Worth mentioning it's easy to just say "data", but there are many types of data, some types we wish to hold tighter than others. Meta snags every type of data they can get their hands on. But from what I can tell, Valve only really cares about the basics like your gaming hardware, name, email and the games you play. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't seen any terms & agreements pages from valve that mention taking face tracking or microphone data etc. This is a big difference, and the 2 companies shouln't rlly be lumped into 1 pile on this topic imo.
recently we are learning that Meta is effectively doing a man in the middle attack on almost every internet user through the assortment of API's for web applications that they bought and let rot while putting malicious software in them almost every website you visit is being tracked by them due to using one of these web apps. there is a reason they sell headsets at a loss.
A decent focus near the end is put on how people are caring about the illusion of privacy, not the real thing, and how those same people are hypocrites for using discord. Yes, I know some platforms I use sell my data, but I'm willing to sacrifice some of it if it means I can be a part of some communities, participate with friends, etc. That doesn't mean that it's pointless to even try. Just using a few services by large tech companies doesn't make all of your online privacy evaporate instantly... it's just a ton of tradeoffs (which depend on how much convenience you're willing to give up).
"Just using a few services by large tech companies doesn't make all of your online privacy evaporate instantly.." Sadly it kinda does exactly that. If one giga corp knows everything about you, all that data will sooner or later be hacked or scraped, then that dataset will be sold to other corporations by hackers and opportunists. Google and Meta and all the other titans routinely buy data sets from hackers and integrate it into their own stuff. That's why when you sign up for an account you sometimes feel like the site or social network already knows way too much about you... They already have your shit from data breaches. At this point in history you absolutely do not need to even care anymore. Everything about you is known to everyone who wants to know and who has the money needed to buy the data sets. The war for privacy was lost long ago. the 1984 surveillance future that scared us in 2005 has now come and been surpassed long ago. Humans aren't that tricky to figure out. If they know a litte about you they will be able to make an AI analog of you that will reveal a lot about you that they will then use. Humans don't really come in that many varieties. We're not as unique as we tell ourselves, and the advertisers and brainwashers out there only need the gist of our identity to feed us what our minds are prone to believe. If the internet knows you're scared of trans people, the algos will feed you conservative fearmongering nonsense until your brain is mush. If your profile has some pro-palestine posts you will be fed the stuff that tends to hit home with more liberally minded/progressive folks. That's why the internet is mostly rage bait these days... We all fall for it, and the algos know us well enough to feed us the right kind of rage bait. Everything they need to know is already out there. We lost this one.
I once had to remove a logged in user on Quest 2 at my work. There literally was no option to do so, I had to do a factory reset of a headset which caused even more issues later on (like not being able to activate new account from a phone, because app couldn't find the headset at all and so on). Also you have the option to cast the view from headset to a browser installed on PC. Guess where this option is. In a freakin camera... Not in a status bar, not in apps, not in settings, but in a camera. Meta's software is a nightmare, not intuitive and all these requirements for being logged in to Facebook make these headset virtually unusable for some people. I've heard that even some guys had to refund Quest 2 only because they couldn't activate their account, imagine that.
Also streaming is just a pain, works on some hardware/software combinations half of the time, it's hard to show it to friends when using their gear. I'd prefer for them to just gave me the IP to type it in browser and not to require internet access nor login.
Every time I fire up my Q3, the thought flashes through my mind how much I fucking hate that FB (intelligence agency) swallowed up Oculus and fucked over Luckey Palmer's baby. 😒
Haha yep Meta js just an arm of the US government. Palmer made the decision to sell to them sooooo. Even after what they did to him he doesn't seem bitter. Dude is rolling in cash and here we are with a legit VR industry. One day we will have an alternative, but Meta can be the stepping stone.
i am genuinely sad that this channel is not bigger the production the humor it all ticks a vibe that leaves me wanting more i beg KEEP THE CONTENT ROLLING please
What’s meta is doing is way worse then what valve does for example. Meta allegedly collects data from the headsets cameras and microphones. Yes, valve collects data about what games I play, and if I want, I can let them collect data about my hardware. Not to talk about the lawsuit about meta selling private messenger messages. In my country a bunch of people use messenger as their main online communication form. And if they are selling privates messages, data about your room and your environment are probably sold too. Yes, valve offers me games based on what I played….
We lose when we start asking such questions. Meta is a shitty company which makes good VR headsets. I was mad when it was necessary to have a facebook account to use Quest 2 so I skipped it, but now when they changed that rule, I was okay with buying Quest 3. And you are so right, corps aren't our friends. We just live in this time when you must pay with your -soul- data to use a good product. But for meta haters I have one alternative - PIco 4. Chinese will steal your data instead of meta, and pico even got unofficial Beat Saber recently. I was going to buy Pico 4, but got scammed by seller on aliexpress, so instead bought Quest 3. Maybe someday someone will make a "free VR" DIY-kit headset which won't steal data and will be great for using with PC... Oh well, data still goes to Microsoft and Valve. Shit. I guess we already lost.
Say what you will about Chinese data theft and spying, but at least that data tends to stay in china and not get sold internationally Still a bad option tho
@@metrotyler I bought a Ryzen 7 processor there prior, went perfect, no complains. Also I was thinking that if it comes - I get good and cheap headset, and if it doesn't, I get my money back and buy Quest 3
Gonna share my opinion on that. I do have my conserns about privacy, but I don't ignore that indeed all companies does gather data from users. That being said meta has a history of selling that data around the globe and is mainly getting revenue from advertisement based on that. Sure vavle does to but I'd say mostly to improve their product. It's the same point of vue I have with social media,if they collect data only to run an algorithm on the platform I'm already into by choice, then fine. If it relates to outside use and especially advertising, then no. At least that's my take on what made me discriminate the headset and company I wanted to buy stuff from.
Meta is our fault. If no one would buy meta devices cheap in exchange of a ton of user data, then they might consider other solutions too. But until everyone is okay getting technology cheap and doesn’t care about the consequences, they will do it.
@@nagyFerko you can't blame the people for purchasing a device that is accessible to the majority that want in on the VR world. The companies behind the devices are the problem. Mark only changed the name because of his disgusting ways and legal history behind Facebook. Like I said before he's the problem. Many have fled Facebook/Meta because of this reality. The company owners are lacking a high level of morality.
