There’s also this ancient Greek religion called Orphism, its teachings derived from literature penned by Orpheus… and as we know, Orpheus journeyed to the Underworld and back. Similarly, many denominations of Christianity believe Jesus Christ descended into hell after his death, but returned three days later as the resurrected Christ. (Messiah's tear also a reference to "Jesus wept"/his compassion in the Gospels- Luke 19:41, John 11:35). The “final boss/form” of Nyx being an egg in P3 is inspired by Orphic teachings: this cosmic egg hatched the primordial entity Phanes that then birthed the other gods. I saved a lot of the Orphic Egg stuff for another video idea I’ll get to about Nyx lore in the context of the Hashino personas lol :o On that note, I also have a part 2 video idea to this P3 and Greek tragedy inspirations I'll get to at some point lol! Thanks for your patience while the power outages moved back edits a handful of days. I absolutely LOVED working on this project back then, and fastforwarding to now-- Persona 3 is my favorite and this is very much my love letter to its cast
Also here another thing that interesting about Orphism. One of the gods they worship is Dionysus, more specially Orphic Dionysus. Part of Dionysus's origin was when Hera heard about Dionysus . She send titans to shred him or told Selma(who was pregnant with Dionysus) to tell zeus to "god it up". in which Zeus accidently kill her. Ether way Zeus saved him by sewing him on his thigh. This means Dionysus was rebirth and also mythological representation of the process of wine making. Orphic Dionysus was mixed by Zagreus, who we don't know that munch but we know he was a chronic god. sidenote this was humorsly referenced in the games hades where Zagreus and Dionysus play a prank that Zagreus and Dionysus are same person.
Do a background on my persona. It's a beautiful necked woman, porn star big breasts, big booty, cum endlessly flowing out her mouth, her private, her butt. She is always seen smiling very happy shouting "Argh", while holding a whip with a toy D at the end of her whip, she whips shadows with. "Alexis Lust Oka-me Girlish Renegade ."
Most persona usually turned into another version of that mytological character (such as Hermes and Trismegistus or Io and Hera) or into another different figure with similar stories that are considered “more succesful” for the lack of better term. For example, Orpheus went to the underworld only to save Eurydice, and he failed to do so. when Jesus died on the cross, his soul also went to the gate of hell to open it and He succesfully released all the soul there to Heaven, a process called “The Harrowing”. I think it really mirror Makoto transformation of someone who are full of “Apathy” not carimg about others or dying, to someone who apprecite life and others and sacrifice himself to save not just his friend but humanity as a whole. Io ran away from Greek after having affair with Zeus and Hera sent gnats tonattack her. She reach Egypt and become the Goddess Isis. Lucia and Juno both associate with eye. Lucia lost her eyes but she still able to see due to miracle. Juno associate with peacock, the pattern of peacock feather believed by some to be a literal eyes (or evil eyes). Also Sanada Red Vest might be inspired by Sanada Yukimura, a Japanese samurai known for its Red armor.
One detail about Orpheus worth mentioning: supposedly, after being torn to pieces by the Maenads, his severed head drifted down a river atop his own lyre, still singing. I think this explains why his head is the only part of the body to srill be organic, where all other parts are artificial.
Now that's horrifying, but I guess I can see why he was Minato's First Persona. Essentially, the trauma from his youth tore him apart at the psyche, and the only real bit that remained was his mind and sentience. That being said, like Orpheus, the only real option was to rebuild him artificially with only the head remaining since its the only part that is relatively intact.
@@goergebobicles1351that is a really really interesting thought. Chances are it wasn’t done on purpose but I’m gonna choose to go along with what you said simply because its a really cool attention to detail if true
they really put everything they had into this game. people don't appreciate that this type of thought and artistry is why the series got famous in the first place. this is John Denver hoping you're having a great day
Whoa John Denver was resurrected *and* stans Persona 3?!? 😂 Legit though, I thank you for providing the very nice car trip tunes of my adolescence ala my dad's stash. The flowers are most definitely my sisters and my brothers 🌻
P3 has the strongest aesthetic of the modern Persona. So much of the themes were woven into every aspect of the game, they really went beyond whole hog. It was beautiful.
There's also the fact that Hermes was considered a guide to lost souls on the way to the underworld. In the game, you don't get to go to Tartarus (named after a section of the underworld) at all until Junpei joins the team.
1:27:15 Also note how Thanatos has an artifical head but natural body to Opheaus' natural head artifical body. Messiah is the combination of the MC and Ryoji. Life and Death together to create the savior who died and was born again, further symbolized by him seeming to ascend upwards as he leaves Thanatos' coffins behind to slip away.
Penthesilea's Dagger is most likely just a parrying dagger. In the late middle ages, wielding a dagger in your left hand was common for defense in duels.
Mokoto really had not even a hint of hesitation in giving his life. That fact makes this game way deeper than just a game of high schoolers. The fact that he smiled as he died shows that he felt peaceful and fulfilled in his choice.
I kinda wanna add something she mentioned in Koromaru’s segment: It is said that when Orpheus lost his love, he would play mournful tunes on his lyre. The protagonist does the same thing: when his parents died, he would wear his headphones and listen to music, desperately wanting to escape this reality deep down. It really goes to show how much he has grown to love the very world that was cruel to him. Although in the story a few Gods encouraged Orpheus to venture out to bring his love back, I’m not sure what possessed the protagonist to go to Tatsumi Port Island.
The aspect of nyx that was sealed inside. Ryoji explains that he’d led makoto to finding the missing pieces of his being without meaning to@@b1tchb4by3
I think the red gem in the beak of Trismegistus is also meant to represent the Philisopher's Stone, which was thought to grant immortality and really goes with the Spring of Life skill.
With Isas (Isis), I'd argue Yukari's desire to save the MC wasn't fruitless because if she just continued to ignore her grief/true feelings and immediately went back to the present, SEES would never have known why the MC died in the first place, so while she didn't get to save/revive the MC her will to live, make the most of her life, and look forward to the future was when she witnessed his sacrifice and finally got her answer as to why he died. In Persona 4 Arena, Yukari continues to make the most out of her life and is now playing the part of Isis' mythology where she is seen as a symbol of hope, sticking to acting in Featherman after seeing how much joy, happiness, and hope it gave to the children watching the show (and Futaba in P5 lol) honoring the initial promise she made to the MC to live her life and to help lessen the desire of humanity wishing for the Fall.
One thing I think that would been a good replacement for FemC for Thanatos is Persephone. While Persephone may be potyral at times as a flower girl to Detemer and wife to Hades. She actually consider to be pretty important and just as intimidating as Hades.That whole spring Kore stuff was added later to make her less intimidating. Also alot of times she take more up front role in the stories where the underworld is invloved. It also connect to Orpheus as she and hades were so amazed by Orpheus's music they did give him a chance to be with Eurydice. Not only that she has a ritual where she up with Detemer in the spring and summer and being with hades in the fall and winter. She in a way a goddess of both life and death.
Thanatos have a "counter part" not well-known. She's Makaria. There's two of her. One daughter of Heracle snd other Hades. Either way, they are both referred as "The Blessed Death". The human one is said that she fled to the Athens to escape king Eurytheus with her siblings. There she was confronted by two option: sacrifices herself to Persephone or die in the hand of Eurytheus. Of course, the former weighted more as it may secure victory and salvation of her siblings and as gratitude of for those who welcomed them, the Athens. The next part merges the two Makaria in modern day: it is said that the Underworld's Goddess Persephone then blessed Makaria for her bravery that she became Goddess of the Blessed Death and resides in Elysium. Fun fact: the myth is to tell the day of Macarian, a day during spring season. King Eurytheus (death that follows or could be the Strega), siblings and Athens (her comrades that delayed the end of humanity), Persephone (connection to the Underworld and death being with FemC). Makaria herself can also be like Messiah who sacrified himself for humanity. They are not dead. Rather, they became something divine who went to blessedness instead of misery and destruction.
That would have been amazing! Persephone would work so well. Not only cuz she’s more positive (spring) but also for the death aspect that most ppl don’t associate her with
You have become one of my favourite persona channels, honestly the amount of depht in your work is so admirable, also your channel is one of only ones that are unbiased and try to capture the true lore behind the games. I think that they made Strega cake walks because they are artificial persona users and were sick, so they don't have so much life left. Also is nice to see videos with true knowledge of tarot, because in the meaning of the arcana there a lot of information that is missed if you don't know anything of tarot.
It's not mythology-related, but an interesting detail you didn't mention is that Thanatos has exactly enough coffins for each human party member (including Fuuka and Shinjiro). Never forgot that after I had it pointed out.
Honestly I think P3 MC has one of my favorite personas/ references. I don’t think P4 and P5 had that much depth. Literally big parts of the story are told through the personas alone. But who would know that the first time around! Crazy how much thought they put into everything.
