MAAT FiDef Analog Magic Sauce for Mixing and Mastering
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 13 сен 2024
- Critically acclaimed jazz and prog rock mixing and mastering engineer Mark Wingfield demonstrates audio examples of MAAT’s FiDef JENtwo on a jazz track on the mix bus.
Mark has mixed or mastered three Downbeat Magazine Masterpiece Albums of the Year, two JazzWise Best Releases of the Year and three All About Jazz Best Albums of the Year. Jazz albums he has mixed or mastered have received more than 300 rave reviews worldwide. Mark mixes and masters at his UK based Heron Island Studio.
If you are interested in working with Mark on your next album you can contact him here:
heronislandstudio.co.uk
This plugin made me develop a new style of dancing before even realizing I was moving. After bypassing I couldn't even imitate the dance if I wanted to. Turned the plugin back on and my body instantly started moving for me. Tons of fun!
Wow that is amazing. How cool is that haha. I was kinda swaying away with my headphones on sitting here alone. I probably look funny haha. doesnt it make you feel dreamy though. Its like my pineal gland and round my eyes feel like they are buzzing.
Wow those vocals are so beautiful already but the plug in makes them soooo dreamy. I feel so relaxed and at peace. The tests to show what the plug in was actually doin were really interesting too and very helpful. Great tutorial. Thank you very much ❤🙏
I cant describe it but to my ears it seems to glue the mix and add some warmth and harmonics kind of like the magic the sonnox inflator does. The mix sounds very analog imo with it enabled
Good review thank you. You are right, it is after you turn FiDeff off that you really notice the difference. That's when I felt compelled to purchase it.
Adds dimensionality to the vocal, you can hear it clearly! I use Fabfilter Saturn 2, Magic 3D preset for that same type of effect.
just checked that preset out today and thought of this video here :D
wow that is very interesting, i checked it out myself:
There is alot of masking going on that you can actually hear if you focus on it. The sound of a mix is getting diffuse like Phil Spectors wall of sound - but the important things like a lot of transients come through very musically.
You hear an undefined shape of sound under a very defind structure of transients, that is what you hear if you focus on it....
But if you dont focus on it, the result is, that you think you hear more details. But in fact your hear less. But due to less information overload = less details your basalganglia of the brain has to filter out the most important information, it sounds clearer and more pleasing.
( I checkled it out on some Salsa with lots of percussion, and all the bongos and Congas and stuff...it becomes all more homogenetic with the plug in than a good master can deliver.)
Amazing, i think i gonna keep it.
This is a great, clear and methodical presentation of a very complex process.
Great food for thought.
Cheers!
The immidiacy of the vocal was evident. My head and ears felt completely relaxed and tuned in. That was crazy. I’ll be d/ling this. Wow. Felt like listening to a warm old record. I turned my head away and you could tell when it was on and off by ear. Thank you
I did app 50 Blindtests with the FiDef algorithm (in the MAAT EQ) and I ALWAYS picked the FiDef Version as a better sounding file. I don't know what it is doing but it works.
Interesting and thanks for sharing that! It would not be difficult to set up a controlled double blind study around this. If it was done on line making it double blind wouldn't be difficult.
Woah. I’m shocked. I can *really* hear it on this example. The best way I’d describe it is that things sound less two-dimensional. The space around and between instruments suddenly feels more natural for lack of a better word, and the music slightly softer without losing any clarity. Weird!
Cohesion, depth, roundness - incredible
@@MEMFISAKA Exactly my thoughts. Whenever I hear buzzwords like that being thrown around, I call for a double blind test.
"It's so subtle you might not even notice, but your brain does."
Mr. Plinkett. Probably.
Great, detailed review. Thanks! There has been a lot of slating this plugin for being 'snake oil'. I agree with you. There's some music it just works amazingly on and some it doesn't affect or makes sound 'smudged' and 'sludgy'. The depth of field and sense of 'space' and 'air' around the individual elements is quite amazing, on occasion. It's revealed details that were flat or masked in the original mix.
I agree. Sometimes I switch it on and there is no way I'm ever going to turn it off for that piece of music, it just sounds more pleasurable to listen to with it on. And on some tracks it does increase clarity in the soundstage. On other pieces I'll turn it on and hear no noticeable difference or no clear improvement. In that case I turn it off. I really does depend on the music.
Thanks so much!! I appreciate you so much for your details, you ROCK!!
Woooow... definitely buying this plugging ...just amazing ... Sound so good
Sounds very similar to doing a 'reverse' compression algorithm. Essentially when you take non compressed files and compress them to a format like mp3 an algorithm removes 'things'. So much research has been done that we now have codecs that are far better at removing sounds that the listener could never hear. But if you do this process in reverse and add those things back in a more noticeable manner, you get 'extra' that would normally be 'invisible' to your ears. I don't know if this is how they are doing it, but it sounds similar to me when delta'ed
Thanks for the video
WOW !!!!!!!!!
