Hello you savages. Get my free Reading List of 100 life-changing books here - chriswillx.com/books/ Here's the timestamps: 00:00 Why Do Humans Need Meaning? 11:04 Do People Feel Like Their Lives Are Actually Real? 16:53 Differences Between Purpose & Meaning 24:02 Is the Pursuit of Meaning a Selfish One? 30:00 What is Causing Society’s Modern Lack of Meaning? 33:01 Could Having More Kids Solve the Meaning Crisis? 40:01 Does Religion Have to Be True For it to Be Useful? 47:35 Seeing Meaning as a Thinking Problem 53:21 The Principle of Unteachable Lessons 1:02:56 Why Would You Know What’s Best For Yourself? 1:09:35 Strategies to Be More Mindful in Daily Life 1:16:43 What‘s Next for John? 1:22:59 Where to Find John
For me you have touched upon something profound with the "unteachable lessons or unteachable truth"! Universal principles and ethics like gratitude, trust, sincerity, harmony, respect, courage, self-discipline, responsibility, service, integrity, humility, openness, interconnectedness, ethical awareness, unconditional love, selfless service, and stewardship cannot actually be taught. They must be lived! Only by embodiment can they be Known in the sense that Aristotle meant when he said "He who best Knows the chair is the carpenter". I also noticed that if you invert John Vervaeke's meaning in life 4 aspects outwards, to manifest them outwardly and give of them to others, so that you live in a way where you embody them and bring that "meaning in life" in a felt sense to all who you encounter and deepen your connection with. That is what we would call "unconditional Love"
Only around 12 mins in but I'm incredibly grateful for this episode. The idea of life feeling viscerally real is something I've thought about for a long time. I'm glad it's being addressed.
My meaning was doing everything I could to make my kids’ lives better and set them up for success in the future. I’ve had several personal setbacks, but I’d like to think I’ve succeeded with my kids.
I've become a fan of John watching him in Jordan's Gosple series because he brings an outside perspective but truly, truly wants to understand what the others actually believe. There is not an ounce of disrespect or gotcha. He's so open and curious and I admire that and respect his approach. He brings really great insights. Looking forward to hearing him on this episode!
I very much appreciated John's vulnerability when he talked about how he wanted to 'change how he entered into relationships' and 'allowing himself to feel attracted in ways he hadn't been before.' That bit was particularly insightful, thank you
Really appreciate John's vulnerability in sharing his story about consciously going against his evolutionary impulses and instead playing a longer, transformative game. I'd imagine it being a very inspiring message for most men
Thank you so much. I've been trying to express (badly it seems) the notion that Vervaeke called fellowship. These are the deeper connections missing for so many, but that I realized I was seeking in my own meaning crisis. It is also exactly what I've found in church, since I started going a few years ago.
John’s comment about not dating his type is interesting and reminded me as to why online dating is tenuous at best…because more often than not people that we may not find attractive at first become very attractive to us once we get to know them and you don’t get that opportunity with online dating… because more often we are prone to see appearance first and character doesn’t often get revealed in such a shallow forum….just an aside…great conversation as usual..
The only meaning of life I have found is in helping those who are suffering, if they are willing to help themselves. When you help, never ask for thanks of any kind. The one universal emotion humans experience is suffering. As you are limited to the number of people you can help, so avoid individuals who are never willing to help themselves. By not asking for thanks, you avoid the dopamine trap. However, at some point, you will experience a sense of " emotional balance" or a sense of belonging in the universe. BEST WISHES
John Vervaeke is one of the most interesting persons to listen to in my opinion, I'm always captivated by the ways that he weaves philosophy, psychology and sociology together in a complex but still graspable manner while being especially mindful of the scientific literature. As someone who's uneducated and who's first language isn't English, I find it sometimes challenging to follow his train of thought because I'm not used to such deep thinking and also need to pause constantly to Google concepts and new words but it's always worth it because there is just so much to take away from his lectures and interviews which is why I'm extremely excited to learn that he's finally started to write books so that I can take in what he has to offer at my own rhythm. Anyway, great conversation, I'll be ordering the book right away and I'm very excited to see what's next for him, thanks for having him on, Chris!
I found the most meaning in life when I was thru hiking. Food and water were important, but nothing was more important than seeing a friend (or even a stranger). A hot shower or an outhouse were delightful luxuries. Wish I could live my whole life like that.
Sex and family are the meaning of life. Suffering is worth it as long as there is someone to sacrifice yourself for. Morality is an abstraction that creates a familial relationship between strangers. "Hell is other people" People don't like to live in a materialistic society even if they themselves are materialistic.Technocapitalism is the Thing that eats people's souls and creates monsters...
ps: I've only recently discovered him, I think on Nate Hagen's channel ("The Great Simplificiation"), or in a longer session with Daniel Schmachtenberger and Ian McGilchrist. All of them are very recommendable.
Great job Chris in asking for examples and clarification of such me of these concepts. I ❤ Vervake but sometimes struggle with the massive distance between his wisdom and mine.
This topic is so important and there’s so much to talk about. For example: the importance of Needs. Maslow’s expanded 8 not the original 5! Thanks for the video!
The bit about relationships was particularly observant, about how finding attraction through a different route, can then lead you to realise someone was physically your type after all. You just used the wrong lens initially.
Started out slow for me but this episode has been awesome. I'm really going through it right now and have felt completely lost for the last couple months. This has been very helpful, thank you.
