Injecting Power For RGB Pixels
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- Опубликовано: 26 июн 2017
- You will probably need to inject power at some point. It's a simple technique, but not always easy to accomplish. This video shows how to inject power and when you will need to do it.
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If you are new to the channel and want to learn how to do computer-controlled lighting, check out my Beginner playlist: • Beginner RGB Pixels
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Christmas Lighting Forums:
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doityourselfchristmas.com
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www.planetchristmas.com
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Enjoying your series!!!
😍
Love your videos! Keep them up!
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Thanks for this great video. Very helpful! I'm on a couple pixel website forums and always end up more confused by the end of the thread.
Haha. Yeah, I was pretty confused the first year, not quite as bad the second year, then it finally clicked. Glad to be of help! :)
Very helpful. Thank you.
👍
Thank you sir.
My pleasure! Hope that helps.
Hello, love watching your videos, hope your 2020 season went well and the recent winter weather hasn’t caused you too much damage! One quick question, is there a limit on how many power injections you do from the same power supply? All the best!
Thanks! We're great! As many as you need and can create (you may want to use a fuse block/distribution system to get more/fused connections). The main thing is keep the draw on the power supply under 80% of it's rated output.
Great video. Good information. What about a long lead from controller to first pixel. Going from roofline to controller. F amp and power injection?
Thanks! There's a few options depending on distance and what you're working with. You may want to experiment with a few. My preference is a differential receiver at the prop which is easiest once you get past about 20-30 feet. F-Amps are possibilities, but I generally use them to chain props more than a foot apart as pixel-to-pixel distance needs to be small. I've also used Ethernet cable to extend data distance since it handles data better than the normal wiring - don't use it for power though. Then there's multiple power supplies for powering long roofline strings, but there's gotchas with that too.
Thanks for another good video. What kind of cord type do you recommend for doing power injection. Can I use regular extension cords and just add pig tails/solder directly even? What about for data do you use just CAT5 cable? Thanks for any advice you have for me and keep up the great work.
Thanks! First, I try to limit the amount of power injection required by lowering the brightness to 30%. Pretty much any kind of copper wire works for injecting power. I have one run that is greater than 30ft so I use CAT5 for the data line, but normally just use the standard pigtails from Ray.
New subscriber love the content
Thanks! Welcome aboard!
great video big help thanks may need more help
LOL! Let the light be your guide. They will tell you when they need more power.
Enjoying and learning a good bit from your videos as I'm planning to get deeper into pixels for 2022 (got way behind for 2021). Say I have a 12V 750 PS, about how many pixels can I run off of it at about 30% brightness?
The ballpark calculation is 0.06-amps per pixel at 100% white so 100 pixels would use ~6 amps at 100% or ~2 amps at 30%. Actual values will depend on your pixels. You also want to keep the load on a power supply below 80% to allow for some overhead. I know my 350-watt supplies deliver 30-amps max or about 25-amps useable.
I’ve been watching most of your videos and find them to be the most informative. I’ve also been watching other videos as well. I’m trying to do as much research as possible before investing in some of the items. Let’s just say I buy a controller like the F16v3 that has I think 16 ports and build a mega tree with 16 strands of fifty pixels. Could I use 1 port as long as I inject power or would the mega tree take up most of my ports? I seen one guy use all the ports and one guy use half the ports. Which they were using different controllers. This a concern of mine. I really want to do this but if all I can do is run one tree off of one $300 or $400 control box seems to be a bit frustrating. Sorry I tried to fit a lot of information in a short paragraph. Hope it make sense?
No worries. Each port on the F16 supports 1,024 pixels assuming you aren't using any expansion cards. Be sure to check out my F16 video as that may explain some of this. So if someone is using an F16 with 16 strings of fifty, a lot of the capability of the controller is wasted. If you run one string of 800 pixels, then you have 15 additional ports to go crazy with. :) Power injection is hard to grasp for some so they prefer to use the ports. Potato potaato.
Jeff, when you parallel power supply lines to multiple points over the entire length of a long chain of pixel strings, do you get any oscillations between the shared grounds (low side cables)? Multiple ground paths often create noise on the data lines. How do you prevent these shared power and signal ground oscillations when adding power injection? Thanks!
