Since my biography of Col. Boyd came out some 20 years ago, I have read countless "explanations" of the OODA Loop. Yours is far and away the best. You nailed it Robert Coram
Col. John Boyd is without question one of the most interesting people this country has ever produced. “Boyd. the Fighter Pilot who changed the Art of War” by Robert Corum is a compelling, unforgettable biography and is a must read. I was profoundly moved after being exposed to the world of John Boyd and Corum’s book is a great opening window to this great American. You will not be disappointed in the time you spend reading about this fascinating man.
Agreed. Was introduced to it by the happenstance of meeting Corum’s college roommate. Was absolutely astounded and deeply moved upon reading it. I think I’ve read it 8 times now, and I have relatives and friends who have read it also numerous times. It’s that good, and that compelling.
As a SWAT team Sniper of 19 years, Ooda loops are why flash bangs were invented and deployed. We love em. Gives us a tremendous advantage. Reading Wars of the Ancient Greeks by Victor Davis Hanson. Sent to me by an old friend of over 50 years.
Great talk as always Gunny! Love it whenever someone brings up the OODA loop. In conflict resolution and de-escalation, you're taught to use the OODA loop and disrupting it to gain compliance from someone. It is really amazing how effective it is both knowing how to use it and how to disrupt it.
thank you for this one Scott ! Col Boyd was a visionary, right up there with Sun Tzu or von Clauswitz. the OODA loop is a great model for problem solving when there are lots of unknowns and great urgency. Like air to air. Or cyber defense. thank you !
Read the book, "Boyd," about a month ago. I'd never heard of him, but he has to be one of the most fascinating, brilliant military thinkers I've ever read about. I was especially impressed with his transition from fighter tactics to the applications to ground warfare and how much impact his thoughts and theories have had on warfare in general...a truly amazing man.
Scott spot on…love a few more memories of your f15 experience . My dad flew the 100,105 f4, and other stuff. But never got to the f15 or newer stuff. Love to here how good it was(f15).
In a career I just retired after 38+ years, law enforcement. I have seen the OODA Loop work and not work. For those times it did not work was not the fault of the Loop but that of the human. On many occasions I witnessed officers involved in a deadly force situation get stuck in the Observe-Orient phase. They simply could not Decide-Act. As the situation changed they reverted back to observe and never moved forward to Decide-Act. That is when I or another officer on the scene stepped in and terminated the deadly threat since we had already decided how the situation was going to end while others were still stuck.
After HS 66 I was in the Marines 67-70 Electronics, 1st MAW Vietnam, then went to college and learned to fly, mainframe computer system analyst 25 years.
In high school, back around 1981, I was taught IPDE in Driver’s Ed by a wonderful gentleman who was a former California Highway Patrol officer and maintained a “Marine Corps” style haircut. I suspect he may have been a pilot, too. Identify, Predict, Decide, Execute…with regard to driving an automobile safely. Sounds very similar to the OODA loop. Visually scan the driving environment, don’t fixate on any one thing. Identify what you see and what are hazards and potential hazards and situations where hazards could pop up. Predict what the hazards will do and which will be important to safety. Decide your course of action. Execute your decision. Repeat. …something like that.
I wonder if self driving vehicles have this down 100%. I still think treating a 2 ton piece of metal doing 70 mph as equivalent to watching TV on your couch is a dangerous miscalculation.
@@deansawich6250 Just yesterday, in moderate traffic moving 65 mph in nice California weather, 4-lane interstate, I saw a sporty car pass me (in lane 3) on the right at about 80 mph, swing across all 4 lanes and squeeze into a 2 car-length gap in lane 1 until past a van and then swing 2.5 lanes to the right to nearly meet metal-to-metal with another car entering that lane from the opposite side. I was thinking, be ready to hit the brakes when this all goes to hell. But I guess that driver had a good enough OODA loop going that they managed to keep their paint. I think if every vehicle had speed limiting of 100 ft/sec (68 mph) programmed into the engine computer, that no one could access, that these things wouldn’t happen as much. No point in being in a hurry; nobody’s car or motorcycle or truck can go faster than 68. And limit forward acceleration to 8 ft/sec/sec! I think that would make a big reduction in traffic accidents. Even bigger with automatic safe following distance and automatic emergency braking.
The IPDE acronym was also used in defensive driver training for motorcycle riders. I had the same thought that it was much like the OODA Loop. On a motorcycle it does not matter who was in the "right" if you have an accident since the rider is the mostly likely to be injured or killed. The British Army used to have a policy that if a soldier was involved in an accident, they would hold the soldier responsible since he was tasked with defensive driving. An easier acronym to remember was SEE, see, evaluate, execute.
Excellent presentation. We need to upgrade your title to "Professor Gunny". Another essential element in warfare is the concept of "economy of force". Just as with a light if its beam is defused/scattered it can have little effect but concentrate the beam to a laser fine point and it can burn through metal. Love how you had organized your thoughts in advance, presented them in a smooth and efficient manner. Juan does the same thing, Dan not so much so as he tends to ramble on, but eventually gets his point across. A similar field would be "cybernetics" or circular causality.
