FAQ: Does pushing harder/different change numbers? Not that we've seen in 76 runs. Also, tightening a bolt with a drill would not have done anything to measure the drill's torque capability, which is why we're not here. Do you want to see more SDS hammers dyno'd? What type? More SDS Max? SDS Plus? Home depot rentals? SDS has been added (for now) onto our air hammer ranking: etsy.me/3G8j3QK But can become its own category if grown. This is the best bang/buck .401" air hammer by our math: amzn.to/3ITtFoI
As a non-car worker, SDS is actually super important for me. I would love to see twisting torque and hand feel measured like you do with the impact wrenches!
great video. there are adapters to use sds hammers with a socket so maybe next time a torque test so you have hammer and you have torque numbers then you can realy compare sds hammers
It is nice to know that if you have a rotary hammer drill like the Milwaukee, you don’t have to go out an buy a pneumatic air hammer for a hammer job. It helps understanding where the tools stand in relation to each other when there is no real scientific comparison available. You guys are doing great work.
I had no idea that was how these worked. It seems to me that a cordless "air" hammer is actually an option. If Milwaukee were to remove all of the drilling parts they could easily slim this thing down and make it more practical and maybe more powerful.
In corded variations they exist, they are called chipping hammers or demo hammers. With hammer weights ranging from 11lb to 28lb. They are the little brothers to jackhammers and exist in atleast 4 sizes that I'm aware of, however none are as compact as a true air chisel or air hammer, instead they are much closer to the roto hammer demonstrated here. I would guess that is because of the addition of electric motor and battery dock.
I’d like too see a similar test with a 1” or 1-1/8” Sds plus . This was a awesome idea for a test I’ve never seen anything like it and always wondered . 👏
As a member of the red army who has both the sds-plus's, theres a massive difference between the 1" and 1-1/8" sds. The 1-1/8" will destroy any drill bit less than 3/8" diameter while the 1" will push a 3/16 bit all day or until you hit rebar.
would love to see more of these. Everything from the small standard system all the way to the big dog jack hammers. Keep holding the manufacturers honest.
He should test using a recip saw as a SDS. How many joules of impact energy does a recip saw has? A recip goes back and forth just like a SDS hammer or air hammer.
@@collinzeng9231 A recipe saw goes back and forth, it doesn't use instantaneous hammer blows. It would look like you're rowing a boat and just jiggling your body about.
At work, we've often taken a full SDS drill bit, cut off the end, add a slot and use it on the rotary hammer to drive cleats that join ductwork. It's loud, so very loud, but way easier than using my arms.
I've seen this debated on r/tools several times. Really good to have some dyno numbers on the subject! You guys rock! I agree that I didn't expect a hammer drill to be as powerful as an air hammer. Really impressive results all things considered. I wonder how my SDS+ hammer drill stacks up...
@2:19 - FYI Ft*lbs isn't only a unit of torque, it's also a unit of work (energy). For torque, the foot part of the unit is the distance from center that the force is applied, for work it's the distance that a force is applied over (if you push with a force of 5 lbs for a distance of 1 ft, you've done 5 ft*lbs of work).
The units are the same but they are entirely different measurements. One is a 'force' measurement, the other an energy measurement. In examples like this people often (understandably) assume that 1ft*lb = 1ft*lb, but no. Not when the vector of the two units is 90 degrees different. That vector is not included in the units and that change makes them entirely different and non-correlatable. Context matters.
@@knurlgnar24 the issue is that the units are not the same. Foot-pounds of torque are 1ft * 1lb of force. "Foot-pounds" of energy (also used for e.g. bullets) are foot-per-second (squared) pounds, or 1 lb * 1 (ft/s)^2.
@@justAnotherMike82 what wud you call noncommutative spinor? Professor Basil J. Hiley calls it a novel "force" that iis nonlocal - or novel "energy" - in reality it's neither and both as "active information!" thanks
Great idea of measuring the strikes of hammers! Finally something more than the Joule figures by the manufacturers. I would love to see all those categories compared now!
Historically, Hilti has prioritized durability and endurance, so it might not actually be more powerful. Also, $1100 for bare tool or kit? If it’s a kit, Makita’s XGT 80V rotary hammer kit goes for like $1500.
There are definitely much more powerful SDS-Max Hammer/Drills from the likes of Hilti, Makita, Bosch, and Metabo. They also offer chipping hammers only, wi the out the drill modes. Would love to see a separate comparison chart of all the SDS-Max hammer drills…as well as the SDS-Plus category. Would be a nice series of videos you can do. And there’s nothing online like it.
I’d love nothing more than a Project Farm review of SDS-Max Hammer Drills. I just doubt he’ll spend the money on all those top end drills, in particular Hilti or Metabo. He generally skips or avoids reviewing the pro level stuff, cause his channel is more geared towards regular consumers.
@@BigBear-- Makita, DeWalt, and Milwaukee being 'pro level stuff' kinda defeats your argument. With some exception, Project Farm generally runs entry level options from whichever brands he chooses, with some exception (such as using the Fuel multitool in that video).
@@reaperreaper5098 nah he does review some pro stuff, generally in smaller tool categories though. When he does an electric pressure washer comparison though, you won't see a Kranzle or Northern Tool model. Or if he does wet/dry vacs, you'll never see the high end options from Makita, Bosch, Festool, Ridgid, etc...that are like $450+ units. However if he reviews hammer drills, I wouldn't be surprised to see the top end Makita, DeWalt, and Milwaukee offerings. I sort of get it, but not really...I mean I don't think its a money issue, not now anyway. There's plenty of us buy once cry once DIY people out there, so it'll still be interesting, and he can always just break it down into categories like Value, Budget, and High End. The reason I even bring it up, is cause sometimes its worth spending triple on a much better tool, however thats not nearly always the case. Sometimes there's zero value in a much more expensive tool. So its not even like its always that more expensice wins, and that's what I want to know. When is it not worth spending more.