If you have lived long enough then you will know that human patience, attention span, and even great vigor can become exhausted by endless talking and rambling conversations. But for some of us, enough living would have taught us that plain truth is always paired with simple answers. If you are keen to notice, more often than not our questions can start to resemble a wreckage rather than a pristine creation. Not to be discouraged because, just like a wreckage, in the hands of someone with the wright knowledge and skills the seemingly impossible can be seen for its true potential. When asking questions, not much different than a wreckage, some of the things that are part of the wreckage will have to be discarded, some things that are not part of the wreckage will have to be added, and what remains will have to be worked on to reveal all of the true potential of what started out as nothing more than a wreckage. Chris Williamson opened this video with the question, "given that we are biological creatures, why do we need meaning, why do humans need to do all this work in order to be satisfied with life?" After looking over this question I soon start to see that it isn't a pristine creation but more like a wreckage. For instance, the fact that we are all biological creatures is not to be correlated with "needing meaning" in our lives. Earth is populated with almost endless biological creatures but unlike human beings none of them need to seek meaning in their lives unlike humans. On this great Earth only human beings are endowed with the gift of being able to ask questions and only human beings can come to see the truth that abides. It is this unique gift that, whenever exercised, can lead us to find greater meaning and purpose in our lives. In the hands of someone with the right knowledge and skills, the question asked by Chris Williamson would start to be worked on to reveal more of its true potential and read something like this, "given that we are the created and endowed with unique gifts, how is our immortal soul impacted and the lives we lead if and when we fail to seek and acquire meaning in life?" Mr. Williamson's question was answered by John Vervaeke and, among the things said, he replies ".........meaning has to do with sense making, it has to do with how we properly pay attention to the right kind of information that can allow us to reliably solve a wide variety of problems and a wide variety of domains........most of our problem solving is done in connection with other people.......we need to feel connected to other people because most of our problem solving is done via other people that's our great super power. Individuals, biologically as you framed it, were pretty pathetic animals........" On closer analysis, Mr. Vervaeke's reply doesn't reflect the right knowledge and skills that we would expect if we're going to reveal the true potential of what started out as nothing more than a wreckage. For instance, by now we know that the wrong kinds of people will create all manner of human problems and, by the same token, you wouldn't work with the source of the problem(s) if you're looking for solutions, would we? When we soil ourselves, do we work with the crap that is on us or do we enlist and bring to bear water and soap to clean the crap off us? Whenever we are looking to get rid of the problem we never work with the problem but always bring to bear the solutions to the problem. Chris Williamson would asked the question, "talk to me about the sort of established body of work when it comes to meaning?" The reply given by Mr. Vervaeke ran long but some of it stated, ........"another one is purpose that's not well posed........purpose is you're working towards some ultimate goal. That's a very dangerous way of framing meaning because if you never reached a goal your life was meaningless and if you reach it going forward you're pretty meaningless." Just for a moment, let us consider this, if all we're doing in our lives is kidding one another how are we to ever know what our purpose is? If we are not made to know where we originate from, how is it that we are to learn meaningful purpose in our lives? Before we are to have meaningful purpose in our lives we have to learn all that is promised to us and all that has been given to us by he who creates and endows. Whenever we come to know about all that God creates and learn about all of the things that God makes united and paired we can then start to partake of meaningful purpose in life. Conversely, no amount of doing will give purpose to your life if there is no truth in whatever you do. Truth and purpose always come united by he who creates and endows and you can never have purpose without first having truth. Without truth there is no purpose, but truth and purpose will always give meaning to your life. Plain truth is simple and this matter is no different, no different that a question, if you get the order of things wrong from the beginning you will always start with nothing more than a wreckage. ReneB, Florida.
Going to be interesting to see how many try and buy their way to meaning going forward. Social media should document the down fall digitally so humanity will at least have an accurate record.
Hey Everyone 🤠 Find the parts that interest you: 0:00 - Why do humans need meaning? 2:48 - Importance of connection to others 7:59 - Critique of standard meaning models 10:27 - Exploring depths of the psyche 12:20 - Importance of feeling connected to reality 14:47 - The significance of honesty in relationships 20:40 - Loneliness and addiction in modern life 22:45 - The rise of conspiratorial ideologies 24:52 - Importance of serving others for meaning 31:17 - Decline in trust and friendships 34:01 - Importance of having children for meaning 39:01 - Parenting and its impact on caring for others 42:07 - Dawkins' view on reality and evidence 44:25 - The power of presence in relationships 46:21 - Imaginal knowledge and its importance 52:31 - Insight and jumping to conclusions 54:34 - Unteachable lessons and their significance 58:50 - Serious play and transformative experiences 1:02:46 - The need for control in decision-making 1:06:12 - Practices for embodied awareness and joy 1:13:35 - Imaginal practices for personal transformation 1:19:00 - The Advent of the Sacred in communities Chat with videos via Bumpups 🌲
Here's my unteachable lesson: The weed, alcohol and tobacco addictions I've quit pale in comparison to the horrors I went through when quitting my religion addiction. The underlying tone of the conversation reminded me of the ugly lyrics of "Opiate" by tool. We all need a tribe, but keeping each-other in check while worshipping an authority that knows best is about as much a democracy as China is. And China works much like the giant family that religion tries to bootstrap. I think we can grow individually and re-build trustworthiness from the ground-up without the need for false idols and dishonesty. "Be wary of shortcuts to knowledge."
That wasn't my experience. My conversion to Catholicism super-charged my life. It helped me overcome my inner a**hole and gave me my amazing wife and eleven children. Not to say there aren't bad churches out there. I had friends deeply wounded by fundamentalist sects. But those are the exception. Don't discard millennia of human wisdom on your own experiences.
My journey to completely abandon religion was the most liberating thing ever. No more constant feeling of shame. But on the down side: I can’t trust in an imaginary god that will protect me from everything. Nothing cares about you. But even that awakening is better than the opium of religion
Uncle Ted wrote about all this. He called it the power process, doing something that makes you feel like you have meaning and surrogate activities which are jobs and hobbies that replace those primeval instincts to hunt and gather
'For if anything in the world is desirable, so desirable that even the dull and uneducated herd in its more reflective moments would value it more highly than silver and gold, it is that a ray of light should fall on the obscurity of our existence, and that we should obtain some information about this enigmatical life of ours, in which nothing is clear except its misery and vanity'- Schopenhauer
Here's what you should do Chris, bring on a guest who knows about the history of La Convivencia, which is a golden age which occurred, most of it coming from Andalucia Spain Jews, moors, and Catholics all living in Harmony, and instead of going to the political side, consider the artistic and scientific, especially the Music, and consider its psychological balance to the overall culture
Minutes 14-17:00 really hit home. I know a part of my life I was in the Matrix and there are fleeting moments when I miss it... until I remember it wasn't real. I want to live my true life, never a fictitious one. Meaning and adventure come from the truth and only that path. Great episode, thank you.