I'm sure it will sound trite, but what you described is the basis of systems analysis and design in computer systems. I spent 50 years doing that every day of my life.
Please accept my thanks for a brilliant humble well done video. Unfortunately, due to medical issues, I am not an active com, sel/Mel inst aviator and accident investigator which I spent my early days achieving. Aviation is my blood and your content is nothing short of enlightening and energizing no matter the content. Flywire many if not thousands of your faithful subscribers, truly appreciate and value your insight, wisdom and experience in all things related to slipping the surly bonds of earth. I am 52 yo and your humbleness and forthrightness is very refreshing. Blueskies and keep the shiny side up
Excellent topic. Col. Boyd can think much more deeply than I but then can explain things in a way I can understand. Here in Central Ohio we are recovering from an ice storm and now the deep freeze. My hangar door has 1/2 inch of ice covering it and likely cannot open. Today would be a great day to fly but you need ice skates to move on the airport. Like you, I am stuck inside or in the barn with the horses, not even they can go out. Stay warm.
Thanks, DW. I actually went outside in front of the hangar just now to check the ice melt. Some of the ramp is clear, still about 30' in front of the hangar. I knew it was there, was walking gingerly, ready for the slip. When it happened it caught my foot and I was on my face... almost. Jeez.
Well Scott, it was zero with 11 inches of snow yesterday in Michigan, but I digress. Very interesting content and exposure to Col. Boyd. Thanks for exposing it to me. Using those principles I’ve pretty much stayed ‘in the hanger’ for a couple days, too.
I learned a bunch of stuff from this 14min video..., I did not know you live in Texas, I thought you were a neighbor to Airman Browne (hahaha). You put out a ton of information on the Col., Boyd in a short amount of time. I was made aware of the O.O.D.A., loop over 30yrs ago in law enforcement firearms training. Yes, it applies or can apply to just about every facet of life..., we all go thru this loop in one form or another, and don’t even know it..., and many do not make the corrections (myself included) to better effect an outcome... Scott love your videos, and your concise & precise presentation. Thank you sir.
Scott, Scott, Scott- I'm buying you a beer, or a mocha latte fightercino, or whatever. Excellent summary. Tells me how out of date my required reading list is...
Thank you for a great talk! Funny you picked this topic as I have been drilling into the OODA loop for the past few months. Great further insights into John Boyd. Thank you!
Over years of flying I’ve developed my own loop. ODEE: Observe, Decide, Execute and Evaluate It applies daily with risk assessment or in just assessing daily tasks.
One more super great video that could be applied across many different platforms. Currently because I own my own business and I train realtors and coach them I think that it could be applied to their every day operation of how to move forward and how to not get stuck in the here and now because the here and now it’s only here and now lol everything is constantly changing just like you said whether it’s aviation or in business it’s the same thing! Thanks for introducing us to the other loop unfortunately our government should take note of that in dealing with the pandemic so they could find out where they went wrong lol that’s for another story another day but I’m definitely going to incorporate it in my talk this morning with my own group! Truly great video! Thanks again you knocked it out of the park all over again!
Scott ("Gunny"), thanks again for another incredibly informative, instructive, and enlightening video - just when I think your video productions can't get any better, you exceed my expectations. Stay warm and have a good weekend.
Was in eastern Montana not long ago. The FBO put the 182 in a heated hangar overnight but it still took forever for the oil temp to come up at -10 F! Texas is warm!
Thanks for the smile. This one's a keeper. Had to go back and listen again. Have heard of Col. Boyd but unfamiliar with his work. Was especially intrigued by the fusion of the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics and the Human Concept of Reality (Ha! the most unstable concept of the 3 - a variable, not a constant!) I would say the keywords about getting through the OODA Loop are adhering to the truth. (Truth being a constant, not a variable). So much for the BS. It gets canceled out. Have been reminded many times of Fighter Pilot Rule #1. Need to review otherwise. Don't do anything dumb, different or dangerous. Stay safe and healthy...and warm. Thanks for sharing.
Excellent discussion. It reminds me of the Total Quality Assurance teachings of Deming and Juran. They had a similar loop called Plan Do Check Act - PDCA. Eventually you will get to Total Quality.
Good stuff Scott, I visited Wiki for a second course on OODA and Col. Boyd. I suppose I've been somewhat aware of the concepts but never seen them presented so concisely. The balance of that 5-pointed star in "orientation" is what makes or breaks the process, IMHO.
OODA loop, scientific method, life, is like the old burst on target gunnery. Computers seem to move beyond bracketing, but they just do dynamic proactive control faster (more rapid transitions.) The first round on target is computer bracketing on the way down.
