Another lesson we all can learn from the story of Herodias is that anger is dangerous and often deadly whenever it is unchecked and used carelessly. It can cloud out judgment, leading us to do foolish things such as revenge and murder. Thank you for this wise and timely message from the Holy Bible and from God.
As you soon found out, during your research, Herod's extended family is pretty complicated. I am very grateful to my daughter Mari, who worked tirelessly beside me, getting it all figure out, and who created the chart I use in this video.
Thank you for such a detailed presentation. Historical context is often missing in many sermons. The breakdown of goal vs desire helps us to fully understand Herodias and ourselves. This story is often used as an example of extreme sin and is often glossed over or left out. I have always been facinated by it, feeling the story had so much more to teach us. You fleshed that out. Thank you!
Thank you for taking time to write those encouraging and insightful words, I so appreciate it. Yes, I have also long been fascinated with Herodias’s story. It is comfortable, in a way, to hit the centrifuge button with biblical stories and out spin the good guys and the bad guys. But, when we do that, we lose a lot of the spiritual and emotional complexity of these real life accounts. There is a lot to learn from the stories preserved in scripture that can help us navigate our own lives with wisdom. Herodias’s story is one of those narratives that goes a lot deeper than many have given it time for. There is another video on this channel called “Goals and Desires,” in the “Other Stuff to Think About” channel, that goes a little deeper into this core issue that affects us all. Grace and peace, Joanne
Herod and Herodias are very interesting people to me, and the role they both played in John the Baptist’s life, and also Jesus’s life is quite telling. I think they could easily stand in for a number of politicians we have today.
@@GraceandPeaceJoanne Thank you Ma'am see there is lots of teaching on woman of the Bible and live the History aswell .Acurae Viewing from South Africa 🇿🇦❤ I have my notification button on God bless 🙏🏼
What do you mean by desires blocked by God? That doesn't make sense. Are you saying God blocked their desires for redemption? God doesn't do that. He wants all to repent and trust in him.
Thank you for asking--this is kind of a long answer, but here goes. at 8 minutes I explain how God was opening the way to repentance and rescue for both Herod and Herodias. Repentance would have been hard and felt humiliating. They would have had to end their unrighteous union. To continue in it was an offence before God--not even so much that they had divorced their spouses for unrighteous reasons, but that Herod Antipas had taken his brother's wife. Herodias had political ambitions, as did Herod Antipas, but John the Baptist's public denouncement of their marriage was thwarting both of them. John spoke with God's voice to them. In that way, God was blocking/thwarting the advancement of their desires, their ambition, for political gain through a call to repentance that would have saved their souls. At about 8:35 I go to the book of James to talk about the lure of sin welling up in our hearts and then about goals and desires. We can tell when our unhealthy goals and desires are being thwarted because we get angry, we grow bitter, we become manipulative and deceitful. I have another video, "Goals and Desires" that talks more about this ruclips.net/video/jcGCTL9AoS8/видео.html At about 11:00 I show how Herodias hardened her own heart, refusing to benefit from John the Baptist being so nearby and easily accessible. Instead, she nursed her bitterness and waited for a chance to get rid of him. Here she now had two blocked desires--she was being thwarted from her political ambitions through an unrighteous marriage by John the Baptist's public outcry (the voice of God with a call to repentance) and now she was being blocked by her husband Herod Antipas who did want to get rid of the Baptist but was afraid to do it. I return to that them at about 14 minutes into the video. 19 minutes in (and I think this is the phrase you are asking about, specifically) I start talking about people (like Herodias and possibly Herod Antipas) who either don't know God is near, or don't believe it, or if the -do- believe God is there, they possibly think God doesn't care. But God does care. There are times when God thwarts or blocks our attempts to get what we want (our desires) when we are using unrighteous means. Sometimes God blocks or thwarts us in trying to get or do something we want, even if our desire is otherwise a good one, or our means are otherwise acceptable, but it is not the right path for us. The apostle Paul had the good sense to understand the Spirit was preventing him from going to Asia with the Gospel. He wasn't sure why God was blocking him, but he trusted God. (Acts 16:6-8) We can see the direct natural consequences of Herod Antipas's and Herodias's refusal to repent. First, Herod's former father-in-law waged a disastrous-for-Herod war against him. Herod should probably have seen that coming. That weakened Herod's political influence, showed him up as an ineffectual ruler at best, and a liability to Rome, and it was costly to his own coffers, let alone Rome's. It made it easy for Agrippa to suggest Caligula get rid of Herod, and of course Herodias had no choice but to follow, her reputation was permanently tarnished as having chosen the loser. By no means did God, or would God, block our desire for redemption. It was God's severe mercy to send John the Baptist with his message of repentance. But Herod and Herodias would not listen. Instead they became infuriated over being thwarted by the Baptist (and therefore by God) in their political ambitions through unrighteous means. A long answer, but I hope it addresses your question.
