Shiho’s mental strength and physical recovery *really* hits home for me as someone who has also had to learn to walk again. I experienced full-body paralysis and was diagnosed with transverse myelitis in late 2015. I relearned how to do daily tasks like dressing myself, eating with utensils, and of course, how to stand and walk again over the following year. I still experience mobility issues and chronic nerve dysfunction/pain, but I’m beyond grateful for my personal Christian faith and, like Shiho, the support of family and friends to help me through it!~ It took me a while to get this video out, so thanks for your patience! 😊 🎮TWITCH: www.twitch.tv/ladyvirgilia 🐤TWITTER: @VirgiliaLady twitter.com/VirgiliaLady 🌟PATREON: www.patreon.com/LadyVirgilia GENSHIN LORE CHANNEL~ ruclips.net/user/LadyVirgiliaGenshin
Wow. I didn’t think that this particular episode of P5 Sociocultural Analysis would affect you so much. Granted, I haven’t watched this video yet but, I watching it now to see the world in your eyes, somewhat. Edit: I just watched the video, and I am now enlightened with this new information. Now when I look back at this game, I now realize that when Ann is mentioned for her looks in the story, it’s not just that she’s a “foreign” beauty, but that she is ostracized just for being a hafu herself. Thank you for lighting the way.
I wanted to just write this post about how impressive all the effort you put into working to reclaim your life is to read about. It's great to hear you had such supportive family, and friends there for you what must have been extremely difficult times, and I get the impression that despite the hurdles of bad health you have a positive outlook on life, which is always important. As someone who merely has to deal with 4 limb CRPS 24/7 nerve pains (plus a buncha other assorted health conundrums, including occasional limb glitches) that has lasted now for some over 11 years, hunkering down for the difficult winter months to come (as cold makes my own battles much harder) reading your words about your own challenges was quite inspirational. Thank you for sharing, and I wish you only the best in these difficult times!
Don't worry, this experience means a lot to me in many positive ways! I know I wouldn't have learned nearly as much nor would I have been as emotionally tough as I am now due to these experiences.
She’s stated to be part Finnish. I’m a quarter Finnish and my great grandmother’s sides original last name was Ohramaki. Finnish last names can sound Japanese sometimes which I think is a fun fact.
I know this is a sensitive issue so please tell me if I'm being insensitive here, but I have a personal speculation as to another reason why a lot of sexual offenses don't get reported in Japan. The "shikata nai" or "it can't be helped" attitude, which is something P5 focuses on in its final dungeon (or penultimate in the case of Royal) Basically it's the prevailing idea that bad things happen and it's inappropriate to make a fuss about them, you should just accept that they happened and you can't do anything about it, and move on. In general getting emotional is frowned on in Japan and it's seen as a sign of resilience to stay stoic in the face of hardship. There also seems to be a general attitude that other people's or families' problems are their own and it's wrong to get involved in them, which leads to friends of abuse victims being hesitant to speak out. And the shame culture that was mentioned in a previous video in this series, victims might feel like they and their families will be be associated with this forever if they speak out. A lot of domestic abuse in Japan apparently goes unreported for a combination of these reasons.
Yes that's a good point! I think shikata ga nai definitely plays a part into victims not coming forward. It's a mindset my family and community is very familiar with, especially when it comes to the internment of Japanese American citizens during WWII in America. Shikata ga nai *did* play a big role into the perseverance of my grandparents and family friends during that time though. Like most mindsets, there are both drawbacks and benefits to it.
I feel like it is a little unfair to target Japan for that though, because that is a unique cultural trait that goes well beyond sexual offenses. It's an ideological stance that is held by all the people, men and women alike, and in many ways of life, can lead to a person being stronger and not falling into the "victim mentality". Women may shake of sexual abuse and say "it happens" and move on, just as men may shake off a violent attack or unfaithfulness and say "it happens" and move on. When talking about an entire cultural belief, you can't just focus on how it affects one thing to decide if it's good or bad. You need to take into account the effect it has on the entirety of the culture, and weigh the good points against the bad points. When speaking on a subject of someone else's culture, I recommend getting the viewpoints of Japanese women and taking those into account, because I've asked them about this. It may seem like a hard way to live to you, but to someone that's grown up with it, it's the preferable way. Many people would rather forgive the bad traits of a person and be forgiven themselves, rather than always feel the pressure to fight against their natural instincts. They see this as a way to focus more on your talents and strengths. Also, just as a side-note, while people in Japan may be less willing to report sexual assault, that STILL would not explain the MASSIVE difference in case numbers between them and the West. Children are safe to travel unaccompanied across the country to locations without fear. In most Western countries that'd be suicide. Japan is undeniably a safer country to live in. So, maybe we should focus less on what we perceive them to be doing wrong, and focus more on what they are doing right, and how we can emulate their success. I'm not saying that sexual assault should be tolerated. Please don't think that. Japanese women don't tolerate it either. They just have a broader sense of what constitutes it. Maybe that's not good, but, maybe people are overall happier when they are less critical of another person's flaws. I have a Japanese friend recently who told me that her brother often takes her underwear. I asked her if it bothers her, and she said "Kinda, but he is a guy afterall. His instincts make him horny, but they also make him provide for me and protect me despite how crazy I get. I'm happy with that."
Yes very common, was in japan when a friend told me while in jet a woman was fondled and touched by a group of men and couldent do anything "cant be helped she wants it" is what the bar owner said she was cornered and had to take thr abuse.
The situation with Ann during Yusukes story could easily be revolved if Ann had been more in control in the scenario. It doesnt even need to be less comedic to work! Have Ann be the first one to mention the modeling stuff to get Yusuke to calm down. Have the others protest and be worried but Ann remains adamant and even hatches the plan to search the house with Mona while Yusuke is distracted. She says shes got some master scheme and it turns out to be dressing in layers. If you want to add to it: maybe Ann can use her model experience to start askong Yusuke for silly request about the set up and lightning of the room. At first Yusuke complies because he wants her to be comfortable but then the request get more ridiculous in Anns attemps to stall. BUT instead of getting annoyed Yusuke is actually really enthusastic about Anns ideas and starts getting really into making the room more Feng Shui or whatever while explaining his vision to Ann, she might even get swept up in his enthusiasm and actually WANT to start modeling totally forgetting why she even came here in the first place only for Mona to interupt and things go by back to how they did in the game from there. Just an idea.
I love Ann so much, she’s such a sweetheart as well as captivating. I legit got butterflies when romancing her in game because she’s so genuinely kind, passionate, and strong. I love her social link and watching her become more confident and self-assured despite everything she’s gone through.
I kinda wish her confidant focused for her and shiho but u still liked it for what it showed and it made me like her character more idk how people can say they hate her character
Wasn't Kamoshida also inspired by a Judo gold medalist, Masato Uchishiba, that was convicted of the same thing against his female pupils and got his medal revoked? And the bit about Ryuji getting called out would have worked better had it been in regards to his plan with Shido's VIP. Not when he tried to sacrifice himself to save his allies.
Yes I believe so! That's the figure the Japanese players narrowed down when P5 first released. I've actually been floating the idea of doing a video on the inspirations behind all the Palace Rulers after I'm done with this series. And so true! That would've been a much more tasteful place to put it if they were gonna go ahead and include a "beat up" scene no matter what!
@@LadyVirgilia So they managed to track down the real world inspirations, huh? At the very least. They could have shown the noble getting punched just to make up for it.
Then, somewhat ironically, they frame Joker hooking up with his teacher in a decidedly positive light. I get that Kamoshida was more of a villain, but the fact that she lets Joker skip class and stuff because they are hooking up is not a great look
Diffences is consent. Kamoshida rap* shiho while kawakami was asked to date her. Kawakami didn't even allow sex in her relationship with joker as well. The age of consent in Japan now is 16 and when the time the game released, it was 13.
@@Skyler-f7mI'm sorry, but I believe that's still incorrect. The lowered age of consent law for the time only applied either between minors or married individuals (which required guardian consent). Therefore, Joker and Kawakami's relationship would still be nonconsensual, her being his teacher only making it worse. This is even referenced in the game itself during Ohya's Confidant when she has Joker pretend to be her boyfriend. If I'm wrong about this feel free to correct me.
@@AdriannaDeaver it doesn't matter if it is between 20+ and 16+ or 16+ and 16+ As long as they reach se* consent age, they won't need guardian consent.
@@damndan1832 They're perfectly good platonic friends but I seriously doubt either of them could look at the other romantically. During Ann's confidant scenes she even jokingly flirts with him, saying "if you help me train I'll go on a date with you," and Ryuji just goes "dude why are you trying to act like some sexy anime lady?"
I always found that weird about Japan, if you're born in Japan but you're not "Japanese" racially, they still see you as a forigner. Where as in Australia, your race doesn't matter at all.. If you've got an Australian accent, you're "aussie" and there's no questions about it.
I think the whole femme fatale thing is more of about how she’s ok with her appearance and how others perceive her when it’s of her own will and not the will of people who are perverted in her regular life Tl;dr: she’s ok with it when it’s what she wants to show off
In Mementos Futaba has a line about wanting to fit in to an outfit like Panthers one day. Ann responds that its not like she wants to be dressed like this. I find it deeply troubling. I cant understand how her inner rebell manifested would be uncomfortable for her. Worse yet her outfit is so pleasing to the male gaze, yet she finds her persona when standing up to Kamoshida. I cant make in-game sense of it. It feels like the people making the game wanted their abuse victim to be eye candy, and it feels so disonant.
I believe she also mentioned part of her idea of a rebel is a female villain from an old show. If the design was similar and stuck with her... her psyche took that up and designed her suit after it... But she's not a fan of being in the actual costume she was just exposed to it
As much as P Studio tried to do a nice commentary in mysogyny and harrassment, they dropped the ball immediately, Ann becomes used as eye candy for a lot of the game and in promotional art At the end of the day, most of P5 was written and designed by men, Ann's sexy panther outfit would be absolutely no problem if she took her feminity and allure and was proud of it, used it to empower her but the writing tells the opposite: She's not confident in being portrayed as sexy and she doesn't weaponize her beauty (not ever in a willing way anyways) they could have made her more like Bayonetta, instead they fed into the "anime girl is put on embarrassing sexy situation against her will" trope
@@luizth42 Ann does actually use her beauty and her panther outfit and weaponises them. One of her passive skills is that she can “charm” enemy shadows and effectively stun them for a turn. Granted this only happens of you level up her confidant in which she becomes more confident in herself with the help of Joker in the aftermath of the Kamoshida incident.
I sometimes worry about that "Foreign Barker" guy in Shibuya. If you talk to him a lot, you see he gets a lot of trouble from random passerby who feel bold enough to start fights with him for being a big black dude. Stateside, that guy'd be justified in shoving those salarymen into a trash can, but he has to know that the Japanese cops wouldn't take his side for it. I wish as players we could give that guy a hand.
I just like the running gag that Ann is a bad actress when needling information out of targets but they fall for it anyway. But regarding Ryuji after Shido's palace, I 100% agree with you. The guy heroically risked his life for them and they repaid that by beating him to a pulp? That's not funny. If there ever was criticism for Atlus to take from the West, this should be it. The days of Love Hina girls beating up guys at the slightest excuse are over. On the other hand... if you notice Ann's random follow-up attack, she might have a talent for playing over-the-top female villains.
In regards to the infamous "Ryuji Beat-Up" scene, speaking as someone who identifies himself as having a bit Ryuji-like streak in him a mile wide, Ryuji's kind of the group punching bag--and not in a bad way. Throughout out the entire game, they're always ragging on him and teasing him, and he does the sort of jock response of not letting it affect him *too much*. There are certain times when he subtly lets them know when they go too far (for example, when Ann was teasing him about how Ryuji borrowed money from her to buy a dolphin back in middle school, the MINUTE he mentions his mother, Ann immediately stops teasing him.) But for the most part, I think he accepts his role and enjoys the slightly competitive camaraderie playful teasing that goes with his friends. And in a way, Ann's genuine outrage/hurt kinda shows the depth of her feelings she has for Ryuji as well.
The thing is, though, her “playful teasing “crosses the line several times. Friends don’t hit each other, or set you up to be judged or constantly insult you. That’s not OK.
yeah, it is a complete trope to have the girls beat on him for being too impulsive and insensitive, and I thought it would play better if not for ann's backstory.. I think the animation could have made this a bit more comedic too, like a slap on the back, but she really gives him a proper right hook, which is too much, and just not in Ann's character. The reality is that while the game is tackling some powerful subjects it also wants to fit snuggly into the anime cliches, and this video says, it can be jarring at times. The video didn't even touch upon the lecherous behaviour that Ann faces from her own teammates. Especially Ryuji and Morgana. It's fan service, and would be fine if she weren't an actual victim of sexual harassment.. I love persona 5, its one of my favourite games, but they dropped the ball a bit here
Another excellent video Lady, great job! While I'm still a bit iffy on Ann's confidant, I definitely appreciate it a bit more after hearing your breakdown of her struggles to improve herself. I'm also in agreement over the two joke scenes. While I don't think there was too much of an issue with the Ann stripping joke, I do think it was a mistep to not have her take the initiative to do it herself rather than having Joker and Ryuji egg her on to do it. I could see a reversal joke being better for that scene where Joker and Ryuji start thinking of other ways to infiltrate the cottage, then Ann remembers Yusuke's request and sparks the conversation with that. Ryuji would get flustered and remind her of what she just went through with Kamoshida and she brushes it off, saying something like "I don't think Yusuke is anything like Kamoshida, but if he does try anything funny then a swift kick is coming his way." Or perhaps she hints at her later shenanigans with the fifty something layers of clothes by saying she's got some backup supplies for such an occasion. The Ryuji getting beat up after saving everyone joke was definitely a low point for the game. It gave me Persona 4 flashbacks with the girls constantly making assumptions and attacking the guys for no reason. Honestly, I'd just erase the joke entirely and have it be an actual moment for the Phantom Thieves to realize Ryuji's alive and hugging him with tears of joy.
honestly ryuji gets the shaft quite a bit yusuke has a very iffy intro with the nude modeling but then its never brought up except as a joke but ryuji is constantly put down by the other pts it kinda blows hell even in his own confidant you let him get beat up
I have to whole-heartedly agree with you about the 'beat up Ryuji' scene. My reaction was like...Why are you beating him up? If someone came back from the dead like that, I'd be hugging them, just glad they were okay. So what if he made a joke, it's how he is! He was probably just trying to lighten the mood, and then they just LEFT HIM THERE, ugh. I really did not like that scene at all.