That is what someone declared wrong information about some other one, which made forcing out ways to make it real. The threatening and disruptive inversion at the first place turned it out as tragic. It would be associative in destructing personality, undergoing things by the declaration makes dissatisfaction thar is not fair.
John reminds me of the valid argument for why an Omnipotent (all powerful) God is impossible. An all powerful Sky Guy is impossible because He/She/It cannot make a rock that He/She/It cannot move. If cannot make it, not all powerful, and if can make it but cannot move it, then also not all powerful. That is why a finite or infinite Sky Guy is impossible.
What i wonder is kids SHOULD bring meaning to lives of parents but why doesn’t it for alot of boomer parents? Millennial kids will see this. But i see alot of older parents just nihilistic as fuck and they hate that they have kids or something like that
Some people don't realize that kids bring meaning. Until they actually have kids. So, some of those who never get kids may never realize it. How should you know how coffee tastes if you never had a coffee? Why should any of that be restricted to boomers? 50% of women under 30 in the US have no kids. And many of them never will.
@ i asked why DOESN’T it bring meaning to their lives when boomers have kids ask most 30 some year olds alot of them have shitty miserable alcoholic parents boomer aged i work with miserable boomers with kids that should’ve brought them meaning but they miserable giving a false sense of what having kids is all about. So why didn’t it work for that generation specifically from what i have observed?
@ Being an alcoholic is not an invention of the boomer generation. It's never good for kids to have alcoholic parents. Not in the past, not in the future.
My thoughts, for what it’s worth: Divorce isn’t always bad. Staying together “because of the kids” feeds a deep resentment that ultimately gets WORSE when the kids leave because the now much-older parents feel like they missed their chance to find a better partner when they were “attractive”. Now they’re resentful and bitter because they suffered a highly unsatisfactory relationship with the co-parent, sacrificed their “best years”, all in the name of “the kids” Maybe the kids didn’t specifically know what was going on behind the scenes, but they sure as hell felt the divide. Probably they blamed themselves, at least in part. Saddest part- they learned “that’s what marriage/love feels/looks like”, so they repeat the cycle somehow
@ this touches on the What but not necessarily the Why. And what you touch on is the massive ego that lingers on in the boomer generation that Should have died or dissolved when an offspring is produced but it didn’t… another thing I noticed is they are godless, Nietzsche’s godless and children should become that god shaped hole in their hearts.
So, if we were capable of achieving a sound mind independent of others, the utility of meaning would be reduced to mere invitation. That, of course, assumes that meaning has the power to calm the mind and that that is of primary importance.
I really respect and honor for people like in this conversation. They aid for spiritual, confident, and lovely talk for many times, it would give people supportive feeling even when they are so tragic. I have explored some theories about crisis, I was surprise that various voices are possible, it is another possibilities beyond meanings and associativeness I could develop.
Yes and no about kids… of course while in the process of raising them. Yes, your focus is there, but it doesn’t mean that you’re not dealing with a meaning crisis at the same time or afterwards..
Me I always want to know what is a fulfilled life? I even asked AI what is a fulfilled life according to Jesus, to Buddha, even on stoic sense etc. etc. For me the meaning of life is if we can contribute on other people's lives , that we can help them if they need it .
It's the one part that this show is unable to connect with, all these other things are still very important, but it's missing the art as language, David Lynch just passed, and there's a very significant contribution in how he's delivering storytelling, which relates to the subconscious and flow state, etc. while also commenting on life, yet keeping it very open at the same time, this is what connects us with more meaning, it's in the music too, which another thing that Chris doesn't seem to have much interest in, there is so much more nuance and spiritual history, than just modern practicality
We should envy the animal kingdom. None of it considers such things to the point of dread, regret, pondering immortality, etc. ie pain and suffering of the mind.
I used to think that way now I think the opposite. I couldn’t put it into words that sound smart but I’m so appreciative of the immense suffering and overcoming and transformation that’s possible
There is a crisis of meaning because the last two generations of people in this country have been made to believe happiness is an entitlement. The concept of fighting for the things you want has been lost.
The root desire of all life is to have a good life. And when you know you only have this one life in all the eternity of the universe, maximizing your probability of having a good life means minimizing dealing with people's bullsh-t. Be kind and understanding with all people, but never let anyone ruin the quality of your life or mind. If one is climbing Mount Enlightenment, it is challenging but should be rewarding.
07:40 You can have DARK or Negative Wisdom tho! Think of different dictators and rulers now and today, the Art of War, technocratic elite, etc etc all sorts of negative wisdom exist's. By negative I mean the ecological check of good now good for myself and others and good across time etc. You can have very wise and very negative at the same time. The Cultivation of Wisdom and Virtue being identical in Stoicism shows how wisdom has lost its underpinning of Universal Principles and Ethics in modern language.
Chris first interview with John Vervaeke was great! Now he is talking about his tax haven The Vervaeke Foundation and how worried he is in becoming a dictator in it? Just keep healthy people, you have value intrinsically and trust yourself. These people want to sell books and eye sockets on their youtube channel.
“Given that we’re biological creatures…” Well, what if we are not biological creatures, Chris? Unless you are able to explain consciousness and soul in biological terms, which no science has successfully demonstrated so far, I don’t believe that’s our fundamental nature. Maybe our deepest meaning is to fully understand that.
