This raid is quite possibly one of the greatest raids Blizzard have ever created, along with Ulduar. I still remember my guild struggling so much on hard mode but then something just clicked inside of us and we got our first kill, and our GM/Raid Leader got the first horse as that's what we had decided ahead of time as she was awesome. After that they were given out via DKP so I got the 2nd as I had been hoarding mine :) Once we had gotten horses for all the raid team we started doing GDKP runs every reset and made a lot of money for the guild bank, back when GDKPs weren't corrupt as hell. We also had a lot of casual players in our guild so we would also take them for a horse as well, in the end we got a lot of horses for a lot of people, which made us very happy.
I never really got to experience ICC too much back in the day, the guild i was with never downed normal LK even with the buff. But now, after solo healing most of Ulduar 10 and getting both Algalon and Yogg 0 before ToC (and getting 50/50 week 2 on 10m), i think I'll be able to actually enjoy ICC with competent players.
It was a nightmare with a bad group back in the day, or even just one bad player. There's some many 'personal responsibility' mechanics to deal with. So with a good guild around you it should be a fun time - everyone having their time to shine.
@tiberiuszann7284 most Ulduar HM bosses are quite simple... it was mostly about rng... especially Iron Council (i hate that boss fight so much on hm) and Algalon was about good timing on exploding stars... anything else was easy for our guild once we figured it out.
@@Ovrlol nah yeah. Ulduar was harder than ICC even back in the day. It was the staggered release and the limited attempts that made it seem like it took longer. And the fact that Ulduar was buffed and they haven't said anything about ICC being buffed. It's gonna be a joke.
@@Mindgames9999 I like most of the changes they did. WotLK at the time had a ton of improvements, but also a ton of downsides. Sadly they didn't replace Trial of the Crusader with a proper raid, that would have been amazing, but it's too much to ask for...
1. Invincible is a random drop chance, whether you have it yet or not is irrelevant. 2. ICC is absolutely up there in terms of both design and difficulty at the time, beating every raid in the last three to four expansions. 3. No I am not playing Wrath Classic, already experienced it at its prime, and yes I already have Invincible.
This whole raid was the reason I played since tbc classic. In original wrath I was never able to see heroic 25 Arthas, only defeated him in 10. Now I have Valanyr, I‘m going to make sure to change that!
I was a teenager back in the day in original Wrath and I could barely do 10-man normal and some bosses on 25...This time I will be prepared to clear everything on 25 HC!
@@PollyCot lol nothing at all, but I can see it sounding a little cheesy when looking back on it...anyways I think it's gonna be a good time is all - this is gonna be the last hurrah for a lot of people so the hype is slowly but surely building up
Hopefully this will be as fun as it was back in the day. I remember it getting progressively harder as well, none of this "second/fourth boss is actually the hardest" that we had to deal with in Ulduar (aka, XT - and I do love Ulduar, but holy moly before XT was nerfed...). The only thing I'm a little 'concerned' about is the amount of trash, it may get boring very quickly (especially if we do a repeat of OG Wrath and farm that trash for hours on end to max reputation).
@@Nightstalker314 Yeah, its significant. Though not the worst. Plague wing's trash is horrible and annoying, and the Blood wing trash isn't a push over. And 13 hours of farming sounds horrible. Done that before (twice, actually - the Sunwell trash farming was intense). Will probably end up doing it again though, because... well. Its hard to ignore those rings.
@@andromidius on pserver we pretty much just pull all of the plague trash at the bottom stairs togther..while pulling blood trash with like a hunter same time...honestly it goes super fast lmao.a clear realistically on farm should take about the same or slightly less than ulduar.
Raided normal ICC back in the day. Haven't invested as much time since to raid. I'd love to do it again but I just don't have the time anymore and I had to stop playing before totc came out.
This was my favorite expansion. But I also quit after this one for life before they came out with the ICC raid unfortunately. It was a great time but I did come back briefly, only to realize they changed the talent system and many other things.
Classic being the more chill version of anything stopped at the very start of Wrath when people were demanding full Sunwell equipment for UK farming and nothing less.
It depends if there are guilds who have previously killed it in HC. For guilds experiencing it for the first time, never in hell for at least a couple of weeks.