Me too. I hate that part. It’s just like they saying it’s fine if females act violent on men. Also, I don’t think he make a joke. He literally thought he died as well, right?
I also kinda hate the part where MC didn’t help Ryuji getting hit on by the two homo dudes. He getting harassed so why just leave him? That’s not what friends should do
I saw those scenes as Ann "weaponising" her sex appeal rather than them making a joke out of her issues. For those moments, Ann is in control of the whole situation rather than being exploited and manipulated like with Kamoshida. She's essentially owning her beauty and using it to get what she needs, essentially a role reversal, which further demonstrates how she no longer has any grievances over her appearance and is more accepting of it thanks to Shiho and later the rest of the Phantom Thieves. It also ties into how her Phantom Thief attire is based on a dominatrix in addition to some her confidant skills like the "sexy technique" With the moments involving Yusuke and the noble, the comedy more came from Ann's terrible acting and that it somehow works but she is still ultimately able to trick them for her and the other's benefit. So I personally never thought of those scenes as being "insensitive" but rather trying to further showcase her character growth.
I only saw that personally in Shido’s place, any other scene where Ann used her sex appeal, it was under someone forcing/pressuring her to do it (Ryuji, Yusuke and MC). Tho I do see where u are coming from.
@@TheOwlet22 While she was being pressured, which I more viewed as the Thieves having no other option to get what they need, in the moment itself she's still displayed as being the more dominant one in the scenario
It’s a slippery slope, but saw those scenes in much the same way. Taking back her beauty and assuming the femme fetal role within the Phantom Thieves. These just clash with her sensibilities as a teenage girl with premature sensibilities, reflected in her All-Out Attack screen’s esthetic and her preferred food is usually sweets. So the transition from fun loving somewhat air headed girl to sexy confident and in control woman, wasn’t going to be be smooth one (especially with that acting). That’s just my take since there is still debate over whether execution of these ideas hit the mark. However, I just don’t like viewing Ann as victim when these instances occur, since she has shown to not loose control over herself and her situation. (At least in the context of the story, I know there can be dissonance with Atlas and their games when it comes to these things).
That's honestly a big aspect of Ann's character that I love. Most characters after sexual abuse are guarded about looks and beauty and their body, but Ann isn't going to let Kamoshida win and destroy the value of the one thing that's hers: her body. She's moving forward instead of standing still and that is strength.
@@TheOwlet22 I feel like people tend to forget that A: She didn't actually strip nude. B: Yusuke is not romantically interested in her. C: Ryuji and MC stated that they would have her back if things go haywire. This is coming from a guy who thinks the beginning of Madarame arc was off-putting.
You’re videos are incredibly valuable and informative. Ann’s story touched deeply. I do find it (and all of the P5 stories and themes and politics) to be quite universal, that is if you’re as observant of humanity as I try to be, but if course, having the specific context of Japan is invaluable to the richest understanding. I had some senses of the Japanese context via just being an anime nerd and etc. but your videos provide so much more. Thank you.
- Unfortunately, these social issues aren’t much different or more prominent in Japan than they are anywhere else. This includes the idea that sexual assault “can’t be helped”, and a hostility to foreigners. Careful not to fall into the trap of pretending any given foreign culture is uniquely backwards, as that’s it’s own brand of racism (Side note, fan service of teens in media for teens, like Persona, is generally acceptable). And NO, Japan does not have a pedophile culture, before anybody says anything.
The entrance of Blue Destination when you started talking about Ann's resilience was just so epic. Your well researched and educated analysis is just a dream come true.
Awesome video. Reconciling the MESSAGE that P5 wants to state vs the jokes etc is probably the only real issue I have with the game. Thank you, catching up on your content is saving me right now ✌🏼 Greetings from the Netherlands
I find it mind-boggling that this series doesn't have more views. Hearing about Persona 5's themes from a Japanese lens is a downright eye-opening, and gives me a deeper appreciation of the game.
Ann is underrated imo, it's nice to see that a hot girl character who's not a bimbo. She's passionate and good with people. Her character really shines
This was a amazing video Ann is actually such a beautiful and great character and actually the main reason I don’t feel ashamed being the only different or odd one in the room.
as a finn I always saw ann as mostly finnish. reason 1: Her name in the japanese versions of the persona games she appears in is anne, which is a super common name in finland and her surmane takamaki can be turned into takamäki by introducing the letter ä into the name. the surname takamäki means back hill in finnish and is infact a surname. now we have a finnish name for her, anne takamäki (some finnish women actually have that name). reason 2: she has lived in finland for some time (we don't know how long, but this confirmed that she even has ties to finland). reason 3: this is kinda dumb reason, but she is a blue eyed blond and finland has the most blue eyed blonds in the world (she looks like my sister💀) reason 4: she doesn't really have any japanese features that would connect her to being japanese final reason: making her american is one of the laziest moves you can make when making a foreign white character. persona 2 already had a blue eyed blond girl who was american. americans in general have so much representation in media, so it would be nice to give other nationalities some attention.
I always like how Ann finds strength in the villainesses and how that’s reflected in her costume seemingly being a reference to Catwoman. I do wish the cleavage window was a little smaller, just because she is one move away from a costume malfunction. Her finding strength from the two key ladies in her confidant is really nice. Joker is great, but he can’t 100% provide the support she needs as a girl, a victim, and a model. Her growth has to stem from herself in the end. I like that. I also like that Ann is still okay with being looked at, so long as it’s on her terms. The scene with Ryuji at the beach was a breath of fresh air, just letting her goof with her friend in a context where she’s okay with being attractive. She really should’ve hugged him after he nearly died. Hugs > punches. The Yusuke scene could’ve been better if Ann was the one who made the offer rather than the boys. It would’ve been a step in the direction of her taking control of her femininity. She could’ve shown off her wits too through the many many layers of clothing because that part was hilarious. I would’ve also liked a discussion with Yusuke about what’s appropriate to ask someone who wasn’t raised among artists and only artists. That’s even assuming the nude modeling subplot needed to happen. She could’ve just modeled!
Ann is my favorite Persona 5 character and I’m glad you gave her some justice. In spite of some flaws here and there, I still think she’s a well-written and enjoyable character that is frankly quite underrated. I don’t think the Yusuke and Shido palace scenes were THAT insensitive, and the comedy mostly came from Ann’s terrible acting rather than the situation itself, although I do see why someone like you Lady wouldn’t be so fond of those moments. I’d say a good example of Ann shining as a character is when she teases Ryuji for perving at her on the beach. It’s a small moment that speaks volumes to me as it helped elevate her character IMO.
Lady is very cultured. She's finally done a video on the wonderful Ann. I haven't click on a video so fast lately xD. Ann is the reason why I got into Persona. Saw some dude playing the game in a YT video and instantly got hooked on the game. 3 years later, this is probably my all-time favourite game now. Although I adore her character, her story in the game kinda gets pushed aside after that Kamoshido episode. We saw a lot of her character and her struggle to cope with not only a sexually abusive teacher but also her suicidal friend, Shiho. That's what I like about Ann, her kind personality and that with Erika Harlacher's voicing acting was a brilliant match. People who know me in the community know I am I a huge Ann fan, but my next comment might surprise some people. Overall, I did not feel much resolve in her during her bonding events. There were some nice scenes and a decent final bonding event, but I was expecting more back story as we saw in the Kamoshida episode. I feel that the sociocultural elements you discussed in the video should have been explored more in her character and I would have loved to have seen more lore about her parents and her Western heritage. But what I do like the most is how the game expressed her personality through Carmen and Hecate. She shares similar elements of beauty with Carmen and Hecate (a mythological entity) who is seen as a protector figure (e.g. Ann trying to protect her friend Shiho from being abused by Kamoshida). I thought that was a really good representation of her character. Anyhow, sorry for the long message, but this sums up the reason why I really adore Ann, not just for her waifu assets as everyone seems to think. Just kidding :). Brilliant video, Lady.
Yooo awesome to hear it! Thank you Ann and Erika Harlacher for luring DP to the Persona crowd haha! I like how Ann's confidant focuses on modeling since it's generally associated with women and female empowerment, but otherwise I agree it would've been nice to see more of how Ann and people like her are treated in the main story. It's both a blessing and a curse that Persona 5 is so bombastic with its ideas. Each sociocultural issue and character only gets a single arc before we're moving on to the next palace. I will get to doing videos on the main cast's personas after this series is over. Nice to hear some of your thoughts on them though! And nahhh don't ever apologize for the long, thoughtful message!~
I'm kind of in the same boat, I feel like not just Ann, but a lot of P5's cast drop off in focus after their arc. Haru gets accusations of this the most, but Ann and Yusuke also go through this. I feel like P4 was better at keeping the party members relevant after their arcs were over, but it also had the opposite issue: some of the party members had initial arcs that had very little story relevance (Kanji and Rise, my two favourite characters, I fully admit could have their dungeons removed and not much of the story would change. I love their dungeons for covering some very relevant Japanese social issues, but I'm talking about the over-arching mystery plot.) I think P3 did the best job of both integrating its cast into the plot AND developing them, but it had the issue that most of its cast were designed to give off very bad early impressions (Mitsuru, Yukari, Ken, even Akihiko kinda) and take a LONG time to fully develop, which led to the fans outright hating some of them. tldr, every party from P3 to P5 has completely different strengths and weaknesses for me, which might stem from how different the three games are thematically.
This was an excellent video! I especially appreciated that you highlighted the weird part where Ann was gonna do the nude painting as completely out of touch after we just spent the first 20 hours of the game battling the sexist harassment she's faced from Kamoshida. It's crazy how fast they turned her undressing into the story and write it off as "lol anime trope xDDDDDD" As a guy who's half white and half Chinese living in America. I've really connected with Ann in the story feeling out of place and that people are always judging you. I've always felt like I stick out as much as Ann, but treat you like Ryuji when your an asian guy living in America
Yeah I also felt it was weird It feels like they had two ideas for story beats that they loved but couldn’t put a good and coherent line there to connect them. Similar thing with Yusuke. He is clearly meant to be seen as a creep when he gets first introduced and then later it becomes clear that if anyone asks you to pose nude for purely artistic purposes it would be this guy, but they’ve made him a bit too creepy before he joins the team. I feel like both of these problems could have been better, if Mamoshida told Yusuke to draw Ann in the nude. Something like this The whole conflict started when Mamoshida and Ann’s modeling company decided on a cross promotion of their young talent and wanted Yusuke to draw Ann in general, only for Mamoshida to decide this must become a nude picture and him pressuring Yusuke into drawing her as such. Since Yusuke would still be completely enamored and blinded by his mentors awfulness, he starts to become more forceful with his insistence. Then the moment the illusion breaks for Yusuke, he apologizes to Ann and explains how he felt pressured to preform.
I came to this channel for 1 hour analysis of my favorite pancake boi and stayed for one of the best content on Persona series on whole YT. All those analysis are a great reminders that games can be culturally impacted works of art as much as they can be just a time consuming fun activity. But coming back on topic of Ann - I am very happy to hear more people talk about that clash of Ann's portrayal between Kamoshida and Madarame arcs. I remember Extra Credits mentioning that in their "Perversion Subversionteachthematically improper for a quick joke. They did so in P4 as well, but in P4 is not as thematically clashing. Just like Lady mentioned in video - situations like when Ryuji was treated awfully after he almost lost his life trying to save his team were where I could not understood why writers thought that was appropriate way to lessen the tension in that scene. One of those tropes used in P5 and that I hate was the "Yusuke is such a weird pervert" joke. Like, Yusuke is eccentric and quirky - that was his whole appeal but also one of the main reasons why he had problems with finding his own place in world. I was always bothered how it was never really addressed later that Yusuke should not blackmail Ann to strip, so instead they made a joke out of it. While playing P5D when doing a combo you can sometime hear Yusuke's excitement and his cheering and there is a possibility that other character will call him a weird pervert for it. Those jokes feel appropriate for a group of teenagers who did not suffered through many hardships together. They are way too hurtful for no reason in my opinion. What bugs me as well was the fact that MC could date Kawakami while they never mention how Kawakami was basically blackmailed to basically start her confidant. Again, we did payed her a lot for those services (she's never threatened to do things for free at least, those need to be unlocked by helping her) and in the end MC helped her through the change of heart of the her dead student's relatives. But again, I feel like the power dynamic here was showed as a joke "haha isn't the fact that women that has usually higher status than me is now my maid" feel weird. I might just be salty because I never got to date any of the Boys in the game and the fact that the game will let you indulge in unhealthier, but straight relationships leave bad taste in my mouth. a Also sorry if my lil essay was hard to follow at any point - I have many feelings when it comes to Persona games and not being the English native speaker does not help at all while trying to collect all of your thoughts. ^^"
i agree with you on all points. I noticed all those things when I played the game and it really makes me worry about future Persona games if the same writters who are never confronted about those issues continue to 'serve the fans' what they think they want.
I absolutely agree with all of this. Persona 5's blind spots feel glaring given how much effort they put into seeing uncomfortable truths in so many other aspects of the setting. Honestly quite a few of Joker's "romances" feel totally out of place and put in as fan service at the expense of the story and characters, including Ann's. She has a very touching scene with Shiho which feels pretty intimate if not romantic, including Shiho saying "I love you," and then immediately after while Ann's crying and saying "I'm alone now" you can have Joker shock her by hugging her and confessing, which she excepts but looks super unhappy about??? It's so weird! I don't know if they were trying to tap into some straight guy fantasy that I just can't comprehend or what but I found it very uncomfortable to watch
@@Jetsetlemming a lot of jokers romances were just a little bit strange, maybe it's cause joker never talks i don't know. They feel so... forced i guess, the scenes are a bit uncomfortable to watch for me.
@Kira Diaz Speaking of, my guess for sociocultural issue for Ryuji is either the delinquent archetype or domestic violence and its effects. But I dunno bout Yusuke. Edit: I didn’t know about “Yankii” until now.