That bit at the end is exactly the way it is and it’s always refreshing to see people that can see through the marketing and PR nonsense these companies try to constantly shove down our throats!
I love Valve as Steam has great features like Family Sharing and good refund policy's NEVER had an issue with their support and never had major glitches with their software. They also made my favorite games and they make it really easy to "legally" obtain video games with multiplayer which is great for me and my friends as we don't live in a very rich country so we can test out games before purchasing them. They also do great stuff like localizing game prices and did great stuff with proton which helped me a lot when I had to use Linux as my PC then was that bad. Also Steam Workshop made it very easy to mod the games I play.
I will say that Meta has invested way more into VR than I ever expected. Yes they have motives for the platform being successful, but they're pushing to make VR as a whole not fail as it has multiple times already. I'll give them credit where it is due.
You make a good point with the data stuff about how Valve is no different to Meta collecting your information, for me its if the information is identifiable for example idc if Valve wants to use my steam browsing activity to recommend me games since thats kind of the core part of a digital distribution platform the same goes with youtube use my watch history to recommend me videos however identifiable information is where I draw the line for another example Google at most definitely knows the contents of your gmail emails and may collect it/sell it.
I'm giving quest pro a try. But in the fitness community they die like flies. Multiple friends that do dancing have had 3 to 6 quest pro eyetracking die. Meta warranty have replaced them everytime tho. But in countries with just 1 year warranty like us it's still too short lifespan. In eu you get 2 to 3 years warranty and that's more okay.
@@shiro3146 How many apps are actually supporting it? Also new games will drop support for the quest 2 and pro just like the new alien game only comes to the quest 3 and pcvr and psvr2. But yeah, buy it because a few cameras you won’t even use most of the time.
We do need competition though, that why meta is enemy for me, if we won't create market for other companies then we might make a monopoly on standalone vr, and that really bad. We should make companies fight for us, not other way around.
I Get That but valve literally has the best ip and will only create one game when they can shake the VR market like they did with HLA, meanwhile other companies software is bad and won't invest in VR games at all. Don't let me speak about Vive, they just stabbed themselves
I think that highlighting which of the 2 is more predatory is a better way of handling the topic. In that instance, I think Facebook has done a lot worse than simply selling your data.
I'm just still so torn. Valve hasn't really given us a reason to fear how our data is used but Meta has. Targeted marketing and ads are practically unavoidable, but Meta is.. a train wreck when it comes to privacy. You're absolutely right about the illusion of privacy, but there is some merit to all these allegations and lawsuits- Valve might be using my data to market games to me and serve me ads online, but Meta has done far worse. I'm also still torn between a Quest 3, saving my money but having to deal with more inside-out tracking, or blow my savings on a beyond and knuckles so I have something future-proof. Or just waiting, my Reverb G2 is pretty slick honestly. Might be old but the fact it's the same cost as a quest 2 secondhand and beats all but the newest headsets in visuals is something to think about.
I've been in the VR space since 2013 when I got my Oculus Rift DK1. I've since had the OSVR HDK2(similar specs to the HTC-Vive but crappy drivers), the HTC-Vive(still using it but dang, that flyscreen is so bad) and I'm waiting on a Meta Quest 3 to arrive in the next couple of days. My reason for getting the Quest 3 is quite simply what you say here, it's the best bang for buck VR headset available at the moment and unless someone else was willing to provide a better deal, this is what I'm going for. If they want to sell my data, well, there's not much I can do about that, but since I'll mostly be using it for PCVR anyway(using SteamLink) I guess Valve will be collecting and selling my data as well.
People need to stop viewing Valve as the goodie two-shoes of the video game industry. They released a massively expensive and extremely fragile VR package, made one game, then didn't do jack shit for almost half a decade... then they drop a really bad and stripped down competitor to Virtual Desktop/Airlink... And all rumors of a next gen headset has dried up in the last year or so. At this point I doubt they're actually even in the VR game anymore aside from having to reluctantly update the dilapidated shitheap called Steam VR so it'll kinda-sorta work still.... Which it does most of the time, but about 1/3 of the times I launch a steam game it kinda just craps out. Been true for 6 years on 3 different PCs. I view Valve as yet another greedy corporation doing whatever they can to fleece the people and doing as much as it takes to make a small number of diehard fans sing their praises. Doesn't take much, seeing as they're still touted as the good guys even though they're literally sitting on the sidelines doing jack squat... Remember the 3 games Valve was working on for VR back when they released the Index? Yeah, they're either abandoned or were just lies/plans that changed. For better or worse, right now, Meta is the only actor in the VR space that gives one singular flying fuck about VR. Sony don't care, Microsoft don't care, Valve don't care, Samsung MIGHT care but they're gonna go head to head with Apple, Apple don't care about VR gaming, HP are probably done with VR forever. Meta has spent more money than all the other companies combined... Because the other companies haven't really spent that much. I can't stand meta, but what they've done for VR has been enormous. Before the Quest 1 came out, VR was kinda fading away. It's easy to forget, but PCVR was hurting BAD before the Quest 1 came out. The Quests got a lot of blame for PCVR "dying", but PCVR was struggling in a MASSIVE WAY already by 2018. Devs had released their first games, they made no money, then they stopped making VR games and there was a massive drought. Then the Quest came out, those devs started making a bit of money again, then the Quest 2 came out and those devs made a LOT more money, all the while no one gave a shit about PCVR, just like in 2018. Without Meta, PCVR would have died, and without the Quests, VR could also just have died. There was a stretch of time where we were cusping on annihilation. There was no other VR company sitting around waiting to "save" VR in that era, without Meta we would be f*cked. That's a fact. I'm thankful for the fact that all the evils in the world converged in such a way as to create something good for once. A rich prick with endless hubris blows enormous wealth on a project few believe in.. Sometimes it works out, sometimes we get a full scale Noah's Ark...
At this point I'm beyond caring about who does what with my data. Convenience comes at a cost and fighting for data privacy in this era is a Sisyphean task. I'd rather pick a more reasonable battle to spend my limited time and energy on. If they're not selling my data to someone who could use the info to locate and cause harm to me and others I care about, I'm fine.
