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Should DoTs crit? I see you focus a lot on balance, which is important, but there is one thing more important than balance, identity and variation. The question is how to make casters unique while still allowing them to parse properly, have it be fun and not break anything integral to the masterpiece of design that is Vanilla(largely anyways).
As a mage, I may not be top DPS on bosses in BFD, but out in the open world I am on top of the food chain, face tanking and obliterating 8 mobs at a time, and teleporting around the world with ease. All in all, life is good. Everyone don't have to be the best at everything, and raid logs aren't everything either.
Exactly. In dungeons all rogues have is single damage target while others can AOE. Of course rogues should be leading an encounter with only single target dmg then. What else do we have.
Concerns over raid damage are what starts homogenizing classes. They should change aspects of encounters to accent the class strengths rather than tuning classes around dps meters
Classes becoming the same started in cata because 10 man heroic raiding needed a wider range of classes to have certain utility spells/ cooldowns more than anything else. Having encounters which are just good for certain specs doesnt sound all too interesting either (turtle boss in bfd for caster/melee)
@@WillEmmo Personally I think it makes sense and is fine for certain classes to have more damage than others. classes that have a lot of self-sustain or healing options (warlocks, pallies, even druids and dps priests) should probably do less damage than their purity counterparts. the strength is that healers don't have to work as hard keeping them alive through mechanics, or in warlock's case, they can sustain damage for longer than mages because they can't run oom. Sure, speedrun guilds will always take the highest damage classes, but the game shouldn't be balanced around speedruns. BFD is super easy to clear with any class combo. and I think if they continue with this difficulty trend and an ever-changing game throughout the phases, the game will be a lot more fun than if every class was a damage powerhouse.
I don't think they should focus too heavily on it until the level 50 tier where most classes have their abilities and will be showing closer to end game data. Some classes start of strong and drop off like hunters, others start off weak and end strong once they scale up like warriors. I think they should balance the abilities if their way over/under tuned, but otherwise don't try to hyper balance a mid level experience.
Public service announcement for all my fellow gamers: Take a deep breath, look around, and smell the lifebloom. As all things in life, this phase will come and go. Very soon we will be looking back to these moments and phases with fond memories. Nothing lasts forever, just enjoy things as they come and stop always chasing the dragon.
Honestly seeing the sweaties talk in LFG about being well gear for sfk makes me wonder if people are playing this as a job, or as a hobby. It's a classic dungeon, not pre nerf Cara heroic dungeon.
Playing mostly casters it's been meh so far, but blizzard has done a lot very quickly. The new content in the game is fun. Overall, this is a very promising start.
Agree (and im a lock so im doing ok) I just dont want the boomy / spriest brothers and so on to spend another vanilla with the same experience performance wise you could get on era
@@WillEmmo i am playing Ele Shaman and cant even get invited into bfd cuz of the lack of dmg, they boosted boomkin so much but only gave shammy a 17% increase in overload
The pace of sod has been a God send for me... gives me time to keep up with everyone and try out other classes... as opposed to the massive zerg rush to 60 classic was.
I just wish they enabled 41y nameplates. It's exceptionally painful to play hunter, because nameplates only appear just barely before you're in the deadzone, meaning you have to move very carefully.
Look, this video was completely about the classic wow parse mentality that in my opinion broke the game. SOD brought me to zones I did not visit for ages, made me farm pearls, made me squeeze murlocks for fish oil and above all that - as a dad gamer I didn't feel 'running late' for once. I love the world pvp, I love the character crafting at a level cap that isn't 60. I don't raid and I really do not have to, perfect. Oh and I play a priest, and we are doing fine in the outside world.
There's a reason they made Intellect give Spell Damage starting in Cata, it never made sense that the only stats that gave abilities extra numbers were the physical ones. (and Spirit should've given more Healing Power)
This kind of thinking would leave players who enjoy Balance Druid or Shadow Priest to suffer for nearly a year. The phases are 3 months long each. Arbitrarily forcing those players to wait to be able to contribute in a raid is dumb. Blizzard themselves don't think like this, they're already buffing under-performing specs in hopes to make the gap less substantial.
@@kat-rau. This is why they should have tuned the raid, not changed classes, Balance, Shadow and Frost suffered in the raid because the raid has high shadow, nature and frost resistences, and even more importantly, no curse of elements/Shadows
@@kat-rau. People complaining about boomy dmg must not be using Starsurge or something. Shit is hitting for Pyro numbers as an instant cast every 6 seconds w/ essentially zero mana cost.
I think you completely missed the biggest thing that is separating melee and casters at the moment and that is debuff/buff support. Melee have access to pretty much everything in BFD: sunder armour, faerie fire, might, kings, battle shout, mangle debuff, windfury and so on. That is a huge amount of support when you compare to what casters have at the moment which is just arcane intellect. Casters are missing a massive heap of very large damage buffs+debuffs in curse of elements/shadows, shadow weaving, improved scorch, improved shadow bolt, winter's chill, moonkin aura, power infusion, divine spirit, ect. Melee scale extremely well, but caster's also scale fairly well too - most caster's have 100% crit damage talents (boomie, lock, frost mage), fire mage has ignite as well, and the levels of crit casters can reach currently is pathetic as there is no crit secondary on gear at the moment and the ratio of int to spell crit is terrible. Combine that with mana issues if fights go long and bosses having far too much magic resistance for level 25 and its a recipe for sitting way below melee
They have already made significant changes to BFD to improve caster effectiveness. Its not quite enough yet but changing the BFD buff to include spell hit and the reduction of magic/shadow resist shows they are actively working on this.
the resists thing was fixing a colossal blunder stemming from their own lack of understanding of game mechanics. Can't give them much creditr for that.
@@quineloe oh I get it, your just a salty ass caster who’s underperforming and it’s stressing you out. So you vent in RUclips comments and pretend to know things. 😂😂😂 imagine living that life 🤮
You can farm corpsemaker right now and even if you don’t get the epic sword in BFD you’ll have a weapon that’s just as good if not better equipped by 29
Casters need to be slightly worse in Patchwerk fights for there to be balance since it's strictly better to be able to deal your damage from melee to 30-41 yards away than melee only.
Look I get the frustration of casters not doing as much as melee, but its level 25....Can you guys just enjoy the game for what it is (a classic+ beta). The fact that the classic team is already making changes is a good sign. Be patient and revisit tuning if it stays like this at 60. I mean it really does not matter what the dps is BFD is clearable sub 30 mins so its not the end of the world.
@@hoffix1690 Ummm, yes? OP's post talks about how physical has a huge buff brought to every raid that only affects them. And the post above you talks about how some bosses had huge resist values that only lowered spell-based DPS.
I've been leveling a fire mage, and mana is definitely a concern. It's fine in the open world where I can drink after the fight with my conjured mage water. In dungeons, I find myself wanding a lot.
I’m not too worried about the issues. This is the first of 4 phases, and this is seasonal. Starting off rocky was to be expected, and with how fun it’s already been, I can’t wait to see what else they get up to.
Plus what he was looking at still had hunters using bugged scorpids. As of Thursday Korea still did not get the hotfix and it had just barely dropped on EU.
What Would help. is if a Shadowpriest's Rune would say, alter Spirit Tap, causing it to activate when a target you have Damaged is killed, rather than when You personally land a killing blow (Double Spirit and 50% Mana Regen while casting, would be Lovely to help them, maybe even All Priests in this case)
There is simply not enough spellpower on caster gear. Also, as a Warlock - I dread 50 and early 60 phase, where Incinerate will be resisted or outright immuned on various bosses.