One could argue that consciousness is an emergent property from higher order brain function. Human>dog>slug>bacteria; as organisms become increasingly complex, they develop greater capacity for agency.
Don't agree. Someone who withdraws is actually very wise. It does not mean pain. It means they are waiting for their chance to attack. It's all about patience.
The Father is making a companion. You're clone material on the soul refinery called the earth. If you make it. You can become part of God. Any questions ? 🤔
What, we solve our own problems out, other people are the source of our problems, it's no friend who puts the weight of a problem on you when they can't deal with it themselves,f**k off with that, I've my own problems, we don't need others to give us more, then there are those who deal with their own stuff they are your friends. That's who you should surround yourself with,strong people don't hang out with losers, you'll soon know who and what you are by who you have giving you what kind of input.
1:22:22 The pursuit of meaning through diverse religious experience is a fool’s errand. As John stated, if it is not “really real” then practical benefit and effect is worthless. The idea of sublime experience informing truth is a false methodology because our feelings are subjective, superficial and highly untrustworthy. Jeremiah 17:9 “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?” Proverbs 3:5-6. Trust in the LORD. Job 28. What is the source of wisdom? Psalm 111 God’s works demonstrate He is the trustworthy source of wisdom Mark 8:36 “For what does it profit a man to gain the whole world and forfeit his soul?”
If a special agent wore “The Kiss” on a big white collar would a word need to be spoken or would agency be established right away? IMHO the agent would be in charge even if depraved indifference assured an attempt to dismiss the kiss by all who had never known it!
"Anomalistic Paradigm Shift" Oh, these beings inferior to self, shall never be free. Shall forever find themselves, shackled, lost within obscurity. For within such, there exist no human. No mind. Within such, be there a physiological organism, tethered to that of a passive life. For, each organism only seeks to procreate. Only seeks to survive. Only seeks to deem itself, a knowing entity. Be that why, such believes? Why, such constantly deems itself, apart of a "We"? Tethered, in some way, to a, singularity. Oh, this singularity. This, which is so constant. This, which within my mind, I find. For, Be there, no number, in actuality. No way, for any molecule, to be represented, absent the simplicity of its existence. For, within such, each one, shall exist, as, idiosyncratic. Absent the ability to be categorized. Be you, only human externally. Be that, the singularity one seeks. To be, a singular species. For, within such, be there comprehension of, "Dual Singularity". This, "One Within One". For, each perceptual paradigm, shall be deemed, anomaly...
You have some great sponsors and then build credibility....but then shill 'superior creatine' come on dude. way to lose your rep for £££ - just like AG1 smh - only reason I tune in now is for your guests and not your contributions to the show.....
John doesn't understand he is two or three standard deviations beyond the average persons understanding and capacity for what he means by "meaning". We are not all the same. There's a Pareto distribution for "meaning". I asked Jordan Peterson that question and never got an answer.
He understands fully where he’s coming from. You need this detail and substance to discuss why meaning is important, and where one can find it outside of the shallow or artificial
@@born5601 Then it's not a functional model for those who cannot perceive or utilize it. It's the Platonic Philosopher's Lie, the Gnostic hearsay of special knowledge, the monarchists nobles oblige and the post-Modernist credential called "Education". I agree a meta-Framework or "model" is useful, but the devil is in the details.
Yes, for some, "meaning" may be a Sadist who finds fulfillment through that "meaning". Careful what you wish for. The pursuit of "meaning" has had bad outcomes here in California.
Well let us not forget we also have the right to assign and create meaning and purpose the idea of purpose and meaning are not the sole domain of spirituality, it's an ability we all have and human beings in search of human flourishing.
Hello you savages. Get my free Reading List of 100 life-changing books here - chriswillx.com/books/ Here's the timestamps:
00:00 Why Do Humans Need Meaning?
11:04 Do People Feel Like Their Lives Are Actually Real?
16:53 Differences Between Purpose & Meaning
24:02 Is the Pursuit of Meaning a Selfish One?
30:00 What is Causing Society’s Modern Lack of Meaning?
33:01 Could Having More Kids Solve the Meaning Crisis?
40:01 Does Religion Have to Be True For it to Be Useful?
47:35 Seeing Meaning as a Thinking Problem
53:21 The Principle of Unteachable Lessons
1:02:56 Why Would You Know What’s Best For Yourself?
1:09:35 Strategies to Be More Mindful in Daily Life
1:16:43 What‘s Next for John?
1:22:59 Where to Find John
For me you have touched upon something profound with the "unteachable lessons or unteachable truth"! Universal principles and ethics like gratitude, trust, sincerity, harmony, respect, courage, self-discipline, responsibility, service, integrity, humility, openness, interconnectedness, ethical awareness, unconditional love, selfless service, and stewardship cannot actually be taught. They must be lived! Only by embodiment can they be Known in the sense that Aristotle meant when he said "He who best Knows the chair is the carpenter".
I also noticed that if you invert John Vervaeke's meaning in life 4 aspects outwards, to manifest them outwardly and give of them to others, so that you live in a way where you embody them and bring that "meaning in life" in a felt sense to all who you encounter and deepen your connection with. That is what we would call "unconditional Love"
Only around 12 mins in but I'm incredibly grateful for this episode. The idea of life feeling viscerally real is something I've thought about for a long time. I'm glad it's being addressed.
My meaning was doing everything I could to make my kids’ lives better and set them up for success in the future. I’ve had several personal setbacks, but I’d like to think I’ve succeeded with my kids.
Everyone should listen to this guy talk way more often. His series on RUclips is transformative.
Amen
Listen to him talk more nonsense?
I thank God for John Vervaeke. He has so many insights to offer.
I've become a fan of John watching him in Jordan's Gosple series because he brings an outside perspective but truly, truly wants to understand what the others actually believe. There is not an ounce of disrespect or gotcha. He's so open and curious and I admire that and respect his approach. He brings really great insights. Looking forward to hearing him on this episode!