Damn, this is great stuff. Speaking so many facts too. A lot of people are blinded from liking Valve and conveniently ignore everything they do as bad as the competition. Having said that, they're still *the best* company, but even they're still doing bare minimum to some degree.
Honestly I'd love to know what the best headset is. Except I live in Australia meaning that only 3 options are actually available to me without importing things. Vive, Meta/Oculus or HP Reverb headsets. It ended up being a decision between a Vive Cosmos or a Meta Quest 2. I almost got the quest 2 but then meta forced everyone to have Facebook accounts, upped the price by 300 dollars (from 450 to 750) which when combined with the link cable ended up costing nearly 150 dollars more than the Cosmos and then I started hearing about people having their headsets turned into paperweights. Safe to say I didn't end up getting a quest. So I got the cosmos instead, and to be honest I'm pretty happy. Hell the cable has turned out to be pretty study. Which is something that cannot be said about the Reverb G2 when I did my research on it. That cable breaks like wet paper. I just wish more options were available to smaller markets
Sad things about Meta - people saying its working only under vpn around here (only vr headset with this problem at market), I hear so much good things about it but afraid to try. Sticking with my vive 1 for now
Honestly I agree. From a personal standpoint, I am getting a Bigscreen Beyond soon because I have weighed the pros and cons, but I would never recommend it to a newcomer. Of course I've hyped the headset up towards my friends, but I would never recommend them to spend $1,600 on a beyond, basestations, and controllers, unless that suits them, and if it does, it's not really my place to be recommending it anyways.
Thank you for telling it like it is, Every other youtuber is here bashing Meta, and praising Valve. Every company has it's flaws like you mentioned. The VR community needs to unite :)
havent watched the vid yet, but i justify meta for one reason: no other HMD manufacturer has even ATTEMPTED to sell in australia from as early as they did, Quest 1, Rift S, any meta owned device, was sold here OFFICIALLY. Varjo, HTC, Valve, Bigscreen, all of them. IF they are sold here, its through a "partner" where you have to obey the "partner" warranty (typically 30 days for parts and servicing, 0 days change of mind, no free shipping. 100 pages of Ts and Cs apply) until another headset can come out that delivers that one feature, ill turn a blind eye to anything meta do, also valve got the arseache with australia cos of their OLD refund policy which actually BROKE FEDERAL LAW here and they were sued, so even if valve sold index, deck, or deckard here, they'd be below meta, because they got butthurt that "other country have consumer laws that aren't terrible" (the new good world liked refund policy they have IS THANKS TO AUSTRALIANS, not valve, they didnt want it)
I think VR is getting their footing and making sure that it sets a foundation for future products or businesses to involve themselves with. META has so many games that now is becoming annoying and every time a game has that Meta logo or video next to it, it just makes me sigh because I know it'll have a game that'll be on standalone, but wont be as good as if it were on PC. But at the same time, they're bringing more people options to play games without hardware that costs $2k. Valve on the other hand... they just have steam and does nothing else but sit around and ponder "what's the next best thing for us to 'revolutionize?" What makes me more upset is Valve CAN make a headset like Meta, but only doesn't because they know VR is in a tough spot right now and doesn't WANT to make anything until the scene gets a better audience. BUT, I also think that the community for VR games are not established fully yet. Sure some games are thrown out there like VR Chat, Pavlov, and maybe some singleplayer games, but at the end of the day, it's still "new" because the tech isn't worth it yet to some people (even though the price tag for a Meta Quest 3 is nice in comparison to other VR headsets.) But VR is still in it's infancy and hopefully soon by the end of the next 2 years, maybe, just maybe, we'll see something where VR becomes a much better experience. I pray for haptic gloves, smell sensors, and everything in-between to "actually" be immersed into a VR game or social network (maybe like Ready Player One but without it's dystopian vibes.)
to be real, telling us they will unlock file access in v63 after they said it was a mistake in the ptc version, then them STILL KEEPING IT LOCKED, is a dick move, but what can i do
Well I sideloaded everything I need to my mq2 and set it to offline for the rest of its lifespan. For me meta made a cheapo good vr headset. But if you use it normally ?: Good Luck
Yes both companies steal data, but it's how that data is used that I really care about. I don't really mind if Valve uses data like what games I play and how long and stuff, but I don't support Facebook tracking all the wild shit they do. Also, I just can't support a company that has made so many immoral decisions such as Meta/Facebook.
I don`t understand why people care so much about defending one company or the other. They are just that, companys who want money. And srry to hear that you've lost friends only because of an opinion about Meta, cause thats stupid to hate someone just because of that. Welcome back :3 and hope your havin a nice day
Sounds like my first face cushion experience. I heard that was a common occurrence, sent a face scan for a new one, and got the second one in the mail for free after a couple weeks. It was a much better feeling for sure. There's room for improvement still but I'm thinking that's on me because I was having a hard time getting the scan to work smoothly and I had limited time to use the iPhone I was borrowing so I settled for whatever I could get to work in the moment. It's a real shame the closest Apple store is a 2-3 hour drive away.
Oh no, we dislike society but we participate in society... :P Also, the whole thing with Quests being sold at a loss is a massive part of the reason people hate Meta. A big part of the reason most other headsets suck or are designed and targeted only for business customers is that no one else wants or even can fight dirty like Meta.
It's a good video and pretty much sums up the VR business up to 2024. Each headset is good but has its own big flaws. But for the moment as of right now, Meta just makes the best ones for the price tag it offers for. You don't really need a Facebook account to play with it and to be honest, I'm not surprised if companies do take your data to give you the fitting advertises and I honestly wouldn't care less about that. Selling your Data is pretty much guaranteed if you are willing to invest into big/quality electronics, it's part of the capitalism we live in.
I am malding so hard rn; I just checked in on mah main man boneless just to find out we git a whole new video waiting that got no fucking notifications ***WHAT SO FUCKING EVER*** why must youtube be this fucking way omg just tell me when my senpai posts please am begging ya here
"Valve - good guy"? For consumers - sure it is. It's not so "good" for developers though, whom are robbed by 30%. Just for being in store and ability to being downloaded.
