I think what most people don't realise that ymir makes all the titans. Like ALL of them. Any time someone becomes a titan, or heals, its ymir, she's making everything in the paths. So while it happens instantly in real life, time doesn't flow the same in the paths. Its been 2000 years in real life but probably millions of years in the paths. She truly has the most tragic existence.
if ymir suddenly stopped doing that, titan shifters wouldnt exist and, titans wouldnt never be a problem. The reason she does it is because she wants to be noticed, she has been in a limbo of life and death for a millions of years and she wants someone to understand/talk to her.
Eren's goals never changed, his enemies did. He has been very vocal and open since season one about what he wants to do "I will wipe out all of them" "I will kill every last one of them".
of course they have changed! although it may not look like that from the outside, because he doesn't share his plans with the world before he just wanted revenge for his mother, now he has a higher purpose
@@Nick14139 partially yes His goal was to destroy all the titans, for revenge now his goal is to save his friends and Paradis killing his enemies is just the part of the journey/process
uhh if killing enemies is part of your goal and your enemies change then that means your goals changed.... it's like saying "my clothes didn't change, my shirt changed. i've always been wearing clothes."
Carter gets it man. No one is right but if I'm gonna root for someone its gonna be the non racist side. All of it could've been avoided if people had human rights in their world but they don't.
"You’re not a slave, you’re not a God either, you’re just a human being." It's Insane to think about how Eren was the 1st human to ever give Ymir a choice in her life.
wtf are u talking about, she always had a choice, she could have easily stomp king fritz if she ever wanted to. All Eren was doing was using her for his own benefit. just like King fritz. She will forever be a slave
00:48 Zeke is technically fighting for both the world AND for Paradis, albeit in his own twisted way. He believes that he's saving future children from experiencing the hardships Eldians go through, while simultaneously ridding titans for the world. His core belief is the complete opposite of Eren's. The whole "we never should've been born" VS "Because I was born in this world" which i thought was such a neat thematic parallel.
Nah, if you think about it, Zeke is actually fighting for the World yes, but then he's fighting for the Eldians "that will never be" because the Eldians that are still alive won't get a better life just because they can't have children you think the word would start treating them well just because in a hundred years they'll be extinct? of course not so in reality, Zeke is actually fighting for the World and not for the Eldians, because nothing will change for the Eldians alive, except now they can't even have the joy of constituting a family.
Its silly because 99.999% of Eldians don't ever become titans in the first place. They live life as normal humans. The founder doesn't have to euthanize in order to eliminate the titans, they could just turn Eldians into regular humans and let them sort out the rest according to their own will. Sure the humans will fight again in the future... but Zeke's plan doesn't change that even if it works. For Zeke's plan to make any sense, he should be euthanizing all life on earth instead of just the Eldians. The only reason he didn't is because the author wanted to make Eren the bigger villain.
This is a real ideology in real life. "Anti natalists" believe that it is immoral to bring a child into this world because you can never get the child's consent to be born. They believe the best way to stop human suffering is to just stop having children. Although Zeke's ideology is obviously different since he is targeting a specific group of people whereas anti natalists believe that everyone should stop having children
I'm so late, but yes, I think thw core of Zeke's plan has a fallacy, bcs for Zeke to side with both the world and eldians, he must recognize human rights for both side, and should overlook Ymir's titan curse and apply the same rights for all human, both eldians and non eldians (which is possible even tho hard to accomplish). His euthanasia plan break human rights for a group of people, Eldians, which is basically innocent, and treat them like criminals. That is not the solution. That's what Brigg mean when he said that there should be other solution than those two.
His point is liberating future Eldians from suffering the same fate as the past and present Eldian people do by not letting them be born in the first place. I’m not siding with him on this perspective but I see where he’s coming from.
@@cindylee2532 its not as bad as erens plan but still neither are good why not just attack marley and leave the rest of the world alone maybe if erwin were the one brought back things would have been different
@@gregoryc6656 Nothing change even if Erwin is alive. And What do you mean leave the rest of the world alone? If you destroy Marley that means the rest of the world would fight against you doesn't matter use rumbling or not because they already become alliance.
@@yongo1304 it's literally genocide. You're letting an entire race of people get extinct. Without a way of reproducing the entire eldian race gets extinct. It's genocide just less violent.
@@yongo1304 I understand your point but genocidal maniacs in the past have sterilized people with the intent of wiping that race off the earth by simply not allowing them to reproduce. So it might not be direct genocide like gas chambers or whatever, but it is still morally wrong.
What's crazy is that Ymir didn't just wait 2000 years. 2000 years passed in the mortal world/realm. In Ymir's realm "the paths" time is stretched out. Whenever someone transformed into a titan she was the one building the titanbodies of sand. And all she had was this small ahh bucket. She build millions of 60 m titans just for the wall. Millions of titans with just this damn bucket which she had to fill up. Carry it over and build. And the higher she gets (she has the body of a child after all) the more "ramps" she has to build to be able to form the body. In her realm time is very slowed down if compared to the normal realm. All the things she builds are build in a second or 2 in real time. She was a slave to her love to Fritz for so unimaginable long. It's crazy
@@ArkhamDeluxe the wall titans stand shoulder to shoulder in the walls, so if you add up the length of the 3 walls circumference + districts and divide by the width of the wall titans (~17 meters), you get somewhere in the range of 500,000 to 530,000 wall titans. Not the "millions" that King Fritz describes, but still an insane amount
Gotta love Time Loops. Zeke brought Eren into Grisha's memories, allowing Eren to influence Grisha's actions in order to bring about the future where Zeke brought Eren into Grisha's memories, allowing Eren to influence Grisha's actions in order to bring about the future where Zeke brought Eren into Grisha's memories...... No clear "Starting point", the loop just keeps creating itself.
Which begs the question, could Eren have gone back and saved his mom? Grisha said after killing the Reiss family that Eren was only showing him select memories to influence the future, but could he have prevented Carla from dying?
@@lisa_squared most certainly but future him actually made Dina Fritz's titan ignore bertholdt (collusal titan) and eat Carla in order for him to guarantee the future he's in now. Another Timeloop for sure though.
The part most people forget about when discussing Eren's choice is time. He does not have a ton of time left. Thats why the scene where he asks Hange for a different plan is such a big deal. He's going to die, he knows it and he wants to find any way to make sure the people that he loves survive and live after hes gone.
Tell people the truth about Eldians. Show Marley that they're not devils. Gabbie realized she was brainwashed so give everyone else a chance to realize that also. That why you don't have to live knowing the entire planet hates your people for literally no reason besides propaganda. Automatically saying "that won't work" is wrong because you done know that. We don't know if it will or won't work until you try.
I think the best way to explain it is that what Eren's doing is wrong. It is so obviously wrong that it doesn't need to be stated But, Eren SHOULD be this way. Every event of his life and the story have been leading us here. The way Eren is, is the only way he could be that makes sense. If there were an instruction book "How To Create A Genocidal Monster", it would be attack on titan. Eren is my favorite character, but that doesn't mean he's a good person. If he were a good person at the end, he wouldn't be my favorite character
Isayama is brilliant. One of the main themes of the show is freedom, but literally NO ONE in the show has free will due to Eren knowing the future. Wild.
I think that's why Eren becomes so depressed. He longed for freedom he once he saw the future and realised that the future cannot be changed, he realised will never be able to attain freedom because he doesn't really have free will. He is a slave to destiny.
Eren doesn't even have free will. He was bound by his future self's memories that Grisha imparted to him. AoT is a huge deterministic universe and Eren couldn't escape it.
They both have compelling points. What also makes AoT so great is how people even outside the show, us the viewers, also argue about it and not just the characters themselves. Nice to see different perspectives.
