Let's be honest! A Bridge too Far has turned into a super interesting and good war film. Many famous actors, action, tanks, Holland and an epic. It's a shame that the Battle of Berlin was never filmed at this level. Great video.
Edward Fox as Horrocks is my favourite portrayal of a historical figure. The two men knew each other, so Fox spent a summer with Horrocks to capture his style of delivery
Me too. I've read and watched nearly everything Horrocks produced and dug into a lot of 30 Corps primary sources but I still half see Fox when I think Horrocks.
Fox, besides being a marvelous actor, also perfectly embodies the quintessential attitude of a British Cavalry officer as well as the British gentleman that he is. His style of delivering the 'Just in time is soon enough' proved to be somewhat prophetic. In reality and despite German unplesantness at Son and Veghel, XXX Corps made it within hours of the original time schedule of Market Garden to contact with 82nd Airborbe at Grave. Only to then have, for lack of the Nijmegen bridges being captured, to dedicate itself to a fight it was not intended for; Fighting through the urban and SS-infested hellscape of Nijmegen for the better part of three precious days. After that the fight turned into one with Gen. Gavin and Browning, who both stated that XXX Corps had shown up too late to make the difference. This was not the case. The Cavalry was fashionably in time.
I enjoy all your podcasts including this one thanks. Did you miss speak you said bridge too far was the first time Germans spoke German and I think it was famously done in the longest day cheers
I think the sequence on the day of the jump starting when they get out of bed in the music builds and they show Trooper after Trooper going out of the plane with the static lines hanging to the trip down stunning
Those James Caan scenes (Staff Sergeant Eddie Dohun) make this film stronger. It emphasizes the suffering of the wounded fighting soldiers and officers. PTSD was also highlighted in the Hospital Scene. Ask a 19 year old what he thought was the strongest and most memorable moment of A Bridge Too Far and there is a good chance that he will mention the James Caan scenes. It was also unclear to me for years whether his US captain was dead or whether he was still alive...? Powerful scene, I can't say anything else and it fits very well into the film. but perhaps more of these kinds of "personal" scenes should have been included. The best greetings of a fan.
I remember my Mum & Dad taking me to watch this at the Pictures. My Grandad had died just before, one of the things I still have are his Sergeants Stripes, his Glengarry (1st Royal Scots) and a copy of Cornelius Ryan's book. I must Say Connery was brilliant in this film, especially in his last scene with Dirk Bogarde the way he looks down at his smock and the small shake of his head when asked if he wants to change. I always get emotional when the sihouetted figures appear on the river bank as they are evacuated. My son served in 1st Btn Irish Guards and my Mum lived next door to Michael Caine's Auntie on The Lawson Estate so another little connection.
Great show, Woody; can’t argue with any of your opinions. BTW, as an 82d vet, was privileged to participate in the daily Nijmegen memorial bridge crossing earlier this year, in honor of the men killed in the assault crossing of the River Waal on this day in 1944.
Thanks for a terrific show on a movie that I’m sure gave so much pleasure to us school kids in the 1970’s. We were fortunate to grow up in an era of classic war movies. Made by and large by people who had lived through that war. I’m reminded of the story William Goldman tells of going to dinner with John Frost. And him begging him to take out the surrender scene on the bridge. Goldman wanted to pump up Frost as much as possible and make him the hero of the movie. But Frost didn’t want that. He knew the real heroes of Market Garden were buried in Holland. And Goldman realised he had been treating Frost as a fictional character in his script and not a real person. That to me shows the character of that generation. These people fought to defeat Nazi Germany because they knew it was the morally right thing to do. They didn’t do it for glory or personal prestige.
lost count how many times myself and my brother watched this with our Grandad, along with longest day, the dirty dozen Kelly's heroes etc. love them all and I think this was my Grandads way of telling us about WW2 as kids because like many other WW2 veterans he didn't speak about it
"A Bridge too Far" was one of the last films I watched before I graduated from High School and enlisted in the Army. I still remember being thrilled with the epic scenes of the air drops and combat depicted in the film. This was before I really knew about the true cost of battle as I discovered later in my life. After I read Cornelius Ryan's book I did notice the artistic license taken with the film. Looking back on it I clearly see the slightly anti-British mood throughout form the beginning. The acting overall was very well done, despite some of the miscasting. One must remember that actors take on roles for employment and have no, or little control over the script. I will always look upon this film as a classic, well deserving of the praises heaped upon it. I try to watch it at least once a year, if nothing else but to hear those many quotable scenes that Woody mentions. My favorite was General Horrock.s (Edward Fox) at the briefing: "This is a story that you'll tell your grandchildren about! And mightily bored they'll be!" Such typical British understatement right from the start. PS: Please do support WW2TV on Patreon if you can. It is well worth the money.
@@Scaleyback317 I am certainly referring to the British reputation for understatement. I hope I didn't offend, but I have noticed the distinct difference between British and American humor over the years. I cherished the differences as I watched such programs as Monty Python and Benny Hill. I noticed such a propensity as far back as when I studied the works of Chaucer and Shakespeare in high school. I am endeared to the difference and if adherence is what you ask, than I am guilty. I truly mean this as a high complement to the people from which my native tongue originated. Cheers.
One of Arnhem's unsung is actor, broadcaster, correspondent & singer, Stanley Maxted. Born in England but raised almost from infancy in Toronto, Ontario, Maxted, seconded to the BBC from the CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation) reported from the front during Market Garden & created live recordings during the battle @ Arnhem. He played himself during the 1946 filming of, There's Was the Glory. (His lack of a British accent is quite noticeable.) Maxted stated many times both publicly & privately, that one of the most memorable experiences of his long career was to hear the familiar sounding voices of the Canadian engineers as they shouted instructions to the survivors of the fight as they neared the western bank of the river during the evacuation. Oddly, but then again not, Maxted's reporting, like those efforts of Canadian engineers are hardly mentioned. While not directly related to the film A Bridge Too Far, I post the above because most fellow Canadians following this fine series are almost totally ignorant of these contributions to the Market Garden story. Particularly Maxted.
The soundtrack is amazing - it really conveys the optimism at the start but then reality takes over. It's really well used in the film especially when the destruction of Arnhem and the effect on the civillians is shown. There's a scene where the doctors are driving through Arnhem and you can Laurence Oliver is just looking at the destruction with the score in the background.
I agree with you on Ryan O'Neal. I remember a quote from a critic at the time. He said "follow Ryan O'Neal into battle? I wouldn't follow Ryan O'Neal into the men's room".
@@flashgordon6670Sounds like they should’ve asked you! You seem to have all the answers anyway - sorry you got passed over by such undeserving characters
Ryan O'Neill was massively hyped in the mid 1970s, for a brief time he was a huge star. But people seemed to notice he was only average. Wish they'd done the same with Tom Cruise and left that ham in the 1970s.
Even then there were a lot of stories going around about Ryan O'Neal enjoying the Dutch pleasures and not being very sober on the set. But he was nice towards the extras, I can say out of my own experience. He was approachable and talked between the takes with us...
I remember having a few drinks with ‘Shan’ Hackett, in the Adelphi Hotel in Perth. He had just released his book on WW3. He was a brigadier with the paratroops dropped on Arnhem, was badly wounded in the battle and his life was saved by a German doctor. Later he was rescued by the Dutch resistance, nursed back to health and able to escape toAllied lines. He was charming company and, over numerous beers, recalled what he could of the battle most vividly. He regarded it as ‘ a bit of a disaster’, as I recall. Like my dad, he received 2 DSOs.
I'm 75 and the oldest son of a British para. Back in 2001 we visited with one of my Dad's comrades who was one of Frost's men. We spent most of the day with them..He was my Dad's Drill Sergeant. I really appreciate this as it has brought back memories of that day. My Father and I would regularly attend the Arnhem dinner in Sydney, each year with the British High Commissioner in Australia. Thinking of my Dad and his comrade today.
Thank you so much for this. In 1977 some parents took their sons to watch Star Wars, my Dad took me to see "A Bridge Too Far." It had a huge influence on me and does still. But it's really great to have this discussion to add so much to the experience while watching it all over again.
Agreed! I was a Star Wars kid but must have watched Bridge with my Dad (8 Corps bag carrier's assistant) three or four times. Always good having a veteran as movie critic. 😊
I went into the city on my own to see Star Wars at 13 , and Dad took me to the Drive In. Dad had a handlebar moustache and was drinking long necks in the car . He was the same generation as the actors.I think I fell asleep near the middle
And thanks for all the work you put into this channel on WW2. For me that war is not a abstract thing from the past. My father fought at Tobruk in 1941 and was awarded the DCM for exceptional bravery during the May 4th battle on hill 209. So I know the character and quality of a lot of the people you talk about on your channel.
Perhaps the only big budget film that showed the massive Fist the British Army was in 1944/45 on the continent, all the major allied Tank actions were on the British / Canadian axis of advance. The Music for the film is brilliant.
I had 4'uncle's who was in this rade an only 2came out so that's why this oldswet my self an EX'PARA is jumping in this wkend like thay all did bk 80yrs ago!! So hopefully see u all there!!? We will remember them!! Green on mucker from a oldswet my self an ex'service AB ALL THE WAY BROTHER FROM A EX'PARA!! Top channel guy's keep this up n rolling out 😊
I love the scene where General Joe van der ler (caine) drives down the road filled with shermans on a humber staff amoured car-pure panzer leader from the front stuff
I’ve learned more about WW2 from you and your guest than from any other source. Incredible topics ( some very obscure and some forgotten but important in the overall scheme of winning the war). I’ve ordered books your guests discuss because I trust your guests to be the very best subject matter experts. Your guests tell it like it is- pull no punches and have opened me up to more critical thinking about WW2. Keep doing this important work Woody.