There is no such thing as ethical consumption under capitalism. Im getting a pico 4 pro, which is the direct competition to meta's quest 3. Am I concerned about my privacy by buying a headset made in china? Sure, but Meta has influence in the United States, and doesnt deserve my money. If china sells my info ...well i dont live in china. It wont affect me the same. There are no "good guys" or "bad guys" here, but your money is yours to use where you see fit.
Technically it can affect you even if you don't live in China. It's a bit far fetched of a scenario, but if they sell your data to a random company and this company gets hacked or leaks that data, it will end up in a dark web or all over the internet. Even Pico or Meta themselves may be breached. The chances that someone could target YOU specifically using this data set are small, unless you are someone important or well known, but still, everyone could look it up on a whim if they know where to look for. Personally I wouldn't give up on buying stuff because of that, but it's good to be somewhat aware of what might happen if you get unlucky. And in this case it doesn't mean sh*t whether someone lives in China or not, it's more important if a company you're giving away your data sells it further or can even keep it safe (relatively).
There are two seperate issues here. Meta, as a company, objectively sucks. they've enabled terrible practices on facebook and their lacks attitude, particularly in non-western countries, may have had a hand in seriously exacerbating tensions to the point of violence. They've failed in their responsibilities as a social platform. This is something a company like valve is not guilty of. The data thing is not good but yeah every company does that. But like you said their VR stuff is pretty much the best bang for buck right now, and probably will be untill valve releases the index 2. if they ever get around to that. So the fairly justified dislike for meta manifests itself as a dislike for products which are actually good. The question then becomes more personal, I can totally understand people who don't want to give meta money, even if they have vr stuff that is good.
Great video topic. Meta is both the good guy and the bad guy. I see them as a stepping stone. Nobody else was willing to put in money for VR which makes them good. However their businesses practices are just plain awful and just because other companies do the same doesn't make them better. When there is a good alternative, which there will be eventually, we jump towards that. However, I have a love hate relationship with Meta but VR simply would not be where it is without them. They are a needed evil.
Thanks, Boneless, for another great video. I am sure I am going to be hated for this comment, but "What is this 'privacy' thing you are talking about? I thought that was a myth created in the 1990's." Technically, we get a whole bunch of things for free (browsers that are convenient, work between our phones and computers, recommend the next youtube we should watch, etc.) and, if we read the EULA or whatever on all the things we get, we are in agreement that the larger corporations can use and sell the data that is captured on our behaviours when we use that free stuff. Sorry, it's just that I remember the 1960's and I remember when you paid for EVERYTHING, including the time you had to spend watching commercials to see the neat Saturday morning cartoons. And we want more, and more, and more...but do not really want to pay the "true" value, if we ever valued the truth. Anyway, this is not a slight against privacy or that we should not fight for it, but sometimes our "boomer" (born in the 60's) desire for a "free" version of something leads to this conundrum. I agree, though, we owe these corporations NOTHING, and personally I think we are creating a world where profit growth is showing us that greed is king...but we really should be more conscious of what we are actively signing into. Again, great video, great way to get the gears turning in the old 'noggin. Thanks again!
im sorry, but i will always stand that the best headset company out there is google, in terms of price is outmatched, as the only thing you need to buy is a piece of cardboard, the only other company that comes close in price is Varjo, as their varjo aero is currently priced at 0 dolars due to the headset not being for sale anymore, if you read this far into my shitpost, you earned yourself a cookie, in terms of availability, the only thing i can recomend is a pimax headset, since it's the only one that has an fov worth something, in conclusion, meta sucks, and their users are all children
The truth is that most people don't really care about their data being collected, they've heard it's bad and they behave like they do. Kids being majority of users? Why does it matter who buys the stuff you buy? You're not forced to play with them or anything, it's like Fortnite "It's a child's game" while 99% of people don't even have their voice chat and you end up playing a normal game like any other. They complain because they need something to complain about, it's always been the case with popular things and now it's easier than ever, because all it takes is for some woke twitter post or a youtube video to gather a cult that will grow and hate something they happen to be bored enough to hate. Great video btw, very nice to hear more people have this mindset.
I don't think you can really do that much in VR since you can't use your legs much so the quest 1 is all you really need for a balanced headset that doesn't promise too much. It's just a fun toy at the end of the day quest 1 games were as engaging or more engaging than recent titles.
meta software sucks. sometimes it works sometimes it dosen't or sometimes it just will not work for some reason no matter what you try. Using steam link fixes 99% of the problems, but its still not perfect. REDO YOUR SOFTWARE META.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
Love that last statement..."We owe these corporations NOTHING"
As long you live in a capitalist country .
Worth mentioning it's easy to just say "data", but there are many types of data, some types we wish to hold tighter than others. Meta snags every type of data they can get their hands on. But from what I can tell, Valve only really cares about the basics like your gaming hardware, name, email and the games you play. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't seen any terms & agreements pages from valve that mention taking face tracking or microphone data etc. This is a big difference, and the 2 companies shouln't rlly be lumped into 1 pile on this topic imo.
recently we are learning that Meta is effectively doing a man in the middle attack on almost every internet user through the assortment of API's for web applications that they bought and let rot while putting malicious software in them
almost every website you visit is being tracked by them due to using one of these web apps.
there is a reason they sell headsets at a loss.
A decent focus near the end is put on how people are caring about the illusion of privacy, not the real thing, and how those same people are hypocrites for using discord.
Yes, I know some platforms I use sell my data, but I'm willing to sacrifice some of it if it means I can be a part of some communities, participate with friends, etc. That doesn't mean that it's pointless to even try. Just using a few services by large tech companies doesn't make all of your online privacy evaporate instantly... it's just a ton of tradeoffs (which depend on how much convenience you're willing to give up).
"Just using a few services by large tech companies doesn't make all of your online privacy evaporate instantly.."
Sadly it kinda does exactly that. If one giga corp knows everything about you, all that data will sooner or later be hacked or scraped, then that dataset will be sold to other corporations by hackers and opportunists. Google and Meta and all the other titans routinely buy data sets from hackers and integrate it into their own stuff. That's why when you sign up for an account you sometimes feel like the site or social network already knows way too much about you... They already have your shit from data breaches.
At this point in history you absolutely do not need to even care anymore. Everything about you is known to everyone who wants to know and who has the money needed to buy the data sets.
