Football Referee Reacts to Backchat to Rugby Referees! - What would I do differently or the same?
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- Let's take a look at some incidents of backchat during Rugby matches and see if I, as a Football Referee would do anything differently or the same.
Original Video: • Referee Backchat in Rugby
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It's all about respect. In NZ we're taught from 5 years old that you do not answer back to the referee and only the captain is allowed to speak to the referee. Your taught to accept the referees call regardless of what you think we're told to shut up and get back on position and be ready immediately
It would seem TJ Perenara was taught the complete opposite because he ALWAYS talks back to the referee.
@@conorcahill5422 tbf he does know the rules better than some of them
@@conorcahill5422 but also all halfbacks tend to be like that
Soccer players are the complete opposite. They’re never afraid of football referees especially when they surround the football ref.
Rugby referees prefer it when players keep their mouths shut towards them especially if a player is not the team captain cause referees prefer to speak to captains and players that they want to speak to if a ref calls over a player’s name or number.
In the NRL Cameron Smith was a master at talking to the refs without stepping over the line that would get him put in the sin bin or sent off.
The more I see the more disappointed I become with the football authorities FAILING to support and backup the match officials.
I think the Arsenal vs Leeds game was a great example of how Xaka did a bad challenge but a similar incident happened a few moments later. Only the later was punished. If you had TMO rather than VAR then I would hope the outcome would be more consistent
Honestly the touching is more common than you would imagine, rugby players and referees usually don’t take it as a sign of disrespect unless clearly obvious
The laws about advancing 10m/yards after dissent used to occur in football for about 5 years between 2000 and 2005 but was scrapped because they found out that by advancing 10 yards made it trickier for the attacking team. The target in football (I.e. the goal) is much smaller than in rugby I.e the try line. Therefore in rugby advancing 10m is much more of an advantage.
That is why I say: the football goal should be 2 feet higher.
Mind you; it will be 2 feet higher on the other side too. How much more fun would that be?
That's what barnes was threatening when he said "you ask for a yellow card you get one", there are rules in rugby that fall under actions not in the spirit of the game, which asking for a player to be carded falls under. Although you get players like Alun wyn jones who are wind up merchants who will point out loudly to a ref what another player is doing to them eg "his arm is on my neck ref" to get another player carded or a penalty issued. one falls within the rules one doesn't.
I'll keep my comments to just one example today ;-)
I'm a referee in both football and handball.
If a player, or a coach, yells (or in any other ways) for a yellow/red card (or a 2-minut suspension in handball), I will gather the captains and tell them, that BOTH teams has now been given a warning to NOT to that again, and any player/coach who does it for the rest of the game, will be "awarded" a yellow card (in football) or a 2-minut suspension (in handball).
It still happens in about half of my games with adult men ("adult"), and I then give them a yellow card or a 2-minut suspension. No exceptions, no other warnings. One warning and done...
If a player or coach calls me a "cheat", or in ANY way hints that I'm not neutral, they take no further part in that game, without warning, without exceptions. Easy and done...
I think that must be the same in all sports (I hope) that if you get called a cheat they are off!
I think it says something about the respect between refs and players when the ref says "Ask for a yellow card and you'll get one", rather than go straight in and give a card. It shows that a 'friendly' warning is enough. And perhaps it also shows that the ref understands that respect and self-control aren't always easy in the heat of the game, but if you can get it with a few words, that's better than with a punishment. After all, the aim is good sportsmanship rather than penalising.
I was (until recently - newly retired after 25 years) a rugby ref. At my level (county) players don't speak to you out of turn, well not more than a couple of times because you've briefed them pre-match not to. If they start then a couple of penalties later they magically stop. Also, the captain in rugby really earns his money, the ref will go through him to communicate to the players in his team, if the ref calls the player and captain then they know it's more serious (as evidenced by several of your clips).
I would never touch a player (~10:00) and neither would any ref I know. Maybe this (SA) one knows the player? I was as surprised as you.
Regarding players asking for a yellow, would you really give him a yellow card the first time they did it? Get the player and captain in, threaten him and it stops. If he does it a second time then carry out your threat. You don't have any clips of players being sent off (yellow'd) because they've heeded the warning. Although there's a few examples of it (ETA asking for a yellow) happening, in my experience, it doesn't happen too much.
As a Glos fan looking at the incident at 12:39 with Ludlow arguing with Poite just shows how far he's matured in the past 2 years!
Thats great to hear!
The simple rule is that if you’re not the captain you simply cannot speak or say something to the ref like the way soccer players do and you must stay away from the match referee unless the ref wants to talk to you.