Watch the other video in this Arnhem series implying that the Soviet's employed their agents to tip the Germans off about 'Market Garden' in order to give themselves an easier time in the east
@@stephenchappell7512 I suspect the Luftwaffe could see a build up, and the Germans captured the entire plan about an hour into the first drop. Conspiracies aren't required.
I moved to the Netherlands a few years ago....the bridge in the movie is Deventer bridge...the Arnhem bridge was destroyed ...i actually live close to a lot of where it wax shot ...the scene where a jeep is racing through the woods with a injured soldier is the white castle behind my house....my mother in law remembers all the movie stars around the town...
A little correction: the Arnhem bridge was not an option because of some high rise new building near the bridge. The present bridge is an almost 100% copy of the original. It was rebuild shortly after the war based on the original plans. The forest scene was filmed near Jachtslot Mookerheide, indeed a white "castle". Was myself an extra in the movie for a number of days in the summer of 1976. I have so many special memories at that adventure ...
I remember one of the contemporary reviews of the film said Ryan O'Neal looked less like a soldier than like someone who was about to ask, "Tennis, anyone?" :)
Noting the comments about the absence of Montgomery in this movie, did you notice in Patton, you never saw Eisenhower? BTW, saw this movie when it came out - I was 15. Still enjoy it. And I admire that the Dutch people have not forgotten what the Allies did to liberate their country.
One advantage of populating the film with recognizable movie stars is that it helped the audience keep track of where things were happening. For example, when they saw Connery, they knew they were watching events at Arnhem, when they saw O'Neal, they were at Nijmegen, Caine was on the road trying to reach Arnhem, etc.
I knew quite a few US paratroopers who were there and met many more as a 101st Airborne soldier in the early 80s, they loved the Dutch and as for the movie it was just that. I belinged to the 82nd division association James Etherton in Detroit and we had paratroopers and glidermen who fought in this. One soldier of the 307th Al Neamith crossed the waal river 3 times ferrying 504th guys over. He uad a way to tell a story in a just a short sentence. Movie can only pack so much in. British did everything they could but the Germans were getting their crap back in order. Maybe if they'd launched a few weeks earlier before the SS arrived it would have been different. So is war right. The British actors were great in this movie. Cheers
@@starioskal I think there is one issue that is mainly missed when talking about this operation, that is, from early in the war, numerous attempts were made to infiltrate intelligence agents into Holland by SOE, I believe they were nearly all caught, and in some cases forced to feed back information under german control. I think this was the reason that dutch intelligence was not taken seriously because they had no way of knowing whether the source had been compromised.
@@pauldurkee4764 that was the exactly why British intelligence didn't trust Dutch intelligence. We have the enviable position of hindsight. When talking with the veterans I knew they'd remind you that they believed they'd win the war, but even in the fall of 44 weren't sure. They still had to get into Germany and do their job.
@@WW2TVOh Woidy, you're a hard man! It was a great film, free of all the garbage that Spielberg tacked onto Private Ryan. And an interesting and respectful rendition of a great book.
(1) Great video as usual! Thank you! Sharing my thoughts as I watch it... (2) Compacting such a monumental operation on a three-hour movie is a tour de force, which came out superbly, notwithstanding its perceivable shortcomings. (3) Yes, General Urquhart shooting thee German soldier ended up unduly as one of the movie's most memorable scenes. Too shocking to be otherwise, but it could not be left out. Maybe another approach to filming the scene might change this a bit. (4) About the casting, my reservations go to Robert Redford and Elliot Gould. Redford not because any flaw of his own. It's just that I couldn't set aside my memories of his previous acting roles while watchig him acting as an American paratrooper. As for Gould, I think he exaggerated in the characterization of his part, so much so that all I remember is a cigar protruding from his lips. Maybe I'm exaggerating in my assessment here... (5) It would have been amazing if CG was available to upscale the airdrops and glider landings to their actual, gigantic sizes. On the other hand, it costs a small fortune for CG to work really well, that being the reason we see movies in dark shades, desaturated colors, showing mostly night and/or rain scenes, poor coloring and so forth. Just compare Mitchum's and Jürgens's "The Enemy Below" with Hanks's "Greyhound", both great movies, but the first makes for much better watching experience, in my opinion. Anyway, they made the best with what they had to represent Market Garden's airdrops and glider landings, and they did it pretty well indeed. (6) Back to the video...
I couldn’t agree with you more Paul. Forget some details. One can still watch it over and over again without getting annoyed. Compared to the horrible “Battle of the Bulge”, this movie holds its own.
Paul, Thanks for this discussion on the film and I would agree with the points you make. It is true that the film and indeed its stars have become the benchmark for how we think of the Market Garden operation. It is sad that the 'war epic' type of movie is not made anymore and even if it was my view is the current generation of actors could not carry it off effectively!
It is the benchmark for how mistakenly we think of the Market Garden operation. The film is a travesty designed for one thing only - a whitewashing and absolution for those who made a mess of it and that is not Montgomery or Browning as the film would have you believe. Do some research (without referrel to the book or the film - entertaining but garbage for historical purposes) and then ask if you have been presented with anything approaching truthful concerning the whole affair since the disaster unfolded due to the errors of two men in particular. See if you can identify for yourself who those two culprits might be from deeper research. It was not Montgomery's plan. Montgomery had the idea (and it could have been hugely effective correctly planned and administered) It was easier for US sources to point fingers and allow Monty to take the popular rap for something which others should have been investigated for but apparently were not.
I think the James Caan scene was more a nod to the book. When Cornelius Ryan wrote his books they told the grand sweeping story of the battles but they also included so many individual personal stories. That IMO is what made them great.
I think it works better in the book, because the book by definition can tell more stories. I just don't think it adds anything to the movie, and as I said, the screen time given to it could have been used expanding the story of one or more of the other characters
@@WW2TV Have you read William Goldman's autobiography? He explains the reasons for including the scene in the screenplay and the negative response it attracted.
I'd rather read two books - the overall sweep and the personal. It's the done thing now to mix the two, but I'm not a fan. The two strands get in each other's way. I'd rather stay with a soldier or unit for a whole narrative and going back to the broad sweep feels like telling my Great Uncle Tom to shut up about his experiences while we discuss what Monty was saying to Browning. That is, pretty rude.
The actor playing von Rundstedt had also played Kesselring in the movie "Anzio" flamboyally, his portrayal totally at variance with the austere personality of the real von Rundstedt. You will see him in the film saying (dismissively) to his assembled staff when one of them assumed Montgomery would lead the attack: 'Not Montgomery, Patton is their best'. Von Rundstedt did make that remark but when in American captivity. When in British captivity he told his captor's that Montgomery was their best. In the film (of course) it sounds as though Patton had the talents to be the Allied Land Force Commander which he did not, he was a superb tank commander, Monty was the master of the battlefield. 30th Corps were not late arriving at Nijmegan they were on time, but US General Gavin had not secured the bridge because (along with Browning) he was diverted to gain hold of the Groesbeck Heights allowing the Germans to re-invest the far side of the bridge so (when 30th Corps arrived) they had to assist 82nd Airborne in capturing the bridge, by the time this was achieved it was too late to save the British paras. As I wrote below this was an anti-British movie with an American audience in mind. Fine acting undoubtedly, but it was American financed and as Sir Roy Urquhart would say (after he had watched the film) 'it is a travesty'.
First watched this when it was released in Aldershot on a 1977 Saturday afternoon while a lowly JINF at Depot Para. Cinema was packed. Lots of catcalls and laughs from more senior blokes during the jump scenes which were done by personnel from 1 PARA when they recognised someone in a fleeting glimpse. The parachutists wore contemporary (1976 when filmed) pattern Denison smocks and used contemporary parachutes.
Great talk, Woody, loved the "100 donuts" analogy. So true of many military ops. Agree with your assessment; great as a film, some flaws, some negatives in the legacy in misleading audiences about what actually happened during OMG. And very influential that way because movies tend to have so much more impact than books. A ten part series sounds great, you should pitch an agent.
A Bridge Too Far is a film I love. I've read that Bogarde took issue with his portrayal of Gen. Browning during filming, having known Browning personally, as he was a member of Monty's staff.
Yes, good WW2 film indeed Paul. But just a side note! Mr. Cornelis Mulder is in a scene at the Bitrich HQ as an extra as an SS officer. After the filming, this Mr. Mulder walked through the center of Deventer wearing his SS Hauptsturmfuhrer uniform. He said that he served in the Waffen SS as a corporal from 1941 to 1945 and had now been promoted. He was pulled from the film after 3 days there Attenborough in the summer of 1976.
Also, the Bridge too far movie was shot in 1976. I know for certain, since I was being trained as a National Service tank commander and was tasked to guard the verhicles at the barracks where they were stored.
I think the James Caan scene is important. I get that it seems a bit out of place with the rest of the film - and your information about how it was filmed kinda explains why that is - but it adds a subtle perspective of the battle - the notion that these paratroops have landed right in among the Germans, resulting in very loose frontlines, small units wandering about and stumbling into the enemy, soldiers getting cut off and having to get back to their own formations. It's the American version of the Connery scenes in Arnhem. Having said that, after my first viewing of the film, on each successive viewing I've noticed how it sticks out from the narrative. I think it's a great scene in itself, but it just doesn't quite gel with the rest of it. Best quote - "PANIC!". Also - best ever theme tune and introduction to the theme tune.