Yes, an SDS can do the job. I could not get the front wheel bearings off a 2006 Sierra with any of my air hammers. I spent at least 20 minutes on it before I got out my Makita HR4002 rotary hammer. In hammer only with a very dull bit, it took more time to run the extension cord than to get the first bearing off. The second one yielded even more quickly. There is a threshold that needs to be met, and this unit definitely passed it on that job. After getting the bearings out I spent another 30 minutes sweeping up half of the truck that landed on the floor in the form of rust. Frankly, I have not messed with the air hammers to much since, even the Thor, because the Makita or my Unitec 162/3 make short work of making things come apart, and the compressor is happier, too.
@@zachary3777 I have the Thor 498K. All I can say is that the Makita worked where the Thor and IRs failed. I tend to use the IR 114 if I am already using the air hose and if that is not enough I go for one of the electric ones, but for most things I use the battery powered stuff, so grabbing the hose or the extension cord is a wash. Since my construction tools are just on the other side of the room, I just go full nuke rather than waste any more time. The Thor is nice, but I have more bits and the scaler fits the IR, so the Thor is a toolbox queen.
@@kenchilton do you think it is noticeably stronger than a long stroke 401 gun like the IR 119max? There are a lot more 401 bits available so I am inclined to go that way, after looking at the specs. The cylinder bore on each is 3/4"
OMG ,,, I CAN'T BELIEVE A TOP RUclips CHANNEL ACTUALLY LISTENS TO THEIR FANS ,,,,, WE ASKED TO SEE THESE SDS HAMMERS TESTED AND THIS CHANNEL DID THAT AND MORE. PLEASE TAKE IT FROM US TTC IS THE GREATEST CHANNEL ON RUclips ... THEY ARE HONEST STRAIGHT FORWARD AND TO THE POINT WHAT ELSE COULD YOU WANT AND IT'S FREE ,,, THANK THE HAVENS FOR TTC !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My neighbor fashioned a "cup" or socket in lg. sds to drive copper ground rods in. Unless you hit a big rock, it's going in. If you hit a small rock it either displaces it or breaks it. I'm not surprised at the relative amount of chooch here.. Really neat tools.
Hey mate I'm interested in this "cup". Do you know if your neighbour has a public image or video of it? I'm so tired of driving the rods with a Sledge hammer 😅
@@wearsjorge55 Ground rod driver attachments are sold at home improvement stores, they work well. The SDS Max are significantly better than SDS+ if you happen to have generator available on site.
@@wearsjorge55 Well I asked him, and it was store bought from dewalt. I searched and sure enough, DW5947. It looked more "crude" than his other sds bits so I assumed it was hand made.
I’m glad there is a channel doing this test. I’ve been waiting for this type of video. And I’ve been eagerly awaiting these videos, ever since you mentioned it during the air hammer tests. I wanna see the Makita 18v tested. Thank you for finally being one of, if not the very First channel putting this content out here with complete honesty.
I’ve always wanted to be able to use an air hammer but I’m rarely near an air compressor that’s big enough to remove stuck brake rotors or push out axle shafts. I’d be curious to see if they have any compact versions. Maybe someday they will come out with a dedicated electric hammer version without the drilling function. Could be nice to also see the smaller Harbor Freight Chief air hammer which is only $40 at my local store. Good work!
@@lolatmyage And they are big and heavy because they are designed to be used in demolition of concrete structures not to loosen stuck rotors. So there is no direct electric alternative for air hammer targeted at car mechanics
@@mysterious_czrs Not really, the smaller ones weight less than 15 pounds and can be swung quite easily. Dull the bit and it will rattle a brake rotor just fine although yes, it might not be good for the tool or your hands if you're hitting an immovable object as I've found that this tool works nicest when it is making progress.
More SDS max please! I bought a corded, refurbished Bosch SDS Max rotary hammer for various work outdoors and it's been amazing. Breaking up concrete, drilling through concrete, breaking through very compacted clay spoil, packing soil in small areas, etc. All of the bits add up quickly but it's much less hassle than having to go rent tools, and it's really a big labor saver if you have dense clay soil.
i would actually love to see you do this with the smaller sds plus models such as the milwuakee the dewalt the bosch I would send you mine but i use it everyday for work basically
With the work I do, we use a rotory drill when we need to drill through concrete or brick and we use a bosh corded so I'd like to get a new cordless rotory drill and see which one is better
This channel is so great thank you all for the time, effort & dedication to produce the information. these type of tests help to keep manufactures true to their word & also will help squeeze out cruddy tools from the market place.
SDS Max and SDS Plus tests are awesome, the Milwaukee SDS Max that you were using is quite weak compared to the really big SDS Max Hammer Drills, like the Bosch GBH 8-45DV that has a cinetic impact energy of 12,5J which equals to around 9 to 10 ft-lb.
I have a few SDS Plus/Max tools and have routinely used the smaller ones in place of my old air hammer which has rarely been used in the last few years. With a ground rod driver attachment I’ve even rigged up a way to use my air hammer ends on the SDS drill. I use the SDS a lot in hammer only especially the smaller battery one as it is great for doing a lot from popping tile off a floor/wall to splitting nuts. Be nice to see an expansion into SDS as battery tools have replaced air to a great extent especially outside of auto shops. I have DeWalt as it was the brand I got into 20V/60V but they recently expanded their SDS lines to include 12V which is quite small; would be nice seeing how honest the companies are regarding the power of these rotary drills. If it’s anything like impact drivers there will be quite some fluff in the numbers.
Ft lbs is energy the SI version is Joules ( J ). Most SDS Plus here in the UK seem to be ~2J or ~8J with SDS Max 10J or ~20J. It would be nice to see a compact SDS Plus comparison some 12v tools are much closer in size to the air hammers.
Thank you! The Milwauke 2717 advertises 5.1 ft lbs of impact energy, which translates to 6.9 joules which is what we use in Europe. That's at 3000BPM. Over here, we get the FHM which is rated at 11 joules or 8.1 ft lbs which is quite a bit more, and that's 2900BPM. Either way that's a lot for an SDS. Your typical regular use one would be 2-3J but likely hit a bit faster.
Is there any chance the length of the bit used in the SDS was “flexing” some of the hammering power away? Just comparing with the very short length of the air hammers.
