He has a point
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- Опубликовано: 29 авг 2024
- [Streamed Live on 21st October, 2023]
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#JoshuaSchmidt #stream #yugioh
Konami is probably confused like we finally give y'all both a diverse and non tier 0 format and ya'll are still crying.
Yugioh players in a nut shell
facts. but the "non game factor" post side is still crazy. yugioh is sometimes really nice, but to often a better draw it variety game
Pak and Josh are the only ones I know that are complaining about the current format. Everyone I know is happy finally being able to play different deck, and haven't complained about the diversity of it. If anything they're happy they catch a random loss that isn't the same deck that's been dominating for about a year.
If that is Konami's approach to the game, then they are missing the point. The point is players want a diverse format while also it being skilled. Those 2 factors when taken into isolation of extreme diversity of deck styles that turns it into dice roll matchups where you auto-lose if you get paired with a bad match up or vice versa with not much deck building fault of your own, because you had to pick your poison of losing to one type of deck or the other. Konami can design a format where you have a diverse format with decks that don't auto win too easily so you don't need to hard counter decks and also they could design decks to have similar choke points or ways to answer them. If every deck was more tame in their win condition, you would have less of a dice roll match up scenario.
A player shouldn't be forced to play hand traps or they lose for example is my design philosophy, because it then depends solely on your deck building choices and 1st turn luck of the draw. There are other decks where hand traps don't do much against and board breakers don't do much against (vice versa) So the "diverse format" is diverse but for bad reasons.
I believe a deck shouldn't auto-win just by comboing off and making it up to what the player had to draw in order to stop them. The other alternative is to design more decks like tear where you have in-archetype hand traps that give a lot more options turn 0 so the 2nd turn player has more consistency in dealing with threats before they combo off. In-engine outs is always better than non-engine outs because in-engine cards can serve dual purposes of being part of the deck's engine while also solving for situations. The more options you give the player the better. But what konami is giving us this format are, lose-lose situations where you are forced to pick your poison. So while yes it is diverse it's like a genie giving what you "technically asked for" but not the spirit of what we want.
Tbh it's only rly bad for competitive players its like shit atm
“Diversity is good in some aspects” out of context josh strikes again
German momento 💀
thats crazy.@@shen.daniel
@@eleonarcrimson858 is that not the joke? 🤣 I guess i miiiiight have gone above and beyond
a little bit more but i like it.@@shen.daniel
Honestly skill issue, complaining that you can’t just play the best deck and beat everyone else
This format is gonna be incredibly fun at the local scene and that’s all I really care about. Once-twice a week and getting to try a new deck each event is such a fun experience. We haven’t had this sort of freedom since og spright/tear format last year.
Exactly this should be the KONAMI goal. for people to be able to play their favourite decks and perform well, also a great way for us to buy some generic instead for swapping decks every 2 months just to stay competitive
Yes let’s keep the game fun for the casuals and make the people who play the game more than once every 2 weeks miserable. That’s healthy for the game🤷🏾♂️🤷🏾♂️
@@truegrit9202 Yeah turns out that is actually the right way since there is way more casuals than pros.
Also not like pros play more than once a week at a tournament anyway, they might be labbing all the decks but konami doesn't get anything from that.
But it doesn't actually matter anyway since this is a clear cycle that konami is intentionally perpetuating to keep everyone happy.
We get a tier 0 format, then maybe a super diverse one or just a balanced format with 3-4 top decks and eventually repeat.
Everybody has fun sometimes and everybody has to suffer some other time.
yeah bro, cater to the much smaller community of competitive players. Watch your local game store slowly wither as theres even a smaller percentage of people buying product Lets see how that turns out@@truegrit9202
@@luminous3558 lol the true reason everybody is always complaining explained perfectly
This is a very diverse format, I think pak's issue is that he can't easily solve this format and take into account every matchup that he can come across because there is so much variety. I for one love this format, it feels like a breath of fresh air after multiple formats of kashtira ariseheart gate keeping decks.
I've never seen Pak blame a loss on anything other than getting sacked or a bad format.
So what im getting is that LOCALS STAY WINNING BABYYYY
As someone who has come over from Magic and specifically the modern format, having so many decks viable that you can't account for everything was how I lived for like 5 years and it was some of the most fun competitive Magic I had ever played. Getting to experience a Yu-Gi-Oh format that reminds me of that actually sounds amazing even if it is most likely only for a short time.
Magic x Yugioh is the best combination of skills. Sad most people never give the other a proper chance. My two favorite games of all time and every time I mention yugioh to a magic player they get grossed out like i just showed em a poo, every time I talk about magic to a yugioh player their eyes just glaze over lmao. Glad to see more people coming out saying they play(ed) both. Such a weird unwarranted rivalry between two groups of nerds
@@wilhelmbecknee5870 I'm a little lucky in this regards because I have a few friends that came to Yu-Gi-Oh as well. We still talk about Magic a ton too, but WotC being WotC for the last few years gave a good push to try other games and Master Duel hit at the right time.
@@wilhelmbecknee5870the thing is, most of us invested too much into one game to learn/care about the other. I am a Ygo player, and I just do not have the time and energy for MtG. I spent a lot of time learning ins and outs of what to do against what deck when in ygo, feel like doing the same for MtG is just not possible for me. MtG art is top notch, best imo, but land mechanic is just obnoxious for me. The attack target choosing is a very interesting idea but I haven't learnt MtG so the choice makes me very anxious, feel like will never learn what to attack when. I do not enjoy not being able to play most of my cards in a given turn too. It doesn't help that the dude who tried to show me the game only played Blue and always countered whatever I did probably. Again, no shade on the game, just my experiences. Hope ppl have fun with either hobby.
Idk, "format sucks because top players can't find a deck that has answers for every/must matchups" ... doesn't feel like a valid argument. Like, pro players have to understand that even though they are the ones that take the game more seriously, the game is not only for them, and they are not the most valuable for the game either.
