That is the procedure we use to calibrate our precision levels. Starrett gives the same procedure in their introductory notes to the "Levels" section of their catalog. When we do the calibrations, we make sure of the following: 1. Level and surface plate are at the same temperature. I call this "normalized"- probably a misuse of the term. I like to let the levels sit on the surface plate for a few hours, if not overnight if there are extreme temperature differences (like a level that was in its box out in a vehicle in winter). 2. Clean the surface plate and level contacting surfaces well. 3. Using the heel of your hand, swipe over the surface plate and level base to feel for any slight burrs or dings. If you feel any, stone them off using a small stone. For burrs or dings that you can feel, I use a "hard India" stone and something very light like "LPS" or similar. When you are done with any stoning, wipe things down with lint-free wipers, such as "Kimwipes" (industrial grade tissues). At home, I use toilet paper. 4. If no burrs or dings are felt, I "kiss off" the contacting surface of the level. Lightly stone the level contacting surface with a smooth, hard Arkansas stone. I just give the contacting surface of the level a rub with the Arkansas stone, dry. 5. I use a "Sharpie" marker to outline the position of the level on the surface plate. 6. Position the level within the marked outline and note the reading. Follow what Leigh wrote to adjust the level. We call this "bucking in" the level. 7. When you are done with this "bucking in", you should be able to turn the level end for end and have the reading repeat. A Starrett 98 level is a precision level and is fairly easy to buck in. One graduation on the vial = 0.005" per foot. If you do this exercise with a Starrett 199 level , one graduation on the vial = 0.0005" per foot. Starrett calls their 199 series levels "Master Precision Levels". I call bucking-in a 199 Level "Chasing my tail". I have bucked in levels out in the field on any convenient flat surface such as machined & ground casing flanges on turbines. I have used the table of a Bridgeport or the flat way of a big LeBlond lathe as a flat surface to buck levels in. If you do not have a surface plate and put the level down on a flat surface, check that there is no "rock". The level must seat solidly on the flat surface. If you use a piece of plate glass or a large flat piece of metal, you must make sure that level sits solidyl on it with no "rock". If you can;t come up with a surface the level will sit solidly on, you can create one. To do this, you will need to shim one end of the level so the ends sit soldily. You can use shim stock or even something like a playing card. I did this once or twice out in the field with a level that was out of adjustment. I was doing a favor to a friend of a friend. He had a small sawmill and was setting up an old wood planer. He had an old Starrett 98 level that did not repeat its readings and had no really good flat surface to calibrate the level on. The planer tables were about the best machined surfaces in the guy's mill and those tables were not quite flat as a result of wear and years of rough conditions. Having no really good flat surface, I created a reference surface by shimming one end of the area the level was to sit on. The flattest surface was not realy that flat, and the level rocked a slight amount. I taped the shims down with ordinary Sctoch tape- made the shims large enough so the level sat on them, not the tape. I got the level bucked in fine and did the best I could with the old planer. Once you have the shims in place on the one end, you must not move them while you are "bucking in" the level. It comes down to establishing a solid reference "plane" or reference surface that the level is always seated in for adjustment. The business of "Stoning" off surfaces is something I was taught to do routinely. Many machinists and toolmakers as well as millwrights will "stone off" contacting surfaces. You are not looking to take off any measurable amounts of metal. What you are looking to do is to insure there are no slight burrs or raised areas of metal. Routine handling of precision surfaces can result in these tiny burrs or raised areas. The heel of a person's hand is often the best means of detecting any such burrs or dings. You might be surprised to see that careful stoning and cleaning can make quite a difference in accuracy and repeatability of a precision level.
Gary Casteel #1 I use the term “Soak” like in heat treating time requirements. #5 be careful of ink thickness from the Sharpie. Let it dry and usually one light pass with a very fine stone is good. The 98’s, all sizes, have a resolution of .005” Lenier foot. The 199 master has a resolution .0005” foot. The Granite Surface has to have a defined resolution also from the manufacturer. same with cast surface plates. The heat from your hands can be a factor also. 3 precision machine jacks method works the best on any work bench environment
I never thought of adjusting an angle plate to find a level plane on my surface plate. I should have no problem calibrating my level armed with that little nugget of information! Thanks David
Pierre, I was "learned" about Old 98 levels back when I was knee high to a grasshopper was that you should never slide a machinists level. Always pick it up and place it down where it belongs. Sliding them on stones, Whether granite or slate, is of course abrading them. Old 98's that have been "slid" over and over, over the years end up on eBay and not handed down from masters to an apprentice. The bases become untrue and eventually need to be sent back to Starrett to be properly reground. Just a good habit. Thanks.
For usual day to day use you're right, as for the calibration or anything that relates to metrology on a granite table, you slide your parts in order to eliminate all possible dirt or grit from being caught under, one of the most important step in precise measurements is cleanness, where you keep on wiping your table and parts to be measured, best and most sensitive wiping tool is your clean hand, this is where you feel the most and the smallest grits...
Thanks very much. Quite complex to understand for me, but it works ! In fact must find two things: a horizontal line, unknown when we begin, and the calibration.
Your surface does not have to be exactly level but it helps to be as level as possible. Take a sheet of paper and tape it down so it dosen"t move. Place your level diagonally across if you have the 12" or straight across if a smaller level. Take a pen and outline the ends of the level. Look at how far off the mark the level is, turn the level 180" around and line up the ends with the lines on the paper. Repeat the process until you have the exact same difference between marks on the vial. Your level is now perfectly calibrated. "Stoning" a surface to get the surface perfectly level is a complete waste of time and has nothing to do with calibration of a level. Turn the level 180" end to end, adjust for the same difference on vial marks, and your level is perfectly calibrated even if your surface is not level.
My granite stone is close to leveled, since it's resting on a domestic garage floating concrete floor with the four seasons it may move out level with time, if I need to align anything I'll need to find the leveled vector each time just like I demonstrated. The precision cast iron angle is there exactly for the purpose to rest as the reference for that day's operations.
@@pierresgarage2687 And that's fine but totally not necessary and more work than it has to be. Try the paper routine as I described. Also, if my Starrett shows 1 line off, it only takes one sheet of paper to bring it level. You were trying to level to 0 when you were 1/4 off the line. Nearly impossible to do. Also, the heat of your hand if you touch the vial throws everything off. Try it, you'll be surprised at how much it changes the bubble.