Amazing video as always, and you definitely made me appreciate her confidant more, though yes I definitely agree that the way they executed the femme fetal trope came off as insensitive. I think a way for P5 to have improved on it is by giving more attention to the fact that Ann is claiming her body for her own rather than letting it define her, maybe making her more assertive in making herself comfortable with her body as the story progresses. She can show this by doing what she did in Shido's Palace but much more frequent while doing it with maturity instead of using it for comedy purposes or fan service. Then again though I might be wrong since Im not a good writer myself but that's my two scents on it dhdbdhdb ;u;
Ahhh I'm glad to hear I could paint Ann's confidant in a better light~ I like your idea. It would've been nice to see Ann growing more confident in using her feminine charms (like a nicer Mika lol) over the entire course of the main story instead of just in the final palace.
@@LadyVirgilia Yup, also this goes for everyone too and it's that All the Phantom Thieves are based on Heist Group Character type tropes, the problem is most of their roles are under utilised in the story such as (of course) Ann, Yusuke, Haru, and a bit with Ryuji. I wish in each palace, everyone who was in the team could have served a purpose in a puzzle/story in some way. Like use Yusuke's Art abilities to forge a document or something, instead of just using it for the calling cards, or how bout use Haru's money to serve something in the narrative (which I think was confusing why they never brought up that Haru is filthy rich, and could perhaps have helped with at least a few of things they're doin). At the same time though I will give them props for doing great job utilizing MC, Morgana, Makoto, and Futaba (even tho she and Makoto got over used in my opinion).
I do want to make mention about the idea of the idea of Ann as the foreigner in her own country. Sadly the US isn't much better in this regard. I was born in the US and when I was very young, my dad's job took him overseas where we lived till I was about 10 years old and he came back to the states. When I started back to school here, I would get beat up and bullied under the assumption that I was an immigrant and was told to go back to where I came from. The irony there wasn't lost on me since I just HAD come back to my own country. It could have been much worse since I'm white. But it is something I can relate to Ann about since there is that slight connection of being treated like an outsider within what should be your own country.
The irony here is that the only way Ann could even have light blonde hair and bright blue eyes is if her Japanese parent had also several such foreigners in their lineage as the genes for blonde hair and blue eyes are recessive and close to always disappear in a caucasian-east asian pairing.
@@shiroamakusa8075 actually no eye color isn't a Mendelian genetic trait neither is hair color. eye color has 3 genes that controls it which can have random cross over mutations hair color is linked to at least 5 genes currently it just takes a single ancestor to have the mutation of blonde hair for it to occur without a double recessive from both parents due to cross over mutations. It's the same reason red hair is found in non Caucasian races even without the person being mixed. High schools just use hair and eye color as lazy examples when we've known since ~2006 that you just need one your hominid ancestors to have a hair or eye color mutation for it to randomly occur during cross over
I disagree about Ann's characterization as "insensitive and tonally dissonant." Viewed from the lens of a "girl who was a victim" becoming a "woman with a strong sense of justice", so to speak, she's learning to weaponize her femininity in a way to catch would-be aggressors and abusers off their guard before she flips the switch and takes them down in a very strong, capable, and self-reliant way. In a way, it's almost like she's saying "Yeah, I'm a female. Yeah, I look sexy. So what? If the only thing you think about when you see me is how good I look, then you know nothing about me." And I *really* appreciate that, actually.
@@MB-tj7xhI totally agree with you. Ann weaponising her femininity is absolutely fine, but I think the way the game frames it after the Kamoshida arc is definitely meant to appeal to a male audience (especially cause there’s a LOT of focus on her body), rather than her using her femininity to take control of the situations. It kind of turns her back into the victim in these situations since she doesn’t go into them willingly, like the whole thing with Yusuke at the beginning of the Madarame arc
@@A_keo seriously that painting scene is unforgivable writing and Atlus should be fucking ashamed of themselves because "She has to get naked but she doesn't want to" isn't the laughing riot they thought it was
I think its more like shes the games fujiko mine and unlike fujiko weaponizing her sexuality was more awkward. The gag just stands out due to its proxinity to all that real drama.
From a bit more charitable point Ann's use of seduction could also be viewed as a form of rebellion in itself for her story going from being treated like an object to being the subject and taking it back from those who just used or mocked her.
This was such an amazing character analysis. I’m currently working on my first fic for P5 and have been wanting some quality deep dives so I can write the characters better. I’m so glad I found this, and I hope you’ll do the other PTs. Edit: Ah, so you have done the others. I got my binge for today!
As seeing myself as somewhat of an outsider or black sheep I certainly can relate to the idea of Ann's character situation of sticking out but wanting to blend in (not anymore for me) the fact she eventually sticks to what she believes and cares about while going through a lot of bad stuff shows strength despite how much she questions her own strength (real modesty there). On the topic of the social dynamics in Japan its kinda sad to see the idea of conforming to the mass being one of acceptance since to me an important pro and con of humans being our individuality so just simply following the trend in my mind is always a no go, stick to your own convictions and develop your own opinions. If your opinion matches others and you end up being accepted that's good and fine but don't compromise your beliefs and opinions for the masses. Evidently though in the case of Japan a relatively sheltered culture it may never really end up being the case that truly 'unique' individuals will always be bullied and told to conform to the masses (certainly not a Japan only problem my own experience through schooling comes to mind) the real important point to me though is that anyone in this situation of being an outcast is the ability to hold strong despite how bad it might get and if needed find someone willing to help. Just thought id add my few thoughts to the topic.
I really hate her outfit. I still cannot believe they took the sexual assault victim and put her in fetish wear that she actively hates and feels objectified in. Her character arch was kneecapped at every turn in the name of fanservice. Even her persona summon has some weird sexual stuff in it which takes away from her amazing moment of deciding to stand up to her abuser.
@@Snapdragon0112 This comment needs to be higher up. I feel the same about her fetishization, totally out of place and frankly annoying. Everybody has cool multiverse outfit, but she has bdsm skin suit.. Omg why, so lame.
I might get hate for this but a part of Ann's character that isn't talked about is owning her body and sexuality. You mentioned it with the Femme Fatale part, but I see it as her owning her physical form and rebelling against society by having 100% control of how she is seen. In her main Arc, she is seen as slutty and an object DESPITE being quite chaste and unassuming in reality. In the metaverse, she is flipping the narrative by dressing in all red, showing cleavage and high boots, but actively whipping the impure thoughts out of everything to the point where her body has become a weapon. I always think, "why is she in a red tight suit when everyone else is super stealthy?" It is because she is hiding in plain sight. She lures predators in with bright red, with her body, with her looks, and then lashes out (literally) severely punishing them for underestimating her power and authority as a force to be reckoned with. Her own body is for her to enjoy, her presence and power for her to be used by her, and she'll never let anyone take control of her narrative again. The fact that she uses sex appeal as this lure only emphasizes her inability to blend in with the crowd. If you gotta stand out, stand out so much that you can't possibly be ignored. Shoot straight to the top in a field with no competition. This may or may not have been a connection to the Miss Japan being mixed Race as well. The common Japanese person wrote her off because of her race, but she still won. I'm sure she faced extreme adversity, but she still friggin won, and that's how I feel about Ann.
I had the exact same interpretation. I felt that Ann' initial rejection of her outfit was a hint to the fact that there was a dissonance between how she "wants" to rebel and how she "should" rebel. Their outfits aren't like the Matrix where they can choose; they're selected from their subconscious. Since she doesn't mention it again, yet quickly adjusts - my interpretation is that she realized that weaponizing her alluring qualities would not only use her "best features" but also lure in the exact type of people she'd most want to rebel against. Considering how fast she submits to the nude painting plan, I interpreted it as her realizing that the gang needs that from her, and that she accepted it because she's actually happy to do it, but can't outright say it. I simply don't see Ann as someone sticking around if she was uncomfortable with doing these things: Even without her confidant events, she's confident enough to just walk away. I might be reaching with my interpretation, but if we had an event verify Ann' intentions to be as I described, she'd be seen in a much more sexualized light than she currently is.
@nivyan i love this! As I'm writing , I'm having this thought: That's what models do, that's who models are. Anyone who sees a model as just a sexy body or a pretty face is themselves shallow and judgemental. Ann is a model, she stands for something. I do think she may be too young to realize the true power she has in the real world, just by virtue of being herself and being unashamed of her body, she definitely comes to realize that power in the metaverse. The nude painting scene just brings it all full circle for Ann. Every aspect of her character, from her mixed race, natural blonde hair, outgoing personality, etc, she was made to stand out. Some people were born to be seen, and Ann is a character that knows what to do with that power
@@squidnipendleton3765 Totally agree. I personally love that depiction, because it's respectful without being sexual - which can be a really hard line to balance. I feel that the reveal of her many layers of clothes is both hilarious and Ann' first attempt at weaponizing her body. We don't see the aftermath, but considering Yusuke and Ann' close relationship throughout the game - it's seems clear that she performed excellent while still having respect for Yusuke. That's an amazing shift in perspective and, to me, speaks to strengths that she doesn't realize she has until her confidant events.
Ryuji 100% did not deserve to get beat up after saving everyones ass, I know its a cliche gag in anime but it pisses me off so much best boy gets his ass beat for no reason other than he's meant to be the 'comidic releif' character. Thye should have hugged him not punched him!
Tbh I think the "beat up ryuji" scene would be fine if it just ended with something more positive, like them crying and hugging him after. I enjoy the "you dummy, we were worried about you" into a hit or two, but he didn't deserve whatever happened offscreen and then getting left in the dirt
I know this video is 2 years old, and you will probably not see this message, but have you checked out Persona 2 as there is a character like this in the game Lisa, who is 100% white by her parents but was born and raised in Japen. Her parents want to raise her as a typical Japanese girl, and to become a proper Japanese bride to such a degree, they refuse to teach her English or anything else about her family culture. She then has to deal with the fact that because she is white, everyone else treats her like a foreign, so she doesn't really fit in anywhere.
Wow - this is incredibly well done. Interesting, subtle, and clearly communicated. Added layers to this game that were invisible to me otherwise. A subtle reading takes a subtle reader, apparently. Thanks for sharing.
The united states is MUCH more diverse then 23% racial minorities. The 76% "white alone" category also counts Hispanics/Latinos. The bottom "white alone not Hispanic or Latino" is better measurement to go off of. This would make the united states around 40% racial minorities if you take into account Hispanics and Latinos.
23:45 Ann's appreciation of those qualities within and despite adversity are even reflected in the meaning of her Arcana: while The Lovers is commonly thought of as symbolic of one's love life, it also represents the overcoming of trials.
The interesting thing about that is while this is correct in Japanese the interpretation of the Lovers Arcana is more direct. In the first two or three Persona games it’s referred to as the 恋人 (koibito) arcana meaning actual lovers and then later on as the 恋愛 (ren’ai) arcana which means passionate or true love. It’s why I’ve always paired the MC with the Lovers as the canonical pairing in my playthroughs.
I know I'm late to the party, but I just finished playing through P5R. I have enjoyed your analysis of all the characters through the lens of Japanese socio-cultural constructs. I've learned a lot about Japanese culture, and this has shed additional light on some of my favorite characters. None more so than Ann. Until watching this video I always felt her confidant story was a huge letdown. I wanted her to do more than be determined to be as good at modeling as the awful, scheming Mika-chan. You've helped me see her determination to succeed within her chosen sphere of modeling is evidence of Ann's growth and maturity. I had never looked at her story in quite this way. In all your videos, you've never looked at any of the romantic narratives. I'm interested to know what the dating and relationship possibilities look like when seen through the lens of Japanese culture. Would you consider doing a video that looks at whether or not Joker would realistically date one of his fellow PTs and how that would play out? Maybe then you could look at some of the less likely romantic relationships, such as his option to date Takemi or Kawakami? Thanks!
- Unfortunately, these social issues aren’t much different or more prominent in Japan than they are anywhere else. This includes the idea that sexual assault “can’t be helped”, and a hostility to foreigners. Careful not to fall into the trap of pretending any given foreign culture is uniquely backwards, as that’s it’s own brand of racism (Side note, fan service of teens in media for teens, like Persona, is generally acceptable). And NO, Japan does not have a pedophile culture, before anybody says anything.
Great video on my favorite girl in all of video games! I didn't think this video existed until I saw it in my recommendations. I learned a lot of new things while reaffirming my love of Ann. Ann's story is a really great example of character growth. Her personality and kindness are attributes that really stick out for me whenever she's on screen. And understanding where true strength lies really solidified my love for her. Once again, I really enjoyed this video! And on the Ryuji beat up scene: I know a lot of controversy comes from that scene but I personally find it very comedic. The girls were distraught at the idea of him dying, only for him to reappear unharmed. It's the common troupe that I've seen many times but never really gets old when executed properly. In my opinion, it shows how much they care about him.
Common trope or not, it still feels very out of character for all the girls to beat up one of their closest friends, who has a history of abuse, and just almost sacrificed themself to save them.
Bit of a hot take, but I like to think Ann is like another sister to Joker; I just can't imagine the two of them together romantically, but their bond is stronger than just friends.
I just want you to know how grateful I am for these videos! It makes me even more emotionally connected to these characters who I love so much! Your Akechi video made me cry and this video made me think deeply about the racism that occurs all across the world, not just in America. Please don’t stop doing what you do!
while I love this portion of her character arc. I feel like a different part of all this is completely skipped over. Like others have mentioned in the comments, her outfit is just some over-sexualized latex suit that she hates, while her entire story is about being more than just her looks. Her abilities from her confidant continue with this, by giving you sexy pose and crocodile tears to weaponize her looks, something she clearly doesn't want to do. Finally there are random moments throughout the various scenes in game where she reverts to being a "stupid blonde" instead of the ambitious, empathetic, hard working girl this story is about. Basically, Ann is supposed to be a hard working girl with ambition who is mistaken for a ditzy blonde because of her looks, but half the time she just is that ditzy blonde anyway.
Well real people are full of contradictions too, I think she appears more realistic because of it. You can hate being sexualized and a moment later you are fine with it, using it as a weapon, it doesn't have to be one thing or the other. I think it makes her more real. You can fit in a stereotype one moment and the next moment you seem to be a whole other person, it's really more real this way
I really enjoy all of the research that you put into these vids, thanks for making them! The anime community in particular really needs to be more educated on these issues, and doing it through tangential learning is really inspired. Looking forward to more of your content!
