Winchester 1873 & 1911 - DB2020 - Day 1 - Classic Manual
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- Karl, Ian and Mike discuss Desert Brutality 2020, Day 1 (Stages 1-3) in Classic Manual division, running an 1873 Winchester & a 1911.
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DEAR INTERNET (NOT PRESENT AT THE EVENT) RANGE OFFICERS:
2.4.2.2
If at any time during the course of fire, a participant allows the muzzle of his loaded firearm to point rearwards (i.e. further than 90 degrees from the median intercept of the
backstop, or in the case of no backstop, allows the muzzle to point up-range). This does not apply to RO verified unloaded rifles and unloaded pistols.
And for manual division RO verifying meant firing a cartridge and leaving the action closed.
@@SinistralRifleman Hey Russel (so)Edit will you upload your stages?
Sebastian Zinkl I don’t understand the question.
Modern firearms will drop mag and clear.
Manual firearms will Fire the cartridge and leave the action closed.
@@SinistralRifleman sorry I meant to write "will" instead of "so", had a temporary failure to think
Oh I see. I was like "he did not clear that rifle before he slung it and now its pointing at the RO." I thought you were going to get DQ right off the bat. Thanks for the info.
*Man aggressively yells "Hit!"*
They always do
A kind and gentle voice would be more feng shui. Now where is my sewing basket?
@@taggartlawfirm
Gently caress the shooter's shoulders, kiss their neck, and whisper "hit" in their ear.
That's just common decency.
@@calska140 got a shiver down my spine reading you
At least they’re not saying “impact!” like a twat, hits is where it’s at!
This one sparks joy.
*Man runs with ar15 and a glock* this one does not spark joy
Karl looks like an NCR ranger being followed by some NCR grunts
Patrolling the Mojave almost makes you wish for a nuclear winter.
@@Bubben246 I thought there would be more gambling with this assignment.
CURVED. SWORDS.
Oh shit wrong reference...
DB2021 needs Mike in the garb of a legionnaire.
Some of the armored guys have been spreading stories about the Burned Man again
1911, so I guess he has the Honest Hearts DLC installed
So basically my New Vegas build
Trail Carbine
.45 Pistol
Or
A Light Shining in The Darkness
Medicine Stick & .45 Pistol is always mine
Mike is a vanilla NCR guy, Karl has at least Honest Hearts installed, Ian uses mods.
I long for a Boomer-compatible match, and I don't mean a 1911.
@@zachburkey447 This is the correct answer.
uses lever action in a two gun challenge... auto pistol fails the par.
I would have done better with the lever gun on the spinner.
InRangeTV have you got a Volcanic Pistol?
@@liamstephenson1686 I'm pretty sure those Volcanics are rarer then hens teeth. As not too many were made and survived.
@@liamstephenson1686 The supply of rimfire ammo for one of those is long gone.
The Volcanic would have been even lower in power than the 45acp.
Not much power from those quasi rocket rounds.
Man I wish we could have these kind of matches here in Aus, this looks so goddam fun. I'm also liking the format change to this vid being one shooter-division focused for the whole day.
Looking forward to more vids from this series! Never stop with the DB fun!
No reason why something broadly similar couldn't be run here.... of course everyone would be in "Classic manual" Division I suppose... I shoot IPSC on a range only 35 metres long NOT approved for rifle calibres (the 73 would be fine of course! ) but given access to one of the clubs rifle ranges something could be done. I also shoot "Wild Bunch" (spin off from Cowboy Action - 1911 in 45 auto/40cal+ lever Rifle/shotgun) and we have started shooting a Bolt Action match as part of that... so many of us would have "match legal" gear I reckon. Hell..I could go Austro-Hungarian and use my 95 Steyr Rifle and 1912 Steyr pistol! (The pistol would be a handicap...8 round...stripper clip loading lol - better off with the 1911) The closest we have got - without kettle bells and hundred yard sprints - is a side match called "The Doughboy" Stage based - Bolt Action rifle... 1911...and shotgun. Im thinking we could drop the shotgun from that event and still have as much fun...
no gun club in AU?
@@yulusleonard985 Plenty of clubs and ranges, but not many large enough to run a similar match, and the laws don't let us use all the fun stuff.
@@Ihasanart Nailed it! I am very fortunate to live close to a range that offers virtually all matches available in Australia...