@@Kevin-ib4gv I'll try your method, in the video I demonstrated one way to find the leveled plane even with a misaligned unit. But in reality I also own a 199 series Master Precision level, it makes quick task of finding the leveled axis when required.
@@pierresgarage2687 just one moment, i want to add. The level is better to put on two identical Gauge blocks along the edges. Then the measurement will be more accurate, and the readings are more stable. Because the surface level can not fit snugly to the base. This will lead to the fact that the measuring base of the level will be of different lengths with a 180-degree turn. Sorry for my English.
I don't understand what you mean by "two identical", maybe you need to know I'm using a precision granite table to perform the adjustment, the precision of the table exeed the accuracy of the levels. If not, please try explaining again, or possibly a short video...
@@pierresgarage2687 Hi! I will try to explain ) I realized that you are using a granite calibration table. But the level surface may not fit snugly against it (until it is proven). Value of division depends on the measurement base (distance between points of contact). Any defect on the surface of the prism or plate will change the measuring base. Putting the level on two identical Gauge blocks, we guarantee the length of the measuring base and the value of division. PS: Here (in Russia) we use "GOST" and "Measurement Technique", which explain this moment in detail. Sorry, I could not find a similar ISO document.
I think I'm getting the idea, this is where a bottom testing is in order, if needed a lapping operation may be needed. Your calibration technique is valid in case of a irregular bottom surface of the level, but you have to use the same principle when using the level to measure anything thereafter. I'll try to perform an inking surface measure of the bottom of the level to see how flat it rests on the surface. Those levels are certified to 0.005inch per foot or 0.42mm per meter, that is not very affected by tiny defects on the base, when we get to the more precise levels with 10 times that resolution, much more care need to be taken, then, better pre-calibration testing and repair wuld be needed. Good points you bring into the discussion...!!!
Randy Richard Hi Randy, the trick is not to start going in the wrong direction and sink deeper. It rarely takes more time than in this video. There is the 12 inches with the wrong vial that I had to conclude that the vial was not lined up correctly in the tube, it doesn't take much...Went shopping again..... Thanks, Pierre
Not certain, but, I think you may not be in the leveled axis of the surface you're using... Cause when you adjust the level properly there is no other choice of being right unless the vial is really installed wrong or defective...
Peter Owens Hi Peter, like you seen it shouldn't be too bad of a task, the 15" is a little more delicate but pretty easy as well, just let me know how it went....! Thanks for comment, Pierre
Hi , reached your channel vi Randy Richard, looking forward to looking through your videos. This one is going to be very useful as I calibrate my 250mm hilger watts level and the my granite surface. Lovely clear explanation , thanks.
If you read Starrett's instructions, it says that if you're one division on either side, you're off level of .005 inch over a foot (0.42mm over a meter), this is valid for all level sizes of the 98 Series levels.
Hi, Thanks for the video even though I am a little late to viewing it. Can I assume from the calibration procedure, that it is not imperative that the surface upon which the calibration takes place, needs to be level? As long as the calibration results in the level reading the same in either direction? I have an uneven floor and want to create a flat granite table so that despite the uneven floor, the granite table is perfectly level from end to end. I was thinking of getting one of these levels for that purpose. The granite table will be about 3' x 4'.
+mjmonjure No problem about the time you watched this, there is not late time on RUclips... ;) Even on a unleveled plane, you'll have one axis that is leveled, this is what I ended up finding at first, and using the angle plate for reference. Once you have calibrated your level, it's easy to make the table leveled afterwards. Also a detail you may want to know, those precision granite tables are meant to rest on 3 points of contact, they are manufactured and calibrated in that manner, they should be also used that way. (The stand is 4 legged but the table itself is resting on 3 points) Thanks for comment, if you need more info just ask... Pierre
mjmonjure I'm a little late to the party and I'm sure you have built and installed your table. In the future may I suggest something that I learned from granite installers? Once you figure out what lengths your table legs should be, make a template of the table out of one by stock. Its easier to dial in wood legs by cutting or adding shims.
Buenos días soy de México y me gustaría saber cómo nivelar con un starrett 98 de 12" como se lee la parte graduada? A cuanto equivale cada línea y como saber cuánto subir o bajar una pieza a nivelar? O mejor dicho, como sería la fórmula para nivelar un rotor de turbina? No hablo inglés ni se escribirlo pero lo puedo traducir, si podrían ayudarme les agradesco mucho
Hi, The series 98 levels from Starrett are able of a resolution of 0.005 inch per foot ( 0.42 meter ) per division on the vial. This means that when you are off by one division on the vial, there is a 0.005 inch out of level over a foot, if your plane is 2 feet, you'll be one end at 0 level and after 2 feet the point will be 0.010 inch lower or higher depending the direction the bubble is pointing at. So, if you raise or lower that point by 0.010 inch you'll be levelled. With this, all trigonometry formulas will be relevant in order to calculate the corrections to be made. Meaning Sin, Tan, Cosine, Pythagore, etc.... Hope this helps you, if not just let me know what else you may need to know. Pierre
Hi Pierre - Thanks for this. Am I correct that the bubble moves when you rotate the level/angle plate because the granite plate itself has not been precisely leveled? In other words, it's possible to use this procedure to calibrate a level, even without access to a perfectly level surface - correct? -Chris
bx2200 Hi Chris, you're correct, my granite plate isn't perfectly leveled cause I moved it and not performed the leveling yet. You have to find the one and only the one axis that is leveled, like you've seen it's not very difficult, there would be a limit to how a table would be out of level... With a little patience you could get the same results. Thanks for your support, Pierre
@Tony Wilson For the moment the border is closed with the US, hope it stays that way until things get better on their side.... Over here most places are now open, things with bars aren't always people to exert the most clever beheavior, I'm afraid that we get back even worse than the peak we had. Australia is a huge country with many climates, they only forgot to include cool and cold... lol You make me envious for you're not having snow... Sigh...!!! We could have a couple of beers and spend some time talking about Trump and the numerous WTF moments... I'll spare the channel from expanding on the subject... Cheers, from sunny Canada and quite high temps, 30 C and over for many days now.