I agree. I am from Greece and was always interested in our mythology so I was pleasantly surprised to see how well they managed to represent it with the personas the characters got.
Party members' Personas in future titles were always thematically fitting for the story (P4 cast is mostly composed of Japanese mythological figures often related to Inazagi/Izanami, P5 are rebellious figures) and for characters themselves personality-wise, but definitely not at the same level as in P3. At the same time, it feels like a deliberate choice. You can now bond with the whole cast, not just the girls. Further development past their focused Dungeons is now presented via Social Links/Confidants, and this includes their Persona evolutions. This is fully optional tho and doesn't carry the same impact as, let's say, Chidori's sacrifice in a critical story moment. This opens up for more original, unpredictable twists in the main story for P4/P5, but hurts the personal development of some members who rarely get some proper screentime later, like Haru or Kanji. Teddie's development always felt more impactful to me than any optional SL since you witness it throughout the main game, for example.
A bit off topic: but I see the MC’s sacrifice to save the entire world as a final middle-finger to Strega, Takaya specifically. Both were dealt such cruel hands by the very world they live in, but Door-kun was fortunate enough to see the bright side. While Takaya wanted to desperately rip away the very concept of life to take away the suffering he endured, even putting his life on the line to make sure The Fall happens. And in the end, it was all for nothing, and everyone lived triumphantly.
4 and 5 had depth just not to the same degree, nor to the same tone that 3 was hitting. Each game had its own theme for where the story and character development was going. In P3, main story elements revolved around the meaning of life and characters processing the true concept of death and 'what it means to die' on an individual level. P4 was more in line with the Truth of the world and the acceptance or denial of said Truth and the Truth within oneself. P5 was mainly about rebellion within or against societal norms and the perception of what people see as Truth and what actually is: sometimes the line between Truth and what we think is parallel or are in sync and other times that line is an asymptotic one where our World views and opinions are similar or close to Truth but never touching/crossing or overlapping. In worse case scenarios, the lines between Truth and characters perceived Truth cross and clash like blades. Thus giving the distorted desires we see in game.
I've always felt that the mythology of P3's Personas felt more intwined with the story in P3 than in 4 and 5, where knowing the lore just felt like a "bonus". Junpei and Hermes were always favourites of mine. Still my fav Magician character. 2:38 Wtf are Mitsuru and Akihiko doing lol. Io is also weak to Zio, which has obvious mythological implications. I still love the end of The Answer, Yukari reconciling with Aigis and offering to be roommates. Underrated Persona ending imo. So the myth of Sisyphus is... interesting to me now, as he appears in Hades and clearly his many years in Tartarus mellowed him out, he's such a nice, friendly guy there who often helps early in runs. It's even possible to convince Hades to reduce his sentence once you progress enough! (There's still bad blood between him and Thanatos, for obvious reasons) Not just confirmed by the end credits, Messiah is his ultimate in Persona Q. And in Q2, FeMC gets him while male MC gets Orpheus Telos, a cool way to rep both "ultimates". Messiah learning Absorb Pierce is probably a reference to either the Lance of Longinus or the nails on the cross. As for the "dueling messiahs", I think some see Takaya as a reference to the idea of "the antichrist", although that being one specific person is apparently a misreading of the bible. Despite some of this being from older videos, I still enjoyed every moment of this. Hope this helps people. Also, glad my footage could be of use!
Yes! It's such a cool reflection of irl Greek tragedy since so much of it focused on mythological figures/tales (so like the mythological lore shapes the narrative and vice versa)~ Junpei's just da man! 😄 And that's so true about Io... rip. Same, which is why I had to do that entire video on the Answer haha Don't know if I'll ever get to playing the game myself, but Hades gameplay mechanics and how it pushes its lore has always sounded intriguing! Ahhh whoops, makes sense I didn't know though since I've never played the Q games. I think it's fair to see Takaya as an anti-Christ reference too. Overall the New Testament has plenty of reminders to be vigilant of false prophets and teachers, so there's many ways to view the kind of archetypal figure Takaya represents. Thanks always for watching and the thoughtful comment Klingy!! and yesss thanks for actually using Ken 🥲
@@LadyVirgilia The Q games are good if you like dungeon crawlers, and they have some interesting characters. A lot of the fanbase brushes them off because of the character exaggerations but it's not a huge deal to me.
@@LadyVirgilia I'd totally recommend the Q games. They're kinda TOO on the nose when it comes to flanderization (poor Akihiko...) but the gameplay is pretty fun, the character interactions are great and the stories are good. Personally i think PQ1 aged less gracefully than its sequel, some of its gameplay features aged like milk and the later dungeons rival Strange Journey's sector E in terms of how painful they are to go through, but imo the story is better in that game.
@@funninoriginal6054 I personally think Q1's dungeons are better designed than Q2's, mostly in the sense that shortcuts are logically placed to make floors easy to backtrack through for quests and the like, Q2's shortcut placement felt a lot more arbitrary. Q1 also feels more polished, with a dub (I don't blame a very late 3DS game for lacking one though), greater environmental variety within dungeons, more music, and so on. But Q2's battle system is a LOT better and so is the party balanced. (Magic sucks horribly in Q1 and physical attackers are OP, 2 is more even)
I’d say P4’s Persona choices are still linked in an interesting way, as Narukami’s Izanagi being the first to awaken and being the progenitor of everyone else’s personae either being born from the purification ritual Izanagi performed* (Yosuke/Susano-O Amaterasu/Yukiko Haraedo/Chie) born from him slaying the fire god kagutsuchi* (Take-Mikazuchi/Kanji) or are part of the Japanese Royal family( Himiko/Rise and Yamato-Takeru/Naoto) there are some exceptions like the ultimates namely Rokuten-Maoh/Takeru Zaiten/Kanji and Kanzeon/Kouzeon/Rise and All of Teddie’s Personae but it could be said that Teddie is an interpretation of one of Izanagi and Izanami’s grandchildren like the two Sagiri, I’d recommend watching Hiding in Privates Mythology and Ultimate Persona Videos for his big persona 4 video essay series for a more in depth discussion.
There is something very fitting about Akihiko's 2nd awakening as well. Polyduces begged Zues to give half his immortality to Castor so the brothers could be reunited and Zues gave them both eternal life among the stars. Aki's persona in turn becomes a mortal person, Caesar, whose legacy has given the figure eternal life as history's greatest emperor. Polyduces is also laid to rest at Shinji's funeral which I feel represents the two brothers acceding to the stars together.
It wouldn't surprise me if I'm looking too far into it, but the spherical design of Kala-Nemi as opposed to the circular design of Nemesis may also be another way of showing Ken's maturity. With Nemesis, Ken is shown as having a one-track mind. He's only focused on what's directly ahead of him, getting revenge and then dying not long after, the saw blade is slim when viewed head-on because Ken's world view is narrow-minded. With Kala-Nemi though, we can see how Ken has moved beyond that. He's more aware of the world around him, able to choose a path for himself that deviates from what he originally wanted. The gray bars encasing the top half of the persona could also represent the ability to look at both sides of a story, like how you mentioned the pieces holding the saw on Nemesis may be representative of both sides of a story. Kala-Nemi is a showcase of connecting the puzzle pieces, just as the gray bars are connected, of a story or conflict and deciding where to go with the full picture.
WAIT REDO?? i thought it was just a compilation. These vids have been very eye opening to me as of late as I was interested on how personas connect to they're users and this series was exactly what I was looking for
As a fan of persona and a Greek man myself. I feel honoured to have people across the world appreciate my culture and express it through their own creations. You have done an amazing video at explaining just how similar the Myths and The Game are, to that i say thank you and i wish you the best in your life. And on a personal note, if they in fact remake the entire game one day, i would want more Greek Personas and an overhaul on Tartarus itself because in the Myth, Tartarus has a LOT of sub sections within itself and it would make for an amazing dungeon to grind and slay shadows.
Woowee, finally finished this video hehe. Definitely worth its length in gold; I knew the Greek mythology ties ran deep yet they go even deeper than I expected. One thing I can always appreciate about your P3 analysis videos is that I always come away with a greater appreciation for P3 despite already being so attached for it (specifically in this video, you gave me a greater appreciation for Mitsuru, who was already a top 5 P3 character for me heh). Really loved this deep dive and how much more I learned about P3 and Greek mythology. Awesome work as always.
What excellent timing - I finished the PS4 port of Persona 3 a few weeks ago and have been wanting to check out some analyses on the game. Wonderful job as always.
One thing I've always liked about P3 is how it tells you straight out the gate that you're going to die by putting 'memento mori' in the opening. The most famous tragedies in history tell you straight out the gate that the main characters are going to die, but that just makes everything more powerful because you're wanting things to work out for the characters despite knowing it's fruitless.
Junpei and Yukari are my favorite characters, because they respond like how teenagers would act in this story. Almost everyone else, Ken included try to act too grown up for their age, and they are by far the most relatable.