I've done different props different ways. Some with multiple paths back to the power supply and the matrix is essentially a set of railroad tracks on the bottom. If you experience random flashing when you aren't sending any data, it might be a ground problem - or the pixels are bad or allowing moisture into the epoxy.
I am just getting started watching your videos and they are great so far with excellent details. I’m curious if the length of power cord prior to connecting the pixel string has any effect on power drop. ie does the power supply need to be situated right next to the start of a run?
Thanks! Several factors involved, but you can generally go 20-30 feet without problems. I say play with a string to see what you get in terms of results and then ask about adjustments as needed. Plenty of folks in the forums and FB groups to assist. Try not to over complicate it your first year as there is a lot to learn. :)
would love to see this in a diagram to help me better understand the full picture, or maybe laid out on a board?
I talk about power injection in more recent matrix videos: ruclips.net/video/Z-IedCXTfy0/видео.html and here's a web site with diagrams from Spiker Lights: spikerlights.com/pwrinjection.aspx
Hi, in one of your videos I think i saw you with a roll of pixel mounting tape where did you get it from as I can only find 95.5"strips and I want to make a tree twice that hight
Those are called Pixel/RGB Mounting Strips from Boscoyo Studio bit.ly/2rNthSR You can get rolls of them now and cut to length, but you could also put more than one together to make them longer. But yeah, the roll is nicer.
"Let your lights be your guide"... love it.
In response to "How do you know when you need to inject power?" 😀
@@CanispaterChristmas 7:40. It just struck me as very Yoda-like. :)
I'll take it! lol!
to power injecting my ws2812 strip do I just add a neg wire and positive wire from the end of the second set to the 3 set or add a wire from the power supply thank you
Power injection involves adding additional power from the power supply (preferably through an inline fuse to protect everything). So one connection at the beginning of the string and another connection at the end of the string for example. You'll have to figure out what is best for your setup, but the lights will tell you when they need power by not looking as bright as the ones at the beginning of the string.
So i have watched your videos here and in your class and have a question. when running lights for a roof line display that is a total of 240 ft for example. 60 feet on each side of the house (for a square house example) and you have 12v pixels spaced 6in apart from each other, so you have 480 pixels to power. would you run separate power supplies in this situation or would you use 1 power supply and then power inject after every 100 pixels? and if you power inject - how long of wire can you have to run in between each 100 pixels. I guess the power inject scenario im fuzzy on, i get the concept - but having a hard time visualizing how to do it on a large scale for a house or something.
Ken, yes, that is really the problem with power injection - every situation is unique because just about everything impacts whether or not you'll need to inject power. I always advise to let the lights be your guide. Set them up like you would run them in your display (you could do it on the ground first to make it easier to tinker with), but connect them up as close to reality as possible. Run some sequences through them instead of just test patterns. If they look great, no power injection needed. If they look bad toward the ends, then you need to start checking voltages and getting creative. People have told me that 2 power supplies with pixels between is fine, but I haven't seen guidelines so I always advise cutting the positive lead between the two supplies feeding the same string of pixels. Injecting every 100 is also a guideline for running them at 100% brightness. If you cut brightness, you need less power. For example, I have a string of 175 with no power injection running at 50%. Do they dim toward the end? Maybe, but not enough to worry about injecting power. So the power injection technique while fairly easy to explain, is hard to tell someone how to do because it requires some experimentation in each scenario.
I’ve hooked up to power supplies unknowing and had both power cables intact and measured the voltage and was still only 12 volts?
I’ve been having a hell of a time getting my pixels powered but I think it was due to wrong t connectors and me being a noob 😭😭😭
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Hello, love the video. Where do you add fuses? Do you only add when injecting? What size of fuses do I need when using a 12v power supply? Thanks
Thanks! Typically, the controllers are fused on their pixel outputs so you don't need fuses there. If you are injecting power however, there is no fuse so adding one between the power supply and the pixels is recommended. You can use any holder that holds a fuse. There are several varieties out there. Some are made by community members, others are standard automotive fuse holders and some are for marine applications. I try to use the best holder for the job at hand so if I'm only injecting once, a single automotive inline fuse holder is fine. If multiples, I get a different holder. You'll need to calculate or measure the current for yourself to determine the fuse best to use. There may be some experimentation. Typical ballpark is 0.06-amps per pixel running 100% white (100-pixel string pulls roughly 6-amps) however your pixels may be different so know the specs.