Excellent model, and well done for presenting to clearly. Just 2 comments: (1) BS really does sabotage positive outcomes from the loop (2) All humans have blind spots or limiting beliefs they cannot see; these can become barriers to improvement; in 'Observation' there can be observation of habitual thought patterns and what I am believing that get's in the way (such as seeking prestige, fear of failure etc).
I've learned we all have "filters" through which we view the world. These rose-colored glasses are made up of our experience, upbringing, cultural background, etc. Seems if the lenses get too dark or distorted it can alter your view beyond reality.
Been using the OODA Loop since my Navy Nuclear days and more recently in commercial nuclear simulators (with OPS crews)...works for reactor operation and my flying experiences (More recently)
MCDP-1 Warfighting & MCDP-6 Command & Control; both free to find and use and written by those who directly worked with Boyd. As for Destruction & Creation, look to Brahma, Shiva, Vishnu. Note: you can OODA too fast thus bite off on high frequency noise and/or create PIO.
Can also tie Kahneman System 1 / System 2 into this with Klein regarding First Fit which applies to System 1. We run through OODA without realizing it through decisions though we also take OODA deliberately into planning and thinking now too. Appreciate the comment describing this as framework not process nor philosophy.
Scott I knew nothing about this fascinating piece knowledge. In This video you explained a highly complex series of aviation published papers in away we can easily understand. Lets add senior professor to your long list of skills and talents I truly enjoyed your video Bravo again for your research and incredible presentation. Way to put good use a freezing day outside into A hanger seminar day Best wishes From Las Vegas Craig (Sunny and windy today with blue sky’s) Thank you everyone should watch this video. 😇 ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ 5 stars ✨
I sometimes wonder about the PDCA cycle that is often talked in bussiness circles (or was) and its relation to OODA. OODA seems to be wider-ranging than its derivatives...
I can't say this vid left me that impressed with Col. Boyd, at least as far as the decision theory stuff. Everything in the OODA loop was old news to decision theorists, business consultants, and most disciplines of science long before the 1970s. The military, like other insular communities, is often late to adopt concepts from the rest of society and then treats the guy who adopts them as if he invented them. No doubt Boyd was a smart guy and had a lot of influence in US military circles. But he seems to have achieved guru status by telling old ideas to a new audience.
That's a very narrow view. There is nothing new under the sun, just they way someone applies it. All these business folks.... they came up with how to do Maneuver Warfare on the modern battlefield? I don't think so. And you are wrong about how Boyd was treated by the military. Only the US Marines count him as a great thinker, the rest shove his memory to the side. No one likes to be told they are clueless. Thanks for watching.
True, but frankly a distinction without a difference in my mind. I watched all these programs closely because I wanted to fly fighters. Thanks for watching.
Excellent presentation the concept Gunny, and a good brief history of the importance of John Boyd and do-ers instead of be-ers (his terminology) like him. No wonder he never made General. If only you could organize some of the concepts I come up with. My thinking makes Boyd's rapid transitions but my explanations fall far short of yours. I scored a D in my one required math course in college, but I loved "Destruction and Creation."
Wow that is a lot to chew on. Nothing looks new it is a path to follow. It looks like a nuts and bolts plan that cuts through a lot of garbage but it is essential that each step gets taken and in the right order. TY Scott.
Wait, are you saying there are fighter pilots among us who were NOT singularly focused on being fighter pilots??? Every kid in my 3rd grade class wanted to be a fighter pilot, but only one of them was concerned with things like "protecting his vision" while playing baseball or whatever. I always assumed the fact that only one of us wound up being an actual fighter pilot was not a coincidence.
Two points: Boyd's observations / lessons were a bit lost in more modern designs. First in the 'jack of all trades' F-35. State of the art electronics but can't do ground support nearly as well an old A-10 (can't go in the weeds, for a golden BB can take one down), can't loiter long without refueling, can't turn beyond 7G's, little ammo for gun (or has to be carried on a pod), little carrying capacity in stealth configuration, lower mission availability due to heavy reliance on advanced technologies, nutshell not a fan. Other surprise in my eyes is the lag in Western fighter aircraft engine designers to come up multi-vector engines (which Russia's had for decades & now the Chinese as well). Technology & training play large parts in modern air combat but the ability to keep one's nose pointed at an adversary (which a thrust vectoring engine allows) cannot be underestimated.
@@FlyWirescottperdue Appreciate the feedback Mr. Perdue! Due to the current state of affairs in the world & as a former fighter jock yourself an honest evaluation of that bird would be refreshing. Find very ironic the nickname given to it 'Lightning II'. Seems early models are considered unsafe to fly when lightning is present :-P.
I always heard Col Boyd never lost a dogfight and I often wonder if he flew like a mad man, or more like Bob Hoover who was a master of energy management??? (My monies on Mr Hoover but I'd love to know more from someone with more knowledge...)
Not related to your vid...question, why does the B-52 have a trim tab instead of a rudder (anything that small isn't a rudder...it's a trim tab!) It's soooOOooo tiny!