In Ken’s case, he’s clearly matured because of what’s happened in his life. You never get to really enjoy a childhood when you lose your guardians at age 8. He’s probably more relatable to ppl who have lost their parents while young. And despite that, he still makes childish mistakes and there’s something to be said about the neuroplasticity in his brain that helped him rationalize things more. That said, I’m so glad to see some love for Yukari and Junpei. Whenever I see a P3 playthrough, the player either has a huge basis against Yukari or Junpei.
All the members of SEES have had death happen to them on a personal level. For Yukari, it happened far away, and for Junpei, it waits until late in the game, but for the rest (except Fuuka), it's their backstory and the defining event of their lives. It's a little weird that Mitsuru, who actually had a decent father, tries to carry the entire burden herself, but it's not that surprising with the rest of them. But I do agree that Junpei and Yukari are great. Junpei hits too many of the stereotypical teenage boy notes for him to be my favorite (I have the same problem with Ryuji and Yosuke), but he's a great person and even better character.
Great video I loved hearing about the connection between the Greek pantheon and Egyptian pantheon. When I first played p3 I was incredibly confused as to why there were Egyptian gods mixed in with the greek personas the majority of the cast had. Didn't know until recently just how interconnected the two cultures were. It's super interesting how the devs were able to integrate the two mythological groups together into one story and have them mix together so well like Medea and trismegistus.
I’ve been studying Greek Mythology for about 3 years now, and being able actually understand all of these personas and how they fit is such a nice thing to feel
The more I know of this game the more I love it, you can say all you want that it was the superificial features and aspects of the game that appealed to people but in my opinion its this insane attention to detail and the execution of the games themes that made it such a hit and allowed it to retain, if not grow its popularity throghout the years. Great video.
A few cool details that may or may not have been the inspiration of the Personas: - Trismegistus has an abstract bird head, this ties with Trismegistus being a syncretism of Hermes and Thoth, which is often portrayed as having an Ibis' head. Its name may be in itself a reference or a remnant to Junpei's earlier loud and self-centered attitude as Trismegistus literally means "Thrice-great". - Medea's ram head may be a direct reference to her assassination of the king. Her dagger and cup also call to mind the several assassinations she carried out for Jason or to spite him. It may also be worth mentioning that the fact Medea could go berserk and kill Shidori may be a reference to Medea's assassination of her own children to spite Jason for wanting to leave her for a young princess, just as Medea killed those she was meant to care for, Shidori's persona harms her when it should protect her. - Caesar suffers a similar transformation to Trismegistus in that in incorporates small touches of somebody else's persona, namely the black hues more often associated with Castor. Also theres the chance its called "Caesar" because its an amalgamation of both Julius Caesar and Caesar Augustus, because as it turns out they were opposites in many aspects: whereas Julius was a charismatic, strong leader who spearheaded many militar campaigns, Augustus was described as a cagey, more quiet man who didnt fight as often on account of his significatly poorer health; his strength laid in navigating politics and consolidating power through wit. This seemingly not only represents Akihiko's duality as both brains and brawn but Akihiko and Shinjiro's almost opposite lifepaths. Caesar's use of lightning fits neatly as well, many pre-christian Roman rulers had the habit if claming to be direct descendants of the gods, thus validating their rule as divinely ordained
there was some knowledge I had from just reading and knowing the overall plot, but the little details and links to each of them, both to their character and in stories, was fantastic. For some reason, I never looked all that closely at Caeser's middle section and that 'thinker' inside, just thought it was a neat nod to the real man. Same goes for the coloring of Junpei with the inclusion of red. Bravo, loved it all!
What an amazing video. As a fan of the persona series who often wondered what the characters had to do with their personas this was amazing. Especially helpful on the Orpheus/Thanatos front as not many other people got that one right. You earned a sub and I'll definitely be checking out your other videos.
Persona 3: Greek Mythology Persona 4: Japanese Mythology Persona 5: European Mythology I wonder what other mythological characters will appear as Personas as in the next game. If it’s Chinese, I’d love to see a Sun Wukong Persona
One concept about Penthesilea's dagger is it may be a parrying dagger, used toi block attacks while also being a weapon This would represent her being aggressively guarded
Good video overall but it was Mitsuru's dad that felt guilty about the death of Yukari's dad and the other researchers she knew of the accident, but only to an extent because she was just as surprised as everyone else in Yakushima. Penthesilea's dagger could also allude to the fact that Mitsuru would have been fine hiding the truth about the Kirijo Groups hand in creating the Dark Hour to the new members of SEES and the truth only came out after Yukari got tired of waiting for her to reveal it herself (which we know she wouldn't have) after three near-death experiences with the full moon shadow bosses combined with nightly dangerous trips to Tartarus.
I finally saw the video in full… SEES being similar to their Personas really showed the modern version of a Greek Tragedy. But you wanna know the best part I noticed: Mitsuru and Akihiko glitching as they walk away from the hotel in the Junpei and Chidori segment.
I feel like its a shame Dionysus or another version of him didnt get an oppurtunity to be the persona of a main character in this game. One of the reasons why the maenads tore apart Orpheus was to reenact one of the myths about Dionysus' birth. In that version he is initially born as the child of Zeus and Persephone and is destined to one day succeed Zeus as king of the gods. Hera attempts to prevent this by having the infant Dionysus torn to pieces. Athena manages to save his heart which is then (depending on the version) either implanted into a mortal woman's womb or sown into Zeus' thigh, where it is eventually reborn as Dionysus, who is initially raised as a girl in order to hide him from Hera I wonder how these connections to other mythical figures would have been represented in the connections to other characters if there had been someone with a Dionysus persona. Something fun to imagine.
Awesome job! This is the kind of stuff that drew me into Persona/SMT (I kind of went backwards). I've always been a mythology buff (especially Greek and Norse) and while I was familiar with all the myths laid out in this video, it was very well done. The only comment that I'd like to (and I apologize if it's already mentioned) that if you ever need to mention Isis, you can refer to her as Esset as well. It is an alternate name for the Egyptian goddess. I came across it when eSports announcers were having the same issues. I'll definitely be looking through you channel for more content! Thanks again!
So I finished Reload about two days back now, and... I'm still not over that ending. Been catching myself crying over it now and again, like all the games in the modern trilogy hits hard but... this is on a whole different level. It feels about the same as actual grief. So I gotta give it to Atlus, because they truly know how to hit hard with them feelings 😔 Sry if this felt irrelevant, I just had to open up somewhere where maybe someone could understand. Anyways ❤
@themanicfiddler1152 I hope Persona 6 can bring back some of Three's more realistic depth of life and death. It definitely hits the hardest, and I genuinely love the other games.
Wow this was really well made, I started watching this vid while eating dinner and continued it while lying down in my bed you did an excellent job diverging into the persona masterpiece
Idk about everyone else but for some reason I was reminded of the question as to whether labrys counts as a p3 or p4 character. Cuz like, she comes from the p4 fighting game, but the p4 game does have p3 characters and labrys' story is extremely involved with Aegis'. Either way, would love to see her get an analysis like this if one hasn't already been made
This video is amazing !! I once saw a deep dive on the shadows/personas of the p4 cast and then something similar with the P5 cast. I'm curious if you will do something like that for the other games
Mythology in a modern media explained by Virgil ? That's fitting 👍 I agree that prior knowledge about Orpheus in particular and mythology in general is a good way to spoil a good chunk of P3 plot and themes. I hope you do the same work with P4 and P5, ( if not for a video, at least for yourself). They're less rooted in mythology (if at all), but they all give insights about their respective protagonists/antagonists
As an Orthodox Christian, I started tearing up in the end of the story. From Chidori to Makoto, all the characters who die remind me of the holy words of the verse: "There is no greater love among men, than to lay his life down for his friends."
Great video, but I get distracted by characters walking off-screen and still being on-screen because of the wide-screen mod so they look so goofy on their walk cycles stuck (sometimes inside one another)
I didn't think much about the Greek mythology until this video. Of course Atlus games use characters from mythologies and spirits. But I'm surprised that P3 put this much effort into an accurate connection and have its own story that makes sense
I always found the p3 protagonists total lack of f's given in the beginning of the story when walking by literal floating coffins and under a green sky hilarious. Even in the remake he just shrugs it off and I had always wondered why
To expand on the gadfly torturing Io to near insanity while on her forced solitary journey, Yukari (and her mom) are forced out of multiple places because the news of the accident spread far and wide. Her mom, in an effort to forget her grief, starts hooking-up with random (scummy) men, leaving her own grieving daughter to fend for herself. Yukari clings to her dad's innocence as her driving force for years, realizes just how deep the death of her dad goes (Persona's, Shadows, and the Dark Hour) and then gets tricked by Ikutsuki into believing her dad was at fault for everything. She then continues to fight with SEES to now atone for her dad's mistakes. Her original driving force and her belief in him shattered. The amount of mental torture she has gone through throughout the story, and after the MC breaks down her walls and makes her push past her fear of making true connections because she's afraid of losing it/losing it unexpectedly, the MC dies with no proper answer (heh) as to why making her fear a reality.
