The 2CV is Far Better Than The VW Beetle In This ONE Important Way!
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- Опубликовано: 4 апр 2022
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In this video I put the Citroen 2cv against the classic Beetle to find out which has a better ride, in a very funky way!
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I grew up driving a ‘69 VW Beetle and currently own an ‘88 Citroën 2CV6. You CAN NOT compare suspensions, the 2CV wins hands down by design. I can tell you that the engineering behind the the Citroën was a marvel for such a seemingly simple car. For something so inexpensive to get rural France back on the road, the car offered front wheel drive, on board braking in the front (brake assembly is at the transmission not at the wheel for better handling), four doors for accessibility and seating for 4, a rag top convertible, seats that could be removed for pic nics or the farmers’s goods, and an engine that could get close to 35 miles to the gallon (original criteria was for something closer to 60). While they were never meant to win any races (there’s only 2 cylinders under the hood) the engines were solid work horses. You are driving a “Charleston” version of yellow and black, mine is burgundy and black. The Charleston models were only produced between 1980 through 1990 and have the larger 602 cubic centimeter engines that can produce 29hp. Speaking of “horses,” your translation of 2CV is not correct as it does NOT stand for “Two Steamed Horses,” 2CV stands for 2 CheVaux which means “Two Horses.” Vapeur was only a prototype that never went into production. The car WAS named TPV as a project heading which stood for Tout Petite Voiture or Tiny Car. Hope this helps!
The chevaux (es) was for the french car tax classes..
Citroën 2CV , Renault 4CV etc
the meaning of two horse power were tax horses a beetle was 6 horse power it's not a rational count it's only a TAX count by the amount of CC's the car got
@@philippepetit3105 joke:
It descripes the number of horses which you need in order to tear apart the car in the middle.
@@kuntakinte4333 🤣🤣 in a kind of way you're right
No, he is right. They are Chevaux Vapeur. It was the horsepower a steam engine of that capacity would develop with steam at a standard pressure, something like 9psi, I read somewhere, which is why the number is so low for the engine size. The French used to use this number to tax steam engines and, when cars came along, they used the same capacity to tax car engines. The english steam-engine "indicated horsepower" and RAC Rating was the same idea.
My Dad and I saw a 2CV at a cars and coffee last weekend. Thanks to your videos I was able to educate him on the shift mechanism and the farmer-centric design. He was thoroughly impressed. Thanks Tommy!
A Beetle is a more road going car. It was more practical for highway and travel. The Citroen 2CV was however more spartan in appointment. It was specifically designed for rural and city dwellers where speed was not important. It got you there in its own time. Beetle was simple to maintain and rugged, but it was also an effective cruiser or commuter. On the other hand, 2CV was designed to be cheap and practical. It was very inexpensive mobility and commuter, but not designed for any long travel. Two different approaches and philosophy.
And yet the trusty deuche will still sit happily (once you’ve wound it up!) at 70mph all day on a long run.
The 2CV was a farner's car, the VW was designed for middle class German families to use on the new autobahns. It's like comparing apples to oranges; they are for different uses entirely.
That field is smooth compared to the roads in the UK.
My dad had both and later I just kept the 2cv (in it's Dyane form). It's not just the suspension that is better than the Beetle: The whole car is much more fun at any speed (you really had to press the poor beetle to get any fun out of the teutonic little car), the Citroen design is vastly more versatile. You can fit anything inside a 2cv, two people can sleep comfortably in it's full size bed, I even carried vased trees and 4m (12 feet) bamboo poles... It's incredible design.
We had a Dyane back in the mid 1970's. It was the first car for my parents (or for that matter the first car for their families. My grandparents never owned a car, though my one grandfather was a truck driver by trade when younger. Car ownership in the Netherlands didn't really become universal till the late 1980 / into the 90's. 4 doors made the car vastly easier to live with than a VW Beetle. Also I always got car sick when riding in the back of a Beetle. Probably because the engine vibrations, plus engine smells in the back. No such issues with the Dyane. Neither is fast, both have truly unique engine sounds. Even a non car nerd could easily identify a Beetle or a 2cv/Dyane going by. Both are a bad place to be in if you crash, but the 2cv/Dyane is basically a covered motor cycle. There is very little structure to protect you and all sheet metal and doors are paper thin. We had a blast with ownership until we got rear ended at low speed (under 20 mph) and that totalled the car. After that we go a Volvo 240... MUCH saver. Great memories though of the Dyane. Bright green with the funky multi colored seats.