Love the mini lessons throughout your content. Y'all oughta be sponsored by Bush's or the like if you're going to have to engineer, design and build ways to test tools that tool manufacturers won't bother with, still completely unbiased. It'd be crazy cool to see a TTC rating on a box one day. 😊
Torque is measured in lb-ft being, (force over leverage/working length from center) . Force applied over area is measured in ft-lbs being, (force over area). It's a all too common a mistake to mix the too up that has been perpetuated for a long time. Hammering type tools should in fact be measured in ft-lbs over time, (work done over time=power) much like the relationship between torque and horsepower. Torque alone is kinda worthless, as is time. But together they are power. Thanks for all the hard work and time guys.
Very interesting video! Thanks for sharing this! Can't imagine lugging that SDS Rotary Hammer around under, or inside of, a car though. I think we're still a ways away from having anything electric that is close to a good air hammer's power to size/weight ratio.
I work with some people close to the power tool industry, and asked them about this. Apparently there is an EPTA Standard (European Power Tool Association) for how to measure Impact Energy in rotary hammers, which is why they all display a number on the box.
Great video, would love to see the results of the 2718 1 3/4 milwaukee. Its $1200 with two 12.0 batteries. It will drill a 5” hole through a 9” thick solid pored wall plus rebar. Its a beast!
I recently bought a corded rotary hammer for it's drilling function (that part is amazing!) I found this very interesting. I don't know if I'll ever use the rotary hammer as a straight hammer, as I have a couple of small pneumatic hammers, but it's nice to know that it might be useful in that role if I need a hammer far away from one of my compressors.
Man I wish I could send you my SDS max 60v dewalt hammer drill. I love this thing a lot and had used it as a mini jack hammer at times also did a lot of drilling but it a job tool and cant take it home lol. TBH I never stop to look to see how the internal worked I did not know that it uses a piston and vacuum to get the hammer function to work. Now I know why when I push too hard down on the tool I'm pushing the rod closer to the piston and shortening it travel and it felt weaker but when i let up it becomes stronger, but too light i barely feel the hammer function and makes a weird noise till I push a little harder. IF I don't put just the right amount of pressure it wont be at it max potential picky thing XD. It is fun to see you guys run test on any tools really!
The milwaukee super sawzall uses a 90* gear set and regular crank shaft arrangement. I know because I took one apart to model it and was disappointed it didnt have that fixed slotted cam thing at 3:47.
I would definitely like seeing more SDS hammers like the 60V Dewalt, not sure if they should go against air hammers due to completely different applications. I don't think any mechanics are using SDS hammers for stuck parts, but if you do more of these some construction guys would be interested for sure.
I forget the model but I've been using the Bosch. It def handles an 18" X 1 1/4" bit with no issue. I'd be lying if I said I didn't wanna play with milukees version though. I digress excellent and unique video. Very enjoyable thankyou guys for taking the time to make it. Hope the lawsuit bullshit is going away
You brought up a good point in the possible vertical advantage of the SDS due to the weight of the tool. Id be interested to find out if there are any gains in vertical vs horizontal. I feel like they could make a purpose built compact M12 hammer, I hope that that happens one day...
as an electrician, the sweet spot for SDS rotary hammers is when you push, you'll see the tool move in the chuck, you want to keep that half way: half in, half out... thats where your fastest and most effective blows are delivered pushing hard seemed to slow it down, but not as much as holding it lose, obviously lol
Very interesting stuff guys! I do rotary hammer testing on my channel but I've never used an air hammer before. Are they for knocking loose seized bolts? Your type of cumulative force measurement is definitely different to what you'd normally do to measure SDS hammers. Very cool crossover measurement.
Another vote for the smaller sizes- sds and sds+. More real world for us home gamers. Also, comparing battery to plug in for same range of sds/sds+ would fantastic too!
Nice to see there's some validity/utility to the hammering only of SDS rotary hammers .... would love to see how the Makita LXT versions and potentially the Makita's XGT demolition hammers compare.
I've always had the thought of why someone hasn't made portable "air" hammers so I just cut the end off of one of my old chisel sds bits and use that for a hammer bit.
I've used my SDS drills to hammer ball joints and pins and stuff out plenty of times in a pinch when having to repair a vehicle or trailer while out on the road. It usually works.
A long time ago, in a galaxy far far away... I worked in the rental department of a home depot and this kind of question came up a whole lot. Mind you, we only rented corded options and no air power or battery power options. And from the spec sheets that I could find on the corded options we rented, I found a comparably sized and weighted roto hammer vs chipping hammer, according to the spec sheet the roto hammer brought a bit more than half the foot lbs of a dedicated chipping hammer. Like an 11lb chipping hammer was rated for 10.4 f-lbs and the rotary hammer was only rated for 5.8 f-lbs. But I don't think that anyone makes a battery powered chipping hammer, just rotary hammers. This next part is just to file away for when you guys get to testing mammoth sized jackhammers and the such, I would love to see the numbers between an old pneumatic powered 80lb jackhammer vs the Bosch, Makita and Hilti options. Mind you, the big Hilti is only a 60lb hammer but they claim that it does more work vs a traditional 80 due to how the power is delivered and the BPM. When I rented them out, everyone who had rented both the Makita (traditional) and Hilti variations told me that the Hilti was the better option and this was across the board for vertical applications. (The 35lb Hilti was not meant for horizontal work, Makita came with a D handle so that you could). So that was the 28lb, 35lb and 80 (60 for Hilti) categories.
I'll send you my 36v Makita SDS Max. It has had 4 years of hard use drilling, chipping, and digging. I bet it will still hit harder than the Milwaukee.
Wow!!!! Was not expecting that. I was really expecting maybe 1/2 the power of the snap on. Pretty cool. Edit: I want to see more SDS drills tested. Maybe on their own rank chart.
I do use my Craftsman sds for an air hammer and was wondering how many beans it is tapping on.Works pretty good for flywheels coming off little small engines, really only used it for lawn tractor stuff so far hit a few rusty bolts and now wondering how I can get a socket to attach to it. Are you guys going to be testing anymore sds hammers? If so I wouldn't mind sending mine to you for testing, I think it's been used like 3-4 times so still brand new. One husky leaf blower flywheel, one rusted spindle bolt and rusty u bolt on the f1shitty to see if would work like an air hammer so I don't have to fill up the compressor. Would be pretty cool to see it get tested on your channel. Thanks for all the great content you guys create
Hopefully this isn't the only SDS stuff you do on the channel, I know there is some more compact SDS Plus hammers like the Ryobi P222 that I wonder about.