Shooting in Australia is 95% old men who just want to lay on the berm and shoot 24 rounds all day. I'm very jealous of these events in the US
Good Lord, that range officer! I bet people two states over heard him yelling "HIT"
@Benghali In Platforms true, I usually don't have a hard time hearing steel during events. His screaming would distract me! Lol
@@eirekraut9423 ..I suppose it's one way to be certain the RO's earning his rate/wage. ..working enthusiasm??
Reminds me of the movie Big Jake. The blending of “new” gun tech with “old”.
If Ian was doing similar to Karl and wanted to do the Big Jake thing, he could have borrowed a Bergmann for the handgun....
@@charlesadams1721 you mean a P-38 with some decorative shit welded to it?
Throw in a Greener double barrel and you've got a 3 gun setup as well!
@@jakeplissken"Near or Far?"
And people think that the Mandolorian was the first to feature a Bergmann, I think the one first carried by the actor playing Wayne's son (who was Robert Mitchum's son) and later was carried by the character played by John Wayne's son.
Running that lever action looked fun! I need to get out and shoot mine more often.
As far as those criticizing the RO for being so loud, I would rather have him loud than quite. With everyone having hearing protection on and other stages going on in the background along with random gun fire from other people at the range he better be loud!
The lever gun certainly showed its speed.
I feel like people complaining about the RO being loud have never shot in an event like this
When we do WW1 2 - Electric Boogaloo I will for sure take a lever-action with me.
My only concern would be the relatively slow reload but then again it's a pretty light rifle with 13 rounds so what about taking two with you?
I hate it when studios make sideways sequels like that. Like Final Fantasy 10 - 2.
I Will watch in you upload. Do you have à Channel
@@flightlesschicken7769 they were not anywhere near as fast
Russians used them
At one time, and still for myself, the levergun was referred to as "The Appalachian Assault Rifle" . Usually a 94 but ya run what ya brung.
I have a pre 64 model 94 in 3030. Haven’t shot it any further than 100 yards. Kicks like a buffalo couldn’t imagine rapid fire off horseback
Nick Spittler I have a slicked up Rossi lever action in .45 Colt that makes a damn good Calif urban rifle.
I lived in the northern foothills of the Allegheny Mountains ( part of the Appalachia region but not in the South). Our old 1873 was just that! My Dad ran off trespassing city folk deer hunters with it when I was a kid. It also put some not so legal venison on the table.
@@jeffreyroot6300 I'm from the northern Alleghenies myself 👍
Your dad's Marlin 336 dirty-thirty
Man.....receiving fire while reloading out of a cartridge belt would be a humbling experience.
Welcome to the US Army on the Plains in the 1870s.
The tumble weed in the 1st trench was a subtle and nice touch
I like the themes from different time periods a lot. People that think a gun is a gun would never get how cool this kind of stuff makes a cool match cooler.
Try the WWI action shooting using a colt 1911 and a Winchester model 1895 Russian Contract Rifle
This Red Dead Redemption 2 mod looks great. Is it on nexus?
That positive thinking stuff is no joke. When I was shooting .22 three position matches, my coach taught me to, on the car ride over (if I wasn’t the one driving) to shoot the match in my head. Visualize every single shot, even visualize putting the rifle down if you don’t immediately visualize a good sight picture. Was a massive improvement on my shooting.
Me and my kinfolk are from Montana and we have a real soft spot in our hearts for lever guns. I shoot left handed so lever guns are my favorite to shoot. I Would love to see these stages on horse back. Good shooting karl!!!!!
This is an awesome example of how awesome the lever action truly is
Desert Brutality is always a good watch. I love this channel
tumbleweed in the trench for maximum immersion. Windy west, natural habitat of the lowly tumbleweed.
Akshully tumbleweeds came from Ukraine in the 1870's.
@@flightlesschicken7769 >Destroys tumbleweeds with malicious intent.
😉
Well the US was fighting against Mexicans during the revolutionary period which overlaps WWI so desert WWI for US isn't completely wrong.
Pretty cool! Can't believe the spinner didn't go over on that first mag though.
Karl’s response to it being the 21st century was great
Longmire comes to mind when I see this but if only he was using a Winchester 1894 instead of a ‘73
Such a great show. I need to rewatch it again. What's funny is I was always like "Wyoming is so beautiful!" (and I'm sure it is), but the entire show was filming in New Mexico. Lol.
Lyset it’s funny because when I started watching it I was like damn this place is beautiful then I realized oh shit this is my state in the northern region of NM lol. It’s funny how the state is the more north you go the more it looks like Colorado and and more south you go looks like south Arizona. But if you stay in the middle the more like Afghanistan it looks like 😂😂
I've always wanted to see a levergun at a 2gun match!