I do not understand why you keep moving the angle plate while you make adjustments? For example you found perfect spot to adjust from, than you make an adjustment, flip the level around to see how close you are to a perfect reading on each side. Then you move the angle plate away from the calibration axis. Doesn't that make the process more complicated or is there some part of the process I'm missing?
Achisachis73 At this moment you also have to be on the leveled axis of the table, then, yes you have your level calibrated, the precision depends on the care you bring to get the closest to that leveled axis... Sorry if I'm late getting back, cause RUclips notices on comments isn't always constant on noticing me in the Email section... Thanks for the interest, Pierre
Sorry i havent elabotared more. My question is 1 deviation is equivalent to how many angle. I have a spirit level of 0.05mm/1mm sensitivity. Then if i want to use it to measure the angle, how would i be able to read it? Or convert the reading to angle. Thanks bro
I suppose that the real number could be more like .05mm/1000mm (1 meter)??? If so: Sin-1(Angle) = Hyp/opposite Sin-1= .05mm/1000mm Sin-1(.00005) = 0.002864788deg. = 0 deg., 0 minute, 10.3132 sec (per .05mm division from leveled) If my calculation is all right This is a real small angle...
Thanks for shared the video.. but i am using same level and the bubble is not spread enough to the first larger division ( which one is third from the center ) is it possible. or it needs calibration ?Please guide me on this Bhavesh
bhavesh patel Hi Bhavesh, not certain exactly what you mean by " which one is third from the center " is the vial installed off center or is the bubble off center...??? One thing to check is, that if you put the level on any surface, f you turn the level around 180 degrees, the bubble should be exactly in the same position left or right. Regardless of the fact that that table is leveled or not. If this does not help, is it possible for you to make a short video or send pictures, or, even an Email with some drawings? My Email is : wledpierre@gmail.com Pierre
I've been using my Starret level for the past 20 years, leveling pool tables. Yesterday I found the air bubble elongated. Instead of an inch long, it's like 4 inches long and I can't see the ends of the bubble. Why did this happen and whats the solution? Thank you
+Albert Markasky Seems like your vial just lost some liquid, you might need to replace it, Starrett makes replacement available... Let me know how it goes. Thanks for viewing, Pierre
+pierre beaudry , yes, I agree but I don't know how to disassemble and what is the liquid in the vial? Do you have Starret's pn\hone #? Thanks for your help Pierre. Al
Albert Markasky You won't be able to refill the vial, there to my knowledge 2 vial sizes, you can look it up on their site, they have a part list along with the level description. Like the 12 inches or the 6 inches are 2 different size vials, try those links if it fits the ones you have... www.starrett.com/metrology/product-detail/98-12 www.starrett.com/metrology/product-detail/98-6
Reminds me of my second day on the job as a mason laborer... they asked me to go get the level bubble fluid. I didn't fall for it. But sounds like you actually need some (well, a new vial).
conceptually it took me too waaay long to figure out that all it has to do is have the same reading on both sides to be considered calibrated. I kept thinking it had to show perfect level on both sides to be considered calibrated. I was on a flat but unlevel surface thinking I could make the bubble center but now I realize its impossible. In this vid i think he needed to lock in X & Y axis because his flat surface had some high spots if he was a few mm difference when rotating. I guess it barely matters.
Just found this video and it helped me adjust the level. Tera has a starrett 98 . i dont have a surface plate si i had to use my counter byt i marked the counter so i could put the level back in the same spot when i spun it around. I would call that grossly adjusted . what do you do if the bubble does not fill up thw space between the main lines/
Hi Scott, even a surface plate isn't perfectly leveled on all axis, so you need to find the leveled axis, then work from there... Doesn't matter if the bubble isn't filling fetweens the lines, as long as it's evenly spaced on each sides. With this method you should be able to get the level very accurately calibrated, just needs a litle care and patience. Cheers to you and Tera, Pierre
the bubble is not supposed to move when you rotate the level. You are doing a calibration poorly due to an unleveled surface plate. Use a master precision level and level that rock before doing any calibration of levels. Once you do that, now flipping the level in either direction....the bubble will not move. Adjust the screw to move the bubble dead center
If you follow well, this video shows how to find the laveled axis on a surface that isn't perfectly leveled on all axis, this can be done even without using a reference and calibrated level. Once you get that axis you can calibrate that uncalibrated level and even tweek your reference surface and get a perfectly leveled tool and referenc surface starting from all uncalibrated tools....
Not sure of what you ask, but if it's to know how much out of level you are, each division equals 0.005" ( 0.42mm ) out of level per 12 inches ( 30.48cm ), if not just let me know...
@@gilbertpd80 Let's say we got a fairly calibrated level, when the bubble is perfectly centred between the longer lines, you're levelled, if on the other hand you measure another surface and your bubble is one full division away from center, then, you're 0.005" out of level over one foot distance, no mater the length of the level, the direction of the high side is depending on what side the bubble is sitting, you can figure this out by just hand playing the level and see what side it goes. If you're more than one line off in the same direction as before then you add another 0.005", if you reach 2 full lines then, the total deviation over that foot is now 0.010", and so on, if you on;y get partial distance between the lines you will approximate in a linear fashion.
Maybe another detail, on those types of levels you can quantify the results cause those levels are calibrated and that each line is given a precise value, not valid for just normal uncalibrated level available for cheap. Let me know if I addressed your concerns... 🙂
Sorry but that level is NOT calibrated. From the start of the video you can see the cross bubble is past the line opposite the angle block then when you spin it the bubble does not go past the line. This means that the parallelism between the glass vial and the foot of the lever has been lost. That level needs to be either checked for burrs and if none are found sent in for re-grinding.
It is.....!!!! What ever you say or perceived, that level is on the leveled axis of the table and is perfectly adjusted, even compared to a unit 10 times more sensitive, maybe, watch again the video until you undrestand... ;)
Pierre's Garage let’s agree on disagreeing. Go back and look at the video at time stamp 0:20 and 0:45 and look closely at the alignment of the bubble in reference to lines, if it was truly burr free and parallel the bubble would go past the line the same distance. Good day.