Yeah this is better for Konami as a whole. The diverse format means new players can try out the game at a local level, with whatever deck they like and do good. I'm a new player but I can imagine when there was "tier 0" formats we lost players and it was hard to get new players in seeing how "tier 0 " decks expensive. It's really hard on children also ...like it must suck being a child and wanting to play yugioh but not have $100+ to spend on a childrens card game. Not only that I actually wouldn't want my kid to be unsupervised around yugioh player lol
I feel like this discussion wouldn’t be such a big issue if pak and Jeff weren’t talking down on players for liking the format. “You just don’t get it man, you’re not thinking on my level and have a high enough IQ to understand why this format is objectively bad” type shit.
Jeff? U mean josh? Jeff doesn't care and will still obliterate ppl with exodia
@@invertbrid Jeff jones.
@@dpacula63 oh nvm then, i havent read his twitter and such.
I blame Konami for getting people used to certain decks being more powerful than others and creating their own tier 0 " get it while it's hot" decks for the quick money but even quicker powercreep. The players are at fault as well because they buy into it and expect to do well with their decks until they don't. That credit card can't win you games your not prepared for which I see as a win for yugioh in general. It's better to have all decks viable than none or even (the usual) exceptions created to top from the getgo.
@@madbart214yomother7 Thats been a thing since the game existed. Sometimes we get 1 deck formats, sometimes 4 deck formats and sometimes 10 deck formats.
What matters is that it rotates through the different types and there will always be one you enjoy coming up eventually.
Average pro player when they don't top
He made a video about him not liking the format long before this tweet 😂
I get pros complaints about the diversity issue, but this legit feels like people are mad simply because you can’t easily metagame the format. I get the frustrations but it also sounds kind of petty to be like “I can’t just stuff my side deck with blowouts now, this sucks”
Yeah it feels like pros want the side deck to just be a bunch of silver bullets instead of playing games out
@@haydenz0 It quite literally boils down to "The less i have to think the better."
Literally sounds like a skill issue. If you can only win when your opponent is predictable, you're actually trash at the game.
Yup
Best comment
That’s bullshit, there’s been times when I was siding against all the meta decks correctly and winning every round. Then out of nowhere your pitted against a deck that just has a surprisingly good match up against you. That’s not a skill that’s rng.
@@mulldrifterz6469 game 1 D shifter couldn’t do much lost, won game 2 easily, game 3 D shifter didn’t draw the out. That’s not getting out played that’s 1 poor card design by Konami and 2 rng.
How do you watch the and not at least get the idea of why preparing for 8+ decks compared to 2-3 is a alot harder lol
You can only side so much, and some matchups are even horrid no matter how much you side.
Diversity is excellent right now, and its not just everyone splashing Verte, Scythe, FD and DPE in every deck or floodgate turbo.
This is probably the best argument for a diverse meta. Floods suck and realistically, none of the top decks floodgate you from playing.
Yeah but i want branded and floo gone there are to long here now
@@Stylercom113 I love Branded (degen locks aside anyways) but I think Floo should kick the can already
@@Stylercom113 they are not that hard to play against its ok for a deck to stay and not being hit for just that reason
I honestly enjoyed Covid format with Verte.
Pro players want to limit as much variance as possible in a competitive game involving some degree of luck. In a way, this is entitlement. The reality is that players want a 50/50 matchup despite the fact that archetypes aren't built equally. Siding broken cards that single-handedly counter some decks isn't as skillful as it sounds.
This
With more diverse format autowin card that became problem like dbarrier, anti spell fragrance or droll (for certain deck) won't make you singlehandedly win in game 2 and later
The format has a week
Pak : unplayable
Yugioh isn't a fighting game a "good player" can just lose because of luck and that's normal in a card game
Pak is probably just crying rn
i will say about your argument in Paks perspective, you said he knows he has the skill but hes upset that he cant win. it's fair to say on the other side that he's not playing a purrely skill based game. The game inherently has luck involved, and i would argue the diversity in decks does change the amount of luck involved alittle but it does that for both parties, so skill is still the outlier leading to victory in most battles.
Comp. Players wine about thee most trivial things. Too much diversity, can't prepare for ycs, wah. Meanwhile other players can't buy into meta
You can spot the rich spoiled kids when they complain like this. Absolutely agree. That bank account can't buy people wins so they complain.
and this is what i mean by "completely missing the point"
The issue is competitive people thinking they have to go into a tournament solving the meta game, figuring out the right tech picks, deck building with the proper ratios and learning what their deck and every other deck in the game does. Of course if you put that much pressure on yourself your not going to enjoy a tournament. Pick a viable deck you enjoy, pick some non engine that is decent against everything while probably falling short of being optimal and roll the dice knowing you may not win.
There is way too much emphasis put on optimizing lines, deck building etc... That's why I think Konami tries to make more formats like this where there is so many viable decks. People should be more like Jeff Leonard, attend with some random deck and see what happens.
Being competitive isn't fundamentally incorrect on any level. Ridiculous take even putting aside the format discussion.
Wanting to optimize and do your absolute best and see your skill and effort reflected in the results you earn is both valid and normal. No, these players are not supposed to just be like Jeff.
@FakeDadRealFriend If you want to show off your skill then simply don't play a TCG. Play chess bro. This game isn't "fair" even in "fair" formats because it is entirely rooted in RNG through draw RNG (see Pak losing to whiffing all his cats), match up RNG, and dice roll on going first.
Even in the most solved formats decks like Floo were getting tops because the player sometimes just wins all their die rolls or opens shifter or DRNM+Evenly if they have to go second.
Just because you are better doesn't make it your god given right to get a top in a game with variance. Again, go play chess if that's what you want.
I am making the point that leisure activities have become far too competitive.
People can just play a game for the fun of it without needing to win, and frankly I think that's healthier.
The fact that a lot of decks are viable got me into the tcg. If there's a tier 0 format I'd rather quit. Playing against the same decks over and over is boring.
This. I don't understand why people bitch about a diverse format. Maybe they need to build better decks and sideboards instead of 0-x dropping and then crying on fucking twitter. l m a o
Na a 3 deck meta is so much fun
@@DarkAuraLordTell me then fucking genious How tf youre supposed to "build a better deck and side" when theres only 15 slots in your side for 10+ decks and each one gets affect differently by each type of side?