Can you run a set of -/+ wires parallel with your lights and "T" into the lights were injection is needed? Or should a new wire from the supply be used for each injection?
The objective of injecting power is to maintain proper voltage all along the string. I do that on my matrix.
Have any suggestion for a power injection wire that needs to run about 100ft to the end of my roof outline. I used a 14g landscape wire initially and I am only getting power to the 150ish pixel and 6v at the 200th, which tells me the wire can't provide 12v over the run.
Hmm. Not really. What brightness are you running on those pixels? You might try dropping the brightness a step or two to see if it clears up the problem. Or bigger wire... maybe some standard solid copper 12g house wiring. It's all an experiment unfortunately.
Hey Jeff thanks for all the vids! How would I go about power injecting from a new power supply with x connect? I know I need to separate the V+ between the two power supplies, but how would you do that? I have the x connect T's, but it would send the V+ both directions unless for some reason those x connect T's separate within that junction
I wasn't thinking straight, but going to reply here anyways to the solution per the vendor I got them from on their website (doh!):
"All three legs have all like conductors spliced in the middle. There are no breaks in the lines. If you want to create a break, it is best to pull a pin out to create a break."
Or just cut the positive on the pixels in the middle of the string. You basically don't want the positives of 2 different power supplies connected. Any way you accomplish that is fine.
So, basically the only channel important from the controller is the data channel?
The plus and ground can be gotten straight from the trafo?
If that is the case it helps a lot since most controllers only manage 5 amps, which if you try to get all the amps thru there, make 5 volt systems useless.
The goal is to keep current going through the board to less than 5 amps. There are several ways to do that. One is completely bypassing power distribution on the board. Another is using power injection along the string. Another is lowering brightness. 5V strings need more power injection than 12V strings, but you can get strings long enough on either voltage. For example, I have 4, 300-node strings on my 12V megatree. I inject power every 100 nodes and run them at 30% brightness. That keeps current through the fuse below 5 amps. For the demo, I bypassed completely, but I don't do that in the display any more and use power injection and brightness to manage current flow.
Hello
For each strand you inject powerto, do you have to use a new different wire that comes from the PSU to the strand of light or can you run one line parallel that connects to all of the strands?
It is best to inject with a new wire, but always check the voltage at the end of the string before injecting power as you may be able to skip a string. For example, I run 4 sets of 300 (3 strings of 100) on my tree and only inject at the 300 point as there is sufficient voltage at the 100 and 200 point. The lights will tell you when they need power by looking dull or not working at although it could also be a signal problem so best to check voltages.
Thanks for your response. So to confirm, if I have 3 sets of lights that all need power injection, I would run three separate wires from the PSU to each set of lights? Is it not possible to use only one wire for to inject three separate spots?
@@JGFAM You can try using one wire in parallel, but it's best to use 3 separate wires. I'd say try one, if that doesn't work, add two more. Power injection requires a little bit of experimentation. :) Maybe try going to the last one first to see if that fixes the problem then work your way back toward the controller. You may find that one at the end takes care of it.
Your comment at the 5 minute mark about not connecting the positive sides of two power supplies together. Are you able to provide an example of this?
If you have two power supplies sitting next to each other, don't connect the positives to each other. There is another comment in here about having pixels between two power supplies, but no guidance as to how many are needed to provide protection so I just say don't do it.
How do you plug in the pixels to the controller and to the Power injection
Power injection is done by adding additional wires from to the same power supply to the pixels. I solder them onto the wires carrying power on the pixels.
if im running 300 pixels and adding power injection what size awg power is best or recommended to each 100 pixel sections.
If the distance between the PS and the pixels is short, I usually go with 16ga. Every hundred may not be needed so check voltages before adding power. If you cut the brightness to 30%, you may only need it at the end. Let the pixels tell you when they need more power before adding a bunch until you get a better feel for it.
What gauge of wire is good to use for power injection? I am doing house outlines with a total of approx 800 nodes and a singing face with 380 and another with 100. All 12v. Will one ps be sufficient if so how do you take the wire from the ps to all points of injection no more than 100? My singing face with 380 I will need to inject approx 3 times.
Love the channel!