@@andrelam9898much safer
J'ai eu les deux. Même si l'élément principal du cahier des charges était une voiture populaire, les deux concepts étaient diamétralement opposés.
Une 'tout à l'arrière' et une 'tout à l'avant ''. Avec la première aucun chemin de montagne ne me résistait mais sur la route, surtout par temps de pluie, hum fallait maîtriser l'art du contrebraquage ! Sur route la 2CV était imbattable : qu'il pleuve, qu'il neige, qu'il vente, elle avançait très sûrement et pour peu que l'on veuille la taquiner en descente, prenait des angles de gîte incroyables !
La Cox nous a amené sur les pistes du Haut Atlas au Maroc, sans broncher, suivait les 4x4 sans difficulté, robuste et très amusante à conduire.
La Deuche (2cv) nous servait de voiture à tout faire ville, route, plage, surf, camping.
Deux merveilleuses voitures avec juste l'essentiel. Voitures que je regarde passer avec une certaine nostalgie...
That high tech push/pull rod suspension is still at the forefront of Formula 1 engineering to this day. 👍🏻
And NASA uses the engine on the space shuttle
Col. Philip j. Corso was saying that the suspension was reverse engineered from the roswell craft that was recovered in 1947?
I am joking, obviously.
The Beetle was designed to never need a garage overnight, that was the reason for it's appearance, not aerodynamics. Water will never stay on the body. But yes, the 2CV is an amazing little car. I've owned 2 Beetles and driven my dad's 2 2CVs at one time or another. The Beetle has a super reliable engine if it's serviced regularly as does the Snail.
Funny skit with several subtle gems that take repeat plays to appreciate. Tommy has talent.
I remember a wile back buying a 2CV in France and bringing it back to Los Angeles! I had so much fun! And yes this suspension is the best on the planet!
Actually no cigars :) - The D series - introduced in 1956 - rewrote the book on comfort and suspension design. But for a small car the 2CV has no peers when it comes to comfort. Not the fastest 'horse' in the stable, but an absolute joy to drive. Ours has the 'big' engine with all 602 cc's of French power........
the 2cv and her mythical suspension is a brevet created by Fredinad Porsche ( torsion bars ) the father of the beetle, so if 2Cv is so typical it's due to this great ingenior : Ferdinand Porsche...sorry i break the myth.....take care fellow ; )
@@bilplaymo6121 2CV dont have torsion bars but springs ! (even if torsion bars were on mind on pre-WWII studies, but rejected because didnt match the requirements of the project). Porsche didnt create nothing on beetle, but just plagiarized Tatra97, a Czech car. Obviously Tatra was unable to complain ! Because invasion by Nazi the same year. After WWII, Volkswagen lost his trial against Tatra. Talking about torsion bars, they were used long time before the beetle. For instance, staying with Citroen, they were used on Traction Avant 4 years before the beetle.
@@bilplaymo6121 And Porsche was not a great ingenieur, just an oportunistic convinced nazi. He was even one of the leaders of the THil camp, one of the Nazi forced labor camps in France, were few thousands prisonners were killed.
@@georgiodegrenoble8675 1. torsions bars are made of bars, and./ or spring !! seems a bad level of Mechanic Georgio, 2. .same idea from my side about Citroen André....he just be lucky to dissapeard before WW2...be sure he will be put as same pursuit position than Louis Renault, sorry it's not a white and black world............Porsche Ze best : )
Reminds me of my Volvo S60R which, when set in the suspension’s most aggressive mode, would easily have broken that basket completely even if it was filled with granite rocks.
We have an 85 2CV (along with a couple of D models, XM and AX Cits). CV about the most iconic car model ever made. Our two Great Pyrenees love riding in it with rear seat removed which takes about 5 minutes even if you don't know what you are doing 😀. And speaking of the seats - more comfortable than a lot of so-called 'luxury' cars.