Cant your fucking small brain comprehend that at a fucking YCS with 500+ people playing in the swiss and where X-3 usually dont Go to the tops, when you need to prepare for 10+ decks its Just turns the whole fucking tournament into a dice roll where you Just Hope to play against the matchups your deck is built around?
But...Tearlaments...was such a fun interactive skill intensive format tho! All because it was Tier 0 doesn't mean that it wasn't fair and balanced. You just DON'T UNDERSTAND what good Yu-Gi-Oh looks like!
-MBT
@@SiopaoClub "Never ask a woman her age, a man his salary, and a Tear player about how the skill involved in non-mirror duel."
Format isn’t bad, just unsolved. It doesnt matter if you’ve been testing for weeks; I think it’s ridiculous to be able to solve a format in that small amount of time. Retro formats like Goat and Edison have showed us this in spades.
The best handful of decks are definitely there but we as players havent found the right combination of cards or are misunderstanding this format’s internal theory (ie, cards/concepts/routes can be good in some formats, bad in others, red herrings, gems in disguise, etc).
The gameplay won't be better when it's solved. We still have bullshit blowouts.
this format is 20 times better than "play 9 bystials because tear and auto lose to the anti tear decks" format
These are the players that auto scoop and refuse to play out a game but want you to watch them do 30 minute tear combos cuz they think it’s “skill” 😂😂 all you’re doing is a memorized combo and you hate “luck” factor but play a mill deck based on luck. 😂😂 these guys need to change the way they look at the game.
i think in hindsight its safe to say that purrely just was not the deck to play in this event.
didn't purrely perform well?
@@tecul1 not really i mean yeah 1 top 4 but if you look at the Repräsentation it did not Perform as well as recue ace so its probably just worse.
So, this diverse format is bad for competitive players while casual players can enjoy the game more which makes majority of the player count? Yes lets keep it like this.
Why do you need to counter every single deck anyway? You cant prepare for every single card in the game and that is not a problem but "I cant counter every single deck" is the problem? Lets not the salt and inital anger cloud our judgement.
There's really no winning with YGO players.
at some point we have to come to reality and touch some grass, Fundomentally this is a card game, with a big card pool. RNG elements will play a factor and you can never be ready for every deck, that's why side decking exists. It's fucking wild to have a competitive game where the meta game competitive scene is too diverse and "that's a problem", and instead we are asking for a rock-paper-scissors format so that we can be prepared.
Idk i'd much rather have a big diverse meta than to watch the same 3 top tier decks, floodgates or tier0 decks.
Exactly.
The number of players who don't understand this and said yugioh is bad, because rng factor is too many, lol.
Rescue ACE Diabelestarr was pretty good in the OCG, and not just because of Maxx "C". Pak complains about there being too many decks viable and he is not wrong, but there was a best deck for the event.
Also, there aren’t many tier 1 decks. Race, Tear and Unchained are significantly better than pretty much anything else
It really just doesn't lose to any one card, and can play through boards just as well as other decks. Diabelle is just such a crazy one card combo that also acts as a great extender, although the deck certainly still has consistency issues.
Pre sinful spoils that was mostly true.
@@RoyaltonDrummer922purrely
@@fortant691 I mean even after AGOV going into Indy it was pretty known that the top decks were likely to be Sinful RACE, Purrly, and Unchained...which they totally were
Pro players when they don't top be like:
Finally one format in which I can choose what I prefer to play, not having to choose one of just a few choices to have a chance competing. I get your strictly competitive point of view, but I don't care. Hope they'll keep thing this way
I don't think it's bad. It's just unsolved.
And thats to be expected we just got a new set
In addition to that, calculating everything is not the only possibile approach in deck building or meta solving. People are just used to do it and try to apply it even when it doesn't make sense, like now. Look at Trif decklist: he faced diversity not thinking too much about every specific matchup. He just tried to be generic. Non deterministic systems still can have a solution
@@simonepiolanti6991 I agree, but came to the conclusion people are lazy an just want the game inherntly in their favor, or side auto wins.
Every time Pak does poorly he blames the format instead of his deck building choices
Common Pak L
I like pak, but yea have to agree with this.
Bro was coping with an outdated Purrely list
Meanwhile Trif placed 4th and was still hype because he loves the game. Be like Trif.
@@HumanoidCableDreads trif's list built around how generic non engines/board breaker being used to enabling his 1 card combo. While pak's list is just put counter on everything even in main deck its looking sad.
I love this format. Makes every event interesting and people are allowed to win with their pet decks. To me, this is what Konami always needs to be striving to maintain in terms of game balance.
the thing is most of the comments don't actually want a diverse format, they just want to win with their pet deck with no practice or meta knowledge at all, nothing to do with being competitive
@@tecul1 The thing you don't aware that your opinion will be worse in the monotone format. In diverse, the more you know the decks, the possibility to win is higher. You can play with your pet deck, but if you don't understand what opponent's play, but your opponent understand how their deck and yours work, you will be harder to win.
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But in other hand, when the meta is monotone. You can just buy the best dominant deck and learn this deck ad other 1-2 high tier decks, or if it Tier 0, you just need to learn 1 deck only to play or beat. When your dominant META deck meet non-Meta, the duel will be easier because your deck is basically stronger and can carry your play.
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I can explain why this format is skilful and other other isn't really. Person like you just accusing people "not skilled" without any explanation or proof.
Top cut breakdowns don't make a format good. The gameplay does. This format has awful gameplay.
@@geek593 sorry if there are too many decks with different gameplay to handle, and your brain cannot catch up with them.
@@renaldyhaenAhh yes, I love watching my opponent play solitaire for ten minutes only to not be able to play on my turn. Face it, modern yugioh is shit and will be shit until turn one boards stop ending on 10+ negates
Pak is real good at the game but is being a salty loser. He makes this tweet every time there's format diversity and it doesn't go well for him. I think it was Sajam who said "Pro players shouldnt be allowed to touch their social media 24 hours after losing." This is literally just salt talking and i dont think it should be entertained in the slightest.