I always thought the whole Door-kun part was a pushover from the devs to make the game artifically not end on a happy note, however watching this video made me realize the message they were attempting to convey. I still think its a bit counter-intuitive for the mc to find his ultimate place in the world as a sacrifice for everyone as it ties him down to his fated death. The game starts with the contract detailing responsibility for your actions, but ends with a limited choice of give up and/or die trying. It just feels off a bit. For this reason I don't like The Answer, but it certainly fits with the theme of accepting death. Overall I think the big dissonance is because the game is about the mc learning the importance of living and interacting with one another, pulling through struggles and creating a better tomorrow, however it ends on rather a nihilistic note of sacrificing one for the greater good.
I also found that the shadows u fight (the bosses pf your party) mainly is an actually thing. Mainly in the practice called show work where you face parts of yourself and try to learn to accept them
I always think "I wonder why Jesus wasn't a persona yet" Then I remember Messiah and the MC. Now I truly wonder what they would do for P6 and how insane the personas would be.
This is a bit unrelated, but as P3's Minato was my favorite persona main character, P3 made me hate multiple endings in games. In my first and only play through of persona 3, I got the "good ending" thinking it was the true ending and just stayed with that for several years lol. It wasn't until later in my life where I realized my favorite MC died. I really wanted him to be in P4 Arena, but I was informed why he wasn't...........Persona 5 has streamlined the multiple ending system, but I still kinda see it as a disservice to the player after playing the game for hundreds of hours.
@@GattlingCombo Didnt they hint at it though? The fact that the Great Seal used up all of the characters health and him being tired everyday was a good hint that the character would die. I mean eh its fine whatever
On topic to Hypnos' design with the sleep stuff, in his concept art and on his model even though you can barely see it in game, he's actually wearing a sleeping mask on his face
awesome video; i just finished Persona 3 Reload and i've been so interested in the Personas and the mythology. Would you ever do a video on Persona 4's personas? 4 has my favourite, design wise and stuff and the characters are my favourite too:) well it's ok if not haha, just wondering:D have a nice day
With messiah as well what look like wings around it’s waist being held by hands could be interpreted as them being lifted by angels and the coffins being that same from Thanatos but are dragging the hand down could be a reference to them being brought back from death. Or better yet to combine the two the wings are pulling them out of death to be a saviour. Just like the p3 protagonist did
Panthesilea using a dagger with a sword indicates it's likely a parrying dagger, used to deflect an opponent's blade to the side to create openings that could immediately be taken advantage of. The dagger is probably not a reference to underhanded behavior and more a reflection of Mitsuru being fairly deflective and redirecting in personality
Excellent stuff! I'd love to see your take on some of the other group's personas like how the pr gang's have elements of Japanese kids stuff like kamen rider and super sentai
To add on to the connections between Makoto and Messiah, we can interpret Makoto delaying his death until he fulfills his promise to S.E.E.S. as a parallel to Jesus choosing to spend his last moments with the Apostles after being resurrected before ascending to Heaven. Actually on that note, we also can interpret Aigis inheriting Makoto’s Wild Card ability as a parallel to Jesus choosing Peter as his successor following his ascension.
My favourite character here is Aigis. I could really feel for her and understand first hand what she describes. I have quite a soft spot for "robot -like" characters, as in "characters that don't understand how they feel and can't express that". I am autistic, and what Aigis goes through is something that I just can't help but to relate to what I've been through. Autistic people don't get that good representation in media, and the closest things you'll find to a good one tends to come in the form on "robot -like characters coming to terms to what they feel". It's not that we don't feel (hell, there's studies pointing out that we tend to feel waay harder than "normal" people), it's just we don't know how to express it, and people just tends not to teach others on to how to do so. (Just cause I'd like adding and if whomever is reading this is interested, I was also thinking a lot in Violet Evergarden as I wrote this. I'd say she's the best allegory to an autistic person I've seen this far).
went into p3r having only played p5 and p5r had no knowledge of the story. i was left just empty. feeling like the ending was sad just for edgy sad sake but i feel like the ending was understandable and was justified in its strong and powerful message in “the story isn’t about happy endings. the story is about life and how even when it ends it goes on.” i cried for about a good 20 minutes after the answer.
I disagree with the dagger being about stabbing for Mitsuru's persona. The Rapier and dagger was a popular combinaison for dueling. It was primarily used for defense. I think it just represents her "nobless" of character.
Izanagi no Picaro... That's my favourite persona. Ever since I was in third grade... I nicknamed my dad that... And it's been he's name in my contacts list... ever since then
It's kinda wild how much better everyone looks in P3Dancing than they do in the original. Those old portraits are just so unappealing now that Persona 4 and 5 have spoiled us.
I clicked on this because I had the idea that there was a lot of commections through the whole Jesus mythology. He has his disciples, he ends up betrayed by someone close by. They even work with ryuji and astrega at times kinda like how the Bible is created. He is the "messiah who sacrifices himself."
Just curious but, have you studied semiotics or something related to the field of signs?? Because honestly your analysis was quite good, I saw a thesis about the translation in Persona 5 characters and their references and your video reminded me a lot to it, in the way of how deep and precise it was, so I hot a bit curious about your academic backgrounds. Anyways, just by seeing some of your other videos I can definitely say that this is top notch Persona content, or even top RUclips content maybe for the quality of the analysis, congratulations.
Persona 3 is my favorite game in the series and my favorite character in the game is well... Me aka Makoto Yuki, When I saw the name of one particular persona I realized what it meant... Thanatos aka the Son of Nyx and Erebus is the Greco/Roman interpretation of The Grim Reaper. Thanatos and his ilk across all mythologies are usually my favorite. So makoto's and by extension Aigis' journey are the reasons why those two are among if not my favorites
Could there be a meaningful tie to Aigis with Orpheus mechanical body? After all, it's Aigis that sets Makoto on the path of the wild card to begin with. While she discovers her humanity through Makoto, Makoto himself rediscovers his humanity alongside her. Apart from physically being human, he's just as much of a husk as she is at the start of the game. After she becomes as human as she can she unlocks Orpheus as HER Persona. If you romance her (which is canon to the films) Makoto touches her heart burning his DNA and possibly memories into her in her final social link. Whether this affects her is unknown however I like to think she gains Orpheus at that point which is why he still looks like Makoto and doesn't take Aigis' looks (unlike femc) and she only accesses Orpheus when she's given the emotional push she needs. She could've awoken to ANY persona but she awoke specifically to Makoto's persona, the boy she loved more than anything.
There’s also this ancient Greek religion called Orphism, its teachings derived from literature penned by Orpheus… and as we know, Orpheus journeyed to the Underworld and back. Similarly, many denominations of Christianity believe Jesus Christ descended into hell after his death, but returned three days later as the resurrected Christ. (Messiah's tear also a reference to "Jesus wept"/his compassion in the Gospels- Luke 19:41, John 11:35).
The “final boss/form” of Nyx being an egg in P3 is inspired by Orphic teachings: this cosmic egg hatched the primordial entity Phanes that then birthed the other gods. I saved a lot of the Orphic Egg stuff for another video idea I’ll get to about Nyx lore in the context of the Hashino personas lol :o
On that note, I also have a part 2 video idea to this P3 and Greek tragedy inspirations I'll get to at some point lol!
Thanks for your patience while the power outages moved back edits a handful of days. I absolutely LOVED working on this project back then, and fastforwarding to now-- Persona 3 is my favorite and this is very much my love letter to its cast
Also here another thing that interesting about Orphism. One of the gods they worship is Dionysus, more specially Orphic Dionysus. Part of Dionysus's origin was when Hera heard about Dionysus . She send titans to shred him or told Selma(who was pregnant with Dionysus) to tell zeus to "god it up". in which Zeus accidently kill her. Ether way Zeus saved him by sewing him on his thigh. This means Dionysus was rebirth and also mythological representation of the process of wine making. Orphic Dionysus was mixed by Zagreus, who we don't know that munch but we know he was a chronic god.
sidenote this was humorsly referenced in the games hades where Zagreus and Dionysus play a prank that Zagreus and Dionysus are same person.
Do a background on my persona. It's a beautiful necked woman, porn star big breasts, big booty, cum endlessly flowing out her mouth, her private, her butt. She is always seen smiling very happy shouting "Argh", while holding a whip with a toy D at the end of her whip, she whips shadows with. "Alexis Lust Oka-me Girlish Renegade ."