Beautiful, your channel is worth a watch every time you upload and this is no exception. This information will certainly be put to use, even if I am a measly electro-mechanical engineer (spanner twirling monkey for a sizeable company).
I think there is enough sds hammer drills to have it’s own class aside from air hammers. Maybe try some corded versions to see how well they compare to battery powered.
This was pretty cool to see, I never thought of using my sds in place of an air hammer. It would be cool to see how milwaukes bigger 1 3/4" sds max does for power on your dyno.
I've never considered getting a hammer drill, and never knew there was a difference between a hammer drill and an SDS (Special or Slotted Drive System, depending on branding) Rotary hammer drill. But, this video prompted my curiosity and now I'm learned up a bit after some internet exploring. Now I kinda want one. (of both)
Great branch of tools to test I would love to see the new makita 40v x2 80volt Xgt sds max hammer tested to see if it’s in the same ballpark. Keep up the good work.
At work we sometimes use our milwaukee sds plus when we don't have a hammer at hand, or when we need the rapid hammering of the sds. Glad to see it finally tested! And yes, I would love to see more sds plus/max reviews, like the other milwaukees, bosch, dewalt, and comparing battery powered vs cordless (milwaukee in particular, they make an almost identical hammer drill, but corded). They also make a model that is strictly hammer, no rotation, so I'm interested to see if that's any different internally or just milwaukee disabling features. And I know you say a drill can't be measured like an impact, but could you put an sds on the impact dyno anyways, to see if it can compare?
I would love to see how different sizes stack up. I bought the smallest one for tile removal at HarborFreight but doesn’t seem to work well for concrete.
Makita does an XGT SDS Max drill, in the UK its the HR006GZ. It says it can do a max of 21.4 J, which is more than the Milwaukee from what i can tell. It would be cool to see that one tested to see how powerful it is, even if it would be impractical for mechanics, etc.
Does the weight of the impacting "bit" make any difference? It was found that heavier impact sockets lead to better results, I wonder if that's a factor here too?
Could you come up with some kind of engine dyno or potentially Alternator / Generator of some kind to be able to Dyno the Drill part of the drill? Same thing could also used for standard drills.
We want to see more legit tools tested from impacts to what ever you can afford. Would be greatly appreciated if you can take some apart and sacrifice them for science and our viewing pleasure.
Man...where was this a few years back before I bought an air compressor because I needed an air hammer and couldn't find any information on rotary hamer drills as a substitute. One of the few tools still requiring an air compressor....
was using a Hilti TE-1000 (40lb electric breaker) this week at work to get out a siezed 3" pin. Was more just to shock the pin as I had a 22T bottle jack pushing it out, but it wouldn't have been coming out otherwise. I still had the TE-2000 and TE-3000 (55lb and 70lb) breakers if i needed more jam, but that would have been a quite awkward one person balancing act. These are all electric plug in models, so I don't know if they would be a fair fit in the rankings.
FAQ: Does pushing harder/different change numbers? Not that we've seen in 76 runs. Also, tightening a bolt with a drill would not have done anything to measure the drill's torque capability, which is why we're not here. Do you want to see more SDS hammers dyno'd? What type? More SDS Max? SDS Plus? Home depot rentals? SDS has been added (for now) onto our air hammer ranking: etsy.me/3G8j3QK But can become its own category if grown. This is the best bang/buck .401" air hammer by our math: amzn.to/3ITtFoI
Can you guys try the Ridgid R86711B if you do another video? Thanks for all the great work/content!
Dewalt dch133
As a non-car worker, SDS is actually super important for me. I would love to see twisting torque and hand feel measured like you do with the impact wrenches!
Some of the smaller SDS plus tools would be nice, since size and weight wise they might compare better with air hammers.
great video. there are adapters to use sds hammers with a socket so maybe next time a torque test so you have hammer and you have torque numbers then you can realy compare sds hammers
It is nice to know that if you have a rotary hammer drill like the Milwaukee, you don’t have to go out an buy a pneumatic air hammer for a hammer job. It helps understanding where the tools stand in relation to each other when there is no real scientific comparison available. You guys are doing great work.
Your blowing new doors open on information never relisted before. Excellent channel and work to inform us tool owners. Thank You!
I had no idea that was how these worked. It seems to me that a cordless "air" hammer is actually an option. If Milwaukee were to remove all of the drilling parts they could easily slim this thing down and make it more practical and maybe more powerful.
In corded variations they exist, they are called chipping hammers or demo hammers. With hammer weights ranging from 11lb to 28lb.
They are the little brothers to jackhammers and exist in atleast 4 sizes that I'm aware of, however none are as compact as a true air chisel or air hammer, instead they are much closer to the roto hammer demonstrated here.
I would guess that is because of the addition of electric motor and battery dock.
@@lightjedi6 company’s will find a way to make one. thier just has to be a demand for that. i saw a few years thier will be a electric air hammer
I'd love to see a m18 needle gun some day.
@@lightjedi6 yes there a pain to run all day busting out refractory.
They already make electric demo hammers. I prefer to have the rotary hammer with hammer option for what I do with it.
I’d like too see a similar test with a 1” or 1-1/8” Sds plus . This was a awesome idea for a test I’ve never seen anything like it and always wondered . 👏
Id like to see the sds plus too.
Yes, a 1” and 1-1/18 SDS would be ideal, this is the most common size used for most installations, it’s what I have.
A top of line SDS+ is rated for about 2.4 ft.lb, as oppose to 5 of this SDS max. So I'd expect it to perform about half as well.
D handle corded vs cordless?
As a member of the red army who has both the sds-plus's, theres a massive difference between the 1" and 1-1/8" sds. The 1-1/8" will destroy any drill bit less than 3/8" diameter while the 1" will push a 3/16 bit all day or until you hit rebar.
would love to see more of these. Everything from the small standard system all the way to the big dog jack hammers. Keep holding the manufacturers honest.
I want to see some of the compact SDS stuff like that DW Atomic.
He should test using a recip saw as a SDS. How many joules of impact energy does a recip saw has? A recip goes back and forth just like a SDS hammer or air hammer.