One would let the trolley run over the one member of their family to save 5 people they dont know and the other would save that one member of their family at the cost of those 5 people. I love trolley problem the anime.
In this episode Eren's voice actor (Yuki Kaji) almost lost his voice. Is incredible!! Interesting fact, in the scene where 13 arms point to Ymir as the culprit for the pig escaping, it represents the 13 years of life that a person has when carrying a Titan. When she falls and a blood-stained flower is shown in the scene, that flower has 9 petals, which represents the number of Titan Shifters that exist.
yes i agree with you........i wonder why people today hate EREN and AOT just because the ending is bad for them..........I always put AOT at rank 1 in my anime list and any show
Big text (no spoilers) There's one thing that most people forget about when talking about eren 'manipulating' the memories or else. The moment Ymir got her powers, she knew who would be the following attack titans because she herself once had that power, so she knew every single 'future memories' thru that power that SHE had, so thats the reason behind the first title of the first chapter "to you, in 2000 years''. In the paths', there is no TIME - no present, no past, no future, just 'existing' -, therefore, for her, it was in an instant, and an eternity, so the moment she "entered'' the paths, was the exact moment where she is hugged by eren, and at the same time, the moment she "entered" the paths, its was like a eternity to wait for eren (that’s why she ‘built’, having all the time, those colossal titans, to which she’d use them in the future), who she knew she would see, because she already saw those memories and ‘forced’ eren to be who he already was. If a future can be foresee (by anyone), therefore there is no other ‘version’, or else it would be a ‘blank’. and that is also implied by Levi MANY times thru the show, where he asks Eren to “make a decision”, but every event was already written the way it has always been. making it that Eren is not free because he has no ‘freedom’ but not free cause the future is the way the future will be, no matter what it's said or done, any decision it will be that way and has been from its very beginning to its very infinity (MACRO determinist paradox, which implies that there's no free will since its very start). Ymir knew, from its very beginning use of the titan’s power how she and things would end up and because Eren touched Zeke’s royal blood, he was able to get access to that power, the founder’s power (of memories and all, from the past present and future), and do the way Ymir saw from its beginning of use of the power; which is a paradox itself (bootstrap), but Isayama kinda created a new kind of paradox with his train of thot. Which is that every (most) events thru the show is a loop, but not by time traveling or physical changing/staying the same, but by memories; which is what makes us humans. Well, there’s a missing information i didn’t add, cause its a spoiler, but it would complete the total understanding of my argument. point out to→ when eren made that face when he touched historia’s hand in season 3, it was the same face Ymir did when she became free from herself. Knowing the future is a curse, cause its not a future anymore, but a whole season of present events.
The saddest thing for me that in the end eren was not free and he was also a slave. Even tho he really hated slaves and felt like he cant be like this🤧 tbh ymir just played everyone 😂😂
Yeah, some people looking at it as eren being the one who constructed everything makes no sense. Because if getting the founding Titan was the criteria how would he have gotten it in the first place if it wasn't predetermined? If it was someone from the future manipulating the past I don't think that person would still be themselves or even exist with all the changes. It only makes sense if he was a construct of Ymir.
yea people say "Eren caused all of this from the future" but its pretty obvious it was Ymir and the worm-skeleton... i think people are too scared to talk about Ymir committing genocide though because she's a little girl xD easier to blame it all on everyone else
Carter "Does he have free will?" I don't think Eren has free will at all, which is what makes his storyline so compelling. He is a slave to the past and the future all at the same time, he can't change anything. Everything that has happened will happen and everything that will happen has happened. It's gotta be torturous to be the Attack Titan
I think it's not so straightforward as a yes or no. Eren does have free will to some extent, because he can only see glimpses of the future. But the messed up thing for him is that, no matter what choices he makes, he ends up arriving at the future he sees. So in a way, even his own free will to act is not so free after all. Which I think leads us to a great conversation about whether each of us really does have free will, if we can theoretically see the future.
The type of time travel used in AoT is deterministic which basically means everything that ever happens was always going to happen, and if you change the past with time travel that change was always going to happen and the future from that point onward was always changed from that event, and you lived with that change the first time around anyway. Because of this and the fact that Eren controls the Attack Titan and Founding Titan at the same time; he is the only person who knows he doesnt have free will. Nobody in a deterministic timeline has free will as all events in history are predetermined, however the difference is that Eren IS in control of time, which means he is aware of this lack of free will. Everyone within the universe may feel like they have free will, but they dont and are simply unaware of it.
Reread 130. "Everything that has happened, happened because of my free will. Isayama confirmed that AoT's timeline is deterministic and not fatalistic.
@@Qprah Rather silly and needlessly complex. I can see the future and I know this happens so I’m going to do everything to ensure it happens that way anyway instead of trying to take steps not to do it. Ironically, not making Grisha murder the Reiss family would have averted the future he dreaded in the first place. Or heck maybe just not activating the rumbling.
Ymir has the saddest backstory in all of AoT. 1. Her village burnt down (maybe family killed too) 2. *Her tongue severed like the rest of her villagers* 3. *Her eye plucked out before she was "set free"* 4. Got hunted like a pig 5. Became a monster 6. Submitted herself to being a slave to that devil again ( *because of her Stockholm Syndrome* ) 7. Raped by the same devil to have his kids 8. Sacrificed herself to save the devil 9. Got cannibalised by her own daughters 10. Continued to remain a slave for 2000 years
I mean what's even worse is that it was longer than 2000 years for her because whenever she makes a titan it takes years or even dozens of years for each titan. Because each time someone turns into a titan it appears almost instantly but she had to make all of that. So I personally feel like it would have felt to her more like a billion or more years of creating titans.
@@killagami5658 she is probably 4'5 or something.. how can she reach up to the colossal titan's crotch? i dont think she makes the titans like that. she lays the foundations (feet) and then says abracadabra..
Fyi the shot of the 3 daughters eating Ymir was literally shown in the ED of Season 2, as well as the literal rumbling, but no one really understood it at the time.
@@maizeman90 bro, isayama personally worked with linked horizon and the animation team at wit studio while making that ED....it is clear as day that the ED spoiled the ending to everyone the minute the manga chapters came out
I think that’s what isayama is a genius in. Putting information into the show that only makes sense later where we are blown away because we‘d say „this was so obvious“ because he blatantly puts it infront of our salads but he does it because he knows exactly we still can’t make a picture out if it. It’s a great surprise effect that follows us throughout the show.
Hahaha love how the brothers(Cannon and Carter) diverge in their own statements of ethics and morality just shows how even tho related their own experiences and personality are different . Cannon has a more humanistic and spiritual approach while Carter is more rational and logical going to a more behavioristic approach. I can only imagine family reunions and arguments about different perspectives hahaha Great content guys 👊
1. Eren saw his own future multiple times, from there onward he does not have free will no matter how much he feels he has. Everything he did since then was to make sure the outcome line up with the future he saw. 2. Eren also saw that in future of his when kissing Historia's hand, he has to influence his dad in past by traveling through memories which Zeke will help him do it. He knew that Zeke will take him there, so he just played with him, and thanked him later.
But this isn't actually time travel, atleast not a linear or simple one. I mean Grisha only saw the future that Eren showed him to manipulate Grisha into killing Reiss family. Grisha says "The inheritor of Attack titan are able to see the memories of their future inheritors". Meaning Eren is the one in control of showing the future to his dad. Also, Owl says something along the lines of " protect Mikasa and Armin", and then questions whose memories were those. Which means it is still unclear how far in time Eren went back in order to change the course of history the way it did. Which stands to reason that things were always going to go the way they went. But Eren, by this logic, couldn't have known his future, as there has to be someone after Eren to inherit the Attack titan, the founding titan and royal blood (three necessary ingredient for Attack titan's power to see the memories), and that future inheritor for some unknown reason had shown Eren' future- the way Eren showed his dad the future.