Most persona usually turned into another version of that mytological character (such as Hermes and Trismegistus or Io and Hera) or into another different figure with similar stories that are considered “more succesful” for the lack of better term. For example, Orpheus went to the underworld only to save Eurydice, and he failed to do so. when Jesus died on the cross, his soul also went to the gate of hell to open it and He succesfully released all the soul there to Heaven, a process called “The Harrowing”. I think it really mirror Makoto transformation of someone who are full of “Apathy” not carimg about others or dying, to someone who apprecite life and others and sacrifice himself to save not just his friend but humanity as a whole. Io ran away from Greek after having affair with Zeus and Hera sent gnats tonattack her. She reach Egypt and become the Goddess Isis. Lucia and Juno both associate with eye. Lucia lost her eyes but she still able to see due to miracle. Juno associate with peacock, the pattern of peacock feather believed by some to be a literal eyes (or evil eyes). Also Sanada Red Vest might be inspired by Sanada Yukimura, a Japanese samurai known for its Red armor.
One detail about Orpheus worth mentioning: supposedly, after being torn to pieces by the Maenads, his severed head drifted down a river atop his own lyre, still singing. I think this explains why his head is the only part of the body to srill be organic, where all other parts are artificial.
Now that's horrifying, but I guess I can see why he was Minato's First Persona.
Essentially, the trauma from his youth tore him apart at the psyche, and the only real bit that remained was his mind and sentience. That being said, like Orpheus, the only real option was to rebuild him artificially with only the head remaining since its the only part that is relatively intact.
@@TheNapster153 I'd not even considered that approach, but it makes sense when you put it like that.
Is that why his head is the first to go when Thanatos rips him apart from the inside?
@@goergebobicles1351that is a really really interesting thought. Chances are it wasn’t done on purpose but I’m gonna choose to go along with what you said simply because its a really cool attention to detail if true
There's a comment in the artbook (at least the English one from Udon) that says exactly that. It was a purposeful part of the design.
they really put everything they had into this game. people don't appreciate that this type of thought and artistry is why the series got famous in the first place. this is John Denver hoping you're having a great day
Wow, thanks John Denver!
Whoa John Denver was resurrected *and* stans Persona 3?!? 😂
Legit though, I thank you for providing the very nice car trip tunes of my adolescence ala my dad's stash. The flowers are most definitely my sisters and my brothers 🌻
But, but but *Unoriginal Tartarus complaint regurgitated*
Yea P3 is a masterpiece.
P3 has the strongest aesthetic of the modern Persona. So much of the themes were woven into every aspect of the game, they really went beyond whole hog. It was beautiful.
Thanatos: _Is the personification of non-violent deaths_
Also Thanatos on April 9th: *COWABUNGA IT IS*
In the movie that scene was quite different
There's also the fact that Hermes was considered a guide to lost souls on the way to the underworld. In the game, you don't get to go to Tartarus (named after a section of the underworld) at all until Junpei joins the team.
1:27:15
Also note how Thanatos has an artifical head but natural body to Opheaus' natural head artifical body. Messiah is the combination of the MC and Ryoji. Life and Death together to create the savior who died and was born again, further symbolized by him seeming to ascend upwards as he leaves Thanatos' coffins behind to slip away.
Penthesilea's Dagger is most likely just a parrying dagger. In the late middle ages, wielding a dagger in your left hand was common for defense in duels.
This was my first thought when she mentioned the dagger
Mokoto really had not even a hint of hesitation in giving his life. That fact makes this game way deeper than just a game of high schoolers. The fact that he smiled as he died shows that he felt peaceful and fulfilled in his choice.
I kinda wanna add something she mentioned in Koromaru’s segment: It is said that when Orpheus lost his love, he would play mournful tunes on his lyre. The protagonist does the same thing: when his parents died, he would wear his headphones and listen to music, desperately wanting to escape this reality deep down. It really goes to show how much he has grown to love the very world that was cruel to him.
Although in the story a few Gods encouraged Orpheus to venture out to bring his love back, I’m not sure what possessed the protagonist to go to Tatsumi Port Island.
@@b1tchb4by3 shows how deep this game is.
The aspect of nyx that was sealed inside. Ryoji explains that he’d led makoto to finding the missing pieces of his being without meaning to@@b1tchb4by3
Dude, he's a fictional character with no real agency.
@@gracenote108 you mean video games aren't real? No way!
I think the red gem in the beak of Trismegistus is also meant to represent the Philisopher's Stone, which was thought to grant immortality and really goes with the Spring of Life skill.
With Isas (Isis), I'd argue Yukari's desire to save the MC wasn't fruitless because if she just continued to ignore her grief/true feelings and immediately went back to the present, SEES would never have known why the MC died in the first place, so while she didn't get to save/revive the MC her will to live, make the most of her life, and look forward to the future was when she witnessed his sacrifice and finally got her answer as to why he died.
In Persona 4 Arena, Yukari continues to make the most out of her life and is now playing the part of Isis' mythology where she is seen as a symbol of hope, sticking to acting in Featherman after seeing how much joy, happiness, and hope it gave to the children watching the show (and Futaba in P5 lol) honoring the initial promise she made to the MC to live her life and to help lessen the desire of humanity wishing for the Fall.
Isis? don't you mean Ice ass?
One thing I think that would been a good replacement for FemC for Thanatos is Persephone. While Persephone may be potyral at times as a flower girl to Detemer and wife to Hades. She actually consider to be pretty important and just as intimidating as Hades.That whole spring Kore stuff was added later to make her less intimidating. Also alot of times she take more up front role in the stories where the underworld is invloved. It also connect to Orpheus as she and hades were so amazed by Orpheus's music they did give him a chance to be with Eurydice. Not only that she has a ritual where she up with Detemer in the spring and summer and being with hades in the fall and winter. She in a way a goddess of both life and death.
Thanatos have a "counter part" not well-known. She's Makaria. There's two of her. One daughter of Heracle snd other Hades. Either way, they are both referred as "The Blessed Death".
The human one is said that she fled to the Athens to escape king Eurytheus with her siblings. There she was confronted by two option: sacrifices herself to Persephone or die in the hand of Eurytheus. Of course, the former weighted more as it may secure victory and salvation of her siblings and as gratitude of for those who welcomed them, the Athens.
The next part merges the two Makaria in modern day: it is said that the Underworld's Goddess Persephone then blessed Makaria for her bravery that she became Goddess of the Blessed Death and resides in Elysium. Fun fact: the myth is to tell the day of Macarian, a day during spring season.
King Eurytheus (death that follows or could be the Strega), siblings and Athens (her comrades that delayed the end of humanity), Persephone (connection to the Underworld and death being with FemC). Makaria herself can also be like Messiah who sacrified himself for humanity. They are not dead. Rather, they became something divine who went to blessedness instead of misery and destruction.
That would have been amazing! Persephone would work so well. Not only cuz she’s more positive (spring) but also for the death aspect that most ppl don’t associate her with
she dont need a replacement, she aint cannon, she just a fanfic character
@@goticogordo She is actually canon. She is just from a different timeline.
Her name can mean destroyer of light
You have become one of my favourite persona channels, honestly the amount of depht in your work is so admirable, also your channel is one of only ones that are unbiased and try to capture the true lore behind the games. I think that they made Strega cake walks because they are artificial persona users and were sick, so they don't have so much life left. Also is nice to see videos with true knowledge of tarot, because in the meaning of the arcana there a lot of information that is missed if you don't know anything of tarot.
Thank you! 😭🙏 I'll continue to do my best!
It's not mythology-related, but an interesting detail you didn't mention is that Thanatos has exactly enough coffins for each human party member (including Fuuka and Shinjiro). Never forgot that after I had it pointed out.
Honestly I think P3 MC has one of my favorite personas/ references. I don’t think P4 and P5 had that much depth. Literally big parts of the story are told through the personas alone. But who would know that the first time around! Crazy how much thought they put into everything.
Overrated
I agree. I am from Greece and was always interested in our mythology so I was pleasantly surprised to see how well they managed to represent it with the personas the characters got.
Party members' Personas in future titles were always thematically fitting for the story (P4 cast is mostly composed of Japanese mythological figures often related to Inazagi/Izanami, P5 are rebellious figures) and for characters themselves personality-wise, but definitely not at the same level as in P3. At the same time, it feels like a deliberate choice.
You can now bond with the whole cast, not just the girls. Further development past their focused Dungeons is now presented via Social Links/Confidants, and this includes their Persona evolutions. This is fully optional tho and doesn't carry the same impact as, let's say, Chidori's sacrifice in a critical story moment.
This opens up for more original, unpredictable twists in the main story for P4/P5, but hurts the personal development of some members who rarely get some proper screentime later, like Haru or Kanji. Teddie's development always felt more impactful to me than any optional SL since you witness it throughout the main game, for example.
A bit off topic: but I see the MC’s sacrifice to save the entire world as a final middle-finger to Strega, Takaya specifically. Both were dealt such cruel hands by the very world they live in, but Door-kun was fortunate enough to see the bright side. While Takaya wanted to desperately rip away the very concept of life to take away the suffering he endured, even putting his life on the line to make sure The Fall happens. And in the end, it was all for nothing, and everyone lived triumphantly.