@@collinzeng9231 A recipe saw goes back and forth, it doesn't use instantaneous hammer blows. It would look like you're rowing a boat and just jiggling your body about.
@Collin Zeng it would be a great idea since most people would have the recip over an sds
Including their 12V Extreme SDS.
The atomic doesn't even have hammer only mode
At work, we've often taken a full SDS drill bit, cut off the end, add a slot and use it on the rotary hammer to drive cleats that join ductwork. It's loud, so very loud, but way easier than using my arms.
Love the sds added to the testing. I've used my sds as an air hammer when air wasn't available and was pleasantly surprised
I've seen this debated on r/tools several times. Really good to have some dyno numbers on the subject! You guys rock!
I agree that I didn't expect a hammer drill to be as powerful as an air hammer. Really impressive results all things considered. I wonder how my SDS+ hammer drill stacks up...
YESSS. I asked for this specifically and you delivered. My dudes...
I've got and old corded MacAlister sds rotary I bought about 10 years ago. Abused it to death and it's still a beast.
@2:19 - FYI Ft*lbs isn't only a unit of torque, it's also a unit of work (energy). For torque, the foot part of the unit is the distance from center that the force is applied, for work it's the distance that a force is applied over (if you push with a force of 5 lbs for a distance of 1 ft, you've done 5 ft*lbs of work).
The units are the same but they are entirely different measurements. One is a 'force' measurement, the other an energy measurement. In examples like this people often (understandably) assume that 1ft*lb = 1ft*lb, but no. Not when the vector of the two units is 90 degrees different. That vector is not included in the units and that change makes them entirely different and non-correlatable. Context matters.
@@knurlgnar24 the issue is that the units are not the same. Foot-pounds of torque are 1ft * 1lb of force. "Foot-pounds" of energy (also used for e.g. bullets) are foot-per-second (squared) pounds, or 1 lb * 1 (ft/s)^2.
the physics explanation is that torque is a cross-product (and a vector quantity) while energy is a dot product (and a scalar quantity)
@@justAnotherMike82 what wud you call noncommutative spinor? Professor Basil J. Hiley calls it a novel "force" that iis nonlocal - or novel "energy" - in reality it's neither and both as "active information!" thanks
We use sds rotohammers all the time for foundation work and always wondered how they work and how hard they hit,awesome video y'all!
Great idea of measuring the strikes of hammers!
Finally something more than the Joule figures by the manufacturers.
I would love to see all those categories compared now!
i'd love to see the Hilti Cordless SDS Max tested. theyre probably most expensive in class at around $1,100. does that equal more better
Equals more better warranty at very least lol 😂
I'd put my bottom dollar on betting they're the best
Hilti... Probably not. They are in it for the money.
For $415 U can get the Metabo HPT 36V SDS MAX Rotary which can go all day with it's AC adapter and lifetime warranty
Historically, Hilti has prioritized durability and endurance, so it might not actually be more powerful.
Also, $1100 for bare tool or kit? If it’s a kit, Makita’s XGT 80V rotary hammer kit goes for like $1500.
I regularly use a Hilti TE-70 in the shop to hammer out bearings. Works awesome, doesn't bounce and skate around as much as my .498 hammer.
My favorite channel on RUclips 😊
Definitely one of the most consistent when it comes to quality
@@LIKEcommentANDsubscribe absolutely agree
There are definitely much more powerful SDS-Max Hammer/Drills from the likes of Hilti, Makita, Bosch, and Metabo. They also offer chipping hammers only, wi the out the drill modes. Would love to see a separate comparison chart of all the SDS-Max hammer drills…as well as the SDS-Plus category. Would be a nice series of videos you can do. And there’s nothing online like it.
Seems like a job for project farm
I’d love nothing more than a Project Farm review of SDS-Max Hammer Drills. I just doubt he’ll spend the money on all those top end drills, in particular Hilti or Metabo. He generally skips or avoids reviewing the pro level stuff, cause his channel is more geared towards regular consumers.
@@BigBear-- just regular SDS stuff
@@BigBear-- Makita, DeWalt, and Milwaukee being 'pro level stuff' kinda defeats your argument.
With some exception, Project Farm generally runs entry level options from whichever brands he chooses, with some exception (such as using the Fuel multitool in that video).
@@reaperreaper5098 nah he does review some pro stuff, generally in smaller tool categories though. When he does an electric pressure washer comparison though, you won't see a Kranzle or Northern Tool model. Or if he does wet/dry vacs, you'll never see the high end options from Makita, Bosch, Festool, Ridgid, etc...that are like $450+ units. However if he reviews hammer drills, I wouldn't be surprised to see the top end Makita, DeWalt, and Milwaukee offerings. I sort of get it, but not really...I mean I don't think its a money issue, not now anyway. There's plenty of us buy once cry once DIY people out there, so it'll still be interesting, and he can always just break it down into categories like Value, Budget, and High End.
The reason I even bring it up, is cause sometimes its worth spending triple on a much better tool, however thats not nearly always the case. Sometimes there's zero value in a much more expensive tool. So its not even like its always that more expensice wins, and that's what I want to know. When is it not worth spending more.
I’d like to see some corded SDS drills in hammer only mode on here.
This. I am late to the video but air is tethered - would be nice to compare with tethered (plug in) SDS hammer drills for comparison.
Yes, an SDS can do the job. I could not get the front wheel bearings off a 2006 Sierra with any of my air hammers. I spent at least 20 minutes on it before I got out my Makita HR4002 rotary hammer. In hammer only with a very dull bit, it took more time to run the extension cord than to get the first bearing off. The second one yielded even more quickly. There is a threshold that needs to be met, and this unit definitely passed it on that job. After getting the bearings out I spent another 30 minutes sweeping up half of the truck that landed on the floor in the form of rust. Frankly, I have not messed with the air hammers to much since, even the Thor, because the Makita or my Unitec 162/3 make short work of making things come apart, and the compressor is happier, too.
You have a thor 498k? I have been looking for one but no one had it. Is it weaker than the makita?