I dont think Eren knew Zeke would bring him there to send memories to his father, he was pretty surprised at first when find out his father can be affected by the memories.
@@Yourmama.69yrsago Being able to see future memories is strictly an attack titan ability, they don't need the founding titan or royal blood to do so. However being able to manipulate the past is only possible through the founding titan, eren would not have been able to motivate grisha to kill the reiss family if he didn't visit his memory through zekes power. Grisha was motivated by a memory of eren being inside of grishas memory thats why he can only see zeke when eren is looking at zeke. I believe eren has the ability to send himself his own future memories, i don't think there was a inheritor after him that sent it to him, thats what i think
@@AndersonMallony-EricCF He was not suprised to see his father affected by his memories, his only shock was that Grisha found where the reiss family was way before he actually confronted them, this must've been a memory he didn't send to his past self because it really isn't important. He even tells zeke that he has seen himself motivating grisha to kill them before which he could only see if he knew zeke brought him into grishas memories
Cannon is right. The Subjects of Ymir has isolated themselves from the rest of the world for hundreds of years and the Reiss Royal family has put a vow to renounced from warring against other humans. AND YET, MARLEY INSTIGATED THE REST OF THE WORLD TO PROSECUTE AND DESTROY ALL ELDIANS. Eren only has a few years left and he doesn't trust anyone else to save PARADIS since ERWIN is already gone.
nah LMFAO declaration of war was engineered by Yeager Bros for their own benefits and paradis was never Eren's priority, and Erwin is a man of humanity and he would never support Genocide
@@bloodborne7698 exactly, idk why people either ignore this detail or simlpy just didn't pick on it, the yeagar bros didn't care about paradis they planed for willy's declaration of war and zeke puched him in that direction to benefit themselves
@@scootertothekneecap9435 dawg he sent his soldier on a suicide mission, also Man didn't bother to greet hardcore yeagerist / pro-rumbling Floch meanwhile he's constantly leading "GENOCIDE IS WRONG" gang
@@scootertothekneecap9435 all his life he tried to prove that his theory that people existed outside the walls was correct, why would it make sense to think that he wanted to destroy all that?
Most people seem to have forgotten that multiple Eldians, like Mr. Ksaver said they wished they weren't born. Thats one of the main motivations for Zeke. Since they said that, he saw that as a solution. Its still a shitty solution but to Zeke and those who have suffered, it makes sense.
People like that who would rather die than exist should be allowed to do that, but not to take anyone else with them. To decide that other people deserve to never be born, regardless of whether or not they would want to live, is the height of eugenicist arrogance and is pure evil. It goes from simply wrong to actually evil, by believing that it is good. You don't know what's going on in a person's mind. You don't know if they are drowning in misery over their unfulfilling lives, or if they have instead embraced their lives and reached enlightened contentment. To decide that a person with a similar life to yours _must_ be just as miserable as you and therefore _must_ be as angry and suicidal as you... how dare the person who feels that way, who wishes they'd never been born and actually believes that they can make that suicidal decision for anyone but themselves. And how dare Zeke.
Multiple regular humans have also said they wish they weren't born. Countless animals have likely had that thought while being eaten. So by that logic Zeke should want to eliminate all humans, and all life in general. So Eren is actually coming far closer to fulfilling Zeke's goal. So no, Zeke's character and plan do _not_ make sense.
I kind of get what Jack was trying to say at the beginning. Zeke thought it was a bad thing to be born and saw himself as a savior who was "freeing" Eldians from their suffering by eliminating them.
Yea but that's silly because Eldians very clearly don't want that. Most of them were happy to be born, unlike Zeke. He's just projecting his pain onto everyone else, which is not a good reason to do anything let alone euthanize an entire race of people.
*"There was a man so wise* *He ran towards a monkey man* *And together lost their minds.* *And when he knew His might lived on* *He offered no regrets.* *He summoned up a vision* *And squared an age old debt."* - Children's Rhyme, from 'Memories of Paradis' by Historia Reiss
Really appreciate the honesty and genuine open discussion in the beginning. Even if it was long, the maturity displayed just makes these reactions all the more enjoyable.
Somebody else said it but I’m reiterating for importance: Ymir spends millions/billions/trillions of years toiling away in paths to create titans and heal them as well. 2000 years is one thing: the actual time she spent there is unfathomable. Ymir is undoubtedly the most tragic character of AOT, and I’m happy that Eren her free
Well, with all we know thus far (did you read the manga?) he didnt really set her free did he? By killing all humans except eldians, only eldians will remain. And as long as the 9 will remain, people will fight over their powers, and Ymir will continue to have to make them. As long as the Power of the Titans remains, Ymir will suffer
I think it's cool how we've seen this expression 14:47 on multiple people during the show, like it's an universal expression to convey the same feeling
shes been waiting over 2000 years btw. since it were 2000 years in the real world and has zeke explained (and the whole titan building) time passes differently in there. she just build tens of millions of titans with one bucket of water and sand
Listening to the discussion part about timeline, you guys really need to check out Dark series. The plot will absolutely blow your minds! And the actings performed by all casts are phenomenal! But anyways, this is another very enjoyable reaction video^^ looking forward to the next one!
26:53 "someone really smart is laughing at us right now" I wasn't 😄 I was focused with u guys's process to try to understand and solve that issue, until u said that, THEN I laughed 🤣🤣
A cool detail is how every time a Titan does some weird shit the lightning during the transformation reveals it. Like how Eren’s transformation also had lightning going under the walls showing he was using the Founder to undo their hardening. Another example is when Eren used hardening for the first time to stop the cavern from collapsing on the Scouts in season 3 part 1
All creatures experience pain, so by that logic Zeke should want to eliminate all life on earth. Eren's plan is far better for realizing Zeke's goal than Zeke's plan.
Probably my favorite episode of season 4 honestly. I love seeing Eren being absolutely unhinged, Ymir's backstory answered a lot of questions, and the pure chaos and magnificence of the ending is top-tier anime. Also, some of the best music, nothing can beat YouSeeBIGGIRL/T:T though.
Just remember that scene at the start of s4 where Eren shifted 3 times. She probably spent a decade building those in what was like 3 hours of real time.
18:30 Also something I think the series was implying towards the beginning of season 4 was that technology was advancing quite rapidly. They aren't living in the viking times or old times anymore where having the power of a Titan meant you could dominate everything. Weaponry was advancing to the point where killing Titans was getting easier and easier. If Eren did nothing and just waited, eventually, Marley and the outside world would be able to deal with the Titan power easily. So Eren wiping out 80% of the outside population to basically reset everyone on an equal playing field. This allowed all the ones he cared about to live out a long fulfilling life.
From the time travel conversation, a good show that tackles this subject is Steins;Gate, you should really watch it, it's kinda weird at the start, as in like it's very anime, but if you choose to keep going, you will put this show in your top 5 at least.
So happy to have you guys back, I would watch ur attack on titan videos every lunchtime between classes and you guys have come back just in time for my last term. These vids put the biggest smile on my face 😁😁
AoT seems to use a fixed timeline, relying on the B-theory of time. Meaning that there is not privileged point in time we call "now". "Now" is just a subjective construct of our minds. Instead, all of time has always existed equally to each other. 2000 Years ago is equal to now. The time loop we see with the memories from the future affecting the past has always existed, it was never created. This view of time also has some interesting implications on free will, mostly that it doesn't exist.
