One of Shakespeare's best, and I think that it really improves with original pronunciation. In most of Shakespeare's work I find that the spirit of the text is clearer when pronounced in the way he likely intended it.
Let me not to the marriage of true minds Admit impediments. Love is not love Which alters when it alteration finds, Or bends with the remover to remove. O no! it is an ever-fixed mark That looks on tempests and is never shaken; It is the star to every wand'ring bark, Whose worth's unknown, although his height be taken. Love's not Time's fool, though rosy lips and cheeks Within his bending sickle's compass come; Love alters not with his brief hours and weeks, But bears it out even to the edge of doom. If this be error and upon me prov'd, I never writ, nor no man ever lov'd.
The thing about Shakespeare is, when you hear it in modern English (even modern American English), the power of the words can still hit you. But it's the music, so to speak, that you lose. Just like hearing a poem translated from another language. You can't help but feel something is missing. The OP gives the words that extra rhyme, that extra sound, the extra *music* that modern English (of any kind) just can't.
"even American English". Well you need to watch this actors other videos where he explains the American accent in many ways is closer to the Shakespearian accent. The pronounced 'r' of American dialects can play the rhyming better. I get your original point though. Nothing like the original.
@@aaronthoming8192 true true but every accent has some remnants of the old pronunciation. Certain features are lost in American English that remain in various accents of British English (especially those in the west country) and and vice versa
Seeing as I'm mentioned, it might help to indicate the kind of evidence used. For 'prove/love', a relevant quote is in Ben Jonson's English Grammar 1616, where he says of letter 'o': 'In the short time more flat, and akin to u; as... brother, love, prove'. If Ben's version is tosh, then, so is Jonson's. And as for claiming that Ben is pronouncing 'daum', it's clear from the recording that he is using a short vowel. So I fear the charge of tosh must be pointed in the direction it came from.
John Barton from RSC always reminded we Shakespeare nuts that OP should be learned and it always reminded me of a film"Blackbeard" with Robert Newton and he spoke all of his lines in OP. It sounds like some of the English one hears occassionally in the Ozarks USA. Ben's dad told us how one cobbled the OP from texts,words as written at that time , and I dare say also from the actors study sheets which told them how to pronounce the words--see Folger Library Wash, DC Grrrrrrreat Thanks
I was watching a news documentary about an island in the Chesapeake that is losing land rapidly and vanishing. It was settled in the 1600s. They pointed out their unusual accent. It's a variation of OP. A strong variation. I felt like I was listening to OP for a few moments. There were differences but it was OP esp from the older generation which grew up even more isolated.
@eric5335 It's called The Okracoke Brogue and you can see excerpts of it on RUclips. Here is one: ruclips.net/video/csfyrRqc5TU/видео.html Searching "hoi toiders" will give you more hits (that is how they pronounce "high tide" phonetically spelled).
The second pronunciation makes me think of Hagrid from Harry Potter for some reason, but that could be because of the way he deepened his voice. I love accents.
@johnnyckrock The first and most obvious way is the one this guy alludes to- there are loads of things in the poetry of this time from multiple authors that don't rhyme unless you pronounce them a certain way; if you make a catalogue of all such words you find a definite pattern (even given the erratic Elizabethan spelling!), suggesting a different pronunciation. But of course there was a lot of variation in pronunciation back then to begin with.
@TheRealSmacker - it does indeed, well spotted. We're finding the rhotic R very useful indeed in our world premiere of Hamlet in OP, opening with the Nevada Repertory Company this November 1st
I want to see a sketch where a Shakespearean actor or actress from modern times (or maybe even the early 20th century when the whole accent thing was more of a big deal and actors weren't even allowed to use anything but RP) meets the real Shakespeare, speaking with an accent like this! Would be fun to watch the mutual shock.
I wonder whether you would be willing to do a rendition of this fine work in OP: No man is an islande, intire of it selfe; every man is a peece of the Continent, a part of the maine. If a Clod bee washed away by the Sea, Europe is the lesse, as well as if a Promontorie were, as well as if a Mannor of thy friends or of thine owne were; any mans death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankinde; And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee... - John Donne
There are many southern accents. Some pronounce the R, others do not. To hear someone with rhottic Southern, see Bill Clinton, George Bush, Johnny Cash, Jeff Foxworthy. To hear People who do not say they're r's all the time, see Jimmy Carter, Virgil Goode And Strom Thurmond. All have RUclips videos featuring them speaking.
