Locking Knees - THE MOST DANGEROUS LEG TECHNIQUE?
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- Is locking your Knees Out on a Leg Press dangerous? Is it going to give you knee pain or increase knee injury risk? This was the most popular question from my Leg Workout with Dr Mike Israetel & Charly Joung.
Check out Mike Israetel/Renaissance Periodization's channel - / renaissanceperiodization
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This is exactly ruclips.net/user/postUgkxUHHotQRjIQnfuxEeVotlkHVYWH0DXZoS what I needed to get some exercise while I'm stuck at my desk all day. It's just the right size. Only downsides are that the right oeddale unscrews itself while I use it and increasing the tension causes it to squeak while in use. Both are minor issues that aren't that important to me. So I give it 5 stars.
Love Dr. Mike's sense of humor, able to go from calling people weak for cringing to admitting it's weak to get a break from the constant tension haha!
Mike is a really entertaining dude to listen to
He's such a good dude!
How tf is this guy even on here?
@@harmonytodd7035 he is Justin Y. digivolution
Did you grow a moustache
Why the fuck are you everywhere?
Why?
he's also smart as fuck. dude speaks fluent Russian and has interviewed both KK and Misha in Russian
I love seeing a collab between my two favorite fitness creators!
😄😄
It’s like everyone in the comment section didn’t listen to a word in the video and just start ranting to disagree
This.
I think that's bullshit. The fact that you can perfectly handle the weight in the beginning doesn't mean you'll have perfect control over it during a set so that you could safely lock your knees out.
DPT here. I appreciate everything he says and I agree this phenomenon is rare, but from a physics standpoint he’s totally off base. When you lock out into what is actually hyperextension of the knee the moment arm of the force of the leg press switches from a flexion moment to an extension moment on the knee joint basically once you go past 0 degrees of extension. At this point the main structures that are stabilizing you by definition are ligamentous in nature instead of muscular. The main combatant to prevent hyperextension of the knee would be the hamstrings, but they have close to no mechanical advantage in full knee extension due to their line of pull being basically completely in line with the knee in that position. Also, they’re in a even worse position to support the joint due to the hip being in flexion which causes a length tension relationship where they’re in a stretched position where force output will be decreased.
So, basically what is happening when you do this is gambling with how lax your knee joint is. Most people will be fine, but there is a certain percentage who won’t be and just because we don’t have it on video doesn’t mean it’s not happening. Also, the more hyperextended your knees are the greater the torque being placed on the joint and people who have lax posterior capsules/a lot of hyperextension definitely shouldn’t be going past 0 deg of extension when doing leg press in my professional opinion.
I also don’t think it’s beneficial for anybody really because when you lock your knees out your quads aren’t even working any more really. You’re actively taking tension off of them and they’re resting passively. So if anything makes you a bitch I think it’s resting during a set and relying on passive structures for support instead of using timer under tension and muscular force. But that’s just me. (Also, that was a joke if it doesn’t carry well over the internet)
Eugene m big fan of u and ur y raises and cable reardelt fly but why don't you correct this guy who has a valid argument. WE FOLLOW N1 COACH KASSEM HANSEN OVER ANY OTHER AND WHILE YOU ARE NEAR BY KASSEM WHY DON'T YOU COLLAB WITH HIM INSTEAD OF THIS DR. CIRCUS RINGMASTER
Agree 100%. Also remaining on tension (starting the next rep just shy off lockout) and not using intra-set mini rests at the top is a valid hypertrophy technique
@@sandeepthukral4605 ??? Huh!
You need to prove that something is bad or good. Mike here is saying that locking out is fine (for people that have healthy knees, not hyper mobile etc...), read Neutral well it's positive because you wouldn't be considered bitch made I guess /j). You can do it if you want but it's not a mandatory thing. While the OP is saying that because a number that we don't have that, maybe possibly, is out there getting hurt because of locking out make it a bad thing without any proof just fearmongering that it could happen to you.
His second argument is also debatable as it's an opinion an educated one for sure but still an opinion.
Mike is a bodybuilder who has years of coaching under his belt doesn't make him an expert but he knows what is important for bodybuilders and apparently he find benefits in locking his knees out. His opinion (not FACT) is that let's say 600lbs for 20 reps with locking out and with mini rests has a better SFR than 20 reps of constant tension with for sure lower weight by at least 10%. Also don't forget that those 20 reps have to have 3 second negative (Hell on Earth).
Personal experience that means shit: I tried it and the mini rests are so important if I don't want to be deloading every 2 months or cheat my reps with quicker excentrics.
If you want the facts to be uncovered I guess you can finance this hyperspecific study where you take 40-60 intermediate to advanced gymgoers and you make them go through 4 months of leg pressing. 2 months of locking out then deload then 2 months of constant tension for half the group and the other will do the opposite and see what comes out of it. Send me a link when it's done thanks :)
Totally agree with this comment. I have been following Eugene for a while, he uploads good content, little tips that I have been applying in my routines with good results. But this does not seem to be the case.