The war for privacy was lost long ago. the 1984 surveillance future that scared us in 2005 has now come and been surpassed long ago.
Humans aren't that tricky to figure out. If they know a litte about you they will be able to make an AI analog of you that will reveal a lot about you that they will then use. Humans don't really come in that many varieties. We're not as unique as we tell ourselves, and the advertisers and brainwashers out there only need the gist of our identity to feed us what our minds are prone to believe.
If the internet knows you're scared of trans people, the algos will feed you conservative fearmongering nonsense until your brain is mush. If your profile has some pro-palestine posts you will be fed the stuff that tends to hit home with more liberally minded/progressive folks. That's why the internet is mostly rage bait these days... We all fall for it, and the algos know us well enough to feed us the right kind of rage bait.
Everything they need to know is already out there. We lost this one.
I once had to remove a logged in user on Quest 2 at my work. There literally was no option to do so, I had to do a factory reset of a headset which caused even more issues later on (like not being able to activate new account from a phone, because app couldn't find the headset at all and so on).
Also you have the option to cast the view from headset to a browser installed on PC. Guess where this option is. In a freakin camera... Not in a status bar, not in apps, not in settings, but in a camera. Meta's software is a nightmare, not intuitive and all these requirements for being logged in to Facebook make these headset virtually unusable for some people. I've heard that even some guys had to refund Quest 2 only because they couldn't activate their account, imagine that.
Also streaming is just a pain, works on some hardware/software combinations half of the time, it's hard to show it to friends when using their gear. I'd prefer for them to just gave me the IP to type it in browser and not to require internet access nor login.
Every time I fire up my Q3, the thought flashes through my mind how much I fucking hate that FB (intelligence agency) swallowed up Oculus and fucked over Luckey Palmer's baby. 😒
Haha yep Meta js just an arm of the US government. Palmer made the decision to sell to them sooooo. Even after what they did to him he doesn't seem bitter. Dude is rolling in cash and here we are with a legit VR industry. One day we will have an alternative, but Meta can be the stepping stone.
i am genuinely sad that this channel is not bigger the production the humor it all ticks a vibe that leaves me wanting more i beg KEEP THE CONTENT ROLLING please
What’s meta is doing is way worse then what valve does for example. Meta allegedly collects data from the headsets cameras and microphones. Yes, valve collects data about what games I play, and if I want, I can let them collect data about my hardware. Not to talk about the lawsuit about meta selling private messenger messages. In my country a bunch of people use messenger as their main online communication form. And if they are selling privates messages, data about your room and your environment are probably sold too. Yes, valve offers me games based on what I played….
Yeah they are definitely the bad guys problem is the bad guys made absolutely amazing vr's
The tedh for the metaquest was not zuckie or meta's own tho.
Just stolin..
I mean.. Ripped offu
We lose when we start asking such questions. Meta is a shitty company which makes good VR headsets. I was mad when it was necessary to have a facebook account to use Quest 2 so I skipped it, but now when they changed that rule, I was okay with buying Quest 3. And you are so right, corps aren't our friends. We just live in this time when you must pay with your -soul- data to use a good product. But for meta haters I have one alternative - PIco 4. Chinese will steal your data instead of meta, and pico even got unofficial Beat Saber recently. I was going to buy Pico 4, but got scammed by seller on aliexpress, so instead bought Quest 3.
Maybe someday someone will make a "free VR" DIY-kit headset which won't steal data and will be great for using with PC... Oh well, data still goes to Microsoft and Valve. Shit. I guess we already lost.
hell yeah, we've got so much diy vr gear like fbt and face/eye tracking that we might as well go the full way and just make an open source headset lol
Say what you will about Chinese data theft and spying, but at least that data tends to stay in china and not get sold internationally
Still a bad option tho
you tried to buy a headset on aliexpress what were you even expecting
@@metrotyler I bought a Ryzen 7 processor there prior, went perfect, no complains. Also I was thinking that if it comes - I get good and cheap headset, and if it doesn't, I get my money back and buy Quest 3
@@Sychiha You got your money back?
Gonna share my opinion on that.
I do have my conserns about privacy, but I don't ignore that indeed all companies does gather data from users. That being said meta has a history of selling that data around the globe and is mainly getting revenue from advertisement based on that.
Sure vavle does to but I'd say mostly to improve their product.
It's the same point of vue I have with social media,if they collect data only to run an algorithm on the platform I'm already into by choice, then fine. If it relates to outside use and especially advertising, then no.
At least that's my take on what made me discriminate the headset and company I wanted to buy stuff from.
bro everytime you release a new vid its always a 10/10 thumbnail and great quality content, keep it up
Meta is our fault? No, it's Mark's fault, if he wasn't such a data, privacy destroyer, we would be OK with it and him.
Meta is our fault. If no one would buy meta devices cheap in exchange of a ton of user data, then they might consider other solutions too. But until everyone is okay getting technology cheap and doesn’t care about the consequences, they will do it.
@@nagyFerko you can't blame the people for purchasing a device that is accessible to the majority that want in on the VR world. The companies behind the devices are the problem. Mark only changed the name because of his disgusting ways and legal history behind Facebook. Like I said before he's the problem. Many have fled Facebook/Meta because of this reality. The company owners are lacking a high level of morality.
I missed ur vids and since you’ve been gone I’ve managed to acquire FBT :3
That bit at the end is exactly the way it is and it’s always refreshing to see people that can see through the marketing and PR nonsense these companies try to constantly shove down our throats!
I love Valve as Steam has great features like Family Sharing and good refund policy's NEVER had an issue with their support and never had major glitches with their software. They also made my favorite games and they make it really easy to "legally" obtain video games with multiplayer which is great for me and my friends as we don't live in a very rich country so we can test out games before purchasing them. They also do great stuff like localizing game prices and did great stuff with proton which helped me a lot when I had to use Linux as my PC then was that bad. Also Steam Workshop made it very easy to mod the games I play.
I will say that Meta has invested way more into VR than I ever expected. Yes they have motives for the platform being successful, but they're pushing to make VR as a whole not fail as it has multiple times already. I'll give them credit where it is due.