The film had some great highlights...Horrocks speech, the heroic crossing of the 82nd and the last stand of John frosts men at Arnhem bridge etc but it was also not without it's flaws like the scene with Carrington and the tanks of the Guards stopping at the bridge, one of the myths of the battle was that an American paratrooper became enraged that the five British tanks didn't press on to Arnhem after the battle. However, when you look at the evidence, as Robin Neillands shows in his book this exchange simply didn't happen. In fact, the 504th paras on the opposite side of the Waal were happy to see the tanks, and may have even gone off to go fight the Germans, leaving the tanks to guard the bridge head against expected German counter-attacks. There was no way Thirty Corps could press on to Arnhem before they'd tackled the 10th SS Panzer Division at Nijmegen.
I guess you can't argue too much about the tanks/vehicles as they are 'sponsored/provided' by the Military/Countries to support. Different to what Hollywood provides film makers nowadays. They did a great job portraying the 'struggle' to succeed the operation. The bitterness, the race to the last bridge, the obstacles to overcome. The same for the scene with the wounded captain, it doesn't add to the overall movie. But it does show those guys losing their comrades or got wounded. And it is impossible to copy all the actions 1-on-1 ofcourse.
Fun show! Something different between all the serious stuff. Not sure if you saw my final comment: Jack Didden was mentioned in comments on the Edwin Popken video (and I have read some of his work in Dutch) but he's a Dutch historian specialized in Noord-Brabant area (Hell's Highway, Overloon, Pheasant, Schelde etc). He's also published in English on Kamfgruppe Walter, Kampfgruppe Chill, German 15. Army... He might be an amazing guest to have
Browning had no business being in the position he was for sure but the one who should have been the fall guy (and there was probably more than one who should shoulder the responsibility was neither Browning nor Montgomery. Contrary to popular belief it was not Monty's plan. It was his idea and it was a worthy idea. The villain of the planning was a US General by the name of Brereton, inept and inexperienced in any way of airborne requirements/actions. It was great entertainment as a work largely of fiction as an historically accurate depiction it fell short in several major aspects. It served the author's wishes to offer absolution of any blame where the blame for the failure of the operation lay -on US heads and for the sake of the targetted audience (USA) skilfully avoided any finger pointing at US entities. Do your research and you'll see it's the usual whitewashing for US purposes to the detriment of all others especially the British. It just does not hold up to scrutiny.
Sure, it's an apples and oranges comparison, but there are some commenters here who seem to think that American commanders never got anything wrong and that the Brits go from blunder to blunder
@@WW2TV Examine the size of the operation versus casualties...WW1...The Somme,,, Jutland...WW2...Dieppe, Dunkirk, Market Garden...bad luck?? We had Pickett's "charge" and Custer's last stand...just plain stupid??
Great idea for a show Woody. Really enjoyed hearing your thoughts. I agree with your thoughts about Connery's portrayal of Urqhuart. Connery just seems so rugged, manly, hyper competent, that even if they'd taken pains to explain just how he screwed up, the audience wouldn't have bought it. "No, HE couldn't have screwed up, just look at him. HE must have been doing the right thing. It's someone else's mistake." Haha. Sasobowski should have been portrayed by a Pole, or at least a European who could do a passable Polish accent. Hackman could then have played Gavin. I think Robert Redford was perfect for the role he played. My only complaint is that both he and Ryan O'Neal were such American heartthrobs at the time, having them in the same scenes is slightly jarring. I'd have rather Hackman played played Gavin. Someone harder edged but still able to portray empathy would have been better as Gavin. I couldn't picture Ryan O'Neal achieving command of a division by age 37.
Some of the pushback reflects back to the mistakes in Ryan's source material but I to this day I will watch 'The Longest Day' and 'A Bridge Too Far' any time I have the opportunity. Same goes for 'Tora Tora Tora', 'The Battle of Britain', 'Patton' and 'From Here to Eternity.' As far as miscasting it is hard to top John Wayne in TLD but your 3 choices for Gavin, Taylor and 'Stout/Sink' I think they selected actors who were good draws' and resembled the historical figures more than others. With no CGI they used vehicles to represent the actual vehicles and the audience did not have the minutia critical eye for that sort of thing - it was the story, acting and glorious music.
Check out "They Were Expendable". I retired from Texas to Cavite, Philippines in 2018. This movie really covers a lot of real history - also a lot of invented Hollywood propaganda, but well made and shows the vanishing American cultural presence in the Philippines from that era.
The scene set (I think) in Holland that I witnessed being filmed in Reading, Berks shows an old fashioned terraced street as the Dakotas flew over. I couldn't believe my eyes and it wasn't until I saw the film that I realised what I saw from my dads car was real. The only dodgy thing was Gene Hackmans Polish accent 😅
On RUclips there is a fantastic documentary called Arnhem Report,It covers the making of the film,interviewing the actors and the real people they play,Urquart,Frost,Kate ter Horst and many more,very well recommended,If you haven't seen It Paul you will love It.
The Dutch officer with General Gavin may well have been from 2 Troop, 10 (Inter Aliied) Commando rather than a Jedburgh team. Each of the airborne divisions had a number of officers and men attached - 1st Airborne got 12, 82nd got 11, 101st got 5 and Corps HQ got 3.
You're right about the No. 2 (Dutch) Troop, 10 (Inter-Allied) Commando, but Captain Arie Bestebreurtje was the JEDBURGH team leader of team 'CLARENCE' that landed in the 82nd area. The JEDBURGH mission was to work with the local resistance, while the Commando sections were split up as translators and guides for the division's sub-units. The one book I have on this is Orange Blood, Silver Wings - The Untold Story of the Dutch Resistance During Market Garden, by Stewart W. Bentley, Jr. (2007). I have a separate reference for the Commandos, which is an Osprey book on No. 10 Commando.
There was an extended version of "A Bridge Too Far" that was shown on US TV at least once, split over two nights, probably around 1980. The main differences I recall were the capture of the Grave bridge and additional scenes of the 82nd fighting in Nijmegen as they attempted to reach the bridge. There were some publicity stills from the time of the film's original release that depicted action not seen in the film. I was pleased to discover they were from this additional footage. I've never seen this footage again, and I really wish it would appear on some future blu-ray release.
I worked with a XXX Corps veteran in the early 1980s. That old boy hated A Bridge Too Far! To quote him 'when we got to the Nijmegen bridge, we were about 3 hours behind schedule. And the Yanks hadn't bothered taking the bridge! They were the ones sitting around except they were drinking coffee!'
The more research I've done, the more I've found that asserts xxx corps were doing well for time when they actually arrived at Nijmegan. The delay seems to have been the 82nds lack of movement to do much of anything to take the bridge before 2nd army arrived. General Gavins inaction is just baffling. Especially as he changed his story after the war, it's hard to know what he was thinking of.
before 740 men had even arrived at the last intact bridge in Arnhem area (rail bridge 4 miles/6k from LZ Z), 82nd had captured the 500m bridge north of Grave and the last intact bridge over the Maas Waal canal and the Heights for Brownings' useless HQ brought in by 38 of 1st AB's gliders, capacity about 1,000 infantrymen. when scout cars of XXX Corps arrived at Grave at 0820 on day 3 they were still 28 miles/40 k (on current maps) from Arnhem, well over 1/3 the distance from Joes Bridge to Arnhem with 11 hours to sunset. on day four Frosts' men ran out of food, ammo and water.
@@phillydelphia8760 XXX Corps vanguard got there ahead of the parameters set only to find the bridge still in German hands at both ends. Had the 82nd not seemingly forgot the very reason they were transported to the NL for, namely to take and to hold the bridge at both ends then XXX Corps could have crossed and likely made the 8 mile slog to Arnhem Bridge. Many are not aware that at the time the 82ND were arriving on their DZ's there were only about two dozen Germans defending the bridge!