Very awesome video. The characterisation within the game and the layered plot is seriously great. Never played teh games myself but I enjoy stuff like this. Will get it on PC. Thanks.
With ann and the femme fatale stuff, i think they could have done something really interesting with ann regarding reclaiming her own sexuality and body after what shes been through. and you see hints of this. but i think they needed to be a lot more deliberate about it, and also the various times the male characters sexually harass the female ones just ruins the whole thing
1:14 It would be funny to throw in that meme of Double D from Ed Edd n Eddy saying, "In Japan" when you brought up Persona takes place around Japanese society issues.
Fascinating perspective! As someone who just played and beat Persona 5 Royal for the first time on Switch, I found myself baffled more often than not by the choices the writers made for Ann after Kamoshida’s palace. I at least would not think that a character who was the target of sexual harassment or perhaps even abuse would then turn around and make it her mission to become a fashion model. That seems to fly in the face of the idea that all Ann is good for is her looks. The fact that Ann decides to pursue modeling as a vehicle for forming a stronger relationship with her parents is something that I feel was a blink-and-you’ll-miss-it factor for me, though, so I am glad you highlighted that here…although it did strike me as odd throughout the game how little we see of *any* of the Phantom Thieves’ parents. Ann’s arc makes more sense to me now with your analysis. I still find the choices made with Ann to be weird, but at least now I have better context that explains probably why the writers chose the direction they chose for her.
I'm not 100% on Ann being a hafu. But that's probably because I've never liked how the Japanese seem to think hafu=full blown white when it comes to drawing them and because I like the theory that Takamaki is actually a Japanification of a Finnish last name.
She's 1/4 "American", right? American being more a culture than ethnicity these days, she's probably of Finnish descent while having an American grandparent.
Agreed! Also, I know it’s an anime game but only being a quarter white wouldn’t give her blond hair and blue eyes. That’s not how genetics work?? Blond hair and blue eyes are recessive traits, that would get drowned out by any darker traits in the genes. Ann being a quarter Japanese or just full white would’ve worked better for her character design, but oh well :/
Honestly surprised they didn’t go more in depth about how ann was a foreigner. Japan still has alot of racism issues and i think it would have gona really well with her character arc
Great job! It is impressive that the game lands so well still in other countries despite most people probably missing 90% of the sociocultural critiques. I appreciate the additional context these provide though. I'm a half-White and half-Vietnamese American. The racism towards Amerasians in Vietnam post-war and to this day is a massive issue. And we can certainly still feel a little out of place in the US with white crowds. Anyways, I think the beating up on Ryuji does just kinda fall into the genre trope category. There is an element of suspended disbelief for any of these sorts of anime tropes. You could maybe argue that some of these these moves that play on Ann's modeling/sexuality are a way of her reclaiming her own sexuality/agency. That would be a stretch for the Yusuke situation, but could maybe be said for the moves later. Side note: Ann probably doesn't have to work that hard on the nutrition/exercise part of modeling given the intensive exercise she would be getting as a phantom thief. I get the point they are making, but that level of combat and running around, etc would definitely leave her very fit. She would probably be burning enough calories to partake in some unhealthy food. I'm a distance runner that runs 50-60+ miles a week and can certainly afford to eat some unhealthy food while maintaining weight, abs, etc. And I think the phantom thieves would be getting more/tougher exercise.
Thank you for sharing a bit of your personal experience as an Amerasian. Though this is not of the exact same context (in regards to the wars...) I have cousins who are half-White and half-Japanese. And I've had that feeling at times, so I getcha haha. I can see an argument for Ann reclaiming her sexuality. Her confidant feels like a huge female empowerment thing in general, what with the focus on Shiho and Mika as inspirations, and the emphasis on modeling, a career field that's more associated with women. I just find the execution lacking unfortunately, since there's no exploration of getting over the Kamoshida incident/ a growing confidence peppered throughout the main story. I can sorta see what you mean when it comes to the PT's exercise. At the same time though, being in good shape isn't quite the same as targeted conditioning and/or toning of particular muscle groups. I'm under the assumption that models would have to focus on toning triceps (those tank tops lol) and glutes for example. Thanks for the thoughtful comment! Enjoy your long-distance runs!~
I always thought that people commented on her looks not only because of her being mixed, but also because people tend to victim blame someone depending on their appearance or origins. Like how some students say that Ann is "Easy" and even Talk about her "Being with" Kamoshida, but don't stop and think about how that is wrong, instead they paint her as the problem. And is only until the abuser confesses that people apologize for ever thinking she was like that.
If Ann truly is part Finnish, then the devs surely couldn’t resist the urge to make a naughty joke of her name. Since Ann is already a sexualised character, her Finnish version of the surname Takamäki, aka Backhill, can be seen as a sex joke on her ”backhill”, aka her butt or backside.
Another layer to this that I'd like to point out is that the ostracism faced by Ann due to being a 'Hafu' is something that leads to people not wanting to be friends with her or treat her nicely. But the fact that Shiho decided to befriend her despite this (and openly behaves nicely towards Joker even under abuse) shows not only that Shiho is just an amazing person, but also that she must have been ostracized for her behaviour not aligning with the collectivist agenda. This means that: 1) Ann must have felt even more guilty seeing Shiho having only Ann as her true close friend due to her decision to befriend a lonely 'Hafu' 2) Shiho must have felt even more powerless/helpless knowing that she has no one other than Ann to depend on while suffering abuse from Kamoshida 3) This in turn causes Ann to be further guilty as she knows that as the only person to have been able to help Shiho, she failed to save her friend from attempting suicide Honestly, the first arc of P5 is probably one of the best first impressions that sticks with the player long after much bigger events have happened in the game and the story has progressed further.
I've seen and heard the about the Pack mentality before, your family name is more inportant then the invidual wich on its own says alot. even in video games from japan bullying is a recurring subject, for example Lost Judgement, whose story goes for a big part about bullying in school. And the sexual harrasment just is the worst, especially when schools try to hide it just to save their reputation, something P5 shows very well. A great video, very informative on the social state in Japan, though i had already learned alot about from manga.
shiho is a favorite character in the series. i tend to be drawn to side characters in all things though lol. Futaba is my favorite main cast character though.
I wouldn't mind making friends with a foreigner, even though I would struggle with their language, but don't want them feeling lonely, and I can empathize for them.
Persona in general in my opinion tends to underdeveloped the first male and female classmate characters in order to help make the MC feel more like a teenager. As a result, any character introduced after the core four tend to be leaked more interesting. I love how royal corrects this by giving Ann more to do after her story arc. There is only so much you can give to the cool girl character when you have literal hackers, detectives, and an aikido practitioner in the story, so giving her the decision to study abroad and be more worldly really suits her, and makes me like her so much more
I recall a manga that had a half Japanese or quarter female protagonist. She had blonde or red hair and her old female teacher kept pestering her to dye it black. She eventually caved in but asked her Japanese boyfriend about it and is happy if she does her hair black. Not because he's disgusted by her natural hair, but just because he thinks its sexy. Don't know if she changes it back later. A light novel also had a half male protagonist with blonde hair, but looks very Japanese and a tough one at that. Also his hair color wasn't very nice compared to his mother or sister, so people assumed he was a punk who died his hair badly. Later on he dyes his hair to fit in as people were afraid of him when he joins the student council. Originally he never wanted to dye hi s1 hair as it was natural and he felt it honored his mother who passed away, but to make a real attempt in fitting in he dyes his hair. He does change it back in the end I believe.
It’s funny to think Japan has any type of xenophobia to whites / half whites when you consider the majority of their characters due to the stylization really do look like white people no one’s gonna look at Sailor Moon and be like oh that’s just an Asian girl with the blue contacts and blonde dyed hair ..... like it’s just the weirdest thing to me like to use the color pallets and genetic colored features that make up the most important basis of white identity ... then to hate on the race/mixes when they move to u country ...
I think most of the discrimination comes from being mixed and this goes for anyone who’s mixed with Japanese and raised in japan. And the anime part.. Well when you look at sailor moon you don’t go white girl either She doesn’t look like anyone like most anime characters. It’s a really confusing and dumb discussion The whole “white or asian anime characters” thing Because it honestly doesn’t matter at the end of the day.
That's part of the "Cool Japan" PR campaign, e with the government itself directly encouraging artists to make their characters not look like any particular ethnicity in order to better appeal to foreign audiences... with strictly economic motives in mind, that is.
I believe Ann femme fatale strenght is a great resource to find new skills on fighting for her friends and keep focusing on her model career discipline. Some fans make bad takes about she being a typical bimbo, but she is formidable being sexy and strong to achieve her goals.
I was super excited for this analysis! So glad I got to watch it now! :D This was so wonderful as well, thank you so much for all your hard work you put into these! I have a very dear best friend of mine who's mixed and talks a lot about everything - both funny and complicated - that comes with it. And while she isn't Japanese, and we're both in Canada, I always liked that P5 at least touched on this experience, though for my friend's sake (and for others too of course) I wish they could have gone more into it. Though my best friend and Ann are super different people, I both admire them a lot!! I've always had so much appreciation for Ann, and like it was touched on at the ending... I also wish she got better treatment in game and from developers/the story. Especially coming from a fellow survivor, something about a sexual assault victim like Ann being treated in such a sexualized fan-service-y way always just icked me on such a profound level. Also yes, also agree with the ending scene with Ryuji just felt... so unnatural. I'm super glad it seems to be a common perspective!! And this is a bit of fan interpretation (Fanon? Don't remember the right word) that I love, and that's the fact that you could very easily also read Ann as dealing with compulsory heterosexuality. Which honestly especially resonated with me as a gay man who struggled with it too! I think it's fairly easy, no matter if people headcanon her as either bisexual or a lesbian (I'm partial to no. 2, especially since there's the adorable pun of Lesbi-ann) to see, because of her very strong relationship with Shiho. I've heard from a lot of LGBT+ gal fans/friends that forcing yourself to tolerate either advances from or a relationship of any kind with a man is pretty common when you haven't realized you're not straight, so sometimes your brain can overcompensate and think you have to, forcing yourself to think you need to to be accepted or 'correct'/'right'. And I think that could really be possible for someone like Ann, especially after everything with Kamoshida and add just another level of forcing herself to just tolerate his disgusting harassment. Anyway, regardless Shiho and Ann both deserve so much good in their lives. :') Can't wait for more super amazing analysis!! Thank you so much again for always making these really informative videos!
Imagine people dying their hair just to fit in society... And it's even worse when you can't actually change the futures nor the color of skin to fit in that society... That's extremely sad
Love how that article uses the phrase "had sex with her" and not ya know Raped her! , which is what happened. (This is sarcasm I very much do not love this)
About the rising number, paraphrasing one SVU episode "More cases is a good thing, as usually the victims were to scare to denounce, now they feel their cases will be investigated, and them not shamed"
While I do agree that it could have been done at least a little better for Ann to a certain extent, personally, I've never found those controversial scenes (more specifically the Yusuke model and Ryuji is alive scenes) as insensitive, but for good reasons. 1. The Yusuke Part - while it does follow a cliche, it doesn't do it just for the sake of a cliche, since it was something Ann had to do to accomplish a goal and of course she would be nervous and awkward when doing so considering the context, so it was believable, at least for me. 2. The Ryuji is Alive Part - While I do agree that they punish Ryuji too harshly (even though it made me laugh) and that it was somewhat out of character, it wasn't just out of pure anger. Ryuji, who they thought died, made a rude response after barely surviving stating to them that they don't look pretty when they cry, I mean DUDE! They thought you died! Of course they're crying! But it could be just me being too forgiving to the game. Some of you reading this may actually have great counter-arguments.
Shiho’s mental strength and physical recovery *really* hits home for me as someone who has also had to learn to walk again. I experienced full-body paralysis and was diagnosed with transverse myelitis in late 2015. I relearned how to do daily tasks like dressing myself, eating with utensils, and of course, how to stand and walk again over the following year. I still experience mobility issues and chronic nerve dysfunction/pain, but I’m beyond grateful for my personal Christian faith and, like Shiho, the support of family and friends to help me through it!~
It took me a while to get this video out, so thanks for your patience! 😊
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Wow. I didn’t think that this particular episode of P5 Sociocultural Analysis would affect you so much.
Granted, I haven’t watched this video yet but, I watching it now to see the world in your eyes, somewhat.
Edit: I just watched the video, and I am now enlightened with this new information.
Now when I look back at this game, I now realize that when Ann is mentioned for her looks in the story, it’s not just that she’s a “foreign” beauty, but that she is ostracized just for being a hafu herself.
Thank you for lighting the way.
I wanted to just write this post about how impressive all the effort you put into working to reclaim your life is to read about. It's great to hear you had such supportive family, and friends there for you what must have been extremely difficult times, and I get the impression that despite the hurdles of bad health you have a positive outlook on life, which is always important.
As someone who merely has to deal with 4 limb CRPS 24/7 nerve pains (plus a buncha other assorted health conundrums, including occasional limb glitches) that has lasted now for some over 11 years, hunkering down for the difficult winter months to come (as cold makes my own battles much harder) reading your words about your own challenges was quite inspirational. Thank you for sharing, and I wish you only the best in these difficult times!
Keep the good work ladyVirgilia
Yikes. Didn't know I voted for something so close to home for you...damn.
Don't worry, this experience means a lot to me in many positive ways! I know I wouldn't have learned nearly as much nor would I have been as emotionally tough as I am now due to these experiences.
She’s stated to be part Finnish. I’m a quarter Finnish and my great grandmother’s sides original last name was Ohramaki. Finnish last names can sound Japanese sometimes which I think is a fun fact.
Ohramäki = Barleyhill and Takamäki = Backhill :D
I am finnish!
Interesting thank you :3 are there any other similarities between the two regarding culture/names/words/etc ?