The decline in players has multiple factors to attributed to it. In summary, Wrath saw the biggest spike in new players. In theory, the more players you gain, the more you will lose. Icecrown patch was the start of what we call “content drought” as well. Players got bored of running ICC for many months on end with no challenge. MMO’s started to generally fall off across the board in 2010 due to the moba hype. A lot of the Wrath players were reaching college age and just didn’t have time to play MMO’s anymore. Most of us switched over to console games or “match style” PC games that we could play in short sessions. I got big into DoTA when I quit WoW in Cata. I’m not sure if this was a factor, but Cataclysm was overall a more difficult expansion. Raids and dungeons had punishing one-shot mechanics on every level. Cataclysm Heroics are still to this day more punishing that anything I’ve ever done at gear level in WoW. I had an easier time with high M+ keys than early Cata heroics. I would wager that the “Wrath babies” that never played BC and weren’t used to keybinding their PvP spells quit because they weren’t willing to adapt to content that required more precision and technique than just burning down trash with AoE.
@@frozenpatato Absolutely, the Burning Legion storyline was as big of a part of WC3 than Frozen Throne. The entire Night Elf campaign has many ties to Legion, starting with Malfurion’s re-awakening and releasing Illidan from his prison.
will be on farm and full of GDKP within a couple weeks lol believe it or not it wasn't my favorite raid or tier back in the day look forward to watching someone make a video about how much and how many people buy their shadowmourne
Wrath was the expac where I tried raiding, and ended up fully clearing each on normal, several bosses on heroic, but no full H clears. I played in classic vanilla and TBC, but was most excited for Wrath...until I saw all the changes. I viewed LFG in Wrath as the single most social activity I ever did in WoW, was invited to my first guild while healing an LFG group (it disbanded after Ulduar), then formed a guild with a bunch of people I met in LFG that cleared the final three raids together. I still wanted to experience Wrath again, but found that the most "blizzlike" way to do so was by joining a freshly reset WoTLC private server. Over the course of less than a year, I was able to level a couple healers, a tank, and a DPS, max out a couple crafting professions (few bots there), join a guild after an invite in LFG, and clear all raids through ICC without ever participating in a GDKP. All for the cost of $0/month, and no P2W tokens for GDKP either. I feel Actiblizz really messed up classic, but glad I got to experience it again via other means.
This is the expansion that burned me out. I did literally everything. Got the TLPD, cleared 25 Heroics all. Man I love this game but it was a job if you were one of the top guilds on your server.
Same. As soon as I got into the first raid of Cata and realized how difficult it was going to be I just couldn't invest anymore energy into raiding at a high level and shortly after just stopped playing all together for years.
@@brandonbeimert8404Thats called being a little bitch lmao. Oh it gets difficult? I am out cya guys i was a hardcor raider btw who likes HARDcore content
That's why I stopped doing the highest difficulty content in WoW. It's actually super fun in retail to just do Normal/Heroic Raid and M+ up to the highest single key. It's chill, it's engaging and fun, while being neither too brain-dead and easy nor too grindy and hard. P.S. I still wish they'd make Normal Raid difficulty between LFR and where Normal is now as Normal and Heroic are pretty much almost the same difficulty, just tuned for different ilvl and up 1 mechanic and 1 mechanical effect difference per boss.
They really should! Warcraft: The Beginning, Warcraft: The Fallen (up to culling of Stratholme), Warcraft: Lich (up to sitting on the frozen throne) and Warcraft: King (defeating the Lich King, basicly wotlk storyline)
I thought the movie was really good and I was so hopeful theu would continue the story. Warcraft has some really fleshed out lore that is just ripe for the picking. Makes no sense they do nothing with it other then retcon it all in retail.