Another thing they could do and have made several posts about this on the forms int If that gives some spell power and Heaven forbid the spell credit is you know the same for every class. It would help liek 10 int for 1 sp and 30 int for 1% Spell crit
@@Kensber85 yes really :P people freaking out over being lower on DPS a few weeks after launch is just sad imo, if all that matter is dungeon dps performance, just reroll the strongest dps class overall
so 1) dots should crit 2) intellect should affect spell power (e.g. 5 int = 1 SP for casters, 10 int = 1 SP for melee) 3) OG spells should cost fixed % of total mana right?
8:10 true, But frost mages will be much stronger in the 40 bracket. lv26 32 and 38 all have new frostbolt ranks so we aren't gimped a rank as badly as we are now (lv26 has frostbolt rank 5) Druids also have lv30 and lv38 wrath. Frost and druids are going to be lit in phase 2. Fire mages get lv30 and lv36 rank so fire might be gimped in phase 2 of the lv42 fireball. lv50 frost get frostbolt at lv44 and 50 so frost gets a big W in phase 3 as well, minus the fact that we only make 2x water per craft at lv50 which will suck to deal with for a month. But who knows, maybe mages get mage tables later on that give us percent based water that has no level requirement. That would be sick. Basically a drink that restores 100% mana over 30 seconds. which means your mana ticks scale to your mana pool. No more "restores 1500 mana" when you have a 3000 mana pool problem.
What I want to see is stuff like the AQ20 rank books. Have those be things we can discover too and give the casters the higher ranks of their spells "early"
Blizzard previously had a spell vulnerability system where all spells could deal bonus spell damage based on if the target had a negative spell resistance if they simply brought that back, the war song Gulch trinkets that most people are using would cause a huge damage increase for casters
solution is simple: Give casters a rune that converts %of int to spellpower. Now casters scale with primary stat from gear just like melee. Stack int, more mana, more dmg, problem solved
Dots critting and haste is what makes them have any scaling potential at all. They are useless unless you're in a long fight and direct damage is either limited or restricted. They could also scale dots in brand new ways like a dot doing more damage when the target has higher hp for fast dying mobs.. Direct damage just beats dots in classic. Expect something to shake up dot classes so they're viable.@@chrismcaulay7805
Melee have such an advantage on the meters and not just because of spell issues. Windfury for both factions now means that melee get an absurd boost to damage. I've been enjoying my balance druid, but I just got the poison runes on my rogue and I am almost as strong as my raid-geared druid... at lvl 23. I fear that if they add more and more spellpower, it's going to get to the point where spell casters can just 2-shot any other player, all because dots can't crit.
@@poopnukem4079 that'd be bonkers, but at the same time with 10 mans being the main content in this and probably the next couple of phases I dread having to deal with how important it would be to always have a class with something like that in your group/raid, or worse, how to balance around it.
people suggested this in 2005 when we figured out how terrible most caster epics in MC and Onyxia were. Blizzard didn't care for it then, they don't know how to do it now.
Either universally lower spell resist on all boss encounters or add in spell and armor penetration stats. Which can give a chance to bypass resists but those will likely impact pvp as well.
It’s level 25, and we’ve got months to go. It doesn’t matter who’s on top. Everyone will have plenty of time to get everything they want before the level cap is raised. And if they can’t… it won’t matter by 30 anyway.
What’s sad is that people focus so much on dps meter. I didint install one this time around. The new changes making the game play more fun. Isn’t that what counts?
I think people are so obsessed with being the best these days they stop caring about having fun. Because fun for THEM is being the best. The destination, not the journey. The retail mentality is clearly being applied to classic.
@@stank8460this true for me. I sat back recently and realized I didn’t enjoy raiding… at all. Massive time waste, people can’t do basic WOTLK mechanics. What was driving me is trying to outperform everyone else. Enough that I put together the most painful Ulduars after blizzard decentivized anyone to go there. That was the opposite of fun. In a GAME. But the joke is on me… I did it.
@@DoffyDogg pretty easy to outscale when melee technically have infinite resource to work with compared to the finite resource of mana. But comparing logs at this level especially at the start makes no sense, casters have almost no spell power gear yet & some specs are quite literally bricked by talents(ele sham/spriest)
@@DoffyDogg Because of how their resource works, and sunder armor. Casters don’t get much to amplify their damage on a boss and I think they are addressing with warlock spell power buff rune.
People who think this isn’t an issue are definitely not playing a caster spec. When you can’t get into most of the pve group content because of the class you picked, it IS a big problem.
Fake news. Content is easy to clear. Every BFD, mains and alts, I’ve done… most pugs, have been filled with a full complement of casters. Sounds like an issue (ish-you!).
@@MusicSkeletonKeys so did you play a caster yourself? and tried to get into a pug BFD group without knowing someone? Do that first before you try to be a Karen and say it’s a you problem.
Perhaps the level 25 items with level 60 amounts of spell power, are a sign that level 60 items will have many times that and balance the archetypes at end game.
Mage was in there but not a lead. It was best of all casters... But it was held back by bosses having resistance. It's classic... With new shit.... What were people expecting. Mage only grows in power, warlock only grows in power, most Warlocks stayed Demonology to their own failure in classic. When they could've been fire bombing AQ20 onward.
It was always gonna be cooked, the original vanilla metas were formed from over a decade of polish. Thats why it was so good, all the kinks had been worked out and it was like Chess. You could return at any point in time and the rules and strategies are clearly defined and well known
My mage is 22 and I noticed immediately on my first Deadmines run that my mana was a huge problem. I could easily be #1 or #2 in per fight dps, but overall because of how fast the tank was pulling, I'd be the worst dps in the group overall. Every fight I was oom with 2-3 spells cast, then wanding the rest.
I've cleared BFD as both tanking & dps shaman, healing mage and ret paladin. Honestly as long as I'm having fun and doing the thing, the logs this early just hasn't mattered all that much.
One very important thing tone note is that BFD bosses are level 27, not level 28, so glancing blows are almost negligible. If they were 28, they would be much more substantial. This boosts physical non-hunter dps WAY up However, weapon skill does mitigate this.
Agreed. It was an amazing change to the gameplay. I don't know why it wasn't always like that - especially when Strength and Agility do so much in comparison.
@@randomdeliveryguy Whats the difference between getting 1 shot by Windfury and getting 1 shot by a caster? Also, Chaos Bolt and Arcane Surge literally already do this in SoD if they crit.
@@HYDRAdude Getting armor is way easier than getting magic res. Warriors are also not globaling people from 30-40 yards. Edit: Forgot to answer the actual question: No, it is not.
I think the main issue causing the disparity of dps between casters and melee is that melee can turn on their auto attack for the whole fight while casters have to chose between auto attacking or spells. If casters can auto attack while channeling or casting that would even out the dps meters a lot.
Hopefully they do not open the 20 and 40man raids at 60. Keep it fresh with other remade dungs/raids for smaller sizes. Came to think of it when you mentioned zg buffs.
I think the play would be to add stuff to existing runes so they modify vanilla abilities. Imagine its like how tanking runes are where they do like 4-6 things at once but for other runes too
I think this is a lvl 25 issue to be honest. Like you said, int doesnt add spellpower the way str adds attack power. And theres no modifer (like a rune or something) which creates a modifier like the paladin talents in wrath. Maybe a rune like that is coming soon? 🤔🙏😅
I think it's an overall problem with the underlying code. Melee was always better in Classic was it not? So when your buffing and already better type of damage you get what we have now.