If you think about it in real world time and from everyone else’s perspective, literally the moment right after Gabi pulled the trigger and blew Eren’s head off; lightening struck, all three walls immediately crumbled, and shit literally hit the fan as the world went up in flames and became one big apocalyptic dumpster fire. It’s a bad day to be Gabi 💀 Sum wild wild west shit happens every time she pulls a trigger ong
whatever dude on the left said with the glasses at the start hes totally right in my opinion zeke is fighting for the eldians hes said multiple times in the story words of the nature thsi would of never happened if i was born or i wish i wasnt born zekes whole thought process is that for eldians to truly end their suffering is if they dont exist at all its quite literally the opposite of erens ideology eren believes that the only way for eldians to stop suffering is if theyre the only people to exist if anything zekes plan is more humane and logical
I'm late so you prob won't see this but I never see this mentioned. When the king lets Ymir go (to be hunted), he says "you are free". That's the same thing that the Marylean at the end of S3 said before he pushed the Eldian off the wall to be eaten by the titans he had just created from Grisha's rebels. Another symbol of hate being a neverending cycle. I also see both sides. It's horrible what Eren's doing but I also don't see another choice and feel like his attack on Hange a few eps back was him desperately asking for another way. Zeke's euthanasia plan is a death sentence, as soon as people don't have to worry about titan reincarnation, all of the titans would be killed off and then Paradis has no chance. Even without Zeke's pla, they are a tiny little island with outdated weapons and are about 150 yrs behind modern weaponry/transportation/etc; the titan weaponry from other countries was able to stop the titans in ep 1 until Gabby's stunt . Just one country would wipe them out if they actually waged war on them which Willy Tybur did (before Eren had even attacked).
Eren warning the world like "I don't wanna do this, so don't touch us" is literally the same thing King Reiss did 100 years ago. And they've been breeding founding titans to carry on the will since then. Eren doesn't want this burden to fall on his people, for Historia to become a royal blood breeding machine.
the thing that people don't get is: peace, and freedom have the highest cost: blood. Nothing we enjoy today here now came to fruition heavily or coincidentally. It cost millions and billions of lives. Armin sadly was right... nothing gained if nothing lost. There are no solutions. Only trade-offs. And these are the themes the author directly attacks here. Themes people don't want to see plainly as they are. No solution only tradeoff and the sacrifice of it. It's not pretty... it's scary to think about. But worth it. And wrapping it in this story with these characters makes it digestible. This is what Manga and Anime are primarily.
Just remember Eren didn't declare war. Everything he has done in season 4 really only began after a declaration of war from the whole world was declared. He may not be doing the moral thing to do but it's definitely understandable.
@@MrZlocktar the fanbase seems to have very flawed understanding about Eren's knowledge of the future that I cannot completely deny because I haven't read the manga and the anime hasn't ended, but have no reason to believe either. There are many critical things Eren 100% didn't know would happen, so it's not like he saw EVERYTHING. Even Grisha specifies its "glimpses" that the Attack Titan sees. At the moment I see no good enough reason to think Eren saw the speech (at least as a whole) in his visions.
Not only that but he also tried and/or looked over every other option and found that none of them would’ve worked, the best possible outcome would be Eldia and Marley working it out diplomatically but as we saw in the special that wasn’t gonna work
Note how Zeke changed his way of dealing with his father. Now his is talking about Grisha as THEIR father when before he was talking about him saying to Eren "YOUR father".
It is a little extreme but I complete get where Eren is coming from. He literally tried to give the outside world a chance, but once he realized its them or us, then it is always us.
Feels like I’ve waited 2000 years for this…
True
True
True
Yup
Same but for their vinland saga episode 5
I think what most people don't realise that ymir makes all the titans. Like ALL of them. Any time someone becomes a titan, or heals, its ymir, she's making everything in the paths. So while it happens instantly in real life, time doesn't flow the same in the paths. Its been 2000 years in real life but probably millions of years in the paths. She truly has the most tragic existence.
if ymir suddenly stopped doing that, titan shifters wouldnt exist and, titans wouldnt never be a problem. The reason she does it is because she wants to be noticed, she has been in a limbo of life and death for a millions of years and she wants someone to understand/talk to her.
Ymir might've just spent 9,460,800,000,000 years in the paths. In other words, for eternity.
it also explains why she died, because nobody could heal her. EDIT: (could be wrong on this)
So true. She did die but even then she wasnt free
@@Shrike7969 well that makes me think, all the times she turned into a titan, who was converting her if there was no one in paths?
Eren's goals never changed, his enemies did. He has been very vocal and open since season one about what he wants to do "I will wipe out all of them" "I will kill every last one of them".
of course they have changed!
although it may not look like that from the outside, because he doesn't share his plans with the world
before he just wanted revenge for his mother, now he has a higher purpose
@@davidnobre5660but you're talking about his motivation and not his goal😅
@@Nick14139 partially yes
His goal was to destroy all the titans, for revenge
now his goal is to save his friends and Paradis
killing his enemies is just the part of the journey/process
uhh if killing enemies is part of your goal and your enemies change then that means your goals changed.... it's like saying "my clothes didn't change, my shirt changed. i've always been wearing clothes."
I love when main characters are consistent. That’s what makes them reliable to me.
I LOVE THAT CARTER AND CANNON ARE ON THE TWO OPOSITE SIDES LIKE THE REST OF THE FANDOM LOL
Bro the way they just immediately went into debate make me laugh
Canon is a W
Team Carter!
W
Carter gets it man. No one is right but if I'm gonna root for someone its gonna be the non racist side. All of it could've been avoided if people had human rights in their world but they don't.
"You’re not a slave, you’re not a God either, you’re just a human being."
It's Insane to think about how Eren was the 1st human to ever give Ymir a choice in her life.
Nerd
🤓🤓🤓
Ymir shaped Eren's entire life so its actually Ymir talking to herself.
THIS!!!!!
wtf are u talking about, she always had a choice, she could have easily stomp king fritz if she ever wanted to. All Eren was doing was using her for his own benefit. just like King fritz. She will forever be a slave
Eren: Because i was born to this world
Zeke: if only we were never born
I love how Cannon and Carter are on opposite sides and argue just like the rest of the fandom. True representation lol
00:48 Zeke is technically fighting for both the world AND for Paradis, albeit in his own twisted way. He believes that he's saving future children from experiencing the hardships Eldians go through, while simultaneously ridding titans for the world. His core belief is the complete opposite of Eren's. The whole "we never should've been born" VS "Because I was born in this world" which i thought was such a neat thematic parallel.
Nah, if you think about it, Zeke is actually fighting for the World yes, but then he's fighting for the Eldians "that will never be"
because the Eldians that are still alive won't get a better life just because they can't have children
you think the word would start treating them well just because in a hundred years they'll be extinct? of course not
so in reality, Zeke is actually fighting for the World and not for the Eldians, because nothing will change for the Eldians alive, except now they can't even have the joy of constituting a family.
Its silly because 99.999% of Eldians don't ever become titans in the first place. They live life as normal humans. The founder doesn't have to euthanize in order to eliminate the titans, they could just turn Eldians into regular humans and let them sort out the rest according to their own will. Sure the humans will fight again in the future... but Zeke's plan doesn't change that even if it works. For Zeke's plan to make any sense, he should be euthanizing all life on earth instead of just the Eldians. The only reason he didn't is because the author wanted to make Eren the bigger villain.
This is a real ideology in real life. "Anti natalists" believe that it is immoral to bring a child into this world because you can never get the child's consent to be born.
They believe the best way to stop human suffering is to just stop having children.
Although Zeke's ideology is obviously different since he is targeting a specific group of people whereas anti natalists believe that everyone should stop having children
I'm so late, but yes, I think thw core of Zeke's plan has a fallacy, bcs for Zeke to side with both the world and eldians, he must recognize human rights for both side, and should overlook Ymir's titan curse and apply the same rights for all human, both eldians and non eldians (which is possible even tho hard to accomplish). His euthanasia plan break human rights for a group of people, Eldians, which is basically innocent, and treat them like criminals. That is not the solution. That's what Brigg mean when he said that there should be other solution than those two.