You sure have the right to disagree, my estimation is that by looking into the viewfinder of the camera, since the resolution isn't that of looking directly at the tool, then, it introduces some paralax errors, but, I stick with the level being right, I've just looked at it a few minutes before this comment and it's quite right since that time it got adjusted...
+Juan Carlos Soto Unfortunately I only know a few words in Spanish, hope that you'll be able to keep up with English and the image... My main language is French. Thanks for comment, Pierre
+pierre beaudry hi thankyuo.. if you can to put subtítle in spanish i work for Cemex México and is very important your información by muy people thanyou ....by...
Pierre's Garage lol , The accent give it away ! , i’m thinking you either from northern Ontario or eastern Quebec hmm ? Close ? I’m originally from New Brunswick
It's actually near Montreal, about 30 minutes drive South-East, was never able to get rid of the accent. The accent from New Brunswick is a real give away, in most cases when traveling across different regions of mostly Quebec and Canada accents are a good indication of the origin of the person. Kinda we all got our own flavor of Jean-Claude, even if he's from France, where they all have another set of flavors... ;)
You really move it around alot without marking your positions to locate your reference points theres no possible way you got a true reading with all that movement. Get a marker and make a few lines along your edges and it will give you more consistency. If I seen you calibrate this way I would make you redo any work you had done previously..Sorry not trying to put you on blast but I have no idea why you would think this was truly functional
Gary Casteel Hello Garry, Maybe you'll notice that instead of using a Sharpie, I marked my position by using a angle plate to repeat my found leveled position and lining up the level to that plate to correct the vial, I did not show on video but the level's surface was lapped a few times on very fine grit sand paper using the surface plate as reference. The tissues I use are in fact the industrial Kimwipes, those tissues produce very minimal lint, compared to toilet paper that produces too much lint to be used in any precision environment... ;-) The procedure was done on my 1000 pounds 36" x 36" x 6" precision granite table taken off level to show that the correct procedure can be made successfully even on a non leveled surface. As far as stoning is concerned, I will use a precise fine diamond lapping stone, and, only if needed. By experience I can assure you that his method is giving me accurate results, you can even read a comment from Starrett lower in the comments... Thanks for taking some details to my attention and for commenting, Pierre
This Starrett very poor... I buy it in italy and have a very poor system to calibrate it... Is never precise.. If you test different time, for different time give wrong meausure because is not stable the plate or so... Other problem is that the plate twisted a little
Unless the level is defective or have problems, this model of level is quite reliable and precise, as far as I'm concerned I always had great experience with those. By the way I own at least four or five of thi model in various length. To get reliable results you absolutely need to use a precision surface plate as leveled as posssible, once you found the leveled axis like in the video you'll be able to obtain reliable results.
Possible that there is a little paralax error, when filming the camera is often in the way, so I don't get a perfec angle. Just keep in mind that the principle for calibration is correct when performed in good conditions...
I think if I watched this 10 times, I still would not understand how he got the surface plate level to serve as a reference. IF you know you have a perfectly level reference surface, the rest is child's play that is poorly explained here. If you do not have a perfectly level reference, I do not think you can calibrate the level. Maybe someone else out there has a video that makes sense.
It takes time to explain the how's and why's, once you understand and are set-up, it takes much less time... Making that video took me about an extra 10 hours, hoping someone would understand the process and perform the procedure rapidly... Thanks for your comment...
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That is the procedure we use to calibrate our precision levels. Starrett gives the same procedure in their introductory notes to the "Levels" section of their catalog.
When we do the calibrations, we make sure of the following:
1. Level and surface plate are at the same temperature. I call this "normalized"- probably a misuse of the term. I like to let the levels sit on the surface plate for a few hours, if not overnight if there are extreme temperature differences (like a level that was in its box out in a vehicle in winter).
2. Clean the surface plate and level contacting surfaces well.
3. Using the heel of your hand, swipe over the surface plate and level base to feel for any slight burrs or dings. If you feel any, stone them off using a small stone. For burrs or dings that you can feel, I use a "hard India" stone and something very light like "LPS" or similar.
When you are done with any stoning, wipe things down with lint-free wipers, such as "Kimwipes" (industrial grade tissues). At home, I use toilet paper.
4. If no burrs or dings are felt, I "kiss off" the contacting surface of the level. Lightly stone the level contacting surface with a smooth, hard Arkansas stone. I just give the contacting surface of the level a rub with the Arkansas stone, dry.
5. I use a "Sharpie" marker to outline the position of the level on the surface plate.
6. Position the level within the marked outline and note the reading. Follow what Leigh wrote to adjust the level. We call this "bucking in" the level.
7. When you are done with this "bucking in", you should be able to turn the level end for end and have the reading repeat.
A Starrett 98 level is a precision level and is fairly easy to buck in. One graduation on the vial = 0.005" per foot. If you do this exercise with a Starrett 199 level , one graduation on the vial = 0.0005" per foot. Starrett calls their 199 series levels "Master Precision Levels". I call bucking-in a 199 Level "Chasing my tail".
I have bucked in levels out in the field on any convenient flat surface such as machined & ground casing flanges on turbines. I have used the table of a Bridgeport or the flat way of a big LeBlond lathe as a flat surface to buck levels in. If you do not have a surface plate and put the level down on a flat surface, check that there is no "rock". The level must seat solidly on the flat surface.
If you use a piece of plate glass or a large flat piece of metal, you must make sure that level sits solidyl on it with no "rock". If you can;t come up with a surface the level will sit solidly on, you can create one. To do this, you will need to shim one end of the level so the ends sit soldily. You can use shim stock or even something like a playing card. I did this once or twice out in the field with a level that was out of adjustment. I was doing a favor to a friend of a friend. He had a small sawmill and was setting up an old wood planer. He had an old Starrett 98 level that did not repeat its readings and had no really good flat surface to calibrate the level on. The planer tables were about the best machined surfaces in the guy's mill and those tables were not quite flat as a result of wear and years of rough conditions.
Having no really good flat surface, I created a reference surface by shimming one end of the area the level was to sit on. The flattest surface was not realy that flat, and the level rocked a slight amount. I taped the shims down with ordinary Sctoch tape- made the shims large enough so the level sat on them, not the tape. I got the level bucked in fine and did the best I could with the old planer. Once you have the shims in place on the one end, you must not move them while you are "bucking in" the level. It comes down to establishing a solid reference "plane" or reference surface that the level is always seated in for adjustment.