@@Scaleyback317 pretty much what I've been learning in detail. They seemed to forget one of their biggest objectives entirely and ran around doing everything else but approach the bridge in any kind of force. Considering the 82nds previous exploits and achievements, including Gavin himself. It just makes no sense at all. Granted, the bridge would no longer be contested by Frost and his men by the time they got there. But the Oosterbeek pocket was still holding strong, and would likely have done even better if the Germans were forced to turn around and deal with the approaching 2nd Army. There's always something new to learn or consider about this whole operation! Edit: spelling 🙄
On Hardy Krueger and his role in the Yugoslav epic "Battle on Neretva": Hardy Krüger has often said he wanted to present “a good German” to the world through his acting. His popularity in these roles (like in “The One That Got Away”, 1957), made him an obvious choice for the role of Colonel Kränzer in the Yugoslav epic. Made to glorify the revolution while aiming for the international market, the screenplay for “Neretva” had to be carefully balanced. Worn-out stereotypes and open propaganda would simply not do with the foreign public. Bulajic therefore decided to introduce a character role for the Germans in the Partisan films for the first time. This would add an interesting new level to the plot and deflect possible criticism of the film as overt propaganda. In short, Krüger plays a “good bad guy”, Colonel Kränzer, a decorated field officer leading his men from the front. In stark contrast to the officers from other films of the genre, he is not callously wasting the lives of his soldiers. For example, he is being rather hesitant to allow his young adjutant to lead an attack on the Partisans, much to the dismay of the former. His care for the ordinary soldier is evident when he tells an exhausted courier to “go get some warmth at the field kitchen.” Kränzer reaches a catharsis during the climactic scene at the end of the movie: as Germans move ever closer to the Partisans’ main hospital, he hears the wounded sing a popular folk song “Padaj silo i nepravdo” (“Down with Force and Injustice”) while shells rain down on them. He realizes that such an enemy can simply not be defeated, and directly disobeys Lohring who is ordering him forward at all costs. The impeccably dressed Lohring phoning from his salon-like headquarters stands in clear contrast to Kränzer’s worn out uniform, dirty face and shoddy command post. After seeing the projection, Tito allegedly commented that he especially liked Hardy Krüger “although he was playing a German colonel.” On A Quest For “A Good German”: The Portrayal Of Germans In Yugoslav War Movies, JIPSS 5/1 (2011), 80-81
With Kruger in the Battle of Neretva it does depend on which version you watch. In the English dubbed short version, he's a growling, snarling nasty SS commander. In the longer version in Serbo-Croat his role is expanded and more nuanced - as indeed you say. The same applies to Franco Nero's Italian, with a difference in versions. The group most tuned into villains are the Royalist/Chetniks, although understandable as it came out during the Tito years
James Coburn as Gavin! The scene driving down the road before XXX Corp attack gives a better feel for the scale of a major offensive than any other scene in any film anywhere. The rolling barrage is fantastic although I suspect the first units up the road would be recce vice the tanks. Parachute drop is dramatic, however, combat drops were made from around 800 feet to minimize time in the air. However, safety considerations just wouldn't let you do that in training or for a film.
In the movie they jumped from about 1000 - 1200 feet. Most jumps were done by British paras. Fresh from Northern Ireland were they lost some comrades. Several accidents happened during the shootings of these scenes but "that was all in the game". 3% injured in a jump was (maybe still is?) normal for them.... I was an extra during all the mass scenes with the landings. They jumped sometimes 2 or 3 times in one day. We stayed 16 to 20 hours in those fields. Like in a real army: 95% of the time was waiting, 5% action.
@@ce17ec Some. Believe there was a lot of film from training jumps that had been worked on. Pretty sure I've seen a lot of the footage elsewhere. They probably did the close up scenes going out the door. Bet there is a book on making the film.
@@davidpf043 Don't think so. In the movie I can recognise the backgrounds in all mass jump scenes. They used two large locations near Arnhem (Terlet) and Apeldoorn (Garderen). Some jumps were used for different locations in the movie. And they used many camera's at the ground and in the air. On the ground we were with ca. 500 till 1500 extra's running around with parachutes, weapons etc. That's not something you can do in a studio. Maybe some of the close ups, but even then. Ryan O'neal and Peter Faber jumped from a tower crane right in front of the camera on the heather of Terlet airfield. Very sure about that. I was one of the first extra's right behind them....
@@ce17ec Wow. Where did they get all the C-47s? I'm impressed. Judging based on when I did my jump training and we did first static line from 2400 or so. They just looked high to me. Might be camera and distance effect that makes it look higher than it was. Thanks for the info!
@@davidpf043 C47 / DC3 were not that rare in those days. If I remember well they had 9 planes rented from several countries and companies. Altough CGI was non existend in those days, they used other analogue technics to multply the image. So that they filled the air with planes, but in reality it were the same 9 many times.
Back when the film was released, I recall seeing or reading an interview with Attenborough where he described his film as "a cry from the heart" against war.
Cheers Woody great vid I’ve not seen A Bridge Too Far since I was a kid so just got my hands on it so will watch at the weekend with a bottle of red can’t wait.
@josephinekush5056 WAS THAT THE OSCAR PETERSON -scored The Silent Partner heist film ? Oscar s 1 of my fav pianists, along w Phineas, but Gould is not; 2 humpty dumpty. There s an Oscar coin now in the new Castroland, btw. Ke3p on truckin ...
Very much enjoyed this, Paul. I rewatched the film after coming back from Arnhem and as much as I love it, and it was so fundamental in my journey as you suggest for us all, it’s just full of nonsense from start to end.
Pretty good review of a film that's grown a lot on me over the years. I do like describing it as an anti-war film, insomuch as there is an older generation of folks that enjoyed war films that were a bit more positive and uplifting, and less critical of events in the war. Its easier to explain to the uninitiated how much better ABTF is about showing the horror and destruction of war alongside the great feats being accompished on our way to ultimate victory (and the juxtaposition of the fanfair-like theme just underscores that dichotomy). And that very last scene of the dutch family walking away as refugees from the utter destruction of their home and family (as we never find out what happens to her husband, but...given the destruction around them). Highlights for me of the film are the first advance into Holland, especially the rolling barrage at the start, I cant think of a single film that shows the absolute dread the Germans probably felt as that rolling barrage crept up and rolled right over them. And yes, seeing the real jumps, and the quality of the shots capturing that are just brilliant, and kinda set the bar for any similar shots in the future (Band of Brothers literally copies this, but with CGI). Also, how they show just how difficult Johnny Frost's men had holding out at the bridge is really good. Its a very very British film, in terms of sensibilities, and yes, it means its an infinitely more quoteable film (and that's an American saying this lol). I am curious about the postwar criticism of Gen. Gavin, and how some hesitation on his end allowed the Germans to take Nijmegen and put on a stronger defense. I dunno, that's a side story I like to know more about (that they didn't cover in this film, but I get it, they cant hit on every aspect of that battle in just one film).
I still think if in the penultimate scene with Connery & Bogarde if according to Airborne lore, Urquhart gave Browning a right hander. Having said that the scene is very powerful.
Re Bittrich In 1953, after eight years in prison, Bittrich was acquitted of war crimes by a French court. Bittrich was accused of ordering the execution of 17 residents of Nimes in France. During the trial, it emerged that Bittrich had never issued such an order. Bittrich had even taken disciplinary action against the soldiers who carried out the execution.
There is zero connection between the error of judgments of Chariot and Arnhem. A lack of specialist troops was not a problem for OMG at all. Plenty of undeployed Airborne units available
Geoffrey Hinsliff aka Don Brennan in Coronation Street who passed away yesterday played a wireless operator in the film. Paul, I've not watched this word from you yet but before I do I think it's a great movie. I hope you don't change my mind!
Let's be honest! A Bridge too Far has turned into a super interesting and good war film. Many famous actors, action, tanks, Holland and an epic. It's a shame that the Battle of Berlin was never filmed at this level. Great video.
Edward Fox as Horrocks is my favourite portrayal of a historical figure. The two men knew each other, so Fox spent a summer with Horrocks to capture his style of delivery
the back and forth between Fox and Caine is amazing
Me too. I've read and watched nearly everything Horrocks produced and dug into a lot of 30 Corps primary sources but I still half see Fox when I think Horrocks.
Fox, besides being a marvelous actor, also perfectly embodies the quintessential attitude of a British Cavalry officer as well as the British gentleman that he is. His style of delivering the 'Just in time is soon enough' proved to be somewhat prophetic.
In reality and despite German unplesantness at Son and Veghel, XXX Corps made it within hours of the original time schedule of Market Garden to contact with 82nd Airborbe at Grave. Only to then have, for lack of the Nijmegen bridges being captured, to dedicate itself to a fight it was not intended for; Fighting through the urban and SS-infested hellscape of Nijmegen for the better part of three precious days. After that the fight turned into one with Gen. Gavin and Browning, who both stated that XXX Corps had shown up too late to make the difference. This was not the case. The Cavalry was fashionably in time.
I enjoy all your podcasts including this one thanks. Did you miss speak you said bridge too far was the first time Germans spoke German and I think it was famously done in the longest day cheers
I think the sequence on the day of the jump starting when they get out of bed in the music builds and they show Trooper after Trooper going out of the plane with the static lines hanging to the trip down stunning
Those James Caan scenes (Staff Sergeant Eddie Dohun) make this film stronger. It emphasizes the suffering of the wounded fighting soldiers and officers. PTSD was also highlighted in the Hospital Scene. Ask a 19 year old what he thought was the strongest and most memorable moment of A Bridge Too Far and there is a good chance that he will mention the James Caan scenes. It was also unclear to me for years whether his US captain was dead or whether he was still alive...? Powerful scene, I can't say anything else and it fits very well into the film. but perhaps more of these kinds of "personal" scenes should have been included. The best greetings of a fan.
I remember my Mum & Dad taking me to watch this at the Pictures. My Grandad had died just before, one of the things I still have are his Sergeants Stripes, his Glengarry (1st Royal Scots) and a copy of Cornelius Ryan's book. I must Say Connery was brilliant in this film, especially in his last scene with Dirk Bogarde the way he looks down at his smock and the small shake of his head when asked if he wants to change. I always get emotional when the sihouetted figures appear on the river bank as they are evacuated. My son served in 1st Btn Irish Guards and my Mum lived next door to Michael Caine's Auntie on The Lawson Estate so another little connection.
Great show, Woody; can’t argue with any of your opinions. BTW, as an 82d vet, was privileged to participate in the daily Nijmegen memorial bridge crossing earlier this year, in honor of the men killed in the assault crossing of the River Waal on this day in 1944.