For Zeke, I think his motivation is, "Why are we here just to suffer?"
Exactly
His point is liberating future Eldians from suffering the same fate as the past and present Eldian people do by not letting them be born in the first place. I’m not siding with him on this perspective but I see where he’s coming from.
@@cindylee2532 its not as bad as erens plan but still neither are good why not just attack marley and leave the rest of the world alone maybe if erwin were the one brought back things would have been different
@@gregoryc6656 marley is not so bad compared to the rest of the world
@@gregoryc6656 Nothing change even if Erwin is alive. And What do you mean leave the rest of the world alone? If you destroy Marley that means the rest of the world would fight against you doesn't matter use rumbling or not because they already become alliance.
Man really airdropped all subjects of ymir to a blue desert with some huge ass tree
People having sex appearing there would be awkward af.
@@antoinegriezmann9369 LMFAOOOO I DIDNT EVEN THINK OF THAT
Hopped on discord vc
What about people who were pooping
I don't think they will but thier minds
I love the complexity between Eren and Zeke's viewpoints. It's literally a choice between the lesser of two genocides.
Zeke's isn't a genocide though. You can't genocide people that don't exist
@@yongo1304 it's literally genocide. You're letting an entire race of people get extinct. Without a way of reproducing the entire eldian race gets extinct. It's genocide just less violent.
@@yongo1304 I understand your point but genocidal maniacs in the past have sterilized people with the intent of wiping that race off the earth by simply not allowing them to reproduce. So it might not be direct genocide like gas chambers or whatever, but it is still morally wrong.
@@yongo1304it is a genocide,you’re making people unable to reproduct and in 100 years there will not be any Eldian anymore.
@@yongo1304 zeke is indeed making a genocide, by taking out the ability to reproduce for eldians, thus this means their extinction in a period of time
What's crazy is that Ymir didn't just wait 2000 years. 2000 years passed in the mortal world/realm. In Ymir's realm "the paths" time is stretched out. Whenever someone transformed into a titan she was the one building the titanbodies of sand. And all she had was this small ahh bucket. She build millions of 60 m titans just for the wall. Millions of titans with just this damn bucket which she had to fill up. Carry it over and build. And the higher she gets (she has the body of a child after all) the more "ramps" she has to build to be able to form the body. In her realm time is very slowed down if compared to the normal realm. All the things she builds are build in a second or 2 in real time.
She was a slave to her love to Fritz for so unimaginable long. It's crazy
It's not millions in the walls its more like 10-20k
Ikr. 2000 years in our world is quite literally an infinity’s worth of time for Ymir
@@ArkhamDeluxe I read that there is more than 500k titans in the walls ( At least).
@@ArkhamDeluxe the wall titans stand shoulder to shoulder in the walls, so if you add up the length of the 3 walls circumference + districts and divide by the width of the wall titans (~17 meters), you get somewhere in the range of 500,000 to 530,000 wall titans. Not the "millions" that King Fritz describes, but still an insane amount
she was absolutely not in love with fritz lol
Gotta love Time Loops. Zeke brought Eren into Grisha's memories, allowing Eren to influence Grisha's actions in order to bring about the future where Zeke brought Eren into Grisha's memories, allowing Eren to influence Grisha's actions in order to bring about the future where Zeke brought Eren into Grisha's memories......
No clear "Starting point", the loop just keeps creating itself.
Yeah its a paradox basically
@@blakodesu3769 yeah I like how aot did the time paradox, unlike the trash flash show
Which begs the question, could Eren have gone back and saved his mom? Grisha said after killing the Reiss family that Eren was only showing him select memories to influence the future, but could he have prevented Carla from dying?
@@lisa_squared most certainly but future him actually made Dina Fritz's titan ignore bertholdt (collusal titan) and eat Carla in order for him to guarantee the future he's in now. Another Timeloop for sure though.
@@lisa_squareddid you watch the last episode aka special 2?
The part most people forget about when discussing Eren's choice is time. He does not have a ton of time left. Thats why the scene where he asks Hange for a different plan is such a big deal. He's going to die, he knows it and he wants to find any way to make sure the people that he loves survive and live after hes gone.
Tell people the truth about Eldians.
Show Marley that they're not devils. Gabbie realized she was brainwashed so give everyone else a chance to realize that also.
That why you don't have to live knowing the entire planet hates your people for literally no reason besides propaganda.
Automatically saying "that won't work" is wrong because you done know that. We don't know if it will or won't work until you try.
"he's going to kill billions of people!"
"i mean i get where he's coming from"
lmao this is great
That's what a powerful plot does bruh😂😂
The greatness of AoT
I think the best way to explain it is that what Eren's doing is wrong. It is so obviously wrong that it doesn't need to be stated
But, Eren SHOULD be this way. Every event of his life and the story have been leading us here. The way Eren is, is the only way he could be that makes sense. If there were an instruction book "How To Create A Genocidal Monster", it would be attack on titan.
Eren is my favorite character, but that doesn't mean he's a good person. If he were a good person at the end, he wouldn't be my favorite character
@@buckyhurdle4776 Armin would like to have a word with you about the topic of "good people"
@@buckyhurdle4776 It's not really "wrong" it's just bad for humans.
Isayama is brilliant. One of the main themes of the show is freedom, but literally NO ONE in the show has free will due to Eren knowing the future. Wild.
I think that's why Eren becomes so depressed. He longed for freedom he once he saw the future and realised that the future cannot be changed, he realised will never be able to attain freedom because he doesn't really have free will.
He is a slave to destiny.
The main slave of the show pretending he's free. Ugh.
Eren doesn't even have free will. He was bound by his future self's memories that Grisha imparted to him. AoT is a huge deterministic universe and Eren couldn't escape it.
I love that carter gets where eren is coming from while cannon is so against it
They both have compelling points. What also makes AoT so great is how people even outside the show, us the viewers, also argue about it and not just the characters themselves. Nice to see different perspectives.
Cannon is mature
One would let the trolley run over the one member of their family to save 5 people they dont know and the other would save that one member of their family at the cost of those 5 people. I love trolley problem the anime.
@@cindylee2532 EXACTLY!!
@@TheSteiner12 i mean it's a show i don't think any opinion is better than the other
Imagine their dads came across this room and heard their discussion lol
😂😂😂😂
I like how immediately 1 of them became a jaegerist and the other the alliance.
"Racism can't exist if there's no other races." - Eren
In this episode Eren's voice actor (Yuki Kaji) almost lost his voice. Is incredible!! Interesting fact, in the scene where 13 arms point to Ymir as the culprit for the pig escaping, it represents the 13 years of life that a person has when carrying a Titan. When she falls and a blood-stained flower is shown in the scene, that flower has 9 petals, which represents the number of Titan Shifters that exist.
Did isayama confirm this? I#d like to believe it bc isayama never allows coincidences.
I thought the curse was 13 years because that's how long Ymir lived after gaining Titan powers.
@@romankhamov6229 I think that's also true. May be just extra symbolism
Well damn
18:25 bro is a true yaegarist bro understood the assignment 💀 w💥
Eren is one of the greatest characters ever…
Isayama is a true writer and an incredible person. What a story 🤯
日本では伝説です。
yes i agree with you........i wonder why people today hate EREN and AOT just because the ending is bad for them..........I always put AOT at rank 1 in my anime list and any show
@@KIRA-us24hx my nig you know berserk vagabond etc.?
I dont understand how people likes simplistic shit like "demon slayer" more than this.