Just by the way the competitive and spectator enjoyment split is, there'll never be a format good for most of the playerbase.
The competitive side prefers it when there's less decks to plan for so that individual skill can shine in their play and deckbuilding and doesn't like it when they have to try to account for too many decks and then they feel a less skilled player won.
Meanwhile, the spectator side likes formats with many decks to play because it's simply more interesting seeing varied styles of play, different representation of decks, niche and interesting back-and-forth while not liking a deck with only 1-3 viable decks because you start to see the same thing over and over and it gets stale.
Granted, this format is super new and completely unsolved, so there's room for the belt to tighten on viable decks so that maybe both sides can find some sort of middle ground. But then by the time it's attempting to get solved, a new set will come out and change it all up again, and the cycle will continue until a Tear-power deck comes out, centralizes the meta, gets neutered on a banlist after people doompost about the death of the game, and yadda yadda yadda.
Someone responded to Paks Tweet with "Diversity is cool for locals but preparing for a big event is just hard" and I think that's the issue for pro players or competivtive players
Diverse format is better for casuals.
Tier 0/ less diverse format better for Pros.
Game being better for casuals means more people play.
Better for Pros means game slowly dying (cause when casuals don't have fun they quit).
Pros dont quit when they are not having fun.
This.
Pros will play and join events regardless. So catering to casuals and viewers which are most of YGO playerbase, is the right thing overall.
Just because it is good for casual, doesn't mean it is bad for Pro-player. If you see some others game, a pro player can turn any casual things to become more competitive. I play Clash of Clans, Clash Royal, and MOBA AoV. Pro player there have ability to make something easy for casual, become something "deadly" and crazy in competitive scene. Or maybe you sometimes heard peopl "play casual game competitively" like Candy Crush or Genshin Impact.
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What makes a game competitive usually is the person who play it, not anything else.
Toss format was good for both and it diverse to an extend
Hard disagree and winning a mirror match format doesn't even deserve half the respect of winning at a diverse event 👍
Judging by the comments, a lot of people disagree. Why should so called top players always be expected to win and be on top? Where’s the fun for everyone else? It’s not fun to lose, yeah. But wanting a tier zero format that shuts out most other decks is also not fun.
And I do like Pak. I think he’s a good player and he’s an enjoyable person to watch.
Then why do we like Edison ? Isnt it because there are many decks that are different in play style
The same reason DUEA was so loved. Three top archetypes, plus a host of viable rogue choices.
This is a good format. Thank the lord we can play different decks.
It's a good format if you want to play dice and burn in time.
As a competitive player, I still prefer more diverse formats. As much as winning is something I want to do, it's very difficult to keep playing when you keep getting stomped by the same deck. Variety helps keep things interesting and as a trading card game, letting people experiment with strategy as much as possible and letting people take their deck instead of the "best deck" to an even is amazing, even for a competitive player! Is it a nightmare to side deck sometimes? Yeah, but it's overall more fun to see different decks slugging it out instead of just a small handful
I am a very competitive player aswell. I find pro players who complain about diverse formats pathetic, its truly a misconception that being good in tear mirrors for example was good for the game and showed how good you were at the game.
It could fix some problematic card that could make you autowin the duel like dbarrier etc
@@emilchaos1489 Plus not only that, but deckbuilding does matter since you aren't just picking the "best" deck, you pick which deck works best for you instead, and instead of hyper specific counters for every deck, you pick cards that either help in most matchups or counter really bad matchups.
@@JakeTheJay I think most pro players who complain about diversity are really lazy to actually solve the format themselves and put the effort to deckbuild for a variety of matchups and make deck concessions. I think they just expect that the new 60-90$ card (thrust, prosp, kurikara, fenrir at the time) will carry them and they insta choose whats currently the best deck (case and point jesse playing kashtira despite not liking it then immediately switching to uncahined and now proably rescue ace)
@@emilchaos1489 Format diversity means nothing iherently. Why the format is diverse is what matters. Is it diverse because as long as you are good, you can do well with anything? Or is it diverse because as long as you are lucky, you can do well. In some diverse formats, skill matters more and in others luck does
I think it's pretty good, to have a more diverse format for a change
There may be some advantages of centralized formats but we've basically had them nonstop for at least a year
I think that at a YCS level Pak is right, at local level, the game is amazing, because a lot of stuff is viable. Triple Tactics Thrust is such a frustrating cards though, it punishes counterplay hand traps way too hard.
I think he is tripping mainly because we just got a new set. If the same decks are still the best after a new set and banlist theres a problem.
maybe unban maxx c 😈
Have to respectfully disagree, of course Pak put in a lot of effort and nobody is denying his efforts, but seems like in this case he just didn't make the right meta call in playing rescue ace. The format is bad because pros can't prep comes off a bit salty. There's always an element of luck in the game, blaming the format for a couple of bad games is like a profession poker player malding at a few bad beats.
After being at the event he was also pretty salty from his second lose. I was at the table next to him and his dragon link opponent on 50 cards opened the 1 of Herald of the Abyss to out noir then otked him
@@UltrafireblastLil bro got mad at his opponent for outing his Noir? That's hilarious
@@Tony-hn8qy he was extra mad because he ashed thrust, just for him to have opened Herald anyway
Rescue-Ace literally won the YCS
Winning or topping a YCS also isn’t supposed to be easy. Prepping for a single deck is easy
My only huge issue with the format is Thrust. That card simply should've never gotten printed as it leads to insane "non-games" by searching blowout cards.
I feel like we're too caught up in the "Tier 0 vs. Diverse Meta" squabble, when the real culprit is the really swingy nature of comebacks in Yugioh.
I get Pak's unhappy, and isn't going to articulate himself on Twitter of all places instead of a video, but notice that his argument was that a bunch of decks with different answers make it impossible to reliably crackback on turn 2. And it makes sense - you can draw the out, you can be unprepared and not have the out, or you can not draw the out, and each scenario is either a turn 2 blowout or an instant scoop.