That rest at the top of the rep is exactly the point, like imagine if you weren't able to take a breather at the top of a squat, and instead you'd have to stop just shy of full extension and immediately go into another rep. You'd be completely out of breath and not be able to really push the muscle to the max.
Happy to see you throwing Mike's humor back at him at the end there, haha
Not really the lockout but when people are using momentum to lift weights that are to heavy and they bounce at the top of the sled while using their hands to push behind the knee is how I’ve seen people hyper extend. I’ve never seen the leg breaks in 30 years of lifting. Do what feels best for your body.
They’re not controlling the lock out and they’re shifting the forces into different planes so yea in that case focus on technique
Man, i love Dr Mike! Glad Master Eugene met him!
He's awesome!
For me (the way they lock out) seems aggressive. I don’t really feel safe doing locking out which is one of my principles on how I make gym decisions. If I’m a bitch and might be leaving gains on the table then I am fine with that.
My thought is this, if you leg press RAW and go super Heavy for 3-6 reps, No pause, no control (slow) on the way down, sure Lock out seems dangerous bcuz the weight is too heavy. However, if you leg pressing with the weight that you can control (SLOW) and higher reps 8-20 reps, the load is not that heavy to the point which it could hurt you.
@@samreach2679 You're right people just have huge ego and put 30 plates on and don't do slow reps. Huge ego machine the manufacturers should make less plate holders on it lol.
@@samreach2679 the problem is your joints aren't proportionally as strong as your muscles. There's no way to measure how much your joints can handle. I'd love to lock out if there was some way for me to know the definitive limit of my joints but I don't so I'd rather not.
@@343JustMe you are correct. But like I said, if you can control the weight UP AND DOWN, all the way to the bottom, and you can perform 8-15 reps, that mean your joint is strong enough to be locked out. But lock out I dont mean excessively LOCK OUT. What i mean is Fully extended. :) how do you know if your joint is strong enough? WELL, Start training your joint then 😂 Start with lighter weight and progress from there :) Before I watched mike video, I was be able to do 6-7 plates (perside) for 10+ reps no control no lock out no depth. Then I started his way of leg pressing, it fucked me up. Buz I was struggling to do 3 plt and 25 for 10 reps! :) Now I can do it with 5 plts and 25 for at least 14 reps slow, and 1 sec pause at the bottom. So My joint is well trained :)
@@samreach2679 training your joints doesn't give you a definitive number. Your muscles are gonna struggle close to their peak strength meanwhile your joints can keep going far above what is healthy long term for them. You could be doing too much weight for your joints for years and wouldn't realize cause it's just fine for your muscles. It only gets bad once it's too late and you're an old man with poor joints
After watching this video I am still not going to lock my legs out. If I ever happen to do like press ever again. Because fuck that 😅🤢
This sounds reasonable, but I have bit hypermobile knees and I'm still not gonna lock them anyway :D
Same here.
Ok go for that nothing wrong as Dr. Mike said you’re not missing out on much :)
i like the burn in quads when not locking :-D i also dont like the feeling when locking out bcs my legs can go little too much over the straight line …. Leg press is awesome! Thank you for these collab!
Thank you! 🙏
Yeah, yours and like half of the people in the world, thats why its fucking dangerous, Idk what this guy is going about its not, the reason most people dont fucking break their knees is most people dont do enough weight on leg press
@@julianpermuy8191 source of counterargument - my feelings :)
@@julianpermuy8191 So why aren’t these guys pressing 8-10 plates per side not breaking their legs? it’s because they can control it and don’t have a condition where their knees are hypermobile
Great video man. I've locked out and had people stop across the gym to tell me how wrong I am 🤣. They mean well but yeah it can get annoying
Direct them right here 😂🙋🏻♂️
This is generally bad advice..If you're just working out in the gym and that's the only physical activity you do, go right ahead.. But acl, meniscus prone to getting injured during contact sports by doing this form frequently.. Just workout reasonably.. There's really no need to lock out..
Yeah but they are right man, you know that because a massive bald guy tells you they are not, it doesnt actually means they are not, just study physics and anatomy and youll understand why, or just keep locking out and take some longevity from your knees, or break them
@@julianpermuy8191 the massive bald guy has a whole video discussing locking out in more nuance/detail, you should check it out. Also helps that he has a PHD in sports science, so he's at least not completely basing his opinions off pure speculation ya feel.
@@Elijah._.7 he still doesnt understand physics correctly tho, look at the comments of this video, you'll find a guy explaining perfectly the physics on this matter
i trust this dude but im not locking my knees. im scared when i use the leg press machine, i rather rest standing up than staying with my leg in front under the plates. i guess im too scared by watching all these accidents.
You can tell this was shot on a leg day by the panting after every word ahahah
🤣 I was trying to buy more time before my next set
By the same logic, it's worth not doing because there are an increased number of people with hypermobility who do not know it and will put themselves into hyper extension. If you are the 1% trying to get every ounce of gains, sure. Most people don't need that trade off and a life with damaged knee isn't worth it. Talking from experience.