Release day: All bosses, no staggered release. No attempt counter, no buff. 5-9 resets later: Add in buff and Ruby Sanctum. That is enough time for hard mode. After that if you want to proove yourselces then turn it off. Add a feat of strength to killing Arthas without it. People in non hardcore guilds stared complaining about ToGC not having anything left to offer week three or four so get that buff in to keep the dad guilds progressing heroic before they all say "I'm done. See ya in Cata". Keep as alive as possible up to pre patch
Saronite bombs did siege damage (I think because it could be used in Wintergrasp against buildings) and that's what messed up the encounter with the Litch King. I think it had to do with the way they phased in buildings and parts of zones - using the bomb before the platform dropped out glitched it and that's why they could avoid that mechanic.
hey not sure if it’s just something on mobile devices but the thumbnail for this video seems broken. it’s just a frame of ICC with pretty much no indication that it’s a WillE video
IIRC the 25hc IDs were sold towards the end of ICC as people only needed the ilvl284 wepons from the final boss. In this context, limiting the attempts to 50 does make sense and is realistically exaustable
For ToGC, they dropped the requirement to kill Anub on 25 man normal to access 25 heroic. I expect the same in ICC. My ideal ICC would be remove the attempts system, start with heroic available, all bosses available, no buff available for the first month or two, then 5% every 2 weeks until 30% cap.
I wouldn't mind staggered boss releases if Heroic was released off the bat, but maybe just like 1 or 2 weeks apart would be more appropriate than what they were.
I’m sure people are excited but with the paid boosts and WoW token I feel like blizzard has handled the expansion horribly and killed any hype I had. Era has been a blast and I’ll be sticking with that for a while haha
Darling aint nobody DUMB ENOUGH to buy token when g2g Excist. Do realize the gold sold on G2G (Straight from Boosters). Boost prices do not follow token price, boost prices follow third party gold sellers, been for last 15 years. Imagine some stupid child buy token for 5k gold when 20 euro, is sold by same person hosting gdkp giving you 20k gold.
Thinking of raiding ICC back in the day I'm struck by the sound of "YOU ARE FOOLS TO HAVE COME TO THIS PLACE! THE ICY WINDS OF NORTHREND WILL CONSUME YOUR SOULS!" Good times.
Release normal first week and heroic the next week. Make the buff go up every 2 or 3 weeks and call it a day. Realistically tying gear to the buffs might work fine, but part of the 'charm' of ICC was the power fantasy of just crushing things and seeing huge numbers. Might be okay for legendary shards, but legendary shards have a really high drop chance on heroic anyway, and it wasn't uncommon to get 8 a week.
i think it will start with normal and heroic open but u need to clear normal to do heroic and heroic will have 20 attempts with 5 more being added every two weeks and two weeks after it hits 50 they will start adding in the 5% buff going up every two weeks so that ICC lasts about 6 months
All possible except the normal requirement. They haven't even done that in ToGC. Also don't forget doing that would completely screw the "world first" players as regions have different resets.
I hope they release it somewhat like original, to keep all the players on a server on a somewhat even playing field for atleast a while, would give most players a feeling of community ❤️
I wouldn't mind Blizzard opening a new wing every week with Heroic being available on the first week without an attempt cap. However, I wouldn't want them to add the debuff choice to the raid until maybe RS PTR is out. I dont want to be seeing too many guilds abusing it to immediately start running GDKPs and/or gearing every single alt within a matter of weeks with Heroic gear. Basically.. make it fun and intriguing without opening the floodgates until RS is in PTR. Then just let us have fun at that point going into Cata.
I'd just stick with 0% buff forever. Would make top guilds really fight hard for that heroic kills and average guilds would have to try hard to beat LK normal. That's how it should be in my opinion
Nobody in 2023 is gonna agree to this, all pussies that think they deserve to be equal with the try hards. There should be a stratification, that doesn’t mean you block those that want to try, but if people aren’t good enough then they aren’t good enough.
Personally for classic I would quite like it if they just remove attempts and then stack the buff in 5% increments 4 weeks after patch, or the heroic reset if they include the normal clear requirement. After that a toggle would be nice but I'm not too bothered if they just leave it as all or nothing after buff is released, the only way to parse will likely be on 0% and the guilds that don't care about that can use the buff.