Why is this the reality of this game? Why are people forced into the binary of "Have the out or get blown out"? Games 2 and 3 have the bad reputation of being non-games after you've sided targeted hate, because of the same reason - have the out, or get blown out.
I don't know what the solution is to this. More life points? Turn 2 player starts with 6 cards but doesn't draw on their first Draw Phase? Stop printing psychotic extra deck generic cards? Stop printing dedicated go-2nd cards that read "You win the game"? I'm 1000% sure all of these random examples are flawed and I'm a blistering idiot, I just don't know what the solution is.
Hard to change, its the way modern YGO being played. Unless konami want to introduce hugeee master rule change, which i doubt.
Good thing alternate formats like edison exist.
The problem you’re referring to does actually relate to the “diverse vs not” argument and how people side deck. The main issue I’ve seen, and have gotten quite a few people to agree, with is how we look at the side deck. More often than not the side deck is looked at as “what do I put in here to completely shut down my opponent?” as opposed to “what’s better going first or second I’m general”. Best comparison I’ve had is between magic and yugioh. Side decking in magic going “I need to take these cards out going second because I need a few counters instead of 1 drops much or they are dead cards against my opponent. So let me grab my other options” while yugioh tends to be like “my opponent is playing a back row deck so let me take out my Nibiru and grab my three copies of Anti-Spell so they can’t play at all”
Having good generic cards I’ve always felt is a plus since it gives players solid options whenever they have deck space or just flexible spots in general. But I think a major issue is simply “win game one so that I can side in all my hate against my opponent and worst comes to worst I get to go first game three with all my hate for their deck”
Jeff Jones was saying this in the quote tweets. Diversity doesn't matter when the gameplay is rotten.
the solution is switching to Rush Duels YEP
@@davidjimenez3822 The solution is switching to anything else. Rush isn't the answer and I'd rather not give Konami money while they're running a game I love into the ground.
A diverse format requieres that you build your deck to cover most situations possible, it s just a diferent type of deck building
Diverse formats are the best, the excuse of not knowing exactly what to side is the best part. Creative deck building is SO BACK
Diversity is not bad and I've lost tons of respect for pro players complaining about this.
If I could thumbs up your comment more than once, I would have.
I complain about modern yugioh in general. But I’m old and miss the days where an interaction consisted of whether or not you attack a face down monster.
A diverse format pushes more on a reliable player who built their deck well to navigate all of the matchups as well as possible.
Can't tell if Pak is serious or he's salty he got dusted by round 6.
Salty
Serious. The format is awful. Indy looked awful on stream. Nearly every match was determined by the dice roll and time. Only the R-Ace finals wasn't.
Yugioh should always revolve around many decks being playable at the highest competitive level. I know there were many formats were only 1-3 decks were really viable but I never felt like that was what the game needs to be.
I always say this and will say it again if you want to play a super fair, balanced game were only a few decks are meta and little to no luck is involved , play fucking chess.
Exactly
What if they increased Side Deck capacity to 20 cards instead of 15 to compensate for the super diverse format?
Id rather play where there's a variety and options than everyone playing the same deck and it being boring
I mean, the YCS Indy winner was a previous YCS winner and Triff got top 4 with his manadium deck. You can't just outright say they got there because of luck, they've shown their skill to be above average. R-ACE winning the YCS was also kind of expected because of the incredible boost they got in AGOV?
Pak is good, and I'm really just casual and like the format. But does that seem to anyone else kind of like a "skill issue," so to speak? Like if you think the format is too diverse, pick the most flexible deck and adjust your deckbuilding for better coverage.
I feels bad for the players that prepared for the meta and ran into exodia and lost in 1 turn.
tbf ftk & ignorant combo decks in general has been a glaring weakness of the current tearlaments strategy, its just a flaw with the deck that you simply have no room for generic handtraps to hinder combo decks. Its only good in the current meta because there are many mid-range decks that tear can just power thru going second, and it puts up a pretty scary board going first. Choosing to take it to a YCS when you have next to no capability to stop any autowin combo going second is going to get punished eventually.
This kind of diversity is exactly what's healthy in a card game. Just build decks better.
I agree
But Josh is saying someone like Pak did build his deck well. He just had bad luck in draws and that's why the format is frustrating.
@@chaostrigger14Pak didn't build well is kind of the problem. He sided Neko Mane King and mained DRNM. And also sided Droll. These "silver bullet" that make games 2 and 3 into non-games in smaller formats are bad in diverse formats. Plus DRNM and Neko Mane are bad this format, especially Neko Mane who only has game vs Tear.
@@chaostrigger14 Not only did he pick a poor 'top' deck, which hasn't been a good choice for a couple YCS(s) now, given how much crossfire hits Purrely as well as other decks on top of his card choices being awful, Pak placed exactly where he should've.
This seems so unlogical to me
Diverse *and* balanced format means, that decks can beat each other and vice versa kinda unprepared for each other and not just by the side deck cards
This format is just diverse but not that balanced imo
I think Diverse formats are far better than the alternative, if its frustrating that the better player doesn't win sometimes then I think competitive card games might not be the optimal competitive outlet vs something that by design has less variance.
Y’all have been complaining about kashtira being “a problem” and “unfair” and the game being “not fun” and this being the “death” of yugioh. Now we have one of the most diverse and accessible formats ever, a huge player increase, and you’re mad since you didn’t win but FREAKING TRIF GAMING OUT PLAYED YALL YOURE JUST WHINING AND BAD. Pak did so well by busting out a deck people didn’t expect and didn’t know much about. Now people do and he’s whining
Kashtira enforced a pretty healthy format after Diablosis was banned. I unironically loved post-DUNE. It felt like games didn't go on for too long and going second wasn't a death sentence.
Tbh I understand the point from a competitive POV, but I just love having a very diverse format. Tear 0 format was so miserable it almost made me quit
I have some bad news for you then, because Rescue ACE is looking pretty fucking dominant right now. As in made the other other decks at the event look like light work.