You make a good point with the data stuff about how Valve is no different to Meta collecting your information, for me its if the information is identifiable for example idc if Valve wants to use my steam browsing activity to recommend me games since thats kind of the core part of a digital distribution platform the same goes with youtube use my watch history to recommend me videos however identifiable information is where I draw the line for another example Google at most definitely knows the contents of your gmail emails and may collect it/sell it.
Playing beer pong in vrchat instead meeting friends in real life is crazy
I'm giving quest pro a try.
But in the fitness community they die like flies. Multiple friends that do dancing have had 3 to 6 quest pro eyetracking die.
Meta warranty have replaced them everytime tho. But in countries with just 1 year warranty like us it's still too short lifespan.
In eu you get 2 to 3 years warranty and that's more okay.
Why the quest pro? Quest 3 is better in a lot of ways that actually matters
@@nagyFerko uhm... does quest 3 has face and eye tracking? if so then yeah! buy quest 3
@@shiro3146 How many apps are actually supporting it? Also new games will drop support for the quest 2 and pro just like the new alien game only comes to the quest 3 and pcvr and psvr2. But yeah, buy it because a few cameras you won’t even use most of the time.
the production quality of this video is crazy
I would really dig a video about the quest pro
We do need competition though, that why meta is enemy for me, if we won't create market for other companies then we might make a monopoly on standalone vr, and that really bad. We should make companies fight for us, not other way around.
I Get That but valve literally has the best ip and will only create one game when they can shake the VR market like they did with HLA, meanwhile other companies software is bad and won't invest in VR games at all. Don't let me speak about Vive, they just stabbed themselves
3:39 there's no way that shi was hilarious 😂😂😂
dude, this video is awesome, nobody else talks about the fact that all of these corps do the same thing. keep up the good work!
I think that highlighting which of the 2 is more predatory is a better way of handling the topic. In that instance, I think Facebook has done a lot worse than simply selling your data.
the motion graphics on this was dope to see behind the scenes, great video overall
im planning on upgrading to a vision pro from a quest pro , the best spatial computer ive used , got to demo one last week and was blown away
I'm just still so torn. Valve hasn't really given us a reason to fear how our data is used but Meta has. Targeted marketing and ads are practically unavoidable, but Meta is.. a train wreck when it comes to privacy. You're absolutely right about the illusion of privacy, but there is some merit to all these allegations and lawsuits- Valve might be using my data to market games to me and serve me ads online, but Meta has done far worse. I'm also still torn between a Quest 3, saving my money but having to deal with more inside-out tracking, or blow my savings on a beyond and knuckles so I have something future-proof. Or just waiting, my Reverb G2 is pretty slick honestly. Might be old but the fact it's the same cost as a quest 2 secondhand and beats all but the newest headsets in visuals is something to think about.
My issue about vr is easily explained this way, my other pc accessories don't need much other than being plugged in to work. And then theres vr.
I've been in the VR space since 2013 when I got my Oculus Rift DK1. I've since had the OSVR HDK2(similar specs to the HTC-Vive but crappy drivers), the HTC-Vive(still using it but dang, that flyscreen is so bad) and I'm waiting on a Meta Quest 3 to arrive in the next couple of days. My reason for getting the Quest 3 is quite simply what you say here, it's the best bang for buck VR headset available at the moment and unless someone else was willing to provide a better deal, this is what I'm going for. If they want to sell my data, well, there's not much I can do about that, but since I'll mostly be using it for PCVR anyway(using SteamLink) I guess Valve will be collecting and selling my data as well.
People need to stop viewing Valve as the goodie two-shoes of the video game industry. They released a massively expensive and extremely fragile VR package, made one game, then didn't do jack shit for almost half a decade... then they drop a really bad and stripped down competitor to Virtual Desktop/Airlink... And all rumors of a next gen headset has dried up in the last year or so. At this point I doubt they're actually even in the VR game anymore aside from having to reluctantly update the dilapidated shitheap called Steam VR so it'll kinda-sorta work still.... Which it does most of the time, but about 1/3 of the times I launch a steam game it kinda just craps out. Been true for 6 years on 3 different PCs.
I view Valve as yet another greedy corporation doing whatever they can to fleece the people and doing as much as it takes to make a small number of diehard fans sing their praises. Doesn't take much, seeing as they're still touted as the good guys even though they're literally sitting on the sidelines doing jack squat...
Remember the 3 games Valve was working on for VR back when they released the Index? Yeah, they're either abandoned or were just lies/plans that changed.
For better or worse, right now, Meta is the only actor in the VR space that gives one singular flying fuck about VR. Sony don't care, Microsoft don't care, Valve don't care, Samsung MIGHT care but they're gonna go head to head with Apple, Apple don't care about VR gaming, HP are probably done with VR forever.
Meta has spent more money than all the other companies combined... Because the other companies haven't really spent that much.
I can't stand meta, but what they've done for VR has been enormous. Before the Quest 1 came out, VR was kinda fading away. It's easy to forget, but PCVR was hurting BAD before the Quest 1 came out. The Quests got a lot of blame for PCVR "dying", but PCVR was struggling in a MASSIVE WAY already by 2018. Devs had released their first games, they made no money, then they stopped making VR games and there was a massive drought. Then the Quest came out, those devs started making a bit of money again, then the Quest 2 came out and those devs made a LOT more money, all the while no one gave a shit about PCVR, just like in 2018. Without Meta, PCVR would have died, and without the Quests, VR could also just have died. There was a stretch of time where we were cusping on annihilation. There was no other VR company sitting around waiting to "save" VR in that era, without Meta we would be f*cked. That's a fact.
I'm thankful for the fact that all the evils in the world converged in such a way as to create something good for once. A rich prick with endless hubris blows enormous wealth on a project few believe in.. Sometimes it works out, sometimes we get a full scale Noah's Ark...
Keep making videos like this that make us think.
At this point I'm beyond caring about who does what with my data. Convenience comes at a cost and fighting for data privacy in this era is a Sisyphean task. I'd rather pick a more reasonable battle to spend my limited time and energy on. If they're not selling my data to someone who could use the info to locate and cause harm to me and others I care about, I'm fine.
Damn, this is great stuff. Speaking so many facts too. A lot of people are blinded from liking Valve and conveniently ignore everything they do as bad as the competition.
Having said that, they're still *the best* company, but even they're still doing bare minimum to some degree.