And this isn't even the main problem. Most here are blind to it, because players are driven by selfishness. There is a fundamental issue with SoD's approach to Classic+, and the end result will be the 'retailing' of Classic. A game must be driven by a developer's vision. Blizzard lacks any vision, and players only every destroy they own games. History is about to repeat itself.
This is just not true. Players never asked for the content SoD is providing. No one said "Why isn't BFD a raid" before SoD, yet it's still very fun. Not to mention, one of the most popular MMOs on the market right now, OSRS, is a player-led version of a 20 year old game. It's absolutely possible to make a good game based on player input.
They should add "of the sorcerer" rolls on greens or similar that we see in TBC. Add that roll to the same items that can roll "of the eagle etc) that could help with SP deficiencies. Then they should buff seal of martyrdom. And give a rune to shamans that works similarly like a mana tide totem. This should help casters with mama regen in long fights. Just some thoughts
While the initial argument is not wrong, it is still entirely based on PvE. In PvP, I'd still rather be a mage or lock over any melee dps due to lack of mobility. As he noted in the last ten seconds
Caster design in vanilla is just fucking terrible. No haste, no 2x crit modifier with out talents, dots don’t scale with anything other than sp, you get no effective damage from your main stats, the list goes on. I will never play a caster in this version of the game ever again. I will continue to get my caster fix from wrath warlock.
You are placing way too much value on the dps meter to be honest. When all the content is 5 or 10 man, utility abilities and the ability to heal have a massive impact. It's not just about who does most single target dmg. Worth also mentioning that dps meters don't show how much more dmg your party does because of your buffs. Things like feral Windfury boosted melee dps massively.
Maybe they could make books of certain spell ranks that require level 25 or 40 etc to allow classes missing important spell ranks to have them. Like the level 60 ones just with a lower level requirement and lower spell rank, and it would not be a problem in the next phase.
i thought they stated they wanted to bring all classes more in line with warrior? but looks more like warriors will be doubling everyone else, probably triple casters, once warriors actual rotation and dps stance comes online. i just hope blizz can balance everyone. why not add more armour to mobs?
Casters need to remain as they are because in PvP they are still way too powerful. Melee need gap closers, health pots and powerful weapons in order to keep up… Priest can shield and fear… then kill you at a distance while their homunculas run around…
Melee also have a huuuge benefit from windfury/wild strikes. A 20% chance on ALL attacks to just attack again with extra AP. Imagine having one of your casts just make you spit out 3 fireballs all at once... That could be a fun mage rune...
It should be both. It’s basically as if a shaman put down windfury totem (without having windfury on their main hand). Everyone gets an attack auto attack with more AP
@@blackyvertigo Tank Warrior parses aren't high? They don't even beat struggling casters. Not to mention, "tank" warrior in Classic still uses dual wield. There's almost no difference in throughput for a tank warrior because the only difference is they press taunt and mocking blow.
I think it simply comes down to armor reducing on the bosses, like a rogue is supposed to do alot of damage, but with a warrior next to him he is suddenly a god
The way to 25 and bfd though seems much worse atleast for warrior, I struggle with dmg every couple levels so far and I’m 18 on my warrior. Rogue leveling was easy though and so was mage. Hopefully I figure out why my warrior just sucks atm.
I’ve been doing warrior as well. It’s terrible. The runes, except victory rush, are passive. It’s literally just classic again but worse for warrior. Especially trying to tank. And fanboys keep simping for it because ‘plus’
I used RestedXP Guides to get to level 15 on my Warrior and then kitted myself out in level 15 greens from the AH so I could tank RFC and basically just spam dungeons all the way to 25 since having a healer makes Warriors actually able to do things until they "come online" later in their power scaling. Has worked for me so far but damn I did a few quests after hitting 18 in RFC and it's so slow compared to my Warlock or my Hunter.
@@michaelmohler5409 have your opinion. Watching blizzcon and my guildies go Gaga over the SAME game AGAIN and the low bar for Blizzard /Activision that is my opinion. People I interact with aren’t objective over it. They see it as new. I dont. If you disagree, good! If you like it, great! You’re entitled to your opinion. There isn’t a ‘right’ one.
Itemization and stats, lower level casters bring more utility than dps, because crit and spellpower don't change the effectiveness of polymorph, hibernate, fear, etc. Whereas every weapon upgrade for physical dealers increases damage quite well.
I was very excited about the prospect of new content in SoD, but not so much after my first raid. The boss mechanics do not feel at home in classic. My main problem however is the power creep. These new abilities make classes OP. That's just not classy, especially at level 25. The rune system would be best saved for end game, or additional added content where additional power and abilities are needed.
its lvl 25 content... its all busted depending on where your skills finish, next patch we may see a massive swing, the only two classes i see right now being absolute trash are balance druid and ele shaman, everything else seems workable, and either good solo content/good group/good pvp. I am sorry your class wasn't good in the third, and fine in the other two, can you still send in your voidwalker and solo groups of mobs? can the warrior or hunter?
As a warlock speaking, we really don't have anything to complain about. Fiery-Wrath gear gives us the spell dmg we want and Mana Issues are virtually non existend, since we don't even need to use lifetap on almost all bosses, aslong as we mana pot and only use incinerate and Chaosbolt. It feels like 95% of warlocks and virtually all guides are missing out on this, since most warlocks i see still use corruption or items that have only int/stam on them. With fiery Wrath + only rune spells we can easily outperform average melee dps.
WillE I know you’re alliance main so might explain the lack of attention in the video, but Shaman right now are screwed. A single shock is like 20% of your mana, tanks are having to use lower rank shocks or be OOM, Elemental is a total non-starter. There’s no wand or mana-free spam like Boomkins have now with the Wrath rune. There’s Sham Rage which gives back some mana, but it can’t be taken by tanks. They’re in really dreadful shape and no one is talking about it. It’s one thing being mid in raids, it’s another struggling to kill a single mob without going OOM at 25.
Balance is also a victim of level 25 cap, and i doubt rhey are the only ones. They get one useful talent in imporved wrath, an ok talent in improved moonfire and thats it. There are a lot of sexy talents in the second half of the tree that balance simply cannot have atm.
Hey I'm having lots of fun on my Balance druid in full greens with only arcane spell power for stats. With world buff and consumes I'm sitting at 134 bonus arcane spellpower and they buffed the starfall rune so I'm seeing 340-530 damage on a 6 sec cd. World pvp is fun at least if you don't care about lvl 25 dps charts.
Can't argue with statistics, however as you said in the end of the video there is more to wow than raid dmg, if mages had more dmg for example they could of farm entire zones, buff shamans/locks a bit too much and now they are steamrolling PvP, it will never be good enough for some classes but overall I'd say that Blizz are doing a great job of small balance changes on the fly and I think that it will only get better with levels.
All side effects of Blizzard not having done a PTR so SoD could be shipped to production as soon as possible, in order to get all that juicy subscription money. Everything related to the "discovery" portion of SoD could have been disabled in a PTR to avoid any spoilers, but Blizzard needed an excuse not do it, so they went with it.