Great recommendation, huge difference. Thanks!
It survives YT’s lossy compression nicely!
It's a common misconception that YT is very lossy. HD videos sound very good in fact, null test it for yourself.
I feel this way with IK Multimedias Tape Machine 99… just makes everything feel nicer to listen to
My goto for drums and bass!
Maybe my Samsung TV has a certain property to it, but I didn’t have a problem noticing the difference. It sounds to me like an exciter or tape biasing.
As a solution, to flat or slightly lifeless audio, maybe.
About plugins though - I’ve concluded that they sound the same, regardless of what they are doing, I have the Softube Chandler Germanium - I think its great, but it sits on the music like every other plugin. Analog hardware in my experience, does not have this same property, it has a complexity of flavour.
This is a pretty good analogy actually.
I’m into coffee. Not terribly deep, but I grind the beans and I’ve found a method that makes high street coffees taste bland or else very one note. I will buy from Starbucks and it works sort of and serves a purpose, but brewing your own is subtly different and more satisfying.
This is how I feel about plugins. They are a flavour that is not terrible, certainly does the job. But, kind of lacking intrigue, a bit roasty and one dimensional.
While listening to the null test I was reminded that I need to change the stylus on my turntable.
Tried it and it definitely brings the sauce
How cool to be able to remaster Chet Baker
It was a privilege to work on those albums and really enjoyable!
@@heronislandstudio8054 That's awesome 🤘💀🍻🔥
Thanks for the null tests. Very revealing. I've seen no evidence of published scientific papers on this process but can safely assume it to come down to a combination of signal-correlated and modulated cross-talk, likely added gain with that (even +0.1dB will sound "better"), plus confirmation bias, topped off with expectation bias.
To me it adds more space between notes, there is more air around instruments and vocals. Great plugin. One can even use it just for music listening when applied to a music player that supports VSTs (foobar) or using BlueCats Axiom or PatchWork with player in chain before FiDef.
I was very sceptic after other reviews but here I did hear the difference finally! Yes, it's subtle, but also it's not. Taking it out is like making the mix a bit less stereo, like taking away a bit of the fx that determine the positioning.
Great Vid Thanks For Doing This.
Cheers!
It works like an emulsifier agent for audio
Interesting video, thanks for doing the null test. It sounds to me a little like surface noise on a record and I'm wondering if this is why, to some ears, it has a positive affect on the overall sound. I listen to LP's as well as CD and Streaming. All sources have their good and bad points, but there's something about vinyl that makes for a more enjoyable listening experience for me (and yes, I know there are many other factors in play such as a slightly more dynamic master than digital, and perhaps some confirmation bias in the listener).
Perhaps it's the low-level mechanical noise that inevitably gets transmitted through the stylus that adds something imperceptible to the audio on vinyl playback? I recall there used to be a plug-in that added low-level rumble to simulate a record deck, with the aim of making digital audio less 'digital'. So perhaps the MAAT FiDef plug-in is doing something similar, albeit much more sophisticated, to the audio in these examples?
Whatever the actual answer, I can hear a difference and I'm interested in using the plug-in in my own work.
There might be something in what you're saying re vinyl. On paper vinyl is much farther away from the original recording than a dynamic digital master. A dynamic digital master is as close to the original as it's possible to get because at 24 bits it is identical to the original (unless the original was mastered to tape). As you probably know vinyl adds significant distortion, which increases more and more the closer the stylus gets to the centre of the disk. You have reduced dynamic range (compared to a dynamic digital master) you have reduced stereo image in the bass (usually has to be made mono), reduced bass frequencies and reduced high frequencies on vinyl. Plus all of this is a moving goal post depending on how much music you want to fit on each side of the vinyl. The more you get on there the lower the quality of each of these has to be made in order to make it fit. Vinyl cutting is about balancing act between how much quality you want to keep and how much music you want to fit on a side. To make it worse all this varies with each recording depending on the loudness of the frequency content. Yet... even with all this compromise on quality, a lot of people love the sound of vinyl. So something must be going on there :) I might be exactly what you are talking about.
I really like it, of course it does something, how complex or what it does - I don't know. But I do like it.
Love your videos (and just bought Kirchoff on the back of your review). One plea to ALL plugin reviewers - please make it absolutely clear on screen when you are bypassing a plugin and when you are not. On this one I'm guessing that when that button was yellow the plugin was bypassed? I only listen on headphones (neighbours etc) but it seemed to me there was still a useful difference even so. Assuming the button when unlit was the plugin working, it was that sound that I preferred. I'd love to think I can develop mixing and mastering skills to achieve that sense of space without having to add this kind of magic dust but........