It would be cool too if the Shakespearean actors are really snooty, thinking they know every little thing. And then Shakespeare's like, "You didn't even make it rhyme." Hahaha! XD
I do not seem to find the reply GGT1337 posted to my comment. 'proved' and 'loved' retained the archaic pronunciation 'proo-ved' and 'loo-ved' in many cases, but for sake of poetic meter the second schwa was often dropped, as Shakespeare's own spelling in -'d often indicates. A modern pronunciation of the SECOND part of those words would still serve the meter quite well.
No, I meant the southern U.S. accent as it is stereotyped by mass media. Posh American Southern is non-rhotic: "Ah do declayuh, suh, I have nevuh seen the lahk." I cited some examples in my comment above which you can search for on youtube to hear them Thurmand is, perhaps the thickest with Goode coming in 2nd and Carter in 3rd. Most people actually down here do say their r's nowadays so, we don't fit that stereotype anymore. Rhotic southern was historically the speech of the working classes.
I stumbled across your Shakespeare monologue and really loved it! We are doing a collaborative project for Shakespeare's birthday and are collecting youtube monologues for April 23. Would you be willing to let us showcase your monologue on our channel? Please send your original video file or a direct link to your monologue on RUclips to: THEDIGITALSTAGE@GMAIL.COM with a message granting us "permission to upload and use your performance as part of the Shakes450 Project." Or if you're feeling ambitious, you can send us a brand-new speech :-) Thank you for your time and talent and we look forward to including you in our collection!
I was almost forgetting. In order to be academically correct, I'd like to point out that my tosh comes from Tertu Nevalainen's AN INTRODUCTION TO EARLY MODERN ENGLISH, 2006, chapter 9, and in particular page 125. If my remarks are tosh, so are his. Best regards.
Hi @GBJersey - I recorded a two hour sermon of Donne's for the Virtual Paul's Cross Project, and so could easily and happily record that for you, wouldn't take a minute. Message me an address to send it to? Ben
@Schizopantheist I thought it sounded like a cross between Welsh and West Country English accents...which do have certain sounds in common with the Irish accents (I'm Irish). Fascinating...but how do they know this is how people spoke back then? Not that I don't find it believable...but how can anyone possibly know this?
@Schizopantheist And we know that pronunciation was very different in the late medieval period from say the 18th century and so a lot can be inferred by scholars of this kind of thing from unmistakeable changes- but you're right, there is Welsh and west country as well as the Irish- and within this 'band' of possible pronunciation of course no one does -really- know the precise sound! But i'm certain the latter would have sounded more familiar to Shakespeare than the former.
It's half true, modern British English was not spoken in Shakespeare's day so they would not have sounded as you probably imagine British people to speak, however the part about southern gentlemen is not true. Genuine Shakespearean English sounds most similar to the rural accents spoken in the UK. It is true however that well-spoken southern American English preserves some older more archaic forms of English that have fallen out of use in the UK, this is what your friend probably meant.
I am sorry, I do not see the contradiction in what you wrote and what I did myself. The quotation you adduced states "akin to u", which at the turn of the 16th century still seems to have had the Continental value similar to Modern English "fruit", albeit shorter. Which is what I was trying to convey in my pseudo-phonetic spelling (I cannot use IPA here). The same goes for doom, of course he used a short sound, but again, "domm" would not have rendered his pronunciation.
I believe you have it backwards. Southern accent is extremely rhotic. The R's are extremely pronounced. A Boston or New England accent is non-rhotic: "I pahked the cah in Hahved Yahd" and so on.
@al1936ful Try listening attentively. In the second example he sounds more or less Irish (roughly). Perhaps you can't tell the difference between an English and an Irish accent. There's no shame in that. I'm English and Americans often think i'm Australian. For instance, Instead of 'proved' he said something like 'pruvd'. Then again you're probably just trolling.
This is similar to today's English!nothing to do I the language of Shakespeare!Any Irishman will read this sonnet better !Today's Irish accent is very close to the language of Shakespeare!