The business of "Stoning" off surfaces is something I was taught to do routinely. Many machinists and toolmakers as well as millwrights will "stone off" contacting surfaces. You are not looking to take off any measurable amounts of metal. What you are looking to do is to insure there are no slight burrs or raised areas of metal. Routine handling of precision surfaces can result in these tiny burrs or raised areas. The heel of a person's hand is often the best means of detecting any such burrs or dings. You might be surprised to see that careful stoning and cleaning can make quite a difference in accuracy and repeatability of a precision level.
Excellent, thanks!
@steve gale Bruh...if you're leaving "body grease" on a surface, you need to jump in a shower and scrub your nasty ass!
Gary Casteel #1 I use the term “Soak” like in heat treating time requirements. #5 be careful of ink thickness from the Sharpie. Let it dry and usually one light pass with a very fine stone is good. The 98’s, all sizes, have a resolution of .005” Lenier foot. The 199 master has a resolution .0005” foot. The Granite Surface has to have a defined resolution also from the manufacturer. same with cast surface plates. The heat from your hands can be a factor also. 3 precision machine jacks method works the best on any work bench environment
I love people like you. ty (apprentice millwright here)
IMO, using precision ground stones on the plate and all mating surfaces is crucial when looking for precise and repeatable results.
I never thought of adjusting an angle plate to find a level plane on my surface plate.
I should have no problem calibrating my level armed with that little nugget of information!
Thanks
David
Glad you got something from the video...
Thanks for viewing and for taking a moment to leave a comment, Pierre
I just purchased a 98-4 Starrett level,Thank you for the very detailed instructions on how to calibrate it
Those are quite reliable tools, and, quite easy to calibrate when you get the right method...
Thanks for your comment, Pierre
Pierre, I was "learned" about Old 98 levels back when I was knee high to a grasshopper was that you should never slide a machinists level. Always pick it up and place it down where it belongs. Sliding them on stones, Whether granite or slate, is of course abrading them. Old 98's that have been "slid" over and over, over the years end up on eBay and not handed down from masters to an apprentice. The bases become untrue and eventually need to be sent back to Starrett to be properly reground. Just a good habit. Thanks.
For usual day to day use you're right, as for the calibration or anything that relates to metrology on a granite table, you slide your parts in order to eliminate all possible dirt or grit from being caught under, one of the most important step in precise measurements is cleanness, where you keep on wiping your table and parts to be measured, best and most sensitive wiping tool is your clean hand, this is where you feel the most and the smallest grits...
Thanks. So simple, yet I hadn't thought to do this.
I have to admit I'v got the idea from another machinist, just like you said, it's quite simple as long as you understand the principle..... 👍
@@pierresgarage2687 and so on to another... at least some things are right with the world =)
Thanks very much. Quite complex to understand for me, but it works ! In fact must find two things: a horizontal line, unknown when we begin, and the calibration.
Thanks for your comment and glad it helped, Pierre
Thanks, just acquired a used Starrett 97-8. Now I know how to calibrate it.
Glad it helped you... 🌈👍
Thanks for taking a moment to leave a comment....
Your surface does not have to be exactly level but it helps to be as level as possible. Take a sheet of paper and tape it down so it dosen"t move. Place your level diagonally across if you have the 12" or straight across if a smaller level. Take a pen and outline the ends of the level. Look at how far off the mark the level is, turn the level 180" around and line up the ends with the lines on the paper. Repeat the process until you have the exact same difference between marks on the vial. Your level is now perfectly calibrated. "Stoning" a surface to get the surface perfectly level is a complete waste of time and has nothing to do with calibration of a level. Turn the level 180" end to end, adjust for the same difference on vial marks, and your level is perfectly calibrated even if your surface is not level.
My granite stone is close to leveled, since it's resting on a domestic garage floating concrete floor with the four seasons it may move out level with time, if I need to align anything I'll need to find the leveled vector each time just like I demonstrated. The precision cast iron angle is there exactly for the purpose to rest as the reference for that day's operations.
@@pierresgarage2687 And that's fine but totally not necessary and more work than it has to be. Try the paper routine as I described. Also, if my Starrett shows 1 line off, it only takes one sheet of paper to bring it level. You were trying to level to 0 when you were 1/4 off the line. Nearly impossible to do. Also, the heat of your hand if you touch the vial throws everything off. Try it, you'll be surprised at how much it changes the bubble.
@@Kevin-ib4gv I'll try your method, in the video I demonstrated one way to find the leveled plane even with a misaligned unit.
But in reality I also own a 199 series Master Precision level, it makes quick task of finding the leveled axis when required.
@Kevin-ib4gv that's what I do. My mind burst Into flames trying to understand all this level plane stuff.
Thank you for your great advice, we have 3 Starrett 98/12 levels we use for leveling pool tables with. This video has helped to calibrate them.
I'm glad it would help someone, thanks for letting me know that you liked, Pierre
@5:10 you gave me a good laugh “you don’t have to tightened this up like you were going to the moon and your life depended on it”
😊😊......
Thanks a lot! I calibrated my Trelle level according to your method. Very accuracy.
Glad you got the task done and thanks for taking the time to leave a comment, Pierre
@@pierresgarage2687 just one moment, i want to add. The level is better to put on two identical Gauge blocks along the edges. Then the measurement will be more accurate, and the readings are more stable. Because the surface level can not fit snugly to the base. This will lead to the fact that the measuring base of the level will be of different lengths with a 180-degree turn. Sorry for my English.
I don't understand what you mean by "two identical", maybe you need to know I'm using a precision granite table to perform the adjustment, the precision of the table exeed the accuracy of the levels.
If not, please try explaining again, or possibly a short video...
@@pierresgarage2687 Hi! I will try to explain ) I realized that you are using a granite calibration table. But the level surface may not fit snugly against it (until it is proven). Value of division depends on the measurement base (distance between points of contact). Any defect on the surface of the prism or plate will change the measuring base.
Putting the level on two identical Gauge blocks, we guarantee the length of the measuring base and the value of division.