I love these videos showcasing older firearms. I'm not a man of means and almost all the guns I own are at least a hundred year old by way of design.
Loving seeing the lever gun being used in setting like this! Super cool demonstration of the "OG assault rifle" idea, and just an all-around cool thing to see! Makes the western books which are becoming one of my guilty pleasures come to life! Keep up the great work guys!
Where's that duster from? I kinda dig it.
I think it's from scully. They do alot of clothing for Cowboy Action Shooting wich is a historic shooting competition done in historical costume. Good fun
What's a tank trap?.....oh! A Czech hedgehog!
2:15 Woah, hold your horses! "And a red light"?
I meant it, literally, hold those horses! There's a red light!
Lol 👍
I so get where Karl is coming from. Lever actions, at the end of the day, are just tremendous fun. Bonus (important bonus): they actually work! Here's to all of my fellow olds who were raised with Marlin .30-30s or whatever. Perfect guns for young shooters. Which is not a slam. Great for any age shooters.
Kasarda drill should be an olympic event.
Big iron, big iron.
When he tried to match the ranger with the big iron on his hip.
7:05
I was literally holding my breath and round counting while watching this first engagement. I was so sad that Karl pared out. :( Such an awesome runs with Lever action. Yeeehaw intensifies.
Oh, and extra points for cosplay. Looks epic. ;)
Thanks for the effort you are putting in this videos. I could feel the pain in the kassarda drill
I wonder how much better( or worse) the spinner would've went if Karl was using a Single Action Army on the clock.
Far worse.
As someone with a bad back. That kettlebell drill was painful to watch lol. Be careful with that one
Beautiful rifle, beautiful stages.
First one reminds me of that trench stage in Red Oktober.
Good stuff.
Man, I felt that at the end when your magazine went dry on the spinner before it went over..
Twice!
@@AM-hf9kk Ha yah.. but especially the first time when it was juuuuust about to go over, and then slidelock.. I cringed a lil bit lol
Didn't seem like an 8-shot-friendly spinner, based on this video.
It wasn't friendly to anyone.
@@InrangeTv Those bastards never are...
The first two days of the shoot (I couldn't stay for sat/sun) I think only 4/107 ppl spun the spinner. I think a higher number, but still very low from sat/sun. I took me 12 shots with 4 misses in there to spin it. I was shooting a .40cal P226 with iron sights. A lot of people were shooting non-modern guns with limited magazine capacity. That said, one guy cleared it with a .45cal 1911A1.
Human performance research on motor tasks involving eye-hand coordination benefits strongly from visualization. This is particularly true if one concentrates on the details of the task, taking as long as the actual task will take. Benefits equivalent for upwards of 50% of actual practice can be realized.
Amazing! Great job Karl! Quite educational.
I always enjoy your videos, but this was the best one in a long time. Although I do have safes full of modern guns, my heart is still with the older ones. I hunt and shoot skeet with either a SxS (sometimes a Pedersoli muzzleloader) or 1897 Winchester, and around the property, I usually have either a Colt 1872 or 1973 on my hip. And when I used to shoot IDPA, I'd place in the top 3 overall shooting a Sokol Custom 3" Model 13 Smith while most of the other shooters are shooting Glocks and 1911's. There's nothing wrong with the old, hand crafted, guns.
I'm imagining a speed loader for the kings gate system: A metal socket at the gate and a tube with a plunger to press rounds in, like the tube fed shotguns in 3- gun. Suddenly the 5 round packet clip seams diminutive...
It exists. A friend makes, or at least used to make, them in the UK, and there's patents on the concept back to the 1870's IIRC.
@@BlokeontheRange oh ! Got a link for that ?
@@docthorr Google is your friend :)
Plenty around. The problem is having something(s) that long dangling off your body while running/squatting/going prone/whatever.
I nominate this this run as the most epic 2G run ever, do I hear a second?
Second that lol. It really makes me want to try this with a single action revolver as well as the lever actio
@@jontee3437 RIP when you get to the spinner. Lol
Only if they allow Joesy Wales carry, 4 or 5 revolvers!
@@notsure4128 lol I would fail so hard i'd have to throw my empty gun at the spinner
Aye
I'm more jealous of these guys fits than I am of Karl's shooting, and I really don't know how that happened.
The dude calling your hits in the first run sounds just like Squirrely Dan yelling
You're pretty good at shooting Karl and that's what i appreciates about you
Gentleman's Combatives take about 20% off there squirrely dan
This format was much easier to watch than Finish Brutality. That format made it difficult to follow along with what was happening. I was concerned that this match would follow suit. This is much clearer.
