Belle Gunness: Lady Bluebeard & The Murder Farm
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- When the Altic Farm House, on the outskirts of La Porte, Indiana burnt down in 1908, locals thought it a tragedy that claimed the lives of three children and their heroic mother, who had died trying to protect them from the flames. During the excavation of the debris, the story flipped on its head as far more than the 4 bodies expected were eventually found. Butchered and cast into pits they were victims of Belle Gunness, a woman the newspapers would come to call the La Porte Ghoul, The Indiana Ogress, The Human Vampire, Hell’s Princess & Lady Bluebeard.
SOURCES:
Schechter, Harold. (2018) Hell’s Princess: The Mystery of Belle Gunness, Butcher of Men. Little A, New York.
Billings, John. (1896) Report on Vital and Social Statistics in The United States at the Eleventh Census: 1890. Government Printing Office, Washington D.C.
‘Crime Reigns for Month’, (1902, December 22), The South Bend Tribune, Indiana. p.1.
‘Mystery in Sudden Death’ (1902, December 24), The Weekly Sentinel, Fort Wayne, Indiana. p.10.
‘Killed by Sausage Grinder’ (1902, December 20), Chicago Tribune, Chicago, Illinois. p.7.
‘Family May Have Met Death In Fire’ (1908, April 28) The South Bend Tribune, South Bend, Indiana. P.1.
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Music was recorded by me © Ben Cutmore 2017
Other Outro music was Paul Whiteman & his orchestra with Mildred Bailey - All of me (1931). It's out of copyright now, but if you're interested, that was that.
An “accidental death with a sausage maker” sounds as suspicious as “fell down an elevator shaft onto some bullets”...
It’s a real doozy of a sentence in and of itself.
Once there was a Dutchman, his name was John Quebec...
I’ve a feeling the very fit Belle dropped it on his head
It 'fell on his head', he didn't go through it
I actually grew up like 10 minutes from this farmhouse. Crazy how something so sinister happened so close
I don't think she necessarily escaped. My thought is that she WOULD rather die than have to face her crimes, and as well she wouldn't want to live life without murder. She was leaving the money behind, and her money and property were her bait.
Of course, I don't know what amount of money she had stashed away outside the bank. Do we actually KNOW she wore dentures? The police chief had interacted with her on numerous occasions regarding lamphear, and he didn't ever notice? It must have been a superb job. It seems a bit arbitrary to me that the entire skull would burn minus two rooted teeth. If she had fled with a large sum of cash, how much would it take to get the dentist to drop a statement that she wore dentures, knowing that there was a set she had pulled out of a victim which would be found somewhere in the ashes? Or maybe she just happened to pull a closely matched set out of a victim at some point over the years. I'm skeptical that she would involve a knowing accomplice, but I guess I can accept an escape plan that requires one bribe. That actually makes the scenario more likely than a crooked cop story, which would have required that the chief corrupt both a miner and a dentist.
I guess, in summary, I'm a fence sitter as well. Whatever the post script, it seems to me that the dentist was probably inaccurate, whether intentionally or not. It was certainly a time when less was known about forensic science, and modern fire investigations still face immense difficulties for a variety of reasons.
I found it a bit comical how long Bella's stories were accepted by the community. It was a different time, and in this respect it was nearly unimaginably so.
It's my first time hearing this story... it's basically a season of Fargo.
Hit the nail on the head with the Fargo comparison. Could see a younger Kathy Bates playing the lead. That said, I think the dental work is a bit of a red herring and it was a mistake for the defense to allow the case to get hung up on that.
Rather he should’ve worked to establish not only an alibis for Ray in regards to the incident itself - but in the run-up and contrast this with Belle’s actions in the preceding day. You can’t just get kerosene anywhere in those days, there’s only a few ways around there - borrowing it from someone, in which case who? Why hasn’t someone come forward? Hinge on that - and more damningly, the other place is one of the General goods or hardware stores around - who can be asked if Ray bought kerosene in the preceding days and when they’re asked know what one will say? “No, but Belle bought a bunch of kerosene just the other day... as well as toys for her kids, ‘treats’ she said.” This coincides with her getting her will in order on the same day which is so goddamn conspicuously suspicious that it baffles me that this never came up, unless it’s wrong in the historical record.
I think one could probably also establish an alibi for for Ray in regards to the incident itself, if they were living in a more enlightened time as the black lady Liz could perhaps provide one, and more importantly someone who may have seen Ray on the way to or from that Liz’s place could substantiate things.
In my opinion, I think Ray knew more than he was letting on, but I also think I should travel back in time and give him my business card because I think I could get him acquitted like a mf’er.
How did she cut off her own head? She definitely escaped
@@cinivia8840 my thesis is that her head was not removed, and that her death was faked.
Awesome episode! Here's another dark history you could get an episode out of - what really happened to Hitler's niece Geli Raubal? Did she really kill herself, or did Hitler kill her (or have her killed)?
