Great video, I’m not a track driver, but a street driver with mostly highway driving running a 0w-20 in the fa24 BRZ. Will be doing an oil analysis 23,000km. Oil and filter changed at 3,500km, 10,000km and 16,000km. Happy to share results with you to compare.
I have oil results if you’re interested? Comparing metals. Your results just about doubled mine. Also, upload your report to chat cpt! Amazing what it can tell you.
There is always going to be very small amounts of wear metals in all cars. Ignoring the driving style, your car is still low mileage and heading towards the end of break-in. This is only one sample and I don't really see anything alarming... do 1400 miles and check again.
I did 4 Blackstones analyses each with ~1K mile intervals on a GR86 that saw only track use and the drives to/from the track (so some 17 events in total). No modifications to engine/cooling - regularly had the dash read out 253-268F oil temps for 15-20 minute sessions. I ran a mix of 5w30 from Motul 8100 and Mobil 1 Synthetic. My aluminium was always between 3-4 but my Iron was at 7 at your 5K miles on the engine and ended with 4 at 6,800 miles. It does seem to drop over time. My Copper was also marginally lower at 1-2. I think UOA is helpful to find that baseline mix for your mods and use but definitely don't rely on it - for this motor in particular - to predict if the motor is about to give up or not; we've now seen 3 failures in the area for tracked cars and they all had clean UOAs. Best of luck to you.
Yeah I get that the motor can go at anytime with good oil results. I’m just doing what I believe is best to keep the motor going while pushing it’s limits. Hopefully a better pickup is in the future for these cars, but even still it can go at anytime. I guess it’s the nature of the beast. Thank you, and good luck also!
@nodrogkam What made you decide to keep car unmodified in the cooling department? I've been advised to keep the oil temps below 250F on track, and I have yet to pull the trigger on any cooling mods. Car is coffee runs + track use mostly. Track use is not all out at this point - alternating between a hot lap and cool down lap every time w/ max 258F oil temps.
@@ajs858 I didn’t want additional things that I’d need to check/monitor/maintain. Within the 86 Challenge community theres no shortage of information about leaks and failures. Ultimately it’s a personal choice and I made my decision on information available to me.
Hey, thanks for the report, i just wan't to warn you that the Tomei baffles (alone) do not prevent starving the pickup, overfilling will definitely help a lot tho. I've yet to see baffles that actually work well on this engine. Glad to see that you will keep the car, and most importantly keep taking it to the track.
The baffle doesn’t solve it 100% but it does help from what I’ve seen. I’m trying to do everything I can to keep it reliable and safe on track. Oil cooler, thicker oil, overfill, and baffle plate… 😅
Tbh its pretty good results considering Florida, 5k track miles, engine is probably still settling in. I agree its a little worrying considering the problem of right g turns causing oil starvation. But I honestly don't think its anything outside the norm considering the usage and much you are beating on the engine. Most cars especially performance ones need around 4-5k miles to start settling in, saw similar oil results in my Elantra N and 370z.
I’d be a little concerned with running 5W40, my understanding is the bearing clearances on these engines are very tight. I believe in Australia(not 100% certain) the manual says 5W30 but here in NA it’s 0W20. Of course with the track use and heat 5W30 makes sense plus knowing it’s the recommended weight elsewhere, but I do think it’s possible to go too far. My friend has an Elantra N and he was saying it uses 0W30 and people tried 5W40 and Blackstone told them to go back due to excessive wear. It’ll be interesting to see what your next oil test says.
I’m hoping with the higher than average oil temp 230ish will thin the oil out enough but still add more protection than the W 30 but we’re going to have to see what the next results say. Thanks for your input!
I just past 5k("street" drivin in the mountains "Mexico") 2 oil changes 1k break-in 3k maintenance 0W-20. No issues considering my areas temps go 90-115 degrees(daily/track). I've honestly overlooked the RTV issue. I think the real concern has been right turns. boxers then have had this issue in the past, asking long experienced boxer/flat-6 enthusiasts. The common answer I get to combating concerns of the metals mentioned and the right turn issue is upgrading the oil pump and using a anti-friction oil additive. Watching track builds that have followed these steps do endurance racing, which I believe shows proof in pudding. Looking on doing the same since the market for these are still cost effective
It would have to be a ton of our TV to clog up the pick up. I would be more concerned with the 0W 20 but if you’re not tracking it I guess you’ll be OK.