Fun fact, the name Akira is also a Scottish name
She's quarter american but lived in finland or something
I know this is a sensitive issue so please tell me if I'm being insensitive here, but I have a personal speculation as to another reason why a lot of sexual offenses don't get reported in Japan. The "shikata nai" or "it can't be helped" attitude, which is something P5 focuses on in its final dungeon (or penultimate in the case of Royal)
Basically it's the prevailing idea that bad things happen and it's inappropriate to make a fuss about them, you should just accept that they happened and you can't do anything about it, and move on. In general getting emotional is frowned on in Japan and it's seen as a sign of resilience to stay stoic in the face of hardship.
There also seems to be a general attitude that other people's or families' problems are their own and it's wrong to get involved in them, which leads to friends of abuse victims being hesitant to speak out. And the shame culture that was mentioned in a previous video in this series, victims might feel like they and their families will be be associated with this forever if they speak out.
A lot of domestic abuse in Japan apparently goes unreported for a combination of these reasons.
Yes that's a good point! I think shikata ga nai definitely plays a part into victims not coming forward.
It's a mindset my family and community is very familiar with, especially when it comes to the internment of Japanese American citizens during WWII in America. Shikata ga nai *did* play a big role into the perseverance of my grandparents and family friends during that time though. Like most mindsets, there are both drawbacks and benefits to it.
I feel like it is a little unfair to target Japan for that though, because that is a unique cultural trait that goes well beyond sexual offenses. It's an ideological stance that is held by all the people, men and women alike, and in many ways of life, can lead to a person being stronger and not falling into the "victim mentality". Women may shake of sexual abuse and say "it happens" and move on, just as men may shake off a violent attack or unfaithfulness and say "it happens" and move on.
When talking about an entire cultural belief, you can't just focus on how it affects one thing to decide if it's good or bad. You need to take into account the effect it has on the entirety of the culture, and weigh the good points against the bad points.
When speaking on a subject of someone else's culture, I recommend getting the viewpoints of Japanese women and taking those into account, because I've asked them about this. It may seem like a hard way to live to you, but to someone that's grown up with it, it's the preferable way. Many people would rather forgive the bad traits of a person and be forgiven themselves, rather than always feel the pressure to fight against their natural instincts. They see this as a way to focus more on your talents and strengths.
Also, just as a side-note, while people in Japan may be less willing to report sexual assault, that STILL would not explain the MASSIVE difference in case numbers between them and the West. Children are safe to travel unaccompanied across the country to locations without fear. In most Western countries that'd be suicide. Japan is undeniably a safer country to live in. So, maybe we should focus less on what we perceive them to be doing wrong, and focus more on what they are doing right, and how we can emulate their success.
I'm not saying that sexual assault should be tolerated. Please don't think that. Japanese women don't tolerate it either. They just have a broader sense of what constitutes it. Maybe that's not good, but, maybe people are overall happier when they are less critical of another person's flaws. I have a Japanese friend recently who told me that her brother often takes her underwear. I asked her if it bothers her, and she said "Kinda, but he is a guy afterall. His instincts make him horny, but they also make him provide for me and protect me despite how crazy I get. I'm happy with that."
I agree I’d say it isn’t just a Japanese thing though it happens all over it’s why racism still exist
Yes very common, was in japan when a friend told me while in jet a woman was fondled and touched by a group of men and couldent do anything "cant be helped she wants it" is what the bar owner said she was cornered and had to take thr abuse.
@@DavidSantos-ix1hu Trains have women-only cars there for a reason, sadly.
The animators and art designers of this show deserve an award just for their work on Ann's hair. It looks so fluffy!
The situation with Ann during Yusukes story could easily be revolved if Ann had been more in control in the scenario. It doesnt even need to be less comedic to work! Have Ann be the first one to mention the modeling stuff to get Yusuke to calm down. Have the others protest and be worried but Ann remains adamant and even hatches the plan to search the house with Mona while Yusuke is distracted. She says shes got some master scheme and it turns out to be dressing in layers. If you want to add to it: maybe Ann can use her model experience to start askong Yusuke for silly request about the set up and lightning of the room. At first Yusuke complies because he wants her to be comfortable but then the request get more ridiculous in Anns attemps to stall. BUT instead of getting annoyed Yusuke is actually really enthusastic about Anns ideas and starts getting really into making the room more Feng Shui or whatever while explaining his vision to Ann, she might even get swept up in his enthusiasm and actually WANT to start modeling totally forgetting why she even came here in the first place only for Mona to interupt and things go by back to how they did in the game from there. Just an idea.
I love Ann so much, she’s such a sweetheart as well as captivating. I legit got butterflies when romancing her in game because she’s so genuinely kind, passionate, and strong. I love her social link and watching her become more confident and self-assured despite everything she’s gone through.
I kinda wish her confidant focused for her and shiho but u still liked it for what it showed and it made me like her character more idk how people can say they hate her character
Wasn't Kamoshida also inspired by a Judo gold medalist, Masato Uchishiba, that was convicted of the same thing against his female pupils and got his medal revoked?
And the bit about Ryuji getting called out would have worked better had it been in regards to his plan with Shido's VIP. Not when he tried to sacrifice himself to save his allies.
Yes I believe so! That's the figure the Japanese players narrowed down when P5 first released. I've actually been floating the idea of doing a video on the inspirations behind all the Palace Rulers after I'm done with this series.
And so true! That would've been a much more tasteful place to put it if they were gonna go ahead and include a "beat up" scene no matter what!
@@LadyVirgilia So they managed to track down the real world inspirations, huh?
At the very least. They could have shown the noble getting punched just to make up for it.
Then, somewhat ironically, they frame Joker hooking up with his teacher in a decidedly positive light. I get that Kamoshida was more of a villain, but the fact that she lets Joker skip class and stuff because they are hooking up is not a great look
I THOUGHT THAT WAA WEIRD TOO! That's still kinda sketchy!
She may be age appropriate for ME. But not for him!
umm... consent
Diffences is consent. Kamoshida rap* shiho while kawakami was asked to date her.
Kawakami didn't even allow sex in her relationship with joker as well.
The age of consent in Japan now is 16 and when the time the game released, it was 13.
@@Skyler-f7mI'm sorry, but I believe that's still incorrect. The lowered age of consent law for the time only applied either between minors or married individuals (which required guardian consent). Therefore, Joker and Kawakami's relationship would still be nonconsensual, her being his teacher only making it worse. This is even referenced in the game itself during Ohya's Confidant when she has Joker pretend to be her boyfriend.
If I'm wrong about this feel free to correct me.
@@AdriannaDeaver it doesn't matter if it is between 20+ and 16+ or 16+ and 16+
As long as they reach se* consent age, they won't need guardian consent.
Ann is an underrated Confidant. Ann is my role model at overcoming people that trick you.
Also Ann x Ryuji
@@alberthcuayla1587 shuann ryuji and Ann don’t like each other
@@alberthcuayla1587 Ann and Ryuji have like the most bro energy 😂
@@damndan1832 They're perfectly good platonic friends but I seriously doubt either of them could look at the other romantically. During Ann's confidant scenes she even jokingly flirts with him, saying "if you help me train I'll go on a date with you," and Ryuji just goes "dude why are you trying to act like some sexy anime lady?"
@@alberthcuayla1587 noooo, they're besties 😔
I always found that weird about Japan, if you're born in Japan but you're not "Japanese" racially, they still see you as a forigner. Where as in Australia, your race doesn't matter at all.. If you've got an Australian accent, you're "aussie" and there's no questions about it.
I think the whole femme fatale thing is more of about how she’s ok with her appearance and how others perceive her when it’s of her own will and not the will of people who are perverted in her regular life
Tl;dr: she’s ok with it when it’s what she wants to show off
In Mementos Futaba has a line about wanting to fit in to an outfit like Panthers one day. Ann responds that its not like she wants to be dressed like this.
I find it deeply troubling. I cant understand how her inner rebell manifested would be uncomfortable for her. Worse yet her outfit is so pleasing to the male gaze, yet she finds her persona when standing up to Kamoshida. I cant make in-game sense of it. It feels like the people making the game wanted their abuse victim to be eye candy, and it feels so disonant.
and the fact that she has to pretty much immediately be a nude model for yusuke AGAINST HER WILL
I believe she also mentioned part of her idea of a rebel is a female villain from an old show. If the design was similar and stuck with her... her psyche took that up and designed her suit after it... But she's not a fan of being in the actual costume she was just exposed to it
@@firepuppies4086 That makes a fair bit of sense. Thanks.
As much as P Studio tried to do a nice commentary in mysogyny and harrassment, they dropped the ball immediately, Ann becomes used as eye candy for a lot of the game and in promotional art
At the end of the day, most of P5 was written and designed by men, Ann's sexy panther outfit would be absolutely no problem if she took her feminity and allure and was proud of it, used it to empower her but the writing tells the opposite: She's not confident in being portrayed as sexy and she doesn't weaponize her beauty (not ever in a willing way anyways) they could have made her more like Bayonetta, instead they fed into the "anime girl is put on embarrassing sexy situation against her will" trope
@@luizth42 Ann does actually use her beauty and her panther outfit and weaponises them. One of her passive skills is that she can “charm” enemy shadows and effectively stun them for a turn. Granted this only happens of you level up her confidant in which she becomes more confident in herself with the help of Joker in the aftermath of the Kamoshida incident.
Not P5 related, but it now makes sense to me why Haruhi in OHSHC got annoyed at the Lobellia girls for calling Tamaki a "halfer"
I sometimes worry about that "Foreign Barker" guy in Shibuya. If you talk to him a lot, you see he gets a lot of trouble from random passerby who feel bold enough to start fights with him for being a big black dude. Stateside, that guy'd be justified in shoving those salarymen into a trash can, but he has to know that the Japanese cops wouldn't take his side for it. I wish as players we could give that guy a hand.
I just like the running gag that Ann is a bad actress when needling information out of targets but they fall for it anyway. But regarding Ryuji after Shido's palace, I 100% agree with you. The guy heroically risked his life for them and they repaid that by beating him to a pulp? That's not funny. If there ever was criticism for Atlus to take from the West, this should be it. The days of Love Hina girls beating up guys at the slightest excuse are over.
On the other hand... if you notice Ann's random follow-up attack, she might have a talent for playing over-the-top female villains.
In regards to the infamous "Ryuji Beat-Up" scene, speaking as someone who identifies himself as having a bit Ryuji-like streak in him a mile wide, Ryuji's kind of the group punching bag--and not in a bad way. Throughout out the entire game, they're always ragging on him and teasing him, and he does the sort of jock response of not letting it affect him *too much*. There are certain times when he subtly lets them know when they go too far (for example, when Ann was teasing him about how Ryuji borrowed money from her to buy a dolphin back in middle school, the MINUTE he mentions his mother, Ann immediately stops teasing him.) But for the most part, I think he accepts his role and enjoys the slightly competitive camaraderie playful teasing that goes with his friends.
And in a way, Ann's genuine outrage/hurt kinda shows the depth of her feelings she has for Ryuji as well.
The thing is, though, her “playful teasing “crosses the line several times. Friends don’t hit each other, or set you up to be judged or constantly insult you.
That’s not OK.
yeah, it is a complete trope to have the girls beat on him for being too impulsive and insensitive, and I thought it would play better if not for ann's backstory.. I think the animation could have made this a bit more comedic too, like a slap on the back, but she really gives him a proper right hook, which is too much, and just not in Ann's character. The reality is that while the game is tackling some powerful subjects it also wants to fit snuggly into the anime cliches, and this video says, it can be jarring at times. The video didn't even touch upon the lecherous behaviour that Ann faces from her own teammates. Especially Ryuji and Morgana. It's fan service, and would be fine if she weren't an actual victim of sexual harassment.. I love persona 5, its one of my favourite games, but they dropped the ball a bit here
Another excellent video Lady, great job!
While I'm still a bit iffy on Ann's confidant, I definitely appreciate it a bit more after hearing your breakdown of her struggles to improve herself.
I'm also in agreement over the two joke scenes. While I don't think there was too much of an issue with the Ann stripping joke, I do think it was a mistep to not have her take the initiative to do it herself rather than having Joker and Ryuji egg her on to do it.
I could see a reversal joke being better for that scene where Joker and Ryuji start thinking of other ways to infiltrate the cottage, then Ann remembers Yusuke's request and sparks the conversation with that. Ryuji would get flustered and remind her of what she just went through with Kamoshida and she brushes it off, saying something like "I don't think Yusuke is anything like Kamoshida, but if he does try anything funny then a swift kick is coming his way." Or perhaps she hints at her later shenanigans with the fifty something layers of clothes by saying she's got some backup supplies for such an occasion.
The Ryuji getting beat up after saving everyone joke was definitely a low point for the game. It gave me Persona 4 flashbacks with the girls constantly making assumptions and attacking the guys for no reason. Honestly, I'd just erase the joke entirely and have it be an actual moment for the Phantom Thieves to realize Ryuji's alive and hugging him with tears of joy.
honestly ryuji gets the shaft quite a bit yusuke has a very iffy intro with the nude modeling but then its never brought up except as a joke but ryuji is constantly put down by the other pts it kinda blows hell even in his own confidant you let him get beat up
Have you tried Strikers yet? Anne also shines in this when she finds a kindred spirit of her past problems.
I have to whole-heartedly agree with you about the 'beat up Ryuji' scene. My reaction was like...Why are you beating him up? If someone came back from the dead like that, I'd be hugging them, just glad they were okay. So what if he made a joke, it's how he is! He was probably just trying to lighten the mood, and then they just LEFT HIM THERE, ugh. I really did not like that scene at all.
Me too. I hate that part. It’s just like they saying it’s fine if females act violent on men. Also, I don’t think he make a joke. He literally thought he died as well, right?
I also kinda hate the part where MC didn’t help Ryuji getting hit on by the two homo dudes. He getting harassed so why just leave him? That’s not what friends should do
@@Poisonlover323 Apparently, the original version of that sence had all the Phantom Thieves beat up Ryuji, not just the girls.
i'd be getting that mf directly to a bed. that man needs REST
I saw those scenes as Ann "weaponising" her sex appeal rather than them making a joke out of her issues. For those moments, Ann is in control of the whole situation rather than being exploited and manipulated like with Kamoshida. She's essentially owning her beauty and using it to get what she needs, essentially a role reversal, which further demonstrates how she no longer has any grievances over her appearance and is more accepting of it thanks to Shiho and later the rest of the Phantom Thieves. It also ties into how her Phantom Thief attire is based on a dominatrix in addition to some her confidant skills like the "sexy technique" With the moments involving Yusuke and the noble, the comedy more came from Ann's terrible acting and that it somehow works but she is still ultimately able to trick them for her and the other's benefit. So I personally never thought of those scenes as being "insensitive" but rather trying to further showcase her character growth.