Very envious.🙂
I'm from Argentina, I have a '72 3cv and I've traveled all over the place and even crossed the Andes mountains to chile. You can comfortably go at 80 km/h (7~8 lts every 100km) and it handles better than modern cars around Buenos Aires lunar surface roads. I wish PSA now Stellantis would bring a new c2 or c3 with this suspension layout.
I had 3 of those 2CV as a student, because they cost very little and had an astonishing mileage, just what You need on a student budget. I crossed the Alps where big Mercedes gave up and stood cocking in the roadside. No water to cock in the 2CV, so it went on and on, the first one who was actually a station wagon model loaded with luggage, and only 12 Hp, crawled over, some time at a speed of 12 miles per hour Hour, but it never stopped. Fantastic little machines apart from safety of course, the metal sheets was 0.4 mm and no belts in the first from 1966, the 2 later was with safety-belts (very modern) And the engine got bigger 602 cc, with astonishing 26 Hp. Only problem was rust, so antirust treatment was obligatory.There still exist some nice specimens now sold for 4 times their original price. As one gets older One prefer a little more comfort but Citroen is still my car of choice. Not for race but for an exquisite ride. You never get tired even after 8 hours of continuous drive in my C5😊
Different design for different use nicely shown here.
The next step is to show the Beetle has a higher top speed for driving on the Autobahn
and a higher price at the time of manufacture to be able to do this.
Each met it's design criteria and was a wild success!
Some logical tradeoffs were made and it shows.
Good design is shown in each car.
I never thought I’d see the famous egg test experiment re-run in a 2CV. Thanks for your wonderful work sharing the experience and funkiness of the Citroen snail-car. And good luck!!!
I’m one of the three that watched this, Tommy. Nice job and I love your historic take on these cars. The French out-designed the Germans…fascinating! Granted, the mission statement for thee two cars was quite different.
Interesting to know that the Germans loved this car in his final years more than the french. They bought nearly as much as the folks in france. Even today there were more than 10.000 cars registered in Germany, including my own!!!
Great car and a fabulous idea to show and test the history. Vids like this are much more interesting to watch than the standard car reviews posted on RUclips . Some cars are more than the sum of their parts and it’s great that you get and share this Tommy. Kinda reminds me of some of the first top gear episodes. 👍
That design requirement for the 2CV is very specific.
Check out the van version, I remember them as a post van in Ireland 🇮🇪
i had both of these cars at the same time for several years in the mid 70s. 2 cv and 1302s beetle, 50 mpg (UK) for the 2cv, 26 mpg(UK) for the beetle. however overall running costs, the beetle, plugs points and oil, the Citroën always some thing going wrong one of the most expensive cars to run, i have ever owned, and i had Land rover defenders for 20 years.
to sum it up the beetle has 5 wheel nuts per wheel, the2cv 3.
i worked in the South African automotive industry for some years and met an engineer who had been part of an evaluation team that investigated the possibility of building the 2 horse in RSA. its the most minimalist car ever made. remove 1 part and it ceases to function, it was never adopted. the VW on the other hand had a long production run locally but not upgrading the front suspension from king pin to ball joint in the mid 60s, and never the supper beetle, only to be phased out in 79.
I loved my 2CV. I especially liked the Duesenberg shift.
We owned 2 of those when i was 6years old. Remember them well. They were amazing on rough roads. Prices are high for a good one. Seen them here for 18000euro. Greetings from Belgium
Erik
I drove a 2cv for 7 days around the Med. truly, a great car. if ever I find one in an operational state, I will buy. many in France told me they wished the car was a 4cv, a bit heavier and larger. I agree with this, but c'est la vie.
My parents had one when I was growing up. That suspension makes going around corners ian experience. Removing the roof is a good feature on a sunny day and good when you are stuck in traffic as you can stand on the back seat to see how long the queue is. Unfortunately it's not very secure. Someone broke in by just slashing the roof with a knife.
Keep up the good work Tommy. Always entertaining and often very different from the mainstream. Refreshing in a sea of sameness! Cheers
La deuche et la coccinelle ! Une nouvelle fable de JEAN DE LA FONTAINE ! MERCI POUR VOS VIDÉOS ! CORDIALEMENT , DE FRANCE .