Are the challenges casters are currently facing surprising? Not at all. Does it still feel bad? Yes. I think the biggest point WillE makes is that this issue is systemic, and not a result of tuning, and won't really be properly fixed with tuning. By giving (every) melee class bigger, better damage scaling stats combined with extra buttons to press that make instant use of those stats, melee will continue to pull farther away from all spellcasters. Melee scale logarithmically. Casters scale linearly. I do hope the developers find an elegant solution that is not further steps toward making the game feel more like retail. My honest feedback is that classes didn't need more abilities or buttons to push to feel new in most cases. There was a lot of room for existing toolkits to be re-imagined. E.g.: Make seal of command an aura instead of just giving crusader strike/divine storm buttons. Make Wands able to autoattack while casting spells and make wand damage scale with int. Make mage int buff provide spellpower as well as mana. Make succubus special attack apply a debuff that lowers spell resistances. I could go on. Tl;dr: For actual classic plus, we dont need abilities stolen from future expansions. The vanilla kits provide great identity and flavor. Work within that space. It will feel more true to vanilla and can be more easily controlled.
I appreciate this type of min maxing video, but overall runes are fun, dungeons are fun, raids are fun, pvp is fun, I'm having fun, as a SHAMAN As long as ppl aren't picky about forming groups we're good
You hit on some core issues casters have in classic. But who knows how casters will be at 60 with a bunch of additional runes. I'm actually a little worried for hunters getting such big changes so quick. Hunters might be power houses now but might completely fall off by the time we get to 60. Only time will tell. Part of me thinks c'est la vie, that's classic. The other part thinks maybe they can balance caster vs melee... but would that still be classic?
As a pvper this comes across as pve gripe. For instance: my warrior does well in raid but put me in any pvp situation without a healer backing me and wild strikes and I’m toast. I can’t really 1v1 anyone regardless of if I bandage on intimidating shout, kite with hamstring, etc. plus casters will be gods at 60 when they get a full toolkit. Mages don’t even have barrier, locks don’t get their main out (death coil) the list goes on
enhance is messed simply due to gear selection, could be fixed by adding flavor to shamanistic rage saying it makes rockbiter weapon give no threat, but i have no idea where to offer the idea
I'd be 100% for a willpower stat as a druid... but you imagine they balanced the casters around pve to do equal damage to the melee casters would be going around 1 shooting everyone in world pvp. Think making hots n dots be able to crit would have a minor impact on world pvp but improve dps in pve as most casters would benefit from it.
I'm not worried about it, classic as a whole was never about who does the most dps. The only metric that matters is did the boss die and was the raid successful. Who came in first on a graph is next to useless apart from bragging rights.
All they'd need to do is add a couple of runes that improve mana reg, gives a chance to give mana back, or maybe lower spell mana cost and it would be a lot more balanced immediately. They might have planned this for the later level phases already, hopefully.
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Great video Will! Hope you gonna do one on the bot invasion! Sincerely hope that Blizzard did not cut off your B**** by sponsoring a video
Should DoTs crit? I see you focus a lot on balance, which is important, but there is one thing more important than balance, identity and variation.
The question is how to make casters unique while still allowing them to parse properly, have it be fun and not break anything integral to the masterpiece of design that is Vanilla(largely anyways).
As a mage, I may not be top DPS on bosses in BFD, but out in the open world I am on top of the food chain, face tanking and obliterating 8 mobs at a time, and teleporting around the world with ease. All in all, life is good. Everyone don't have to be the best at everything, and raid logs aren't everything either.
Exactly. In dungeons all rogues have is single damage target while others can AOE. Of course rogues should be leading an encounter with only single target dmg then. What else do we have.
Trueeeeee
Yep most melee lack utility so it's a give and take. It'd be unfair if casters had the most dmg too.
THANK YOU
Kinda blows ass when my guild doesn't take a single caster to the guild raids tbh though.
Concerns over raid damage are what starts homogenizing classes.
They should change aspects of encounters to accent the class strengths rather than tuning classes around dps meters
Most players are too stupid to pay attention to anything but damage meters.
Woah woah woah you making sense. We dont do that here
And yet when I made a post on the forums about nerfing kelris because of this I got swarmed with comments of people defending it.
Classes becoming the same started in cata because 10 man heroic raiding needed a wider range of classes to have certain utility spells/ cooldowns more than anything else.
Having encounters which are just good for certain specs doesnt sound all too interesting either (turtle boss in bfd for caster/melee)
@@WillEmmo Personally I think it makes sense and is fine for certain classes to have more damage than others. classes that have a lot of self-sustain or healing options (warlocks, pallies, even druids and dps priests) should probably do less damage than their purity counterparts. the strength is that healers don't have to work as hard keeping them alive through mechanics, or in warlock's case, they can sustain damage for longer than mages because they can't run oom. Sure, speedrun guilds will always take the highest damage classes, but the game shouldn't be balanced around speedruns.
BFD is super easy to clear with any class combo. and I think if they continue with this difficulty trend and an ever-changing game throughout the phases, the game will be a lot more fun than if every class was a damage powerhouse.
I don't think they should focus too heavily on it until the level 50 tier where most classes have their abilities and will be showing closer to end game data. Some classes start of strong and drop off like hunters, others start off weak and end strong once they scale up like warriors. I think they should balance the abilities if their way over/under tuned, but otherwise don't try to hyper balance a mid level experience.
Public service announcement for all my fellow gamers:
Take a deep breath, look around, and smell the lifebloom.
As all things in life, this phase will come and go. Very soon we will be looking back to these moments and phases with fond memories. Nothing lasts forever, just enjoy things as they come and stop always chasing the dragon.
Honestly seeing the sweaties talk in LFG about being well gear for sfk makes me wonder if people are playing this as a job, or as a hobby. It's a classic dungeon, not pre nerf Cara heroic dungeon.
This comment is solid gold. Totally true. Everyone wants everything. Just enjoy the moment
@@Ravenousjoe The WoW community will always be like this sadly.
im crying now
Have 7/7 exp 280+ GS full consumes etc for BFD, what a sad time to be a wow player
Playing mostly casters it's been meh so far, but blizzard has done a lot very quickly. The new content in the game is fun. Overall, this is a very promising start.
Promising start to keep the old player's on the treadmill. No people who dont play wow already are going to give a shit about all these minor changes
Agree (and im a lock so im doing ok) I just dont want the boomy / spriest brothers and so on to spend another vanilla with the same experience performance wise you could get on era
@@WillEmmo i am playing Ele Shaman and cant even get invited into bfd cuz of the lack of dmg, they boosted boomkin so much but only gave shammy a 17% increase in overload
As bad as it feels now, at 40 I bet ele shamans will be gods. @@Zirion123
If S Priests ect were good at 25 once they unlock there full tree they would be broken
I know it’s a me problem but I wish everyone was just a liiiiiittle less sweaty about level 25
Na people are no-lifing this game and now complaining there’s “nothing to do” even though they were hyped for the slower pace smfh lol
i agree, as a ench shaman i get 0 invites to Pugs.
Know your audience man.
The pace of sod has been a God send for me... gives me time to keep up with everyone and try out other classes... as opposed to the massive zerg rush to 60 classic was.
On the other side of the spectrum, I'm so not sweaty I uninstalled.
I just wish they enabled 41y nameplates. It's exceptionally painful to play hunter, because nameplates only appear just barely before you're in the deadzone, meaning you have to move very carefully.
Go to settings - search nameplates - go to the bottom slider for nameplate size - put it on 2.
@@darkyogaming5892 It's not the size that's the problem, lol
This does not fix the issue. Nameplate show health and cast bars etc.
@@darkyogaming5892 Either way, there is no such option in default WoW.
@@darkyogaming5892 My above average brain cells just explode. There are worst indeed.
Look, this video was completely about the classic wow parse mentality that in my opinion broke the game.
SOD brought me to zones I did not visit for ages, made me farm pearls, made me squeeze murlocks for fish oil and above all that - as a dad gamer I didn't feel 'running late' for once.