I know John probably doesn’t spark a ton of interest in your audience, Chris, but man do I love it when you have him on your podcast ❤
I very much appreciated John's vulnerability when he talked about how he wanted to 'change how he entered into relationships' and 'allowing himself to feel attracted in ways he hadn't been before.'
That bit was particularly insightful, thank you
Really appreciate John's vulnerability in sharing his story about consciously going against his evolutionary impulses and instead playing a longer, transformative game. I'd imagine it being a very inspiring message for most men
Thank you so much. I've been trying to express (badly it seems) the notion that Vervaeke called fellowship. These are the deeper connections missing for so many, but that I realized I was seeking in my own meaning crisis. It is also exactly what I've found in church, since I started going a few years ago.
Highly recommend to everyone scrolling the comments to check out more of Johns stuff :)
You’re lighting the path for those ready to rise. Change isn’t just coming - it’s here, and you’re part of it.
John’s comment about not dating his type is interesting and reminded me as to why online dating is tenuous at best…because more often than not people that we may not find attractive at first become very attractive to us once we get to know them and you don’t get that opportunity with online dating… because more often we are prone to see appearance first and character doesn’t often get revealed in such a shallow forum….just an aside…great conversation as usual..
St. John! Thanks Chris - the world needs to know about him more and more and more. Well done!
Two of my favourite people in the planet talking together, hope this going to be just the first one. ❤❤❤
I recommend John's new book and RUclips series wholeheartedly. He's part of the A team.
What is this all about? If you can help me ?
@@rinkiradigoplease ask a more direct question so someone can answer it.
@@ryugo7713 why do we have this urge in d finding the purpose of life?? And only few gets this urge
@@rinkiradigo you say it as if it was a bad thing?
The only meaning of life I have found is in helping those who are suffering, if they are willing to help themselves. When you help, never ask for thanks of any kind.
The one universal emotion humans experience is suffering. As you are limited to the number of people you can help, so avoid individuals who are never willing to help themselves. By not asking for thanks, you avoid the dopamine trap. However, at some point, you will experience a sense of " emotional balance" or a sense of belonging in the universe. BEST WISHES
John Vervaeke is one of the most interesting persons to listen to in my opinion, I'm always captivated by the ways that he weaves philosophy, psychology and sociology together in a complex but still graspable manner while being especially mindful of the scientific literature. As someone who's uneducated and who's first language isn't English, I find it sometimes challenging to follow his train of thought because I'm not used to such deep thinking and also need to pause constantly to Google concepts and new words but it's always worth it because there is just so much to take away from his lectures and interviews which is why I'm extremely excited to learn that he's finally started to write books so that I can take in what he has to offer at my own rhythm. Anyway, great conversation, I'll be ordering the book right away and I'm very excited to see what's next for him, thanks for having him on, Chris!
Chris, you’re probably my favorite UK interviewer/pod ❤
“The only lives that truly matter are those who respect the lives of others”. Literally and figuratively true.
I found the most meaning in life when I was thru hiking. Food and water were important, but nothing was more important than seeing a friend (or even a stranger). A hot shower or an outhouse were delightful luxuries. Wish I could live my whole life like that.
Our ancestors did live their whole lives like that.
Sex and family are the meaning of life. Suffering is worth it as long as there is someone to sacrifice yourself for. Morality is an abstraction that creates a familial relationship between strangers. "Hell is other people" People don't like to live in a materialistic society even if they themselves are materialistic.Technocapitalism is the Thing that eats people's souls and creates monsters...
The episode being 1:23:45 in lenght gave me satisfaction, thanks.
Absolutely fascinating that you're having Mr. Vervake on the show.
ps: I've only recently discovered him, I think on Nate Hagen's channel ("The Great Simplificiation"), or in a longer session with Daniel Schmachtenberger and Ian McGilchrist. All of them are very recommendable.
Wonderfully necessary and profound discussion.
You’ve been on a roll with these bangers, keep it up g 💪
Great job Chris in asking for examples and clarification of such me of these concepts. I ❤ Vervake but sometimes struggle with the massive distance between his wisdom and mine.
This topic is so important and there’s so much to talk about. For example: the importance of Needs. Maslow’s expanded 8 not the original 5! Thanks for the video!
Been waiting for you to have Vervaeke on again, let's goooo!
The bit about relationships was particularly observant, about how finding attraction through a different route, can then lead you to realise someone was physically your type after all. You just used the wrong lens initially.
Thank you for this. Great discussion. Love JV ❤
I see John Vervaeke, I hit like. 😃👍
❤I'm looking forward to the new travel/philosophy course!!! ❤
Started out slow for me but this episode has been awesome. I'm really going through it right now and have felt completely lost for the last couple months. This has been very helpful, thank you.