G'day Scott, To be honest, I recognise the "OODA Loop" as being merely "The Nursing Process" with the serial number filed off and a fresh coat of paint. "Assess, Plan, Implement, Evaluate..." That's what the Academics were breathlessly enthusing at us about, in the early 1980s, here in Oz...; and I made myself unpopular for pointing out that their celebrated "Nursing Process" is nothing but THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD OF PROBLEM SOLVING.... (Observe an Anomaly..., Hypothesise possible explanations to account for the Anomaly.., Theorise an Explanation which can be Tested by Experimentation..., Conduct an Experiment intrnded to FALSIFY the Theory...., Assess the Observed Results..., Alter ONE Variable wihin the Setup - and repeat the Experiment...., then repeat the Process until the Results of the Experiment conform with the Prediction/s - and then one may have arrived at a Truth. When I invented the SunFoil, I was consciously applying The Nursing Process to my Car's inability to finish recharging it's Battery before I switched the motor off when I arrive at my destination. Thus my vehicle grew a streamlined Solar Array, and while the Battery lasted 4 years instead of 6 months, the Furlburn dropped by 35%... I NURSED/SCIENCED/"OODA-Looped" my way to a solution which worked... And, now, only 12 years later, not only do both my kids' cars have SunFoils, as does my own, but there are about 40 Copycat DIY Samizdat versions quietly getting around my home town. For the whole backstory on that, as well as Construction Videos for DIY..., backtrack me to my Playlists and look into "The SunFoil Project...." Scroll. I recommend a Mk-7 or Mk-8.... But, the Nursing Process is a lot easier to underconstumble than either the "Scientific Method of Hypothefication" or the "OODA-Loop"...; in my humble opinion. Maybe try Nursing your Aeroplane around the Sky - it certainly can't hurt...(?) ! Such is life, Have a good one... Stay safe. ;-p Ciao !
Thats what is occuring in Ukraine right now. Using independent teams with Anti-Tank Missiles against slow columns of Tanks under Remote Command and Control. Fast reactions teams have advantage againist these stagnant tactics.
@@FlyWirescottperdue true, I do work on them currently F-35, don't have the inverted engine oil capability. Why? Because EA 300L.... Videos on my channel full aerobatic profile. They don't bother me in the least, no nausea, no pass out, no stars nothing. I commented before completing the video so if I missed something it might be obvious.
Passion being flying in war, sounds sick. Flying for peace another matter entirely. Too many young men believing that being a soldier is a glorious thing. In defence forces, yes, in war fighters such as the US who murders innocents all over the world it is anything but.
Since my biography of Col. Boyd came out some 20 years ago, I have read countless "explanations" of the OODA Loop. Yours is far and away the best. You nailed it
Robert Coram
Sir, I am honored! I appreciate that very much! I read your book!
Col. John Boyd is without question one of the most interesting people this country has ever produced. “Boyd. the Fighter Pilot who changed the Art of War” by Robert Corum is a compelling, unforgettable biography and is a must read. I was profoundly moved after being exposed to the world of John Boyd and Corum’s book is a great opening window to this great American. You will not be disappointed in the time you spend reading about this fascinating man.
@jan burden I heartily agree!
One of my favourite books.
Agreed. Was introduced to it by the happenstance of meeting Corum’s college roommate. Was absolutely astounded and deeply moved upon reading it. I think I’ve read it 8 times now, and I have relatives and friends who have read it also numerous times. It’s that good, and that compelling.
Glad to see Col Boyd's work is still being explored. Takes me back a few decades.
As a SWAT team Sniper of 19 years, Ooda loops are why flash bangs were invented and deployed. We love em. Gives us a tremendous advantage.
Reading Wars of the Ancient Greeks by Victor Davis Hanson. Sent to me by an old friend of over 50 years.
Thanks, I'll have to check that out. I like VDH quite a bit. I happen to be reading about Lucetra at the moment.
@@FlyWirescottperdue Found it.... Leuctra🙂
Great talk as always Gunny! Love it whenever someone brings up the OODA loop. In conflict resolution and de-escalation, you're taught to use the OODA loop and disrupting it to gain compliance from someone. It is really amazing how effective it is both knowing how to use it and how to disrupt it.
thank you for this one Scott ! Col Boyd was a visionary, right up there with Sun Tzu or von Clauswitz. the OODA loop is a great model for problem solving when there are lots of unknowns and great urgency. Like air to air. Or cyber defense. thank you !
Read the book, "Boyd," about a month ago. I'd never heard of him, but he has to be one of the most fascinating, brilliant military thinkers I've ever read about. I was especially impressed with his transition from fighter tactics to the applications to ground warfare and how much impact his thoughts and theories have had on warfare in general...a truly amazing man.
Best quote...."Reality doesn't care about your opinion"
I read Boyd years ago...great book and have used the OODA loop in tactical LE operations. Great video.
