Dragons Frustrated Over Equity Negotiations | Dragons' Den
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- Опубликовано: 18 окт 2024
- Brothers Jim and Richard George are pitching their product that protects fencing posts from wearing out as easily. They're seeking an investment of £160,000 for 20% of their company, Post Saver. Although they have a proven track record, the Dragons become offended by the brother's negotiations...
Season 9, Episode 3
An international sensation, Dragon's Den features entrepreneurs pitching for investment in the Den from our Dragons, five venture capitalists willing to invest their own money in exchange for equity.
#DragonsDen #BusinessPitch #PostSaver
Considering these pitches are more than hour long. Fair play to the guy that held a big wooden post all the way through 😂😂
Best comment on here 😂
Did you come here looking for a fight?
The way Hilary and Duncan looked at each other when Deborah said she could add a ton of value. ☠️☠️
@@andymerrettoh wow. What a way to put it. R.I.P…..
Unless she just went blind….
😂😂
she brown bread what happens to her investments
If this was the Vampire Den, there would have been major panic in the studio.
most underrated comment
😂❤
Hillary would have gone through the anoos
:)
😂😂👏
They seemed to have no confidence in reaching the targets they proposed so correct to withdraw offers.
Exactly, because Deborah's offer was really fair.
You seem to not understand business and a forecast is just what it is, a educated never accurate guess of what could happen based on research or past performance . If every real investor had to hold their founders feet to the fire to make their projection, they would never invest. I know that because I work with a lot investors since I am an investment banker.
This is even worse for a new company. You never want an investor who doesnt believe in the business because all they become is a headache and a liability and the money is never worth it. they did the right thing and walked away.
So, while you think they are losing an investor, they are gaining a peace of mind and no money can buy a peace of mind!
I think they didn't want a offer just the advertising lol
No they didn’t why do you people always say this🤣🤣🤣
Spot on. Otherwise, it makes no sense.
Wow that one dude lost them the entire deal, the other guy was gonna take it aswell haha. This is definitely the worst decision I've seen in the den
The really dumb part is that he could've just said yes for TV and still had the chance to change his mind in the future during official negotiations after the show
Right?? That's what arrogance gets you.
They pulled their projections out of their arseholes.
Really? Why was it a bad decision? You seem to not realize that this is an entertainment show and 99% of the companies they invest in fails so they arent that good at what they claim to do even with the publicity they get on tv!
So, they arent missing anything!
Closed captioning is always doing Theos name dirty
Good to see the last 4 dragons not sitting on the fence when they decided not to budge on their 25%! 😅
They are called Richard George and Jim George, but halfway through the video the voiceover guy calls them Jim and George, then does it again at the end hahahahahaha
Why are they not pushing the fact that this product has far more applications than just fence posts , so much potential to expand
They just wanted the publicity, and proved they didn't believe their own projections....lost the deal for a 5% difference😂
They know it's a good product, know their business skills, and don't really need a dragon. They're thinking exit.
How does a dragon help to exit?
@@albula642 Only if the dragon's effort increases the company's value. That is why I don't think they need one and probably saved money by declining the offers.
Not really…they had so little belief in their business and projections that they knew they could never succeed with a dragon so they made excuses and fled
Their business skills? They definitely don't have negotiation skills
IDK if the product is good. Cold/ snow climates might be different but in Texas, pressure treated lumber does alright for most fences without this.
That was tough to watch! They did not want a deal.
A little foolhardy to refuse Deborah's offer. Shame.
who else is eating dinner?
Lunch 🤣
Me
Morrisons salad box meal deal 🍴👍
goodfellas pepperoni pizza
Me haha.
Free advertising was the goal here.
Company is still running and made £530k profit in 2022. Good on them for never taking the deal.
According to their website they’ve sold over 10,000,000 units worldwide.
The product isn't a miracle, it's just your regular heat shrink wrap?? Given, it is a novel use of it, but is there something special about this particular shrink wrap I'm missing?
Where I live, wooden fence posts generally last between 10-40 years. Longer if they are strainer posts with a concrete base. Not sure what swamp these guys got their example post from?? 😂
I know I was thinking its heat shrink for god sake, I use the same sort of stuff on electronics it's hardly a massive innovation. Put plastic around some wood.
That was a lot of money for a bit of heat shrink.
ya
It’s crap anyway, I’ve never seen one fencer buy it and I’m in the trade
Didn't believe their own projections.
I love it when the Dragons take it so personally over being rejected
I fenced my garden and my Mums field - pressure-treated posts and still up 20 years so far.