I only saw that personally in Shido’s place, any other scene where Ann used her sex appeal, it was under someone forcing/pressuring her to do it (Ryuji, Yusuke and MC). Tho I do see where u are coming from.
@@TheOwlet22 While she was being pressured, which I more viewed as the Thieves having no other option to get what they need, in the moment itself she's still displayed as being the more dominant one in the scenario
It’s a slippery slope, but saw those scenes in much the same way. Taking back her beauty and assuming the femme fetal role within the Phantom Thieves.
These just clash with her sensibilities as a teenage girl with premature sensibilities, reflected in her All-Out Attack screen’s esthetic and her preferred food is usually sweets. So the transition from fun loving somewhat air headed girl to sexy confident and in control woman, wasn’t going to be be smooth one (especially with that acting).
That’s just my take since there is still debate over whether execution of these ideas hit the mark. However, I just don’t like viewing Ann as victim when these instances occur, since she has shown to not loose control over herself and her situation.
(At least in the context of the story, I know there can be dissonance with Atlas and their games when it comes to these things).
That's honestly a big aspect of Ann's character that I love. Most characters after sexual abuse are guarded about looks and beauty and their body, but Ann isn't going to let Kamoshida win and destroy the value of the one thing that's hers: her body. She's moving forward instead of standing still and that is strength.
@@TheOwlet22
I feel like people tend to forget that
A: She didn't actually strip nude.
B: Yusuke is not romantically interested in her.
C: Ryuji and MC stated that they would have her back if things go haywire.
This is coming from a guy who thinks the beginning of Madarame arc was off-putting.
You’re videos are incredibly valuable and informative. Ann’s story touched deeply. I do find it (and all of the P5 stories and themes and politics) to be quite universal, that is if you’re as observant of humanity as I try to be, but if course, having the specific context of Japan is invaluable to the richest understanding. I had some senses of the Japanese context via just being an anime nerd and etc. but your videos provide so much more. Thank you.
- Unfortunately, these social issues aren’t much different or more prominent in Japan than they are anywhere else. This includes the idea that sexual assault “can’t be helped”, and a hostility to foreigners. Careful not to fall into the trap of pretending any given foreign culture is uniquely backwards, as that’s it’s own brand of racism (Side note, fan service of teens in media for teens, like Persona, is generally acceptable). And NO, Japan does not have a pedophile culture, before anybody says anything.
The entrance of Blue Destination when you started talking about Ann's resilience was just so epic.
Your well researched and educated analysis is just a dream come true.
Awesome video. Reconciling the MESSAGE that P5 wants to state vs the jokes etc is probably the only real issue I have with the game.
Thank you, catching up on your content is saving me right now ✌🏼
Greetings from the Netherlands
I find it mind-boggling that this series doesn't have more views. Hearing about Persona 5's themes from a Japanese lens is a downright eye-opening, and gives me a deeper appreciation of the game.
Ann is underrated imo, it's nice to see that a hot girl character who's not a bimbo. She's passionate and good with people. Her character really shines
This was a amazing video
Ann is actually such a beautiful and great character and actually the main reason I don’t feel ashamed being the only different or odd one in the room.
Lady Ann, the first lady of the P5 story.
as a finn I always saw ann as mostly finnish.
reason 1: Her name in the japanese versions of the persona games she appears in is anne, which is a super common name in finland and her surmane takamaki can be turned into takamäki by introducing the letter ä into the name. the surname takamäki means back hill in finnish and is infact a surname.
now we have a finnish name for her, anne takamäki (some finnish women actually have that name).
reason 2:
she has lived in finland for some time (we don't know how long, but this confirmed that she even has ties to finland).
reason 3:
this is kinda dumb reason, but she is a blue eyed blond and finland has the most blue eyed blonds in the world (she looks like my sister💀)
reason 4:
she doesn't really have any japanese features that would connect her to being japanese
final reason:
making her american is one of the laziest moves you can make when making a foreign white character. persona 2 already had a blue eyed blond girl who was american. americans in general have so much representation in media, so it would be nice to give other nationalities some attention.
she’s 25% american- likely of finnish descent. such is stated in game
I played p5r in japanese her name is spelled Ann. Only names changed from japanese to english were the gay couple. Angelus and Julien
@@TheRiskyforever Ann looks 75% Finnish and 25% American!
I could not tell if she has Japanese features, specially because of the anime style!
@@RheaMainz She’s japanese lmao. Her name is japanese, regardless if changing it can make it something else.
@@TheRiskyforever You can name a 100% Finnish person a Japanese name, but that would not make them any % Japanese!
I always like how Ann finds strength in the villainesses and how that’s reflected in her costume seemingly being a reference to Catwoman. I do wish the cleavage window was a little smaller, just because she is one move away from a costume malfunction.
Her finding strength from the two key ladies in her confidant is really nice. Joker is great, but he can’t 100% provide the support she needs as a girl, a victim, and a model. Her growth has to stem from herself in the end. I like that.
I also like that Ann is still okay with being looked at, so long as it’s on her terms. The scene with Ryuji at the beach was a breath of fresh air, just letting her goof with her friend in a context where she’s okay with being attractive. She really should’ve hugged him after he nearly died. Hugs > punches.
The Yusuke scene could’ve been better if Ann was the one who made the offer rather than the boys. It would’ve been a step in the direction of her taking control of her femininity. She could’ve shown off her wits too through the many many layers of clothing because that part was hilarious. I would’ve also liked a discussion with Yusuke about what’s appropriate to ask someone who wasn’t raised among artists and only artists. That’s even assuming the nude modeling subplot needed to happen. She could’ve just modeled!
Ann is my favorite Persona 5 character and I’m glad you gave her some justice. In spite of some flaws here and there, I still think she’s a well-written and enjoyable character that is frankly quite underrated. I don’t think the Yusuke and Shido palace scenes were THAT insensitive, and the comedy mostly came from Ann’s terrible acting rather than the situation itself, although I do see why someone like you Lady wouldn’t be so fond of those moments. I’d say a good example of Ann shining as a character is when she teases Ryuji for perving at her on the beach. It’s a small moment that speaks volumes to me as it helped elevate her character IMO.
Lady is very cultured. She's finally done a video on the wonderful Ann. I haven't click on a video so fast lately xD.
Ann is the reason why I got into Persona. Saw some dude playing the game in a YT video and instantly got hooked on the game. 3 years later, this is probably my all-time favourite game now. Although I adore her character, her story in the game kinda gets pushed aside after that Kamoshido episode. We saw a lot of her character and her struggle to cope with not only a sexually abusive teacher but also her suicidal friend, Shiho. That's what I like about Ann, her kind personality and that with Erika Harlacher's voicing acting was a brilliant match. People who know me in the community know I am I a huge Ann fan, but my next comment might surprise some people.
Overall, I did not feel much resolve in her during her bonding events. There were some nice scenes and a decent final bonding event, but I was expecting more back story as we saw in the Kamoshida episode. I feel that the sociocultural elements you discussed in the video should have been explored more in her character and I would have loved to have seen more lore about her parents and her Western heritage. But what I do like the most is how the game expressed her personality through Carmen and Hecate. She shares similar elements of beauty with Carmen and Hecate (a mythological entity) who is seen as a protector figure (e.g. Ann trying to protect her friend Shiho from being abused by Kamoshida). I thought that was a really good representation of her character.
Anyhow, sorry for the long message, but this sums up the reason why I really adore Ann, not just for her waifu assets as everyone seems to think. Just kidding :). Brilliant video, Lady.
Yooo awesome to hear it! Thank you Ann and Erika Harlacher for luring DP to the Persona crowd haha!
I like how Ann's confidant focuses on modeling since it's generally associated with women and female empowerment, but otherwise I agree it would've been nice to see more of how Ann and people like her are treated in the main story. It's both a blessing and a curse that Persona 5 is so bombastic with its ideas. Each sociocultural issue and character only gets a single arc before we're moving on to the next palace.
I will get to doing videos on the main cast's personas after this series is over. Nice to hear some of your thoughts on them though!
And nahhh don't ever apologize for the long, thoughtful message!~
I'm kind of in the same boat, I feel like not just Ann, but a lot of P5's cast drop off in focus after their arc. Haru gets accusations of this the most, but Ann and Yusuke also go through this. I feel like P4 was better at keeping the party members relevant after their arcs were over, but it also had the opposite issue: some of the party members had initial arcs that had very little story relevance (Kanji and Rise, my two favourite characters, I fully admit could have their dungeons removed and not much of the story would change. I love their dungeons for covering some very relevant Japanese social issues, but I'm talking about the over-arching mystery plot.)
I think P3 did the best job of both integrating its cast into the plot AND developing them, but it had the issue that most of its cast were designed to give off very bad early impressions (Mitsuru, Yukari, Ken, even Akihiko kinda) and take a LONG time to fully develop, which led to the fans outright hating some of them.
tldr, every party from P3 to P5 has completely different strengths and weaknesses for me, which might stem from how different the three games are thematically.
This was an excellent video! I especially appreciated that you highlighted the weird part where Ann was gonna do the nude painting as completely out of touch after we just spent the first 20 hours of the game battling the sexist harassment she's faced from Kamoshida. It's crazy how fast they turned her undressing into the story and write it off as "lol anime trope xDDDDDD"
As a guy who's half white and half Chinese living in America. I've really connected with Ann in the story feeling out of place and that people are always judging you. I've always felt like I stick out as much as Ann, but treat you like Ryuji when your an asian guy living in America
Yeah I also felt it was weird
It feels like they had two ideas for story beats that they loved but couldn’t put a good and coherent line there to connect them.
Similar thing with Yusuke.
He is clearly meant to be seen as a creep when he gets first introduced and then later it becomes clear that if anyone asks you to pose nude for purely artistic purposes it would be this guy, but they’ve made him a bit too creepy before he joins the team.
I feel like both of these problems could have been better, if Mamoshida told Yusuke to draw Ann in the nude. Something like this
The whole conflict started when Mamoshida and Ann’s modeling company decided on a cross promotion of their young talent and wanted Yusuke to draw Ann in general, only for Mamoshida to decide this must become a nude picture and him pressuring Yusuke into drawing her as such. Since Yusuke would still be completely enamored and blinded by his mentors awfulness, he starts to become more forceful with his insistence.
Then the moment the illusion breaks for Yusuke, he apologizes to Ann and explains how he felt pressured to preform.
I came to this channel for 1 hour analysis of my favorite pancake boi and stayed for one of the best content on Persona series on whole YT.
All those analysis are a great reminders that games can be culturally impacted works of art as much as they can be just a time consuming fun activity.
But coming back on topic of Ann - I am very happy to hear more people talk about that clash of Ann's portrayal between Kamoshida and Madarame arcs. I remember Extra Credits mentioning that in their "Perversion Subversionteachthematically improper for a quick joke. They did so in P4 as well, but in P4 is not as thematically clashing.
Just like Lady mentioned in video - situations like when Ryuji was treated awfully after he almost lost his life trying to save his team were where I could not understood why writers thought that was appropriate way to lessen the tension in that scene. One of those tropes used in P5 and that I hate was the "Yusuke is such a weird pervert" joke. Like, Yusuke is eccentric and quirky - that was his whole appeal but also one of the main reasons why he had problems with finding his own place in world. I was always bothered how it was never really addressed later that Yusuke should not blackmail Ann to strip, so instead they made a joke out of it. While playing P5D when doing a combo you can sometime hear Yusuke's excitement and his cheering and there is a possibility that other character will call him a weird pervert for it. Those jokes feel appropriate for a group of teenagers who did not suffered through many hardships together. They are way too hurtful for no reason in my opinion.
What bugs me as well was the fact that MC could date Kawakami while they never mention how Kawakami was basically blackmailed to basically start her confidant. Again, we did payed her a lot for those services (she's never threatened to do things for free at least, those need to be unlocked by helping her) and in the end MC helped her through the change of heart of the her dead student's relatives. But again, I feel like the power dynamic here was showed as a joke "haha isn't the fact that women that has usually higher status than me is now my maid" feel weird.
I might just be salty because I never got to date any of the Boys in the game and the fact that the game will let you indulge in unhealthier, but straight relationships leave bad taste in my mouth. a
Also sorry if my lil essay was hard to follow at any point - I have many feelings when it comes to Persona games and not being the English native speaker does not help at all while trying to collect all of your thoughts. ^^"
i agree with you on all points. I noticed all those things when I played the game and it really makes me worry about future Persona games if the same writters who are never confronted about those issues continue to 'serve the fans' what they think they want.
This was really well written and I agree w everything p much
I absolutely agree with all of this. Persona 5's blind spots feel glaring given how much effort they put into seeing uncomfortable truths in so many other aspects of the setting. Honestly quite a few of Joker's "romances" feel totally out of place and put in as fan service at the expense of the story and characters, including Ann's. She has a very touching scene with Shiho which feels pretty intimate if not romantic, including Shiho saying "I love you," and then immediately after while Ann's crying and saying "I'm alone now" you can have Joker shock her by hugging her and confessing, which she excepts but looks super unhappy about??? It's so weird! I don't know if they were trying to tap into some straight guy fantasy that I just can't comprehend or what but I found it very uncomfortable to watch
@@Jetsetlemming a lot of jokers romances were just a little bit strange, maybe it's cause joker never talks i don't know. They feel so... forced i guess, the scenes are a bit uncomfortable to watch for me.
Side note: For the males (except Morgana), I wonder who Lady will tackle next?
Ryuji or Yusuke? For me, I hope it’s Ryuji.
Time to see what the community decides!
@Kira Diaz
Speaking of, my guess for sociocultural issue for Ryuji is either the delinquent archetype or domestic violence and its effects.
But I dunno bout Yusuke.
Edit: I didn’t know about “Yankii” until now.