Has many Vw's in my 70 years on the planet (as a one time dune buggy builder decades ago) ,and had 1 2CV, the 2CV by far was a much better car, alot more fun to drive, & better mpg. and didnt have the german smell of death inside, that all those pre-1965 Kraut Kan seats had.
You should have done this with the original 1950s 2CV which were much more smoother and more comfortable.
True, the originals had a smoother ride, due to using floating-weight dampers ("Batteurs"), instead of normal hydraulic shock absorbers on the later cars.
Interesting 🤔
The translation is spot on !
One of my acquaintances at college was offered a 2CV or a Beetle, by his car dealership owning parents, as a college car. Which was very unusual in the UK. Everyone except him and the RN officer, and some Iranian oil people's kids, used the bus. Anyway, David lost his Beetle when a police car pulled out in front of him. The Beetle didn't survive, but David did. After that his parents bought him a Volvo 265. 2CVs do not do well in accidents.
I made my driving license on a '56 VW beetle the gear was unsynchronized changing with double-dutch. 34 years I had diverse 2 CV. This times where the funniest in my live. I changed my domicile two times by the car. Easy to handle, repairing easy, no frills and suspension like a smooth sofa. The French engineers did a good job as Citroen DS 9. Hydraulik suspension.
As an owner of three Geo Metros, I can easily appreciate this car. I would love to take one of these on a drive sometime. I might even have to add one to my fleet. :D
A fun comparison of two lifestyle convertibles.
The ultimate comparison - drive like a crazy Frenchman on a twisting mountain road with the 2CV swaying alarmingly from side to side scary for onlookers, fun inside...
2CV hangs on formidably - a Beetle reaches the limit and goes off backward or turns turtle.... much worse than breaking eggs....
If you had original Michelin X tyres the 2CV would have ridden even better.
If you had an early 2CV it would have been softer again - inertia dampers on each wheel instead of shock absorbers.
I remember a report oin the radio about a classic car rally, through a rock desert, that bloke with the 2CV or commonly more known in Germany as Ente (Duck) , did it multible times becaue it was so fun , before any of the other "racers" made it to the finish line.
It would be even better on the original Michelin radial tyres... Prices in Australia are now $25,000 to $45,000..
More fun than any other vehicle AND super practical.
2CV was made for specific people in france, when Beetle was made for large people of whole world. Citroen didn't aim to export 2CV, otherwise they would have adapted it to international market. The suspension of this car remains the best to our days despite the light engine and the retro look of the car. Some cars are designed to go fast, to show off and pick up women (like ferrari), others are designed to go slowly and confortable in country roads for enjoying landscapes with a big basket for picnic (2CV).
The Austin Maestro featured the hydragas system, with interconnected front and rear suspensions.
LA METRO AUSSI
No, the Maestros had coil springs. You are probably thinking of the Maxi which had interconnected front and rear hydrolastic suspension.Water pushed about in pipes I think. Then they moved to hydragas suspension as you say, which was on the Allegro and I think early metros and MGFs.
Hydrolastic was on the 1100/1300 as well and it was very comfortable with good handling.
Thankyou for mentioning the mighty Maestro in the same company as a 2cv and Beetle.
As a Son of a Beetle Owner, I will admit that the 2CV is a brilliant car (the suspension is one of the best things about the car).
"Nobody needs piano black interior" --said a very wise man
Pierre Jules Boulanger was a genius, I actually daily drive a 1975 2cv6 (called 3cv here) in Argentina.
Mr. Boulanger has been the initiator of 2 revolutionary cars : 2 CV and DS. However, the real genius, in my opinion, is André Lefèbrve who was chief designer for the "Traction Avant (1934, front wheel drive
, unibody design, independant wheels), the car that the infamous Gestapo preferred to Mercedes Benz, 2CV, widely described here and DS (1955, front wheel drive, hydropneumatic suspension, disc brakes on font wheels and a futuristic aerodynamic design compared to the competition, e.g. Chevy BelAir 1955)
Love that you've re-enacted the eggs in a basket thing, thanks.
I love these videos. I would have no clue about this car from France if it weren't for you Tommy.
Iconic and legendary car in Europe.
Tommy, You need a beret, a pullover sweater, and a baguette waving out of the window. Then quote the egg requirements in French.
I love the 2CV.