My thoughts exactly. Pressure treated lumber is used for most fences here in Texas and most last 15-20 years. Not sure about different climates though.
Be better to approach post manufacturers that can role the posts out already protected giving the manufacturer a unique sales point.
Creosote on fences works good enough.
so its big heatshrink? so someone else could make large heatshrink for "large electrical cables" which will also protect fence posts...
or buy a roll of cling film, wrap it round, heat it a little to seal it up and shrink it,
Cheaper and easier to paint with tar based paint
I was thinking this. But given both ends are still exposed to water etc, wouldn’t that just trap moisture? They weren’t asked for any evidence that it actually doubles the life??
Yes no evidence & how much extra cost? There were some missing questions this presentation..
I just kept thinking about why he was holding the log the whole time😂
The company and product are still going and gave great reviews.
if the dragons were concerned the duo had no confidence in meeting their targets after declining deborahs deal , why didnt they just state that before withdrawing their offers -just put that theory/assumption on the table and have a dialogue
If they had no confidence in them believing that they'd meet their targets, then the dragons would have no reason to believe further arguments presented.. Conversely, the network might have had all of the footage/time that they needed for this pitch by the end of it.
Actions speak louder than words.
@9:30 but I thought Deborah hates ratchet deals?
Long hot dry summer.... posts not rotting, farmers adding water around posts to stop shrinking soil....6 months with no sales...got enough in the bank... ?
Blimey, that's one of the quickest offers I've ever seen made in the Den
Editing.
Damn..These are old clips..
Yes, but this was a lucky escape for the brothers. They kept the equity and now supply to utility and fencing companies worldwide. They recently sold their 10 millionth product.
@@peterd788 where did you find this info?
Is pressure treated posts not a better solution? At least here in Texas they seem to last 10-20 years.
We invest in ideas and people. We have an idea but no people.
Peters quiet…
Why would they want an investor who has incentive to see the business succeed just below the targets?
The dragons are always so petty. Respect to the businessmen for sticking to their guns.
Why arent you up there doing it better then?
I respect people for sticking to their guns, but it's different when it's illogical. It's okay to aim high and expect to fall a little short on your your targets, but they had so little faith in their targets they didn't even expect to reach them with the help of a dragon...
@@nero3700 Agreed. They "strongly believe in their product" but not enough that they think they'll actually reach their targets.
The show has changed a lot since then
2% offers from the entrepreneurs are now the norm and dragons are a lot nicer
But the wood Will not dry indeneath the sleeve and Will rot anyway. I dont believe in the product.
Entrepreneurs: I’m looking for 10%
Dragons: We’re willing to share the equity at 20% each
They've now sold over 10 million of them.
To be fair I've seen a few buisness owners lose deals on here by being petty on percentages here i think it was the other way round.
This is not a unique product, it is literally just a heat shrink tube that has been used in High Voltage cable connections for years, these guys have just used it on a wooden post instead of a cable, 3M, Prysmian, Tyco to name a few all manufactured this type of tubing
And I'm George George, standing right By George.
Do they call their sons Boy George?
Shame, Jenny would have loved this one.
They usually hammer people for cost to produce product and what they sell for etc and then this episode, none of that was disclosed???
Net assets 2022 around 500k ; one year later around 300k.
You know at first I thought good for these 2. They held to their guns when they felt they were giving too much away but now I realised they were just pushing their luck actually. To recieve offers from 4 dragons and walk away with nothing is a real failure on their part.
They did well. The Dragons wanted the brothers to cave first, but they didn't. They have a good product and the Dragons wanted in, but they got too greedy
Why use crappy wooden posts when you can just use steel?
04:10 "We licensed that to a large German"
Who? Seargant Schultz?
Hello from across the pond
Why on earth would one require this product. All our posts here in New Zealand are tanalized.
Pressure treated timber uses chemicals and has a cost disadvantage. Their company has sold millions of these around the world so there's clearly a demand.
It's worth 10 million now
@@peterd788 But the wood Will never dry out under the sleeve. Therefore Will rot anyway. I dont believe in the product.
The so called investors didnt mention what they will add, how they will support product, they didnt look particularly excited by product. Good on guys. They look stuck up, they need to be replaced.
Dumb comment
That stumped them 😂
Stand your posts in a barrel of old engine oil for 3 days = same result.
They don't have a business.