I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that desires require other's help? ruclips.net/video/bp3VeLCMGAc/видео.html People with various addictions have no need of anyone's help in fulfilling their desires. Many people today are addicted to drugs and/or alcohol. To fulfill those wrong desires they only need the drugs or the alcohol. Unless you're implying that they need the people that make those products. But that wouldn't work either as they can make their own alcohol, for instance. (There are many other sinful desires but I'm just using this as an example. Some desires do require the help of others, as you stated.) By your definition then, an alcoholic has a "goal" to drink and not a desire. That...seems strange... Perhaps it's because of your definition of desire. It seem somewhat constrained. James talked about desire leading to sin. James 1:15. Alcoholism is a sin in many ways, so the biblical definition of desire seems to be less constrained than yours. I don't know... Not trying to call you out here as I generally very much enjoy your videos. They make me think. I also enjoy your feminine perspective of the women of the Bible. I've learned much from you regarding Michal, for instance. BTW, would you consider a commentary on the daughter of David, Thamar (Tamar) and her horrible treatment at her Brother's hand? I searched and it doesn't seem you've discussed this yet. In any case, thank you for all you do.
Thank you for really thoughtful remarks about goals and desires. Humans are complex, so you're right to point out the limits of what I'm proffering in this video. After I posted Herodias's story, I wanted to do a better job of outlining the difference between goals and desires, and how we can get our wires crossed, so I made a shortie called "Goals and Desires" in the "Other stuff to Think About Channel." It's eleven minutes long and does a better job (I think) ruclips.net/video/jcGCTL9AoS8/видео.html. The main thought, here, is to recognize when we've made something our goal that we can't actually pull off on our own. That's when the anxiety starts mounting, and we start trying to manipulate circumstances and people to try to achieve what we've made the goal. A typical one might be making it my goal to get someone else to their appointment on time. I can't pull that off on my own, I need that other person's cooperation. Conversely, I just heard someone this morning say her husband -knows- he's supposed to remind her to take her pill in the morning, otherwise she can't eat. You see the problem! Somehow, if -she- doesn't remember to take her pill, it's -his- fault. She's made what should be a goal that she can certainly do all by herself into a desire that can't be fulfilled unless someone else does it for her. The more self aware we are, the more we understand our desires, and what's underneath our desires, and also are able to see the difference between a desire and a goal. Still, what it sounds like your thinking deeply about is desire that leads to addiction. I agree that it would be the rare person who makes it their goal to become addicted, though I think it's fairly widespread for people to drink with the aim of getting tipsy or drunk, or to use drugs in a recreational way with the express purpose of gaining an altered mood or state of mind. If I want to numb my pain, or forget my pain, I can do that all by myself with drugs, alcohol, overwork, high-risk activities (gambling, X-Factor sports, etc), venting rage, and so forth. Desire is involved, absolutely. But desire is involved with anything we do. I wouldn't make something my goal if I didn't want to do it (whether because I enjoy it, or feel obligated, or honored, or there were some other driving force that resonated) in the first place. In this frame, the words "goal" and "desire" have neutral value. All I was hoping to do was to show when the wires get crossed, and what that does to us, and to our relationships. We can want things that aren't good, and we can make it a goal to achieve them, knowing we don't need anyone's help to git 'er done, even though it's not good to do so. And we can want things that are good, but make it someone else's responsibility to do it for us, when really, it is our own responsibility (-I- was late because -they- didn't wake me up on time, for example). Nevertheless, it is a model with limits, and doesn't address all the complexities of who we are. I admire that you've been thinking deeply about this, and took time to write it out. Thank you. And thank you for kind words of encouragement.
Also, funny you should ask! I have been thinking an awful lot about Tamar. Her story deserves to be told. I just finished Huldah, so maybe that's the Holy Spirit's synchronicity telling me to start researching Tamar, thank you for that.
![The REAL Reason John the Baptist Was Killed - Mark 6 [Beyond the Words]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Arl2UqSsBMA/mqdefault.jpg)
Another lesson we all can learn from the story of Herodias is that anger is dangerous and often deadly whenever it is unchecked and used carelessly. It can cloud out judgment, leading us to do foolish things such as revenge and murder. Thank you for this wise and timely message from the Holy Bible and from God.
You are so right about anger. And it seems unchecked anger is on the rise in our culture. Thank you for bringing this important point out.
Well done! Thank you so much for this great study. To God be the glory!!
Amen! To God be the glory💜
Beautifully presented. Thank you so much for this, I can use it for our bible study.