Apologies, I should make it more clear when something is bypassed. Thanks for pointing this out. Yes when the yellow light is on it is bypassed. Glad this was useful.
@@heronislandstudio8054 Thanks for taking time to reply, I feel honoured 👍 I find its a very common oversight with youtube videos dealing with plugins so you're not alone. I thoroughly appreciate your intelligent videos though and they've shaped more than one of my learning decisions.
Great description of the plug-in, I also didn’t have to work too hard too hear the difference….I can only use a simple phrase that everything seems more 3D than without it…I am also wary of things that do great things for your mix but you can never really hear them…one should be able to hear or feel it ..that wasn’t the case with this…but yeah it surely ain’t priced that I’d pick it up immediately….but I guess something that does this is probably not gonna be cheap
Wow yeah, definitely a difference. Are you using it on each individual instrument or just the master bus? Or both?
Just the master bus.
Yeah different sound
subbed! Great mix and methods of information here!
Amazing. I turned arround to not see what you are doing. I immediately noticed it turning of. Like a popping balloon...that's my closest emotion....just empty and dead...
Hi Mark, where in the chain do you use insert this in Mastering and in Mixing? Do you also use this on individual tracks?
it is a second Gen Plugin?? any one used the first version?
Nice 3D effect, must try this one. I am getting similar effect from bx digital bass and presence shift set slightly differently for M and S side + bass monomaker.
Where in a master chain would you suggest placing this? Right before the limiter or before other mastering plugins such as compression?
I think we need Witse and Dan Worrall to investigate this. Sure as hell sounds like snake oil to me, but who knows?
Well, I actually investigated this and I still am waiting for MAAT to reply, because they even decided to write to me! ruclips.net/video/33I2KiJ2Vdw/видео.html
Wytse wouldn't hear what it's doing
Wytse already did a vid on it
Could you link to it? Couldn’t find it on his channel, but I’d love to see what he had to say.
@@boimesa8190 That was a MAAT EQ vid, not FiDef
Did the MAAT marketing department perform the brain scans and analyse the results, and were the scientific papers written by undergraduate Fiverr copywriters? Just asking... 😉
Its quite "big" effect. Its easier to separate instruments. Easiest to hear how vocal comes more in front.
I did a lot of blind tests and I couldn’t say it was 100%
There is a level increase in the plugin by .1/.2 db if I remember correctly
When properly level matched it was very hard for me to tell blind
Also you can get it freeinna different plugin(KVR cough…)It was old technology by a company fidef that shut down or abandoned the tech.
Whats the name of the free plugin? I cant find it. Thanks!
@@sean.jamieson I'd be amused if LADSPA had it covered somewhere too. (Many of those are quite usable if not pushed too hard.)
Which plugin is that?
Ok. I’m gonna try it out. It’s just too intriguing not to. I believe Wytse had this on a Snake Oil a few months ago. The null was almost like when you null and mp3 against lossless. Maybe that explains why whenever i do blind tests comparing MP3 320 kbps and 44.1. I end up choosing the MP3 as “sounding better” close to 75% of the time!? That would be a trip If modern file compression artifacts actually made music sound better?! 😢 😅
But it's actually not the first time I hear that people prefer MP3 over WAVs. Yep, there might be something to it. Perfectly clean digital sound simply sounds harsh. Tapes, vinyl and even MP3 adds distortion which makes it sound better.
By how many Db did you Boost the null test signal if i may ask?
The null test sounds an awful lot like vinyl surface noise to me...
Hear it jump went switch it
More clear
Rolling up paper
It has some roll of and removes some resonances.
Have you ever used gulfoss?what were your thoughts?
Gulfloss adds a constant 10k boost, and never sounded too good to me. Soothe is a much more useful tool in combination with multi and comps
@@GingerDrums thanks for reply.......i own gulfoss and i like it a lot on the master......but i can't compare it with others.......
I will try this fidef tomorrow.......good to find your channel......
@@GingerDrums gulfoss it's not super useful for the top end, you can you the slider on the right to get it to ignore the highest highs. Then you can use soothe or something like the Weiss desser on the top end. Gulfoss can be really useful if you have mid-range issues that change over the course of a track
@@SinclairSound I'll have to revisit it
Hmmm...sounds like good tape
DrMs subtle 3D
Godfather Neve developed the first all-digital Console with 16 Tracks HD Recording and Editing, the famous AMS Neve Logic 1 about 5 years before the first Protools came out. There were 3 Consoles in Germany: 2 in Cologne at the company I had my first job after college and 1 in Berlin. There was a technician in the middle with a helicopter. Just waiting for the call that something is not working. I rwemwember that 1 AD/DA converter in this beast was about 5000 $. There was a serverroom for it. And this all because Neeve said "Everything below 92kHz Sampling will hurt the brain, cause it has to process too much. Neve famously predicted a global change in behavior from listening to CDs because of the gap. Everyone laught at him. Now we are all listening toway less than even 44.1.