You probably should have had a Google first - they’re still around and have sold over 10,000,000 units. 😂
I thought it was a good idea, but when they said they partnered with Network Rail I knew at least one dragon would jump on the deal
just paint with bitumen rubber £8 per can of 5ltr from diy shop paint with brush 🤓🤓🤓 any fence post 18 inch does same job before putting in ground doubles lifespan
and no blow torch needed
ummmmm....these have been selling in the US for a couple decades
the soil rots it a little but mainly its water getting to the wood and that plastic sleeve wont stop the water coming down the post so it wont work really
Who knows and fair enough. It's their decision. It's not like they can never get another investor ever now. It's still possible. I could see what they mean about that extra pressure. You want to enjoy what you're doing too. If they hit their targets two months later than projected, that's still successful, but then they'd lose 5% more of their business. Maybe they don't want that over their heads for years while they run their own business.
Where’s matey boy, Tookrr
Damn the dragons get so offended so quickly.
Also, Hillary forgot to bring her Dalmatians again.
$160k for a condom on a fence post and they lose it over 5%
This must take the award for the most awkward episode of all times
The right decision. Not poor
theo knows nothing about water and oxygen where they meet
Posts just need is creosote , just cover the post an it’ll survive for decades
Great loss of investment there
greed and arrogance
OMG lost all deals for 5%!!!
Notice how Evan Davis never wears a tie, that's because his 'suit' is actually a one piece garment that can be pulled off in one go. Not because he is Superman, it's just practical for his sudden urges when he wants to disrupt a pitch or give an entrepreneur an experience they'll never forget.
What kinda boloks comment is that lol
This is why the entrepreneurs are out of breath when they reach the Dragons, not because of the stairs but because they have gone through multiple rounds with Davis downstairs
11:23 Hillary's sentencing gets me wondering if I'm just not understanding the way things could be said there? Most of the dragons I understand pretty straightforward. But she says here at 11:23
- Now that can either make you a hundred thousand pound deal. Or lose it you."
My issue with this is that it sounds off to me. "Make you a hundred thousand pound deal OR LOSE IT YOU."
- I feel like it should be: "Now that can make you a hundred thousand pound deal, OR LOSE YOU IT."
Am I wrong on this? Does the sentence structure of: "or lose it you" not mean something different than: "Lose you it?"
Lose it you - not sure what this means, perhaps some idea that something is missing out on having you.
Lose you it - Clearly means this thing costs you the deal, or causes you to lose it.
This is something so small but nags at me so much. "Can either make you a hundred thousand pound deal, or lose it you." Just sounds so much to me like it should be: "Can either make you a hundred thousand pound deal, or lose you it."
Thank you all for your time. Maybe it's just a different way they say it? or maybe she is just rambling and knows what she wants to say but mixes up the order of the words at the end?
Shes a northern lass
Not heard of UC4 Treated posts or Creasote treated posts? No one outs untreated posts in the ground 😂
I bought this and used for a while. Was ribbish and didnt work
They screwed up
"Theo the foetus"
Pair of idiots really, they could have had their 25% if they hit the targets that THEY SAY they will hit,so they could have had the 25% they wanted ,it made no sense turning down that offer
The dragons are so childish and arrogant.
Its not even about the 5 percent its about the dragons ego which from the start they were being greedy and asking too much glad the dragons didn't get what they wanted.
Or… just get plastic/PVC posts… like I recently did. Thanks for the video.
They aren’t always aesthetically pleasing
Plastic fence posts lose their strength and fracture in hot countries and have a high carbon footprint.
A lot of people prefer the look and feel of wooden fence posts.
GET CONCRETE POSTS.
The wood would never dry underbetal the sleeve and Will rot away. I dont believe in the product.
Good for them....😊
pointless product when you can get creosote pressure treated posts that can last for 15-20 years for a bit extra.
expert over here
They did the right thing. They’re loaded now
Theoper fetus 😂 according to captions
First class ........post😂
Fish and chips for lunch today 👍
Greedy for money 💰 🤑 💸 😎 Deborah wanted 30%
Petty Deborah being her usual petty self
Funking posts !
It's their business and for Hilary to say I've lost confidence is a freaking joke.
I'm oat/ Duncan
I wouldn't have accepted any of those offers either.
the businessmen duo did not say anything wrong, they stated and stuck to their commitment of 25%, there track record is testament, which dragons believed and still doubted them. dragons i believe had their ego and greed that was very clear.
It shows though that they didn’t have full belief they would hit their targets. Would of been reduced to 25%
Greedy dragons.
they would not be multimillionaire Dragons - if they were not greedy..
Damn. Im find debbie to be quite annoying watching some of those old clips. She is a proper premadonna, I just watched the tangle teaser clip earlier/.
A pair of charlatans !! 😂😂
Who else is doing their makeup?
Illogical??? 😮😮 they are doing the right thing 👏 🙌
You are not very good at math
ouchie