Great questioning Chris
If you have lived long enough then you will know that human patience, attention span, and even great vigor can become exhausted by endless talking and rambling conversations. But for some of us, enough living would have taught us that plain truth is always paired with simple answers. If you are keen to notice, more often than not our questions can start to resemble a wreckage rather than a pristine creation. Not to be discouraged because, just like a wreckage, in the hands of someone with the wright knowledge and skills the seemingly impossible can be seen for its true potential. When asking questions, not much different than a wreckage, some of the things that are part of the wreckage will have to be discarded, some things that are not part of the wreckage will have to be added, and what remains will have to be worked on to reveal all of the true potential of what started out as nothing more than a wreckage. Chris Williamson opened this video with the question, "given that we are biological creatures, why do we need meaning, why do humans need to do all this work in order to be satisfied with life?" After looking over this question I soon start to see that it isn't a pristine creation but more like a wreckage. For instance, the fact that we are all biological creatures is not to be correlated with "needing meaning" in our lives. Earth is populated with almost endless biological creatures but unlike human beings none of them need to seek meaning in their lives unlike humans. On this great Earth only human beings are endowed with the gift of being able to ask questions and only human beings can come to see the truth that abides. It is this unique gift that, whenever exercised, can lead us to find greater meaning and purpose in our lives. In the hands of someone with the right knowledge and skills, the question asked by Chris Williamson would start to be worked on to reveal more of its true potential and read something like this, "given that we are the created and endowed with unique gifts, how is our immortal soul impacted and the lives we lead if and when we fail to seek and acquire meaning in life?" Mr. Williamson's question was answered by John Vervaeke and, among the things said, he replies ".........meaning has to do with sense making, it has to do with how we properly pay attention to the right kind of information that can allow us to reliably solve a wide variety of problems and a wide variety of domains........most of our problem solving is done in connection with other people.......we need to feel connected to other people because most of our problem solving is done via other people that's our great super power. Individuals, biologically as you framed it, were pretty pathetic animals........" On closer analysis, Mr. Vervaeke's reply doesn't reflect the right knowledge and skills that we would expect if we're going to reveal the true potential of what started out as nothing more than a wreckage. For instance, by now we know that the wrong kinds of people will create all manner of human problems and, by the same token, you wouldn't work with the source of the problem(s) if you're looking for solutions, would we? When we soil ourselves, do we work with the crap that is on us or do we enlist and bring to bear water and soap to clean the crap off us? Whenever we are looking to get rid of the problem we never work with the problem but always bring to bear the solutions to the problem. Chris Williamson would asked the question, "talk to me about the sort of established body of work when it comes to meaning?" The reply given by Mr. Vervaeke ran long but some of it stated, ........"another one is purpose that's not well posed........purpose is you're working towards some ultimate goal. That's a very dangerous way of framing meaning because if you never reached a goal your life was meaningless and if you reach it going forward you're pretty meaningless." Just for a moment, let us consider this, if all we're doing in our lives is kidding one another how are we to ever know what our purpose is? If we are not made to know where we originate from, how is it that we are to learn meaningful purpose in our lives? Before we are to have meaningful purpose in our lives we have to learn all that is promised to us and all that has been given to us by he who creates and endows. Whenever we come to know about all that God creates and learn about all of the things that God makes united and paired we can then start to partake of meaningful purpose in life. Conversely, no amount of doing will give purpose to your life if there is no truth in whatever you do. Truth and purpose always come united by he who creates and endows and you can never have purpose without first having truth. Without truth there is no purpose, but truth and purpose will always give meaning to your life. Plain truth is simple and this matter is no different, no different that a question, if you get the order of things wrong from the beginning you will always start with nothing more than a wreckage. ReneB, Florida.
Going to be interesting to see how many try and buy their way to meaning going forward. Social media should document the down fall digitally so humanity will at least have an accurate record.
I didn’t know that I need to be connected to something. I believe that I am more content than most of the people I know.
Hey Everyone 🤠
Find the parts that interest you:
0:00 - Why do humans need meaning?
2:48 - Importance of connection to others
7:59 - Critique of standard meaning models
10:27 - Exploring depths of the psyche
12:20 - Importance of feeling connected to reality
14:47 - The significance of honesty in relationships
20:40 - Loneliness and addiction in modern life
22:45 - The rise of conspiratorial ideologies
24:52 - Importance of serving others for meaning
31:17 - Decline in trust and friendships
34:01 - Importance of having children for meaning
39:01 - Parenting and its impact on caring for others
42:07 - Dawkins' view on reality and evidence
44:25 - The power of presence in relationships
46:21 - Imaginal knowledge and its importance
52:31 - Insight and jumping to conclusions
54:34 - Unteachable lessons and their significance
58:50 - Serious play and transformative experiences
1:02:46 - The need for control in decision-making
1:06:12 - Practices for embodied awareness and joy
1:13:35 - Imaginal practices for personal transformation
1:19:00 - The Advent of the Sacred in communities
Chat with videos via Bumpups 🌲
I already had 3 Vervaeke Podcasts lined up 😭😭😭
Chris reminds me of one of my post-it notes: There are parts of your own brain that are not your friend.
Would love to see John get better mic. It was stressful trying to understand him at time for me.
''neither side has a monopoly on foolishness'' is probably one of the funniest things I've heard in a while.
52:15 insight certainly does work that way when you’re on psychedelics lol
Very good interview, extremely interesting interview partner
Here's my unteachable lesson: The weed, alcohol and tobacco addictions I've quit pale in comparison to the horrors I went through when quitting my religion addiction. The underlying tone of the conversation reminded me of the ugly lyrics of "Opiate" by tool. We all need a tribe, but keeping each-other in check while worshipping an authority that knows best is about as much a democracy as China is. And China works much like the giant family that religion tries to bootstrap. I think we can grow individually and re-build trustworthiness from the ground-up without the need for false idols and dishonesty. "Be wary of shortcuts to knowledge."
Be wary of lost wisdom
That wasn't my experience. My conversion to Catholicism super-charged my life. It helped me overcome my inner a**hole and gave me my amazing wife and eleven children. Not to say there aren't bad churches out there. I had friends deeply wounded by fundamentalist sects. But those are the exception. Don't discard millennia of human wisdom on your own experiences.
My journey to completely abandon religion was the most liberating thing ever. No more constant feeling of shame. But on the down side: I can’t trust in an imaginary god that will protect me from everything. Nothing cares about you. But even that awakening is better than the opium of religion
Uncle Ted wrote about all this. He called it the power process, doing something that makes you feel like you have meaning and surrogate activities which are jobs and hobbies that replace those primeval instincts to hunt and gather
The purpose in life is to procreate and the meaning in life is to be lived.Truth is simple and elegant and wisdom is the result
John is my favorite person to learn from right now!!❤❤❤
'For if anything in the world is desirable, so desirable that even the dull and uneducated herd in its more reflective moments would value it more highly than silver and gold, it is that a ray of light should fall on the obscurity of our existence, and that we should obtain some information about this enigmatical life of ours, in which nothing is clear except its misery and vanity'- Schopenhauer
Here's what you should do Chris, bring on a guest who knows about the history of La Convivencia, which is a golden age which occurred, most of it coming from Andalucia Spain
Jews, moors, and Catholics all living in Harmony,
and instead of going to the political side, consider the artistic and scientific, especially the Music, and consider its psychological balance to the overall culture
Minutes 14-17:00 really hit home. I know a part of my life I was in the Matrix and there are fleeting moments when I miss it... until I remember it wasn't real. I want to live my true life, never a fictitious one. Meaning and adventure come from the truth and only that path. Great episode, thank you.