You can argue either way really. Context is everything!
@@coacheugeneteo yeah, but for MOST people, they shouldnt lock out
Makes a decent argument. Still won't be locking out, though.
Fair enough 🤣🤣
that video thumbnail is true greatness
😂
“Implicit Interpolation” I just can’t gloss of the phrase.
1:50 - It also just LOOKS so much worse when the person has giant quads lol.
when im winded after doing some hard leg shit like squats, leg press or rdl's - i cant even string together a thought to even begin a coherent sentence. Mike can hold a conversation. He must be very smart. Not even joking.
My right knee can slightly hyperextend -- I'm definitely not interested in locking it out; just standing and flexing in place with it locked out is painful.
I do go to straight with each rep.
Then there you go people with hyper joints like Dr. Mike said may find uncomfort
That's exactly my issue. Flexing in general causes the knee pop and occasional pain. How's it progressing now, and the overall condition now with the exercises you're still doing that it's been an year this comment was made? I'd like to know, thanks.
IDK Eugene, I shit myself on a heavy leg press once...
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
OMFG FINALLLY THANKYOU EUGENE, IM SO Annoyed at people pointing this out on me FFS
*Is knees locking good or bad?*
For an advanced lifter who knows their body, knows their joints, and understands the weight range they can do, and they lock controlled, it's fine. I have blown both knees, and while the lockout like that was WAS fine, not the joint just hurts and im off for a while afterwards, so not good FOR ME. I have seen first hand a knee injury from a novice slamming the knees back, not good, also when a novice does this the movement is clearly not controlled, that is a risk, and not a great habit. Otherwise I agree with Dr Mike, just with my damage i wont do it myself.
2:33 eugineeee 😭 very witty
I’m not a homosexual but I’m gay for Dr. Mike
I’m sure the rest of us agree here
"incredibly rare hyper laxity of the joints"
Hyperlaxity of the joints is not *that* rare. It's harder to hyper extended on a squat versus a leg press as the posterior chain is not contacting as much, but it can happen. Also more common in teens and women.
I also think there's a failure of engagement in the posterior chain when those people locked out. If you're under load, it shouldn't hyperextend.
I have issue if hyperlinks hyper mobile joints, and locking out gives me discomfort on certain exercises. However *never* squats or deadlift.
There’s people who hurt more from locking out of squats than on leg presses, as Dr. Mike said context is everything you don’t have to lock out but your joints were originally designed to lock out. My boy Mike has a PHD, participated in multiple studies, is a professor in this stuff, I’m sure he knows what he’s talking about. In fact if you look at powerlifters, weight lifters, even gymnast who go into extreme ranges of lockouts all have incredibly healthy joints so locking out isn’t bad but it could be. Just do what feels for you Dr. Mike also said if you don’t lock out your not missing out on much anyway
Well a lot of women have super flexible knees, so its really dangerous for them, its just dude, why would you lock even if the probability is 0,01%, you dont gain anything by locking, the muscle contracts more but it also rests more, its just not smart to lock if the weight is directly over and on your legs, joints are fragile, you can lock on a different type of leg press, on squats, just dont be stupid
You’re joints were designed to lock out. If you don’t like it or it feels off then don’t do it simple as that
@@juansamudio1171 Yeah, but they arent designed to lock out pressing weight almost vertical
@@julianpermuy8191 Lol What? For most people lock out can be most dangerous when you come down in a fully locked joint with no movement to absorb the shock. When the joint locks it creates the screw home mechanism and when joints are locked out it’s when they are most stable to support load. Keep in mind if you don’t lock out it can also put a lot of stress on the surrounding tissue it’s how some people get tendonitis so neither way is the best way
I was doing 550lbs on the leg press machine earlier at Planet Fitness. This one guy came up talking about your stupid your locking your leg your gonna get hurt. He than pulled up a video on RUclips of a woman locking her legs and the weights fell back on her. I was like I've done it many times and never had the weights fall back on me or my legs give out. I added 90lbs on tops of the 550lbs was locking my legs again still no problem. I kept trying to tell him to show me how to do it and he's like nah I'm good. I'm thinking he couldn't handle the weight. Than he's like you know how to do a squat right and I was like yeah but I don't do it much. He's like than do it and my hills came off the ground a little. He's like you need to work on that and I took the advise but if someone is comfortable doing it their way I see no point and making it a big deal.
Idk man that wigs me out!
When you lock out your knees, doesn't it mean all the tension is shifted from your muscle to your joint or tendons at your knees? I think most people try to weight the risk and reward of an exercise before doing it at the gym. I might have missed it but what's the "reward" of locking out your knees? I don't think you need to lock out your knees completely if you just want to rest a bit at the top. When Charly was doing the leg press, he just lock it out really fast and come back down again, making it look like a snapping motion.