What I don't understand is why non-competitive players fixate on what the game looks like at the highest level and take cues from it as if the gameplay they experience remotely resembles that quality.
@@chaotixthefox Because if you play Yugioh regularly, then it's unlikely you're completely "non-competitive" and more like "less competitive", and everyone and their mom was playing Tear at locals too. Even if you're just a spectator it is still fair to say that you think some formats are more entertaining than others.
@@chaotixthefoxDuring Tear format my locals had 1 other non Tear player then started seeing fall off to where 8 man tourneys were lucky. Same happened with Kash but to a lesser extent. So even at lower level play, depending on your area, you may feel the impact of tier 0 formats.
@@chaotixthefoxexactly dude. Casuals always look at the top of the board, and just assume that’s how it’s going to be everywhere, when in reality they may only play at home with a couple of friends 😂
R-ACE was definitely the best choice, but the diversity of the meta is absolutely a win and if you think it isn't, you have the wrong mindset game-wise. As a pro player aiming to win, diverse meta isn't what you want, but as 99% of the player base, I cannot stress how great the situation is.
P.S: You shouldn't be able to prepare for all decks you will face at a large event - That's what makes playing the game actually fun and not completely 1 dimensional in terms of deck building .You have to make sacrifices, deal with it.
As another commenter here said: "I think diverse formats reward true deckbuilders/strategists." - We can see that with Trif, who made top 4 with Mannadium, that goes to show skill will always result in higher placing, regardless of deck in such formats.
To the point Josh is trying to make that if everything is balanced, it doesn't mean the better player will win - That will never be the case as long as the 1st player/coin toss/dice roll winner gets the IMMENSE advantage going first provides, as side only really matters against certain decks and IF YOU DRAW THE CORRECT OUT as the going 2nd player. Nothing will change that, T0 doesn't change that. You need to change the core game mechanics to prevent that, so I don't see how that's a good point to make.I completely disagree with that argument.
So, with that in mind, diverse formats will ALWAYS be better than the alternative.
My 2 cents.
This video is taken before Steven Santoli (a remote YCS champion) is winning with R-ACE.
Turns out it's just Pak being too lazy to learn the meta.
Josh probably would have different opinion now.
Sorry but no one cares if high end players like the current format. Regular people don't like tier 0 (for the most part) and watching the same deck over and over is boring af.
I get why pro players dislike a hugely diverse format but I think it's good for more middle of the road players because it's a way you can win and lose matches not entirely based on skill without having the individual decks feel super unfair.
Did i misread? Coz it seems like you think games shouldnt be won by skill?
@@tickledeggz just over extrapolated. I think there should be some chance for a less technically skilled player to win because if the best player always wins it's very hard to get new players into the game as very few people are going to willingly sign up to lose for months on end, and yugioh lacks a rating system to compensate.
Sounds like we just need to expand the side-deck to 100 cards to side for every single deck
I mean they should change it to 20 cards
Having a diverse format makes the game more difficult to predict and prepare for. In that case, wouldn’t competitive players find that a motivating challenge to tackle? Trif explained in his top that he went generic because of diversity and he built his main deck to play at a steady going first or second. He broke boards or established them. Steven has won two YCS events with 2 different decks both in diverse formats. He played a mirror and a 60 Card Ignister build. I think playing what you enjoy, what style fits you best (combo, control, etc…), and preparing generically is not only what Konami is trying for create for players, but what accomplished players are showing. I understand that having a limited choice of decks is easier to control and prepare for, but doesnt that defeat the purpose of getting better at the game?
To be fair, Pak said it's the worst he's ever played. Doesn't he have only 2-3 years in the game?
I would say this is the most diverse format we've has since then, and that may just be his vice.
2020 SPYRAL was WAY worse than this, but there were no inperson events after
Diversity means we can't prepare for specific strategy...
Kaiba: Let's Start Battle Freaking City!!
Lmao PAK just salty there wasn't a definite best deck for him to copy and paste. Saw a video he did about the format, gonna say the same thing he and all these "pro" players said when it was a straight Ishizu Tear Mirror format. Take a break and wait til the format changes.
More like he is mad he can’t sack every opponent since the format is so diverse. Players complain about getting non-games post side. We finally get a diverse format where that happens less often and players are still malding. Ygo players are addicted to sacking their opp and when they got to work for W’s they mad.
@@BanditTools what does sacking mean? Getting a feeling of it not letting your opponent play at all.
@@b.belmont8193 Siding in xyz encore in purrely, or siding shifter against tear for example. Just blow out cards.
@@b.belmont8193 It's a term for when someone wins by being lucky, like drawing the card that automatically wins the game. A good example of it is when you flip anti-spell against a pend player.
@@ojamaftk9585 thanks for the info broski. 👍
Bro the format legit started 10 min before that tweet and he already hates it?
Diversity is better, than a straight lined format. In terms of viewership tho, no one would want watch Purrely & Tearlament in top 60% of Decks. Personally, diversity might not be balanced for high Level competitive players, but it lets the lesser players like us, hope that we have a chance in an event.
If you make a living from this game it's reasonable to have your grievances. I can emphasize with your position, but from a spectator's point of view, or a casual, or "semi-competitive" point of view, I think having a diverse format is simply better. I do not mind luck being part of a game. I do not want unending "skillful mirror matches". I don't even think it's an objectively correct statement to say that tournaments should be designed so that the best player always wins. Variance is fun. Needing to account for variance in a meta is also fine.
People on either extreme are welcome to their own opinions, but I will maintain my belief that a format with a small number of different decks (at least 3, ideally 4-5) that are noticeably stronger than the rest is ideal. Preferably with side deck counters that overlap with popular rogue options. TOSS format is the prototypical example, but post-POTE pre-MAMA format also comes to mind (even though Casino Tear did pull ahead by the end), as do a number of older legacy formats.
this is true
Apparently the yugioh brain can't handle more than "Super diverse format vs tier 0" in this discussion.
