I do like the shove strategy also and I've used it before. No cheap flush draws in that situation. Depends if it's a bluffer or a super tight player. Board is one of those you need to push with top pair and decent kicker.
Pretty solid advice given here, and at the end of the day this hand is just a massive cooler. Big spot or not we went to the flop with a stack to pot ratio of around 3, so as a general default we just cant fold something as strong as this. And we even more cant fold on this exact texture, where so little of his realistic range beat us. He probably 3-bet AA, KK and AK preflop, and calling with 33 is somewhat on the loose side, since stack depth were not really enough to profitably go for the setmine. And two pair is super unlikely as well, when the board is this spread out. So its really only he have exactly 88, or we are ahead. And in this particular case, it actually was 88.
Hey, thank you for the video, It's interesting but I disagree with your analysis. let me explain : 1 - You are deep in the tournament and he is a chip leader (> 3 x your chips) : it means he is a good player (he can be tight and/or loose and aggressive : difficult to analyze ) 2 - he called preflop (in a SB position) when you 3-bet : it means he has something to call with. if we assume, he has a wide range to call with, it means, he can play 22+, suited cards and Kx and Ax cards. 3 - The flop comes : he is last to speak (favored position) and 3-bet you : in that case his range reduced to Kx - 88 - 33 - k8 - k3 and cards for a flush draws 4 - you called and the turn is a Jh (a bad card for you because he can have a KJ s or o) 5 - he all in in the turn : even if he is bluffing, it's better to fold because there is many cards that can beat you vs the outs that you have (6 outs) and for me it's an unnecessary risk to take. in your place, I would fold after his 3 bet 42k and try to avoid this player for a little bit and play only premium hand with him (KQs is not a very good hand in this flop) I'm opened to discuss my comment if anyone is interested. Thank you.
When Villain raised on the flop, wouldn't it have been better for you to reraise or even shove? on the flop? based on equity? and what you said about probably calling on turn anyway?
I would simply call and see if another club comes on this flop raise. No straights looming. Trips are a concern but I'd want to see a card. T me it would look like a nut-flush bluff. Ace rag suited is the perfect hand that raise
First thing first should he/she open KQs Utg 8 Handed 30Bigs? I feel like your range should be very very tight Ep full ring doesnt matter if its deep stage tourney or cash game. Unless you are chip leader in tourney at final table!(you can afford)
@@Kambria I think it's too loose for this final table at a tournament. It lets variance take a swing at you, which is not what you want with this many BB. In fact, it lost this guy this tournament
I thought a "rainbow" in poker is when the flop contains 3 different suits and thus no flush possible. Why is he calling this a rainbow when there are two clubs on the flop?
I would have fold on the flop with one pair hand against a checked raise, because in this deep of the tournament opponent would less likely to be bluffing at this point. Either against strong made hand and strong draw hand which makes one pair hand very weak on the later street
As Alec mentioned this advices is for a medium-big tournament. In a small ones is for the most part wrong. You do not have a deep thinking players but a lot of gamblers and some decent ones. Yes, long run you'll be profitable but could be very long sometimes. I go with: 1 players types 2 players range 3 positions 4 my poker image
@@ConsciousPoker Hi Alec would you find 10 mins to make same video with low buy in? Let's say $22. I don't know what to think about what you said there's less gamblers, more thinking opponents etc. Does it mean the low buy in tournaments players are bluffing more or not bluffing etc. Should hero fold on the flop....?Thank you
Hi what do you mean by ''You do not have a deep thinking players but a lot of gamblers and some decent ones .'' Does it mean the low buy in tournaments players are bluffing more or not bluffing etc. Should hero in this video fold on the flop....?Thank you
Ciao Alec, Is there a way where we can get some clue about the opponent holding set? I have always been at the receiving end with set. Requesting you to make an exclusive video on this. Thanks and love you
what I'm learning so far. A lot of players when holding small pocket pair, they attend to just flat call with the mindet of hitting a set. if Ineed holding a set and the board can easily crack the set, they typically wont be slow playing a set.
Hi, when you speak, a little hoarseness appears. I used to do the same. Now I know that I had a problem in one of my vocal cord. I'm being trated and there's a chance of having an operation .Just saying, be aware. Greeting from Chile. And thanks for the tips by the way.
Typically here if I'm playing a tournament where most people are not very good I lean towards folding here more than not. Its all about the player. Some players and I'd venture to say more in tourneys here do not have some of the range you're talking about like flush draws. If he's an aggressive pro than yeah I agree you have to get it in here, but against most rec players I think this is a good because they simply aren't putting it in on a draw period, plus most people have to figure you're not folding on the turn hence a bet w a draw would be a bad idea.
There are a few components to how to play poker games. One resource I discovered which succeeds in merging these is the Card Crusher Fixer (google it if you're interested) it's the most useful resource that I've heard of. Check out the amazing information .