@@MoonTurky lol, okay bud. I've played every class in the game, including learning to farm the entire top floor of BRD (single pull) on a frost mage. But I enjoy soloing high level dungeons as a paladin. I completed all wotlk heroics solo except for the stupid spider one. I have my doubts you'd be able to accomplish such a feat. The reason I solo is to avoid playing with dipshits such as yourself that think they're contributing more than they actually are. Both tank and healing are far more stressful (and rewarding), than pushing one button as hard as you can with no regard for what any one else is doing. DPS are a dime a million, and there is a reason there are so many, just like there are so many stupid people playing WoW. Like in life there are those that seek leadership and responsibility, and there are those that despise us proud and few that relish the challenge. I have a suggestion, try not being such a toxic POS and try tanking, or healing. Let me know when you're soloing Scholo in classic or Heroic Halls of Lightning in WoTLK (Not in raid purps either btw). In the meantime shut the fk up, and get carried by people far smarter and stronger than you.
@@MoonTurky I know you're retarded but read what you said "the only reason you tank/heal is you suck"....the highest skill ceiling classes are only played because they're easy? If they're so easy why are you sitting in Raid Finder as dps waiting for a tank? The game should be full of tanks if that were the case. Go play hunter, work your responsibility free Mc Job, and delude yourself some more. The WoW community NEVER ceases to amaze me with how stupid many of it's players are.
@@MoonTurky I've given it some thought and I do remember now all the people in LFG: We desperately need a rogue!!!!! We've been waiting in queue for over an hour for a rogue!!! Guys we need more people rolling rogue or hunter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (I'm being facetious you waste of space btw)
A lot of them are, yeah. Its midway between Ulduar and ToC in terms of difficulty, though the easy encounters are early on for the most part. Putricide will be difficult for dad guilds to deal with if they aren't being hard carried by someone who's an expert with the Abomination, and Lich King has a lot going on for a quite long fight (even if we're doing more DPS then back in the day it'll still be almost ten minutes) and requires people to maintain concentration and not get frustrated.
I recall enjoying the variety of fights - first boss in tank n spank, 2nd is add control, 3rd is a fun event with free loot, 4th is a relatively hard dps check compared the previous. Festergut and Rotface are just warmups for Putricide who has an emphasis on timing. Blood princes has a slight unpredictable nature to it with the raid basically swapping between phases, Lanathel is gonna be a zerg fest, but still fun because big numbers. Green dragon whatchamacallit is add control plus healer carry fight which breaks the mold quite nicely, sindragosa has a lot of individual responsibility. Finally Arthas has a little bit of everything, massive individual responsibility, important timing pushes, add control, multiple phases and a changing fighting area, overall really cool fight.
@@MultipolarBear485 Paragon did it with 3% not 0%. They were, however, the only guild in the world to do it with 3%. Other kills didn't come in until it was 5% or higher.
I'm a new WoW player, never got to play it when I was young so I wanna get my chance to kill the Lich King at least once...Back in launch I manage to complete Naxxramas like 5 times with my mage, then due to life I had to stop playing. Now I started on another server with a paladin, how much time you guys think I have to get back on my feet for ICC? I'm at lvl 24 at this moment
What are the chances of a new wrath player starting now and getting to take part in this Raid? I'm leveling at the minute and lvl 73. I never managed to play Wrath first time around. I've been loving playing it again now, but only just got into it.
You can get 5k gearscore within a few resets, just spam titan rune beta dungeons the first week and do anything you can to get into a ToC10/25 run once you’re 225+ ilvl. You’ll be good to go for ICC in less than a month if you can clear both a few times. This is probably the easiest phase to catch up in, in the expansion that it’s easiest to catch up in (and the 5 mans in final phase will give you any more help if you still need it)
@@AndyBlue297Thanks, that's super helpful. I know I'll kick myself down the line if I miss out a second time around haha, I'll get on the leveling and try to catch up. Just need to stop getting distracted by hardcore... 😅
Unless somehow a lot of guilds find themselves struggling - then maybe start added it. And maybe only on normal at first. Keep heroic as difficult as possible - we'll have a lot of time to progress on it if needed, after all.
Maybe it's weird, but I think a raid should just be enjoyed as is, not with a buff where you can incremently decide the difficulty. Just normal or heroic, with a scaling that the developers just made right
I really hope blizz decided to time gate the raid to drag it out longer. That way there’s not elitists coming into other parts of the game just trying to flex that they spent 75 hours week 1 to show off their arthas purples
Please answer! Why does everyone say that the 3 day ban seriously affected their HC progress? Are you talking about progress on the first few bosses? Ensidias first HC kill on Lord Marrowgar was 1 minute after Paragons first kill on him. The second kill on LK25HC was 2 weeks and 2 days after Paragons world first.