Et les oeufs étaient emballés dans du papier journal individuel..........
Good morning Tommy!!😃 Cool test run on the field...well done !!
I daily drive a '72 3cv the following model to the 2cv. I'm form Buenos Aires Argentina and roads are worse than that both "asphalted" ones and country roads. You can go 60 km/h through speed bumps. I've been all over my country and even crossed the Andes mountains to Chile. It's like driving a cloud!
Just 7~8 lts of fuel every 100km traveled going cruise speed (80 km/h).
I'm waiting a video or a series going somewhere with the 2cv!
I think I heard once that the dedeuche sold very well in south America, especially in Argentina could you confirm it please?
The 2CV is such a truly unique design-even the boxer engine is unique, as the cyclinders fire simultaneously!-John in Texas
There is a company in Wiltshire England that electrifies them and offers a van. Galvanised chassis and everything. Looks incredible in the video. Only a tad more torque, still in the spirit of the thing.
Good job Tommy. Almost didn't watch it,,,glad I did
At rthe time of introduction of the 2CV in Germany, the car was more expensive than a VW bug. Only when it became the #1 lifestyle vehicle for stufents, it became a common sight on German roads.
Import taxes may explain that, I mean before European Union. VWs were also much more expensive in France at that time.
Brings me back so many good memories.. i laughed a lot.. keep your excellent french accent mon cher.. thanks mate for this one
That was good fun. Nice job Tommy.
A funny side note is that the 2CV has still a german numberplate attached to it from the Region of Fürth in Franken ( Bavaria). So the Citroen must be an import from Germany to the USA.
Nice. In 1981 a friend of me and myself we had a winter challenge. He was driving a 2CV and I had a 1968 Beetle. It was a big fun to drive in 20 cm of snow. And both cars made it. But the 2CV had the better heating.... ☹
Yes, in the beetle you had to open the side window (or door) to stop the front window from fogging up which really sucked in winter
Whenever I see this Citroen 2cv is an automatic Like and comment on this channel. I love your new style of videos. Thank you very much!!
Comme d'habitude, trés interessant, merci Thomas!
C'est magnifique! The 2 CV, although I've never owned one, is near and dear to my heart because it's clear to me that it was engineered "from the inside our"; first that astonishing little, efficient engine that may have been under powered even by 1970s or 1980s standards, is still holding up remarkably well. Yes, it doesn't have power steering or power brakes, but neither did my 77 Super Beetle; second the cabin is quite roomy even if it has those notably silly windows and no air conditioning. The final test is the the French people and millions more people loved this car well after it was no longer in production. Thanks for showing that the 2CV is worth a lot more than just a trip down memory lane. All the best, Colleen Fay.
Fun video Tommy!
How about checking out a Renault 16 TS. It’s another french car with good suspension and ultra-comfortable seats.
There are still some older folk here in Serbia that say:
"A perfect car would have the Mercedes' comfort, BMW's engine and Citroen's suspension"
And Toyota electronics.
Great video! What a fun car.
Thank you
2cv is the best car ever... we used to have red one in 1980 and we were able to fit 2 adults and 3 children : 9, 10 and 16 years... !
I you can take a ride on the later Citroën models with hydropneumatic suspensions don't hesitate. That's a thing of it's own
that’s a super beetle with macpherson strut suspension which is not the same as most standard beetles, but still a better suspension design apparently. Some debate that the standard beetle suspension is better. I’ve never driven a super so I wouldn’t know.
I honestly don't know if it would fare better, but you really needed to do this test with a real beetle, not a super beetle 😃
La fierté de la France cette petite 2CV !
How come that your french 2CV carries a german registration plate?
FÜ = Fürth, a town next to Nuremberg.
The beetle was never designed to drive on dirt roads with eggs. It was the starter car for many german families after the war, who never had a car before that.
Because this american man bought
It in Germany. Citroën 2 cv was sold in Europe and others countries.
Nicely done ...😁
WONDERFUL CARS! - i'VE HAD THREE AND LOVED EACH ONE
Fun car that 2CV. Would love to own a mint one.
That's so crazy much of a difference it is!.
It's a symptom of what's wrong with our society that more people want to watch ab some new Hyundai electric whatever than this!