@@zachary3777 I have the Thor 498K. All I can say is that the Makita worked where the Thor and IRs failed. I tend to use the IR 114 if I am already using the air hose and if that is not enough I go for one of the electric ones, but for most things I use the battery powered stuff, so grabbing the hose or the extension cord is a wash. Since my construction tools are just on the other side of the room, I just go full nuke rather than waste any more time. The Thor is nice, but I have more bits and the scaler fits the IR, so the Thor is a toolbox queen.
@@kenchilton do you think it is noticeably stronger than a long stroke 401 gun like the IR 119max? There are a lot more 401 bits available so I am inclined to go that way, after looking at the specs. The cylinder bore on each is 3/4"
Wow just used both on my car yesterday and was wondering how it stacked up! Awesome to see
OMG ,,, I CAN'T BELIEVE A TOP RUclips CHANNEL ACTUALLY LISTENS TO THEIR FANS ,,,,, WE ASKED TO SEE THESE SDS HAMMERS TESTED AND THIS CHANNEL DID THAT AND MORE. PLEASE TAKE IT FROM US TTC IS THE GREATEST CHANNEL ON RUclips ... THEY ARE HONEST STRAIGHT FORWARD AND TO THE POINT WHAT ELSE COULD YOU WANT AND IT'S FREE ,,, THANK THE HAVENS FOR TTC !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Great video. I like that you showed us how they work rather than just showing the results.
This was a fantastic video from start to finish. Thanks for doing it! I wonder how 110v AC compares to the battery powered beans 🤔
My neighbor fashioned a "cup" or socket in lg. sds to drive copper ground rods in. Unless you hit a big rock, it's going in. If you hit a small rock it either displaces it or breaks it. I'm not surprised at the relative amount of chooch here.. Really neat tools.
Hey mate I'm interested in this "cup". Do you know if your neighbour has a public image or video of it? I'm so tired of driving the rods with a Sledge hammer 😅
@@wearsjorge55 Ground rod driver attachments are sold at home improvement stores, they work well. The SDS Max are significantly better than SDS+ if you happen to have generator available on site.
@@wearsjorge55 Well I asked him, and it was store bought from dewalt. I searched and sure enough, DW5947. It looked more "crude" than his other sds bits so I assumed it was hand made.
@@Little_bane thank you!
@@mattfleming86 cheers mate really appreciate it
I’m glad there is a channel doing this test. I’ve been waiting for this type of video. And I’ve been eagerly awaiting these videos, ever since you mentioned it during the air hammer tests. I wanna see the Makita 18v tested. Thank you for finally being one of, if not the very First channel putting this content out here with complete honesty.
I’ve always wanted to be able to use an air hammer but I’m rarely near an air compressor that’s big enough to remove stuck brake rotors or push out axle shafts. I’d be curious to see if they have any compact versions. Maybe someday they will come out with a dedicated electric hammer version without the drilling function. Could be nice to also see the smaller Harbor Freight Chief air hammer which is only $40 at my local store. Good work!
There are plenty of hammer-only tools but many are corded
@@lolatmyage And they are big and heavy because they are designed to be used in demolition of concrete structures not to loosen stuck rotors. So there is no direct electric alternative for air hammer targeted at car mechanics
@@mysterious_czrs Not really, the smaller ones weight less than 15 pounds and can be swung quite easily. Dull the bit and it will rattle a brake rotor just fine although yes, it might not be good for the tool or your hands if you're hitting an immovable object as I've found that this tool works nicest when it is making progress.
What about a palm nailer?
Interesting question!@@fnnsjsnnejejdndnxhxjna
Brilliant explanation keep that way many tanks 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
More SDS max please! I bought a corded, refurbished Bosch SDS Max rotary hammer for various work outdoors and it's been amazing. Breaking up concrete, drilling through concrete, breaking through very compacted clay spoil, packing soil in small areas, etc.
All of the bits add up quickly but it's much less hassle than having to go rent tools, and it's really a big labor saver if you have dense clay soil.
Good test my cheap rotary hammer saved me as a backup airhammer when doing an exhaust at home worked great
i would actually love to see you do this with the smaller sds plus models such as the milwuakee the dewalt the bosch I would send you mine but i use it everyday for work basically
Really loving the channel, appreciate the work you guys are putting in!
With the work I do, we use a rotory drill when we need to drill through concrete or brick and we use a bosh corded so I'd like to get a new cordless rotory drill and see which one is better
Yes more tests please ! Would like to see the Dewalt line of SDS drills. I have a DCH 133 I can send you to test.
Would love to see more realistically sized sds drills for use in a home shop
i wonder how sds chipping hammers would compare since they are just rotary hammers drills that dont rotate
This channel is so great thank you all for the time, effort & dedication to produce the information. these type of tests help to keep manufactures true to their word & also will help squeeze out cruddy tools from the market place.
SDS Max and SDS Plus tests are awesome, the Milwaukee SDS Max that you were using is quite weak compared to the really big SDS Max Hammer Drills, like the Bosch GBH 8-45DV that has a cinetic impact energy of 12,5J which equals to around 9 to 10 ft-lb.
I have a few SDS Plus/Max tools and have routinely used the smaller ones in place of my old air hammer which has rarely been used in the last few years. With a ground rod driver attachment I’ve even rigged up a way to use my air hammer ends on the SDS drill. I use the SDS a lot in hammer only especially the smaller battery one as it is great for doing a lot from popping tile off a floor/wall to splitting nuts.
Be nice to see an expansion into SDS as battery tools have replaced air to a great extent especially outside of auto shops. I have DeWalt as it was the brand I got into 20V/60V but they recently expanded their SDS lines to include 12V which is quite small; would be nice seeing how honest the companies are regarding the power of these rotary drills. If it’s anything like impact drivers there will be quite some fluff in the numbers.
Ft lbs is energy the SI version is Joules ( J ).
Most SDS Plus here in the UK seem to be ~2J or ~8J with SDS Max 10J or ~20J.
It would be nice to see a compact SDS Plus comparison some 12v tools are much closer in size to the air hammers.
I've Joules used in advertisements of these.
Thank you!
The Milwauke 2717 advertises 5.1 ft lbs of impact energy, which translates to 6.9 joules which is what we use in Europe. That's at 3000BPM.
Over here, we get the FHM which is rated at 11 joules or 8.1 ft lbs which is quite a bit more, and that's 2900BPM.