Thanks for a terrific show on a movie that I’m sure gave so much pleasure to us school kids in the 1970’s. We were fortunate to grow up in an era of classic war movies. Made by and large by people who had lived through that war. I’m reminded of the story William Goldman tells of going to dinner with John Frost. And him begging him to take out the surrender scene on the bridge. Goldman wanted to pump up Frost as much as possible and make him the hero of the movie. But Frost didn’t want that. He knew the real heroes of Market Garden were buried in Holland. And Goldman realised he had been treating Frost as a fictional character in his script and not a real person. That to me shows the character of that generation. These people fought to defeat Nazi Germany because they knew it was the morally right thing to do. They didn’t do it for glory or personal prestige.
´morally right thing to do´.
Yeah look whappened to the West after WW2.
lost count how many times myself and my brother watched this with our Grandad, along with longest day, the dirty dozen Kelly's heroes etc. love them all and I think this was my Grandads way of telling us about WW2 as kids because like many other WW2 veterans he didn't speak about it
"A Bridge too Far" was one of the last films I watched before I graduated from High School and enlisted in the Army. I still remember being thrilled with the epic scenes of the air drops and combat depicted in the film. This was before I really knew about the true cost of battle as I discovered later in my life. After I read Cornelius Ryan's book I did notice the artistic license taken with the film. Looking back on it I clearly see the slightly anti-British mood throughout form the beginning. The acting overall was very well done, despite some of the miscasting. One must remember that actors take on roles for employment and have no, or little control over the script. I will always look upon this film as a classic, well deserving of the praises heaped upon it. I try to watch it at least once a year, if nothing else but to hear those many quotable scenes that Woody mentions. My favorite was General Horrock.s (Edward Fox) at the briefing: "This is a story that you'll tell your grandchildren about! And mightily bored they'll be!" Such typical British understatement right from the start. PS: Please do support WW2TV on Patreon if you can. It is well worth the money.
Slightly? Are you attempting to adhere to the British reputation for understatement?
@@Scaleyback317 I am certainly referring to the British reputation for understatement. I hope I didn't offend, but I have noticed the distinct difference between British and American humor over the years. I cherished the differences as I watched such programs as Monty Python and Benny Hill. I noticed such a propensity as far back as when I studied the works of Chaucer and Shakespeare in high school. I am endeared to the difference and if adherence is what you ask, than I am guilty. I truly mean this as a high complement to the people from which my native tongue originated. Cheers.
@@davidlavigne207you might enjoy Phoenix Nights one of the best comedy series ever. And Dad’s Army
Hardy Krüger in March 1945, HJ member Krüger was drafted into the 38th SS Division Nibelungen.
Mr. Kruger was a noble German who often got these kinds of German soldier roles. But Karl Otto Alberty and Preiss surpassed him.
As an SS soldier, Hardy avoided his own execution thanks to an SS officer who took pity on him. And later he declared himself anti-Nazi.
One of Arnhem's unsung is actor, broadcaster, correspondent & singer, Stanley Maxted. Born in England but raised almost from infancy in Toronto, Ontario, Maxted, seconded to the BBC from the CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation) reported from the front during Market Garden & created live recordings during the battle @ Arnhem. He played himself during the 1946 filming of, There's Was the Glory. (His lack of a British accent is quite noticeable.) Maxted stated many times both publicly & privately, that one of the most memorable experiences of his long career was to hear the familiar sounding voices of the Canadian engineers as they shouted instructions to the survivors of the fight as they neared the western bank of the river during the evacuation. Oddly, but then again not, Maxted's reporting, like those efforts of Canadian engineers are hardly mentioned. While not directly related to the film A Bridge Too Far, I post the above because most fellow Canadians following this fine series are almost totally ignorant of these contributions to the Market Garden story. Particularly Maxted.
The soundtrack is amazing - it really conveys the optimism at the start but then reality takes over. It's really well used in the film especially when the destruction of Arnhem and the effect on the civillians is shown. There's a scene where the doctors are driving through Arnhem and you can Laurence Oliver is just looking at the destruction with the score in the background.
I agree with you on Ryan O'Neal. I remember a quote from a critic at the time. He said "follow Ryan O'Neal into battle? I wouldn't follow Ryan O'Neal into the men's room".
Rhino Neil was great in Peppa Pig.
@@flashgordon6670Sounds like they should’ve asked you! You seem to have all the answers anyway - sorry you got passed over by such undeserving characters
Ryan O'Neill was massively hyped in the mid 1970s, for a brief time he was a huge star. But people seemed to notice he was only average.
Wish they'd done the same with Tom Cruise and left that ham in the 1970s.
@@lllordllloyd Aw, come on. Leave poor Tom out of this - pick on someone your own size.
Even then there were a lot of stories going around about Ryan O'Neal enjoying the Dutch pleasures and not being very sober on the set. But he was nice towards the extras, I can say out of my own experience. He was approachable and talked between the takes with us...
Gene Hackman is one of the best character actors ever.
yep loved him in french connection 1 and 2
rReally a great show again. The James Cain scene to me is about loyalty and giving your word... overall one of the best movies about WWII.
I remember having a few drinks with ‘Shan’ Hackett, in the Adelphi Hotel in Perth. He had just released his book on WW3. He was a brigadier with the paratroops dropped on Arnhem, was badly wounded in the battle and his life was saved by a German doctor. Later he was rescued by the Dutch resistance, nursed back to health and able to escape toAllied lines. He was charming company and, over numerous beers, recalled what he could of the battle most vividly. He regarded it as ‘ a bit of a disaster’, as I recall. Like my dad, he received 2 DSOs.
My favorite. Great ensemble cast, memorable scenes and dialogue, practical effects, and a real effort towards historical accuracy wherever possible.
I'm 75 and the oldest son of a British para. Back in 2001 we visited with one of my Dad's comrades who was one of Frost's men. We spent most of the day with them..He was my Dad's Drill Sergeant. I really appreciate this as it has brought back memories of that day. My Father and I would regularly attend the Arnhem dinner in Sydney, each year with the British High Commissioner in Australia. Thinking of my Dad and his comrade today.
@@flashgordon6670 yes, the St. Nazaire raid was massively costly. It was March 1942. I don't think anyone was thinking about MG back then.
Thank you so much for this. In 1977 some parents took their sons to watch Star Wars, my Dad took me to see "A Bridge Too Far." It had a huge influence on me and does still. But it's really great to have this discussion to add so much to the experience while watching it all over again.
Agreed! I was a Star Wars kid but must have watched Bridge with my Dad (8 Corps bag carrier's assistant) three or four times. Always good having a veteran as movie critic. 😊
I went into the city on my own to see Star Wars at 13 , and Dad took me to the Drive In. Dad had a handlebar moustache and was drinking long necks in the car . He was the same generation as the actors.I think I fell asleep near the middle
And thanks for all the work you put into this channel on WW2. For me that war is not a abstract thing from the past. My father fought at Tobruk in 1941 and was awarded the DCM for exceptional bravery during the May 4th battle on hill 209. So I know the character and quality of a lot of the people you talk about on your channel.
Thank you for taking the time to reply to my comments, love WW2TV
Perhaps the only big budget film that showed the massive Fist the British Army was in 1944/45 on the continent, all the major allied Tank actions were on the British / Canadian axis of advance. The Music for the film is brilliant.
I had 4'uncle's who was in this rade an only 2came out so that's why this oldswet my self an EX'PARA is jumping in this wkend like thay all did bk 80yrs ago!! So hopefully see u all there!!? We will remember them!! Green on mucker from a oldswet my self an ex'service AB ALL THE WAY BROTHER FROM A EX'PARA!! Top channel guy's keep this up n rolling out 😊
Barry Norman, eat your heart out! Great analysis Woody!
I love the scene where General Joe van der ler (caine) drives down the road filled with shermans on a humber staff amoured car-pure panzer leader from the front stuff
Woody you so should have had me on for this. I could have offered so much context.
Always love hearing your thoughts Woody.
100% Rolls Royce channel and content , the go to channel for WW2 coverage and deep dives into it
Thanks very much
I’ve learned more about WW2 from you and your guest than from any other source. Incredible topics ( some very obscure and some forgotten but important in the overall scheme of winning the war). I’ve ordered books your guests discuss because I trust your guests to be the very best subject matter experts. Your guests tell it like it is- pull no punches and have opened me up to more critical thinking about WW2. Keep doing this important work Woody.
There is yet another great YT channel on WW2: 'World War Two' week by week
Market-Garden reminds me of Yamamoto’s plan for the Battle of Midway. Complicated and it requires the enemy to react and behave as you want them too
Yep, that's a fair point
Watch the other video in this Arnhem series implying that the Soviet's employed their agents to tip the Germans off about 'Market Garden' in order to give themselves an easier time in the east
@@stephenchappell7512 I suspect the Luftwaffe could see a build up, and the Germans captured the entire plan about an hour into the first drop. Conspiracies aren't required.
I moved to the Netherlands a few years ago....the bridge in the movie is Deventer bridge...the Arnhem bridge was destroyed ...i actually live close to a lot of where it wax shot ...the scene where a jeep is racing through the woods with a injured soldier is the white castle behind my house....my mother in law remembers all the movie stars around the town...
A little correction: the Arnhem bridge was not an option because of some high rise new building near the bridge. The present bridge is an almost 100% copy of the original. It was rebuild shortly after the war based on the original plans. The forest scene was filmed near Jachtslot Mookerheide, indeed a white "castle". Was myself an extra in the movie for a number of days in the summer of 1976. I have so many special memories at that adventure ...