Another terrible Pak take. Nobody wants to play a miserable Tier 0 format where there's only 2-3 viable decks. The more diverse the format is, the better.
I do. Pote to Feb banlist was the best time I had in this game.
During tear format, attendance at my competitive locals dropped 50%. We usually get at least 40+ players every week but we had about 20ish players. Now, we got back those 40+ players.
I liked tear format but I'd rather give it up if even the regulars at the shops I go to are not enjoying the game
Except that's literally what the comp playerbase likes. Just because you prioritize diversity, it doesn't mean that is what everyone finds fun.
@@In.New.York.I.Milly.Rock. I'm sorry, I didn't realize the fucking SPOKESPERSON for the ENTIRE comp playerbase was gracing this thread.
Or maybe you're just an idiot and the comp playerbase is just as divided on this topic, because they don't all automatically agree with each other. 😐
@In.New.York.I.Milly.Rock. thank you. It just baffles me to see so many people in the comments not being able to see competitive players pov... people have different ways of enjoying the game and competitive players like... the competitive aspect of the game how surprising
I think diverse formats reward true deckbuilders/strategists. Anyone with the resources can buy the best deck of a format and have that assurance they have a higher chance to win. Just kidding if, you're not playing Rescue Ace, Purrelly or Unchained this format, you don't want to win and you're ruining meta players experience by forcing them to be prepared for more than 3 decks.
Not really the more decks out there the less important deckbuilding is. Because at the end of the day you can only put so many cards in a deck
Right, the guy that won YCS Indianapolis just threw together a deck with no care and got lucky with every duel he played. Call me crazy, but Pak running crossout designator in a format where it's hard to call out staple usage is basically throwing anyways.
@@plantseason290 I think it’s funny you mention good deck building when talking about playing the most played deck in top cut and if the results hold playing what might be the clear cut best deck in the format
Not really, rogue is a thing. If pros lost to u coz u are using deck that they dont prepare for, good for u, its ur w in the end,
Metacall also a thing. Plus there ae more decks than u stated that actually have chances to win. Manadium and tear are one of those.
Also who cares about highly competitive players? U dont play and enter ycs for em, everyone can play what they want.
The fact that some exodia strategy actually won on stream also one of the hypest thing in recent years.
I think the format is pretty good atm, as a purrely player literally if they ban d barrier it's perfect. At the ycs 2 of my 3 losses felt undeserved because of that card
People feel the same when you can noir 😂
@@GuessWhatHappened1 hey, I at least grinded for that view 🤣🤣
Eh, I’ll always find something and someway to enjoy every format. I just wanna try and adapt and not complain about it.
Being forced to make concessions in deck building is one of the signs of a healthy format. It means that there isnt 1 or 2 decks completely dominating the format. The META isnt confined and restrictive. If you are forced to choose which decks you want to build your sideboard against in deckbuilding that means that there isnt a very obvious strategy that everyone will play. That means that there are *options.* I understand the frustration in deck building, but that is only there if you have begun to play the game solely to win. If your going to a YCS with the sole goal of winning and nothing else, no matter *what* the format is your gonna have a bad time if you DONT win. Its a lot easier to win in less diverse formats though, because that means you only need to build your deck to deal with 1 or 2 strategies that might have similar answers.
the idea that having to make choices is bad baffles me because that is the entire point of deckbuilding. Choosing which cards to put in your deck, what strategy you want to use, what cards you want to play with. *THE ENTIRE GAME IS BUILT ON THE PLAYERS MAKING CHOICES!* So why, now that you need to make even more interesting, thought provoking, and important choices is it suddenly bad? If what you want is to have 1 sole strategy to easily side against, then your asking for an easy way out. Your asking for an *easier* format, not a *healthier* one.
This isnt a BAD format, its a complicated format. Its got a ton of options, a ton of strategies, and it requires both skill in deck building, and skill in predicting what is most likely to show up, and reading/understanding the format. Some people clearly dont like having unknown factors, and i cant say i understand that. I wont deny you your opinion, but i find it extremely counterintuitive based on the card game you have decided to play. A game defined by choice, by being able to build a deck using *any card ever printed,* and yet people complain when that ideal of the very design of the game is upheld in its truest fashion. Can it be frustrating in certain ways? Certainly, but that doesnt mean its bad.
Its ok to not like a diverse format but overall its the casual community that keeps the game alive
Hence why it's hard to get new players into Yu-Gi-Oh for longer than a week. To watch the anime with all it's diversity is one thing and then to watch the actual card game, esp competitively is a completely different thing. Can't keep them initiated and it shows.
I’m amazed. This is probably the most diverse format since before DUEA and comparable even to Modern in MTG which to me is ducking incredible… and people don’t like it 🙃🙃🙃
The majority likes it ,it's just the "pros" that have an issue with it.
@@eduardowhiteknight6110 I'm not a pro and I hate the gameplay of this format. Every round goes to time.
nah just bad deck builder competitive player he can't frauding 2-3 tier 1 format
Modern is not diverse. It's scam, elementals, and maybe a few other decks
If you’re comparing this format with DUEA ima have to disagree… with prejudice.
Pak is just a sore loser. He wants another Tear 0 format where everyone is playing the same deck.
Those formats are easier to deal with
@@MaliEndz and boring af.
@@VladaBB still better formats to play in for competitive events. And them being boring is subjective because people still enjoyed two/three deck formats and it was easier for rogue to shine because there are clear decks to prepare for while nobody is ready for yours. Cant really say the same now
@@MaliEndzhard disagree. It's always been about drawing the out. Diverse formats just mean you need to stop using weak disruptions like ash or nibiru and play more in archetype cards for options and more full stop cards like dark ruler no more, droll and lock, and trap cards for protection/interruption. Build more towards your own deck not your opponent's. Side deck for whatever your deck is weak against.