Oh blimey, I've never heard that! I'll be going to look this up now for my sunday evening reading haha! Thanks so much!
Incredible, horrible and excellently told story!
Ok I do understand that this took place many MANY decades, however “couldn’t tell the difference between a jaw of a human or an animal!” WHAAAAAAAT THE ACTUAL FUUUUUCK IS THAT SHOTTY ASS WORK!?!
Oh, Ben, hooray! I wondered if you might cover this case one day. It’s a crazy story considering our perception of women at the time.
Thanks again for your (&HBs) hard work. Hope you have a great week. 👍🌷
See you Saturday.
Brilliantly told as usual... Your research is spot on and love your presentation style. Excellent as always!!
Ben thank you so much I love the stories ,
You make my Monday mornings at work bearable! Thank you so much
*Chicago!!! Irish - North side
GO CUBS - GO !!!!!!!!!*
⚾⚾⚾⚾⚾⚾⚾⚾⚾
(Schooled in Dixie 😔)
Love my Home City of Origination ❤
(County Kerry 🍀)
Yay! Always happy to hear your voice ♡
excellent work!
Wonderfully researched and narrated.👍😊
Wow, I’d read about this story some time ago but I’d forgotten just how much of a conundrum it was, I’m left with some thoughts:
Okay, so I think Ray knew more than he was getting on about Belle’s ‘business’ - just because it wasn’t exactly well-hidden, it’s just that people didn’t care to think about the large Norwegian lady on the farm. She was more or less an outcast and anything that got out about her was from her hired help. When people were FORCED to care about what was going on at the farm, they seemed to catch on pretty quick - the brother of her second husband who - seemingly in possession of an abnormal amount of common sense for that time period - snuck out with his brother’s kid in the middle of the night. The doctor as well knew something was fucky - so much so that he launched into an impromptu game of clue at the inquest. She had a room of the house dedicated to the belongings of gentleman callers that would show up for a bit and suddenly leave. A previous farm-hand that she’d hired quit suddenly. I can see why the townsfolk would be ignorant of the goings-on but not Ray - who seemed at one point to be primed for getting his ass murdered as well, but seemingly dodged that bullet which leads me to two scenarios -
A) Ray was in on it to SOME degree and either cooperated or profited from it to a point, or somehow genuinely managed to get Belle sweet enough to not kill his ass five times over for his antics, or
B) She let him live because she was knowingly grooming him to be the fall-guy in a potential exit-strategy for herself the entire time, slowly turning public opinion against him by getting him arrested - which makes her probably the most fucking devious serial killer I’ve ever heard of because most of the time these people ain’t geniuses - if they get away it’s due to investigatory incompetence and the police make them seem cunning post facto as a way to exculpate themselves of blame.
Additionally, it could be both A and B and a further reason for his survival could also be that despite his seemingly-low appraisal amongst his fellow townspeople he did have undeniably deep roots and his sudden disappearance could not be reasonably explained away with “he went to the world’s fair.” Yet, at the same time she supposedly had ample opportunity to bust a cap in his ass while he was supposedly trespassing and if she killed him could probably cast it as a matter of self-defense without too much trouble and if he DID know something about Belle’s improprieties wouldn’t that just be MORE reason to get rid of him? By all accounts Ray should’ve been pushing up Daisies in the fucking pig pen with the rest of ‘em so that kinda bugs me. Maybe he did know but kept some kind of collateral over her head? Maybe an “I told someone else and if anything happens to me then they know to contact the police and tell them about the cellar and the body-plots” - but if so then conceivably she would’ve had time to attempt some kind of clean-up and presumably wouldn’t be so quick to get the guy arrested. Ray knowing enough to let the cat out of the bag could’ve further contributed to her feeling increasingly cornered and taking that extreme exit. Idk, just his behavior of resignation after the verdict screams “I probably should’ve gotten a harsher sentence.”
That said, I think the dental work is a bit of a red herring and it was a mistake for the defense to allow the case to get hung up on that. Rather he should’ve worked to establish not only an alibis for Ray in regards to the incident itself - but in the run-up and contrast this with Belle’s actions in the preceding day. You can’t just get kerosene anywhere in those days, there’s only a few ways around there - borrowing it from someone, in which case who? Why hasn’t someone come forward? Hinge on that - and more damningly, the other place is one of the General goods or hardware stores around - who can be asked if Ray bought kerosene in the preceding days and when they’re asked know what one will say? “No, but Belle bought a bunch of kerosene just the other day... as well as toys for her kids, ‘treats’ she said.” This coincides with her getting her will in order on the same day which is so goddamn conspicuously suspicious that it baffles me that this never came up, unless it’s wrong in the historical record.
I think one could probably also establish an alibi for for Ray in regards to the incident itself, if they were living in a more enlightened time as the black lady Liz could perhaps provide one, and more importantly someone who may have seen Ray on the way to or from that Liz’s place could substantiate things.