I remember one of the contemporary reviews of the film said Ryan O'Neal looked less like a soldier than like someone who was about to ask, "Tennis, anyone?" :)
Noting the comments about the absence of Montgomery in this movie, did you notice in Patton, you never saw Eisenhower? BTW, saw this movie when it came out - I was 15. Still enjoy it. And I admire that the Dutch people have not forgotten what the Allies did to liberate their country.
One advantage of populating the film with recognizable movie stars is that it helped the audience keep track of where things were happening. For example, when they saw Connery, they knew they were watching events at Arnhem, when they saw O'Neal, they were at Nijmegen, Caine was on the road trying to reach Arnhem, etc.
I knew quite a few US paratroopers who were there and met many more as a 101st Airborne soldier in the early 80s, they loved the Dutch and as for the movie it was just that. I belinged to the 82nd division association James Etherton in Detroit and we had paratroopers and glidermen who fought in this. One soldier of the 307th Al Neamith crossed the waal river 3 times ferrying 504th guys over. He uad a way to tell a story in a just a short sentence. Movie can only pack so much in. British did everything they could but the Germans were getting their crap back in order. Maybe if they'd launched a few weeks earlier before the SS arrived it would have been different.
So is war right.
The British actors were great in this movie.
Cheers
@@starioskal
I think there is one issue that is mainly missed when talking about this operation, that is, from early in the war, numerous attempts were made to infiltrate intelligence agents into Holland by SOE, I believe they were nearly all caught, and in some cases forced to feed back information under german control.
I think this was the reason that dutch intelligence was not taken seriously because they had no way of knowing whether the source had been compromised.
@@pauldurkee4764 that was the exactly why British intelligence didn't trust Dutch intelligence. We have the enviable position of hindsight. When talking with the veterans I knew they'd remind you that they believed they'd win the war, but even in the fall of 44 weren't sure. They still had to get into Germany and do their job.
The remake of Thin Red Line may have been the last star studded war movie we’ll ever see
Yep, forgot about that, mainly because apart from the bunker on the hill scene with John Cusack the rest of the film falls flat for me
@@WW2TVOh Woidy, you're a hard man! It was a great film, free of all the garbage that Spielberg tacked onto Private Ryan. And an interesting and respectful rendition of a great book.
I know people like it, but it doesn't work for me
Just watched A Bridge Too Far yesterday.
I find the James Caan scene adds to the film. As a personal vignette
(1) Great video as usual! Thank you! Sharing my thoughts as I watch it... (2) Compacting such a monumental operation on a three-hour movie is a tour de force, which came out superbly, notwithstanding its perceivable shortcomings. (3) Yes, General Urquhart shooting thee German soldier ended up unduly as one of the movie's most memorable scenes. Too shocking to be otherwise, but it could not be left out. Maybe another approach to filming the scene might change this a bit. (4) About the casting, my reservations go to Robert Redford and Elliot Gould. Redford not because any flaw of his own. It's just that I couldn't set aside my memories of his previous acting roles while watchig him acting as an American paratrooper. As for Gould, I think he exaggerated in the characterization of his part, so much so that all I remember is a cigar protruding from his lips. Maybe I'm exaggerating in my assessment here... (5) It would have been amazing if CG was available to upscale the airdrops and glider landings to their actual, gigantic sizes. On the other hand, it costs a small fortune for CG to work really well, that being the reason we see movies in dark shades, desaturated colors, showing mostly night and/or rain scenes, poor coloring and so forth. Just compare Mitchum's and Jürgens's "The Enemy Below" with Hanks's "Greyhound", both great movies, but the first makes for much better watching experience, in my opinion. Anyway, they made the best with what they had to represent Market Garden's airdrops and glider landings, and they did it pretty well indeed. (6) Back to the video...
Ryan O'Neal acts like a loose cannon cop , very "Starsky and Hutch".
Thanks for giving me something to do this weekend…pulling the DVD while watching your commentary. Should be a more enjoyable, in depth viewing.
I couldn’t agree with you more Paul.
Forget some details. One can still watch it over and over again without getting annoyed.
Compared to the horrible “Battle of the Bulge”, this movie holds its own.
Paul,
Thanks for this discussion on the film and I would agree with the points you make. It is true that the film and indeed its stars have become the benchmark for how we think of the Market Garden operation. It is sad that the 'war epic' type of movie is not made anymore and even if it was my view is the current generation of actors could not carry it off effectively!
It is the benchmark for how mistakenly we think of the Market Garden operation. The film is a travesty designed for one thing only - a whitewashing and absolution for those who made a mess of it and that is not Montgomery or Browning as the film would have you believe.
Do some research (without referrel to the book or the film - entertaining but garbage for historical purposes) and then ask if you have been presented with anything approaching truthful concerning the whole affair since the disaster unfolded due to the errors of two men in particular. See if you can identify for yourself who those two culprits might be from deeper research.
It was not Montgomery's plan. Montgomery had the idea (and it could have been hugely effective correctly planned and administered) It was easier for US sources to point fingers and allow Monty to take the popular rap for something which others should have been investigated for but apparently were not.
I think the James Caan scene was more a nod to the book. When Cornelius Ryan wrote his books they told the grand sweeping story of the battles but they also included so many individual personal stories. That IMO is what made them great.
I think it works better in the book, because the book by definition can tell more stories. I just don't think it adds anything to the movie, and as I said, the screen time given to it could have been used expanding the story of one or more of the other characters
@@WW2TV Have you read William Goldman's autobiography? He explains the reasons for including the scene in the screenplay and the negative response it attracted.
I haven't no
I'd rather read two books - the overall sweep and the personal. It's the done thing now to mix the two, but I'm not a fan. The two strands get in each other's way. I'd rather stay with a soldier or unit for a whole narrative and going back to the broad sweep feels like telling my Great Uncle Tom to shut up about his experiences while we discuss what Monty was saying to Browning. That is, pretty rude.
It's still my favourite war movie.
The actor playing von Rundstedt had also played Kesselring in the movie "Anzio" flamboyally, his portrayal totally at variance with the austere personality of the real von Rundstedt. You will see him in the film saying (dismissively) to his assembled staff when one of them assumed Montgomery would lead the attack: 'Not Montgomery, Patton is their best'. Von Rundstedt did make that remark but when in American captivity. When in British captivity he told his captor's that Montgomery was their best. In the film (of course) it sounds as though Patton had the talents to be the Allied Land Force Commander which he did not, he was a superb tank commander, Monty was the master of the battlefield.
30th Corps were not late arriving at Nijmegan they were on time, but US General Gavin had not secured the bridge because (along with Browning) he was diverted to gain hold of the Groesbeck Heights allowing the Germans to re-invest the far side of the bridge so (when 30th Corps arrived) they had to assist 82nd Airborne in capturing the bridge, by the time this was achieved it was too late to save the British paras.
As I wrote below this was an anti-British movie with an American audience in mind. Fine acting undoubtedly, but it was American financed and as Sir Roy Urquhart would say (after he had watched the film) 'it is a travesty'.
First watched this when it was released in Aldershot on a 1977 Saturday afternoon while a lowly JINF at Depot Para. Cinema was packed. Lots of catcalls and laughs from more senior blokes during the jump scenes which were done by personnel from 1 PARA when they recognised someone in a fleeting glimpse. The parachutists wore contemporary (1976 when filmed) pattern Denison smocks and used contemporary parachutes.
Great talk, Woody, loved the "100 donuts" analogy. So true of many military ops. Agree with your assessment; great as a film, some flaws, some negatives in the legacy in misleading audiences about what actually happened during OMG. And very influential that way because movies tend to have so much more impact than books. A ten part series sounds great, you should pitch an agent.
Can't think of anyone else I would rather hear share his thoughts about this film Thanks Woody! For my money, I loved Hackman in this movie.
Love it Woody.
The doctor in the Major Fuller scene was a real person. Brigadier Austin Eager who was the Director of Medical Services at First Allied Airborne Army.
Yes, but given a different name
A Bridge Too Far is a film I love. I've read that Bogarde took issue with his portrayal of Gen. Browning during filming, having known Browning personally, as he was a member of Monty's staff.
i bumped my paetron monthly donation up. i wish it could be more. thank you i'll now go watch a bridge too far.
Thank you very much
Yes, good WW2 film indeed Paul. But just a side note! Mr. Cornelis Mulder is in a scene at the Bitrich HQ as an extra as an SS officer. After the filming, this Mr. Mulder walked through the center of Deventer wearing his SS Hauptsturmfuhrer uniform. He said that he served in the Waffen SS as a corporal from 1941 to 1945 and had now been promoted. He was pulled from the film after 3 days there Attenborough in the summer of 1976.
Informative, insightful, and entertaining classic WW2 movie review. Precisely what I would expect from Woody and WW2TV.😌
Thanks very much
Great show. Agree with all your thoughts. Hope the algorithm corrects and your views pick back up again to the levels you deserve!
Woody well done as usual. I saw the World Premiere of the film in Boston, Mass. Thanks again.
An awesome movie
Also, the Bridge too far movie was shot in 1976. I know for certain, since I was being trained as a National Service tank commander and was tasked to guard the verhicles at the barracks where they were stored.
That's correct. I was an extra in the movie and that summer of 1976 is stil a special memory for me.