Thanks for the update. I wouldn't worry too much at this point about some numbers being slightly above average. To get to an average, by the nature of the calculation, you will always have points above and below the average. Your car being relatively new and mainly used on track would likely alway throw it in the higher than average figures even if it was a regular toyota engine. I have a 23 BRZ and really appreciate your videos about the platform. So far, no track use for me though.
@@phelpsgarage4202 yep, in my opinion that's the best approach and that is what I would do if I were in your shoes. Again, thank you so much for your videos. They are always very informative.
Same car same situation but I also drive the car routinely so I’m at 8,500 miles. I’m going to PittRace in a couple of weeks with Chin racing. Chin racing gives you 40 minutes sessions which is awesome for the driver but hard on the car. I put fresh oil in for every track weekend PP ultra 5w30, ordered a black stone lab test kit for after the track session.
@@phelpsgarage4202 yeah, left it completely stock. I know that increases risks blowing the motor, but I figure if it’s stock I have a better chance of getting replaced under warranty if something goes wrong. I’ll honestly be surprised if it makes it to 60k miles they away I drive and track it, so I figure I’m going for one engine replacement anyway. I’ve also thought about using Ravenol oil, it supposedly builds a stronger film than normal oils that can be sacrificed during starvation periods. Last option, Vipers come with a swinging arm for oil uptake, this I think is the best option, far better than baffles etc. but I don’t want to crack my engine ope. to design and build one for warranty reasons. But I think to find any junked FA24 and go at it.
I would recommend trying to compare results of others on the forums and see where you land. I think there are more people doing UOAs for this engine to see if a trend can be established. Thank you for the contribution to the community.
what oil were you using on that blackstone test? edit: also, with only 5000 miles you are absolutely still in the break-in phase. you will keep having excessive metals in the oil until 15k miles. regardless of how often you change it.
I wonder if the aluminum and iron is from the reduced oil pressure when turning at speed - there are a few guys who have documented this drop in oil pressure while on the track. That said, i think increasing the oil weight and slightly overfilling is about the best thing anyone can do at the moment, seeing how the baffled oil pan hasn't really fixed it. I really dont think the RTV "issue" is even a problem, as there's still plenty of surface area in the strainer for oil to go around. I'm sorry, man. I'm hoping it lasts a very long time. Plus, you've got a big aftermarket community working on this issue as we speak, so i am sure someone will come up with a fix for the oil pressure at some point soon (assuming that is the cause of your relatively higher than normal wear).
When you fully disassemble a Subaru engine you are left with pieces slightly bigger than a grapefruit, how good can that be? Much better is a solid inline 4, or better still an inline 6 like the B58 from BMW
0.02$ here if you're hitting 5k miles just now, I'd say you're getting close to full break in. The elevated metals are probably normal for your mileage and use case. If you were daily driving it as well and had hit 10k with those results, i would worry. But you're breaking in a street engine, on the track.
Hey…. Idk if anyone has tried this yet but, I think we should try 20% Lucas oil stabilizer with a 5w20, I think it will make the oil slosh less, keep everything lubricated longer (oil holding onto parts) so if there is a slight moment when the pickup isn’t getting as much as it needs the parts stay lubricators longer and gives the pickup time to catch-up before catastrophic failure occurs. JUST A THOUGHT…. But I think oil stabilizer and a Baffle is the answer to the starvation. I drift my 22 BRZ and have done 7 events this summer and haven’t even dropped the pan yet to fish out RTV and my car is running strong. But I’m still scared.
My molybdenum has averaged 155 for 3 tests. Street use. Other than that we look to be about the same. I use Motul 0-20. Where you are over the average, it's by small amounts. I'm just under the average, but drive like a grandpa.