Er, a very nice attempt. Sadly, it's tosh. He pronounced "doom" as (daum), but in fact by Shakespeare's time it had already acquired the modern pronunciation; it was "come", on the other hand, which was still pronounced (koom) the Yorkshire way, or possibly the way the Southern Irish do, and indeed they rhymed. Again, his own example of "loved" and "proved" is pertinent, but wrong: prooved sounded like (proo-ved), and "loved" was (loo-ved).
Sorry, but no. This does not sound like the educated southern gentleman. This sounds more like remote rural Appalachian English. It also sounds like the English of the islands off the coast of Virginia and North Carolina. Neither of which is a prestigious dialect. Stereotypical southern accent is nonrhotic.
Dang. I wan t to hear everything Shakespeare wrote done that way . Now.
One of Shakespeare's best, and I think that it really improves with original pronunciation. In most of Shakespeare's work I find that the spirit of the text is clearer when pronounced in the way he likely intended it.
Let me not to the marriage of true minds
Admit impediments. Love is not love
Which alters when it alteration finds,
Or bends with the remover to remove.
O no! it is an ever-fixed mark
That looks on tempests and is never shaken;
It is the star to every wand'ring bark,
Whose worth's unknown, although his height be taken.
Love's not Time's fool, though rosy lips and cheeks
Within his bending sickle's compass come;
Love alters not with his brief hours and weeks,
But bears it out even to the edge of doom.
If this be error and upon me prov'd,
I never writ, nor no man ever lov'd.
The thing about Shakespeare is, when you hear it in modern English (even modern American English), the power of the words can still hit you. But it's the music, so to speak, that you lose. Just like hearing a poem translated from another language. You can't help but feel something is missing. The OP gives the words that extra rhyme, that extra sound, the extra *music* that modern English (of any kind) just can't.
"even American English". Well you need to watch this actors other videos where he explains the American accent in many ways is closer to the Shakespearian accent. The pronounced 'r' of American dialects can play the rhyming better. I get your original point though. Nothing like the original.
@@aaronthoming8192 true true but every accent has some remnants of the old pronunciation. Certain features are lost in American English that remain in various accents of British English (especially those in the west country) and and vice versa
Due to the isolation of the mountains, West Virginia accent changed very little & today is closest to the original Shakespeare
Seeing as I'm mentioned, it might help to indicate the kind of evidence used. For 'prove/love', a relevant quote is in Ben Jonson's English Grammar 1616, where he says of letter 'o': 'In the short time more flat, and akin to u; as... brother, love, prove'. If Ben's version is tosh, then, so is Jonson's. And as for claiming that Ben is pronouncing 'daum', it's clear from the recording that he is using a short vowel. So I fear the charge of tosh must be pointed in the direction it came from.
Both readings are wonderful but the second really gets me. What a lovely old tongue.
I love OP. It has such a musicality to it.
Terrific rendition. Thank you.
When I finish my novel, I'm hiring Ben Crystal to do the audiobook. I don't care that it's set in Chicago in 2002.
have you?
@@Yiran ugh no... got like 10 drafts and i don't like any of the endings
@@AxmxZ I feel that hard.
Wow, the original pronunciation sounds rather like a modern Irish accent. O_O
I was thinking the same thing, too!
No it does not sound Irish .... it’s bristonian a place in England
No wonder, Ireland was colonized earlier so it's English is much older and ofcourse frozen in time.
John Barton from RSC always reminded we Shakespeare nuts that OP should be learned and it always reminded me of a film"Blackbeard" with Robert Newton and he spoke all of his lines in OP. It sounds like some of the English one hears occassionally in the Ozarks USA. Ben's dad told us how one cobbled the OP from texts,words as written at that time , and I dare say also from the actors study sheets which told them how to pronounce the words--see Folger Library Wash, DC Grrrrrrreat Thanks
Grammar Nazi attack: "reminded we"? Lol!
That was incredible! Wow
An unmitigated joy to see such exploration encouraged and a commensurate level of honesty applied to both form and intent - myth and logic alike.
8 people never loved.
I would love to see a Shakespeare play performed completely in the original dialect.
I was watching a news documentary about an island in the Chesapeake that is losing land rapidly and vanishing. It was settled in the 1600s. They pointed out their unusual accent. It's a variation of OP. A strong variation. I felt like I was listening to OP for a few moments. There were differences but it was OP esp from the older generation which grew up even more isolated.