Busting is part of poker. The best in the world still lose. I'm not only here to sell products, but to show the real life of poker and help others on their journey.
I agree with your conclusion based on the math. It's solid. ...but in that situation I fold. Here's my reasoning... Let's face it, you cannot go deep in a tourney without luck and a lot of times you'll find that the cheap leader has literally been hit in the forehead by the deck and are winning the large majority of the hands they play. Ive had it happen to me and Ive seen it happen to others. They can literally do no wrong. The stars are aligned. They are on an epic heater. For that reason, I almost always avoid playing hands against them until I notice that they have cooled off. Thats not something that can be explained by math. Its a fuzzy logic variant of poker. As an example... Look at Jamie Gold. I'm not saying that he cant play, but OMG what a heater he was on when he won the main. Right? So, I dont look at the math in that situation. I completely ignore it because its irrelevant. Instead I look at my single pair and ask myself if it's worth busting out and if this is the right spot and the RIGHT PLAYER to make a stand against. Unless I flopped the stone nuts, this is a no-brainer fold IMO. Live to fight another day.
Alec, jamming flop there is a big mistake IMO. What you try to achive with jamming? All his bluffs will fold (we dont wanna do that, we want him to keep fireing with his bluffs), and all his value hands that will call beat us, exept if he calls with FD, but why jam right there on flop and give him a lot of equity with his drow? I think that real decision is to call or fold there, but because we have almoust top of our range there, I would almoust never fold there. IMO best decision is call, if turn comes non club hand we can easy jam there on turn, and if club comes on turn and he put us all in you can find there fold button... I think most profitable line here is just calling flop, and I dont see point in jamming flop right there...
also J on turn is bad card, because he can have KJ in his range also, but still I think we must call turn considering pot size and bluff vs value combos giving us right price to call...
that doesnt make sence... if I know he is on FD I wouldnt just shove and give him his 40% of equity... He is OOP and its easy call... he will prob fire his FD also on turn if he misses ( considering his stack and position he is in (not position on table, but in tournament)) and you have so much value from that only...
well I am mostly cash game grinder, and I still think its better option for tournament play to just call, by calling you dont give him 36% but 18% because he will see only turn, and its ez shove on turn or calling shove if he shoves on non club turn with his 18% equity...
He also says we have to consider “ its deep in a major tournament , so his range is going to be a bit wider, but he also the chip leader so ~his range is going to be a bit wider~ lol get some sleep man
I knew he had a set! Why why God? Oh the humanity! Just joking, I thought he had AK. But Honestly, I was thinking I would fold on the $42,000 bet. I prefer to wait for more certainty when I ship it all in. Every time I lose in a tournament I am out drawn. Last I was in Vegas A9 killed my AK, AJ killed my KK, same with my QQ. You got to lose flips to get to go home,
how can I learn from sometime just talking talking talking talking talking talking talking, this is absolute nonsense and a waste of time lol. I just want to see how the hand is played... and it was like 5 minutes of ridiculous talking until I saw what the next move is?!?!?!?
I do like the shove strategy also and I've used it before. No cheap flush draws in that situation. Depends if it's a bluffer or a super tight player. Board is one of those you need to push with top pair and decent kicker.
Pretty solid advice given here, and at the end of the day this hand is just a massive cooler. Big spot or not we went to the flop with a stack to pot ratio of around 3, so as a general default we just cant fold something as strong as this. And we even more cant fold on this exact texture, where so little of his realistic range beat us.
He probably 3-bet AA, KK and AK preflop, and calling with 33 is somewhat on the loose side, since stack depth were not really enough to profitably go for the setmine. And two pair is super unlikely as well, when the board is this spread out. So its really only he have exactly 88, or we are ahead. And in this particular case, it actually was 88.
fundiver198 ur explanation is better compared to what he’s saying
Great explanation as always! Thanks for your content.
Cheers man glad you enjoyed it.
Good information
Hey, thank you for the video, It's interesting but I disagree with your analysis. let me explain :
1 - You are deep in the tournament and he is a chip leader (> 3 x your chips) : it means he is a good player (he can be tight and/or loose and aggressive : difficult to analyze )
2 - he called preflop (in a SB position) when you 3-bet : it means he has something to call with. if we assume, he has a wide range to call with, it means, he can play 22+, suited cards and Kx and Ax cards.
3 - The flop comes : he is last to speak (favored position) and 3-bet you : in that case his range reduced to Kx - 88 - 33 - k8 - k3 and cards for a flush draws
4 - you called and the turn is a Jh (a bad card for you because he can have a KJ s or o)
5 - he all in in the turn : even if he is bluffing, it's better to fold because there is many cards that can beat you vs the outs that you have (6 outs) and for me it's an unnecessary risk to take.
in your place, I would fold after his 3 bet 42k and try to avoid this player for a little bit and play only premium hand with him (KQs is not a very good hand in this flop)
I'm opened to discuss my comment if anyone is interested.