Cause of that bann some players of Ensidia stopped playing alltogether. Imagine being the top for years, everyone looking up to you. And then during some of WoW's prime content phases you get banned for no reason; by using something min-maxers would.... Losing 4-5core raiders could easely mean end of a raidingguild, even the top guild like Ensidia. If not mistaken they disbanded soon after this incident even... was a huge thing back then😅
@@nickmiltenburg3699 Insane that you would quit for getting banned for 3 days during normal 🤣 It's also strange that Ensidia was the only ones who used the bug unknowingly...
I left because of the WoW Token. But mostly because they don’t have Dungeon Finder. If they don’t add the dungeon finder when they release ICC I will be missing out.
After playing classic Wrath, I no longer believe the WC3 Arthas story ending was what started the decline. It just simply does not feel as rewarding to play as Vanilla and TBC were.
I am speechless on why blizz doesnt just ask the community how they should approach. what about those surveys we had for classic? lack of communication is the reason for everything being bad about a game, just ask the players and then act accordingly.
Because you'll get an incoherent answer. No-one wants the same thing. Some people actively want to deny other people things they want. And compromises mean few people are truly satisfied. So you ignore the outlaying opinions, let them quit, keep the core who want to keep playing.
@@andromidius Just ignore those who deny sh!t and focus on those who suggest sh!t and then poll the suggestions Stop making excuses for _'youthinkyoudobutyoudont"
Can someone tell me if they already implemented RDF ? If not then i still out of Wrath, i love playing as healer and healer only and dont see myself leveling all again just to casually find a group to heal while sufferig to do quests.
If they give the zone buff on release i wont be playing. Current phase is a joke and i don't understand why they think faceroll is compelling on the hardest difficulty
MoP had many positives, but many more negatives that outweighed the positives. Also it's not fair to compare, Cataclysm was a huge step in dungeon and raid boss mechanical depth, complexity and overall quality and MoP outside of Tier14 was on par with Cata(if not slightly better). WoD was the next big step in raid and dungeon boss mechanics.
@@Tomkraal me too, but it's my least favorite expansion, I hope they fix it up, because MoP has the potential to be excellent, but has too many downsides. Though I doubt they will improve the dungeons and Tier14 raids.
Down lich king until it gets boring then take a break. Near 0 reason to work on maxing out since it all becomes super useless in Cataclysm and the insane stat increase of gear.
RMT will get even more out of control, at this point i´m only disappointed that i quit some months ago and didnt jump on the GDKP wagon to make serious bank...
I hope we don't get the buff for ICC this time round. HC will die, as you say, day one. It's the final raid, it should be hard, we have easier 258 gear from ToGC when you get a few slots of 264 gear and 245 gear from the new gamma currency. I like your idea of more shards depending on buff
There should be no Buff available at least for 2 months. ICC bosses should be buffed to make the raid harder. The patch should last for 1 year before they release Cata. This is the best raid of WoW, let us enjoy it. If we get LOD week 1, it will be boring and unchallenging.
Can’t wait to see all of the credit card Shadowmourne Warriors
100% true.
poor fag, imagine being a loser in real life and in game lma0
facts. Can't wait to get shadowmourne and be surrounded by the other 1000 warriors who bought it :)
@@snakeysstyle783 Let them waste their money lol. They’ll use it for a few months until phase 1 of Cataclysm
Can’t wait for people to keep crying about how others play the game, on a 14 year old version… clown
This raid is quite possibly one of the greatest raids Blizzard have ever created, along with Ulduar. I still remember my guild struggling so much on hard mode but then something just clicked inside of us and we got our first kill, and our GM/Raid Leader got the first horse as that's what we had decided ahead of time as she was awesome. After that they were given out via DKP so I got the 2nd as I had been hoarding mine :) Once we had gotten horses for all the raid team we started doing GDKP runs every reset and made a lot of money for the guild bank, back when GDKPs weren't corrupt as hell. We also had a lot of casual players in our guild so we would also take them for a horse as well, in the end we got a lot of horses for a lot of people, which made us very happy.