@eric5335 It's called The Okracoke Brogue and you can see excerpts of it on RUclips. Here is one: ruclips.net/video/csfyrRqc5TU/видео.html Searching "hoi toiders" will give you more hits (that is how they pronounce "high tide" phonetically spelled).
God, I've never been much for poetry, but I actually like Sonnet 116 in it's original accent.
Wonderful!!!
While I couldn't understand the OP (doesn't matter, since I hardly understand the modern), it certainly *feels* more natural and normal and right.
The second pronunciation makes me think of Hagrid from Harry Potter for some reason, but that could be because of the way he deepened his voice. I love accents.
Lovely Master Shakespeare.
@johnnyckrock The first and most obvious way is the one this guy alludes to- there are loads of things in the poetry of this time from multiple authors that don't rhyme unless you pronounce them a certain way; if you make a catalogue of all such words you find a definite pattern (even given the erratic Elizabethan spelling!), suggesting a different pronunciation. But of course there was a lot of variation in pronunciation back then to begin with.
@TheRealSmacker - it does indeed, well spotted. We're finding the rhotic R very useful indeed in our world premiere of Hamlet in OP, opening with the Nevada Repertory Company this November 1st
The second reading is the one with the original pronunciation.
I want to see a sketch where a Shakespearean actor or actress from modern times (or maybe even the early 20th century when the whole accent thing was more of a big deal and actors weren't even allowed to use anything but RP) meets the real Shakespeare, speaking with an accent like this! Would be fun to watch the mutual shock.
Twlight Zone introduced Shakespeare in modern times. He hated the changes TV stufios made to his story & words
The sixth line starts with "That", not "Which", a mistake repeated in both versions.
Just think about it, if Shakespeare were alive today, he'd probably receive a derisive attitude from those with classist attitudes.
I wonder whether you would be willing to do a rendition of this fine work in OP:
No man is an islande, intire of it selfe; every man is a peece
of the Continent, a part of the maine.
If a Clod bee washed away by the Sea, Europe is the lesse, as well as if a Promontorie were, as well as if a Mannor of thy friends or of
thine owne were;
any mans death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankinde;
And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls;
It tolls for thee...
- John Donne
There are many southern accents. Some pronounce the R, others do not. To hear someone with rhottic Southern, see Bill Clinton, George Bush, Johnny Cash, Jeff Foxworthy. To hear People who do not say they're r's all the time, see Jimmy Carter, Virgil Goode And Strom Thurmond. All have RUclips videos featuring them speaking.
Message sent!
It would be cool too if the Shakespearean actors are really snooty, thinking they know every little thing. And then Shakespeare's like, "You didn't even make it rhyme." Hahaha! XD
I do not seem to find the reply GGT1337 posted to my comment. 'proved' and 'loved' retained the archaic pronunciation 'proo-ved' and 'loo-ved' in many cases, but for sake of poetic meter the second schwa was often dropped, as Shakespeare's own spelling in -'d often indicates. A modern pronunciation of the SECOND part of those words would still serve the meter quite well.
Brilliant!
I love everything Ben does. 🥰
❤❤❤❤
No, I meant the southern U.S. accent as it is stereotyped by mass media. Posh American Southern is non-rhotic: "Ah do declayuh, suh, I have nevuh seen the lahk." I cited some examples in my comment above which you can search for on youtube to hear them Thurmand is, perhaps the thickest with Goode coming in 2nd and Carter in 3rd. Most people actually down here do say their r's nowadays so, we don't fit that stereotype anymore. Rhotic southern was historically the speech of the working classes.
Sounds like a Scottish accent. Not complaining, just noticed v
I stumbled across your Shakespeare monologue and really loved it! We are doing a collaborative project for Shakespeare's birthday and are collecting youtube monologues for April 23.
Would you be willing to let us showcase your monologue on our channel?
Please send your original video file or a direct link to your monologue on RUclips to: THEDIGITALSTAGE@GMAIL.COM with a message granting us "permission to upload and use your performance as part of the Shakes450 Project."
Or if you're feeling ambitious, you can send us a brand-new speech :-)
Thank you for your time and talent and we look forward to including you in our collection!