@@fernandomaxis6550 not necessarily, if you enter an event with a deck that sees hardly if any representation and you play it well, it doesn’t matter if your opponent has the out. They may as well just not know what your deck does. Its like back in 2018 when a world chalice deck won an event, I took Punk therion to a regional and bubbled out top cut, nobody was prepared but I was prepared for the meta and so was everyone else and it naturally gives you that advantage. You cant deck build like that anymore because you may play techs that deal with 6-9 of these decks in format but doesn’t do anything to the other 10. You are also 100% at the mercy of the pairings because you can prepare for the top 5 decks in the room and play against nothing but tier 2-3 decks. This is what we complain about because it’s happening alot
Pure ego. When they win it's because of their skill, when they lose it's because of bad luck/format
Oh no decks are cheaper! So many things, oh no i can't just money gap my opponent by having the tier 0 deck.
Tier 0 makes the one deck uber expensive, this is the best for the game to get actually players.
No card game has a deck that can counter every matchup, you just have to play and try things out. The format still isn't even figured out. Maybe a new combination of cards comes up.
Also balanced? Cardgame is draw dependant! Also you have to pick the correct deck for the meta.
It's been a week? Just play the cardgame. Also Rescue Ace seems to be the deck that has the highest chance to top, so it has the highest amount of winning matchups.
I think that this is just a bad take, by far...
THE COMMENTS HAVE SPOKEN
Also I HOPE RIKKA WINS EVERY EVENT FOREVER
I actually like this format bc you really have to think
Pak just wants a way to be able to press an instant win button vs a deck that a majority of people are playing. I'm sorry, it just seems like he's a sore loser because he wasn't ready for something. I'm sorry, but yugioh should be a rock/paper/scissors type thing, where, in a diverse format, there are decks you'll win vs and decks you'll lose vs, in a sort of trifecta pattern.
I really don't understand how so much of Josh's current audience skews anti-comp.
People legitimately do not make a single effort to comprehend the comp mindset.
Ive played dark world since July and everytime I play Denko in my side I never meet any backrow decks. But when I don’t play it, somehow I play against Labrynth or Race
Terrible argument. This worries probably 1% of the player base because no one has been complaining and your argument is in a tournament settings which most players do not attend and even if they did, how are complaining? Since Ariseheart left people dig this format.
Obviously, I know is opinions
This format is so much better than one where you have one or two Tier 0 deck and then everything else. To me, and I by no means am a good YGO player, this sounds like the more pro players are a bit annoyed that they could be beaten by the average player because they are less prepared for every match. You have less of a chance of being prepared now than the last few formats and I think that is going to increase the competitiveness of the game.
To be fair though, I only got back into YGO this year, so what the hell do I know lol
Another terrible pak take
Well, nice "skill issue" explanation. I when you say "it is not worthy to spend time and energy to analyze the format" but in the next minutes you say "it is frustrating when you lose after you give your best", what "best" things you do?
I always don't like TCG Pro perspective because this harm the future of the game. They love monotone format. But this format come with some problem like crazy powercreep, lazy mentality, and sometimes this almost make the game pay2win because how expensive the playable cards in monotone format. This game don't need any power creep anymore to make it fresh, YGO is vert flexible card game and Konami can make unique design to make the game fresh without power creep.
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The problem why Pro have this kind of perspective because they only want something that have possibilities 100% win if they use it. Every time I watch staples discussion in older video. TCG players always love recommend a card that can stop opponent's deck completely, even if this counter card is useless other duel. They don't interested to more "balance" card that can be very useful in a certain duel, and still okay in other duels. They just want to draw a card that can turn the table completely.
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I don't thing you "auto lose" in Diverse format is that big number. Because if everything is playable, they must be in the same level to play. I think the possibilities of "auto lose" in Monotone format is bigger, except if the dominant card have crazy powercreep. In monotone format, you can easily auto-lose when your opponent play Anti-META and when your opponent randomly draw the biggest counter card from their side deck. Everything you say about "what makes diverse bad", I think this is worse in monotone format.
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Competitive scene will always difficult and frustrating. If you don't want a hard environment, just play with your friends or Solo Mode in Master Duel.
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Actually I prefer format like Conquest Format with rules "shared cards" like in Master Duel World, and without side deck. Because there are too many "unfair" cards for side deck. But guess, if Konami use this format, we will see more "competitive" player complaining.
Like, some of them really despise to adapt is beyond me (not being rude to pak, just in general). Trying to be good in every fomat is why they called you a pro, not because you are doing good in specific format.
Well said
@@ninelie0854 Nah, I cannot give respect to "Pro" player when they harm the game just because they want "easier" environment for their play.
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I don't know whether they don't aware how dangerous the Monotone format for the game in long term or they just don't care about it and only want something to show in their channel as a content.
The part that really sucks about finally having such a diverse format is that I just got really into Edison and I’m not even gonna play that much advanced 😂
Edison was amazing and holds up extremely well to this day. Yugioh was actually enjoyable back then.
I love a diverse format; is good for the casual scene, which is the one that brings the money.
This is a very high competitive player only problem. Most people, casual and semi-serious players, enjoy seeing plenty of decks go at it and see who comes out on top. Only pro players dislike this cuz they can't prepare well for it like you mentioned.
This format can definitely be frustrating at the moment, but it will be so good in hindsight. AGOV format will be the new TOSS
Pak is the legitimate pro player that complains there is no solid tier 0-1 deck that wins by you just being better at the game against other people using the same deck, this is the best format ever because you can actually be a great player by playing good and not just having THE deck, great example the last YCS, the winner had techs that no one else thought about, at least not at a competitive level and it paid off
The deck you play is literally the only think in your control. You can play in a format with 3 big decks and still lose to a random teir 2. Pak is bitching
It’s hilarious how the comment section just ignores literally everything joshua is saying in the video
True
It's hilarious how the comments understand the point Josh is making but disagree and you just assume people not agreeing with him means they didn't listen to his argument.
nah most of them are completely missing the point
@@HumanoidCableDreads when the responses are literally "no pak just bad" they didnt listen lol
@@ZachButler92 You can read the comments with a lot of replies in it, and you will find the discussion why they don't agree with Josh's point. Or this is maybe difficult for YGO players. But if you *read* the comments with longer paragraph, they usually have good reason for their disagreement.