His predictions about change in behavior with kids who are growing up to this rape of the brain had come true. Nobody of course talks about it. I am just happy that my the first mp3 hit my brain when I was an adult.
Long story short: I understand and believe this is NO snake oil. I'll try it!
sorry for my typing..its the minimini keyboard that fits my Console. But not my fat Saussage-fingers...
What?
I would say old hum, hiss and noise. The new digital recordings are unnervingly tweaked and scrubbed clean.
Sound like train or high winds
K, where can we find these scientific papers, result of brain scans or any proof other than "trust us bro, we did the science"?
I agree you are right to be skeptical about whether there's any scientific evidence or not. I think brain scans were done, but of course that doesn't mean it was done scientifically (double blind testing of a hypothesis). However, I guess you could apply that same critique to many other plugins. I doubt there scientific evidence that saturation makes things sound better But we can hear a difference that we like (on some material and not on others). So I would say if you like the sound it makes then that's what matters 🙂
@@heronislandstudio8054 I'm not saying that it _definitively_ doesn't make any difference, in fact - if A/B doesn't null perfectly, the question becomes whether the difference is audible/significant or not.
My issue with this plugin and company behind it is that they do check every possible "audio voodoo" box in their marketing strategies.
If they play "science" card, I want that "science" then. And if it is a fresh take on dithering noise - I want to be told just that. Plain and simple.
I would be also interested in those white papers from a purely scientific point of view
@@heronislandstudio8054 , MAAT claims on their website and in their documentation that they did the research and FiDef proved to be effective on our "subconsciousness", whatever they mean (actually, to talk and work with subcosciousness competently, you have to define it first, create a working model for your research, subcosciousness has never been proven, measured and is NOT given a priori like any physical object) . If they claim so, that would be great to publish the paper with research results and present the team of scientists involved, don't you think? Otherwise, they should not mention any science and research and simply claim their "magic" as it is, without any real science fundamentals. I elaborated on this on my channel a bit, after reviewing FiDef first and receiving Oliver Masciarotte's (MAAT's CTO) comment: ruclips.net/video/33I2KiJ2Vdw/видео.html
@@heronislandstudio8054 adding harmonics, changing frequency response or dynamics are quantifiable and measurable. You described this directly improves your emotional response... What specifically is being changed in the audio that makes it more pleasurable? Sounds like total nonsense to me.
Generally love your videos and the calm and analytical approach, but here you've unfortunately fallen victim to a clever psychological trick. The trick is basically monetization of what's called the expectation bias. There are studies that show increased brain activity in the brain regions that are associated with pleasure when tasting a wine that is said to be expensive. The same wine will trigger less pleasure in the brain when the person tasting is told that's it's a cheap or a mid-priced wine. So your brain will hear what it seeks to hear, and the expectations that you bring with you will very concretely change your experience. A very simple way to bust this FiDef "Magic Sauce" would be to perform a blindfold A/B -test (Hofa makes a plugin that's great for this) and see if anyone can hear any difference when the expectation bias is taken out of the equation.
You could be right of course. And I haven't done a blind test, which would be interesting to try. What makes me think it might not be expectation bias is that I think FiDef sometimes makes things sound worse rather than better, sometimes I can't hear a difference and other times it definitely sounds better to my ears. It really depends on the music. If I always thought it sounded better that would be one thing. But since I don't, it makes me think it's not expectation bias. But without doing a blind test of course I can't be sure.
yes, you are right, sounds nice but the MAAT and all those kind of claims many companies do are really whatever. ...yes sounds cool.... but is the same way if you showcase a cool saturation plugin, exciter, tape plugin...if you add a lil bit and then you bypass it ...you will miss it....the brain can perceive so many things in so many different ways and levels.. and in few months somebody else will make a bigger claim... is like analog gear..there are some great ones and some so bad one where many plugins are better.. remove some cool plugin in your mix bus or in any track and you will miss something too...those are common and nothing out of the ordinary claims
"Because FiDef is a psychoacoustic process, it may not have any impact if the listener resists its charms. We’re talking full-on Jedi mind tricks, folks. If you are like many of us audio engineers, you are very much a “left-brain” person and discount what you cannot understand or explain. You are used to dissecting what you hear, you simply can’t help it. Unfortunately, your conscious higher level brain function will suppress your unconscious brain, and FiDef acts subconsciously. Result? If you try too hard to hear it, you probably won’t!" 😁😆
Bullshit.