PS: Here (in Russia) we use "GOST" and "Measurement Technique", which explain this moment in detail. Sorry, I could not find a similar ISO document.
I think I'm getting the idea, this is where a bottom testing is in order, if needed a lapping operation may be needed.
Your calibration technique is valid in case of a irregular bottom surface of the level, but you have to use the same principle when using the level to measure anything thereafter.
I'll try to perform an inking surface measure of the bottom of the level to see how flat it rests on the surface.
Those levels are certified to 0.005inch per foot or 0.42mm per meter, that is not very affected by tiny defects on the base, when we get to the more precise levels with 10 times that resolution, much more care need to be taken, then, better pre-calibration testing and repair wuld be needed.
Good points you bring into the discussion...!!!
2022 and all still relevant information.
We'll always need a calibrated level........ 😉👍
Nice demo on the levels. It can be very frustrating getting the calibrated at times. Thanks for sharing. Randy
Randy Richard Hi Randy, the trick is not to start going in the wrong direction and sink deeper. It rarely takes more time than in this video. There is the 12 inches with the wrong vial that I had to conclude that the vial was not lined up correctly in the tube, it doesn't take much...Went shopping again..... Thanks, Pierre
sorry but my spirit level is off when rotated 180 degrees, even though I adjusted it it is still off when rotated, is it broken?
Not certain, but, I think you may not be in the leveled axis of the surface you're using... Cause when you adjust the level properly there is no other choice of being right unless the vial is really installed wrong or defective...
Nice Pierre, I recently acquired 2 starrett 98s and a 15" 0.0005" master that I need to calibrate. Thanks for reminding me to do it.
Peter Owens Hi Peter, like you seen it shouldn't be too bad of a task, the 15" is a little more delicate but pretty easy as well, just let me know how it went....! Thanks for comment, Pierre
Hi , reached your channel vi Randy Richard, looking forward to looking through your videos. This one is going to be very useful as I calibrate my 250mm hilger watts level and the my granite surface. Lovely clear explanation , thanks.
Glad you enjoyed and got something from it...
I'll say a big thank you to Randy... ;)
Thank you for comment and nice words... Pierre
Sir it is very good .
Sir why not u make a vedio a series of all manual machine calibration .if possible please do sir.
Obrigado.
Bem-vindo... 😉😉
I would like to know how to read the Starrett 98?
If you read Starrett's instructions, it says that if you're one division on either side, you're off level of .005 inch over a foot (0.42mm over a meter), this is valid for all level sizes of the 98 Series levels.
nice video, thank you for sharing
Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
lsstarrett Hi, thanks for visiting and comment, Pierre Beaudry
Thanks for posting this, it was a great help.
Once you done it once, the following times get to be almost automatic..... Thanks for your comment and glad it helped you....
Hi,
Thanks for the video even though I am a little late to viewing it. Can I assume from the calibration procedure, that it is not imperative that the surface upon which the calibration takes place, needs to be level? As long as the calibration results in the level reading the same in either direction? I have an uneven floor and want to create a flat granite table so that despite the uneven floor, the granite table is perfectly level from end to end. I was thinking of getting one of these levels for that purpose. The granite table will be about 3' x 4'.
+mjmonjure
No problem about the time you watched this, there is not late time on RUclips... ;)
Even on a unleveled plane, you'll have one axis that is leveled, this is what I ended up finding at first, and using the angle plate for reference.
Once you have calibrated your level, it's easy to make the table leveled afterwards. Also a detail you may want to know, those precision granite tables are meant to rest on 3 points of contact, they are manufactured and calibrated in that manner, they should be also used that way. (The stand is 4 legged but the table itself is resting on 3 points)
Thanks for comment, if you need more info just ask... Pierre
mjmonjure I'm a little late to the party and I'm sure you have built and installed your table. In the future may I suggest something that I learned from granite installers? Once you figure out what lengths your table legs should be, make a template of the table out of one by stock. Its easier to dial in wood legs by cutting or adding shims.
Buenos días soy de México y me gustaría saber cómo nivelar con un starrett 98 de 12" como se lee la parte graduada? A cuanto equivale cada línea y como saber cuánto subir o bajar una pieza a nivelar? O mejor dicho, como sería la fórmula para nivelar un rotor de turbina? No hablo inglés ni se escribirlo pero lo puedo traducir, si podrían ayudarme les agradesco mucho
Hi,
The series 98 levels from Starrett are able of a resolution of 0.005 inch per foot ( 0.42 meter ) per division on the vial.
This means that when you are off by one division on the vial, there is a 0.005 inch out of level over a foot, if your plane is 2 feet, you'll be one end at 0 level and after 2 feet the point will be 0.010 inch lower or higher depending the direction the bubble is pointing at. So, if you raise or lower that point by 0.010 inch you'll be levelled.
With this, all trigonometry formulas will be relevant in order to calculate the corrections to be made. Meaning Sin, Tan, Cosine, Pythagore, etc....
Hope this helps you, if not just let me know what else you may need to know.
Pierre
@@pierresgarage2687 gracias
Thank you for the tutorial!
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks for the comment... 🌈👍
Awesome tutorial
Glad you liked it and thanks for your comment.... 🙂
Hi Pierre - Thanks for this. Am I correct that the bubble moves when you rotate the level/angle plate because the granite plate itself has not been precisely leveled? In other words, it's possible to use this procedure to calibrate a level, even without access to a perfectly level surface - correct? -Chris
bx2200 Hi Chris, you're correct, my granite plate isn't perfectly leveled cause I moved it and not performed the leveling yet. You have to find the one and only the one axis that is leveled, like you've seen it's not very difficult, there would be a limit to how a table would be out of level... With a little patience you could get the same results. Thanks for your support, Pierre
Great explanation! Thank you. I need to do this to my level. I have one like your 12" level.
Hi Joe, procedure works for all sizes, and type... Let me know ho it went....!
Thanks for comment, Pierre
@Tony Wilson Thanks for taking a moment to leave a nice comment, I'm located near Montreal, Canada... Pierre
@Tony Wilson For the moment the border is closed with the US, hope it stays that way until things get better on their side....
Over here most places are now open, things with bars aren't always people to exert the most clever beheavior, I'm afraid that we get back even worse than the peak we had.