@@diogovieira5563 i swear, if demon slayer was animated by an average studio, it wouldve never been a hit lol
I appreciate how Cannon is trying to prevent Carter’s villain arc 😂 Cankasa reminding him of the innocents in the crossfire
team paradis all the way
Big text (no spoilers)
There's one thing that most people forget about when talking about eren 'manipulating' the memories or else. The moment Ymir got her powers, she knew who would be the following attack titans because she herself once had that power, so she knew every single 'future memories' thru that power that SHE had, so thats the reason behind the first title of the first chapter "to you, in 2000 years''. In the paths', there is no TIME - no present, no past, no future, just 'existing' -, therefore, for her, it was in an instant, and an eternity, so the moment she "entered'' the paths, was the exact moment where she is hugged by eren, and at the same time, the moment she "entered" the paths, its was like a eternity to wait for eren (that’s why she ‘built’, having all the time, those colossal titans, to which she’d use them in the future), who she knew she would see, because she already saw those memories and ‘forced’ eren to be who he already was. If a future can be foresee (by anyone), therefore there is no other ‘version’, or else it would be a ‘blank’. and that is also implied by Levi MANY times thru the show, where he asks Eren to “make a decision”, but every event was already written the way it has always been. making it that Eren is not free because he has no ‘freedom’ but not free cause the future is the way the future will be, no matter what it's said or done, any decision it will be that way and has been from its very beginning to its very infinity (MACRO determinist paradox, which implies that there's no free will since its very start). Ymir knew, from its very beginning use of the titan’s power how she and things would end up and because Eren touched Zeke’s royal blood, he was able to get access to that power, the founder’s power (of memories and all, from the past present and future), and do the way Ymir saw from its beginning of use of the power; which is a paradox itself (bootstrap), but Isayama kinda created a new kind of paradox with his train of thot. Which is that every (most) events thru the show is a loop, but not by time traveling or physical changing/staying the same, but by memories; which is what makes us humans.
Well, there’s a missing information i didn’t add, cause its a spoiler, but it would complete the total understanding of my argument.
point out to→ when eren made that face when he touched historia’s hand in season 3, it was the same face Ymir did when she became free from herself.
Knowing the future is a curse, cause its not a future anymore, but a whole season of present events.
Perfect explanation!
Thank you! 😁
I really liked your explanation to me it cleared a lot of doubts i had. U explained really well😊
The saddest thing for me that in the end eren was not free and he was also a slave. Even tho he really hated slaves and felt like he cant be like this🤧 tbh ymir just played everyone 😂😂
Yeah, some people looking at it as eren being the one who constructed everything makes no sense. Because if getting the founding Titan was the criteria how would he have gotten it in the first place if it wasn't predetermined? If it was someone from the future manipulating the past I don't think that person would still be themselves or even exist with all the changes. It only makes sense if he was a construct of Ymir.
yea people say "Eren caused all of this from the future" but its pretty obvious it was Ymir and the worm-skeleton... i think people are too scared to talk about Ymir committing genocide though because she's a little girl xD easier to blame it all on everyone else
Carter "Does he have free will?" I don't think Eren has free will at all, which is what makes his storyline so compelling. He is a slave to the past and the future all at the same time, he can't change anything. Everything that has happened will happen and everything that will happen has happened. It's gotta be torturous to be the Attack Titan
I think it's not so straightforward as a yes or no. Eren does have free will to some extent, because he can only see glimpses of the future. But the messed up thing for him is that, no matter what choices he makes, he ends up arriving at the future he sees. So in a way, even his own free will to act is not so free after all. Which I think leads us to a great conversation about whether each of us really does have free will, if we can theoretically see the future.
The type of time travel used in AoT is deterministic which basically means everything that ever happens was always going to happen, and if you change the past with time travel that change was always going to happen and the future from that point onward was always changed from that event, and you lived with that change the first time around anyway.
Because of this and the fact that Eren controls the Attack Titan and Founding Titan at the same time; he is the only person who knows he doesnt have free will.
Nobody in a deterministic timeline has free will as all events in history are predetermined, however the difference is that Eren IS in control of time, which means he is aware of this lack of free will. Everyone within the universe may feel like they have free will, but they dont and are simply unaware of it.
Eren has accepted that he has no free will. He has accepted his role, and this is his freedom.
Reread 130. "Everything that has happened, happened because of my free will. Isayama confirmed that AoT's timeline is deterministic and not fatalistic.
@@Qprah Rather silly and needlessly complex. I can see the future and I know this happens so I’m going to do everything to ensure it happens that way anyway instead of trying to take steps not to do it. Ironically, not making Grisha murder the Reiss family would have averted the future he dreaded in the first place. Or heck maybe just not activating the rumbling.
Ymir has the saddest backstory in all of AoT.
1. Her village burnt down (maybe family killed too)
2. *Her tongue severed like the rest of her villagers*
3. *Her eye plucked out before she was "set free"*
4. Got hunted like a pig
5. Became a monster
6. Submitted herself to being a slave to that devil again ( *because of her Stockholm Syndrome* )
7. Raped by the same devil to have his kids
8. Sacrificed herself to save the devil
9. Got cannibalised by her own daughters
10. Continued to remain a slave for 2000 years
Well more than 2000 years...
I mean what's even worse is that it was longer than 2000 years for her because whenever she makes a titan it takes years or even dozens of years for each titan. Because each time someone turns into a titan it appears almost instantly but she had to make all of that. So I personally feel like it would have felt to her more like a billion or more years of creating titans.
Her story is pretty sad and she's 9.0 character in just one episode is pretty good
@@killagami5658 she is probably 4'5 or something.. how can she reach up to the colossal titan's crotch?
i dont think she makes the titans like that. she lays the foundations (feet) and then says abracadabra..
@tanko.reactions176 well u see the big ramp she made? I think she made that just to reach? I'm not 100% sure tbh but she did make them all
I love that they end this episode arguing the Grandfather paradox lol
Fyi the shot of the 3 daughters eating Ymir was literally shown in the ED of Season 2, as well as the literal rumbling, but no one really understood it at the time.
literally no one, because it hadn't even been in the manga by that point either.
@@maizeman90 bro, isayama personally worked with linked horizon and the animation team at wit studio while making that ED....it is clear as day that the ED spoiled the ending to everyone the minute the manga chapters came out
@@hemanthbalgi6756 yup. This was the one time manga readers got a taste of their own spoiling medicine lol.
I think that’s what isayama is a genius in. Putting information into the show that only makes sense later where we are blown away because we‘d say „this was so obvious“ because he blatantly puts it infront of our salads but he does it because he knows exactly we still can’t make a picture out if it. It’s a great surprise effect that follows us throughout the show.
@@PeyloBeautylove that part of his writing
Hahaha love how the brothers(Cannon and Carter) diverge in their own statements of ethics and morality just shows how even tho related their own experiences and personality are different . Cannon has a more humanistic and spiritual approach while Carter is more rational and logical going to a more behavioristic approach. I can only imagine family reunions and arguments about different perspectives hahaha Great content guys 👊
1. Eren saw his own future multiple times, from there onward he does not have free will no matter how much he feels he has. Everything he did since then was to make sure the outcome line up with the future he saw.
2. Eren also saw that in future of his when kissing Historia's hand, he has to influence his dad in past by traveling through memories which Zeke will help him do it. He knew that Zeke will take him there, so he just played with him, and thanked him later.
But this isn't actually time travel, atleast not a linear or simple one. I mean Grisha only saw the future that Eren showed him to manipulate Grisha into killing Reiss family. Grisha says "The inheritor of Attack titan are able to see the memories of their future inheritors". Meaning Eren is the one in control of showing the future to his dad.
Also, Owl says something along the lines of " protect Mikasa and Armin", and then questions whose memories were those. Which means it is still unclear how far in time Eren went back in order to change the course of history the way it did.
Which stands to reason that things were always going to go the way they went. But Eren, by this logic, couldn't have known his future, as there has to be someone after Eren to inherit the Attack titan, the founding titan and royal blood (three necessary ingredient for Attack titan's power to see the memories), and that future inheritor for some unknown reason had shown Eren' future- the way Eren showed his dad the future.