My approach is to allow the infringing players to ask for clarification if they didn't understand what they did wrong but only at a suitable stoppage.
Yeah excactly the ideal time would be when the ref has stopped the clock ⏰
@@oisinkierancoyle5518 After a kick to touch or between whistle and setting up a kick at goal are also good for quick conversations and don't even need time to be stopped. Could be as short as
"Sir, I didn't mean to fall over the tackle and got up immediately! It wasn't a problem the last time."
"There was an imminent attempt to jackal the ball right at that time and you prevented it. Otherwise it would have been ok!"
That’s correct players are supposed to call the ref sir instead of hey ref. 🏉
Rob you are class
Observing other sports
And appreciating enjoying
And your opinion means a lot old men in rugby
Because we are seeing more and more rugby players gobbing off
It’s coming in to youth rugby
Flipping embarrassing
Cheers Rob
Cheers mate 😁
We used to have the option of an “10 yards” in field hockey (from 1995). We could use it for dissent ir a subsequent offence.
However, this was changed about 10 years ago and we now manage dissent or subsequent offences by a green card (2 min sin bin).
It’s quite effective!😄
In football it shouldn't be a ten yard push it should just be a straight yellow, seeing as there is no sin bin system and as you say the impact of territory isn't the same as in rugby
Well thats the thing, we have sin bins at the lower levels and they work great. But whats the point if its not in the top levels such as Premier league. Thats what the kids watch and they are the next generation of players.
@@RobReacts1 Exactly Rob why have it just for the lower levels and not the money tiers IE League 2 to Premier League and should be all around the world. It would also stop the Hollywood players also if they got sin binned.
@@RobReacts1 I think there is a lot to be said about the corruption amongst the governing bodies of all sports and unfortunately corruption only increases as the finances do and that accounts for an awful lot of footballs issues in the top tier. An example would be the refusal by clubs to ban in any meaningful way supporters (ultras and such) who are cause issues in the crowds both inside and outside the stadiums
In my role we employ the VADE model (Voluntary, Advided, Directed, Enforced), whereby I will attempt to advise customers of the offence that they are committing. It is interesting how many people believe they know what my powers are more than I do, how many are disrespectful and even abusive while I explain the offence, and think that somehow being abusive will result in a better outcome for them, it is not the case.
I have had conversations with several customers who have identified as rugby players, and I have used the analogy of being like the referee and I'm there to uphold the rules, it has so far had positive results.
I wonder if my example of asking a player to stop swearing otherwise he will get in trouble would get a better response with a football player or rugby player?!
Re: the touching, I think it may have been to emphasise to the player that the ref was talking and the player needed to listen. I think it's OK, and there's a great deal of touching in rugby anyway - although it isn't all that gentle! 😂
Also there could be a cultural element to it.
My 16 year old has played rugby since he was 5 and I was the one who took him every week. He started playing football again this season, after a break of 4 years, and I’ve watched 2 of his matches. I was shocked at the amount of aggressive swearing, the constant whining at the ref and the unsporting behaviour on show that no one seemed bothered about. As a parent, I much prefer the example being set in rugby.
I completely agree. The culture is dreadful. This links to my response to your other comment on this video. Temperatures of players is too volatile.
Luke Pearce 13:17 top class ref.
@10:20 south african refs do tend to touch players, its just something that happens here, from ground routes to senior level. Not all but most do, i didn't mind it as a player as most of our refs are decent and have a sense of humor. I was captain of my school team and for my provincial team a schools level and I cant recall myself in a situation where i found that a ref made me feel threatened or got too physical. Touching is part of our social behavior in rugby here and dont mind it at all, some bum slaps high fives and chest pokes from refs when you were naughty all good. Miss it...
16:00 Johnny Sexton, great player that he was, was far too fond of mouthing his opinions when they weren't needed, which is a part of why he was not a universal fan favourite. It might have been different if he used a bit of humour or a lighter touch.
I've never refereed at a high level at least, I have officiated at a Sunday league game and booked two players for arguing and giving out sly elbows. They were both apologetic but I warned both sides I was brought up with rugby and will referee the game as I would a rugby game, both the gents were locals so I knew would of only played rugby at school. After the warning of the yellow card they stopped the messing about and just played the game, zero back chat and I even disallowed a goal the captain came and asked and I explained why he accepted my reply and got on with the game.
17:05... Silvère Tian was a player for Oyonnax ("oh-yo-nah") here, and other clubs in Top14 and ProD2. He also was international player for Sénégal, his native country.