Australia is a huge country with many climates, they only forgot to include cool and cold... lol
You make me envious for you're not having snow... Sigh...!!!
We could have a couple of beers and spend some time talking about Trump and the numerous WTF moments... I'll spare the channel from expanding on the subject...
Cheers, from sunny Canada and quite high temps, 30 C and over for many days now.
good video thanks for sharing your knowlage pierre.
Jamie Buckley Hello Jamie,
Thanks for comment, any question, feel free to ask.... ;-) Pierre
Very Good instructions
Glad if it could help, thanks for comment, Pierre
I do not understand why you keep moving the angle plate while you make adjustments? For example you found perfect spot to adjust from, than you make an adjustment, flip the level around to see how close you are to a perfect reading on each side. Then you move the angle plate away from the calibration axis. Doesn't that make the process more complicated or is there some part of the process I'm missing?
so as long as you have the same reading on both opposite orientations, the level is calibrated?
Achisachis73 At this moment you also have to be on the leveled axis of the table, then, yes you have your level calibrated, the precision depends on the care you bring to get the closest to that leveled axis...
Sorry if I'm late getting back, cause RUclips notices on comments isn't always constant on noticing me in the Email section...
Thanks for the interest, Pierre
Hello how you read a spirit level angle based on the sensitivity of it? Thanks!
I'm not sure to understand your question...!
Sorry i havent elabotared more. My question is 1 deviation is equivalent to how many angle. I have a spirit level of 0.05mm/1mm sensitivity. Then if i want to use it to measure the angle, how would i be able to read it? Or convert the reading to angle. Thanks bro
I suppose that the real number could be more like .05mm/1000mm (1 meter)???
If so:
Sin-1(Angle) = Hyp/opposite
Sin-1= .05mm/1000mm
Sin-1(.00005) = 0.002864788deg. = 0 deg., 0 minute, 10.3132 sec (per .05mm division from leveled)
If my calculation is all right
This is a real small angle...
Thanks for shared the video.. but i am using same level and the bubble is not spread enough to the first larger division ( which one is third from the center ) is it possible. or it needs calibration ?Please guide me on this
Bhavesh
bhavesh patel Hi Bhavesh, not certain exactly what you mean by " which one is third from the center " is the vial installed off center or is the bubble off center...???
One thing to check is, that if you put the level on any surface, f you turn the level around 180 degrees, the bubble should be exactly in the same position left or right. Regardless of the fact that that table is leveled or not.
If this does not help, is it possible for you to make a short video or send pictures, or, even an Email with some drawings?
My Email is : wledpierre@gmail.com
Pierre
I've been using my Starret level for the past 20 years, leveling pool tables. Yesterday I found the air bubble elongated. Instead of an inch long, it's like 4 inches long and I can't see the ends of the bubble. Why did this happen and whats the solution? Thank you
+Albert Markasky
Seems like your vial just lost some liquid, you might need to replace it, Starrett makes replacement available...
Let me know how it goes.
Thanks for viewing, Pierre
+pierre beaudry , yes, I agree but I don't know how to disassemble and what is the liquid in the vial? Do you have Starret's pn\hone #? Thanks for your help Pierre. Al
Albert Markasky
You won't be able to refill the vial, there to my knowledge 2 vial sizes, you can look it up on their site, they have a part list along with the level description.
Like the 12 inches or the 6 inches are 2 different size vials, try those links if it fits the ones you have...
www.starrett.com/metrology/product-detail/98-12
www.starrett.com/metrology/product-detail/98-6
Reminds me of my second day on the job as a mason laborer... they asked me to go get the level bubble fluid. I didn't fall for it. But sounds like you actually need some (well, a new vial).
thanks this really helped
Hi Partick,
Glad you got something to help you, and thank you for taking time to leave a comment, Pierre
conceptually it took me too waaay long to figure out that all it has to do is have the same reading on both sides to be considered calibrated. I kept thinking it had to show perfect level on both sides to be considered calibrated. I was on a flat but unlevel surface thinking I could make the bubble center but now I realize its impossible. In this vid i think he needed to lock in X & Y axis because his flat surface had some high spots if he was a few mm difference when rotating. I guess it barely matters.
que precio tiene ese nivel por alguien que me diga
Just found this video and it helped me adjust the level. Tera has a starrett 98 . i dont have a surface plate si i had to use my counter byt i marked the counter so i could put the level back in the same spot when i spun it around. I would call that grossly adjusted . what do you do if the bubble does not fill up thw space between the main lines/
Hi Scott,
even a surface plate isn't perfectly leveled on all axis, so you need to find the leveled axis, then work from there...
Doesn't matter if the bubble isn't filling fetweens the lines, as long as it's evenly spaced on each sides.
With this method you should be able to get the level very accurately calibrated, just needs a litle care and patience.
Cheers to you and Tera, Pierre
Pierre's Garage thanks for responding
Hi .....it's very important your información .....You should to put subtitule in spanish sir .... thanks
Thanks for viewing and for your comment...
It's possible for RUclips viewers to submit a translation for the videos, my channel allows it.
So the earth is not flat?
Depends on what you need to prove, or, who you're dealing with... 😱😂🙊🙈🙉
Thanks
You're welcome and thank you for taking the time to comment, Pierre
the bubble is not supposed to move when you rotate the level. You are doing a calibration poorly due to an unleveled surface plate. Use a master precision level and level that rock before doing any calibration of levels. Once you do that, now flipping the level in either direction....the bubble will not move. Adjust the screw to move the bubble dead center
If you follow well, this video shows how to find the laveled axis on a surface that isn't perfectly leveled on all axis, this can be done even without using a reference and calibrated level. Once you get that axis you can calibrate that uncalibrated level and even tweek your reference surface and get a perfectly leveled tool and referenc surface starting from all uncalibrated tools....
How do you read a 98 degree level
Not sure of what you ask, but if it's to know how much out of level you are, each division equals 0.005" ( 0.42mm ) out of level per 12 inches ( 30.48cm ), if not just let me know...