I love the world pvp, I love the character crafting at a level cap that isn't 60. I don't raid and I really do not have to, perfect.
Oh and I play a priest, and we are doing fine in the outside world.
There's a reason they made Intellect give Spell Damage starting in Cata, it never made sense that the only stats that gave abilities extra numbers were the physical ones. (and Spirit should've given more Healing Power)
Intellect doesn't give you spell power in vanilla, but do you know what gives you spell power in vanilla? Spell power gives you spell power in vanilla
@@Fruske1 we know that. But strength gives you attack power and agility gives you attack power and attack power gives you attack power
so go play cata?
@@domerame5913what an intellectual giant
@@isaiahbley912suck a shadow bolt😊
You can miss me with being upset about a level 25 raid. If its this bad at 60 then we can talk.
We aren’t going to be playing level 60 content for another 6+ months man
This kind of thinking would leave players who enjoy Balance Druid or Shadow Priest to suffer for nearly a year. The phases are 3 months long each. Arbitrarily forcing those players to wait to be able to contribute in a raid is dumb. Blizzard themselves don't think like this, they're already buffing under-performing specs in hopes to make the gap less substantial.
@@kat-rau. This is why they should have tuned the raid, not changed classes, Balance, Shadow and Frost suffered in the raid because the raid has high shadow, nature and frost resistences, and even more importantly, no curse of elements/Shadows
@@grimnir8872 If that was the case, Fire Mage, and Warlock would be thriving, but they aren't. Goes deeper than the raid having too much resistances.
@@kat-rau. People complaining about boomy dmg must not be using Starsurge or something. Shit is hitting for Pyro numbers as an instant cast every 6 seconds w/ essentially zero mana cost.
3:32 to get into it
I think you completely missed the biggest thing that is separating melee and casters at the moment and that is debuff/buff support. Melee have access to pretty much everything in BFD: sunder armour, faerie fire, might, kings, battle shout, mangle debuff, windfury and so on. That is a huge amount of support when you compare to what casters have at the moment which is just arcane intellect. Casters are missing a massive heap of very large damage buffs+debuffs in curse of elements/shadows, shadow weaving, improved scorch, improved shadow bolt, winter's chill, moonkin aura, power infusion, divine spirit, ect. Melee scale extremely well, but caster's also scale fairly well too - most caster's have 100% crit damage talents (boomie, lock, frost mage), fire mage has ignite as well, and the levels of crit casters can reach currently is pathetic as there is no crit secondary on gear at the moment and the ratio of int to spell crit is terrible. Combine that with mana issues if fights go long and bosses having far too much magic resistance for level 25 and its a recipe for sitting way below melee
They have already made significant changes to BFD to improve caster effectiveness. Its not quite enough yet but changing the BFD buff to include spell hit and the reduction of magic/shadow resist shows they are actively working on this.
the resists thing was fixing a colossal blunder stemming from their own lack of understanding of game mechanics. Can't give them much creditr for that.
spell ranks are the problem, then scaling.
@@quineloe your assumptive ideas crack me tf up.
@@seanheisey8645 sorry you don't understand how resists work in classic.
@@quineloe oh I get it, your just a salty ass caster who’s underperforming and it’s stressing you out. So you vent in RUclips comments and pretend to know things. 😂😂😂 imagine living that life 🤮
You can farm corpsemaker right now and even if you don’t get the epic sword in BFD you’ll have a weapon that’s just as good if not better equipped by 29
And if orc it's even better
Where do you farm this?
@@austinjohnson3977in RFK.
@@austinjohnson3977 RFK dungeon. I suggest getting AtlasLoot addon to see loot tables of dungeon and raid bosses and such.
@@austinjohnson3977Corpsemaker comes from the Razorfen Kraul dungeon.
Casters need to be slightly worse in Patchwerk fights for there to be balance since it's strictly better to be able to deal your damage from melee to 30-41 yards away than melee only.
Look I get the frustration of casters not doing as much as melee, but its level 25....Can you guys just enjoy the game for what it is (a classic+ beta). The fact that the classic team is already making changes is a good sign. Be patient and revisit tuning if it stays like this at 60. I mean it really does not matter what the dps is BFD is clearable sub 30 mins so its not the end of the world.
Its prob also from windfury from druids
Also a few bosses had huge resists (they changed this in the recent patch).
Yet still the meters are hugely dominated by physical dps...
@@hoffix1690 Ummm, yes? OP's post talks about how physical has a huge buff brought to every raid that only affects them. And the post above you talks about how some bosses had huge resist values that only lowered spell-based DPS.
No it talks about how those resist values were lowered (but caster dps are still waaay behind, which is what I am posting about).
I'm glad went healing priest. Having a great time
I've been leveling a fire mage, and mana is definitely a concern. It's fine in the open world where I can drink after the fight with my conjured mage water. In dungeons, I find myself wanding a lot.
Yeah doing bfd on my mage I can go for about 30 secs and I'm useless after so it's hard to gauge mage spriest locks atm
@@kylechristie5792evocation
Welcome to classic guys
Bring max level mana potions and use on CD
I think people usually level as frost for that reason, less mana intensive
I’m not too worried about the issues. This is the first of 4 phases, and this is seasonal. Starting off rocky was to be expected, and with how fun it’s already been, I can’t wait to see what else they get up to.
Old data for casters won't really be relevant now that they reduced (massively) magic resistances on the mobs in the raid?
doubled my damage as a balance druid in BFD
Plus what he was looking at still had hunters using bugged scorpids. As of Thursday Korea still did not get the hotfix and it had just barely dropped on EU.
Was only arcane and shadow resist. Did practically nothing for my destro lock. Paired with the BFD boon buff, I'm doing like, 5 dps more
What Would help. is if a Shadowpriest's Rune would say, alter Spirit Tap, causing it to activate when a target you have Damaged is killed, rather than when You personally land a killing blow (Double Spirit and 50% Mana Regen while casting, would be Lovely to help them, maybe even All Priests in this case)
And the party benefits from spirit tap too - keeping casters in the fights
Spirit tap for raid but the priest can’t cast healing spells - ez rune
There is simply not enough spellpower on caster gear. Also, as a Warlock - I dread 50 and early 60 phase, where Incinerate will be resisted or outright immuned on various bosses.
Well, we do have access to many more runes at those points, so its hard to say what the future looks like
Another thing they could do and have made several posts about this on the forms int If that gives some spell power and Heaven forbid the spell credit is you know the same for every class.
It would help liek 10 int for 1 sp and 30 int for 1% Spell crit
I don't feel that sod brings more abilities, it only makes you use the ones that you get from runes > using original spells is just inefficient
Dps in a Dungeon != How good a character is, there is more to the game
Actually in classic…not really lol dungeons and raids are the end game content. The current pvp system doesnt really promote actual pvp
@@Kensber85 yes really :P people freaking out over being lower on DPS a few weeks after launch is just sad imo, if all that matter is dungeon dps performance, just reroll the strongest dps class overall
@@Kensber85Warsong and world PvP are actual pvp
so
1) dots should crit
2) intellect should affect spell power (e.g. 5 int = 1 SP for casters, 10 int = 1 SP for melee)
3) OG spells should cost fixed % of total mana
right?
Bad take
I love SoD so far. It's everything I expected more or less.
8:10 true, But frost mages will be much stronger in the 40 bracket.
lv26 32 and 38 all have new frostbolt ranks so we aren't gimped a rank as badly as we are now (lv26 has frostbolt rank 5)
Druids also have lv30 and lv38 wrath. Frost and druids are going to be lit in phase 2.