Last test was at 27,000. Next test at 33,00. I've been changing the oil every ~3,000 and testing at~6,000. It looks like wear metal accumulation is linear and very relative to how you drive. A good tool to see sudden changes as a relative number per individual. @@phelpsgarage4202
Just finished cars first HPDE event at Willow Spring. Track has a lot of long sweeping right handers. I'm not pulling as many G's as more experienced drivers but I'm going to run a Blackstone report to see what the wear and tear are on the engine. This would be the cars second oil change since break in so it's possible this won't be too accurate since the car hasn't had many oil changes since break in, but it'll still be some nice data to have on hand.
Thank you for sharing the report and your feelings on the results, looking forward to the cooler season and seeing you going out to the track more!
Thanks for watching! Keep everyone updated as we continue pushing forward
Love your videos, I have a GR86 in the U.K. so am watching your tests with a lot of interest, keep up the good work, your a natural at this 👍🏻
Appreciate the kind words!
Thanks for sharing mate
Thank you watching!
Great video, I’m not a track driver, but a street driver with mostly highway driving running a 0w-20 in the fa24 BRZ. Will be doing an oil analysis 23,000km. Oil and filter changed at 3,500km, 10,000km and 16,000km. Happy to share results with you to compare.
Yeah, keep me updated
I have oil results if you’re interested? Comparing metals. Your results just about doubled mine. Also, upload your report to chat cpt! Amazing what it can tell you.
There is always going to be very small amounts of wear metals in all cars. Ignoring the driving style, your car is still low mileage and heading towards the end of break-in. This is only one sample and I don't really see anything alarming... do 1400 miles and check again.
Sweet! Thanks for your input. I’ll go a little bit more on this oil
I did 4 Blackstones analyses each with ~1K mile intervals on a GR86 that saw only track use and the drives to/from the track (so some 17 events in total). No modifications to engine/cooling - regularly had the dash read out 253-268F oil temps for 15-20 minute sessions. I ran a mix of 5w30 from Motul 8100 and Mobil 1 Synthetic. My aluminium was always between 3-4 but my Iron was at 7 at your 5K miles on the engine and ended with 4 at 6,800 miles. It does seem to drop over time. My Copper was also marginally lower at 1-2.
I think UOA is helpful to find that baseline mix for your mods and use but definitely don't rely on it - for this motor in particular - to predict if the motor is about to give up or not; we've now seen 3 failures in the area for tracked cars and they all had clean UOAs. Best of luck to you.
Yeah I get that the motor can go at anytime with good oil results. I’m just doing what I believe is best to keep the motor going while pushing it’s limits. Hopefully a better pickup is in the future for these cars, but even still it can go at anytime. I guess it’s the nature of the beast. Thank you, and good luck also!
@@phelpsgarage4202 yep 100% !
Pay to play. The car is such a hoot.
@nodrogkam What made you decide to keep car unmodified in the cooling department? I've been advised to keep the oil temps below 250F on track, and I have yet to pull the trigger on any cooling mods. Car is coffee runs + track use mostly. Track use is not all out at this point - alternating between a hot lap and cool down lap every time w/ max 258F oil temps.
@@ajs858 I didn’t want additional things that I’d need to check/monitor/maintain. Within the 86 Challenge community theres no shortage of information about leaks and failures.
Ultimately it’s a personal choice and I made my decision on information available to me.
Hey, thanks for the report, i just wan't to warn you that the Tomei baffles (alone) do not prevent starving the pickup, overfilling will definitely help a lot tho. I've yet to see baffles that actually work well on this engine. Glad to see that you will keep the car, and most importantly keep taking it to the track.
The baffle doesn’t solve it 100% but it does help from what I’ve seen. I’m trying to do everything I can to keep it reliable and safe on track. Oil cooler, thicker oil, overfill, and baffle plate… 😅
Tbh its pretty good results considering Florida, 5k track miles, engine is probably still settling in. I agree its a little worrying considering the problem of right g turns causing oil starvation. But I honestly don't think its anything outside the norm considering the usage and much you are beating on the engine. Most cars especially performance ones need around 4-5k miles to start settling in, saw similar oil results in my Elantra N and 370z.