I think it's mostly just about getting the full range of motion where your legs are fully extended
@@ahmedelnagar284 we dont promote locking out elbow or benching with a flat back, why are we locking our knees when using leg press?
@@johndoe-to1gm what? proper technique is to lock your elbow out in a press movement? just because YOU believe it isn't doesn't make it true. You lock your joint out because its literally BUILT to do that. If you're handling loads that are appropriate for your strength level, locking out is a non-issue.
No, locking out doesn't mean that all the tension is shifted. The reward of locking out on an exercise is training the muscles and tendons through their full range of motion.
Speak for yourself in terms of what is or isn't promoted. I learned to lock out on bench press, so that's what I'm going to do.
@@IamWonderBread do you realize the exercise in this video is leg "press"?
that's cool and all, but I still won't ever lock out my beautiful knees on the leg press
Im a lil bitch D: noooo
Literally my two favorite and trusted sources for training knowledge joining up here. F*ckin awesome. Keep it up!!!
Thank you! 🙏
People referring to "seeing a tons of videos (3)" regarding leg press lockout incidents and making inductions, is classic availability bias, which is a mental shortcut that relies on immediate examples that come to the person's mind when they are evaluating a certain phenomenon. Such a ubiquitous Cognitive bias also demonstrates our proclivity to induce from the particular and our unwillingness to deduct from the general.
"And concomitantly don't know what you're doing" applies to a lot of stuff 🤣
the guy does not know the difference between extrapolation and interpolation. Leg press lock out is stupid and has almost zero benefit. If you flex the calf and lift the heel a quarter inch at the end, you get additional benefits and don't endanger the knees. The lock out over extension motion is not used in any natural motion of humans as best i can tell. Not jumping walking running, nothing.
Who's lifting their heels off and doing a calf raise at the end of a fucking leg press rep? Are you fucking insane? Lmao
you literally lock out your knees when walking
@@filippo1420 I don't walk with 150kg in my back
@@23matip and so?
@@23matip Do you squat it? Do you walk out of the squat rack without locked out knees at some point in the movement?
i remember i locked out on several workouts a couple of months ago, it hurt like a bitch for almost a month on my left knee. don't be stupid guys a bad knee injury can fuck up ur life
This is bad form. They are praising it. It's stupid. NEVER lock out, keep tension.
@@Dr.WhetFarts yeah locking out will just do you harm, there isn't any real benefit to it
Do you lock out your backsquat? Do you lock out your deadlift?
What about your right knee? You have to keep in mind these injuries are multi factorial just because you feel a painful sensation on one thing doesn’t always mean it’s the root cause of it many other factors can apply
@@juansamudio1171 the pain started when i started locking out and it wasn't aggressive, after 4 or 5 workout sessions i started feeling immense pain on my left knee. after i stopped locking out the pain gradually started getting less until it finally stopped. never locked out since then. other people i now from my gym had some what of the same experience
or just Squat instead
just watching that guy lockout his knees makes me cringe
that 'guy' is Dr Mike Israetel. Plus your joints are designed to lock out, it's fine to lock out, what's NOT fine is not control the lockout.
Then you should absolutely not watch the end of the video 😂
@@darrellbruh1335 I mean you are not wrong, its more the impending potential break I fear seeing them lock and that loss of control you reference.
Exactly why leg extensions are great at the top of the movement.
I think that the machines are at fault too. Is our technology not enough to prevent knee locking?
Yeah... I'm gonna not take these guy's advice. Not even with a grain a salt. I can't wait until he effs up his knees and give some bs excuse of why it happened.
or just not lock out and keep constant tension on the quads, would prob be a wash from "full ROM" benefits
Mike's a legend
so counter intuitive, but heck, I don't know shit so won't comment on it except to say that having had a really bad knee injury in the past, this gives me the heebie-jeebies 😅
Perfect video. I was doing these today and couldn't lock out bc of disks in my back, but was wondering if I was sucking.
I still hate the leg press. I'll use any other leg machine in the gym. It just doesn't feel good.
STOP TEASING US EUGENE!!
🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@coacheugeneteo Where is the leg training video😭😭😭😭😭
@@skair5425 releases Monday to their channel
I don't know man.. That kinda freaks me out..
Eugene said it's a social mediar effect 😅
when is this full leg day video coming?
Monday to their channel! Make sure you subscribe to it 🙏
@@coacheugeneteo 😍😍💪🏼
He's wrong when he says "some people get injured but there are million people who workout so it's not that dangerous".
Yeah, but how many lock their legs ? Not millions. So the purpose to represent the injury as a very small proportion is wrong.
Would like to know : how many people who lock their legs had an injury because of it?
Eugene, I still won't lock my Legs.
I mean, in a risk and reward perspective, I still think it has almost no benefit for a very bad risk of being on youtube fail videos (and yes, the pain of the broken Leg).
And I still thinks it's a bad idea, because beginners don't know very well their intensity. And advanced people are pushing so much weight, they can't really feel if they are ok or not.
Ok last part is not a good explanation since my english is not perfect.