Fire mages get lv30 and lv36 rank so fire might be gimped in phase 2 of the lv42 fireball.
lv50 frost get frostbolt at lv44 and 50 so frost gets a big W in phase 3 as well, minus the fact that we only make 2x water per craft at lv50 which will suck to deal with for a month.
But who knows, maybe mages get mage tables later on that give us percent based water that has no level requirement. That would be sick.
Basically a drink that restores 100% mana over 30 seconds. which means your mana ticks scale to your mana pool. No more "restores 1500 mana" when you have a 3000 mana pool problem.
What I want to see is stuff like the AQ20 rank books. Have those be things we can discover too and give the casters the higher ranks of their spells "early"
Good idea damn
Im curious whether these are out at 60 tbh
Blizzard previously had a spell vulnerability system where all spells could deal bonus spell damage based on if the target had a negative spell resistance if they simply brought that back, the war song Gulch trinkets that most people are using would cause a huge damage increase for casters
WillE also missed feral druids and how impactful they are to melee class gameplay.
I wonder what the meters look like with out WF. I bet casters are top
Hunter's don't really use Wf that much tho@@Scottysaweet
This is true, but the WF effect is a constant throughout the game. The difference would be smaller without it though at 25, thats for sure
@@CapOfXav people that play it seriously are definitely melee weaving, which benefits from WF.
@@CapOfXav yea but thats a good thing . pets just busted rn
solution is simple: Give casters a rune that converts %of int to spellpower. Now casters scale with primary stat from gear just like melee. Stack int, more mana, more dmg, problem solved
I’m almost positive they’re going to add in damage over time effects criting like in wrath.
This is already a thing in Classic for many classes. It's typically a talent, but that varies based on class.
is sure hope not... DoTs SHOULD NOT CRIT. They are basically guaranteed damage, they dont need to crit.
Dots critting and haste is what makes them have any scaling potential at all. They are useless unless you're in a long fight and direct damage is either limited or restricted. They could also scale dots in brand new ways like a dot doing more damage when the target has higher hp for fast dying mobs.. Direct damage just beats dots in classic. Expect something to shake up dot classes so they're viable.@@chrismcaulay7805
Maybe spellpower scaling from int?
@@hoffix1690 I think that would work just fine btw
Melee have such an advantage on the meters and not just because of spell issues. Windfury for both factions now means that melee get an absurd boost to damage. I've been enjoying my balance druid, but I just got the poison runes on my rogue and I am almost as strong as my raid-geared druid... at lvl 23. I fear that if they add more and more spellpower, it's going to get to the point where spell casters can just 2-shot any other player, all because dots can't crit.
They should have made overload a groupwide spell-windfury
@@poopnukem4079 that'd be bonkers, but at the same time with 10 mans being the main content in this and probably the next couple of phases I dread having to deal with how important it would be to always have a class with something like that in your group/raid, or worse, how to balance around it.
It would be cool if instead of DoT spells critting, they just got percent increased damage equal to your crit chance
@4:15 poor shadow priests? You mean, poor priests. All these priests need to quest out in the world with that damage as well!
You also forgot the other channel spell from priests: PENANCE!
They can just add the spell power increase to intellect and that will help a lot of with scaling, melee have it why not casters as well.
people suggested this in 2005 when we figured out how terrible most caster epics in MC and Onyxia were. Blizzard didn't care for it then, they don't know how to do it now.
Either universally lower spell resist on all boss encounters or add in spell and armor penetration stats. Which can give a chance to bypass resists but those will likely impact pvp as well.
Pvp feels surprisingly balanced rn aside from the on again off again bonkers hunter pets.
It’s level 25, and we’ve got months to go. It doesn’t matter who’s on top. Everyone will have plenty of time to get everything they want before the level cap is raised. And if they can’t… it won’t matter by 30 anyway.
What’s sad is that people focus so much on dps meter. I didint install one this time around. The new changes making the game play more fun. Isn’t that what counts?
I think people are so obsessed with being the best these days they stop caring about having fun. Because fun for THEM is being the best. The destination, not the journey.
The retail mentality is clearly being applied to classic.
@@stank8460this true for me. I sat back recently and realized I didn’t enjoy raiding… at all. Massive time waste, people can’t do basic WOTLK mechanics. What was driving me is trying to outperform everyone else. Enough that I put together the most painful Ulduars after blizzard decentivized anyone to go there. That was the opposite of fun. In a GAME. But the joke is on me… I did it.
Yes. People far too busy playing "details the game" instead of the game itself
Yes however getting griefed because your class sucks tho is a problem
People don’t have fun in games anymore. People are addicted and will consume until there’s nothing left, always chasing the dragon.
Whats the nameplate addon he is using that shows the healthbar above the enemy?
It wasn't hard to predict this, casters don't scale well early because they need spell damage and physical DPS just needs to get better weapon damage.
then explain why melee also outscale casters in later stages? bullshit system. make int -> spell power or don't give stg bonus dmg.
Even with +sp in every slot, which is doable with random +fire etc. and BFD gear, casters are behind, so that's not really the issue here.
@@DoffyDogg pretty easy to outscale when melee technically have infinite resource to work with compared to the finite resource of mana. But comparing logs at this level especially at the start makes no sense, casters have almost no spell power gear yet & some specs are quite literally bricked by talents(ele sham/spriest)
@@DoffyDogg Because of how their resource works, and sunder armor. Casters don’t get much to amplify their damage on a boss and I think they are addressing with warlock spell power buff rune.
Can you imagine if casters did more dmg than warrior? You would literally only bring them as a tank an have 0 dps warriors.
People who think this isn’t an issue are definitely not playing a caster spec. When you can’t get into most of the pve group content because of the class you picked, it IS a big problem.
Fake news. Content is easy to clear. Every BFD, mains and alts, I’ve done… most pugs, have been filled with a full complement of casters. Sounds like an issue (ish-you!).
@@MusicSkeletonKeys so did you play a caster yourself? and tried to get into a pug BFD group without knowing someone? Do that first before you try to be a Karen and say it’s a you problem.
@@YT-mp7ei , yes, boomie prior to the buff. And that's arguably the worst-case-scenario for a caster.
@@MusicSkeletonKeys You’d have more of a case if you didn’t get pressured into playing feral before the boomie buff lol
Give (fire) Mage a rune to get Meteor spell.
Like replace it with Flamestrike or such.
Perhaps the level 25 items with level 60 amounts of spell power, are a sign that level 60 items will have many times that and balance the archetypes at end game.
Hasn't whole of classic been melee top dmg?
Mage was in there but not a lead.
It was best of all casters... But it was held back by bosses having resistance.
It's classic... With new shit.... What were people expecting.
Mage only grows in power, warlock only grows in power, most Warlocks stayed Demonology to their own failure in classic.
When they could've been fire bombing AQ20 onward.
Yes, but it's not unfair for people to expect Seasons to shake things up.
@@kat-rau.It's been only 3 weeks. They're working on it
Yes this video confuses me
It's level 25
I’ve finally feel comfortable mage healing. Man can we heal. Finding that sweet balance without going oom too quickly has been interesting.
It was always gonna be cooked, the original vanilla metas were formed from over a decade of polish. Thats why it was so good, all the kinks had been worked out and it was like Chess. You could return at any point in time and the rules and strategies are clearly defined and well known
My mage is 22 and I noticed immediately on my first Deadmines run that my mana was a huge problem. I could easily be #1 or #2 in per fight dps, but overall because of how fast the tank was pulling, I'd be the worst dps in the group overall. Every fight I was oom with 2-3 spells cast, then wanding the rest.