Thanks! Distance, string length and brightness all affect what you'll need so you'll have to experiment a bit. You can usually go 100 12V nodes with no issues. Stay under ~80% of the max current capability of the power supply. So a 30-amp supply means about 25-amps useable. I'd start with 18AWG or better and see how that works (depends on what you already have). "My singing face with 380 I will need to inject approx 3 times." Probably true for 100% brightness. I did my large 280-node wreath with only power at both ends this year and it was fine at 30% brightness. So it's a balancing game and let the lights be your guide. Try with no power injection first then add as needed. Start injecting at the end and work your way back to the beginning of the string. You may find one is enough.
I'll be using multiple power supplies throughout my display, in different locations of my house. Will there be a grounding issue since there are different power supplies plugged into different outlets in my house? I don't see it being safe running a complete 3200+ pixels from 2 power supplies, plugged into the same power outlet...
Well, 3200 pixels is about 192 amps at whatever voltage you are using (12V/5V DC). On the mains (house AC) side however, the current draw is lower because the voltage is higher. I run over 5k pixels with one outlet, but multiple 30-amp power supplies. It peaks at ~800 watts on the mains side which is ~half what a standard 15A US house circuit can handle. I also run my pixels at 30% which reduces the power needed to run them. To answer your question, there shouldn't be a problem plugging into different outlets as they should all feed to the same ground somewhere. Obviously, you need to do your own measurements. If you find yourself popping a breaker, it's probably too much. 😂
I have 200 nodes on 4 mini canes 12volt, they are flickering at the end, but all the lights seem to be same color&brightness, needs power injection?
Could be a bad ground or they are too far apart. Pixel-to-pixel data isn't strong and will only go a foot or two. You might need an F-Amp between props.
So just to be clear when using two power supply’s I only connect the - of the second power supply?
To be specific, if you are powering the same string of pixels with two separate power supplies, connect the negatives together so there is a single reference to ground and split the positive somewhere in the middle, otherwise you run the risk of the power supplies fighting each other and overheating. You're basically powering half of the string with one PS and the other half with the other. It's not a common setup and I haven't needed to use it. Only time I can think of where you might need it is if the string is very long making power injection difficult, but I try to keep strings short so I don't even have to inject power. Now injecting from the same power supply is something I use on my megatree and matrix and in that case, splitting the positive isn't required because it's the same power supply.
Hello, can I use 18awg cable, like in the power tees, for injection? Or should the cable be larger? I plan on using xconnect cables for power injecting from a Falcon, 5A distro. board.
You need to know how the power T's are wired as they may be different or other than what you need to do.
So when I attempt to run 2OO pixels full white at 100% with no power injection, I blow a fuse on the board port. Did you put a higher amp fuse in when you did this test to keep the lights on? Thanks.
No. In this video I bypassed power distribution on the board. The traces on the board are the limiting factor. If you put a higher amp fuse in there they will burn. So instead of going through the board for power, I connected directly to the power supply. If you're going to do this, I strongly suggest you put a fuse in line since it won't be protected by the board. But I also suggest using power injection. :)
So to clarify, I can run more pixels without power injecting if I turn down my brightness? Say I want to run 12v 150 pixel on 1 power supply at 30%.
I live in the city & run most of my display at 30% to avoid landing aircraft on my lawn. There's likely a sweet spot and none of this is exact so do some experimenting.
May be a dumb question here....I plan on having my PS in the garage and run power thru the attic to the pixel strings; will I still get 12v at the pixels after say 200 feet of 24 AWG copper wire?
I doubt it. It might work, but you may have weird problems with the string (pixels not lighting up or looking dull). 24AWG is pretty small as most tend to use 18ga or larger depending on the run. Also, you will need to calculate the current for the string as pixels tend to use more current than you'd think and it's affected by so many things - # of pixels and brightness are the primary factors. Make sure the wire you use can handle the current.
I watched Bill Porter’s xEssential E10 “Power Injection Made Easy” video from November 20, 2018 as well as your video’s on the topic. I was confused with one aspect and hope that you can provide clarification. I am planning to connect six 5v 75 pixel strings end to end making a 450 pixel string plugged into port 1 of a Falcon F16v3. The F16v3 will be drawing power from a Meanwell power supply providing power to the F16v3 itself as well as the pixel string. Then I plan to inject power at various points within the 450 pixel string using a 14AWG wire and a 10amp fuse at the start of the power injection run. However, this string of pixels is also receiving power directly from the F16v3 which is connected to a 5amp fuse. My understanding is that the same string of pixels should not be connected to two fuses. I am not sure how to avoid this. My only thought is that the V+ From the F16v3 to the pixel strip must not get connected and the power injection itself starts at pixel 1. Hope my question is clear. Any advise you can provide is greatly appreciated! Thank you!