I love watching the bloke add layers. I hate being cold and sympathize
Very impressive. Just watching that kettle bell made my back ache.
Man that looks like a fun course of fire. Rule number 1, cardio.
Speaking of high capacity lever guns-- Karl needs an Evans.
Solid effort Karl, I noticed you were paying a lot more attention too your round count. Nicely done
Liked your "riot shield" so much I made one for our IPSC match tomorrow! Thanks for the idea!!!
What is the safety procedure in the 1873? An open lever is really awkward, and you can’t reload, so I’m going to say you can’t run with the action open. There is no other external safety and an empty chamber is not a realistic option. leaving the last empty cartridge in the chamber? (Cuz Id never remember and crank the lever) Other then “don’t sweep anything,” how do you safely move? Hammer down? Half-cock?
Bolt closed on an empty chamber, or a fired cartridge.
Thanks Guys. Glad you had a good time!
Rich.
Next year: 2 KETTLEBELLS
Ben A shut up, just shut up.
@@taggartlawfirm Weirdly aggressive response
@@alphaprawns he's probably afraid daddy kasarda's gonna see this and agree
While we're at it, why not a running stage with a 100 lb weighted vest?
@@ComradeBenedict No that's how you break people's bodies.
No you gotta run the match with a shock collar that shocks you every random interval.
That kettle ball... I was exhausted just watching. Way to push through!!
To Karl, I'm sure you remember the time (because I think I remember mentioning it in a previous video) where a lever gun was used with good effect by a modern army, the Ottomans in the Battle of Plevna in 1877. Of course, they used the model 1866 Winchester not the more modern 1977. Even after this was widely known among the world's militaries, they still didn't avail themselves of the increased firepower. I wonder if the lesson learned was that the long-range single-shot rifle (Peabody-Martini's I think I remember) of the Ottomans was more important than the short range of the lever actioned rifle. That would need to wait another 50-80 or years for the lesson of firepower to be re-discovered.
Looking at the smoke from a single person with black powder out of that lever action, I can understand why a lot of militaries were reluctant to use something like that.
@@MASSspec1990well, considering black powder was all everyone had up until the late 1800s, the smoke from massed numbers of troops or artillery was a real thing. In that regard, single somewhat widely spaced soldiers with lever guns wasn't a real problem, or at least wasn't noted.
I still remain sceptical on the practical use of the 1873 as a military rifle. Maybe as a dragoon’s rifle, or somewhere you can dictate the engagement range, but not massed or standard. Cavalry was still the tank of the day, and even with increasing fire rates, charges were rarely broken with massed fire. Up until smokeless powder and MG’s, massed formations and bayonets were the go to methods for defending against cavalry.
As for the battle of Plevna, considering that smokeless powder came along soon after, you could argue that militaries did learn that lesson by the adoption of small bore smokeless cartridges. It just depends on how much each nation learned. As observed in Ian’s video on the .280 FAL that just came up, 7mm is a sweet spot for small bore (non-intermediate) rifle cartridges, yet a lot of nations tried and failed to improve on that.
@@MASSspec1990 well, you too can be like the Russian army and not learn from practical experience as detailed in this article (there are other articles but most of them are longer in regards to the experiences of this battle - militaryrifles.com/Turkey/Plevna/ThePlevnaDelay.html
Thanks for taking the initiative to use a lever gun and show that they are capable and still can be relevant.
Great info and content, boys. Well done. I look forward to joining you in the next few years.
13:00 bro those kettle bell throws looked terrible! Felt your pain. I want to do this so bad with the same firearm setup.
Glad to see Karl out there with the older tech. Anyone show up with single shots in .45-70 or .50-70 to compete?
Nope
Yes! The Lever Action holds its own!!!!!
Calling all fudds to unite
That second drill was great fun to watch. Really enjoyed the grunts... LOL.
Excellent video. Lever actions are still viable self defense weapons (or offensive assault weapons, for that matter) in States where ARs and other modern semiautos are banned.
SWEET! More lever rifle action!
Good shooting. But next time remember to sling the gun over your left shoulder so as not to affect the aim on your primary hand.
Surprising amount of British surplus camo shows up on inrange and forgotten weapons.
To be honest, Carl looks like such a baller with his legacy firearms, hat and overcoat.