Either way that's a lot for an SDS. Your typical regular use one would be 2-3J but likely hit a bit faster.
Is there any chance the length of the bit used in the SDS was “flexing” some of the hammering power away? Just comparing with the very short length of the air hammers.
Love the mini lessons throughout your content. Y'all oughta be sponsored by Bush's or the like if you're going to have to engineer, design and build ways to test tools that tool manufacturers won't bother with, still completely unbiased. It'd be crazy cool to see a TTC rating on a box one day. 😊
man you do a great job on this channel with your testing...
Super excited about this. I was trying to compare sds drills last week and came up with a nebulous guess as to what would be most powerful.
I do use a dewalt sds hammer drill for drilling and mechanic work. It’s a pretty good option to keeping a air hammer and air compressor around.
Torque is measured in lb-ft being, (force over leverage/working length from center) . Force applied over area is measured in ft-lbs being, (force over area). It's a all too common a mistake to mix the too up that has been perpetuated for a long time. Hammering type tools should in fact be measured in ft-lbs over time, (work done over time=power) much like the relationship between torque and horsepower. Torque alone is kinda worthless, as is time. But together they are power. Thanks for all the hard work and time guys.
Ho do you not have 1 million subs? incredibly comprehensive videos.
Very interesting video! Thanks for sharing this! Can't imagine lugging that SDS Rotary Hammer around under, or inside of, a car though. I think we're still a ways away from having anything electric that is close to a good air hammer's power to size/weight ratio.
Very nice work! Very helpful illustrations! Well employed
I work with some people close to the power tool industry, and asked them about this. Apparently there is an EPTA Standard (European Power Tool Association) for how to measure Impact Energy in rotary hammers, which is why they all display a number on the box.
Can you test knee pads? Which last the longest, most comfortable/padding, least amount of friction when sliding around?
I was wanting to know about this because I don't have a big enough air compressor for an air hammer thanks
Great video, would love to see the results of the 2718 1 3/4 milwaukee. Its $1200 with two 12.0 batteries. It will drill a 5” hole through a 9” thick solid pored wall plus rebar. Its a beast!
I recently bought a corded rotary hammer for it's drilling function (that part is amazing!) I found this very interesting. I don't know if I'll ever use the rotary hammer as a straight hammer, as I have a couple of small pneumatic hammers, but it's nice to know that it might be useful in that role if I need a hammer far away from one of my compressors.
Man I wish I could send you my SDS max 60v dewalt hammer drill. I love this thing a lot and had used it as a mini jack hammer at times also did a lot of drilling but it a job tool and cant take it home lol. TBH I never stop to look to see how the internal worked I did not know that it uses a piston and vacuum to get the hammer function to work. Now I know why when I push too hard down on the tool I'm pushing the rod closer to the piston and shortening it travel and it felt weaker but when i let up it becomes stronger, but too light i barely feel the hammer function and makes a weird noise till I push a little harder. IF I don't put just the right amount of pressure it wont be at it max potential picky thing XD. It is fun to see you guys run test on any tools really!
The milwaukee super sawzall uses a 90* gear set and regular crank shaft arrangement. I know because I took one apart to model it and was disappointed it didnt have that fixed slotted cam thing at 3:47.
Very true, not all of them are this way
I would definitely like seeing more SDS hammers like the 60V Dewalt, not sure if they should go against air hammers due to completely different applications. I don't think any mechanics are using SDS hammers for stuck parts, but if you do more of these some construction guys would be interested for sure.
I forget the model but I've been using the Bosch. It def handles an 18" X 1 1/4" bit with no issue. I'd be lying if I said I didn't wanna play with milukees version though. I digress excellent and unique video. Very enjoyable thankyou guys for taking the time to make it. Hope the lawsuit bullshit is going away
You brought up a good point in the possible vertical advantage of the SDS due to the weight of the tool. Id be interested to find out if there are any gains in vertical vs horizontal. I feel like they could make a purpose built compact M12 hammer, I hope that that happens one day...
They have one
as an electrician, the sweet spot for SDS rotary hammers is when you push, you'll see the tool move in the chuck, you want to keep that half way: half in, half out... thats where your fastest and most effective blows are delivered
pushing hard seemed to slow it down, but not as much as holding it lose, obviously lol
Very interesting stuff guys! I do rotary hammer testing on my channel but I've never used an air hammer before. Are they for knocking loose seized bolts? Your type of cumulative force measurement is definitely different to what you'd normally do to measure SDS hammers. Very cool crossover measurement.
Hey yeah! Ball joints, rusted car parts. Brake rotors. Stuff like that
These hammer drills need their own category.
I used my Bosch 2" SDS when the mini sludge wouldn't cut it,
Was amazed how hard it hit compared to the air hammers I was used to
Another vote for the smaller sizes- sds and sds+. More real world for us home gamers. Also, comparing battery to plug in for same range of sds/sds+ would fantastic too!
Nice to see there's some validity/utility to the hammering only of SDS rotary hammers .... would love to see how the Makita LXT versions and potentially the Makita's XGT demolition hammers compare.
Milwaukee makes an m12 palm nail hammer thing used in framing. They should scale it up to an m18 and make it into a cordless "air" hammer.
I've always had the thought of why someone hasn't made portable "air" hammers so I just cut the end off of one of my old chisel sds bits and use that for a hammer bit.
I've used my SDS drills to hammer ball joints and pins and stuff out plenty of times in a pinch when having to repair a vehicle or trailer while out on the road. It usually works.
This was a very interesting video. I didn't expect it to be that high. I hear batter power hammers are in the works.
A long time ago, in a galaxy far far away... I worked in the rental department of a home depot and this kind of question came up a whole lot.
Mind you, we only rented corded options and no air power or battery power options.
And from the spec sheets that I could find on the corded options we rented, I found a comparably sized and weighted roto hammer vs chipping hammer, according to the spec sheet the roto hammer brought a bit more than half the foot lbs of a dedicated chipping hammer. Like an 11lb chipping hammer was rated for 10.4 f-lbs and the rotary hammer was only rated for 5.8 f-lbs.
But I don't think that anyone makes a battery powered chipping hammer, just rotary hammers.