4 and 5 had depth just not to the same degree, nor to the same tone that 3 was hitting. Each game had its own theme for where the story and character development was going.
In P3, main story elements revolved around the meaning of life and characters processing the true concept of death and 'what it means to die' on an individual level.
P4 was more in line with the Truth of the world and the acceptance or denial of said Truth and the Truth within oneself.
P5 was mainly about rebellion within or against societal norms and the perception of what people see as Truth and what actually is: sometimes the line between Truth and what we think is parallel or are in sync and other times that line is an asymptotic one where our World views and opinions are similar or close to Truth but never touching/crossing or overlapping. In worse case scenarios, the lines between Truth and characters perceived Truth cross and clash like blades. Thus giving the distorted desires we see in game.
I've always felt that the mythology of P3's Personas felt more intwined with the story in P3 than in 4 and 5, where knowing the lore just felt like a "bonus".
Junpei and Hermes were always favourites of mine. Still my fav Magician character.
2:38 Wtf are Mitsuru and Akihiko doing lol.
Io is also weak to Zio, which has obvious mythological implications.
I still love the end of The Answer, Yukari reconciling with Aigis and offering to be roommates. Underrated Persona ending imo.
So the myth of Sisyphus is... interesting to me now, as he appears in Hades and clearly his many years in Tartarus mellowed him out, he's such a nice, friendly guy there who often helps early in runs. It's even possible to convince Hades to reduce his sentence once you progress enough! (There's still bad blood between him and Thanatos, for obvious reasons)
Not just confirmed by the end credits, Messiah is his ultimate in Persona Q. And in Q2, FeMC gets him while male MC gets Orpheus Telos, a cool way to rep both "ultimates".
Messiah learning Absorb Pierce is probably a reference to either the Lance of Longinus or the nails on the cross.
As for the "dueling messiahs", I think some see Takaya as a reference to the idea of "the antichrist", although that being one specific person is apparently a misreading of the bible.
Despite some of this being from older videos, I still enjoyed every moment of this. Hope this helps people. Also, glad my footage could be of use!
Yes! It's such a cool reflection of irl Greek tragedy since so much of it focused on mythological figures/tales (so like the mythological lore shapes the narrative and vice versa)~
Junpei's just da man! 😄
And that's so true about Io... rip.
Same, which is why I had to do that entire video on the Answer haha
Don't know if I'll ever get to playing the game myself, but Hades gameplay mechanics and how it pushes its lore has always sounded intriguing!
Ahhh whoops, makes sense I didn't know though since I've never played the Q games.
I think it's fair to see Takaya as an anti-Christ reference too. Overall the New Testament has plenty of reminders to be vigilant of false prophets and teachers, so there's many ways to view the kind of archetypal figure Takaya represents.
Thanks always for watching and the thoughtful comment Klingy!! and yesss thanks for actually using Ken 🥲
@@LadyVirgilia The Q games are good if you like dungeon crawlers, and they have some interesting characters. A lot of the fanbase brushes them off because of the character exaggerations but it's not a huge deal to me.
@@LadyVirgilia
I'd totally recommend the Q games. They're kinda TOO on the nose when it comes to flanderization (poor Akihiko...) but the gameplay is pretty fun, the character interactions are great and the stories are good.
Personally i think PQ1 aged less gracefully than its sequel, some of its gameplay features aged like milk and the later dungeons rival Strange Journey's sector E in terms of how painful they are to go through, but imo the story is better in that game.
@@funninoriginal6054 I personally think Q1's dungeons are better designed than Q2's, mostly in the sense that shortcuts are logically placed to make floors easy to backtrack through for quests and the like, Q2's shortcut placement felt a lot more arbitrary. Q1 also feels more polished, with a dub (I don't blame a very late 3DS game for lacking one though), greater environmental variety within dungeons, more music, and so on. But Q2's battle system is a LOT better and so is the party balanced. (Magic sucks horribly in Q1 and physical attackers are OP, 2 is more even)
I’d say P4’s Persona choices are still linked in an interesting way, as Narukami’s Izanagi being the first to awaken and being the progenitor of everyone else’s personae either being born from the purification ritual Izanagi performed* (Yosuke/Susano-O Amaterasu/Yukiko Haraedo/Chie) born from him slaying the fire god kagutsuchi* (Take-Mikazuchi/Kanji) or are part of the Japanese Royal family( Himiko/Rise and Yamato-Takeru/Naoto) there are some exceptions like the ultimates namely Rokuten-Maoh/Takeru Zaiten/Kanji and Kanzeon/Kouzeon/Rise and All of Teddie’s Personae but it could be said that Teddie is an interpretation of one of Izanagi and Izanami’s grandchildren like the two Sagiri, I’d recommend watching Hiding in Privates Mythology and Ultimate Persona Videos for his big persona 4 video essay series for a more in depth discussion.
There is something very fitting about Akihiko's 2nd awakening as well. Polyduces begged Zues to give half his immortality to Castor so the brothers could be reunited and Zues gave them both eternal life among the stars. Aki's persona in turn becomes a mortal person, Caesar, whose legacy has given the figure eternal life as history's greatest emperor. Polyduces is also laid to rest at Shinji's funeral which I feel represents the two brothers acceding to the stars together.
It wouldn't surprise me if I'm looking too far into it, but the spherical design of Kala-Nemi as opposed to the circular design of Nemesis may also be another way of showing Ken's maturity.
With Nemesis, Ken is shown as having a one-track mind. He's only focused on what's directly ahead of him, getting revenge and then dying not long after, the saw blade is slim when viewed head-on because Ken's world view is narrow-minded.
With Kala-Nemi though, we can see how Ken has moved beyond that. He's more aware of the world around him, able to choose a path for himself that deviates from what he originally wanted. The gray bars encasing the top half of the persona could also represent the ability to look at both sides of a story, like how you mentioned the pieces holding the saw on Nemesis may be representative of both sides of a story. Kala-Nemi is a showcase of connecting the puzzle pieces, just as the gray bars are connected, of a story or conflict and deciding where to go with the full picture.
WAIT REDO??
i thought it was just a compilation.
These vids have been very eye opening to me as of late as I was interested on how personas connect to they're users and this series was exactly what I was looking for
As a fan of persona and a Greek man myself. I feel honoured to have people across the world appreciate my culture and express it through their own creations. You have done an amazing video at explaining just how similar the Myths and The Game are, to that i say thank you and i wish you the best in your life. And on a personal note, if they in fact remake the entire game one day, i would want more Greek Personas and an overhaul on Tartarus itself because in the Myth, Tartarus has a LOT of sub sections within itself and it would make for an amazing dungeon to grind and slay shadows.
Woowee, finally finished this video hehe. Definitely worth its length in gold; I knew the Greek mythology ties ran deep yet they go even deeper than I expected. One thing I can always appreciate about your P3 analysis videos is that I always come away with a greater appreciation for P3 despite already being so attached for it (specifically in this video, you gave me a greater appreciation for Mitsuru, who was already a top 5 P3 character for me heh). Really loved this deep dive and how much more I learned about P3 and Greek mythology. Awesome work as always.
What excellent timing - I finished the PS4 port of Persona 3 a few weeks ago and have been wanting to check out some analyses on the game. Wonderful job as always.
One thing I've always liked about P3 is how it tells you straight out the gate that you're going to die by putting 'memento mori' in the opening. The most famous tragedies in history tell you straight out the gate that the main characters are going to die, but that just makes everything more powerful because you're wanting things to work out for the characters despite knowing it's fruitless.
Junpei and Yukari are my favorite characters, because they respond like how teenagers would act in this story. Almost everyone else, Ken included try to act too grown up for their age, and they are by far the most relatable.
In Ken’s case, he’s clearly matured because of what’s happened in his life. You never get to really enjoy a childhood when you lose your guardians at age 8. He’s probably more relatable to ppl who have lost their parents while young. And despite that, he still makes childish mistakes and there’s something to be said about the neuroplasticity in his brain that helped him rationalize things more.
That said, I’m so glad to see some love for Yukari and Junpei. Whenever I see a P3 playthrough, the player either has a huge basis against Yukari or Junpei.
All the members of SEES have had death happen to them on a personal level. For Yukari, it happened far away, and for Junpei, it waits until late in the game, but for the rest (except Fuuka), it's their backstory and the defining event of their lives. It's a little weird that Mitsuru, who actually had a decent father, tries to carry the entire burden herself, but it's not that surprising with the rest of them.
But I do agree that Junpei and Yukari are great. Junpei hits too many of the stereotypical teenage boy notes for him to be my favorite (I have the same problem with Ryuji and Yosuke), but he's a great person and even better character.
There's a very good reason for how Ken behaves. He has had to grow up soon.