That is what someone declared wrong information about some other one, which made forcing out ways to make it real. The threatening and disruptive inversion at the first place turned it out as tragic. It would be associative in destructing personality, undergoing things by the declaration makes dissatisfaction thar is not fair.
John reminds me of the valid argument for why an Omnipotent (all powerful) God is impossible. An all powerful Sky Guy is impossible because He/She/It cannot make a rock that He/She/It cannot move. If cannot make it, not all powerful, and if can make it but cannot move it, then also not all powerful. That is why a finite or infinite Sky Guy is impossible.
Love your videos!
You should have them translated For your spanish audience
Love from Argentina 💪
What i wonder is kids SHOULD bring meaning to lives of parents but why doesn’t it for alot of boomer parents? Millennial kids will see this. But i see alot of older parents just nihilistic as fuck and they hate that they have kids or something like that
Some people don't realize that kids bring meaning. Until they actually have kids. So, some of those who never get kids may never realize it. How should you know how coffee tastes if you never had a coffee? Why should any of that be restricted to boomers? 50% of women under 30 in the US have no kids. And many of them never will.
@ i asked why DOESN’T it bring meaning to their lives when boomers have kids ask most 30 some year olds alot of them have shitty miserable alcoholic parents boomer aged i work with miserable boomers with kids that should’ve brought them meaning but they miserable giving a false sense of what having kids is all about. So why didn’t it work for that generation specifically from what i have observed?
@ Being an alcoholic is not an invention of the boomer generation. It's never good for kids to have alcoholic parents. Not in the past, not in the future.
My thoughts, for what it’s worth:
Divorce isn’t always bad. Staying together “because of the kids” feeds a deep resentment that ultimately gets WORSE when the kids leave because the now much-older parents feel like they missed their chance to find a better partner when they were “attractive”. Now they’re resentful and bitter because they suffered a highly unsatisfactory relationship with the co-parent, sacrificed their “best years”, all in the name of “the kids”
Maybe the kids didn’t specifically know what was going on behind the scenes, but they sure as hell felt the divide. Probably they blamed themselves, at least in part.
Saddest part- they learned “that’s what marriage/love feels/looks like”, so they repeat the cycle somehow
@ this touches on the What but not necessarily the Why. And what you touch on is the massive ego that lingers on in the boomer generation that Should have died or dissolved when an offspring is produced but it didn’t… another thing I noticed is they are godless, Nietzsche’s godless and children should become that god shaped hole in their hearts.
What an excellent philosophical debate.
So, if we were capable of achieving a sound mind independent of others, the utility of meaning would be reduced to mere invitation.
That, of course, assumes that meaning has the power to calm the mind and that that is of primary importance.
I really respect and honor for people like in this conversation. They aid for spiritual, confident, and lovely talk for many times, it would give people supportive feeling even when they are so tragic. I have explored some theories about crisis, I was surprise that various voices are possible, it is another possibilities beyond meanings and associativeness I could develop.
Good stuff man!
Yes and no about kids… of course while in the process of raising them. Yes, your focus is there, but it doesn’t mean that you’re not dealing with a meaning crisis at the same time or afterwards..
Me I always want to know what is a fulfilled life? I even asked AI what is a fulfilled life according to Jesus, to Buddha, even on stoic sense etc. etc.
For me the meaning of life is if we can contribute on other people's lives , that we can help them if they need it .
The game is…I see me, I see you. The other game is….hate the game , not the player. 😊
It's the one part that this show is unable to connect with, all these other things are still very important, but it's missing the art as language, David Lynch just passed, and there's a very significant contribution in how he's delivering storytelling, which relates to the subconscious and flow state, etc. while also commenting on life, yet keeping it very open at the same time, this is what connects us with more meaning, it's in the music too, which another thing that Chris doesn't seem to have much interest in, there is so much more nuance and spiritual history, than just modern practicality
We should envy the animal kingdom. None of it considers such things to the point of dread, regret, pondering immortality, etc. ie pain and suffering of the mind.
I used to think that way now I think the opposite. I couldn’t put it into words that sound smart but I’m so appreciative of the immense suffering and overcoming and transformation that’s possible
Definition-making
Qualitative approximation
There is a crisis of meaning because the last two generations of people in this country have been made to believe happiness is an entitlement. The concept of fighting for the things you want has been lost.
Complicate a simple idea, write a book=$$
The root desire of all life is to have a good life. And when you know you only have this one life in all the eternity of the universe, maximizing your probability of having a good life means minimizing dealing with people's bullsh-t. Be kind and understanding with all people, but never let anyone ruin the quality of your life or mind. If one is climbing Mount Enlightenment, it is challenging but should be rewarding.
07:40 You can have DARK or Negative Wisdom tho! Think of different dictators and rulers now and today, the Art of War, technocratic elite, etc etc all sorts of negative wisdom exist's. By negative I mean the ecological check of good now good for myself and others and good across time etc. You can have very wise and very negative at the same time. The Cultivation of Wisdom and Virtue being identical in Stoicism shows how wisdom has lost its underpinning of Universal Principles and Ethics in modern language.
The pessimistic man is more wise than the naive man but he’s still got a long way to go
I will never forget Goggins talking about Peformance without Purpose. No meaning needed. You are the Purpose!