Not me lol leg lock gang people aren't made of paper
@@mitch5944 facts I’m all lock out
@@mitch5944 ok lock your Legs during squat then...
@@pojoh2585 almost everyone locks their legs out during squats and are totally fine in almost all cases! - Dr. Mike
Body is not designed to lock out.
I don't know what's pushing when I do the Leg Press but it's not my legs. Doesn't matter how deep I go it's my CNS pushing. Heavy or light doesn't matter. When I do partials and quick reps I can feel the burn though. Don't know if it means I have to cut the range of motion or not. Never felt anything when going deep anyway.
Just do hack squats and it'll hit the spot..
@@limitlessmaster659 Don't have that machine in my gym. I tried goblet squat and I can feel em a little
Do you get any cramps in a heavy leg day?
You know, this dude is saying exactly the same that he was criticizing. You can't really say this is no harmful to your legs if you don't have an experiment or scientific evidence, everything else is just anecdotal and biased data.
Even if this isn't really harmful, is it worth it? I'm not really sure how much more you actually gain
Everything is neutral and you need to make an argument for why they are good or bad. By saying locking out is fine he's saying it's neutral, he's not saying you should lockout because you get 5% more gains.
Where's your data that it is harmful though?
Probably can't get a full perspective on this on eugene's channel though but he already said that (I'm paraphrasing here) the benefit of those mini rests to push yourself more. You can get couple more reps that a constant tension doesn't offer and he, personally through the years of coaching, finds the Stimulus to Fatigue Ratio to be better the way he does it than in other ways.
@@ridhabenammar715 "Where's your data that it is harmful though?" I never claimed it is harmful.
Glad that you and Mike agree that there's no scientific data to say it's harmful. So by default it's not harmful.
(think of it like saying cigarettes are harmful, until you get the research done, cigarettes are just "fine" not that they cure somethings like in the old ads because that would also need research to prove it but that they are just "fine")
@@ridhabenammar715 dude, that's not how science work. If you are going to make a claim you have to back it up, it doesn't matter if the claim is "this is good" or "this is bad", if it doesn't have evidence then it's just an opinion and the absence or lack of evidence it doesn't make it correct
@@23matip But the same argument goes for locking out - there's no credible evidence that it's harmful.
He talks really fast all the time. So when you lock out the knees are you always hyperextending them? Or can you lock out without hyperextending ?
Some people have super mobile joints and for those it may not be the best thing, but for people who don’t have that phenomenon it’s more than ok just don’t force the lock out and rather control it :)
As the name infers, "hyperextending" means taking the joint further than it's meant to/safe to do. Locking out is not as hyperextending.
@@juansamudio1171 me personally I have hypermobile joints been locking out on all exercises very safely in the past 3 years of training no issues at all I progressively overload safely and don’t snap into the lock out :) I personally want my joints to me strong enough for when I’m older and when I’m outside of the gym and somehow get forced into the lock out position then I won’t be at a higher risk of injury
@@Cameron-9572 that’s amazing see tell it to the people who are just scared cause of the videos
100 kph is 62 mph. If you are worried about going 62 miles per hour on the freeway, then you shouldn't be driving nor working out with weights.
Charlie’s lockout freaks me out 😅 I always lockout, but his shits go concave
The fact that Eugene isn’t locking out in this video tells you all you need to know.
That I'm a little bitch 😫😫🤣🤣
@@coacheugeneteo we're all that little bitch! But at least we'll still have our knees in 10 years time.
Nice collab here ! Thank you guys !
Thank you! 🙏
I still don't want to do leg press like that. I don't think the benefits are worth the risks
Still no
Yeh eff that. I always question that form. Not for me
There's locking out and then there's slamming your legs out straight. I don't mind locking out for a rest if you want to pump out an extra rep or two but other than that I hold better tension in my quads if I don't lock out.
Eugene, is Dr. Mike the perfect hypertrophy machine? I just watched the last video RP uploaded. Incredible stuff
I can get more reps with lockout but reps vs constant tension, which is better?
Up to you! There's a good case for either one so i base it on preference
@@coacheugeneteo Thanks uncle Eugene!
Reps, sets, etc are all convenient indicators and they matter but what is going to be the great unifier is intensity and chasing the stimulus for growth
My buddy Eric locked his knees out this one time on the legpress and now he has 8 tumors around his knee joint because of it. Stop spreading misinformation! #stopthelock
Dr. Mike is a professor in this stuff he knows what he’s talking about it. Keep in mind like he stated for the majority of people it’s not a problem but everyone’s different some people may not see a benefit from it but other will. You’re joints were designed to lock out and your body is very resilient. The best powerlifters, weight lifters, even gymnast who do extreme lock outs all have incredibly healthy joints and ligaments. It’s not misinformation it’s just that people don’t learn to think for themselves and try to think this is a one all be all answer it’s not, context is everything. Maybe your friends tumors wasn’t just from locking out those things are multi factorial. It could be a combination of many thing or the weight he was lifting was too much for him or maybe his body was just different and didn’t respond well and that’s fine but that doesn’t mean locking out is bad. Context is everything and that was Eugene and Mike and every good coach says all the time because everyone is different
@@juansamudio1171 bro, I know. you don’t get 8 tumors from locking out, it was a joke
@@rafaelmorren9412 thank gosh cause I was questioning what he was doing🤣
Yeah IDK. I think it is overblown but at the same time I dont see why not slow and controlled into the end and then instantly go down instead of resting. I dont think its generally a good idea to let heavy weight just rest on the joints. Thats just through experience of my elbow or knees feeling prone to injury (and actually getting strains and tightening up) if I play basketball or something in the following days. By prone to injury the joint feels wide open and not stable, then a minor tweek like trying to accelerate or deaccelerate then causes the area to tighten.