I’m so glad God had something in this for you! It is just what I hope for.
I was searching for a helpful breakdown of all the Herod's and how they all fit. You helped me understand that AND much more. Thank you!
As you soon found out, during your research, Herod's extended family is pretty complicated. I am very grateful to my daughter Mari, who worked tirelessly beside me, getting it all figure out, and who created the chart I use in this video.
Very well produced. I did not know about Herodias's background. But it makes sense: hurt people hurt people.
well done and full of details and scripture. All glory to God!
Amen! All glory to God. Thank you for commenting, I'm grateful for the encouragement
in addition, your selection of background music ❤👍🏼
Thank you for such a detailed presentation. Historical context is often missing in many sermons. The breakdown of goal vs desire helps us to fully understand Herodias and ourselves. This story is often used as an example of extreme sin and is often glossed over or left out. I have always been facinated by it, feeling the story had so much more to teach us. You fleshed that out. Thank you!
Thank you for taking time to write those encouraging and insightful words, I so appreciate it.
Yes, I have also long been fascinated with Herodias’s story. It is comfortable, in a way, to hit the centrifuge button with biblical stories and out spin the good guys and the bad guys. But, when we do that, we lose a lot of the spiritual and emotional complexity of these real life accounts. There is a lot to learn from the stories preserved in scripture that can help us navigate our own lives with wisdom. Herodias’s story is one of those narratives that goes a lot deeper than many have given it time for.
There is another video on this channel called “Goals and Desires,” in the “Other Stuff to Think About” channel, that goes a little deeper into this core issue that affects us all.
Grace and peace, Joanne
Very interesting..generally cruses over like broke through praying and asking forgiveness 🙏
Herod and Herodias are very interesting people to me, and the role they both played in John the Baptist’s life, and also Jesus’s life is quite telling. I think they could easily stand in for a number of politicians we have today.
Thank you so much.🙏
So glad there is something here for you
Awesome teaching thank you 🇿🇦🙏🏼
Thank you so much for that encouragement.
@@GraceandPeaceJoanne
Thank you Ma'am see there is lots of teaching on woman of the Bible and live the History aswell .Acurae
Viewing from South Africa 🇿🇦❤
I have my notification button on
God bless 🙏🏼
What do you mean by desires blocked by God? That doesn't make sense. Are you saying God blocked their desires for redemption? God doesn't do that. He wants all to repent and trust in him.
Thank you for asking--this is kind of a long answer, but here goes.
at 8 minutes I explain how God was opening the way to repentance and rescue for both Herod and Herodias. Repentance would have been hard and felt humiliating. They would have had to end their unrighteous union. To continue in it was an offence before God--not even so much that they had divorced their spouses for unrighteous reasons, but that Herod Antipas had taken his brother's wife.
Herodias had political ambitions, as did Herod Antipas, but John the Baptist's public denouncement of their marriage was thwarting both of them. John spoke with God's voice to them. In that way, God was blocking/thwarting the advancement of their desires, their ambition, for political gain through a call to repentance that would have saved their souls.
At about 8:35 I go to the book of James to talk about the lure of sin welling up in our hearts and then about goals and desires. We can tell when our unhealthy goals and desires are being thwarted because we get angry, we grow bitter, we become manipulative and deceitful. I have another video, "Goals and Desires" that talks more about this ruclips.net/video/jcGCTL9AoS8/видео.html
At about 11:00 I show how Herodias hardened her own heart, refusing to benefit from John the Baptist being so nearby and easily accessible. Instead, she nursed her bitterness and waited for a chance to get rid of him. Here she now had two blocked desires--she was being thwarted from her political ambitions through an unrighteous marriage by John the Baptist's public outcry (the voice of God with a call to repentance) and now she was being blocked by her husband Herod Antipas who did want to get rid of the Baptist but was afraid to do it.
I return to that them at about 14 minutes into the video.
19 minutes in (and I think this is the phrase you are asking about, specifically) I start talking about people (like Herodias and possibly Herod Antipas) who either don't know God is near, or don't believe it, or if the -do- believe God is there, they possibly think God doesn't care. But God does care.
There are times when God thwarts or blocks our attempts to get what we want (our desires) when we are using unrighteous means. Sometimes God blocks or thwarts us in trying to get or do something we want, even if our desire is otherwise a good one, or our means are otherwise acceptable, but it is not the right path for us. The apostle Paul had the good sense to understand the Spirit was preventing him from going to Asia with the Gospel. He wasn't sure why God was blocking him, but he trusted God. (Acts 16:6-8)
We can see the direct natural consequences of Herod Antipas's and Herodias's refusal to repent. First, Herod's former father-in-law waged a disastrous-for-Herod war against him. Herod should probably have seen that coming. That weakened Herod's political influence, showed him up as an ineffectual ruler at best, and a liability to Rome, and it was costly to his own coffers, let alone Rome's. It made it easy for Agrippa to suggest Caligula get rid of Herod, and of course Herodias had no choice but to follow, her reputation was permanently tarnished as having chosen the loser.