Honestly I'd love to know what the best headset is. Except I live in Australia meaning that only 3 options are actually available to me without importing things. Vive, Meta/Oculus or HP Reverb headsets.
It ended up being a decision between a Vive Cosmos or a Meta Quest 2. I almost got the quest 2 but then meta forced everyone to have Facebook accounts, upped the price by 300 dollars (from 450 to 750) which when combined with the link cable ended up costing nearly 150 dollars more than the Cosmos and then I started hearing about people having their headsets turned into paperweights.
Safe to say I didn't end up getting a quest.
So I got the cosmos instead, and to be honest I'm pretty happy.
Hell the cable has turned out to be pretty study. Which is something that cannot be said about the Reverb G2 when I did my research on it. That cable breaks like wet paper.
I just wish more options were available to smaller markets
“HEY BONELESH”
Tooty Spotted in the place he lives in
At least he makes us all cool designs, lol
hope you get past your burn out, really well made video 🙏
Sad things about Meta - people saying its working only under vpn around here (only vr headset with this problem at market), I hear so much good things about it but afraid to try. Sticking with my vive 1 for now
Great video and you bring up some valid questions
5:22 no, the best bang for your buck is still a Quest 2. Especially a used one.
mark gimme the zuck
Honestly I agree. From a personal standpoint, I am getting a Bigscreen Beyond soon because I have weighed the pros and cons, but I would never recommend it to a newcomer. Of course I've hyped the headset up towards my friends, but I would never recommend them to spend $1,600 on a beyond, basestations, and controllers, unless that suits them, and if it does, it's not really my place to be recommending it anyways.
2:07 wasn’t great in the first place because vr is still new
Thank you for telling it like it is, Every other youtuber is here bashing Meta, and praising Valve. Every company has it's flaws like you mentioned. The VR community needs to unite :)
havent watched the vid yet, but i justify meta for one reason: no other HMD manufacturer has even ATTEMPTED to sell in australia from as early as they did, Quest 1, Rift S, any meta owned device, was sold here OFFICIALLY. Varjo, HTC, Valve, Bigscreen, all of them. IF they are sold here, its through a "partner" where you have to obey the "partner" warranty (typically 30 days for parts and servicing, 0 days change of mind, no free shipping. 100 pages of Ts and Cs apply) until another headset can come out that delivers that one feature, ill turn a blind eye to anything meta do, also valve got the arseache with australia cos of their OLD refund policy which actually BROKE FEDERAL LAW here and they were sued, so even if valve sold index, deck, or deckard here, they'd be below meta, because they got butthurt that "other country have consumer laws that aren't terrible" (the new good world liked refund policy they have IS THANKS TO AUSTRALIANS, not valve, they didnt want it)
True.
Availability is key.
I still cant buy imus in germany without wasting 2* a ps5 in cost
Wtf
I think VR is getting their footing and making sure that it sets a foundation for future products or businesses to involve themselves with. META has so many games that now is becoming annoying and every time a game has that Meta logo or video next to it, it just makes me sigh because I know it'll have a game that'll be on standalone, but wont be as good as if it were on PC. But at the same time, they're bringing more people options to play games without hardware that costs $2k.
Valve on the other hand... they just have steam and does nothing else but sit around and ponder "what's the next best thing for us to 'revolutionize?" What makes me more upset is Valve CAN make a headset like Meta, but only doesn't because they know VR is in a tough spot right now and doesn't WANT to make anything until the scene gets a better audience.
BUT, I also think that the community for VR games are not established fully yet. Sure some games are thrown out there like VR Chat, Pavlov, and maybe some singleplayer games, but at the end of the day, it's still "new" because the tech isn't worth it yet to some people (even though the price tag for a Meta Quest 3 is nice in comparison to other VR headsets.) But VR is still in it's infancy and hopefully soon by the end of the next 2 years, maybe, just maybe, we'll see something where VR becomes a much better experience.
I pray for haptic gloves, smell sensors, and everything in-between to "actually" be immersed into a VR game or social network (maybe like Ready Player One but without it's dystopian vibes.)
no one mentioning the pico 4 pro pain. its a great headset
Damn right! They owe you a majority cut of the value of your data! Back paying for how many years? Quite a few.
I asked you what headset I should buy in confidence! :O not cool calling me out man!
to be real, telling us they will unlock file access in v63 after they said it was a mistake in the ptc version, then them STILL KEEPING IT LOCKED, is a dick move, but what can i do
and thats why i sub to this channel
Well
I sideloaded everything I need to my mq2 and set it to offline for the rest of its lifespan.
For me meta made a cheapo good vr headset.
But if you use it normally ?:
Good
Luck
Virtual Mime video when?
Yes both companies steal data, but it's how that data is used that I really care about. I don't really mind if Valve uses data like what games I play and how long and stuff, but I don't support Facebook tracking all the wild shit they do. Also, I just can't support a company that has made so many immoral decisions such as Meta/Facebook.
Yea, their metas current lawsuit about selling private messenger chats to Netflix is wild if true.
yay corporate tribalism
Estimated production cost of quest 3 show they about breaking even on the hardware.
can't wait for your quest pro video :3
I don`t understand why people care so much about defending one company or the other. They are just that, companys who want money.
And srry to hear that you've lost friends only because of an opinion about Meta, cause thats stupid to hate someone just because of that.
Welcome back :3 and hope your havin a nice day
Meta has done some more bullshit than Valve in their handling of facebook. so I don't think its totally unfair to criticize meta more.
i think you might have been wearing the beyond wrong
Sounds like my first face cushion experience. I heard that was a common occurrence, sent a face scan for a new one, and got the second one in the mail for free after a couple weeks. It was a much better feeling for sure.
There's room for improvement still but I'm thinking that's on me because I was having a hard time getting the scan to work smoothly and I had limited time to use the iPhone I was borrowing so I settled for whatever I could get to work in the moment. It's a real shame the closest Apple store is a 2-3 hour drive away.
@@Nolfinkol yeah in terms of beyonds I am fairly certain I have a near perfect model as the glare is near non existent
Been saying this stuff for ages, but same reaction you got *Meta Bad!*
Absolutely
Oh no, we dislike society but we participate in society... :P
Also, the whole thing with Quests being sold at a loss is a massive part of the reason people hate Meta. A big part of the reason most other headsets suck or are designed and targeted only for business customers is that no one else wants or even can fight dirty like Meta.