2 fuses doesn't matter, just a chance of blowing both of them if you short the wires. I think you're on the right track. What you want to avoid is 2 different power supplies feeding the same string.
Still confused, can you show a schematic? How many lines of power can you run from one power supply? Do you need to boost data as well?
Once you get data to the first pixel (assuming no big gaps) they regenerate the signal for the next pixel. How many? As many as it takes. Let the pixels guide you. Here's another one (ruclips.net/video/Z-IedCXTfy0/видео.html) that may be better and the one immediately after that as well (ruclips.net/video/eCpi9It8Mic/видео.html). Both deal with power injection. This might be more of what you're looking for though: spikerlights.com/pwrinjection.aspx
Are you using strictly 5amp Power supply at your prop. What is best to use , 12 v an what amp and watt. Thanks.
I use 350-watt power supplies. 12V is roughly 30 amps.
Thanks for this video, I know its older but i am new to pixels. trying to get my roof line done with 12v pixels so far i have 250 hooked up and they look good. But i plan to add another 150 and thinking i will need more power. so i can just run a new positive line to the new sets and it will be good? i don't need to run a positive and negative from the same power supply?
I am using Pixels i picked up from amazon they have the flat connector on them not sure what it is called.
I guess all nodes were the same mine uses red/white/blue wires. the plug has these colors and then they have extra leads Red and blue coming out to hook the positive and negative. I guess i cal just do away with the red lead on the connector for where i want to hook a new power line. That will leave the data and the negative hooked together. is there any advantage to hooking it to the complete opisite end of the pixel strand?
I am waiting to get all my stuff to be able to hook these up to my raspberry pi and pi hat. right now just using a ECU NODE with WLED on a app.
Thank for any advice,help as trying get this all finished before Halloween.
See my other reply. 😂
Do you have any video with running power or anything power related when it comes to pixel strip lights? Thanks
I'm not sure I understand what you are asking. This video has to do with power injection. What are you trying to do?
@@CanispaterChristmas does the same thing you do in this video applies to pixel led strip/tape lights, sorry just start learning about this
@@ericguyah Yes. Different pixels behave differently, but you can generally tell when they need more power as they will look dim, muted colors or won't work. General guidelines are power is needed every 50-80 pixels for 5V and 80-100 for 12V. Brightness is also a factor. Let the pixels tell you when they need more power.
I am running about 150 pixels on one port, no power injection, at 100% and works perfectly fine.
Cool!
the problem i'm having is i need to run 25ft from the controller to the first pixel using 24/4 cat5 and i get nothing until i cut the wire down to about 6ft and that's with heavy flickering. there must be some way to get this to work at this length. i believe it's data loss at that length as i'm getting 11.9v at the first pixel on + and - and even power injecting i'm getting nothing. if not i would have to put the controller close to the prop which i really don't want to do.
I have run 30ft using standard 18AWG wiring with no problems. I haven't used CAT5 to power my pixels yet, but may try it at some point in the future. Someone posted they use White/Orange for Data, all solid colors for ground and the remaining White/Color for V+. I found it on the internet so it must be true! :)
If using larger wire for this run is an option, that will most likely fix the problem.
I know you can change out the output resistors on the controller to change the distance, but that's out of my area of expertise. You might float that question on one of the Falcon Christmas forums.
Falcon has a differential receiver (good if you have a Falcon controller) that will increase the distance from the controller.
There is a device called uAmp that will boost the data signal. Again, outside my area of expertise. Forums.
Another technique is to use one or more null pixels to boost the data since each pixel regenerates the data for the next pixel. Null pixels are regular pixels, but they don't light up. Your controller should have a way to designate null pixels on the string. So if 6ft is all you can do, go 6ft, insert a null pixel, go 6 more feet, insert another null pixel and so on. This requires cannibalizing one string or at least part of a string - cutting a pixel leaving enough wire on each side to splice it in line. Also, make sure the null pixels run the same voltage as the pixels you'll use for lighting.