Amazing video as always, and you definitely made me appreciate her confidant more, though yes I definitely agree that the way they executed the femme fetal trope came off as insensitive. I think a way for P5 to have improved on it is by giving more attention to the fact that Ann is claiming her body for her own rather than letting it define her, maybe making her more assertive in making herself comfortable with her body as the story progresses. She can show this by doing what she did in Shido's Palace but much more frequent while doing it with maturity instead of using it for comedy purposes or fan service.
Then again though I might be wrong since Im not a good writer myself but that's my two scents on it dhdbdhdb ;u;
Ahhh I'm glad to hear I could paint Ann's confidant in a better light~
I like your idea. It would've been nice to see Ann growing more confident in using her feminine charms (like a nicer Mika lol) over the entire course of the main story instead of just in the final palace.
@@LadyVirgilia Yup, also this goes for everyone too and it's that All the Phantom Thieves are based on Heist Group Character type tropes, the problem is most of their roles are under utilised in the story such as (of course) Ann, Yusuke, Haru, and a bit with Ryuji. I wish in each palace, everyone who was in the team could have served a purpose in a puzzle/story in some way. Like use Yusuke's Art abilities to forge a document or something, instead of just using it for the calling cards, or how bout use Haru's money to serve something in the narrative (which I think was confusing why they never brought up that Haru is filthy rich, and could perhaps have helped with at least a few of things they're doin). At the same time though I will give them props for doing great job utilizing MC, Morgana, Makoto, and Futaba (even tho she and Makoto got over used in my opinion).
Real people don’t fit cleanly into tropes. The way Ann was written felt more... real.
I do want to make mention about the idea of the idea of Ann as the foreigner in her own country. Sadly the US isn't much better in this regard. I was born in the US and when I was very young, my dad's job took him overseas where we lived till I was about 10 years old and he came back to the states. When I started back to school here, I would get beat up and bullied under the assumption that I was an immigrant and was told to go back to where I came from. The irony there wasn't lost on me since I just HAD come back to my own country.
It could have been much worse since I'm white. But it is something I can relate to Ann about since there is that slight connection of being treated like an outsider within what should be your own country.
The irony here is that the only way Ann could even have light blonde hair and bright blue eyes is if her Japanese parent had also several such foreigners in their lineage as the genes for blonde hair and blue eyes are recessive and close to always disappear in a caucasian-east asian pairing.
She's quarter American, so not even a hafu. Hafu's usually have brown hair and brown eyes, even when one of the parents has like no melanin.
@@LittleSparklingStars That makes blonde hair and blue eyes even less likely .
@@shiroamakusa8075 actually no eye color isn't a Mendelian genetic trait neither is hair color. eye color has 3 genes that controls it which can have random cross over mutations hair color is linked to at least 5 genes currently it just takes a single ancestor to have the mutation of blonde hair for it to occur without a double recessive from both parents due to cross over mutations. It's the same reason red hair is found in non Caucasian races even without the person being mixed. High schools just use hair and eye color as lazy examples when we've known since ~2006 that you just need one your hominid ancestors to have a hair or eye color mutation for it to randomly occur during cross over
I disagree about Ann's characterization as "insensitive and tonally dissonant." Viewed from the lens of a "girl who was a victim" becoming a "woman with a strong sense of justice", so to speak, she's learning to weaponize her femininity in a way to catch would-be aggressors and abusers off their guard before she flips the switch and takes them down in a very strong, capable, and self-reliant way. In a way, it's almost like she's saying "Yeah, I'm a female. Yeah, I look sexy. So what? If the only thing you think about when you see me is how good I look, then you know nothing about me." And I *really* appreciate that, actually.
"Weaponizing her femininity" is kind of the idea with her persona.
hm it rather comes across as what a man imagines ''taking strength in ur feminity'' looks like
@@MB-tj7xhI totally agree with you. Ann weaponising her femininity is absolutely fine, but I think the way the game frames it after the Kamoshida arc is definitely meant to appeal to a male audience (especially cause there’s a LOT of focus on her body), rather than her using her femininity to take control of the situations. It kind of turns her back into the victim in these situations since she doesn’t go into them willingly, like the whole thing with Yusuke at the beginning of the Madarame arc
@@A_keo seriously that painting scene is unforgivable writing and Atlus should be fucking ashamed of themselves because "She has to get naked but she doesn't want to" isn't the laughing riot they thought it was
I think its more like shes the games fujiko mine and unlike fujiko weaponizing her sexuality was more awkward. The gag just stands out due to its proxinity to all that real drama.
From a bit more charitable point Ann's use of seduction could also be viewed as a form of rebellion in itself for her story going from being treated like an object to being the subject and taking it back from those who just used or mocked her.
This was such an amazing character analysis. I’m currently working on my first fic for P5 and have been wanting some quality deep dives so I can write the characters better. I’m so glad I found this, and I hope you’ll do the other PTs.
Edit: Ah, so you have done the others. I got my binge for today!
As seeing myself as somewhat of an outsider or black sheep I certainly can relate to the idea of Ann's character situation of sticking out but wanting to blend in (not anymore for me) the fact she eventually sticks to what she believes and cares about while going through a lot of bad stuff shows strength despite how much she questions her own strength (real modesty there). On the topic of the social dynamics in Japan its kinda sad to see the idea of conforming to the mass being one of acceptance since to me an important pro and con of humans being our individuality so just simply following the trend in my mind is always a no go, stick to your own convictions and develop your own opinions. If your opinion matches others and you end up being accepted that's good and fine but don't compromise your beliefs and opinions for the masses. Evidently though in the case of Japan a relatively sheltered culture it may never really end up being the case that truly 'unique' individuals will always be bullied and told to conform to the masses (certainly not a Japan only problem my own experience through schooling comes to mind) the real important point to me though is that anyone in this situation of being an outcast is the ability to hold strong despite how bad it might get and if needed find someone willing to help. Just thought id add my few thoughts to the topic.
I really hate her outfit. I still cannot believe they took the sexual assault victim and put her in fetish wear that she actively hates and feels objectified in. Her character arch was kneecapped at every turn in the name of fanservice. Even her persona summon has some weird sexual stuff in it which takes away from her amazing moment of deciding to stand up to her abuser.
@@Snapdragon0112 This comment needs to be higher up. I feel the same about her fetishization, totally out of place and frankly annoying. Everybody has cool multiverse outfit, but she has bdsm skin suit.. Omg why, so lame.
I might get hate for this but a part of Ann's character that isn't talked about is owning her body and sexuality. You mentioned it with the Femme Fatale part, but I see it as her owning her physical form and rebelling against society by having 100% control of how she is seen. In her main Arc, she is seen as slutty and an object DESPITE being quite chaste and unassuming in reality. In the metaverse, she is flipping the narrative by dressing in all red, showing cleavage and high boots, but actively whipping the impure thoughts out of everything to the point where her body has become a weapon. I always think, "why is she in a red tight suit when everyone else is super stealthy?" It is because she is hiding in plain sight. She lures predators in with bright red, with her body, with her looks, and then lashes out (literally) severely punishing them for underestimating her power and authority as a force to be reckoned with. Her own body is for her to enjoy, her presence and power for her to be used by her, and she'll never let anyone take control of her narrative again. The fact that she uses sex appeal as this lure only emphasizes her inability to blend in with the crowd. If you gotta stand out, stand out so much that you can't possibly be ignored. Shoot straight to the top in a field with no competition.
This may or may not have been a connection to the Miss Japan being mixed Race as well. The common Japanese person wrote her off because of her race, but she still won. I'm sure she faced extreme adversity, but she still friggin won, and that's how I feel about Ann.
I had the exact same interpretation. I felt that Ann' initial rejection of her outfit was a hint to the fact that there was a dissonance between how she "wants" to rebel and how she "should" rebel. Their outfits aren't like the Matrix where they can choose; they're selected from their subconscious. Since she doesn't mention it again, yet quickly adjusts - my interpretation is that she realized that weaponizing her alluring qualities would not only use her "best features" but also lure in the exact type of people she'd most want to rebel against.
Considering how fast she submits to the nude painting plan, I interpreted it as her realizing that the gang needs that from her, and that she accepted it because she's actually happy to do it, but can't outright say it. I simply don't see Ann as someone sticking around if she was uncomfortable with doing these things: Even without her confidant events, she's confident enough to just walk away.
I might be reaching with my interpretation, but if we had an event verify Ann' intentions to be as I described, she'd be seen in a much more sexualized light than she currently is.
@nivyan i love this! As I'm writing , I'm having this thought:
That's what models do, that's who models are. Anyone who sees a model as just a sexy body or a pretty face is themselves shallow and judgemental. Ann is a model, she stands for something. I do think she may be too young to realize the true power she has in the real world, just by virtue of being herself and being unashamed of her body, she definitely comes to realize that power in the metaverse.
The nude painting scene just brings it all full circle for Ann. Every aspect of her character, from her mixed race, natural blonde hair, outgoing personality, etc, she was made to stand out. Some people were born to be seen, and Ann is a character that knows what to do with that power
@@squidnipendleton3765 Totally agree. I personally love that depiction, because it's respectful without being sexual - which can be a really hard line to balance.
I feel that the reveal of her many layers of clothes is both hilarious and Ann' first attempt at weaponizing her body. We don't see the aftermath, but considering Yusuke and Ann' close relationship throughout the game - it's seems clear that she performed excellent while still having respect for Yusuke. That's an amazing shift in perspective and, to me, speaks to strengths that she doesn't realize she has until her confidant events.
amazing job :O and omg such a good voice for narration ^^/
Ryuji 100% did not deserve to get beat up after saving everyones ass, I know its a cliche gag in anime but it pisses me off so much best boy gets his ass beat for no reason other than he's meant to be the 'comidic releif' character. Thye should have hugged him not punched him!
Tbh I think the "beat up ryuji" scene would be fine if it just ended with something more positive, like them crying and hugging him after. I enjoy the "you dummy, we were worried about you" into a hit or two, but he didn't deserve whatever happened offscreen and then getting left in the dirt
I found this very interesting despite not being a persona player or fan; well done.
I know this video is 2 years old, and you will probably not see this message, but have you checked out Persona 2 as there is a character like this in the game Lisa, who is 100% white by her parents but was born and raised in Japen.
Her parents want to raise her as a typical Japanese girl, and to become a proper Japanese bride to such a degree, they refuse to teach her English or anything else about her family culture.
She then has to deal with the fact that because she is white, everyone else treats her like a foreign, so she doesn't really fit in anywhere.
Wow - this is incredibly well done. Interesting, subtle, and clearly communicated. Added layers to this game that were invisible to me otherwise. A subtle reading takes a subtle reader, apparently. Thanks for sharing.
14:48 prior to hearing the number including private schools I thought "Please don't be double" then my jaw dropped.
the Yamato race thing reminds me of a certain Austrian painter
🤣
It’s also kinda funny when you realize the history between Japan and Germany
Awesome analysis!
Have a whole new appreciation for Ann and her confidant now. Great video.
I recently got into these retrospective type videos and Persona is such a good place for them
The united states is MUCH more diverse then 23% racial minorities. The 76% "white alone" category also counts Hispanics/Latinos. The bottom "white alone not Hispanic or Latino" is better measurement to go off of. This would make the united states around 40% racial minorities if you take into account Hispanics and Latinos.
23:45 Ann's appreciation of those qualities within and despite adversity are even reflected in the meaning of her Arcana: while The Lovers is commonly thought of as symbolic of one's love life, it also represents the overcoming of trials.
The interesting thing about that is while this is correct in Japanese the interpretation of the Lovers Arcana is more direct. In the first two or three Persona games it’s referred to as the 恋人 (koibito) arcana meaning actual lovers and then later on as the 恋愛 (ren’ai) arcana which means passionate or true love. It’s why I’ve always paired the MC with the Lovers as the canonical pairing in my playthroughs.
@@AnthonyKagegariVT I actually ended up w/ Ann completely by accident on my Third Semester playthrough
amazing job again lady ! i can't wait to see the next analysis
I know I'm late to the party, but I just finished playing through P5R. I have enjoyed your analysis of all the characters through the lens of Japanese socio-cultural constructs. I've learned a lot about Japanese culture, and this has shed additional light on some of my favorite characters. None more so than Ann. Until watching this video I always felt her confidant story was a huge letdown. I wanted her to do more than be determined to be as good at modeling as the awful, scheming Mika-chan. You've helped me see her determination to succeed within her chosen sphere of modeling is evidence of Ann's growth and maturity. I had never looked at her story in quite this way. In all your videos, you've never looked at any of the romantic narratives. I'm interested to know what the dating and relationship possibilities look like when seen through the lens of Japanese culture. Would you consider doing a video that looks at whether or not Joker would realistically date one of his fellow PTs and how that would play out? Maybe then you could look at some of the less likely romantic relationships, such as his option to date Takemi or Kawakami? Thanks!
really interesting video, never would have known about this had it not been for this video. great analysis
This video made me learn more about hafus. I knew they received harassment but I never knew it was that bad.
- Unfortunately, these social issues aren’t much different or more prominent in Japan than they are anywhere else. This includes the idea that sexual assault “can’t be helped”, and a hostility to foreigners. Careful not to fall into the trap of pretending any given foreign culture is uniquely backwards, as that’s it’s own brand of racism (Side note, fan service of teens in media for teens, like Persona, is generally acceptable). And NO, Japan does not have a pedophile culture, before anybody says anything.
Great video on my favorite girl in all of video games! I didn't think this video existed until I saw it in my recommendations. I learned a lot of new things while reaffirming my love of Ann. Ann's story is a really great example of character growth. Her personality and kindness are attributes that really stick out for me whenever she's on screen. And understanding where true strength lies really solidified my love for her. Once again, I really enjoyed this video!
And on the Ryuji beat up scene:
I know a lot of controversy comes from that scene but I personally find it very comedic. The girls were distraught at the idea of him dying, only for him to reappear unharmed. It's the common troupe that I've seen many times but never really gets old when executed properly. In my opinion, it shows how much they care about him.
Common trope or not, it still feels very out of character for all the girls to beat up one of their closest friends, who has a history of abuse, and just almost sacrificed themself to save them.
Bit of a hot take, but I like to think Ann is like another sister to Joker; I just can't imagine the two of them together romantically, but their bond is stronger than just friends.