I was almost forgetting. In order to be academically correct, I'd like to point out that my tosh comes from Tertu Nevalainen's AN INTRODUCTION TO EARLY MODERN ENGLISH, 2006, chapter 9, and in particular page 125. If my remarks are tosh, so are his.
Best regards.
Hi @GBJersey - I recorded a two hour sermon of Donne's for the Virtual Paul's Cross Project, and so could easily and happily record that for you, wouldn't take a minute. Message me an address to send it to? Ben
@Schizopantheist I thought it sounded like a cross between Welsh and West Country English accents...which do have certain sounds in common with the Irish accents (I'm Irish). Fascinating...but how do they know this is how people spoke back then? Not that I don't find it believable...but how can anyone possibly know this?
@Schizopantheist And we know that pronunciation was very different in the late medieval period from say the 18th century and so a lot can be inferred by scholars of this kind of thing from unmistakeable changes- but you're right, there is Welsh and west country as well as the Irish- and within this 'band' of possible pronunciation of course no one does -really- know the precise sound! But i'm certain the latter would have sounded more familiar to Shakespeare than the former.
... Unless you were referring to a southern British accent. My bad; I found the context for your comment a moment too soon. :(
I try to understand the words Shakespeare used in his plays,but it's hard for me to understand what he wrote in his plays.
1:30
Becca Stevens True Minds brought me here
It's half true, modern British English was not spoken in Shakespeare's day so they would not have sounded as you probably imagine British people to speak, however the part about southern gentlemen is not true. Genuine Shakespearean English sounds most similar to the rural accents spoken in the UK. It is true however that well-spoken southern American English preserves some older more archaic forms of English that have fallen out of use in the UK, this is what your friend probably meant.
😃👏👏👏
im here because of my performance task in english Hahahah
I am sorry, I do not see the contradiction in what you wrote and what I did myself.
The quotation you adduced states "akin to u", which at the turn of the 16th century still seems to have had the Continental value similar to Modern English "fruit", albeit shorter. Which is what I was trying to convey in my pseudo-phonetic spelling (I cannot use IPA here). The same goes for doom, of course he used a short sound, but again, "domm" would not have rendered his pronunciation.
interhigh?
@al1936ful Well, it's still english back then
Folk in Worricksheer duwn't speak lark that! theere ent oat lark a trace ov a 'celtic' R saand! >
I believe you have it backwards. Southern accent is extremely rhotic. The R's are extremely pronounced. A Boston or New England accent is non-rhotic: "I pahked the cah in Hahved Yahd" and so on.
@al1936ful Try listening attentively. In the second example he sounds more or less Irish (roughly). Perhaps you can't tell the difference between an English and an Irish accent. There's no shame in that. I'm English and Americans often think i'm Australian.
For instance, Instead of 'proved' he said something like 'pruvd'.
Then again you're probably just trolling.
Oh gosh, me too.
Ha! Deal!
My deepest apologies, I appear to have replied to the wrong individual. Please see my two coments in reply to your own. Have a wonderful day.
*that looks on tempests
Needs a rhotic R.
Caca au vomi
C’est quoi ton soucis
@@snihdmgrosse galère 😭😭😭
This is similar to today's English!nothing to do I the language of Shakespeare!Any Irishman will read this sonnet better !Today's Irish accent is very close to the language of Shakespeare!
gahhhh i'm a real sucker for an english accent!
aa
I notice him not clearly pronouncing his final "r" which was a much later development, so he does not convince me. I'll search for another.
I can't really tell any difference in the pronunciation.
Ps. Knowing that his father is the renowned linguist David Crystal, I would have expected something better, in all honesty.
Er, a very nice attempt. Sadly, it's tosh.
He pronounced "doom" as (daum), but in fact by Shakespeare's time it had already acquired the modern pronunciation; it was "come", on the other hand, which was still pronounced (koom) the Yorkshire way, or possibly the way the Southern Irish do, and indeed they rhymed.
Again, his own example of "loved" and "proved" is pertinent, but wrong: prooved sounded like (proo-ved), and "loved" was (loo-ved).
I don' t hear any difference at all! What a disappointment.
Sorry, but no. This does not sound like the educated southern gentleman. This sounds more like remote rural Appalachian English. It also sounds like the English of the islands off the coast of Virginia and North Carolina. Neither of which is a prestigious dialect. Stereotypical southern accent is nonrhotic.
😃👏👏👏