I admire the character and talent of John Boyd, his ruthless reduction of everything down to fundamentals.
Scott spot on…love a few more memories of your f15 experience . My dad flew the 100,105 f4, and other stuff. But never got to the f15 or newer stuff. Love to here how good it was(f15).
In a career I just retired after 38+ years, law enforcement. I have seen the OODA Loop work and not work. For those times it did not work was not the fault of the Loop but that of the human. On many occasions I witnessed officers involved in a deadly force situation get stuck in the Observe-Orient phase. They simply could not Decide-Act. As the situation changed they reverted back to observe and never moved forward to Decide-Act. That is when I or another officer on the scene stepped in and terminated the deadly threat since we had already decided how the situation was going to end while others were still stuck.
After HS 66 I was in the Marines 67-70 Electronics, 1st MAW Vietnam, then went to college and learned to fly, mainframe computer system analyst 25 years.
In high school, back around 1981, I was taught IPDE in Driver’s Ed by a wonderful gentleman who was a former California Highway Patrol officer and maintained a “Marine Corps” style haircut. I suspect he may have been a pilot, too. Identify, Predict, Decide, Execute…with regard to driving an automobile safely. Sounds very similar to the OODA loop.
Visually scan the driving environment, don’t fixate on any one thing.
Identify what you see and what are hazards and potential hazards and situations where hazards could pop up.
Predict what the hazards will do and which will be important to safety.
Decide your course of action.
Execute your decision.
Repeat.
…something like that.
I wonder if self driving vehicles have this down 100%. I still think treating a 2 ton piece of metal doing 70 mph as equivalent to watching TV on your couch is a dangerous miscalculation.
@@deansawich6250 Just yesterday, in moderate traffic moving 65 mph in nice California weather, 4-lane interstate, I saw a sporty car pass me (in lane 3) on the right at about 80 mph, swing across all 4 lanes and squeeze into a 2 car-length gap in lane 1 until past a van and then swing 2.5 lanes to the right to nearly meet metal-to-metal with another car entering that lane from the opposite side. I was thinking, be ready to hit the brakes when this all goes to hell. But I guess that driver had a good enough OODA loop going that they managed to keep their paint.
I think if every vehicle had speed limiting of 100 ft/sec (68 mph) programmed into the engine computer, that no one could access, that these things wouldn’t happen as much. No point in being in a hurry; nobody’s car or motorcycle or truck can go faster than 68. And limit forward acceleration to 8 ft/sec/sec! I think that would make a big reduction in traffic accidents. Even bigger with automatic safe following distance and automatic emergency braking.
The IPDE acronym was also used in defensive driver training for motorcycle riders. I had the same thought that it was much like the OODA Loop. On a motorcycle it does not matter who was in the "right" if you have an accident since the rider is the mostly likely to be injured or killed. The British Army used to have a policy that if a soldier was involved in an accident, they would hold the soldier responsible since he was tasked with defensive driving. An easier acronym to remember was SEE, see, evaluate, execute.
Thank you for the Boyd introduction, very impressive individual.
Excellent presentation. We need to upgrade your title to "Professor Gunny". Another essential element in warfare is the concept of "economy of force". Just as with a light if its beam is defused/scattered it can have little effect but concentrate the beam to a laser fine point and it can burn through metal. Love how you had organized your thoughts in advance, presented them in a smooth and efficient manner. Juan does the same thing, Dan not so much so as he tends to ramble on, but eventually gets his point across.
A similar field would be "cybernetics" or circular causality.
We’re frozen up down here in The hill country outside of Bandera. Stay warm Scott🤠👍
I'm sure it will sound trite, but what you described is the basis of systems analysis and design in computer systems. I spent 50 years doing that every day of my life.
Please accept my thanks for a brilliant humble well done video.
Unfortunately, due to medical issues, I am not an active com, sel/Mel inst aviator and accident investigator which I spent my early days achieving. Aviation is my blood and your content is nothing short of enlightening and energizing no matter the content. Flywire many if not thousands of your faithful subscribers, truly appreciate and value your insight, wisdom and experience in all things related to slipping the surly bonds of earth.
I am 52 yo and your humbleness and forthrightness is very refreshing.
Blueskies and keep the shiny side up
Excellent topic. Col. Boyd can think much more deeply than I but then can explain things in a way I can understand.
Here in Central Ohio we are recovering from an ice storm and now the deep freeze. My hangar door has 1/2 inch of ice covering it and likely cannot open. Today would be a great day to fly but you need ice skates to move on the airport. Like you, I am stuck inside or in the barn with the horses, not even they can go out.
Stay warm.
Thanks, DW. I actually went outside in front of the hangar just now to check the ice melt. Some of the ramp is clear, still about 30' in front of the hangar. I knew it was there, was walking gingerly, ready for the slip. When it happened it caught my foot and I was on my face... almost. Jeez.