Daym! I had no idea this was a thing in Japan. I sure does put a new perspective on Ann for someone who doesn't know about those situations.
I just want you to know how grateful I am for these videos! It makes me even more emotionally connected to these characters who I love so much! Your Akechi video made me cry and this video made me think deeply about the racism that occurs all across the world, not just in America. Please don’t stop doing what you do!
I’ve heard that it was her father who’s half-American but I could be wrong.
Like to point out either Mika became upset when Ann wasn't taking modeling seriously or Ann pissed her off so much Mika's mask fell off
while I love this portion of her character arc. I feel like a different part of all this is completely skipped over. Like others have mentioned in the comments, her outfit is just some over-sexualized latex suit that she hates, while her entire story is about being more than just her looks. Her abilities from her confidant continue with this, by giving you sexy pose and crocodile tears to weaponize her looks, something she clearly doesn't want to do. Finally there are random moments throughout the various scenes in game where she reverts to being a "stupid blonde" instead of the ambitious, empathetic, hard working girl this story is about.
Basically, Ann is supposed to be a hard working girl with ambition who is mistaken for a ditzy blonde because of her looks, but half the time she just is that ditzy blonde anyway.
Well real people are full of contradictions too, I think she appears more realistic because of it. You can hate being sexualized and a moment later you are fine with it, using it as a weapon, it doesn't have to be one thing or the other. I think it makes her more real. You can fit in a stereotype one moment and the next moment you seem to be a whole other person, it's really more real this way
I really enjoy all of the research that you put into these vids, thanks for making them!
The anime community in particular really needs to be more educated on these issues, and doing it through tangential learning is really inspired.
Looking forward to more of your content!
Very awesome video. The characterisation within the game and the layered plot is seriously great. Never played teh games myself but I enjoy stuff like this. Will get it on PC. Thanks.
With ann and the femme fatale stuff, i think they could have done something really interesting with ann regarding reclaiming her own sexuality and body after what shes been through. and you see hints of this. but i think they needed to be a lot more deliberate about it, and also the various times the male characters sexually harass the female ones just ruins the whole thing
Ann is an underrated ass character.
I enjoyed this breakdown
1:14 It would be funny to throw in that meme of Double D from Ed Edd n Eddy saying, "In Japan" when you brought up Persona takes place around Japanese society issues.
Fascinating perspective! As someone who just played and beat Persona 5 Royal for the first time on Switch, I found myself baffled more often than not by the choices the writers made for Ann after Kamoshida’s palace. I at least would not think that a character who was the target of sexual harassment or perhaps even abuse would then turn around and make it her mission to become a fashion model. That seems to fly in the face of the idea that all Ann is good for is her looks. The fact that Ann decides to pursue modeling as a vehicle for forming a stronger relationship with her parents is something that I feel was a blink-and-you’ll-miss-it factor for me, though, so I am glad you highlighted that here…although it did strike me as odd throughout the game how little we see of *any* of the Phantom Thieves’ parents.
Ann’s arc makes more sense to me now with your analysis. I still find the choices made with Ann to be weird, but at least now I have better context that explains probably why the writers chose the direction they chose for her.
I'm not 100% on Ann being a hafu. But that's probably because I've never liked how the Japanese seem to think hafu=full blown white when it comes to drawing them and because I like the theory that Takamaki is actually a Japanification of a Finnish last name.
There’s no wrong way to be mixed-race.
If she was Finnish it’d have been mentioned on her profile.
She's 1/4 "American", right? American being more a culture than ethnicity these days, she's probably of Finnish descent while having an American grandparent.
Agreed! Also, I know it’s an anime game but only being a quarter white wouldn’t give her blond hair and blue eyes. That’s not how genetics work?? Blond hair and blue eyes are recessive traits, that would get drowned out by any darker traits in the genes.
Ann being a quarter Japanese or just full white would’ve worked better for her character design, but oh well :/
I just assumed the white side of Ann’s family is her mother’s side.
Honestly surprised they didn’t go more in depth about how ann was a foreigner. Japan still has alot of racism issues and i think it would have gona really well with her character arc
Great job! It is impressive that the game lands so well still in other countries despite most people probably missing 90% of the sociocultural critiques. I appreciate the additional context these provide though.
I'm a half-White and half-Vietnamese American. The racism towards Amerasians in Vietnam post-war and to this day is a massive issue. And we can certainly still feel a little out of place in the US with white crowds.
Anyways, I think the beating up on Ryuji does just kinda fall into the genre trope category. There is an element of suspended disbelief for any of these sorts of anime tropes.
You could maybe argue that some of these these moves that play on Ann's modeling/sexuality are a way of her reclaiming her own sexuality/agency. That would be a stretch for the Yusuke situation, but could maybe be said for the moves later.
Side note: Ann probably doesn't have to work that hard on the nutrition/exercise part of modeling given the intensive exercise she would be getting as a phantom thief. I get the point they are making, but that level of combat and running around, etc would definitely leave her very fit. She would probably be burning enough calories to partake in some unhealthy food. I'm a distance runner that runs 50-60+ miles a week and can certainly afford to eat some unhealthy food while maintaining weight, abs, etc. And I think the phantom thieves would be getting more/tougher exercise.
Thank you for sharing a bit of your personal experience as an Amerasian. Though this is not of the exact same context (in regards to the wars...) I have cousins who are half-White and half-Japanese.
And I've had that feeling at times, so I getcha haha.
I can see an argument for Ann reclaiming her sexuality. Her confidant feels like a huge female empowerment thing in general, what with the focus on Shiho and Mika as inspirations, and the emphasis on modeling, a career field that's more associated with women. I just find the execution lacking unfortunately, since there's no exploration of getting over the Kamoshida incident/ a growing confidence peppered throughout the main story.
I can sorta see what you mean when it comes to the PT's exercise. At the same time though, being in good shape isn't quite the same as targeted conditioning and/or toning of particular muscle groups. I'm under the assumption that models would have to focus on toning triceps (those tank tops lol) and glutes for example.
Thanks for the thoughtful comment! Enjoy your long-distance runs!~
I always thought that people commented on her looks not only because of her being mixed, but also because people tend to victim blame someone depending on their appearance or origins. Like how some students say that Ann is "Easy" and even Talk about her "Being with" Kamoshida, but don't stop and think about how that is wrong, instead they paint her as the problem. And is only until the abuser confesses that people apologize for ever thinking she was like that.
Oooook new SMT channel to follow, Noice!
If Ann truly is part Finnish, then the devs surely couldn’t resist the urge to make a naughty joke of her name. Since Ann is already a sexualised character, her Finnish version of the surname Takamäki, aka Backhill, can be seen as a sex joke on her ”backhill”, aka her butt or backside.
Another layer to this that I'd like to point out is that the ostracism faced by Ann due to being a 'Hafu' is something that leads to people not wanting to be friends with her or treat her nicely. But the fact that Shiho decided to befriend her despite this (and openly behaves nicely towards Joker even under abuse) shows not only that Shiho is just an amazing person, but also that she must have been ostracized for her behaviour not aligning with the collectivist agenda.
This means that:
1) Ann must have felt even more guilty seeing Shiho having only Ann as her true close friend due to her decision to befriend a lonely 'Hafu'
2) Shiho must have felt even more powerless/helpless knowing that she has no one other than Ann to depend on while suffering abuse from Kamoshida
3) This in turn causes Ann to be further guilty as she knows that as the only person to have been able to help Shiho, she failed to save her friend from attempting suicide
Honestly, the first arc of P5 is probably one of the best first impressions that sticks with the player long after much bigger events have happened in the game and the story has progressed further.
I believe its stated Ann is quarter white both her Parents are Japanese with a white grandparent
Yes
I've seen and heard the about the Pack mentality before, your family name is more inportant then the invidual wich on its own says alot.
even in video games from japan bullying is a recurring subject, for example Lost Judgement, whose story goes for a big part about bullying in school.
And the sexual harrasment just is the worst, especially when schools try to hide it just to save their reputation, something P5 shows very well.
A great video, very informative on the social state in Japan, though i had already learned alot about from manga.
shiho is a favorite character in the series. i tend to be drawn to side characters in all things though lol. Futaba is my favorite main cast character though.
I wouldn't mind making friends with a foreigner, even though I would struggle with their language, but don't want them feeling lonely, and I can empathize for them.
Persona in general in my opinion tends to underdeveloped the first male and female classmate characters in order to help make the MC feel more like a teenager. As a result, any character introduced after the core four tend to be leaked more interesting. I love how royal corrects this by giving Ann more to do after her story arc. There is only so much you can give to the cool girl character when you have literal hackers, detectives, and an aikido practitioner in the story, so giving her the decision to study abroad and be more worldly really suits her, and makes me like her so much more
I recall a manga that had a half Japanese or quarter female protagonist. She had blonde or red hair and her old female teacher kept pestering her to dye it black. She eventually caved in but asked her Japanese boyfriend about it and is happy if she does her hair black. Not because he's disgusted by her natural hair, but just because he thinks its sexy. Don't know if she changes it back later.
A light novel also had a half male protagonist with blonde hair, but looks very Japanese and a tough one at that. Also his hair color wasn't very nice compared to his mother or sister, so people assumed he was a punk who died his hair badly. Later on he dyes his hair to fit in as people were afraid of him when he joins the student council. Originally he never wanted to dye hi s1 hair as it was natural and he felt it honored his mother who passed away, but to make a real attempt in fitting in he dyes his hair. He does change it back in the end I believe.
It’s funny to think Japan has any type of xenophobia to whites / half whites when you consider the majority of their characters due to the stylization really do look like white people no one’s gonna look at Sailor Moon and be like oh that’s just an Asian girl with the blue contacts and blonde dyed hair ..... like it’s just the weirdest thing to me like to use the color pallets and genetic colored features that make up the most important basis of white identity ... then to hate on the race/mixes when they move to u country ...
I think most of the discrimination comes from being mixed and this goes for anyone who’s mixed with Japanese and raised in japan.
And the anime part..
Well when you look at sailor moon you don’t go white girl either
She doesn’t look like anyone like most anime characters.
It’s a really confusing and dumb discussion
The whole “white or asian anime characters” thing
Because it honestly doesn’t matter at the end of the day.
That's part of the "Cool Japan" PR campaign, e with the government itself directly encouraging artists to make their characters not look like any particular ethnicity in order to better appeal to foreign audiences... with strictly economic motives in mind, that is.
I believe Ann femme fatale strenght is a great resource to find new skills on fighting for her friends and keep focusing on her model career discipline. Some fans make bad takes about she being a typical bimbo, but she is formidable being sexy and strong to achieve her goals.
Ahh, Ann. Best girl and first girl.
I was super excited for this analysis! So glad I got to watch it now! :D This was so wonderful as well, thank you so much for all your hard work you put into these!
I have a very dear best friend of mine who's mixed and talks a lot about everything - both funny and complicated - that comes with it. And while she isn't Japanese, and we're both in Canada, I always liked that P5 at least touched on this experience, though for my friend's sake (and for others too of course) I wish they could have gone more into it. Though my best friend and Ann are super different people, I both admire them a lot!!
I've always had so much appreciation for Ann, and like it was touched on at the ending... I also wish she got better treatment in game and from developers/the story. Especially coming from a fellow survivor, something about a sexual assault victim like Ann being treated in such a sexualized fan-service-y way always just icked me on such a profound level. Also yes, also agree with the ending scene with Ryuji just felt... so unnatural. I'm super glad it seems to be a common perspective!!
And this is a bit of fan interpretation (Fanon? Don't remember the right word) that I love, and that's the fact that you could very easily also read Ann as dealing with compulsory heterosexuality. Which honestly especially resonated with me as a gay man who struggled with it too!
I think it's fairly easy, no matter if people headcanon her as either bisexual or a lesbian (I'm partial to no. 2, especially since there's the adorable pun of Lesbi-ann) to see, because of her very strong relationship with Shiho.
I've heard from a lot of LGBT+ gal fans/friends that forcing yourself to tolerate either advances from or a relationship of any kind with a man is pretty common when you haven't realized you're not straight, so sometimes your brain can overcompensate and think you have to, forcing yourself to think you need to to be accepted or 'correct'/'right'. And I think that could really be possible for someone like Ann, especially after everything with Kamoshida and add just another level of forcing herself to just tolerate his disgusting harassment.
Anyway, regardless Shiho and Ann both deserve so much good in their lives. :') Can't wait for more super amazing analysis!! Thank you so much again for always making these really informative videos!
"Could be easily read as Ann dealing with compulsory heterosexuality." Curious as to how you came up with this theory.
Are you going to be going through all the confidants? That would be awesome! Love this video series
Honestly, a lot of this had already been done better before in the series with Lisa Silverman.
I'm super late to the party. But I'm glad I found this place.
Imagine people dying their hair just to fit in society... And it's even worse when you can't actually change the futures nor the color of skin to fit in that society... That's extremely sad
I thought that Ann was originally from Finland (Scandinavia) and moved to the US and then to Japan. *shrug*
Love how that article uses the phrase "had sex with her" and not ya know Raped her! , which is what happened. (This is sarcasm I very much do not love this)
About the rising number, paraphrasing one SVU episode "More cases is a good thing, as usually the victims were to scare to denounce, now they feel their cases will be investigated, and them not shamed"
"shes a cougar..." - Morgana, the dumbass car
While I do agree that it could have been done at least a little better for Ann to a certain extent, personally, I've never found those controversial scenes (more specifically the Yusuke model and Ryuji is alive scenes) as insensitive, but for good reasons.
1. The Yusuke Part - while it does follow a cliche, it doesn't do it just for the sake of a cliche, since it was something Ann had to do to accomplish a goal and of course she would be nervous and awkward when doing so considering the context, so it was believable, at least for me.
2. The Ryuji is Alive Part - While I do agree that they punish Ryuji too harshly (even though it made me laugh) and that it was somewhat out of character, it wasn't just out of pure anger. Ryuji, who they thought died, made a rude response after barely surviving stating to them that they don't look pretty when they cry, I mean DUDE! They thought you died! Of course they're crying!
But it could be just me being too forgiving to the game. Some of you reading this may actually have great counter-arguments.