much off-topic here.
Thanks for the vid sir.
Very useful, especially the avoidance of hand cuts. Am I correct in assuming you'd see this cutting style as just one option, rather than as a total approach?
What is the saber you are using in this video, Matt?
kastimizillion would also like to know, it’s v nice. love the hand guard
Good question... I wanna buy a saber too
I am also interested
Thank you
will have to experiment with these techniques because with an arthritic thumb and trigger finger hand malady will need to modify your movements
I'll dig out a sabre and get at it!
Would you mind explaining to a non-fencer how moving the hand forwards in the feint helps against an opponents countermeasures? I can see how not moving the hand backwards before giving the first cut demonstrated would help in not giving your intentions away, but I have no real sense of how the feint works in practice, having never fenced.
When you move your hand back, you move it off your centerline and leave your body unprotected from your opponent's attack.
At about 7:36 he demonstrates while facing the camera- it's easiest to see there. Notice that it looks like he's about to follow through with the lunge but instead repositions the sword and then follows through. Just before he repositions the sword is when you would set up your defense or try for a wrist cut and he would go right past it.
Very Fabrisian, he spends a whole page or two saying everything else is rubbish but cutting with just the wrist. Nice to see the same principle in sabre.
Matt,do you think a backsword can be used with the same technique of a saber?
Yes basically.
@@scholagladiatoria thank you.
Since it seems you have already talked about it, there are some cases of dual wielding swords that may interest you. You may know already the Niten Ichi Ryu school of kenjutsu, and the Book of Five Rings,by Musashi. You can find it for free .Their take on dual wield is pretty interesting,and is born from the idea of being able to use a long sword one handed with both hands,the usage of one longer and shorter is simply a byproduct of the fact bushi usually carried the daisho.
Another more unknown case is the korean ssangeom, twin shorter swords,sometimes even on horseback! It seemed to be more common that in the west.
Great stuff
Good video very informative.
Is that one of the Easton sabres? Looks great
please make more videos like this! great stuff!
Hi. How do you think losing an eye would affect your abilities with a sword? Would you switch to a longer weapon? Maybe try to switch hands if needed, so you'd be able to see the weapon at your side?
Loosing an eye would give you quite a big blind spot on the side of the lost eye. You can check that by simply closing one eye and moving your fist around. I think that it would be best to use the sword on the same side as the lost eye (right eye lost - use weapon in right hand), since then the weapon usually "automatically" closes an opening on the vulnerable side.
Then you'd be limited in your depth of field, having to rely on secondary indicators, like parallax and perspective, so my guess is that thrusting weapons would be tougher to deal with and use.
The main problem with losing an eye is not only not being able to see to one side very well, it is the fact that you can't really tell distances with only one eye. Humans need both eyes in order to have proper depth perception. Try walking around with an eye patch for a day, you'll notice that you will have some difficulty judging just how far away something actually is.
That turns into a serious problem with fencing. If you can't judge the distance properly, chances are you are going to make a mistake your opponent will punish you for. In that case, I can speak from experience as, even with both eyes working, distances have been one of my problem areas in fencing and I've opened myself up for counters on more than one occasion as a result because I swung too short. I don't think switching to a longer weapon would really solve that problem, either... you might be able to compensate for some of it with enough experience, I've never tested that.
But at any rate, losing an eye would absolutely negatively impact your fencing abilities.
@Scholagladiatoria What system do you teach for saber. Just curious.
I think that a sabre blow doesn't have to be powerfull, in fact n sword blow needs to be it, since the sharp edge makes most of the injuring , and with good edge alignment and body weight, you wil cause the desired effect.
To paraphrase Musashi: don't aim to hit hard, aim to cut.
Have you ever thought about starting your own company that makes period accurate military sabers for a modern market?
Might be a bit off topic, how relevant might sabre and or grössemesser techniques be to the modern age in terms of machetes and such? Additionally hammers of various kinds & other improvised objects?
It may seem extreme, but while little else is operating my job(long distance Semi Truck driver)is going full tilt, and in some areas there is cause for the wearing of body armor (custom fit plates with a british plate carrier(thanks!)).
This is the way my russian fencing coach taught me to cut with the sport sabre back in the eighties. The cut was delivered with a squeeze of the fingers from a relaxed grip. Very quick repostes & feints using this method. How does the extra weight of a gymnasium sabre affect this technique?
Which do you think is better ? Wrist ,or elbow when cutting ,and why is that.
For some reasons I cannot seem to keep my elbow tucked in or stationary and naturally want to use more elbow ..
Wouldnt a cut from the elbow command more power ?
Are there strategic or bio mechanical reasons given in European texts for landing the cut and the front foot at the same time?
Well, if you strike after you put the foot down you're lingering in your opponents reach without threatening him, if you strike before your foot lands you're reducing your reach.
At 10:15 you went so far as to add text apologizing for that forward body lean you warned against in the Waite system. Not criticizing, but did you acquire that through a lot of Italian-style practice? Is it muscle memory or is it just instinct that's very difficult to train out of?
It's bad form on my part.