By no means did God, or would God, block our desire for redemption. It was God's severe mercy to send John the Baptist with his message of repentance. But Herod and Herodias would not listen. Instead they became infuriated over being thwarted by the Baptist (and therefore by God) in their political ambitions through unrighteous means.
A long answer, but I hope it addresses your question.
@@GraceandPeaceJoanne Oh ok... Yes I was reading my own emotions into the study.
How did herodius die ? Natural death
I'm not sure! Thanks for asking, it's a great question.
I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that desires require other's help?
ruclips.net/video/bp3VeLCMGAc/видео.html
People with various addictions have no need of anyone's help in fulfilling their desires. Many people today are addicted to drugs and/or alcohol. To fulfill those wrong desires they only need the drugs or the alcohol. Unless you're implying that they need the people that make those products. But that wouldn't work either as they can make their own alcohol, for instance.
(There are many other sinful desires but I'm just using this as an example. Some desires do require the help of others, as you stated.)
By your definition then, an alcoholic has a "goal" to drink and not a desire. That...seems strange...
Perhaps it's because of your definition of desire. It seem somewhat constrained. James talked about desire leading to sin. James 1:15. Alcoholism is a sin in many ways, so the biblical definition of desire seems to be less constrained than yours. I don't know...
Not trying to call you out here as I generally very much enjoy your videos. They make me think. I also enjoy your feminine perspective of the women of the Bible. I've learned much from you regarding Michal, for instance.
BTW, would you consider a commentary on the daughter of David, Thamar (Tamar) and her horrible treatment at her Brother's hand? I searched and it doesn't seem you've discussed this yet.
In any case, thank you for all you do.
Thank you for really thoughtful remarks about goals and desires. Humans are complex, so you're right to point out the limits of what I'm proffering in this video.
After I posted Herodias's story, I wanted to do a better job of outlining the difference between goals and desires, and how we can get our wires crossed, so I made a shortie called "Goals and Desires" in the "Other stuff to Think About Channel." It's eleven minutes long and does a better job (I think) ruclips.net/video/jcGCTL9AoS8/видео.html.
The main thought, here, is to recognize when we've made something our goal that we can't actually pull off on our own. That's when the anxiety starts mounting, and we start trying to manipulate circumstances and people to try to achieve what we've made the goal. A typical one might be making it my goal to get someone else to their appointment on time. I can't pull that off on my own, I need that other person's cooperation.
Conversely, I just heard someone this morning say her husband -knows- he's supposed to remind her to take her pill in the morning, otherwise she can't eat. You see the problem! Somehow, if -she- doesn't remember to take her pill, it's -his- fault. She's made what should be a goal that she can certainly do all by herself into a desire that can't be fulfilled unless someone else does it for her.
The more self aware we are, the more we understand our desires, and what's underneath our desires, and also are able to see the difference between a desire and a goal.
Still, what it sounds like your thinking deeply about is desire that leads to addiction. I agree that it would be the rare person who makes it their goal to become addicted, though I think it's fairly widespread for people to drink with the aim of getting tipsy or drunk, or to use drugs in a recreational way with the express purpose of gaining an altered mood or state of mind.
If I want to numb my pain, or forget my pain, I can do that all by myself with drugs, alcohol, overwork, high-risk activities (gambling, X-Factor sports, etc), venting rage, and so forth. Desire is involved, absolutely. But desire is involved with anything we do. I wouldn't make something my goal if I didn't want to do it (whether because I enjoy it, or feel obligated, or honored, or there were some other driving force that resonated) in the first place.
In this frame, the words "goal" and "desire" have neutral value. All I was hoping to do was to show when the wires get crossed, and what that does to us, and to our relationships. We can want things that aren't good, and we can make it a goal to achieve them, knowing we don't need anyone's help to git 'er done, even though it's not good to do so.
And we can want things that are good, but make it someone else's responsibility to do it for us, when really, it is our own responsibility (-I- was late because -they- didn't wake me up on time, for example).
Nevertheless, it is a model with limits, and doesn't address all the complexities of who we are.
I admire that you've been thinking deeply about this, and took time to write it out. Thank you. And thank you for kind words of encouragement.
Also, funny you should ask! I have been thinking an awful lot about Tamar. Her story deserves to be told. I just finished Huldah, so maybe that's the Holy Spirit's synchronicity telling me to start researching Tamar, thank you for that.