Yeah absolutely.
It's a good video and pretty much sums up the VR business up to 2024. Each headset is good but has its own big flaws. But for the moment as of right now, Meta just makes the best ones for the price tag it offers for. You don't really need a Facebook account to play with it and to be honest, I'm not surprised if companies do take your data to give you the fitting advertises and I honestly wouldn't care less about that.
Selling your Data is pretty much guaranteed if you are willing to invest into big/quality electronics, it's part of the capitalism we live in.
I am malding so hard rn; I just checked in on mah main man boneless just to find out we git a whole new video waiting that got no fucking notifications ***WHAT SO FUCKING EVER*** why must youtube be this fucking way omg just tell me when my senpai posts please am begging ya here
can you not
Bro your mocking voice is enough to make me subscribe 😂😂😂
"Valve - good guy"?
For consumers - sure it is.
It's not so "good" for developers though, whom are robbed by 30%. Just for being in store and ability to being downloaded.
Youre forgetting Pico
There is no such thing as ethical consumption under capitalism. Im getting a pico 4 pro, which is the direct competition to meta's quest 3. Am I concerned about my privacy by buying a headset made in china? Sure, but Meta has influence in the United States, and doesnt deserve my money. If china sells my info ...well i dont live in china. It wont affect me the same. There are no "good guys" or "bad guys" here, but your money is yours to use where you see fit.
Technically it can affect you even if you don't live in China. It's a bit far fetched of a scenario, but if they sell your data to a random company and this company gets hacked or leaks that data, it will end up in a dark web or all over the internet. Even Pico or Meta themselves may be breached.
The chances that someone could target YOU specifically using this data set are small, unless you are someone important or well known, but still, everyone could look it up on a whim if they know where to look for. Personally I wouldn't give up on buying stuff because of that, but it's good to be somewhat aware of what might happen if you get unlucky. And in this case it doesn't mean sh*t whether someone lives in China or not, it's more important if a company you're giving away your data sells it further or can even keep it safe (relatively).
i honestly can't agree with you more.
Subbing because you're obviously gonna be huge.
Boneless only has the most BASED of opinions
yes
There are two seperate issues here. Meta, as a company, objectively sucks. they've enabled terrible practices on facebook and their lacks attitude, particularly in non-western countries, may have had a hand in seriously exacerbating tensions to the point of violence. They've failed in their responsibilities as a social platform. This is something a company like valve is not guilty of. The data thing is not good but yeah every company does that.
But like you said their VR stuff is pretty much the best bang for buck right now, and probably will be untill valve releases the index 2. if they ever get around to that. So the fairly justified dislike for meta manifests itself as a dislike for products which are actually good. The question then becomes more personal, I can totally understand people who don't want to give meta money, even if they have vr stuff that is good.
Great video topic. Meta is both the good guy and the bad guy. I see them as a stepping stone. Nobody else was willing to put in money for VR which makes them good. However their businesses practices are just plain awful and just because other companies do the same doesn't make them better. When there is a good alternative, which there will be eventually, we jump towards that. However, I have a love hate relationship with Meta but VR simply would not be where it is without them. They are a needed evil.
NAILED IT
I think they are.
HYPE HYPE BONELESS UPLOAD
Yes, yes they are.
Thanks, Boneless, for another great video. I am sure I am going to be hated for this comment, but "What is this 'privacy' thing you are talking about? I thought that was a myth created in the 1990's." Technically, we get a whole bunch of things for free (browsers that are convenient, work between our phones and computers, recommend the next youtube we should watch, etc.) and, if we read the EULA or whatever on all the things we get, we are in agreement that the larger corporations can use and sell the data that is captured on our behaviours when we use that free stuff. Sorry, it's just that I remember the 1960's and I remember when you paid for EVERYTHING, including the time you had to spend watching commercials to see the neat Saturday morning cartoons. And we want more, and more, and more...but do not really want to pay the "true" value, if we ever valued the truth. Anyway, this is not a slight against privacy or that we should not fight for it, but sometimes our "boomer" (born in the 60's) desire for a "free" version of something leads to this conundrum. I agree, though, we owe these corporations NOTHING, and personally I think we are creating a world where profit growth is showing us that greed is king...but we really should be more conscious of what we are actively signing into. Again, great video, great way to get the gears turning in the old 'noggin. Thanks again!
im sorry, but i will always stand that the best headset company out there is google, in terms of price is outmatched, as the only thing you need to buy is a piece of cardboard, the only other company that comes close in price is Varjo, as their varjo aero is currently priced at 0 dolars due to the headset not being for sale anymore, if you read this far into my shitpost, you earned yourself a cookie, in terms of availability, the only thing i can recomend is a pimax headset, since it's the only one that has an fov worth something, in conclusion, meta sucks, and their users are all children
The Google cardboard is a piece of shit.
Useless garbage.
Are you a skibidi rizzler
True bro true
yep, goodbye data 😂
MY My my
yipee! my bones!
real
Solid!!
The truth is that most people don't really care about their data being collected, they've heard it's bad and they behave like they do. Kids being majority of users? Why does it matter who buys the stuff you buy? You're not forced to play with them or anything, it's like Fortnite "It's a child's game" while 99% of people don't even have their voice chat and you end up playing a normal game like any other.
They complain because they need something to complain about, it's always been the case with popular things and now it's easier than ever, because all it takes is for some woke twitter post or a youtube video to gather a cult that will grow and hate something they happen to be bored enough to hate.
Great video btw, very nice to hear more people have this mindset.
👍
cool
I don't think you can really do that much in VR since you can't use your legs much so
the quest 1 is all you really need for a balanced headset that doesn't promise too much. It's just a fun toy at the end of the day quest 1 games were as engaging or more engaging than recent titles.
bone
W vid
i love you
I’m in love with you
Nothing is private, chances are your on some sort of federal list. Bet.
meta software sucks. sometimes it works sometimes it dosen't
or sometimes it just will not work for some reason no matter what you try.
Using steam link fixes 99% of the problems, but its still not perfect.
REDO YOUR SOFTWARE META.
works on my machine
meta don't like my country (i live in russia)
no one does