Are these treatises all about fencing? i.e. one to one as opposed to a military reality of some sort of melee where opponents could be anywhere around you and come and go by chance. Cavalry training emphasis the withdrawal of the sword from the engaged opponent as you move on to engage another. In reality it all reduces to a melee and instinct cuts in (pun intended) and the trooper hacks about to keep the nasty people away from him rather than engaging to win. Naval cutlass drill recognises this but seeks to establish a small but comprehensive repertoire of hacking cuts rather than leaving it up to them to wave around an oversized knife.
I'm sorry for a dumb question,just pure curious.I'm not a saber fencer and only familliar with 2 handed swords like longsword, kriegmesser,japanese swords,daos...... From what i saw on youtube and Matt's instruction videos,it seems most saber practitioners generate power the cut from the push of rear leg and the combination of elbow and wrist.So what about your hip and lower body ? I know the principle is not the same but just curious would you even use your hip as the core energy to apply body mass on to the sword cut like how you use 2 handed sword or the method here is different ?
The primary power comes from the lunge and the rotation of the sword. However, yes in some cases the hips can be twisted to add more power, but the problem is that with a right foot lead system of lunge and recover, if you square the hips up then it makes you are wider target and also takes more time. The time when it most often happens/is possible, is in a riposte - after a parry where you make yourself a little more square anyway, then you can 'unload' that twist from the hips with the lunge at the same time.
if i just listen to this it's like listening to my teacher, for kendo....
How accurate are the sabre fencing scenes in the TV series North and South?
Wow I haven't heard of that show since I was about 10 years old - sorry I cannot remember the fights!
@@scholagladiatoria here's a link to the clip of the bully with the sabre and Patrick Swayze the hero steps in and shows everyone how to wield one correctly.
ruclips.net/video/PlvBfe87n60/видео.html
@@scholagladiatoria should clarify I meant the American mini series not the UK series not sure they had sabre play in that either
do you think you could do a similar video for longsword?
Nice to see you doing well matt, i recently decided to possibly invest in a 1640-1650 english cavalry sword, would it be worth me sending you an email on your site?
what about closing on your opponent and taking a leg out on him, once he's down he's helpless?
What is the make an model of that practice sabre?
Haven’t seen that sword before is it new ?
No, very old. Pre-1883 ;-) It's a custom piece by Weyersberg for a Bavarian officer, with pattern welded blade and schalger-style grip.
@@scholagladiatoria ok, when I win the lottery, I know what's going on my first shopping list.
scholagladiatoria it’s in beautiful condition looks like it just came from the shop.
I have a light kriegsmesser that can be used on one hand,like a heavier sabre or a bastard sword,could this technique be used with it?
I've noticed that instead of pulling my arm back to chamber the cut/thrust, lunging to move my body forward, and then extending my arm to make the attack, I tend to keep my arm in place and lunge my body forward into it to chamber the attack, and then extend my arm to strike at the end of the lunge. I'm curious if there are any thoughts on that kind of motion, if it's taught anywhere historically, or if there are any clear benefits or problems with it.
Yeah, the problem is that it will lead to doubles or stop-hits, because you're moving the body into the opponent's hitting distance without presenting the weapon forward first. Chambering like this is absolutely the way to hit hard, but not the way to hit first, and sharp weapons being what they are, it's better to hit first and preferably to be the only one that hits therefore.
@@scholagladiatoria So presumably something like this is where the idea of 'preparation', whereby an attacker loses their right-of-way, comes from in modern olympic sabre?
Can you do one for raipers?
At the end of the day...it doesn't have to be the most powerful attack if it connects and with proper edge alignment.
6:51 holy shit that sound. Did you just cut a gash in reality?
What method or school of saber was preferred for actual battle (not duel)?
What is shown here. There are small differences between different British sabre manuals, but they were all relatively similar and used all over the British Empire between the Napoleonic Wars and WW1 in numerous conflicts.
Lucky to have a stick... Someone is not too hard to please.
Great video, relates to the question and video I sent to your email. Let me know if you were able to identify it, please? Thank you Sir.
You know having a game of thrones fantasy is fun but our future will look more like the movie, 'the grapes of wrath'.
Third. Touché! Slice that virus up Sword Master Easton!
Third!
what a nice jacket
Aren’t you standing unrealistically too close to the target?
Lunge distance is lunge distance... If you can't hit the target with a lunge then you are too far away. You can't magically extend the sword length ;-)
scholagladiatoria That’s very true. However, should the target also have a hand and a saber in it you’d probably want to stay out of reach. Unless the attacks you’re demonstrating target opponent’s wrist. I’d really want to see a demonstration with two people.
Doesn’t have a stick but, has a saber...
You better grab Toto and head for the cellar. It looks like a twister.
There is a real shortage of sticks these days. :D
2.10 Fighting against Polish sabre expert you have just lost your arm.
Second
Second!
Oh hell yea big boy, give me that heart.
I have a stick!
you are fast matt. when you are really trying to be fast you give some fast lunges. thats good for sparring tournament.
Please lower the camera
If theres a human in this world that doesn't have access to a stick there doing it wrong.
Needs a moustache and a hat.
Can;t quite work out why he is cutting into a perfectly good sabre.
The sound is kinda odd in this video?
Jeans? Where's the hose. Gay? I'm not even happy.
18th!!
First
First