These are the options I know of, but I haven't needed to use any of them. I would ask this question on the forums as you'll likely find folks that have used all of these techniques and can give you better advice.
Let me know if this helps and the final solution you decide on.
i tried replacing the 24/8 cat5 cable for power and data with a 25' run of 12ga wire for ground and power and still use the 25' cat5 with only data connected. i found that my scrap 12ga wire was actually over 30' and my pixels worked fine. i also tried some thermostat 18ga wire that was around 400-300'. it barely lit the first 2 pixels but it did somewhat work. i figure my problem was absolutely a power issue due to the 24ga wire of the cat5. so my next step is to get some 18ga alarm wire and try my runs from there.
I have a 10m windows perimeter which I will surround with WS2811 pixel strips (joined together on the window corners). I'm using a E682 controller with 12v output. Will I get away with powering the entire 10m strip of pixels with no power injection?
Possibly. Especially if you aren’t running at 100%. No problem trying it out. The lights will tell you if they need more power.
Thank you and fantastic video collection BTW. This is the very first synchronised Christmas light display, so I'm a complete rookie. Decided to dive in head first with a combination of LOR AC/DC props and pixels. There's only one other person in my town that puts on a synchro display here in the UK, so I'm expecting some attention this Christmas! I hadn't considered running pixels at less than full brightness. A bit tricky for me as I'm having to sequence pixels in xlights, convert to lms then open in LOR SE and paste into my existing sequence.
Thanks! You CAN adjust intensity in xLights which might flow through your process. It’s one of the model settings (I forget what it’s called).
Why connect the negatives together? to avoid noise?
Yes. Noise (or slight voltage differences) makes the pixels flash uncontrollably.
Hey Jeff, so, unfortunately, I'm going to have to inject. My question is if my pixels have those 2 additional positive and negative wires at the start of the string do I still need to cut the positive of the string that is feeding in to the string I need to inject on? Sounds a bit convoluted so let me see if I can explain better.
I have string 1 being fed from the power supply. I reach point B and my lights begin to dim and flicker even after adding an F Amp. Just before the point where my lights begin flickering, I had connected another string to continue my run. That string has those 2 little positive and negative pig tails that I assume are there for power injection. Can I just run another wire from my power supply and connect to those or do I still need to cut the positive at the end of the preceding string?
Appreciate your help as always!
If you are injecting power from the same PSU that is feeding the string from your controller, no need to cut the positive since it is the same. If you hang a 2nd PSU off the end of the string, you need to cut the positive.
I keep getting confused on the connecting positives of two power supplies. This was my current plan and please correct me if I am wrong. I was planning on running power, data and ground from the controller to a string of lights. After the first 100, place a power injection T between the first set of lights and the second. I will then run an extension cable with power and ground only to a distro board that is being powered by a second power supply. All lights are 12V run by 12V power supplies.
Thank you,
Make sure the positives are isolated (cut) between power supplies. Ground separate supplies together, but keep the positives separate. If from the same supply, you can inject at multiple locations with the positives the same, but not with separate supplies. Technically, there are ways to connect positives together, but it's easier to just cut the + wire and start with a new supply.
Also, you CAN inject from the same supply at multiple locations down the strings. A single power supply can handle several hundred pixels depending on the pixel and cable distance. If you're powering from the controller, you need to stay under 5-amps (usually), but the same supply can feed a long string at multiple locations reducing the total draw from the controller. I usually use .06amps per node for estimating power requirements, but it also depends if you're running at 100% brightness or something less. White lights pull the most. Colors pull less. Long cables will also drop voltage. Power is one of the toughest parts of the hobby so you may get some help from folks closer to you or buy a bunch of fuses and experiment. :)
Thank you. You are exactly right about power being the hardest part. All pixels will be run at 30%-40% depending on the model so it will greatly reduce power consumption. I have also used Clyde Lindsey's Excel sheet to help calculate power. The two power supplies connected to each other wasn't making sense. After you explained it, I went back to the wiki and it made perfect sense. Thank you.
Like the Nike band!
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How many times can you inject power from one power supply
As many as you need to keep the voltage right all along the string. Just make sure you don't exceed 80% of the power supply's output.
For power injection, do you need to run both a positive and negative wire from the power supply to the injection point? Or can you just run a positive line? If you have a negative running through the controller and through all the lights inline in that way wouldn't a negative line for each power injection be redundant and unnecessary?