Well Scott, it was zero with 11 inches of snow yesterday in Michigan, but I digress. Very interesting content and exposure to Col. Boyd. Thanks for exposing it to me. Using those principles I’ve pretty much stayed ‘in the hanger’ for a couple days, too.
I learned a bunch of stuff from this 14min video..., I did not know you live in Texas, I thought you were a neighbor to Airman Browne (hahaha). You put out a ton of information on the Col., Boyd in a short amount of time. I was made aware of the O.O.D.A., loop over 30yrs ago in law enforcement firearms training. Yes, it applies or can apply to just about every facet of life..., we all go thru this loop in one form or another, and don’t even know it..., and many do not make the corrections (myself included) to better effect an outcome...
Scott love your videos, and your concise & precise presentation.
Thank you sir.
Put in terms of a computer program:
Life is spaghetti code
OODA is a basic subroutine used over and over.
An expert system by definition
You piqued my interest to learn more of Boyd and OODA, Thanks.
Glad to hear it!
Scott, Scott, Scott- I'm buying you a beer, or a mocha latte fightercino, or whatever.
Excellent summary. Tells me how out of date my required reading list is...
Thank you for a great talk! Funny you picked this topic as I have been drilling into the OODA loop for the past few months. Great further insights into John Boyd. Thank you!
Over years of flying I’ve developed my own loop.
ODEE: Observe, Decide, Execute and Evaluate
It applies daily with risk assessment or in just assessing daily tasks.
This is the basis of the scientific process. Another great exponent of this kind of thinking was the physicist Richard Feynman. Great video as always.
Great explanation as always!
One more super great video that could be applied across many different platforms. Currently because I own my own business and I train realtors and coach them I think that it could be applied to their every day operation of how to move forward and how to not get stuck in the here and now because the here and now it’s only here and now lol everything is constantly changing just like you said whether it’s aviation or in business it’s the same thing! Thanks for introducing us to the other loop unfortunately our government should take note of that in dealing with the pandemic so they could find out where they went wrong lol that’s for another story another day but I’m definitely going to incorporate it in my talk this morning with my own group! Truly great video! Thanks again you knocked it out of the park all over again!
Thanks Dave! Glad you liked it.
My dad was a 105 guy also 355 ft 65-67. Did 110 missions they were all heros. If they did the thud.
Scott ("Gunny"), thanks again for another incredibly informative, instructive, and enlightening video - just when I think your video productions can't get any better, you exceed my expectations. Stay warm and have a good weekend.
Was in eastern Montana not long ago. The FBO put the 182 in a heated hangar overnight but it still took forever for the oil temp to come up at -10 F! Texas is warm!
But not for us... you get used to what you get used to.
Thanks for the smile. This one's a keeper. Had to go back and listen again. Have heard of Col. Boyd but unfamiliar with his work. Was especially intrigued by the fusion of the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics and the Human Concept of Reality (Ha! the most unstable concept of the 3 - a variable, not a constant!)
I would say the keywords about getting through the OODA Loop are adhering to the truth. (Truth being a constant, not a variable). So much for the BS. It gets canceled out.
Have been reminded many times of Fighter Pilot Rule #1. Need to review otherwise.
Don't do anything dumb, different or dangerous. Stay safe and healthy...and warm.
Thanks for sharing.
Excellent discussion. It reminds me of the Total Quality Assurance teachings of Deming and Juran. They had a similar loop called Plan Do Check Act - PDCA. Eventually you will get to Total Quality.
Very Interesting
The best and most useful lecture I could imagine!
Golden, period.
I love this video. Thank you. Scott.
Good stuff Scott, I visited Wiki for a second course on OODA and Col. Boyd. I suppose I've been somewhat aware of the concepts but never seen them presented so concisely. The balance of that 5-pointed star in "orientation" is what makes or breaks the process, IMHO.
OODA loop, scientific method, life, is like the old burst on target gunnery. Computers seem to move beyond bracketing, but they just do dynamic proactive control faster (more rapid transitions.) The first round on target is computer bracketing on the way down.
Here is an impressively intelligent presentation. Bravo!
Brilliant, thank you! This inspires me to learn more.
Yes!!! Thanks!!!
Excellent model, and well done for presenting to clearly. Just 2 comments: (1) BS really does sabotage positive outcomes from the loop (2) All humans have blind spots or limiting beliefs they cannot see; these can become barriers to improvement; in 'Observation' there can be observation of habitual thought patterns and what I am believing that get's in the way (such as seeking prestige, fear of failure etc).
Very true!
I've learned we all have "filters" through which we view the world. These rose-colored glasses are made up of our experience, upbringing, cultural background, etc. Seems if the lenses get too dark or distorted it can alter your view beyond reality.
It seems to me that OODA Loop or the Time Cycle Loop, is really a mental model.
Of course!
Great explanation. Something to think about in our daily flying lives.