Finally - WHO SAID THAT JENNY WAS ON HER WAY AND THAT SHE WAS HELD UP DUE TO HER HONEYMOON!? Where did that bit of info come from and why is that source not under scrutiny? Did anyone bother to check out that children’s home in Chicago? Y’know what - maybe I was wrong about Hannibal Bellector, maybe this is all due to police incompetence. Sheriff Smutz? More like Sherrif Putz. I don’t for a second believe that was Belle’s body. Her head just wouldn’t fizzle up into nothing - were ALL the heads on the bodies in the house missing? Why wouldn’t a child’s head - which is smaller - turn to ash as well? There should be skull fragments at the very least. I think it’s absolutely damming that she bought those toys for her kids before, that’s a “putting a dog to sleep” kinda thing and from her early history with adoptions, it seems like having a child for her was a selfish thing - a status or self-worth thing. Look what happened to poor Jenny when she came of age. She wasn’t a child anymore, Belle only wanted a child. Like one of those pieces of shit who want a python until they get too big, then dump them in the glades.
I think for her killing her children is something she wouldn’t necessarily WANT to do - but if it came down to her or them then “sorry kids, ya gotta go” and I think for her doing that would’ve symbolized a fresh start rather than a point of finality for herself. I would find it harder to believe that she parted with all of her ill-begotten gains, though we’ll never know how much she (in all likelihood) kept stashed away - people like her, when they’ve built so many lies to get out of hot water the ever more elaborate lies become cathartic - almost euphoric - and they believe that there is no situation that can’t be remedied with a good lie. Those people have to be CAUGHT. They won’t self-terminate until they come down from that high.
People like her don’t read the tea leaves. Their world has to literally crash down around them and it hadn’t done that for her yet. Sherrif Putz sent an innocent man to jail and let a pathologically-lying psychopath fake their own death and go out into the world to no doubt kill again and abuse more children - perhaps while working at a children’s home in Chicago. Or as a nurse or foster parent or orphanage director - that way she gets to “have” her kids vicariously while she lives under an assumed name.
Loved your comment.
Have you ever thought that sheriff Putz cpuldve been greased, so was the doctor investigating death of Mads Sorensen --- and preventing second autopsy?
And dont even start me on death of Peter Guiness , with his nose smashed in and his skull broken in 2 places.
@@maurverngallard4607 Glad someone got something from it, I went through a period after finding this podcast where I left my unsolicited opinions on a few of these episodes, like some very amateur sleuth. It's mostly a self-indulgent thing so I'm glad it was at least entertaining.
Do you think Belle herself might've been bribing them to keep quiet?
Brandon: I am absolutely positive abput it.
After burning Guiness farm to crisp with 2 kids and bunch of corpses , Belle dissappeared into orange sunset with 260,000 USD which is equal to 6.8 million these days.
Sheriff Putz undoubtedly had his pockets greased and so were the bank tellers.
After all, Belle was bringing one " beloved " after next to deposit money into her account.
Apart her " womanly graces" and hefty home made Norwedgian food, she had this scam going where she offered her suitors to invest their money into shares of her farm--- tbey were to become one family, after all--- or so they thought.
Then Belle dispatched the next " beloved" to pig pen--- and went looking for the NEXT one.
If anyone knew anything--- the bank ppl certainly knew that something fishy was going on.
Look up Bella Kiss ( Hungary 1900) and Henry Landru( France 1920).
Same scam, same outcome .
@@brandonp3455 Brandon, I love your comment. Very few people ever sit and think about events like this, and people from the past like I do so I'm into it. I agree with you on Ray. I always felt he had started "prowling" around the farm's hog pen because he was looking for or trying to dig up bones from the men he knew were buried on the farm, as evidence to present against Belle.
Also, the woman, Nelly, who shows up later, Belle's "sister". Hmmm.
Who was telling people that the daughter was coming back? Who informed them that she was as "held up by her honeymoon"?
I've watched a fair few things about belle but I'm definitely gonna listen to this anyway. Loving your work!
Love this channel, found it a week ago. And now listened to nearly if of them
Amazing how this woman killed more people than “jack the ripper “ and yet this is the first time I have, and I imagine most other people, heard of her, and her horrendous and evil crimes. It strikes me that the doctors that carried out the autopsy’s were little more than quacks at best and totally incompetent at worst, the poor man, Ray Lamphire (excuse spelling) was railroaded and should never have been put on trial in the first place, but the Sheriff “had to get his man”. I would bet that Belle got away with it and moved on, she had no qualms in butchering people so wouldn’t have any problems pulling her own two teeth out to plant her denture to be found.
Thanks for sharing this excellent and entertaining story 😀👍🇬🇧🏴
Thank you 😊.
YES!Bed time story time!!!
I just found your channel and I'm loving it! Been binge listening for days!!
this story reminds me of a Patrick McCabe novel called "Emerald Germs of Ireland"
I've always thought that the psychopathic birth mother of the child Rhoda in "The Bad Seed" was based on Belle Gunness. Her name was Bessie Denker.
Super creepy woman, yikes!
It was Belle.