I always give both additional paths. You can try it.
@@CanispaterChristmas I was just curious if the negative line was necessary since it's not the one carrying the power. I really don't know much about what I'm talking about 🤣 I was thinking that I could take the negative that I ran with the positive and turn them both in a positive to act as a lower gauge cable in a sense
OK. Both wires carry current (it's a closed loop).
And now for something that will really confuse you.... electrons flow from negative to positive.
@@CanispaterChristmas makes sense!
The LED flickering is because of the refresh rate dropping when the LEDs fade to zero.
👍
Hi, what if i use 3000 pixel light ws2811, what size of.wire.should i use for power injection? Tnx
You can't push data through a single string of pixels that long. 1,024 is the longest supported by current controllers so you'd need at least 3 strings. As for wire size, you need to know how much current the pixels draw (there are many more options today) and brightness has a large effect on current draw. What are you building?
@@CanispaterChristmas basically i am building a borderline out of maybe 1500 pixel light, 600 for a pixel grid and some arches and another bordeline for window for the rest.
@@CanispaterChristmas i am using a light controller, and a sequence software as well. I just want to know the size of the wire to be used at.
Unfortunately there isn't a single answer. You need to estimate wire size based on the string, brightness, distance from controller, etc. I order my strings with 18 AWG wire if possible so maybe start there for general use?
@@CanispaterChristmas have you done a borline before? I mean like the one they used for the lines on the edge of the roof, :) something like that
So I understand how to power inject. But how many power injections can you supply off of the same power supply? So say the meanwell 30amp 350watt power supply. I'm fuzzy on this.
Power injection doesn't draw more amps, it just maintains voltage along the string. You can inject every pixel if you want, but that isn't necessary. 😂 As long as the current draw is under 80% of the rated current capacity of the supply, # of injections doesn't matter. So for that supply, try to stay under 25 amps to give yourself some headroom and not overtax the supply.
what c9 bulbs are you using
I'm using these along the fence (bit.ly/2AugCet aliexpress link). They include the C9 diffusers (but you have to put them on).
ok thanks
So quick question?
The negative and data wire is tied together on all (3) strings from the 1st controller/power supply?
When running the 3rd string, you can leave the negative and data wire tied through to the other (2) strings, but the positive wire for string 3 can ONLY be connected to the second power supply? (isolated from string 1 & 2).?
Wouldn't it be better to have the 3rd string isolated from the other 2 strings on the positive and negative.?
I am new but trying to get this sorted.
Thanks.
The idea is to break the positive between the two power supplies so you don't get them fighting each other (eg: generating heat, causing fires, ruining everyone's Christmas 😂). All grounds need to be the same otherwise you run the chance of having stray voltage on the data line which causes the pixels to do funny things). Data is not connected to the power supply - only from the controller to the first pixel and it's a chain (pixel to pixel) all the way down the string. Pixels regenerate the data signal for the next pixel so once you make it to the first pixel, you're good for the string unless you have a large distance (a few feet) between two pixels. Check out my beginner playlist if you haven't already. It goes through the basics (ruclips.net/p/PLFyrAfJ-kKd4ZfPdXWIt8v_bav61mW_KW)
@@CanispaterChristmas so you would tie the grounds from all 3 strings together even though power is supplied from 2 different power supplies? Thanks for the reply. And great job with everything.
Yes, a common ground (same ground for everything) is necessary.
@@CanispaterChristmas last question 😂😉
So is a common ground required between all pixel strings in a show (different props/matrix's etc)? with multiple controllers, power supplies?
Thank you!
No. Each controller is supplied by it's own power and the controller will provide the common ground among all the strings attached to it. The only time there really is a chance of an issue (that I can think of) is running 2 power supplies on the same string. BTW, how many pixels we talking here? 2 power supplies is really not something that comes up often. Generally only spanning a large distance (making power injection from the same power supply difficult) with one string.
Maybe a silly question because no one really talks about this but what type of fuses do you use and how do you connect them to the wires (in the spots where you say “...should put a fuse here...”)?
Any type of fuse will do. Size obviously depends on the circuit, but there are some fuse boards made by community vendors or there are some fuse blocks available from Amazon. I've used both. I'll try to be more comprehensive in my setup video this year.