I never really got to experience ICC too much back in the day, the guild i was with never downed normal LK even with the buff. But now, after solo healing most of Ulduar 10 and getting both Algalon and Yogg 0 before ToC (and getting 50/50 week 2 on 10m), i think I'll be able to actually enjoy ICC with competent players.
It was a nightmare with a bad group back in the day, or even just one bad player. There's some many 'personal responsibility' mechanics to deal with. So with a good guild around you it should be a fun time - everyone having their time to shine.
@tiberiuszann7284 most Ulduar HM bosses are quite simple... it was mostly about rng... especially Iron Council (i hate that boss fight so much on hm) and Algalon was about good timing on exploding stars... anything else was easy for our guild once we figured it out.
so we'll see how hard Sindragosa, Prof and LK will be on hc difficulty.
@tiberiuszann7284 yeh nah. Uld 10 hm is a joke
@@Ovrlol nah yeah. Ulduar was harder than ICC even back in the day. It was the staggered release and the limited attempts that made it seem like it took longer. And the fact that Ulduar was buffed and they haven't said anything about ICC being buffed. It's gonna be a joke.
I remember being in a causal guild only get up to Professor Putricide and the Dream Dragon
ICC and Wrath were a great time
Too bad Classic is botched with all their stupid changes nobody asked for.
@@Mindgames9999 I mean, WotLK is botched even without the changes.
@@Mindgames9999 I like most of the changes they did. WotLK at the time had a ton of improvements, but also a ton of downsides. Sadly they didn't replace Trial of the Crusader with a proper raid, that would have been amazing, but it's too much to ask for...
no it wasn't, got bored after couple runs
@@Mindgames9999i’m glad they buffed feral. stay mad
ICC hype. ICC hype.
Nah
Lmao, icc is the worst raid ever made
How can people be hyped? Probably 90% of people playing rhis are still farming invincible on retail LOL
1. Invincible is a random drop chance, whether you have it yet or not is irrelevant.
2. ICC is absolutely up there in terms of both design and difficulty at the time, beating every raid in the last three to four expansions.
3. No I am not playing Wrath Classic, already experienced it at its prime, and yes I already have Invincible.
Cata hype.
Zzzzzzzzzzzz……..
Good video as always mate! Funny that invincible dropped during the 30% clip 😂
This whole raid was the reason I played since tbc classic. In original wrath I was never able to see heroic 25 Arthas, only defeated him in 10. Now I have Valanyr, I‘m going to make sure to change that!
Nobody gives a shit about your sweatlord legacy of returning to stomp a piss easy 15 year old boss because gamer pride
people with val always have to mention they have a val lmao
I'm so happy for you
I'm so excited for ICC. Not only do I love this raid, but also my friends will return to Classic since they dropped the game before Ulduar.
aww, that's always the best part :)
I was a teenager back in the day in original Wrath and I could barely do 10-man normal and some bosses on 25...This time I will be prepared to clear everything on 25 HC!
I wish you the best of luck!
As someone who only pugged normal 30% back in the day im looking forward to doing it on the highest difficulty along with the 3 new dungeons!
How much were you paid to write this
@@PollyCotUnalive yourself.
@@PollyCot lol nothing at all, but I can see it sounding a little cheesy when looking back on it...anyways I think it's gonna be a good time is all - this is gonna be the last hurrah for a lot of people so the hype is slowly but surely building up
Hopefully this will be as fun as it was back in the day. I remember it getting progressively harder as well, none of this "second/fourth boss is actually the hardest" that we had to deal with in Ulduar (aka, XT - and I do love Ulduar, but holy moly before XT was nerfed...). The only thing I'm a little 'concerned' about is the amount of trash, it may get boring very quickly (especially if we do a repeat of OG Wrath and farm that trash for hours on end to max reputation).
No reason not to spend about 13 hours farming rep the ring is huge
"The amount of trash". The trash before the first boss in raw numbers represents almost half of the trash in the entire instance.