There's something to be said for low recoil and high volume of fire, even in a manually operated rifle. And also rear aperture sights.
i love that win 1873 cool gun
Todd get off the damn four wheeler we’re trying to run a match here
That quad made the match possible to run on time.
Karl, I kind of have to disagree on the Winchester 1895 assessment. I grant that it's not quite as fast as the shorter actions, but it's still more than capable of being plenty fast when the rifle is in good operating condition (which most of the Russian ones are not any more). My experience comes from a Miroku made Winchester brand saddle ring carbine in .30-40 Krag (which has the 'modern' tang safety and rebounding hammer) and Miroku made Browning brand sporter in .30-06 (which is a near perfect copy of the originals, with none of the modern safety add-ons). Both are pretty slick on stroke, though they fall slightly short of my Uberti 73 or any of my slicked up Rossi 92's. It's easily on par with my really nice '46 Model 94 in .32 Special and a smidge behind my Marlin 94 CB that has been a project since I got it (previous own had made some not terribly well done modifications, like trying to fit sling swivels improperly).
What do you disagree with, exactly? Karl just said that the 1895 cycles in a very different way and that the 1873 is faster. Nothing more.
@@MarvinCZ I imagine his experience is based on Ian's shooting of an original Russian contract rifle. As I recall, that rifle had issues, largely due to it's age and condition. The examples I've got are in practically brand new condition and operate much more smoothly. I'd say that I am virtually no slower with them than just about all of my pistol/light rifle cartridge leverguns. While I've never had the chance to properly time myself, I do know that I'm reasonably fast with them, certainly not top cowboy action shooter fast, but likely mid-range CAS fast.
@@USSEnterpriseA1701 Put yourself on a timer with a dude watching you running the same drill with both at some range and have someone videotape it and you could have an interesting discussion on your hands!
So from my understanding of the guns, which is limited to book/internet knowledge so to be taken with many grains of salt, the post 1892 action put together by browing is extremely strong, almost redundantly so, meaning there are more parts locking up, also the rifle cartridge in the 1895 requires a longer lever throw to clear the case and lift the next one. Both of these factors combine to have a slower (but probably not slow) gun. Or I'm just talking shit
@@JaguarSeraph I ever get the chance, I'll jump at it, but right now life events dictate that doing that will have to wait for a better time. Honestly, I want to know for sure myself.
That is one way to "smoke" the stages!
Fantastic videos lads. Touch of the " Monty,s" there Ian. Brilliant 😁
I'd love to know how you placed with the winchester
Watch day 2 coming on Wednesday.
Shout out to Chino Valley, Az!
i really want a lever action rifle now
Me need some more manual rifle competitions.
Awesome stage design, and a great run!
For the use of lever action rifles in trench warfare, check out the Turks use of the Winchester mod. 1866 at Plevna during the 1877 Russo-Turkish war. There is nothing new.
It's not like that's the first trench warfare with a lever gun , Rather certain that Henrys got used at Petersburg in the Civil War in 1865
.44-40: The OG 10mm
Think I would have slung across the back instead of over the shoulder might have been more stable
I once saw man use a dowel and PVC pipe to make the equivalent to a lever-gun stripper clip.
For Winchester style or Henry style magazine?
Winchester.
Great work on the kettle bell stage old man!
The Village People of the shooting world.
busting the myth out of computer game reloading
I would love to do tournaments like this... would be so cool
When he used his sidearm, I thought “Oh, there’s the 20th century”
After abut 4 of those kettle throws I would have shot the bell
That is not that far from the truth. My first throw was about 9 yards with a one-shot quick hit. My last throw was maybe 2 yards with bleary eyes, wobbly muzzle, and several rounds thrown in the general direction until the "Hit" call was heard (with maybe one more shot after while the call filtered into my fatigue-addled mind).
GREAT! Luv seeing the lever action in action! :)
During Karl's trench run the RO's "HIT" sounded like he was being hit with some strong airsoft rounds :P
"I heard they've sent some rangers down south...'
Love seeing small companies get exposure
Karl, are you going to discuss why the Miroku is superior to the Uberti in your opinion?
I would watch this
I still watch any other videos too
I'm proud of you guys. That looks damn difficult
I think this showed me at least that even old lever guns may have been a great option in WW1, and maybe if the US had adopted any of the repeaters, we would've seen them in use. I do wonder how they truly would have fared, but I think they'd easily outperform a bolt gun, given the closer ranges and likely faster fire given by a lever gun. The russians liked their Winchesters good enough to adopt it, so maybe this would be an interesting alternate history conversation piece.