@@Yourmama.69yrsago Anime Eren showing his memories to Manga Eren 👀
I dont think Eren knew Zeke would bring him there to send memories to his father, he was pretty surprised at first when find out his father can be affected by the memories.
@@Yourmama.69yrsago Being able to see future memories is strictly an attack titan ability, they don't need the founding titan or royal blood to do so. However being able to manipulate the past is only possible through the founding titan, eren would not have been able to motivate grisha to kill the reiss family if he didn't visit his memory through zekes power. Grisha was motivated by a memory of eren being inside of grishas memory thats why he can only see zeke when eren is looking at zeke. I believe eren has the ability to send himself his own future memories, i don't think there was a inheritor after him that sent it to him, thats what i think
@@AndersonMallony-EricCF He was not suprised to see his father affected by his memories, his only shock was that Grisha found where the reiss family was way before he actually confronted them, this must've been a memory he didn't send to his past self because it really isn't important. He even tells zeke that he has seen himself motivating grisha to kill them before which he could only see if he knew zeke brought him into grishas memories
Cannon is right. The Subjects of Ymir has isolated themselves from the rest of the world for hundreds of years and the Reiss Royal family has put a vow to renounced from warring against other humans. AND YET, MARLEY INSTIGATED THE REST OF THE WORLD TO PROSECUTE AND DESTROY ALL ELDIANS. Eren only has a few years left and he doesn't trust anyone else to save PARADIS since ERWIN is already gone.
nah LMFAO declaration of war was engineered by Yeager Bros for their own benefits and paradis was never Eren's priority, and Erwin is a man of humanity and he would never support Genocide
@@bloodborne7698 exactly, idk why people either ignore this detail or simlpy just didn't pick on it, the yeagar bros didn't care about paradis they planed for willy's declaration of war and zeke puched him in that direction to benefit themselves
@@bloodborne7698 Erwin would have supported Eren decisión it’s literally kill or be killed here Erwin would easily chose his people
@@scootertothekneecap9435 dawg he sent his soldier on a suicide mission, also Man didn't bother to greet hardcore yeagerist / pro-rumbling Floch meanwhile he's constantly leading "GENOCIDE IS WRONG" gang
@@scootertothekneecap9435 all his life he tried to prove that his theory that people existed outside the walls was correct, why would it make sense to think that he wanted to destroy all that?
To answer your question, Yes. Attack on Titan is the G.O.A.T.
nah
@@Eternalkeyy what is the Goat then
@@RaffyDGoat dragon ball negs anime
@@Eternalkeyy dragon ball is so ass ☠️
@@Eternalkeyy people watch DB for the fights. They watch AOT for the story. That's the difference between a kids anime and an actual masterpiece.
The sequence with Ymir is one of my favorites ever put to film.
Most people seem to have forgotten that multiple Eldians, like Mr. Ksaver said they wished they weren't born. Thats one of the main motivations for Zeke. Since they said that, he saw that as a solution.
Its still a shitty solution but to Zeke and those who have suffered, it makes sense.
I prefer his solution to Eren's
People like that who would rather die than exist should be allowed to do that, but not to take anyone else with them. To decide that other people deserve to never be born, regardless of whether or not they would want to live, is the height of eugenicist arrogance and is pure evil. It goes from simply wrong to actually evil, by believing that it is good.
You don't know what's going on in a person's mind. You don't know if they are drowning in misery over their unfulfilling lives, or if they have instead embraced their lives and reached enlightened contentment. To decide that a person with a similar life to yours _must_ be just as miserable as you and therefore _must_ be as angry and suicidal as you... how dare the person who feels that way, who wishes they'd never been born and actually believes that they can make that suicidal decision for anyone but themselves. And how dare Zeke.
@@nightwishisthegreatestband6355 Its still a genocide.
Even Eren said it once.
Multiple regular humans have also said they wish they weren't born. Countless animals have likely had that thought while being eaten. So by that logic Zeke should want to eliminate all humans, and all life in general. So Eren is actually coming far closer to fulfilling Zeke's goal. So no, Zeke's character and plan do _not_ make sense.
I kind of get what Jack was trying to say at the beginning. Zeke thought it was a bad thing to be born and saw himself as a savior who was "freeing" Eldians from their suffering by eliminating them.
Yea but that's silly because Eldians very clearly don't want that. Most of them were happy to be born, unlike Zeke. He's just projecting his pain onto everyone else, which is not a good reason to do anything let alone euthanize an entire race of people.
*"There was a man so wise*
*He ran towards a monkey man*
*And together lost their minds.*
*And when he knew His might lived on*
*He offered no regrets.*
*He summoned up a vision*
*And squared an age old debt."*
- Children's Rhyme, from 'Memories of Paradis' by Historia Reiss
I relate so much with Cannons struggle, because Eren is also my favorite character so watching him become this monster also conflicted me.
This character arc has been fantastic from Carter and Cannon. From "Whyyyyy Attack on Titan broooo??" to "damn dude, this shit got deep"
1:30 no, Zeke's thought is easy. "If I were never born, I would not need to suffer. If Eldians were not born, we would not need to suffer."
19:08 So true. Remind me of Azumabito’s remark to Floch, all u r doing is just making ur world smaller , killing will continue as it always has been
Really appreciate the honesty and genuine open discussion in the beginning. Even if it was long, the maturity displayed just makes these reactions all the more enjoyable.
The whole scene where walls are destroyed and whole music and tension is for me the best scene in entire series
McKay Bombastic Side Eyes still top tier entertainment. Welcome back guys
Somebody else said it but I’m reiterating for importance: Ymir spends millions/billions/trillions of years toiling away in paths to create titans and heal them as well. 2000 years is one thing: the actual time she spent there is unfathomable.
Ymir is undoubtedly the most tragic character of AOT, and I’m happy that Eren her free
Well, with all we know thus far (did you read the manga?) he didnt really set her free did he? By killing all humans except eldians, only eldians will remain. And as long as the 9 will remain, people will fight over their powers, and Ymir will continue to have to make them. As long as the Power of the Titans remains, Ymir will suffer
I really like to see the discussion here. It’s so complex, it’s such a dilemma even if fictional
Just want to say
This episode is a masterpiece
The soundtrack, the story of ymir,the sadness ,the horror ,
Everything was awesome
I think Carter is on point. There’s only one timeline and there’s no changing the past with alternative timelines. What Eren’s doing he’s already done
Eren and Aot. The greatest piece of fiction and the greatest protagonist.
I think it's cool how we've seen this expression 14:47 on multiple people during the show, like it's an universal expression to convey the same feeling
Your reactions have been great. Thank you for the continued uploads.
Fun fact: When the hands are pointing at Ymir there are 13 of them referencing the curse of Ymir making Titan shifters only live 13 years.
I just realized that, every time eren transformed into titan,his screams, are rage for freedom.
Wait- wtf😮
shes been waiting over 2000 years btw. since it were 2000 years in the real world and has zeke explained (and the whole titan building) time passes differently in there. she just build tens of millions of titans with one bucket of water and sand
Listening to the discussion part about timeline, you guys really need to check out Dark series. The plot will absolutely blow your minds! And the actings performed by all casts are phenomenal! But anyways, this is another very enjoyable reaction video^^ looking forward to the next one!