Basically I just dont see the benefit for hypertrophy of letting weight rest. Work the muscle, not the joint. And if you want to work the joint I'd do so intentionally, slowly, and with measure of strength or go on to low intensity dynamic work like jump rope and high intensity dynamic work like landing.
Your body is incredibly resilient. Your joints were designed to lock out and training your joints is actually an important thing people undermine you want to teach the joint to lock out physical therapist do this all the time with clients with meniscus injuries, etc… constant tension isn’t the only thing that builds muscle it’s already been proven hard with strong evidence that’s there’s many more factors that come into play. You look at the strongest powerlifters, weight lifters they all lock out. And gymnast go into extreme lock outs but their mobility joints and ligaments are all extremely healthy. If anything doing those high impact dynamic movements are harder in the joints and the way you deal with that is try to build strength and muscle to stabilize the joints because doing low intensity will only train them so far to an extent it won’t cause a sufficient stimulus for change. You may not see the benefit of locking out for hypertrophy but to people like Dr. Mike who btw is a professor on this stuff he’s so advance it gets much harder to build muscle and he needs to try to get to a stimulus threshold to produce growth. The load he’s using here is controllable for him for you it might be different and most likely less
@@juansamudio1171 I dont think you understood my comment at all. I didnt recommend constant tension. I didnt say not to lock out or train those ranges. Its to lock out with MORE control, just because he claims he is under control doesnt mean he cant have more control and slow it down.
You also ignored my point of how it caused injury and said the body was resilient - like did you even read what I said. Like okay lets ignore what my body has constantly said to me and do some commenter's interpretation of what an expert says. Just because its rare to hyperextend and injure, its not rare for adaptions in the weight room to impact in sport injury risks - this type of movement stress end range tendon which can open you up to tweaks - I think we should train this but more deliberately. Slamming into endrange and letting it rest isnt intended for improving his joint health or direct hypertrophy, its so he can get more clean reps.
Dynamic movements can be scaled down. Regardless the point is different stimulus to do different things. If you are an athlete, this is how to make your body resilient when playing. Just like body training you scale it slowly and intentionally. This is what elite sport trainers for professional teams do. If you think jumping is dangerous and locking out explosively is great joint training, I doubt you do much sport. Also gymnasist primarily do holds which is isometric joint training and super controlled.
@@aaronlatif52 I did gymnastics and was on a league for track team in university but you’re right I don’t do anything sports. I never informed anything but I’m saying to be more open minded. Just because the lock out is a little quicker doenst mean he’s losing control and keep in mind Dr. Mike with a lot of his clients always says “slow on the lockout” because he knows this but for him who has great numeral control and has been doing this for years has more control and better understanding of his body than the average body so if he feels good doing that “quick” lock out I don’t see that being a problem. Every movement is going to have risk. If it was hurting Dr. Mikes joints he wouldn’t do it, it’s that simple. There’s no right answer here because it all depends on context and different scenarios. Some people prefer locking out some don’t and some even get more stress on surrounding tissue when they don’t lock out and that’s how some people can get tendonitis which is why they prefer to lock out. I recommend you watch Dr. Mikes video on lock out where he’s more nuanced but from his lens he noticed that not many people suffer from locking out but if you do then don’t do it. People these days can’t think for themselves and always try to get a comment verified by some of the experts they trust when in reality they should just be taking everything with a grain of salt and start to think how they can apply this to their own regime and that’s what makes them better instead of always trying to find a straight forward answer that’s missing a lot of context. I blame tik tok for a lot of this tbh the fitness industry is a bit of a mess rn but luckily it has amazing and intelligent people like Dr. Mike
@@juansamudio1171 "I never informed anything but I’m saying to be more open minded"
You presented everything as fact and used appeals to authority but okay bud. Im not open minded enough because "I dont think its generally a good idea" to do something and have personal experience in the matter that is contrary to Mike's extreme injury argument. I have significant practice and have trained others doing similar techniques in the video and well over the long run I don't see the benefit with Dr Mike on this. If I wanted more volume I could add sets, higher reps I could lower the weight, and higher intensity could do a drop set. I dont see why I would slam past extension and hold a weight to rest, putting stress on the joints without being deliberate.