The trash towards the vampire lady is the annoying trash
@@Nightstalker314 Yeah, its significant. Though not the worst. Plague wing's trash is horrible and annoying, and the Blood wing trash isn't a push over.
And 13 hours of farming sounds horrible. Done that before (twice, actually - the Sunwell trash farming was intense). Will probably end up doing it again though, because... well. Its hard to ignore those rings.
@@andromidius on pserver we pretty much just pull all of the plague trash at the bottom stairs togther..while pulling blood trash with like a hunter same time...honestly it goes super fast lmao.a clear realistically on farm should take about the same or slightly less than ulduar.
Raided normal ICC back in the day. Haven't invested as much time since to raid. I'd love to do it again but I just don't have the time anymore and I had to stop playing before totc came out.
This was my favorite expansion. But I also quit after this one for life before they came out with the ICC raid unfortunately. It was a great time but I did come back briefly, only to realize they changed the talent system and many other things.
you missed some really good expansions
Classic being the more chill version of anything stopped at the very start of Wrath when people were demanding full Sunwell equipment for UK farming and nothing less.
Lol I remember that
>cue *_"This company MUST be purged"_*
Why is the mount called invincible if I can see it?
Because it’s not named…. Invisible…..
@@DWAIBudno, invisible is when no one can hurt you . . . The mount is named invincible
Great video as always my man
This is a reminder that LK 25hc will get oneshot from day 1
on Warmane it took weeks for first LK HC to be killed, just people didnt have the gear to do so...
It depends if there are guilds who have previously killed it in HC. For guilds experiencing it for the first time, never in hell for at least a couple of weeks.
Cataclysm Classic Hype
Thanks for all the videos. The classic journey would have not been the same without you.
ICC will be peak classic content , cant wait for it
Molten Core, Karazhan, Black Temple and Ulduar are peak classic content if you ask me. ICC is up there with BWL, TK/SSC and Sunwell, but not peak.
The Warcraft III story ended on top of Icecrown Citadel. As such, the decline afterwards was inevitable.
The decline starts on wrath, but most widows dont admite it
The Burning Legion was still part of the Warcraft story, but yes; a major peak of Warcraft fell after Icecrown Citadel.
@@CamiloHerreraLavadoI think wrath was the plateau… it stopped improving. And then started collapsing after wards.
The decline in players has multiple factors to attributed to it.
In summary, Wrath saw the biggest spike in new players. In theory, the more players you gain, the more you will lose.
Icecrown patch was the start of what we call “content drought” as well. Players got bored of running ICC for many months on end with no challenge.
MMO’s started to generally fall off across the board in 2010 due to the moba hype. A lot of the Wrath players were reaching college age and just didn’t have time to play MMO’s anymore. Most of us switched over to console games or “match style” PC games that we could play in short sessions. I got big into DoTA when I quit WoW in Cata.
I’m not sure if this was a factor, but Cataclysm was overall a more difficult expansion. Raids and dungeons had punishing one-shot mechanics on every level.
Cataclysm Heroics are still to this day more punishing that anything I’ve ever done at gear level in WoW. I had an easier time with high M+ keys than early Cata heroics.
I would wager that the “Wrath babies” that never played BC and weren’t used to keybinding their PvP spells quit because they weren’t willing to adapt to content that required more precision and technique than just burning down trash with AoE.
@@frozenpatato
Absolutely, the Burning Legion storyline was as big of a part of WC3 than Frozen Throne.
The entire Night Elf campaign has many ties to Legion, starting with Malfurion’s re-awakening and releasing Illidan from his prison.
will be on farm and full of GDKP within a couple weeks lol
believe it or not it wasn't my favorite raid or tier back in the day
look forward to watching someone make a video about how much and how many people buy their shadowmourne
Wrath was the expac where I tried raiding, and ended up fully clearing each on normal, several bosses on heroic, but no full H clears. I played in classic vanilla and TBC, but was most excited for Wrath...until I saw all the changes. I viewed LFG in Wrath as the single most social activity I ever did in WoW, was invited to my first guild while healing an LFG group (it disbanded after Ulduar), then formed a guild with a bunch of people I met in LFG that cleared the final three raids together. I still wanted to experience Wrath again, but found that the most "blizzlike" way to do so was by joining a freshly reset WoTLC private server. Over the course of less than a year, I was able to level a couple healers, a tank, and a DPS, max out a couple crafting professions (few bots there), join a guild after an invite in LFG, and clear all raids through ICC without ever participating in a GDKP. All for the cost of $0/month, and no P2W tokens for GDKP either. I feel Actiblizz really messed up classic, but glad I got to experience it again via other means.