Ngl the criticism in this video is just bad
I've cleared BFD as both tanking & dps shaman, healing mage and ret paladin. Honestly as long as I'm having fun and doing the thing, the logs this early just hasn't mattered all that much.
Warriors have always been the kings of classic. They will definitely need to tone down their runes massively for next phase
One very important thing tone note is that BFD bosses are level 27, not level 28, so glancing blows are almost negligible. If they were 28, they would be much more substantial. This boosts physical non-hunter dps WAY up However, weapon skill does mitigate this.
Bring back Intellect from cata where it also increase spellpower
Agreed. It was an amazing change to the gameplay. I don't know why it wasn't always like that - especially when Strength and Agility do so much in comparison.
@@andromidius Because being crit by a 8k fireball and insta dying isn't a nice experience.
@@randomdeliveryguy Being globaled by a warrior is though?
@@randomdeliveryguy Whats the difference between getting 1 shot by Windfury and getting 1 shot by a caster? Also, Chaos Bolt and Arcane Surge literally already do this in SoD if they crit.
@@HYDRAdude Getting armor is way easier than getting magic res. Warriors are also not globaling people from 30-40 yards.
Edit: Forgot to answer the actual question: No, it is not.
I think the main issue causing the disparity of dps between casters and melee is that melee can turn on their auto attack for the whole fight while casters have to chose between auto attacking or spells. If casters can auto attack while channeling or casting that would even out the dps meters a lot.
Imagine if you could Dual-wand, with Wand Fury while also casting
Hopefully they do not open the 20 and 40man raids at 60. Keep it fresh with other remade dungs/raids for smaller sizes. Came to think of it when you mentioned zg buffs.
the 40 man raids is one of the best things about classic
Waaaa, my class isn't performing as good as other classes. Seems kinda whiny xD.
Blizz should add a Rune for new slot like head, that would add a little of Spell Power and Mana regen based on Int. Simple to make and effective.
It doesn't even need to be a rune, they can just add it in they have it later games.
yes it would. meanwhile warriors will slot in a rune for another 20% dmg boost
@@sponster94 it has to be a rune.
I think the play would be to add stuff to existing runes so they modify vanilla abilities. Imagine its like how tanking runes are where they do like 4-6 things at once but for other runes too
@@WillEmmo So how about runes DONT cost mana and scale a little from intellect? DMG up and more mana for other spells.
I think this is a lvl 25 issue to be honest. Like you said, int doesnt add spellpower the way str adds attack power. And theres no modifer (like a rune or something) which creates a modifier like the paladin talents in wrath. Maybe a rune like that is coming soon? 🤔🙏😅
I think it's an overall problem with the underlying code. Melee was always better in Classic was it not? So when your buffing and already better type of damage you get what we have now.
And this isn't even the main problem. Most here are blind to it, because players are driven by selfishness. There is a fundamental issue with SoD's approach to Classic+, and the end result will be the 'retailing' of Classic. A game must be driven by a developer's vision. Blizzard lacks any vision, and players only every destroy they own games. History is about to repeat itself.
This is just not true. Players never asked for the content SoD is providing. No one said "Why isn't BFD a raid" before SoD, yet it's still very fun. Not to mention, one of the most popular MMOs on the market right now, OSRS, is a player-led version of a 20 year old game. It's absolutely possible to make a good game based on player input.
They should add "of the sorcerer" rolls on greens or similar that we see in TBC. Add that roll to the same items that can roll "of the eagle etc) that could help with SP deficiencies.
Then they should buff seal of martyrdom. And give a rune to shamans that works similarly like a mana tide totem. This should help casters with mama regen in long fights. Just some thoughts
While the initial argument is not wrong, it is still entirely based on PvE. In PvP, I'd still rather be a mage or lock over any melee dps due to lack of mobility. As he noted in the last ten seconds
Lols as a Druid/shaman
Caster design in vanilla is just fucking terrible. No haste, no 2x crit modifier with out talents, dots don’t scale with anything other than sp, you get no effective damage from your main stats, the list goes on. I will never play a caster in this version of the game ever again. I will continue to get my caster fix from wrath warlock.
You are placing way too much value on the dps meter to be honest. When all the content is 5 or 10 man, utility abilities and the ability to heal have a massive impact. It's not just about who does most single target dmg. Worth also mentioning that dps meters don't show how much more dmg your party does because of your buffs. Things like feral Windfury boosted melee dps massively.
Yeah....and that feral itself is doing more damage than balance druids who DON'T bring that sort of utility on top of outright more damage.
Yup - not to mention how much hybrids are able to hop in with other roles - for example - boomy is a totally capable healer in a hot spot.
Maybe they could make books of certain spell ranks that require level 25 or 40 etc to allow classes missing important spell ranks to have them. Like the level 60 ones just with a lower level requirement and lower spell rank, and it would not be a problem in the next phase.
Meanwhile, in PVP casters reign supreme, with priests and locks being the most busted of all.
Busted is lock not priest. Rogues, hunters, shamans, and paladins are very powerful.
i thought they stated they wanted to bring all classes more in line with warrior? but looks more like warriors will be doubling everyone else, probably triple casters, once warriors actual rotation and dps stance comes online. i just hope blizz can balance everyone. why not add more armour to mobs?
Casters need to remain as they are because in PvP they are still way too powerful. Melee need gap closers, health pots and powerful weapons in order to keep up… Priest can shield and fear… then kill you at a distance while their homunculas run around…
This is a poor take from what is essentially a low lvl dungeon in a game that is currently being beta tested.
im playing this for fun not for meta, as long as content is chill enough everyone can participate and contribute and clear I dont care about meters
Melee also have a huuuge benefit from windfury/wild strikes. A 20% chance on ALL attacks to just attack again with extra AP. Imagine having one of your casts just make you spit out 3 fireballs all at once... That could be a fun mage rune...
Quick question, damage from Wild Strikes do they count towards the character benefiting from wild strikes or towards the feral druids dps?
It should be both. It’s basically as if a shaman put down windfury totem (without having windfury on their main hand). Everyone gets an attack auto attack with more AP
WCL attributes it to the Feral, Details adds it to both. Unsure about Skada or Recount, haven't used either in years.
@@kat-rau.WCL does not attribute the extra swings to the feral. If that were true the tank warrior parses would not be as high as they are.
@@blackyvertigo Tank Warrior parses aren't high? They don't even beat struggling casters. Not to mention, "tank" warrior in Classic still uses dual wield. There's almost no difference in throughput for a tank warrior because the only difference is they press taunt and mocking blow.
Would be nice if at some point for any class that does spell damage or healing, they give them a rune where they get 1 spellpower per intellect.
I think it simply comes down to armor reducing on the bosses, like a rogue is supposed to do alot of damage, but with a warrior next to him he is suddenly a god
The way to 25 and bfd though seems much worse atleast for warrior, I struggle with dmg every couple levels so far and I’m 18 on my warrior. Rogue leveling was easy though and so was mage. Hopefully I figure out why my warrior just sucks atm.
I’ve been doing warrior as well. It’s terrible. The runes, except victory rush, are passive. It’s literally just classic again but worse for warrior. Especially trying to tank.