Thank you.
A big stack doesnt always mean a good player.
Late in tourney? Much more likely he is a good player than not. If it was early tourney I see your point. But not late tourney
I think I'll roll with the guy who won multiple events advice...
When Villain raised on the flop, wouldn't it have been better for you to reraise or even shove? on the flop? based on equity? and what you said about probably calling on turn anyway?
I would simply call and see if another club comes on this flop raise. No straights looming. Trips are a concern but I'd want to see a card. T me it would look like a nut-flush bluff. Ace rag suited is the perfect hand that raise
First thing first should he/she open KQs Utg 8 Handed 30Bigs?
I feel like your range should be very very tight Ep full ring doesnt matter if its deep stage tourney or cash game.
Unless you are chip leader in tourney at final table!(you can afford)
100% an open. KQs is a strong hand
@@Kambria I think it's too loose for this final table at a tournament. It lets variance take a swing at you, which is not what you want with this many BB. In fact, it lost this guy this tournament
I'm so glad that my decision to push all in on the flop after he opponent bets 42k was the right decision.
thts what I would have done
I thought a "rainbow" in poker is when the flop contains 3 different suits and thus no flush possible. Why is he calling this a rainbow when there are two clubs on the flop?
He corrected himself
your a joke lol
Whattttt
Deep! I am impressed with the thought process! Amazing! : D
I would have fold on the flop with one pair hand against a checked raise, because in this deep of the tournament opponent would less likely to be bluffing at this point. Either against strong made hand and strong draw hand which makes one pair hand very weak on the later street
Nice video 😊 thanks alec!
Thanks for support.
As Alec mentioned this advices is for a medium-big tournament. In a small ones is for the most part wrong. You do not have a deep thinking players but a lot of gamblers and some decent ones. Yes, long run you'll be profitable but could be very long sometimes.
I go with:
1 players types
2 players range
3 positions
4 my poker image
Good thoughts Marcello. Thanks!
@@ConsciousPoker Hi Alec would you find 10 mins to make same video with low buy in? Let's say $22. I don't know what to think about what you said there's less gamblers, more thinking opponents etc. Does it mean the low buy in tournaments players are bluffing more or not bluffing etc. Should hero fold on the flop....?Thank you
Hi what do you mean by ''You do not have a deep thinking players but a lot of gamblers and some decent ones .'' Does it mean the low buy in tournaments players are bluffing more or not bluffing etc. Should hero in this video fold on the flop....?Thank you
what?
Ciao Alec,
Is there a way where we can get some clue about the opponent holding set? I have always been at the receiving end with set. Requesting you to make an exclusive video on this.
Thanks and love you
what I'm learning so far. A lot of players when holding small pocket pair, they attend to just flat call with the mindet of hitting a set. if Ineed holding a set and the board can easily crack the set, they typically wont be slow playing a set.
Hi, when you speak, a little hoarseness appears. I used to do the same. Now I know that I had a problem in one of my vocal cord. I'm being trated and there's a chance of having an operation .Just saying, be aware. Greeting from Chile. And thanks for the tips by the way.
LOL I'm that comfy tourney guy that will call your all in with 89 suited or even 56 suited
Thanks for the video alec. Love the content
I suffered a lot from this problem
Although I always be a good player
But the truth benefited from the video
Typically here if I'm playing a tournament where most people are not very good I lean towards folding here more than not. Its all about the player. Some players and I'd venture to say more in tourneys here do not have some of the range you're talking about like flush draws. If he's an aggressive pro than yeah I agree you have to get it in here, but against most rec players I think this is a good because they simply aren't putting it in on a draw period, plus most people have to figure you're not folding on the turn hence a bet w a draw would be a bad idea.
A rule of thumb would be dont try to take chips from the winning players or the chip leader
Hi alec, do you would jab anyway on raimbow flop? Thanks
Everytime Im I this situation I end up getting busted , I get so confused
Is it wrong to miss when No limit wasnt such a math crunch?
It was as good as ever...Thanks for sharing your poker science professor
I can across a great compilation of videos that may help on card crusher fixer
There are a few components to how to play poker games. One resource I discovered which succeeds in merging these is the Card Crusher Fixer (google it if you're interested) it's the most useful resource that I've heard of. Check out the amazing information .
I always think set with this....
I find it curious you show video of going busto when you’re trying to sell a training video
Busting is part of poker. The best in the world still lose. I'm not only here to sell products, but to show the real life of poker and help others on their journey.
Ironically, he made me think about his course BECAUSE he showed a lost hand but with a good thought process.