I think the James Caan scene is important. I get that it seems a bit out of place with the rest of the film - and your information about how it was filmed kinda explains why that is - but it adds a subtle perspective of the battle - the notion that these paratroops have landed right in among the Germans, resulting in very loose frontlines, small units wandering about and stumbling into the enemy, soldiers getting cut off and having to get back to their own formations. It's the American version of the Connery scenes in Arnhem.
Having said that, after my first viewing of the film, on each successive viewing I've noticed how it sticks out from the narrative. I think it's a great scene in itself, but it just doesn't quite gel with the rest of it.
Best quote - "PANIC!".
Also - best ever theme tune and introduction to the theme tune.
Funny show about a epic movie indeed
Green on mucker lots of memories from a oldswet my self an ex'service AB ALL THE WAY BROTHER FROM A EX'PARA 😊😊!! See u all on the DZ!! Sat.😊
The Longest Day, Von Ryan's Express, etc etc
Von Ryans Express is really well made, a forgotten classic. Anyone reading these comments should check it out. You won't be disappointed.
Never mind Connery and Murphy, i feel the same about you 😜
Nigel Green from Zulu (Colour Sgt. Bourne) would have made a great Browning, unfortunately he died a few years before the movie
What a great review. Cliff ! Didnt know he was in it, I must re-watch this. A 10 part series would be fantastic.
The film had some great highlights...Horrocks speech, the heroic crossing of the 82nd and the last stand of John frosts men at Arnhem bridge etc but it was also not without it's flaws like the scene with Carrington and the tanks of the Guards stopping at the bridge, one of the myths of the battle was that an American paratrooper became enraged that the five British tanks didn't press on to Arnhem after the battle. However, when you look at the evidence, as Robin Neillands shows in his book this exchange simply didn't happen. In fact, the 504th paras on the opposite side of the Waal were happy to see the tanks, and may have even gone off to go fight the Germans, leaving the tanks to guard the bridge head against expected German counter-attacks. There was no way Thirty Corps could press on to Arnhem before they'd tackled the 10th SS Panzer Division at Nijmegen.
I guess you can't argue too much about the tanks/vehicles as they are 'sponsored/provided' by the Military/Countries to support. Different to what Hollywood provides film makers nowadays.
They did a great job portraying the 'struggle' to succeed the operation. The bitterness, the race to the last bridge, the obstacles to overcome.
The same for the scene with the wounded captain, it doesn't add to the overall movie. But it does show those guys losing their comrades or got wounded.
And it is impossible to copy all the actions 1-on-1 ofcourse.
Fun show! Something different between all the serious stuff. Not sure if you saw my final comment: Jack Didden was mentioned in comments on the Edwin Popken video (and I have read some of his work in Dutch) but he's a Dutch historian specialized in Noord-Brabant area (Hell's Highway, Overloon, Pheasant, Schelde etc). He's also published in English on Kamfgruppe Walter, Kampfgruppe Chill, German 15. Army... He might be an amazing guest to have
oh and he's a retired (I assume) English teacher so language should be ok 😉
Yep, I had a brain fart, I have one of his books
This is such a fabulous movie. "Browning becomes the fall guy" in lieu of Monty is a great assessment that I never considered.
Browning had no business being in the position he was for sure but the one who should have been the fall guy (and there was probably more than one who should shoulder the responsibility was neither Browning nor Montgomery. Contrary to popular belief it was not Monty's plan. It was his idea and it was a worthy idea. The villain of the planning was a US General by the name of Brereton, inept and inexperienced in any way of airborne requirements/actions.
It was great entertainment as a work largely of fiction as an historically accurate depiction it fell short in several major aspects. It served the author's wishes to offer absolution of any blame where the blame for the failure of the operation lay -on US heads and for the sake of the targetted audience (USA) skilfully avoided any finger pointing at US entities.
Do your research and you'll see it's the usual whitewashing for US purposes to the detriment of all others especially the British. It just does not hold up to scrutiny.
I agree that Brereton gets off scot-free, and we have talked about him a lot on WW2TV
@@WW2TV Theirs Is The Glory 1946 HD
ruclips.net/video/fiFeYxlPYy4/видео.html
Completely agree with you about the James Caan scene. With the good and the bad, this is still my favorite WW2 movie.
You had people at "Bad"..real event, or Hollywood production....This was a train wreck to start,,,and finished 8 days later as a blood bath...
Far less casualties than the Hurtgen campaign
@@WW2TV how many Brits fought in Hurtgen ?
MG days, Hurtgen months
Sure, it's an apples and oranges comparison, but there are some commenters here who seem to think that American commanders never got anything wrong and that the Brits go from blunder to blunder
@@WW2TV Examine the size of the operation versus casualties...WW1...The Somme,,, Jutland...WW2...Dieppe, Dunkirk, Market Garden...bad luck?? We had Pickett's "charge" and Custer's last stand...just plain stupid??
Great idea for a show Woody. Really enjoyed hearing your thoughts.
I agree with your thoughts about Connery's portrayal of Urqhuart. Connery just seems so rugged, manly, hyper competent, that even if they'd taken pains to explain just how he screwed up, the audience wouldn't have bought it. "No, HE couldn't have screwed up, just look at him. HE must have been doing the right thing. It's someone else's mistake." Haha.
Sasobowski should have been portrayed by a Pole, or at least a European who could do a passable Polish accent. Hackman could then have played Gavin.
I think Robert Redford was perfect for the role he played. My only complaint is that both he and Ryan O'Neal were such American heartthrobs at the time, having them in the same scenes is slightly jarring. I'd have rather Hackman played played Gavin. Someone harder edged but still able to portray empathy would have been better as Gavin. I couldn't picture Ryan O'Neal achieving command of a division by age 37.
Well remembered on The Jazz Singer.
Some of the pushback reflects back to the mistakes in Ryan's source material but I to this day I will watch 'The Longest Day' and 'A Bridge Too Far' any time I have the opportunity. Same goes for 'Tora Tora Tora', 'The Battle of Britain', 'Patton' and 'From Here to Eternity.' As far as miscasting it is hard to top John Wayne in TLD but your 3 choices for Gavin, Taylor and 'Stout/Sink' I think they selected actors who were good draws' and resembled the historical figures more than others. With no CGI they used vehicles to represent the actual vehicles and the audience did not have the minutia critical eye for that sort of thing - it was the story, acting and glorious music.
Check out "They Were Expendable". I retired from Texas to Cavite, Philippines in 2018. This movie really covers a lot of real history - also a lot of invented Hollywood propaganda, but well made and shows the vanishing American cultural presence in the Philippines from that era.
The scene set (I think) in Holland that I witnessed being filmed in Reading, Berks shows an old fashioned terraced street as the Dakotas flew over. I couldn't believe my eyes and it wasn't until I saw the film that I realised what I saw from my dads car was real. The only dodgy thing was Gene Hackmans Polish accent 😅
Just read it. Ryan’s research is brilliant.
On RUclips there is a fantastic documentary called Arnhem Report,It covers the making of the film,interviewing the actors and the real people they play,Urquart,Frost,Kate ter Horst and many more,very well recommended,If you haven't seen It Paul you will love It.
Gene Hackman gets grief for his Polish accent, but in this movie he's doing a dead-on impression of Zbigniew Brzezinski.
Woody, you always crank out tremendous content, but I have very much enjoyed the Arnem material! Thanks!
Glad to hear it, most appreciated
The Dutch officer with General Gavin may well have been from 2 Troop, 10 (Inter Aliied) Commando rather than a Jedburgh team. Each of the airborne divisions had a number of officers and men attached - 1st Airborne got 12, 82nd got 11, 101st got 5 and Corps HQ got 3.
You're right about the No. 2 (Dutch) Troop, 10 (Inter-Allied) Commando, but Captain Arie Bestebreurtje was the JEDBURGH team leader of team 'CLARENCE' that landed in the 82nd area. The JEDBURGH mission was to work with the local resistance, while the Commando sections were split up as translators and guides for the division's sub-units.
The one book I have on this is Orange Blood, Silver Wings - The Untold Story of the Dutch Resistance During Market Garden, by Stewart W. Bentley, Jr. (2007). I have a separate reference for the Commandos, which is an Osprey book on No. 10 Commando.
I've always thought it should have been a trilogy.
There was an extended version of "A Bridge Too Far" that was shown on US TV at least once, split over two nights, probably around 1980. The main differences I recall were the capture of the Grave bridge and additional scenes of the 82nd fighting in Nijmegen as they attempted to reach the bridge. There were some publicity stills from the time of the film's original release that depicted action not seen in the film. I was pleased to discover they were from this additional footage. I've never seen this footage again, and I really wish it would appear on some future blu-ray release.
I worked with a XXX Corps veteran in the early 1980s. That old boy hated A Bridge Too Far! To quote him 'when we got to the Nijmegen bridge, we were about 3 hours behind schedule. And the Yanks hadn't bothered taking the bridge! They were the ones sitting around except they were drinking coffee!'
The more research I've done, the more I've found that asserts xxx corps were doing well for time when they actually arrived at Nijmegan.
The delay seems to have been the 82nds lack of movement to do much of anything to take the bridge before 2nd army arrived.
General Gavins inaction is just baffling. Especially as he changed his story after the war, it's hard to know what he was thinking of.
before 740 men had even arrived at the last intact bridge in Arnhem area (rail bridge 4 miles/6k from LZ Z), 82nd had captured the 500m bridge north of Grave and the last intact bridge over the Maas Waal canal and the Heights for Brownings' useless HQ brought in by 38 of 1st AB's gliders, capacity about 1,000 infantrymen.
when scout cars of XXX Corps arrived at Grave at 0820 on day 3 they were still 28 miles/40 k (on current maps) from Arnhem, well over 1/3 the distance from Joes Bridge to Arnhem with 11 hours to sunset.
on day four Frosts' men ran out of food, ammo and water.