And fanboys keep simping for it because ‘plus’
I used RestedXP Guides to get to level 15 on my Warrior and then kitted myself out in level 15 greens from the AH so I could tank RFC and basically just spam dungeons all the way to 25 since having a healer makes Warriors actually able to do things until they "come online" later in their power scaling. Has worked for me so far but damn I did a few quests after hitting 18 in RFC and it's so slow compared to my Warlock or my Hunter.
@@TheDwanius love how you tossed out fanboy and simp so you could have something to fall back on in case someone argued with you😂
@@michaelmohler5409 have your opinion. Watching blizzcon and my guildies go Gaga over the SAME game AGAIN and the low bar for Blizzard /Activision that is my opinion. People I interact with aren’t objective over it. They see it as new. I dont.
If you disagree, good! If you like it, great! You’re entitled to your opinion. There isn’t a ‘right’ one.
@TheDwanius lol no need to be so defensive. No one said your opinion was wrong. I was just commenting on your manipulation tactic is all.
Itemization and stats, lower level casters bring more utility than dps, because crit and spellpower don't change the effectiveness of polymorph, hibernate, fear, etc.
Whereas every weapon upgrade for physical dealers increases damage quite well.
I was very excited about the prospect of new content in SoD, but not so much after my first raid. The boss mechanics do not feel at home in classic. My main problem however is the power creep. These new abilities make classes OP. That's just not classy, especially at level 25. The rune system would be best saved for end game, or additional added content where additional power and abilities are needed.
its lvl 25 content... its all busted depending on where your skills finish, next patch we may see a massive swing, the only two classes i see right now being absolute trash are balance druid and ele shaman, everything else seems workable, and either good solo content/good group/good pvp. I am sorry your class wasn't good in the third, and fine in the other two, can you still send in your voidwalker and solo groups of mobs? can the warrior or hunter?
Anyone know what addon he use to get debuffs above nameplate?
WHAT ADDON ARE YOU USIN TO SEE HOW MUCH HP HAS THE BOSS / MOBS
yes
As a warlock speaking, we really don't have anything to complain about. Fiery-Wrath gear gives us the spell dmg we want and Mana Issues are virtually non existend, since we don't even need to use lifetap on almost all bosses, aslong as we mana pot and only use incinerate and Chaosbolt. It feels like 95% of warlocks and virtually all guides are missing out on this, since most warlocks i see still use corruption or items that have only int/stam on them. With fiery Wrath + only rune spells we can easily outperform average melee dps.
I just got my second character to 25 and apparently my server is only 5% horde now. Fml. Where should i go?
WillE I know you’re alliance main so might explain the lack of attention in the video, but Shaman right now are screwed. A single shock is like 20% of your mana, tanks are having to use lower rank shocks or be OOM, Elemental is a total non-starter. There’s no wand or mana-free spam like Boomkins have now with the Wrath rune. There’s Sham Rage which gives back some mana, but it can’t be taken by tanks. They’re in really dreadful shape and no one is talking about it. It’s one thing being mid in raids, it’s another struggling to kill a single mob without going OOM at 25.
Balance is also a victim of level 25 cap, and i doubt rhey are the only ones. They get one useful talent in imporved wrath, an ok talent in improved moonfire and thats it. There are a lot of sexy talents in the second half of the tree that balance simply cannot have atm.
Hey I'm having lots of fun on my Balance druid in full greens with only arcane spell power for stats. With world buff and consumes I'm sitting at 134 bonus arcane spellpower and they buffed the starfall rune so I'm seeing 340-530 damage on a 6 sec cd. World pvp is fun at least if you don't care about lvl 25 dps charts.
Can't argue with statistics, however as you said in the end of the video there is more to wow than raid dmg, if mages had more dmg for example they could of farm entire zones, buff shamans/locks a bit too much and now they are steamrolling PvP, it will never be good enough for some classes but overall I'd say that Blizz are doing a great job of small balance changes on the fly and I think that it will only get better with levels.
All side effects of Blizzard not having done a PTR so SoD could be shipped to production as soon as possible, in order to get all that juicy subscription money. Everything related to the "discovery" portion of SoD could have been disabled in a PTR to avoid any spoilers, but Blizzard needed an excuse not do it, so they went with it.
Are the challenges casters are currently facing surprising? Not at all. Does it still feel bad? Yes. I think the biggest point WillE makes is that this issue is systemic, and not a result of tuning, and won't really be properly fixed with tuning. By giving (every) melee class bigger, better damage scaling stats combined with extra buttons to press that make instant use of those stats, melee will continue to pull farther away from all spellcasters. Melee scale logarithmically. Casters scale linearly. I do hope the developers find an elegant solution that is not further steps toward making the game feel more like retail.
My honest feedback is that classes didn't need more abilities or buttons to push to feel new in most cases. There was a lot of room for existing toolkits to be re-imagined. E.g.: Make seal of command an aura instead of just giving crusader strike/divine storm buttons. Make Wands able to autoattack while casting spells and make wand damage scale with int. Make mage int buff provide spellpower as well as mana. Make succubus special attack apply a debuff that lowers spell resistances. I could go on.
Tl;dr: For actual classic plus, we dont need abilities stolen from future expansions. The vanilla kits provide great identity and flavor. Work within that space. It will feel more true to vanilla and can be more easily controlled.
I appreciate this type of min maxing video, but overall runes are fun, dungeons are fun, raids are fun, pvp is fun, I'm having fun, as a SHAMAN
As long as ppl aren't picky about forming groups we're good
Are you going to level a healer after your rogue? I'd love to hear your thoughts about healing in this new version.
This is exactly the opposite of what I’d want. Don’t overly homogenize everything, we’re not retail. Let hunters, Ferals & Rogues have their moment
You hit on some core issues casters have in classic. But who knows how casters will be at 60 with a bunch of additional runes. I'm actually a little worried for hunters getting such big changes so quick. Hunters might be power houses now but might completely fall off by the time we get to 60. Only time will tell.
Part of me thinks c'est la vie, that's classic. The other part thinks maybe they can balance caster vs melee... but would that still be classic?
As a pvper this comes across as pve gripe. For instance: my warrior does well in raid but put me in any pvp situation without a healer backing me and wild strikes and I’m toast. I can’t really 1v1 anyone regardless of if I bandage on intimidating shout, kite with hamstring, etc. plus casters will be gods at 60 when they get a full toolkit. Mages don’t even have barrier, locks don’t get their main out (death coil) the list goes on
nah lets ruin the game because casters aren't top dps at lvl 25
@@domerame5913 haha exactly bro
enhance is messed simply due to gear selection, could be fixed by adding flavor to shamanistic rage saying it makes rockbiter weapon give no threat, but i have no idea where to offer the idea
Because it’s not a good idea
@@skymonger302 then give a better one?
@@Cynosarus-Rex Oh, it's his job now to one up your garbage ideas?
@@randomdeliveryguyso many bitter losers like you and the guy youre defending playing this game
@@randomdeliveryguy its called constructive criticism, as opposed to being a bitch
I'd be 100% for a willpower stat as a druid... but you imagine they balanced the casters around pve to do equal damage to the melee casters would be going around 1 shooting everyone in world pvp. Think making hots n dots be able to crit would have a minor impact on world pvp but improve dps in pve as most casters would benefit from it.
I'm not worried about it, classic as a whole was never about who does the most dps. The only metric that matters is did the boss die and was the raid successful. Who came in first on a graph is next to useless apart from bragging rights.
All they'd need to do is add a couple of runes that improve mana reg, gives a chance to give mana back, or maybe lower spell mana cost and it would be a lot more balanced immediately. They might have planned this for the later level phases already, hopefully.