In this sequence, he says : "Tu fais chier, il n'y a rien !". This is hard to translate, but it goes a bit like this : "You're taking the shit out of me, there's nothing [no foul play] here !". And he's using the "tu" (which is familiar, and used for relatives/friends/kids only) instead of the "vous" (more distant and respectful, aptly suited here). For this behaviour and talking, he was suspended for 36 weeks (after appealing) by the discipline commitee of the FFR. He and his club did not appeal a second time.
The power of having a small penalty like the 10m is much more powerful than having a big penalty like a (football) penalty. There is no such thing in football. The smallest is a free kick and it can only be taken at the spot of the infringement, but it shouldn't be, yet the rules give no leeway here.
You have shown you do similar decisions, I think its how the players show respect to the ref that's different, I'd like football players to show the same respect, but they are a bit more "prima donnas", great video though!!! I.m gonna subscribe to see more!!!
I think moving the free kick to 10m closer to the opposing team's goal, is a great idea it would make players least likely to wanna argue foul calls.
Most of these decisions were made in the moment and barely had tmo to truly see what happened and most refs just go off by what they see and that’s where rugby refs final decisions can be wrong, the problem in rugby is the higher ups are never wrong and always right, sounds similar to the French FIA president who was responsible for allowing Alan Prost to win the F1 championship by DQ Aryton senna when he went through a slip road thanks to Prost crashing into him, politics have always ruined sportsmanship
There is a number of instance of team mates saving a player from further trouble by dragging him back. Is that a common feature in football as well?
In hockey they advance 10m as well, it works there as well. But there are time penalties for cards as well, that does help
Great post dude!🏴
I was waiting for a player to tie in the Specsavers sponsorship, that some of the referees wear on their shirts, to an unfavourable refereeing decision.
Ha, no referee - no match. You should sign up for a refs course mate.
I think there should be three cards in football, one as a warning (say for swearing, disrespecting decisions, diving or excessive fouling ) one for continuing doing what your doing and final red.
I think that in football referees do not have enough power. I would to see, the next time a ref' is surrounded by players demanding this card or that kind of decision, then the ref should be allowed to card any player that does not back of. Yellow for the first time and if they persist then give a red card.
When they say “that should be a yellow” it’s worse than football as a yellow card in football won’t USUALLY have a devastating blow to a team. The opposition have an extra player for 10 minutes which is a massive advantage
The lack of respect for football refs is systematic, it is accepted from the top down, its a hell of alot better bow than it was in the late 90s early 2000s but its still a problem
It would be interesting to see what would happen in football if a yellow card was an immediate ten minutes in the sin bin.
Well for dissent we have sin bins at lower levels and they work well. But whats the point if its not at the top level
I would agree with the referee/umpires not touching players. There was an incident in the AFL back in 1997 when one player was mouthing of to another player, and the referee went over to calm the angry player down. That player shoved the umpire, which resulted in a 9-week suspension, which was the first of its kind for contact with an umpire in the AFL. Funnily enough, a few weeks later, an umpire was backing away from the play while another player was running towards it. The player tried to avoid the umpire, who kept getting in his way, causing the player to jump in the umpire's back.. no penalty, fine, suspension, nothing.
Fast forward to now where they have rules in place where shaking hands between players and umpires is it, unless it can be demonstrably shown to be accidental contact.. otherwise fine and/or suspension. Referees in soccer need to be given the power to deal with the backchat they get as every other sporting code with umpires/referees has those rules.
I’ve always been coached (and I’ve coached others) to never march someone 10m back to back. First one is a penalty + 10m advance , second time Is a sin bin (yellow card).
I love that Welsh accent
Just the Australian cricket team, yeah
Loved this
For starters football players would be crying with their mascara running down their faces. 😢
hi rob...i hope you can react to recently match malaysia vs vietnam aff...in that match the referee had act of unfairness toward malaysian player...because it clearly can be see in the game...because of the act malaysia struggle in game...im a fan from malaysia...i hope you can react to that
I think the 10 minute off rule would be good for football...
Well we have sin bins in the lower leagues of football for dissent and they work great
the world football association is a joke, they should of put out a message to referees decades ago, any back chat the player gets a card the colour of the card should be what is said. But the difference is rugby used to be played by amateurs for the love of the game. When a mass of players rush towards a referee each and every one of them except the captain should receive a card, even if it means some or one of them gets a red due to previous card. I have played and watched both sports, football only as an adult as rugby was the only sport in school. I have always preferred go watch rugby as it's more polite and decent behaviour on the field and terraces. Football can learn a lot from rugby and actually support the referees. With football players get away with far too much bad behaviour and way too much mouth.