And I regularly watch Dr Mike, listened to the podcast he was on with Mark Bell, and have seen the video at least twice that you mention. I just disagree. I have considered Im wrong and attempted doing things his way and got bad results. Why should I continuously remain open minded through years of experience and with other peoples experience, just because an expert says so and says extreme injury is rare? I am constantly experimenting in my own training and seeing what happens. Id rather listen to my body and look at the results.
@@aaronlatif52 And that’s fine for you it doesn’t work and it’s totally fine, I love Dr. Mike but not even I take everything he says 100% I mean I love him because he always uses words like “maybe, probably, could” because he knows for somebody it may not work well there’s nothing really worth debating about. If you want to lock out go for it if not then don’t do it lol your body is your own feed back so I completely respect what you do :) and agreed working out as so much more things to do than just body building and looking huge
Those Widowmaker resting at the top locked out sets have their place, but it's certainly not something you'd want to do every time. Those sorts of sets are played off emotions. I'd rather be nice and calm during a set then be all amped up basically throwing your whole body into it. No thanks. I see these guys in the gym trying to play their favorite song to get amped up for a set. In my opinion that's the last thing you should do you should calm yourself down as you get ready for a set put all your energy and blood into the muscle you're working. Keep the amped up sets for power lifters who do 1-3 reps.
That’s because those people don’t control the lock out unlike these experts who know and don’t ego lift
It’s a no from me. I won’t be locking out that’s for sure.
I’ll have to try this with like one or two plates and see how it goes 😅
At this point i don't know why modern machines (most) don't include a bar/support whose height you can set to have somewhere your knees can lay before they reach locking point. Would save many legs
In the 90s, people would lock out their knees all the time on the leg press machine. To the point that big leg press manufacturers/companies started adding very visible warnings on their machines to the effect that locking out knees would result in severe injury. But now, because of tiktok, everyone knows that you shouldn't lock out your knees like that. So, those same companies/manufacturers had the warnings removed from their machines. In a way, those early victims that were caught on camera blowing out their knees on the leg press machine paved the way to a whole new era of slicker looking leg press machines, free of ominous warnings and horrifying pictures of people blowing out their knees in agony. Gotta love progress!
Awesome collaboration
Thank you! 🙏
cool.
I still wont locked out tho.
0:07 Welcome to snap city!
You don't lock your knees out when your stand or walk so why do it when squatting or pressing?
"You don't lock your knees out when your stand or walk"
Yes, you do...
@@Gn3rd Stand in a neutral position and tell me you can't drive your knees back at all. I doubt you stand with your legs fully locked out
@@Brometheus420 As someone who has worked with a few PTs to recover from an ACL injury Ive been told that most people do actually lock their knees when they stand, turns out I'd been doing it my whole life and just never notice until I couldn't do it anymore. A lot of people in this position will still also be able to push their knees back even further by going into hyperextension.
I just avoid that machine...
Leg day!! 😬😖😫
This 1 way to fuck up your knees.
If you're using more weight on the leg press, or hack squat, or other leg exercises than your muscles can actually handle, then locking out your knees can certainly be dangerous.
Even if you think you can actually lift the weight and are able to bang out the reps, you might be going too heavy.
It's because it's much harder to cheat and still technically be able to achieve and perform 'reps' with these exercises as opposed to hack squats and leg presses.
An example of this would be those that have to use their hands to push off their knees to lift off at the beginning of a set.
If your legs aren't physically capable of pressing the weight up from that position, then the weight is likely too heavy for you to be using.
And if you tried to lock out your knees on a leg press with that amount of weight (even if accidentally), you might hurt yourself.
But remember, it's important to remember that anything done incorrectly can be dangerous.
Driving a car can be extremely dangerous if done incorrectly, but we all do it everyday!
Cutting up a vegetable can be dangerous if we don't do it correctly, yet we all do it at times!
Bench pressing can be dangerous if done incorrectly.
The point is, when we're doing things that could be inherently dangerous, we need to make sure we're fully focused on what we're doing and aren't distracted or putting ourselves in unnecessary danger.
Loading up the leg press with too much weight is like putting a learner driver who's just started to get the hang of driving into a modified sports car with 700 horsepower.
Even though the learner could still technically drive the car (by driving very slowly), any small slip up and pressing the accelerator too hard could lead to big accidents.
The same goes for the leg exercises we're discussing today.
Using too much weight on the leg press can certainly lead to injuries if you lock your knees out.
However, if you're sensible with the weight you use, and you've consistently been training with a full range of motion and locking out your knees all this time, working your way up to heavier weights, then you will be fine to lock out your knees.
@@Cameron-9572 this is incorrect, muscle might be able to handle it but your joints and ligaments won't if your locking out. You can be lifting 1kg or 100kg doesn't matter repetitiveness can damage you.
@@rajindernijjer hmm interesting. I never thought that the principle of Wolfs law and Adaptation doesn’t exist.