30 Corps should have arrived on the 18th September as per their orders; Operational Instruction No.24.
@@phillydelphia8760 XXX Corps vanguard got there ahead of the parameters set only to find the bridge still in German hands at both ends. Had the 82nd not seemingly forgot the very reason they were transported to the NL for, namely to take and to hold the bridge at both ends then XXX Corps could have crossed and likely made the 8 mile slog to Arnhem Bridge.
Many are not aware that at the time the 82ND were arriving on their DZ's there were only about two dozen Germans defending the bridge!
@@Scaleyback317 pretty much what I've been learning in detail.
They seemed to forget one of their biggest objectives entirely and ran around doing everything else but approach the bridge in any kind of force.
Considering the 82nds previous exploits and achievements, including Gavin himself. It just makes no sense at all.
Granted, the bridge would no longer be contested by Frost and his men by the time they got there.
But the Oosterbeek pocket was still holding strong, and would likely have done even better if the Germans were forced to turn around and deal with the approaching 2nd Army.
There's always something new to learn or consider about this whole operation!
Edit: spelling 🙄
Appreciated your comments Woody. I saw this film in the theater when it first came out. As a teenage boy it made a big impression on me.
I prefer long form it makes the working day go quicker 😊
On Hardy Krueger and his role in the Yugoslav epic "Battle on Neretva":
Hardy Krüger has often said he wanted to present “a good German” to the world through his acting. His popularity in these roles (like in “The One That Got Away”, 1957), made him an obvious choice for the role of Colonel Kränzer in the Yugoslav epic. Made to glorify the revolution while aiming for the international market, the screenplay for “Neretva” had to be carefully balanced. Worn-out stereotypes and open propaganda would simply not do with the foreign public. Bulajic therefore decided to introduce a character role for the Germans in the Partisan films for the first time. This would add an interesting new level to the plot and deflect possible criticism of the film as overt propaganda. In short, Krüger plays a “good bad guy”, Colonel Kränzer, a decorated field officer leading his men from the front. In stark contrast to the officers from other films of the genre, he is not callously wasting the lives of his soldiers. For example, he is being rather hesitant to allow his young adjutant to lead an attack on the Partisans, much to the dismay of the former. His care for the ordinary soldier is evident when he tells an exhausted courier to “go get some warmth at the field kitchen.” Kränzer reaches a catharsis during the climactic scene at the end of the movie: as Germans move ever closer to the Partisans’ main hospital, he hears the wounded sing a popular folk song “Padaj silo i nepravdo” (“Down with Force and Injustice”) while shells rain down on them. He realizes that such an enemy can simply not be defeated, and directly disobeys Lohring who is ordering him forward at all costs. The impeccably dressed Lohring phoning from his salon-like headquarters stands in clear contrast to Kränzer’s worn out uniform, dirty face and shoddy command post. After seeing the projection, Tito allegedly commented that he especially liked Hardy Krüger “although he was playing a German colonel.”
On A Quest For “A Good German”: The Portrayal Of Germans In Yugoslav War Movies, JIPSS 5/1 (2011), 80-81
With Kruger in the Battle of Neretva it does depend on which version you watch. In the English dubbed short version, he's a growling, snarling nasty SS commander. In the longer version in Serbo-Croat his role is expanded and more nuanced - as indeed you say. The same applies to Franco Nero's Italian, with a difference in versions. The group most tuned into villains are the Royalist/Chetniks, although understandable as it came out during the Tito years
Have that film,and its very good. The partisans in Yugoslavia were amongst some of the toughest troops in the war.
Great video! Looking forward to more videos.
James Coburn as Gavin! The scene driving down the road before XXX Corp attack gives a better feel for the scale of a major offensive than any other scene in any film anywhere. The rolling barrage is fantastic although I suspect the first units up the road would be recce vice the tanks. Parachute drop is dramatic, however, combat drops were made from around 800 feet to minimize time in the air. However, safety considerations just wouldn't let you do that in training or for a film.
In the movie they jumped from about 1000 - 1200 feet. Most jumps were done by British paras. Fresh from Northern Ireland were they lost some comrades. Several accidents happened during the shootings of these scenes but "that was all in the game". 3% injured in a jump was (maybe still is?) normal for them.... I was an extra during all the mass scenes with the landings. They jumped sometimes 2 or 3 times in one day. We stayed 16 to 20 hours in those fields. Like in a real army: 95% of the time was waiting, 5% action.
@@ce17ec Some. Believe there was a lot of film from training jumps that had been worked on. Pretty sure I've seen a lot of the footage elsewhere. They probably did the close up scenes going out the door. Bet there is a book on making the film.
@@davidpf043 Don't think so. In the movie I can recognise the backgrounds in all mass jump scenes. They used two large locations near Arnhem (Terlet) and Apeldoorn (Garderen). Some jumps were used for different locations in the movie. And they used many camera's at the ground and in the air. On the ground we were with ca. 500 till 1500 extra's running around with parachutes, weapons etc. That's not something you can do in a studio. Maybe some of the close ups, but even then. Ryan O'neal and Peter Faber jumped from a tower crane right in front of the camera on the heather of Terlet airfield. Very sure about that. I was one of the first extra's right behind them....
@@ce17ec Wow. Where did they get all the C-47s? I'm impressed. Judging based on when I did my jump training and we did first static line from 2400 or so. They just looked high to me. Might be camera and distance effect that makes it look higher than it was. Thanks for the info!
@@davidpf043 C47 / DC3 were not that rare in those days. If I remember well they had 9 planes rented from several countries and companies. Altough CGI was non existend in those days, they used other analogue technics to multply the image. So that they filled the air with planes, but in reality it were the same 9 many times.
Back when the film was released, I recall seeing or reading an interview with Attenborough where he described his film as "a cry from the heart" against war.
@lorencain9551 W H A T A bleeding heart !! (nuff said).
Cheers Woody great vid I’ve not seen A Bridge Too Far since I was a kid so just got my hands on it so will watch at the weekend with a bottle of red can’t wait.
It definitely has the best score of any WW2 film.
I worked with Elliott Gould in Toronto back in 1978. A bit of a ham but overall a nice guy.
@josephinekush5056 WAS THAT THE OSCAR PETERSON -scored The Silent Partner heist film ? Oscar s 1 of my fav pianists, along w Phineas, but Gould is not; 2 humpty dumpty. There s an Oscar coin now in the new Castroland, btw. Ke3p on truckin ...
@@sulevisydanmaa9981 Yep, with Chris Plummer & John Candy in a minor role.
Sorry I missed this live, but loving every part of it now
Very much enjoyed this, Paul. I rewatched the film after coming back from Arnhem and as much as I love it, and it was so fundamental in my journey as you suggest for us all, it’s just full of nonsense from start to end.
Pretty good review of a film that's grown a lot on me over the years. I do like describing it as an anti-war film, insomuch as there is an older generation of folks that enjoyed war films that were a bit more positive and uplifting, and less critical of events in the war. Its easier to explain to the uninitiated how much better ABTF is about showing the horror and destruction of war alongside the great feats being accompished on our way to ultimate victory (and the juxtaposition of the fanfair-like theme just underscores that dichotomy). And that very last scene of the dutch family walking away as refugees from the utter destruction of their home and family (as we never find out what happens to her husband, but...given the destruction around them).
Highlights for me of the film are the first advance into Holland, especially the rolling barrage at the start, I cant think of a single film that shows the absolute dread the Germans probably felt as that rolling barrage crept up and rolled right over them. And yes, seeing the real jumps, and the quality of the shots capturing that are just brilliant, and kinda set the bar for any similar shots in the future (Band of Brothers literally copies this, but with CGI). Also, how they show just how difficult Johnny Frost's men had holding out at the bridge is really good. Its a very very British film, in terms of sensibilities, and yes, it means its an infinitely more quoteable film (and that's an American saying this lol).
I am curious about the postwar criticism of Gen. Gavin, and how some hesitation on his end allowed the Germans to take Nijmegen and put on a stronger defense. I dunno, that's a side story I like to know more about (that they didn't cover in this film, but I get it, they cant hit on every aspect of that battle in just one film).
Well done Woody!
Thank you for the content.
I still think if in the penultimate scene with Connery & Bogarde if according to Airborne lore, Urquhart gave Browning a right hander. Having said that the scene is very powerful.
Re Bittrich
In 1953, after eight years in prison, Bittrich was acquitted of war crimes by a French court. Bittrich was accused of ordering the execution of 17 residents of Nimes in France. During the trial, it emerged that Bittrich had never issued such an order.
Bittrich had even taken disciplinary action against the soldiers who carried out the execution.
True, but only because they didn't bother to prosecute him for alleged crimes in Poland etc too. They thought the French case was sufficient
There is zero connection between the error of judgments of Chariot and Arnhem. A lack of specialist troops was not a problem for OMG at all. Plenty of undeployed Airborne units available
I love this movie, watch it once a year. For a feature film, it is very objective and accurate, although with some errors.
Geoffrey Hinsliff aka Don Brennan in Coronation Street who passed away yesterday played a wireless operator in the film.
Paul, I've not watched this word from you yet but before I do I think it's a great movie. I hope you don't change my mind!