I would hope that any ref in any sport wouldn't resort to cheating now-a-days. But, going back to the 70\80s I've seen a few blatantly biased refs in rugby league. To call a spade a shovel... that's cheating.
Well personally and I would think of every referee I know wouldnt cheat. We couldnt care less who wins.
@@RobReacts1 I would hope so, but it wasn't always so. Eg. Referee team A to the letter of the law, but ignore the same things that team B does (turn a blind eye), then in the last 10 minutes even up the penalty count so it looks ok on paper.
10:00 I don’t really get your issue with touching. Seems a bit of a weird thing to have a problem with. Also, in many countries touching is a common part of how people communicate and is unconsciously/instinctively done.
It's about respect of someone's personal space. During the heat of a game it can be temperamental as it is. But I stress that I wouldn't touch a player either as they could mistake it for an aggressive action.
In the 2020 nrl grand final Storm we’re up 26-0 or 26-6 and Penrith got 3 try’s in a row …the ref then sent off a Storm player …cam Smith (the best player in the world) also his last game and captain of the Storm was heard in the refs mic later they showed it after the game saying something like it’s been a boring game your just trying to help them back in the game …the ref just told him to go away…if it was anyone else and not cam Smith he would’ve been sent or 10 in the bin but cause it was Cam they let it go …turns out storm won and cam ended up retiring but honestly even I found it a bit rude
So yes, you have a point that it goes along the lines of what I said about being called a cheat but without being called a cheat. That sort of goes down to the refs tollerance rather than written in stone.
So why is it football referees can’t take a chance and change up to no nonsense play acting and bad language just like they do in rugby. You get hit so hard in rugby, 🏉, yet they just get up and carry on. Footballers get a little knock on the shine. They’re rolling around for 5 mins. Just send the guy off for play acting. Why is that not a rule, I’ll never know. If a rugby player got tapped like a footballer. He’d be up and straight back too the game. That’s what’s needed to be taken out of football world wide, is the Blinking dramatics and all the play acting. That’s all down too you love as a ref and all other refs. It’s actually spoiling football, cos they just get away with it it all the blinking time. REFS, STAMP IT OUT, you let them get away with it. Then basically, all the crap on the pitch is on your back. It’s honestly pathetic.
so why do whe not get the same result ?
it should be a game with rules..period
Football is discustingly unsporting
And Why don't we hear this referee chat live in football ?
They tried it a few years ago and all hell broke loose
IMHO football should require three yellow card to equal a red, but be much more liberal handing out yellows.
We should do a video together sometime Rob. I'll react to football, you react to rugby and we'll have a chin wag about pros and cons.
I’m sorry love 🥰. But Rugby refs get far more respect. Than the liver livid footballer gets away with there Refs. Footballers couldn’t give a toss. They think they rule the world. All the faking and rolling around on the floor. The footballer these days should be allowed on the Oscar’s stage. That’s why I went too rugby. Far better game, no fartassing about it they just get touched. Football has got out of control. GIVE ME RUGBY 🏉 ANY DAY. BUT, I won’t watch another football match. 😮😮😮😮😮😮😮
I’ve never thought about it from the refs point of view, not UK sports as you know I’m not a Pom lol. Yeah the players sometimes can get angry and ‘spit the dummy’ but umpires have to generally keep their cool and call the shots as they see them, also as you said. Umpires are human and inevitably can’t be correct 100% of the time, but I bet they are trained to be totally honest, they don’t have a favourite side. Who’d want to be an umpire? lol, oh you
So football and rugby, is that what I’m watching lol. Footballers give you mor lip?
Footballers undoubtably give more lip! But we are given less power to deal with these incidents. In football its apart of the game to be abusive sadly, but in rugby due to bad behaviour being cracked down upon, it means it happens a lot less often!
@@RobReacts1 what? You don’t have the power to deal with it. That’s crazy. If you were a teacher. or someone in charge of a group of people adults or children, they usually have the power to deal with the situation or pass it on to a higher power. So it teaches kids and adults it’s ok to give someone verbal abuse with no consequences. Not good. Is there a tribunal or anyone they can be reported to if they really go overboard, I understand getting cranky and them letting of steam. Anything more, they should face the consequences of the actions. I hope you go home and have a good whinge or umpires get together to vent.
@@bernadettelanders7306 So we have Sin Bins at lower levels for dissent, and we can send off for abusive language. Of course we have yellow and red cards however, maybe this video i did will explain a little better. ruclips.net/video/4GD6xddGlmU/видео.html
@@RobReacts1 lower levels like club? And why isn’t it in higher levels of play?