If I trust the Supreme Court my life has meaning?
Chris first interview with John Vervaeke was great! Now he is talking about his tax haven The Vervaeke Foundation and how worried he is in becoming a dictator in it? Just keep healthy people, you have value intrinsically and trust yourself. These people want to sell books and eye sockets on their youtube channel.
Do episode with alain de botton please
"Attaching you to a locomotive doesn't give you meaning in life"
Speak for yourself man, you don't know me
❤
Operant conditioning. Thats why!
Because God.
No other worldview provides greater purpose, meaning and worth for ones self and others than Christianity ✝️
34:30 - Individualism is diabolical
“Given that we’re biological creatures…”
Well, what if we are not biological creatures, Chris? Unless you are able to explain consciousness and soul in biological terms, which no science has successfully demonstrated so far, I don’t believe that’s our fundamental nature.
Maybe our deepest meaning is to fully understand that.
One could argue that consciousness is an emergent property from higher order brain function. Human>dog>slug>bacteria; as organisms become increasingly complex, they develop greater capacity for agency.
I've been trying 😪
I believe there is this huge #1 hot selling book that is bit. Im sure if youve heard it for a while. Its called the bible.
Lost me at 25.58.
Elaborate?
If you think Jordan Peterson is prone to being verbose and going off on tangents...good luck with this fellow.
Don't agree. Someone who withdraws is actually very wise. It does not mean pain. It means they are waiting for their chance to attack. It's all about patience.
Almost at the end and still I have found no meaning. Oh, wait - all meaning is made up.
The Father is making a companion.
You're clone material on the soul refinery called the earth. If you make it. You can become part of God. Any questions ? 🤔
Hey I would like to be on your podcast.
Why do people insist on inventing meaning when there clearly is none...? Find a purpose instead, at least then you'd be useful in some way.
How is there clearly no meaning? Do you know something no one else does? Why do you differentiate purpose and meaning?
What, we solve our own problems out, other people are the source of our problems, it's no friend who puts the weight of a problem on you when they can't deal with it themselves,f**k off with that, I've my own problems, we don't need others to give us more, then there are those who deal with their own stuff they are your friends. That's who you should surround yourself with,strong people don't hang out with losers, you'll soon know who and what you are by who you have giving you what kind of input.
The judge behind everything else? Isn't that God?
1:22:22 The pursuit of meaning through diverse religious experience is a fool’s errand. As John stated, if it is not “really real” then practical benefit and effect is worthless.
The idea of sublime experience informing truth is a false methodology because our feelings are subjective, superficial and highly untrustworthy.
Jeremiah 17:9
“The heart is deceitful above all things,
and desperately sick;
who can understand it?”
Proverbs 3:5-6. Trust in the LORD.
Job 28. What is the source of wisdom?
Psalm 111 God’s works demonstrate He is the trustworthy source of wisdom
Mark 8:36
“For what does it profit a man to gain the whole world and forfeit his soul?”
I would like to give some Central Asian or Uzbekistani perspective to all this if you invite me.
If a special agent wore “The Kiss” on a big white collar would a word need to be spoken or would agency be established right away? IMHO the agent would be in charge even if depraved indifference assured an attempt to dismiss the kiss by all who had never known it!
"Anomalistic Paradigm Shift"
Oh,
these beings inferior to self,
shall never be free.
Shall forever find themselves,
shackled,
lost within obscurity.
For within such,
there exist no human.
No mind.
Within such,
be there a physiological organism,
tethered to that of a passive life.
For,
each organism only seeks to procreate.
Only seeks to survive.
Only seeks to deem itself,
a knowing entity.
Be that why,
such believes?
Why,
such constantly deems itself,
apart of a "We"?
Tethered,
in some way,
to a,
singularity.
Oh,
this singularity.
This,
which is so constant.
This,
which within my mind,
I find.
For,
Be there,
no number,
in actuality.
No way,
for any molecule,
to be represented,
absent the simplicity of its existence.
For,
within such,
each one,
shall exist,
as,
idiosyncratic.
Absent the ability to be categorized.
Be you,
only human externally.
Be that,
the singularity one seeks.
To be,
a singular species.
For,
within such,
be there comprehension of,
"Dual Singularity".
This,
"One Within One".
For,
each perceptual paradigm,
shall be deemed,
anomaly...
You have some great sponsors and then build credibility....but then shill 'superior creatine' come on dude. way to lose your rep for £££ - just like AG1 smh - only reason I tune in now is for your guests and not your contributions to the show.....
😢😢😢
👍
Never gonna ball gag again
John doesn't understand he is two or three standard deviations beyond the average persons understanding and capacity for what he means by "meaning". We are not all the same. There's a Pareto distribution for "meaning". I asked Jordan Peterson that question and never got an answer.
He understands fully where he’s coming from. You need this detail and substance to discuss why meaning is important, and where one can find it outside of the shallow or artificial
John is articulating reality in a higher resolution than some might model it in their mind. Its the same reality for both however.
@@born5601 Then it's not a functional model for those who cannot perceive or utilize it.
It's the Platonic Philosopher's Lie, the Gnostic hearsay of special knowledge, the monarchists nobles oblige and the post-Modernist credential called "Education".
I agree a meta-Framework or "model" is useful, but the devil is in the details.
The only ‘crisis of meaning’ that exists is the idea that we need meaning in order to feel fulfilled in the first place
Yes, for some, "meaning" may be a Sadist who finds fulfillment through that "meaning". Careful what you wish for. The pursuit of "meaning" has had bad outcomes here in California.
What do you mean?
@@mediatechjohn3088 🤣🤣🤣
Tell me you didn't watch the video without telling me 😆🤦
Well let us not forget we also have the right to assign and create meaning and purpose the idea of purpose and meaning are not the sole domain of spirituality, it's an ability we all have and human beings in search of human flourishing.