Don't know why I always thought of clothes iron when looking rear lights of beetle. That's why it looked tough I guess!
Here in Brazil we call them Horse hoofs hahah
I was distracted by Tommy’s enormously long fingers, lol. Cool test, thx for sharing Tommy. Cheers kirk
No Car IS better than the beetle❤...the grandma of Porsche 911.the Duck is funny and nice...thats all...😊
Greate Video, it makes me think why not put that kind of suspention under a Jeep.
I am having a Burton Big Bore 652 cc engine to my 1990 Charleston to replace the 602 cc engine after 185,000 miles. Huge fun. Current top speed 72 mph.. I will get 20% more power and torque.
I actually reached 80MPH in my first 2CV but it was a bit downhill, it also got up and over Hardknott Pass in Cumbria UK with 33% incline in places!
love 2cv me and my dad own two of them they are great cars; live in belgium by the way
Ah la 2 chevaux, quelle bagnole et Tommy, your French is awesome.
The 2 C.V. is such an icon. But a 2 C.V. in rural France is ten times better.
Citroen es reconocido por tener las suspensiones mas suaves del mundo, sin duda el 2CV es una joya!
Important research no doubt
Thanks, Tommy, very interesting, can not help looking at it and comparing it to VW Bug at the time. Both seem light years behind what the Americans were putting out in the 30s and 40s. Watching you rock around that field I am reminded of the terrain the Model T (kind of SUV-like) in the paths before paved roads.
The average American at the time had a lot more money to spend
I love those videos, Tommy! And I'm here to tell you that you could probably become pretty good in French as well ;)
Thanks for that, I got battered by Beetle fans for saying so, eventually they never sat in the back as an adult!
What a great comparison! 😂👍
This was not a fair test. You should have used a vw beetle with the original style trailing arm front suspension, like what the MAJORITY of beetles have. The trailing arm suspension was designed to work better on bumps. The McPherson strut suspension came much later towards the end of beetles story.
I get the feeling you wanted the 2cv to win.
For the record, I like both cars, they are engineering marvels . I wish simple well designed cars were still available to buy new.
The lack of jolting was very good for bad backs, though sadly the flimsy rubber strap sprung seats were enough to ruin one's back undoing all the good of the suspension. Actually the suspension clever though it was - caused a sickness inducing amount of body-roll that could make passengers sick who weren't used to a car leaning over violently when taking a right-angled turn or a steep curve at speed. Every sharp turn felt like the car would tip over. But as you can see in movies of 2CV racing they don't tip over - I think it is possible but very rare. Taken out of a French post war farmer's field they really aren't appropriate in modern day traffic. I've owned 4 of them in the UK and now we really do need air bags and side impact reinforcement as well as roll over protection. The 2CV has none of this. It's about as safe as a cardboard shoe box!
In Germany we have about 3000 deads by traffic and guess, in which cars they're gonna die?
No, ain't no 2cv "cardboardshoebox" car - they died in MERCEDES; AUDI OR BMW!!!
So what car is safer???
You will not die in a 2cv, 'cause it is too slow. You never drive on override lane and you will never do an race, because it is impossible.
By the way, have you ever thought aboout safety when you going on a ride with your bycicle?
Think about it.
In 1985 we bought our first house.
This meant we needed a cheap car.
We bought a 2CV and kept it 8 years , brilliant little car
Very impressive
University French was a long time ago but I question your translation
French is my mother language. Translation is wrong, but funny !
@@pier-alexandreaube9562 yes, I understand,
my grandpa had one of them when he was younger, and he said that the engine was so small that he'd have to push it up hills cause of how little power it had
Happens on this channel after the highway test. Apparently you are supposed to reverse them up hills though
Fun test for my early morning entertainment
I want one of these soooo bad!!! Perfect for us Goblins.
I've been driving a 2cv for 20 years. It's the best!
My first car where CV 2 - 700 CC make in 1968 and buy in ocation for 25.000 BFR in yr 1977
Loved it!
Both brilliant cars 👍
I have seen many people do the egg field test and non of them ever had a ploughed field
But the test would be completely useless with the ploughed field because it would get stuck immediately in The mud
can i be the fourth one watching? lol. very cool! cant wait to see the old Peugeot and its restoration progress. keep it up!