They had a good reason to mature quick though.
Nah.
She's on to something with that Marin Karin helmet thing...
I'm actually SHOCKED😨
Great video I loved hearing about the connection between the Greek pantheon and Egyptian pantheon. When I first played p3 I was incredibly confused as to why there were Egyptian gods mixed in with the greek personas the majority of the cast had. Didn't know until recently just how interconnected the two cultures were. It's super interesting how the devs were able to integrate the two mythological groups together into one story and have them mix together so well like Medea and trismegistus.
I’ve been studying Greek Mythology for about 3 years now, and being able actually understand all of these personas and how they fit is such a nice thing to feel
The more I know of this game the more I love it, you can say all you want that it was the superificial features and aspects of the game that appealed to people but in my opinion its this insane attention to detail and the execution of the games themes that made it such a hit and allowed it to retain, if not grow its popularity throghout the years.
Great video.
A few cool details that may or may not have been the inspiration of the Personas:
- Trismegistus has an abstract bird head, this ties with Trismegistus being a syncretism of Hermes and Thoth, which is often portrayed as having an Ibis' head. Its name may be in itself a reference or a remnant to Junpei's earlier loud and self-centered attitude as Trismegistus literally means "Thrice-great".
- Medea's ram head may be a direct reference to her assassination of the king. Her dagger and cup also call to mind the several assassinations she carried out for Jason or to spite him. It may also be worth mentioning that the fact Medea could go berserk and kill Shidori may be a reference to Medea's assassination of her own children to spite Jason for wanting to leave her for a young princess, just as Medea killed those she was meant to care for, Shidori's persona harms her when it should protect her.
- Caesar suffers a similar transformation to Trismegistus in that in incorporates small touches of somebody else's persona, namely the black hues more often associated with Castor. Also theres the chance its called "Caesar" because its an amalgamation of both Julius Caesar and Caesar Augustus, because as it turns out they were opposites in many aspects: whereas Julius was a charismatic, strong leader who spearheaded many militar campaigns, Augustus was described as a cagey, more quiet man who didnt fight as often on account of his significatly poorer health; his strength laid in navigating politics and consolidating power through wit. This seemingly not only represents Akihiko's duality as both brains and brawn but Akihiko and Shinjiro's almost opposite lifepaths. Caesar's use of lightning fits neatly as well, many pre-christian Roman rulers had the habit if claming to be direct descendants of the gods, thus validating their rule as divinely ordained
I just noticed the other day that Makoto and Aigis on the roof is Christ and Mary in the pieta. The wind turbines in the background symbolize crosses.
I enjoyed so much your video. I finished P3P a week ago and find out this mitologic's references and details makes me love even more this game.
I have to give props for being like the only video on all of YT to talk about Messiah in analytic format instead of a gameplay one.
there was some knowledge I had from just reading and knowing the overall plot, but the little details and links to each of them, both to their character and in stories, was fantastic. For some reason, I never looked all that closely at Caeser's middle section and that 'thinker' inside, just thought it was a neat nod to the real man. Same goes for the coloring of Junpei with the inclusion of red. Bravo, loved it all!
What an amazing video. As a fan of the persona series who often wondered what the characters had to do with their personas this was amazing. Especially helpful on the Orpheus/Thanatos front as not many other people got that one right. You earned a sub and I'll definitely be checking out your other videos.
Caesar is just to cool, one of my favorite persona designs and it works will with Akihiko’s character.
Persona 3: Greek Mythology
Persona 4: Japanese Mythology
Persona 5: European Mythology
I wonder what other mythological characters will appear as Personas as in the next game. If it’s Chinese, I’d love to see a Sun Wukong Persona
This was great! Appreciate all the digging you did for one of my favorite games of all time.
One concept about Penthesilea's dagger is it may be a parrying dagger, used toi block attacks while also being a weapon
This would represent her being aggressively guarded
Love these longer formatted videos!
Good video overall but it was Mitsuru's dad that felt guilty about the death of Yukari's dad and the other researchers she knew of the accident, but only to an extent because she was just as surprised as everyone else in Yakushima. Penthesilea's dagger could also allude to the fact that Mitsuru would have been fine hiding the truth about the Kirijo Groups hand in creating the Dark Hour to the new members of SEES and the truth only came out after Yukari got tired of waiting for her to reveal it herself (which we know she wouldn't have) after three near-death experiences with the full moon shadow bosses combined with nightly dangerous trips to Tartarus.
I finally saw the video in full… SEES being similar to their Personas really showed the modern version of a Greek Tragedy. But you wanna know the best part I noticed:
Mitsuru and Akihiko glitching as they walk away from the hotel in the Junpei and Chidori segment.
I feel like its a shame Dionysus or another version of him didnt get an oppurtunity to be the persona of a main character in this game.
One of the reasons why the maenads tore apart Orpheus was to reenact one of the myths about Dionysus' birth.
In that version he is initially born as the child of Zeus and Persephone and is destined to one day succeed Zeus as king of the gods. Hera attempts to prevent this by having the infant Dionysus torn to pieces. Athena manages to save his heart which is then (depending on the version) either implanted into a mortal woman's womb or sown into Zeus' thigh, where it is eventually reborn as Dionysus, who is initially raised as a girl in order to hide him from Hera
I wonder how these connections to other mythical figures would have been represented in the connections to other characters if there had been someone with a Dionysus persona. Something fun to imagine.
Bro, what a sick channel. Sometimes RUclips really bring up the good stuff in your recommendation
Awesome job! This is the kind of stuff that drew me into Persona/SMT (I kind of went backwards). I've always been a mythology buff (especially Greek and Norse) and while I was familiar with all the myths laid out in this video, it was very well done. The only comment that I'd like to (and I apologize if it's already mentioned) that if you ever need to mention Isis, you can refer to her as Esset as well. It is an alternate name for the Egyptian goddess. I came across it when eSports announcers were having the same issues. I'll definitely be looking through you channel for more content! Thanks again!
Everything in the Shin Mehami Tensai frandhise is mythology inspired (not just Persona). If you love mythology definitly track down every game.
So I finished Reload about two days back now, and... I'm still not over that ending. Been catching myself crying over it now and again, like all the games in the modern trilogy hits hard but... this is on a whole different level. It feels about the same as actual grief.
So I gotta give it to Atlus, because they truly know how to hit hard with them feelings 😔
Sry if this felt irrelevant, I just had to open up somewhere where maybe someone could understand. Anyways ❤
@themanicfiddler1152 I hope Persona 6 can bring back some of Three's more realistic depth of life and death. It definitely hits the hardest, and I genuinely love the other games.
Wow this was really well made, I started watching this vid while eating dinner and continued it while lying down in my bed you did an excellent job diverging into the persona masterpiece
This really helped me appreciate the sheer genius of p3 thanks for the upload 🙏
We are blessed with another great video today uwu
I've been waiting for this. - Aki Senpai
Idk about everyone else but for some reason I was reminded of the question as to whether labrys counts as a p3 or p4 character. Cuz like, she comes from the p4 fighting game, but the p4 game does have p3 characters and labrys' story is extremely involved with Aegis'. Either way, would love to see her get an analysis like this if one hasn't already been made
This video is amazing !! I once saw a deep dive on the shadows/personas of the p4 cast and then something similar with the P5 cast. I'm curious if you will do something like that for the other games
To add to your Aegis analysis, Athena was born from Zeus’ head, same as Aegis, an AI, was born from an idea.
Mythology in a modern media explained by Virgil ? That's fitting 👍
I agree that prior knowledge about Orpheus in particular and mythology in general is a good way to spoil a good chunk of P3 plot and themes.
I hope you do the same work with P4 and P5, ( if not for a video, at least for yourself). They're less rooted in mythology (if at all), but they all give insights about their respective protagonists/antagonists
Glad this popped out in my feed, I gotta check out those trails videos
As an Orthodox Christian, I started tearing up in the end of the story. From Chidori to Makoto, all the characters who die remind me of the holy words of the verse:
"There is no greater love among men, than to lay his life down for his friends."
21:50
Its a partying dagger that Mitsuru wields, which pairs nicely with her sword, which is her rapier.
Great video, but I get distracted by characters walking off-screen and still being on-screen because of the wide-screen mod so they look so goofy on their walk cycles stuck (sometimes inside one another)
I didn't think much about the Greek mythology until this video. Of course Atlus games use characters from mythologies and spirits. But I'm surprised that P3 put this much effort into an accurate connection and have its own story that makes sense
I always found the p3 protagonists total lack of f's given in the beginning of the story when walking by literal floating coffins and under a green sky hilarious. Even in the remake he just shrugs it off and I had always wondered why
The movie tries to explain it by saying he has been experiencing the dark hour since childhood which would make sense considering ryojis presence.