👍☑️ Excelent as usual Scott, never cease to amaze with your insightful, clear and concise content.
Similarly, defensive practices use: Observe, Identify, Predict, Decide and Act.
I’m still trying to keep straight and Level - HA!
Gotta run that loop faster!
Thank you, Scott. Valuable stuff.
Been using the OODA Loop since my Navy Nuclear days and more recently in commercial nuclear simulators (with OPS crews)...works for reactor operation and my flying experiences (More recently)
MCDP-1 Warfighting & MCDP-6 Command & Control; both free to find and use and written by those who directly worked with Boyd. As for Destruction & Creation, look to Brahma, Shiva, Vishnu. Note: you can OODA too fast thus bite off on high frequency noise and/or create PIO.
Can also tie Kahneman System 1 / System 2 into this with Klein regarding First Fit which applies to System 1. We run through OODA without realizing it through decisions though we also take OODA deliberately into planning and thinking now too. Appreciate the comment describing this as framework not process nor philosophy.
Scott
I knew nothing about this fascinating piece knowledge. In This video you explained a highly complex series of aviation published papers in away we can easily understand.
Lets add senior professor to your long list of skills and talents
I truly enjoyed your video
Bravo again for your research and incredible presentation.
Way to put good use a freezing day outside into
A hanger seminar day
Best wishes
From Las Vegas Craig
(Sunny and windy today with blue sky’s)
Thank you everyone should watch this video.
😇
⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ 5 stars ✨
I sometimes wonder about the PDCA cycle that is often talked in bussiness circles (or was) and its relation to OODA.
OODA seems to be wider-ranging than its derivatives...
I can't say this vid left me that impressed with Col. Boyd, at least as far as the decision theory stuff. Everything in the OODA loop was old news to decision theorists, business consultants, and most disciplines of science long before the 1970s. The military, like other insular communities, is often late to adopt concepts from the rest of society and then treats the guy who adopts them as if he invented them. No doubt Boyd was a smart guy and had a lot of influence in US military circles. But he seems to have achieved guru status by telling old ideas to a new audience.
That's a very narrow view. There is nothing new under the sun, just they way someone applies it. All these business folks.... they came up with how to do Maneuver Warfare on the modern battlefield? I don't think so. And you are wrong about how Boyd was treated by the military. Only the US Marines count him as a great thinker, the rest shove his memory to the side. No one likes to be told they are clueless. Thanks for watching.
@@FlyWirescottperdue No Air Force representatives attended his funeral services!!
I think this must be where Frank Sinatra got his inspiration for his song, (That's Life).
Well Said.
4:02: The YF-17, NOT the F-18, was “in the running”; the US Navy & USMC liked the YF-17 & so helped Northrop evolve it in to the F-18.
True, but frankly a distinction without a difference in my mind. I watched all these programs closely because I wanted to fly fighters. Thanks for watching.
This is how neural networks and AI works. Isn't it?
I think this can be applied to our north central Texas ice event and drivers.
Excellent presentation the concept Gunny, and a good brief history of the importance of John Boyd and do-ers instead of be-ers (his terminology) like him. No wonder he never made General. If only you could organize some of the concepts I come up with. My thinking makes Boyd's rapid transitions but my explanations fall far short of yours. I scored a D in my one required math course in college, but I loved "Destruction and Creation."
Maybe I can figure out how to translate Dulin speak,)
This seems to be how the scientific method works. In its pure form.
Wow that is a lot to chew on. Nothing looks new it is a path to follow. It looks like a nuts and bolts plan that cuts through a lot of garbage but it is essential that each step gets taken and in the right order. TY Scott.
Wait, are you saying there are fighter pilots among us who were NOT singularly focused on being fighter pilots??? Every kid in my 3rd grade class wanted to be a fighter pilot, but only one of them was concerned with things like "protecting his vision" while playing baseball or whatever.
I always assumed the fact that only one of us wound up being an actual fighter pilot was not a coincidence.
Not a coincidence!
Excellent
Good video I cat tell you do a lot of deep thinking thank you.
You know what’s funny is Scott would take down any of us in that bonanza no matter what fighter they put our butt in 😂
it is a mess in Dallas
Yes, I’m East of Blueridge.
Two points: Boyd's observations / lessons were a bit lost in more modern designs. First in the 'jack of all trades' F-35. State of the art electronics but can't do ground support nearly as well an old A-10 (can't go in the weeds, for a golden BB can take one down), can't loiter long without refueling, can't turn beyond 7G's, little ammo for gun (or has to be carried on a pod), little carrying capacity in stealth configuration, lower mission availability due to heavy reliance on advanced technologies, nutshell not a fan. Other surprise in my eyes is the lag in Western fighter aircraft engine designers to come up multi-vector engines (which Russia's had for decades & now the Chinese as well). Technology & training play large parts in modern air combat but the ability to keep one's nose pointed at an adversary (which a thrust vectoring engine allows) cannot be underestimated.