This next part is just to file away for when you guys get to testing mammoth sized jackhammers and the such, I would love to see the numbers between an old pneumatic powered 80lb jackhammer vs the Bosch, Makita and Hilti options.
Mind you, the big Hilti is only a 60lb hammer but they claim that it does more work vs a traditional 80 due to how the power is delivered and the BPM.
When I rented them out, everyone who had rented both the Makita (traditional) and Hilti variations told me that the Hilti was the better option and this was across the board for vertical applications. (The 35lb Hilti was not meant for horizontal work, Makita came with a D handle so that you could).
So that was the 28lb, 35lb and 80 (60 for Hilti) categories.
So happy to see Uncle Bumble F*¢k get some representation. Been following him for years! And you guys since your first couple of videos.
I'll send you my 36v Makita SDS Max. It has had 4 years of hard use drilling, chipping, and digging. I bet it will still hit harder than the Milwaukee.
Wow!!!! Was not expecting that. I was really expecting maybe 1/2 the power of the snap on. Pretty cool.
Edit: I want to see more SDS drills tested. Maybe on their own rank chart.
I do use my Craftsman sds for an air hammer and was wondering how many beans it is tapping on.Works pretty good for flywheels coming off little small engines, really only used it for lawn tractor stuff so far hit a few rusty bolts and now wondering how I can get a socket to attach to it. Are you guys going to be testing anymore sds hammers? If so I wouldn't mind sending mine to you for testing, I think it's been used like 3-4 times so still brand new. One husky leaf blower flywheel, one rusted spindle bolt and rusty u bolt on the f1shitty to see if would work like an air hammer so I don't have to fill up the compressor. Would be pretty cool to see it get tested on your channel. Thanks for all the great content you guys create
Hopefully this isn't the only SDS stuff you do on the channel, I know there is some more compact SDS Plus hammers like the Ryobi P222 that I wonder about.
Beautiful, your channel is worth a watch every time you upload and this is no exception. This information will certainly be put to use, even if I am a measly electro-mechanical engineer (spanner twirling monkey for a sizeable company).
I loved your description of the work you do, same job here, I’ll have to steal that line if you don’t mind.
@@truthserum9157 Probably not even mine in the first place hahaha. Take care, mate 👍
I think there is enough sds hammer drills to have it’s own class aside from air hammers. Maybe try some corded versions to see how well they compare to battery powered.
This was pretty cool to see, I never thought of using my sds in place of an air hammer. It would be cool to see how milwaukes bigger 1 3/4" sds max does for power on your dyno.
I've never considered getting a hammer drill, and never knew there was a difference between a hammer drill and an SDS (Special or Slotted Drive System, depending on branding) Rotary hammer drill. But, this video prompted my curiosity and now I'm learned up a bit after some internet exploring.
Now I kinda want one. (of both)
This was great, would definitely like to see more sds max and sds plus tools
I've seen the palm nailer used with air chisel bits wonder how it would stack up might be a little more practical size and money wise
Great branch of tools to test I would love to see the new makita 40v x2 80volt Xgt sds max hammer tested to see if it’s in the same ballpark. Keep up the good work.
At work we sometimes use our milwaukee sds plus when we don't have a hammer at hand, or when we need the rapid hammering of the sds. Glad to see it finally tested!
And yes, I would love to see more sds plus/max reviews, like the other milwaukees, bosch, dewalt, and comparing battery powered vs cordless (milwaukee in particular, they make an almost identical hammer drill, but corded).
They also make a model that is strictly hammer, no rotation, so I'm interested to see if that's any different internally or just milwaukee disabling features.
And I know you say a drill can't be measured like an impact, but could you put an sds on the impact dyno anyways, to see if it can compare?
Well, not being a mechanic, I’ve never heard of air hammers. But have been using SDS drills to do those tasks for years! Go figure. Thanks!
Love for u to test the Metabo HPT SDS Max 36V as it also can be plugged in, which I do when ai have longer jobs-I don't feel much if any difference
I would love to see how different sizes stack up. I bought the smallest one for tile removal at HarborFreight but doesn’t seem to work well for concrete.
Makita does an XGT SDS Max drill, in the UK its the HR006GZ. It says it can do a max of 21.4 J, which is more than the Milwaukee from what i can tell.
It would be cool to see that one tested to see how powerful it is, even if it would be impractical for mechanics, etc.
Does the weight of the impacting "bit" make any difference? It was found that heavier impact sockets lead to better results, I wonder if that's a factor here too?
Try a Metabo HPT/ Hikoki
Is .498 shank air hammers in the works? Love your guys channel
100%
Could you come up with some kind of engine dyno or potentially Alternator / Generator of some kind to be able to Dyno the Drill part of the drill? Same thing could also used for standard drills.
As an owner of that same long nose snap on air Hammer. It's an absolute beast.
We want to see more legit tools tested from impacts to what ever you can afford. Would be greatly appreciated if you can take some apart and sacrifice them for science and our viewing pleasure.
Ave gives some awesome tool science
These guys have a whole channel dedicated go testing and taking apart impacts. Browse through their videos and you'll see.
You need to check out AvE on RUclips
@@bensmith6051 I had seen all test reviews by Ave but in recent times his not doing it with regular update of ttc
Nah, do what they shine at, which is scientific performance testing, then ship the tested tools to AvE for proper tear down and hilarious commentary.
Man...where was this a few years back before I bought an air compressor because I needed an air hammer and couldn't find any information on rotary hamer drills as a substitute. One of the few tools still requiring an air compressor....
was using a Hilti TE-1000 (40lb electric breaker) this week at work to get out a siezed 3" pin. Was more just to shock the pin as I had a 22T bottle jack pushing it out, but it wouldn't have been coming out otherwise. I still had the TE-2000 and TE-3000 (55lb and 70lb) breakers if i needed more jam, but that would have been a quite awkward one person balancing act. These are all electric plug in models, so I don't know if they would be a fair fit in the rankings.
Yes more please, like bigger sds , and also compact like Dewalt 12volt and the smaller 20volt
Yes, please compare cordless sds plus/max and budget corded sds max!
Hi Torque Test Channel I would like to see you guys test the biggest harbor freight tools corded hammer drill with the exact same test in this video