This is great I enjoyed this so much
i feel like there’s also some obvious connection to hercules with the idea of the 12 labors being that every month is new shadow or labor
Small correction, but at 3:38 you say that Re Patra helps an _opponent_ who's been downed instead of ally, which is kinda funny lol
Rapier and dagger in combination is an actual fighting style. It and Rapier and Rapier are the only main dual wielding styles known
This was a great video!
Im glad somebody was thinking along the same wavelength.
1:28:04 I’ve always called Takaya Crackhead Jesus but I can understand Revolver Jesus
To expand on the gadfly torturing Io to near insanity while on her forced solitary journey, Yukari (and her mom) are forced out of multiple places because the news of the accident spread far and wide. Her mom, in an effort to forget her grief, starts hooking-up with random (scummy) men, leaving her own grieving daughter to fend for herself. Yukari clings to her dad's innocence as her driving force for years, realizes just how deep the death of her dad goes (Persona's, Shadows, and the Dark Hour) and then gets tricked by Ikutsuki into believing her dad was at fault for everything.
She then continues to fight with SEES to now atone for her dad's mistakes. Her original driving force and her belief in him shattered. The amount of mental torture she has gone through throughout the story, and after the MC breaks down her walls and makes her push past her fear of making true connections because she's afraid of losing it/losing it unexpectedly, the MC dies with no proper answer (heh) as to why making her fear a reality.
I always thought the whole Door-kun part was a pushover from the devs to make the game artifically not end on a happy note, however watching this video made me realize the message they were attempting to convey. I still think its a bit counter-intuitive for the mc to find his ultimate place in the world as a sacrifice for everyone as it ties him down to his fated death. The game starts with the contract detailing responsibility for your actions, but ends with a limited choice of give up and/or die trying. It just feels off a bit. For this reason I don't like The Answer, but it certainly fits with the theme of accepting death. Overall I think the big dissonance is because the game is about the mc learning the importance of living and interacting with one another, pulling through struggles and creating a better tomorrow, however it ends on rather a nihilistic note of sacrificing one for the greater good.
"Were smashing lighs in kareokie bars and your running late with out your makeup on i hate this feeling but i love this part"
I also found that the shadows u fight (the bosses pf your party) mainly is an actually thing. Mainly in the practice called show work where you face parts of yourself and try to learn to accept them
I always think "I wonder why Jesus wasn't a persona yet"
Then I remember Messiah and the MC.
Now I truly wonder what they would do for P6 and how insane the personas would be.
This is a bit unrelated, but as P3's Minato was my favorite persona main character, P3 made me hate multiple endings in games. In my first and only play through of persona 3, I got the "good ending" thinking it was the true ending and just stayed with that for several years lol. It wasn't until later in my life where I realized my favorite MC died. I really wanted him to be in P4 Arena, but I was informed why he wasn't...........Persona 5 has streamlined the multiple ending system, but I still kinda see it as a disservice to the player after playing the game for hundreds of hours.
No matter what ending you chose in P3 the MC would've died. You gotta read properly my man
@@ablone ruclips.net/video/poFycS1bmg8/видео.html it didnt scream "minato died" to me in 2008. It was pretty confusing but oh fucking k.
@@GattlingCombo Didnt they hint at it though? The fact that the Great Seal used up all of the characters health and him being tired everyday was a good hint that the character would die. I mean eh its fine whatever
On topic to Hypnos' design with the sleep stuff, in his concept art and on his model even though you can barely see it in game, he's actually wearing a sleeping mask on his face
Will be coming back to this video once i finish Persona 3
awesome video; i just finished Persona 3 Reload and i've been so interested in the Personas and the mythology.
Would you ever do a video on Persona 4's personas? 4 has my favourite, design wise and stuff and the characters are my favourite too:) well it's ok if not haha, just wondering:D have a nice day
With messiah as well what look like wings around it’s waist being held by hands could be interpreted as them being lifted by angels and the coffins being that same from Thanatos but are dragging the hand down could be a reference to them being brought back from death. Or better yet to combine the two the wings are pulling them out of death to be a saviour. Just like the p3 protagonist did
Keep the good work
Panthesilea using a dagger with a sword indicates it's likely a parrying dagger, used to deflect an opponent's blade to the side to create openings that could immediately be taken advantage of. The dagger is probably not a reference to underhanded behavior and more a reflection of Mitsuru being fairly deflective and redirecting in personality
Excellent stuff!
I'd love to see your take on some of the other group's personas like how the pr gang's have elements of Japanese kids stuff like kamen rider and super sentai
mitsuru and akihiko at 2:47 💀
persona 3 is easily the best persona game, best story, best characters, best soundtrack
To add on to the connections between Makoto and Messiah, we can interpret Makoto delaying his death until he fulfills his promise to S.E.E.S. as a parallel to Jesus choosing to spend his last moments with the Apostles after being resurrected before ascending to Heaven.
Actually on that note, we also can interpret Aigis inheriting Makoto’s Wild Card ability as a parallel to Jesus choosing Peter as his successor following his ascension.
My favourite character here is Aigis. I could really feel for her and understand first hand what she describes. I have quite a soft spot for "robot -like" characters, as in "characters that don't understand how they feel and can't express that". I am autistic, and what Aigis goes through is something that I just can't help but to relate to what I've been through. Autistic people don't get that good representation in media, and the closest things you'll find to a good one tends to come in the form on "robot -like characters coming to terms to what they feel".
It's not that we don't feel (hell, there's studies pointing out that we tend to feel waay harder than "normal" people), it's just we don't know how to express it, and people just tends not to teach others on to how to do so.
(Just cause I'd like adding and if whomever is reading this is interested, I was also thinking a lot in Violet Evergarden as I wrote this. I'd say she's the best allegory to an autistic person I've seen this far).
went into p3r having only played p5 and p5r had no knowledge of the story. i was left just empty. feeling like the ending was sad just for edgy sad sake but i feel like the ending was understandable and was justified in its strong and powerful message in “the story isn’t about happy endings. the story is about life and how even when it ends it goes on.” i cried for about a good 20 minutes after the answer.
my boy koromaru is my favourite and it will never change he is best boy
I disagree with the dagger being about stabbing for Mitsuru's persona. The Rapier and dagger was a popular combinaison for dueling. It was primarily used for defense. I think it just represents her "nobless" of character.
Izanagi no Picaro...
That's my favourite persona. Ever since I was in third grade... I nicknamed my dad that... And it's been he's name in my contacts list... ever since then
One would think it's Greek mythology theme would be on the nose but some people REALLY don't see it it's insane
About Chidori's Persona, Medea...
...she's a Rule Breaker, that woman.
Messiah has the best persona design and theme. 10/10
It's kinda wild how much better everyone looks in P3Dancing than they do in the original. Those old portraits are just so unappealing now that Persona 4 and 5 have spoiled us.
I clicked on this because I had the idea that there was a lot of commections through the whole Jesus mythology. He has his disciples, he ends up betrayed by someone close by. They even work with ryuji and astrega at times kinda like how the Bible is created. He is the "messiah who sacrifices himself."
Just curious but, have you studied semiotics or something related to the field of signs?? Because honestly your analysis was quite good, I saw a thesis about the translation in Persona 5 characters and their references and your video reminded me a lot to it, in the way of how deep and precise it was, so I hot a bit curious about your academic backgrounds. Anyways, just by seeing some of your other videos I can definitely say that this is top notch Persona content, or even top RUclips content maybe for the quality of the analysis, congratulations.
Persona 3 is my favorite game in the series and my favorite character in the game is well... Me aka Makoto Yuki, When I saw the name of one particular persona I realized what it meant... Thanatos aka the Son of Nyx and Erebus is the Greco/Roman interpretation of The Grim Reaper. Thanatos and his ilk across all mythologies are usually my favorite. So makoto's and by extension Aigis' journey are the reasons why those two are among if not my favorites
Hermes is also a guide to underworld aka junpei to chidori
One thing you didn't mention was that the armor castor wears is broken and battered and the cannon is a blade impaling it
Hey Virgilia. I hope you’re doing great!
Could there be a meaningful tie to Aigis with Orpheus mechanical body? After all, it's Aigis that sets Makoto on the path of the wild card to begin with.
While she discovers her humanity through Makoto, Makoto himself rediscovers his humanity alongside her. Apart from physically being human, he's just as much of a husk as she is at the start of the game.
After she becomes as human as she can she unlocks Orpheus as HER Persona.
If you romance her (which is canon to the films) Makoto touches her heart burning his DNA and possibly memories into her in her final social link. Whether this affects her is unknown however I like to think she gains Orpheus at that point which is why he still looks like Makoto and doesn't take Aigis' looks (unlike femc) and she only accesses Orpheus when she's given the emotional push she needs.
She could've awoken to ANY persona but she awoke specifically to Makoto's persona, the boy she loved more than anything.
Idk if you've played the Persona 4 Arena story but if so I wonder if you'd make a bonus video on Labrys' Persona
Subbing for when I finish the game ❤