Everyone is counting the graduation when something is out of level. I'm having a hard time gasping on how to count and read the graduation
@@gilbertpd80
Let's say we got a fairly calibrated level, when the bubble is perfectly centred between the longer lines, you're levelled, if on the other hand you measure another surface and your bubble is one full division away from center, then, you're 0.005" out of level over one foot distance, no mater the length of the level, the direction of the high side is depending on what side the bubble is sitting, you can figure this out by just hand playing the level and see what side it goes. If you're more than one line off in the same direction as before then you add another 0.005", if you reach 2 full lines then, the total deviation over that foot is now 0.010", and so on, if you on;y get partial distance between the lines you will approximate in a linear fashion.
Maybe another detail, on those types of levels you can quantify the results cause those levels are calibrated and that each line is given a precise value, not valid for just normal uncalibrated level available for cheap.
Let me know if I addressed your concerns... 🙂
I would go crazy doing that. LOL
Mack McCurry Hi Mack, I'm not the most coordinated person, it's not as bad as it looks... ! Thanks for comment, Pierre
Sorry but that level is NOT calibrated. From the start of the video you can see the cross bubble is past the line opposite the angle block then when you spin it the bubble does not go past the line. This means that the parallelism between the glass vial and the foot of the lever has been lost. That level needs to be either checked for burrs and if none are found sent in for re-grinding.
It is.....!!!! What ever you say or perceived, that level is on the leveled axis of the table and is perfectly adjusted, even compared to a unit 10 times more sensitive, maybe, watch again the video until you undrestand... ;)
Pierre's Garage let’s agree on disagreeing. Go back and look at the video at time stamp 0:20 and 0:45 and look closely at the alignment of the bubble in reference to lines, if it was truly burr free and parallel the bubble would go past the line the same distance. Good day.
You sure have the right to disagree, my estimation is that by looking into the viewfinder of the camera, since the resolution isn't that of looking directly at the tool, then, it introduces some paralax errors, but, I stick with the level being right, I've just looked at it a few minutes before this comment and it's quite right since that time it got adjusted...
one division is how much mm
Each division is:
.005" for one foot
.42mm per meter
Thanks for watching, Pierre
please provide your e mail.id
wledpierre@gmail.com
This is not calibrating. This is only leveling the level. To calibrate you use a sine plate or sine bar.
im from México city can you speak in spanish please ...tankyou
+Juan Carlos Soto
Unfortunately I only know a few words in Spanish, hope that you'll be able to keep up with English and the image... My main language is French.
Thanks for comment, Pierre
+pierre beaudry hi thankyuo.. if you can to put subtítle in spanish i work for Cemex México and is very important your información by muy people thanyou ....by...
I did not realize that Jean-Claude Van Damme was a machinist LOL
All you see is a pair of hands, where is Jean-Claude...??? ;)
Swear it's not me... lol
Pierre's Garage lol , The accent give it away ! , i’m thinking you either from northern Ontario or eastern Quebec hmm ? Close ? I’m originally from New Brunswick
It's actually near Montreal, about 30 minutes drive South-East, was never able to get rid of the accent.
The accent from New Brunswick is a real give away, in most cases when traveling across different regions of mostly Quebec and Canada accents are a good indication of the origin of the person.
Kinda we all got our own flavor of Jean-Claude, even if he's from France, where they all have another set of flavors... ;)
Left New Brunswick long ago and for where...???
Hope you don't charge by the hour.
Hope you don't require more than an hour of service... 😁😁
You really move it around alot without marking your positions to locate your reference points theres no possible way you got a true reading with all that movement. Get a marker and make a few lines along your edges and it will give you more consistency. If I seen you calibrate this way I would make you redo any work you had done previously..Sorry not trying to put you on blast but I have no idea why you would think this was truly functional
Gary Casteel Hello Garry,
Maybe you'll notice that instead of using a Sharpie, I marked my position by using a angle plate to repeat my found leveled position and lining up the level to that plate to correct the vial, I did not show on video but the level's surface was lapped a few times on very fine grit sand paper using the surface plate as reference.
The tissues I use are in fact the industrial Kimwipes, those tissues produce very minimal lint, compared to toilet paper that produces too much lint to be used in any precision environment... ;-)
The procedure was done on my 1000 pounds 36" x 36" x 6" precision granite table taken off level to show that the correct procedure can be made successfully even on a non leveled surface.
As far as stoning is concerned, I will use a precise fine diamond lapping stone, and, only if needed.
By experience I can assure you that his method is giving me accurate results, you can even read a comment from Starrett lower in the comments...
Thanks for taking some details to my attention and for commenting,
Pierre
So what's it like to be the long, lost twin brother of "This Old Tony"? Same "knowledge". Same "voice". Different "accent".
Guess that now with all tha praise, the subscribers will rush at my door.... LOL
Now got to work on the accent, see if it works... ;)
VIS Made in Poland :)
+Marek Pudło
Thanks for watching... ;)
Exotic ;)
@JPS JPS Thanks for sharing Iguess 🙂
This Starrett very poor... I buy it in italy and have a very poor system to calibrate it... Is never precise.. If you test different time, for different time give wrong meausure because is not stable the plate or so... Other problem is that the plate twisted a little
Unless the level is defective or have problems, this model of level is quite reliable and precise, as far as I'm concerned I always had great experience with those. By the way I own at least four or five of thi model in various length.
To get reliable results you absolutely need to use a precision surface plate as leveled as posssible, once you found the leveled axis like in the video you'll be able to obtain reliable results.
Buble is not show property you watch the video
Possible that there is a little paralax error, when filming the camera is often in the way, so I don't get a perfec angle. Just keep in mind that the principle for calibration is correct when performed in good conditions...
I think if I watched this 10 times, I still would not understand how he got the surface plate level to serve as a reference. IF you know you have a perfectly level reference surface, the rest is child's play that is poorly explained here. If you do not have a perfectly level reference, I do not think you can calibrate the level. Maybe someone else out there has a video that makes sense.
You didn’t get it. If your plate slopes, there is still an axis on it which is level. You have to find that one and use that as a reference.
Good deduction, and it's even possible to find this leveled axis with an out of alingment level as demonstrated in the video.....
Too much time to calibrate, it should be done within minute.
It takes time to explain the how's and why's, once you understand and are set-up, it takes much less time...
Making that video took me about an extra 10 hours, hoping someone would understand the process and perform the procedure rapidly...
Thanks for your comment...
My wife left me for a bigger level...
too much talk.