Good to hear. I’m hoping to see better results with my next oil change
Good vid. How many track miles and/or track days do you go between oil changes? Thx.
Probably every other event. 500 miles or so
@@phelpsgarage4202 Thx. 👍
For now you have a base line for further test. It's nice that you got "normal results", but it's normal that you still have a concern about it.
Thank you!!
I’d be a little concerned with running 5W40, my understanding is the bearing clearances on these engines are very tight. I believe in Australia(not 100% certain) the manual says 5W30 but here in NA it’s 0W20. Of course with the track use and heat 5W30 makes sense plus knowing it’s the recommended weight elsewhere, but I do think it’s possible to go too far.
My friend has an Elantra N and he was saying it uses 0W30 and people tried 5W40 and Blackstone told them to go back due to excessive wear.
It’ll be interesting to see what your next oil test says.
I’m hoping with the higher than average oil temp 230ish will thin the oil out enough but still add more protection than the W 30 but we’re going to have to see what the next results say. Thanks for your input!
I just past 5k("street" drivin in the mountains "Mexico") 2 oil changes 1k break-in 3k maintenance 0W-20. No issues considering my areas temps go 90-115 degrees(daily/track).
I've honestly overlooked the RTV issue. I think the real concern has been right turns. boxers then have had this issue in the past, asking long experienced boxer/flat-6 enthusiasts. The common answer I get to combating concerns of the metals mentioned and the right turn issue is upgrading the oil pump and using a anti-friction oil additive.
Watching track builds that have followed these steps do endurance racing, which I believe shows proof in pudding. Looking on doing the same since the market for these are still cost effective
It would have to be a ton of our TV to clog up the pick up. I would be more concerned with the 0W 20 but if you’re not tracking it I guess you’ll be OK.
@@phelpsgarage4202 most definitely wanting to change the oil to 5W-20 5W-30. Just trying to use up my free dealership oil changes. Which will be soon
Thanks for the update. I wouldn't worry too much at this point about some numbers being slightly above average. To get to an average, by the nature of the calculation, you will always have points above and below the average. Your car being relatively new and mainly used on track would likely alway throw it in the higher than average figures even if it was a regular toyota engine. I have a 23 BRZ and really appreciate your videos about the platform. So far, no track use for me though.
Let’s see what the next report says 🤞🏻
@@phelpsgarage4202 yep, in my opinion that's the best approach and that is what I would do if I were in your shoes. Again, thank you so much for your videos. They are always very informative.
@@deniscdyck thank you!
Same car same situation but I also drive the car routinely so I’m at 8,500 miles. I’m going to PittRace in a couple of weeks with Chin racing. Chin racing gives you 40 minutes sessions which is awesome for the driver but hard on the car. I put fresh oil in for every track weekend PP ultra 5w30, ordered a black stone lab test kit for after the track session.
Stock oil system?
@@phelpsgarage4202 yeah, left it completely stock. I know that increases risks blowing the motor, but I figure if it’s stock I have a better chance of getting replaced under warranty if something goes wrong. I’ll honestly be surprised if it makes it to 60k miles they away I drive and track it, so I figure I’m going for one engine replacement anyway.
I’ve also thought about using Ravenol oil, it supposedly builds a stronger film than normal oils that can be sacrificed during starvation periods.
Last option, Vipers come with a swinging arm for oil uptake, this I think is the best option, far better than baffles etc. but I don’t want to crack my engine ope. to design and build one for warranty reasons. But I think to find any junked FA24 and go at it.
Thanks for the update. What class are you hoping to compete in?
TT5/ClubTR
I would recommend trying to compare results of others on the forums and see where you land. I think there are more people doing UOAs for this engine to see if a trend can be established. Thank you for the contribution to the community.
Thank you for watching!
Thanks I will change the oil too every 1000
Miles
Hopefully it helps
what oil were you using on that blackstone test?
edit: also, with only 5000 miles you are absolutely still in the break-in phase. you will keep having excessive metals in the oil until 15k miles. regardless of how often you change it.