26:53 "someone really smart is laughing at us right now"
I wasn't 😄 I was focused with u guys's process to try to understand and solve that issue, until u said that, THEN I laughed 🤣🤣
A cool detail is how every time a Titan does some weird shit the lightning during the transformation reveals it. Like how Eren’s transformation also had lightning going under the walls showing he was using the Founder to undo their hardening. Another example is when Eren used hardening for the first time to stop the cavern from collapsing on the Scouts in season 3 part 1
I love the title parallels!! "To You, in 2000 Years" VS "From You, 2000 Years Ago"
To Zeke, Eldian existence is misery/pain/tragedy so he is fighting for them not to go through the stuff Eldian's before them have gone through
All creatures experience pain, so by that logic Zeke should want to eliminate all life on earth. Eren's plan is far better for realizing Zeke's goal than Zeke's plan.
McKay is our reaction representative. I swear his side glances and faces are my exact feelings knowing what Carter & Cannon are about to witness 😂
Cannon being big brained!! also loved the grandfather paradox discussion at the end.
Probably my favorite episode of season 4 honestly. I love seeing Eren being absolutely unhinged, Ymir's backstory answered a lot of questions, and the pure chaos and magnificence of the ending is top-tier anime. Also, some of the best music, nothing can beat YouSeeBIGGIRL/T:T though.
I love when they talk about time travel. The whole killing your dad thing is a time paradox whereas what Eren finds himself in is more of a time loop
It's crazy how episode 1 was named "To you, in 2,000 years" and now this episode
Just remember that scene at the start of s4 where Eren shifted 3 times. She probably spent a decade building those in what was like 3 hours of real time.
The comeback of my favorite reactors omg 😩😩
All of this time travel discussion got me thinking that you might really enjoy watching the show named "Dark".
Eren (4x20) : “Rather than letting someone steal my freedom, I'll steal theirs first.” 🔥
So happy to have Studio Gek back ❤
You know, everyone, has had that time travel conversation with their friends at some point XD
24:30 thats called "The Granpa" paradox
i just love this show
18:30 Also something I think the series was implying towards the beginning of season 4 was that technology was advancing quite rapidly. They aren't living in the viking times or old times anymore where having the power of a Titan meant you could dominate everything. Weaponry was advancing to the point where killing Titans was getting easier and easier. If Eren did nothing and just waited, eventually, Marley and the outside world would be able to deal with the Titan power easily. So Eren wiping out 80% of the outside population to basically reset everyone on an equal playing field. This allowed all the ones he cared about to live out a long fulfilling life.
The instant arguing at the revelation of what Eren is doing gets me every time. It always sparks controversial conversations
Cannon I missed you bro ❤
glad you guys are back!
I missed YOU
@@cannonandrus5554 liar 👀
From the time travel conversation, a good show that tackles this subject is Steins;Gate, you should really watch it, it's kinda weird at the start, as in like it's very anime, but if you choose to keep going, you will put this show in your top 5 at least.
So happy to have you guys back, I would watch ur attack on titan videos every lunchtime between classes and you guys have come back just in time for my last term. These vids put the biggest smile on my face 😁😁
The time paradox discussion at the end of the episode is great 😂 Did you think you were getting into a time loop story with AOT??
I like the little podcast about time travel at the end :DD
AoT seems to use a fixed timeline, relying on the B-theory of time. Meaning that there is not privileged point in time we call "now". "Now" is just a subjective construct of our minds. Instead, all of time has always existed equally to each other. 2000 Years ago is equal to now. The time loop we see with the memories from the future affecting the past has always existed, it was never created. This view of time also has some interesting implications on free will, mostly that it doesn't exist.
This!
so funny seeing the guys trying to find a solution for Grandfather paradox 😅 btw Cannon I’m totally with you!! ❤
If you think about it in real world time and from everyone else’s perspective, literally the moment right after Gabi pulled the trigger and blew Eren’s head off; lightening struck, all three walls immediately crumbled, and shit literally hit the fan as the world went up in flames and became one big apocalyptic dumpster fire.
It’s a bad day to be Gabi 💀 Sum wild wild west shit happens every time she pulls a trigger ong
First episode : To you 2000 years from now
This episode : From you 2000 years ago .
i love the little debate they had at the end about brig killing his dad in 1971 😂😂
Yeah it's crazy that an anime can make you think deeply and make arguments about the paradox of time travel
Yaaaaa, I'm thinkin they're back
whatever dude on the left said with the glasses at the start hes totally right in my opinion zeke is fighting for the eldians hes said multiple times in the story words of the nature thsi would of never happened if i was born or i wish i wasnt born zekes whole thought process is that for eldians to truly end their suffering is if they dont exist at all its quite literally the opposite of erens ideology eren believes that the only way for eldians to stop suffering is if theyre the only people to exist if anything zekes plan is more humane and logical
There's a couple countries with colossal titans in our own world. It's good to have that talk.
Eren is the hero and then ultimate villain of his own story..and this show pulled it off perfectly
Most epic episode. Incredible atmosphere and music.
17:33 "when you're the only Yeagerist in the room" i agree tho
This episode is just on a league of its own so damn crazy
I'm late so you prob won't see this but I never see this mentioned. When the king lets Ymir go (to be hunted), he says "you are free". That's the same thing that the Marylean at the end of S3 said before he pushed the Eldian off the wall to be eaten by the titans he had just created from Grisha's rebels. Another symbol of hate being a neverending cycle.
I also see both sides. It's horrible what Eren's doing but I also don't see another choice and feel like his attack on Hange a few eps back was him desperately asking for another way. Zeke's euthanasia plan is a death sentence, as soon as people don't have to worry about titan reincarnation, all of the titans would be killed off and then Paradis has no chance. Even without Zeke's pla, they are a tiny little island with outdated weapons and are about 150 yrs behind modern weaponry/transportation/etc; the titan weaponry from other countries was able to stop the titans in ep 1 until Gabby's stunt . Just one country would wipe them out if they actually waged war on them which Willy Tybur did (before Eren had even attacked).
The answer to the question in the title is absolutely YES!
Eren like "hey guys just need to drop you a voicemail real quick"
“This is the craziest thing I’ve ever seen” same bro same.
Eren warning the world like "I don't wanna do this, so don't touch us" is literally the same thing King Reiss did 100 years ago. And they've been breeding founding titans to carry on the will since then. Eren doesn't want this burden to fall on his people, for Historia to become a royal blood breeding machine.
the thing that people don't get is: peace, and freedom have the highest cost: blood. Nothing we enjoy today here now came to fruition heavily or coincidentally. It cost millions and billions of lives. Armin sadly was right... nothing gained if nothing lost. There are no solutions. Only trade-offs. And these are the themes the author directly attacks here. Themes people don't want to see plainly as they are. No solution only tradeoff and the sacrifice of it. It's not pretty... it's scary to think about. But worth it. And wrapping it in this story with these characters makes it digestible. This is what Manga and Anime are primarily.
Just remember Eren didn't declare war. Everything he has done in season 4 really only began after a declaration of war from the whole world was declared. He may not be doing the moral thing to do but it's definitely understandable.
He specifically was patient the entire speech to see if it's happening according to what he saw in visions. And only then he acted.
@@MrZlocktar the fanbase seems to have very flawed understanding about Eren's knowledge of the future that I cannot completely deny because I haven't read the manga and the anime hasn't ended, but have no reason to believe either. There are many critical things Eren 100% didn't know would happen, so it's not like he saw EVERYTHING. Even Grisha specifies its "glimpses" that the Attack Titan sees.
At the moment I see no good enough reason to think Eren saw the speech (at least as a whole) in his visions.
Not only that but he also tried and/or looked over every other option and found that none of them would’ve worked, the best possible outcome would be Eldia and Marley working it out diplomatically but as we saw in the special that wasn’t gonna work
No. It is NOT.
@@angr2773bunch of edgelords here bro.
Note how Zeke changed his way of dealing with his father. Now his is talking about Grisha as THEIR father when before he was talking about him saying to Eren "YOUR father".
It is a little extreme but I complete get where Eren is coming from. He literally tried to give the outside world a chance, but once he realized its them or us, then it is always us.