If you power inject via like a Falcon power distribution board with a second power source do you still only plug the negative into the Falcon board?
@@ryanhanlon9984 Not sure I totally understand. Injecting power is more effective with both wires. The purpose is to maintain voltage all the way down the string. The pixels will usually tell you when they need more power by either not working or looking dull. The purpose of a fuse is mainly to protect your pixels from an oops.
I thought I read somewhere that if you inject with a second power source you can’t connect the positive wires between both supplies?
@@ryanhanlon9984 Yep. You don't want to connect the positives of two different power supplies to the same string or they will fight each other. You need to cut the positive lead between the two.
Do I need to solder if I need power injection?
Probably. Depends on how you do your connections.
@@CanispaterChristmas what do you mean how I do my connections?
@@lmjhalloween Haha. Do you solder wires together or use the crimp-n-heat connectors?
@@CanispaterChristmas well, I just started my Rgb smart pixel show this year and I only have a mega tree without needing power injecting
@@lmjhalloween OK. There isn't a hard and fast rule for connecting 2 wires together, but I prefer soldering. I've had crimp connections come loose over time, but the crimp-n-heat sleeves have a bead of solder in them so best of both worlds. I just solder everything. Some people love the other. Personal preference really. Also, only inject power if you need it. Let the pixels be your guide.
How do you .... determine current issues .... need more .... need bigger .... need less etc etc
The pixels will tell you by looking dim.
@@CanispaterChristmas Thx. But looking for more of a concrete methodology.
Still .... Tho you did give me some good info.
Oh OK. If you are new to pixels, have you been through my beginner playlist at ruclips.net/p/PLFyrAfJ-kKd4ZfPdXWIt8v_bav61mW_KW ? That gives a lot of the basics about pixels. Typically you can go 50-80 nodes without injecting power for 5V pixels, 80-100 for 12V pixels. It also depends on the brightness setting. I typically run them at 30% since it's too bright for my neighborhood if I run them at 100%. 30% lets me run longer strings before needing to inject power. Different pixels behave differently so it's really more experimentation with the setup you have rather than a calculation. It's also a matter of experience. The longer you use pixels, the quicker you'll be able to determine whether or not you'll need to inject. It's a waste to inject if you don't need to so that's why I usually just let the pixels tell me for new props I build. So, it's more art than concrete. :)
Can straight up RGB LEDs with 4 pins be power injected?
Not sure what you mean by "straight up." If they are digital pixels (set color and brightness with data), then probably. If they are analog, I doubt it. I don't have a ton of experience with analog pixels, but they set colors by voltage differences, hence the probably not.
@@CanispaterChristmas
There's no common negative polarity to connect to so I see no way to inject positive and negative DC!
Analog pixels then?
In that current is varied with each channel to produce an effect, then yes.
OK. Same page then. You might get a better answer from the folks at auschristmaslighting or the Facebook groups. Surely someone there has more experience with them. I started out with the digital variety and only tinkered with the analog a little so my knowledge is lacking.
so if i buy the same power supply like you i could put 400 ws2811 on juste one power supply
400 standard pixels would be roughly 24amps so if the pixels are standard, a single 30-amp power supply should be fine. Make sure to verify the power requirements of the pixels because they CAN be different.
Thanks for this video, I know its older but i am new to pixels. trying to get my roof line done with 12v pixels so far i have 250 hooked up and they look good. But i plan to add another 150 and thinking i will need more power. so i can just run a new positive line to the new sets and it will be good? i don't need to run a positive and negative from the same power supply?
I am using Pixels i picked up from amazon they have the flat connector on them not sure what it is called.
I guess all nodes were the same mine uses red/white/blue wires. the plug has these colors and then they have extra leads Red and blue coming out to hook the positive and negative. I guess i cal just do away with the red lead on the connector for where i want to hook a new power line. That will leave the data and the negative hooked together. is there any advantage to hooking it to the complete opisite end of the pixel strand?
I am waiting to get all my stuff to be able to hook these up to my raspberry pi and pi hat. right now just using a ECU NODE with WLED on a app.
Thank for any advice,help as trying get this all finished before Halloween.
If using 2 different power supplies, it's best to break the positive in the middle-ish. You can power from either end of the string. You should connect the negative between the two to prevent floating voltage on the data line (flickering & random colors).