5w-30 300v I switched it to 5W 40 and waiting for the results to come back
how did the 5w40 behave?
It did great! I’ll be running 0w40 for the most part here in out
I wonder if the aluminum and iron is from the reduced oil pressure when turning at speed - there are a few guys who have documented this drop in oil pressure while on the track. That said, i think increasing the oil weight and slightly overfilling is about the best thing anyone can do at the moment, seeing how the baffled oil pan hasn't really fixed it. I really dont think the RTV "issue" is even a problem, as there's still plenty of surface area in the strainer for oil to go around.
I'm sorry, man. I'm hoping it lasts a very long time. Plus, you've got a big aftermarket community working on this issue as we speak, so i am sure someone will come up with a fix for the oil pressure at some point soon (assuming that is the cause of your relatively higher than normal wear).
Thanks! I’m hoping she lasts a long time too! I know they’re trying out a different baffle plate now, just waiting on the results 🙏🏻🤞🏻
When you fully disassemble a Subaru engine you are left with pieces slightly bigger than a grapefruit, how good can that be? Much better is a solid inline 4, or better still an inline 6 like the B58 from BMW
A inline turbocharged 4 cylinder would be nice
My 1994 Impreza's, EJ16 didn't like this comment! 😅
Ill be doing my analysis soon with 20k miles with daily and track use.
🤞🏻good luck
0.02$ here if you're hitting 5k miles just now, I'd say you're getting close to full break in. The elevated metals are probably normal for your mileage and use case. If you were daily driving it as well and had hit 10k with those results, i would worry. But you're breaking in a street engine, on the track.
😅 sweet! Thanks for your 2 cents lol
I don't see a need for a 40wt especially when you use a quality 30wt which likely has a HTHS of around 3.2-3.5.
Yeah, I feel slightly the same way, but this way I can run the test to see if there is an improvement or not
What spring rate are ur coil overs
8k front 9k rears
Hey…. Idk if anyone has tried this yet but, I think we should try 20% Lucas oil stabilizer with a 5w20, I think it will make the oil slosh less, keep everything lubricated longer (oil holding onto parts) so if there is a slight moment when the pickup isn’t getting as much as it needs the parts stay lubricators longer and gives the pickup time to catch-up before catastrophic failure occurs. JUST A THOUGHT…. But I think oil stabilizer and a Baffle is the answer to the starvation. I drift my 22 BRZ and have done 7 events this summer and haven’t even dropped the pan yet to fish out RTV and my car is running strong. But I’m still scared.
I’m not sure either.. at least I haven’t heard of anyone doing that. I’m just waiting for a better baffle for now
I think the 5w40 will be better
I like to believe so too.. let’s see what the results say
my right ear feels lonely
I can whisper sweet nothings to it
My molybdenum has averaged 155 for 3 tests. Street use. Other than that we look to be about the same. I use Motul 0-20. Where you are over the average, it's by small amounts. I'm just under the average, but drive like a grandpa.
How many miles?
Last test was at 27,000. Next test at 33,00. I've been changing the oil every ~3,000 and testing at~6,000. It looks like wear metal accumulation is linear and very relative to how you drive. A good tool to see sudden changes as a relative number per individual. @@phelpsgarage4202
Just finished cars first HPDE event at Willow Spring. Track has a lot of long sweeping right handers. I'm not pulling as many G's as more experienced drivers but I'm going to run a Blackstone report to see what the wear and tear are on the engine. This would be the cars second oil change since break in so it's possible this won't be too accurate since the car hasn't had many oil changes since break in, but it'll still be some nice data to have on hand.
Sounds good. Always have something to go off of
I would dump this car after a few more runs. These engines are ticking tb's and not cut out for track use.
😅 I will sell for a C6Z
I would recommend ripping out the engine and transmission, sell it and installing a true Toyota Engine
Or maybe a LS3
So much "garbage" in oil after ONLY 1,000 miles !!! It says everything about Subaru engine 😞
Yeah, let’s hope we can slow down the wear and tear with the 5w40 oil and more time on track.