@@Cameron-9572 driving and cutting vegetables is not dangerous maybe if your retarded then it is. Bench press is dangerous all the time regardless of done correctly. I went from 125 to litre bike it wasn't dangerous was stupidity but I got used to it. It's all about experience. You can't hurt yourself using to much weight if your form is good. If your form is bad then you can.
@@rajindernijjer So why do powerlifters have really thick and strong tendons? They train with full range of motion ( including the lock out )
Extrapolate
Hell naaah. Idgaf, i dont even leg press
Locking out distributes all weight to a part of your part that you are not targeting. Minimize the risk and maximize the reward. Time under tension! Take breaks in between sets not during reps. By definition you are lifting too much by taking massive breathing breaks in between reps.
Leg press is prob the worst leg exercise it puts so much pressure etc on l5 S1. Tore mine. Crawled out of that thing shaped like the letter l for weeks. Even if you do it right your limb lengths/ leverages make it a horrible choice.
Source: I made it the fuck up
@@nikolaswirz4022 Dr. Stuart McGill advises AGAINST doing leg presses though.
Jesus let the doc rest man
2:26 how can go so deep without your back coming off the pad?
squat shoes and ankle mobility
watch Dr Mikes leg press video, he goes over it.
When it comes to joints, any unecessary risk is just never, ever worth it. Ever. If you wanna lock your knees, go do leg extensions, where the weight is still being held up by your quads instead of just putting insane pressure through the joint for no reason. This dude is welcome to do it, I don't care what he wants to do with his body, but this is bad advice for like 99% of lifters to follow, imo. If it truly cost you leg gains (I really don't think it does), I'll take smaller legs with functioning knees any day thanks.
Hmmmm. But locking out will probably strengthen your knees and prevent accidental injury later in life. And when we lock out in the gym, it can be in a super safe and controlled manner. If we're not willing to take risks to strengthen our bodies, we may not even lift weights at all because muscle tears are way more common than knee locking injuries! As for the joint pressure, is it really "insane?" What about it is insane? Is it just high? Because if it's high, then just walking out a squat creates might higher forces, never mind landing from a jump, which creates even higher forces still! Let me know what you think. - Dr. Mike
@@RenaissancePeriodizationgreat points. I remember when I was doing a vertical jump program for basketball made my Chris Barnard of overtime athletes(not sure if you know him) I was young and anxious about squatting stunting my growth but then got hit with the knowledge that jumping and aggressive plyos are actually a lot more forceful and hard on the joints.
I respect their opinions and they've been doing it for year without an issue so good on them, I just think the angle your leg is at on the leg press combined with the heavy load that doing a lockout puts your knee in a very compromised position where for rhe average person the risk to reward doesn't add up
😮 is sumo cheating?
Thanks!!!! I hate people on social media Who says locking out is bad
I've seen a high school kid trying to press too much weight lock his legs out; and then got to see the look of pain in his eyes when his knees buckled under the weight. He locked the machine out, but you could tell locking his knees out hurt like hell.
Ego lifting
He’s absolutely correct! Most of those viral snap city videos are of people doing more weight than they can handle.
Yea but why not just not lock out for better time under tension
It doesn't make time under tension any better or increase it significantly. This is a really misunderstood topic - but I'll do a follow up educational video on TUT specifically! 🙏
I never lock out at the top, but I also don't go as deep at the bottom (as I saw in Eugene's reps). I generally stop when my thighs are a hair past perpendicular to the floor.
The aspect I struggle with more is the question of foot placement. The leg press machine at my local gym doesn't have the foot pad with an upper and lower angle, it's totally flat. What I've been doing is lining up my heels to the poles the plates are racked on. I find that works well for feeling quad activation but also not having knee pain (where my shin meets my knee).
I’d seriously recommend trying to go as deep as possible (but start with about half the normal weight!) it’s led me to unreal quad stimulation and much less torque on the knee
I get you're filming on scene, but the science behind this does not add up at all.
Dr. Mike has a PHD in exercise physiology, Is a professor in a NY university, participated in multiple scientific studies, his father was a mathematics professor, he has multiple years of experience, at least take his advice with a grain of salt because he knows
There are not a ton of videos of people getting hurt, because most people dont lock out and know not to. The logic doesnt make sense comparing it to driving cars
Sure it does, since he's commenting on the weird logic of being afraid of something that's statistically rare(harming your knees on leg press) versus not being afraid of something that's statistically common(car accidents).
@@Gn3rd yes but it is statistically rare because probably over 90% of people dont lock out and on the other hand most adults drive. It just isn't comparable
@@Gn3rd To give an example: lets say there are 100 people, 10 lockout and 90 drive. If 3 out of the people who lockout gets their knees hurt that is 3/10=30%, if 3 of the drivers get into an accident that is 3/90=0.0333%.
@@ByteNinja-YT Please don't make up statistics to suit your point. You have no basis for that 90% figure.
@@Gn3rd its an assumption, have you ever seen people lock out their knees in the gym? I have like 3 times in 10+ years