U guys turn a simple disition into a complicated one, u only have less than a minute to decide!
disition
I agree with your conclusion based on the math. It's solid.
...but in that situation I fold.
Here's my reasoning...
Let's face it, you cannot go deep in a tourney without luck and a lot of times you'll find that the cheap leader has literally been hit in the forehead by the deck and are winning the large majority of the hands they play. Ive had it happen to me and Ive seen it happen to others.
They can literally do no wrong. The stars are aligned. They are on an epic heater.
For that reason, I almost always avoid playing hands against them until I notice that they have cooled off.
Thats not something that can be explained by math. Its a fuzzy logic variant of poker.
As an example... Look at Jamie Gold. I'm not saying that he cant play, but OMG what a heater he was on when he won the main. Right?
So, I dont look at the math in that situation. I completely ignore it because its irrelevant. Instead I look at my single pair and ask myself if it's worth busting out and if this is the right spot and the RIGHT PLAYER to make a stand against.
Unless I flopped the stone nuts, this is a no-brainer fold IMO. Live to fight another day.
I didn't see the pocket eights, thought that he had a nut flush draw
How can you have clubs 1 out of 4 times? 4:47
There's 4 suits
yeah, offsuit pockets are more common than suited pockets so it's way smaller odds than 1 in 4
Alec, jamming flop there is a big mistake IMO. What you try to achive with jamming? All his bluffs will fold (we dont wanna do that, we want him to keep fireing with his bluffs), and all his value hands that will call beat us, exept if he calls with FD, but why jam right there on flop and give him a lot of equity with his drow? I think that real decision is to call or fold there, but because we have almoust top of our range there, I would almoust never fold there. IMO best decision is call, if turn comes non club hand we can easy jam there on turn, and if club comes on turn and he put us all in you can find there fold button... I think most profitable line here is just calling flop, and I dont see point in jamming flop right there...
also J on turn is bad card, because he can have KJ in his range also, but still I think we must call turn considering pot size and bluff vs value combos giving us right price to call...
that doesnt make sence... if I know he is on FD I wouldnt just shove and give him his 40% of equity... He is OOP and its easy call... he will prob fire his FD also on turn if he misses ( considering his stack and position he is in (not position on table, but in tournament)) and you have so much value from that only...
well I am mostly cash game grinder, and I still think its better option for tournament play to just call, by calling you dont give him 36% but 18% because he will see only turn, and its ez shove on turn or calling shove if he shoves on non club turn with his 18% equity...
Alec I need some scented necklaces
Get one! www.consciouspoker.com
The robin hood vid was cool the drumming was probably harder than u made it look
Wow, so this is the content you lock behind a paywall?
1 out of 4 is 25% 1 out of 3 is 33%
I came to the comments to write that exact comment 😂😂
lol I’m glad I’m not the only one thrown off by this
He also says we have to consider “ its deep in a major tournament , so his range is going to be a bit wider, but he also the chip leader so ~his range is going to be a bit wider~ lol get some sleep man
He meant 3:1 which is 25% or 4:1 which is 20%
@@Nvrpro888 he meant narrower the first time
can you show us poker yoga? i kinda play like a discerning head-hunter lol
Don't agree that KJ is in his range when he raises. Maybe in a $200 tournament, not too often in an EPT, same with J-8.
💪🏽💪🏽💪🏽
I knew he had a set! Why why God? Oh the humanity! Just joking, I thought he had AK. But Honestly, I was thinking I would fold on the $42,000 bet. I prefer to wait for more certainty when I ship it all in. Every time I lose in a tournament I am out drawn. Last I was in Vegas A9 killed my AK, AJ killed my KK, same with my QQ. You got to lose flips to get to go home,
I would of folded pre flop baby
Creo que el poker es una ciencia. No entendí nada.
i think, Poker is science . i dint understand anything.
17k into 41k is not a 1/3 pot c bet .
1/3 is not 25% and 1/4 is not 20%
Nice vid!!! Just get some water bud.
huh? Water?
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Easy fold here at the flop....
Ayzen Sama right...
nit
Why is it hard for you people to get away from KQ? U fools going broke here while I'm making a pro fold.
fold pre UTG imo
Alec T, you should refrain from commenting. You are really wasting your time and viewers time. You only making noise pollution!!!!
YEA, DON'T KNOW IF i WANT TO TAKE ADVICE ON ODDS FROM SOMEONE THAT DOESN'T KNOW PERCENTS
you should reconsider playing poker if u cant figure out what 1/4 and 1/3 is dumbass
Making it to complicated
No s*** shove. I paused it right away and said to myself shove. I don't understand about the 8 minute lecture.
how can I learn from sometime just talking talking talking talking talking talking talking, this is absolute nonsense and a waste of time lol. I just want to see how the hand is played... and it was like 5 minutes of ridiculous talking until I saw what the next move is?!?!?!?