Don’t get me started in the F35. Folks would say I’m doing clickbait.
@@FlyWirescottperdue Appreciate the feedback Mr. Perdue! Due to the current state of affairs in the world & as a former fighter jock yourself an honest evaluation of that bird would be refreshing. Find very ironic the nickname given to it 'Lightning II'. Seems early models are considered unsafe to fly when lightning is present :-P.
3:14 ". whatever.."
😂😂
I always heard Col Boyd never lost a dogfight and I often wonder if he flew like a mad man, or more like Bob Hoover who was a master of energy management???
(My monies on Mr Hoover but I'd love to know more from someone with more knowledge...)
Well now, that was unexpected! You don’t happen to also do videos on quantum mechanics or gravity, do you?
I guess I could do that. Gravity is easier than QM.
Not related to your vid...question, why does the B-52 have a trim tab instead of a rudder (anything that small isn't a rudder...it's a trim tab!)
It's soooOOooo tiny!
How ironic that the US as a nation is now so far outside the loop. Playing catchup badly. About time.
What's up with these February freezes in DFW? Hope you're out flying again.
It is our winter.. normally 3 days at a time.
Genius
OODA-RvV......love this but what is the result vs. value invested...Putin is looking at this now...thanks Scott!
G'day Scott,
To be honest, I recognise the "OODA Loop" as being merely "The Nursing Process" with the serial number filed off and a fresh coat of paint.
"Assess, Plan, Implement, Evaluate..."
That's what the Academics were breathlessly enthusing at us about, in the early 1980s, here in Oz...; and I made myself unpopular for pointing out that their celebrated "Nursing Process" is nothing but
THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD OF PROBLEM SOLVING....
(Observe an Anomaly..., Hypothesise possible explanations to account for the Anomaly.., Theorise an Explanation which can be Tested by Experimentation..., Conduct an Experiment intrnded to FALSIFY the Theory...., Assess the Observed Results..., Alter ONE Variable wihin the Setup - and repeat the Experiment...., then repeat the Process until the Results of the Experiment conform with the Prediction/s - and then one may have arrived at a Truth.
When I invented the SunFoil, I was consciously applying The Nursing Process to my Car's inability to finish recharging it's Battery before I switched the motor off when I arrive at my destination.
Thus my vehicle grew a streamlined Solar Array, and while the Battery lasted 4 years instead of 6 months, the Furlburn dropped by 35%...
I NURSED/SCIENCED/"OODA-Looped" my way to a solution which worked...
And, now, only 12 years later, not only do both my kids' cars have SunFoils, as does my own, but there are about 40 Copycat DIY Samizdat versions quietly getting around my home town.
For the whole backstory on that, as well as Construction Videos for DIY..., backtrack me to my Playlists and look into "The SunFoil Project...." Scroll.
I recommend a Mk-7 or Mk-8....
But, the Nursing Process is a lot easier to underconstumble than either the "Scientific Method of Hypothefication" or the "OODA-Loop"...; in my humble opinion.
Maybe try Nursing your Aeroplane around the Sky - it certainly can't hurt...(?) !
Such is life,
Have a good one...
Stay safe.
;-p
Ciao !
It's nor messy. It's unnecessarily superfluous. Military thinking at It's finest (or worst).
Thats what is occuring in Ukraine right now.
Using independent teams with Anti-Tank Missiles against slow columns of Tanks under Remote Command and Control.
Fast reactions teams have advantage againist these stagnant tactics.
Is that 4QR in the back ground?? It has the same paint.
Nope. That’s my Husky. Juan Browne’s is 4QR.
@@FlyWirescottperdue Looks great, the TWIN of 4QR, hehe
Sounds Frenchy ?
All right, I do like me an outside loop, does that count? 😁
Try it... not a good idea in a modern fighter... can you tell me why?
@@FlyWirescottperdue true, I do work on them currently F-35, don't have the inverted engine oil capability. Why? Because EA 300L.... Videos on my channel full aerobatic profile. They don't bother me in the least, no nausea, no pass out, no stars nothing.
I commented before completing the video so if I missed something it might be obvious.
@@FlyWirescottperdue Red out.
@@fantabuloussnuffaluffagus I tried, it wasn't there.... I believe it was a -3G...
@@JSFGuy Did you do a full 360 degrees at -3G? From what airspeed? From the top or the bottom?
It's how all alpha males live their entire life... Lol 🤷🤓😉👉🔰
That was talk. But No loop at All.
Lets Go Brandon!
Passion being flying in war, sounds sick.
Flying for peace another matter entirely.
Too many young men believing that being a soldier is a glorious thing. In defence forces, yes, in war fighters such as the US who murders innocents all over the world it is anything but.
You Sir, should not forget Fighter Pilot rule #1
A bla bla loop
Correction - I'm cooking Sunday🤣🤣🤣 February 6, 2022. With the snow I was thinking this was Saturday. 🏂🏂🏂