LFG wasn't implemented until ICC though. People forget this all the time and have false memories.
This is the expansion that burned me out. I did literally everything. Got the TLPD, cleared 25 Heroics all. Man I love this game but it was a job if you were one of the top guilds on your server.
Same. As soon as I got into the first raid of Cata and realized how difficult it was going to be I just couldn't invest anymore energy into raiding at a high level and shortly after just stopped playing all together for years.
@@brandonbeimert8404Thats called being a little bitch lmao.
Oh it gets difficult? I am out cya guys i was a hardcor raider btw who likes HARDcore content
That's why I stopped doing the highest difficulty content in WoW. It's actually super fun in retail to just do Normal/Heroic Raid and M+ up to the highest single key. It's chill, it's engaging and fun, while being neither too brain-dead and easy nor too grindy and hard.
P.S. I still wish they'd make Normal Raid difficulty between LFR and where Normal is now as Normal and Heroic are pretty much almost the same difficulty, just tuned for different ilvl and up 1 mechanic and 1 mechanical effect difference per boss.
I cannot understand why they seemingly cannot capture the Arthas story arch properly on film.
Because the people who wrote and really cared about that story/character are long gone.
They really should! Warcraft: The Beginning, Warcraft: The Fallen (up to culling of Stratholme), Warcraft: Lich (up to sitting on the frozen throne) and Warcraft: King (defeating the Lich King, basicly wotlk storyline)
I thought the movie was really good and I was so hopeful theu would continue the story.
Warcraft has some really fleshed out lore that is just ripe for the picking. Makes no sense they do nothing with it other then retcon it all in retail.
Ask Hollywood studios why they wasted 5 years of pre-production from 2008 to 2013 and came up with nothing.
i love you bro - your passion for wow and your videos. Thanks for entraining me, cheers!
Release day: All bosses, no staggered release. No attempt counter, no buff.
5-9 resets later: Add in buff and Ruby Sanctum.
That is enough time for hard mode. After that if you want to proove yourselces then turn it off. Add a feat of strength to killing Arthas without it.
People in non hardcore guilds stared complaining about ToGC not having anything left to offer week three or four so get that buff in to keep the dad guilds progressing heroic before they all say "I'm done. See ya in Cata".
Keep as alive as possible up to pre patch
Saronite bombs did siege damage (I think because it could be used in Wintergrasp against buildings) and that's what messed up the encounter with the Litch King. I think it had to do with the way they phased in buildings and parts of zones - using the bomb before the platform dropped out glitched it and that's why they could avoid that mechanic.
hey not sure if it’s just something on mobile devices but the thumbnail for this video seems broken. it’s just a frame of ICC with pretty much no indication that it’s a WillE video
I can't wait to never get hadowmourne because the holy paladin gets priority because he's part of he loot council :^)
"This is what we've been waiting for, Rocky! This is why we're here!!"
IIRC the 25hc IDs were sold towards the end of ICC as people only needed the ilvl284 wepons from the final boss. In this context, limiting the attempts to 50 does make sense and is realistically exaustable
The Paragon Kill ..so Epic
Cherish that 2 reset guild run of icc. Then 1mil gdkp runs takes over
I forgot how much they experimented with raids in Wrath, both with the difficulties and the 10/25 stuff.
For ToGC, they dropped the requirement to kill Anub on 25 man normal to access 25 heroic. I expect the same in ICC. My ideal ICC would be remove the attempts system, start with heroic available, all bosses available, no buff available for the first month or two, then 5% every 2 weeks until 30% cap.
14:30. Anyone know what that music is? It sounds so familiar.
Great video! Keep it up
I wouldn't mind staggered boss releases if Heroic was released off the bat, but maybe just like 1 or 2 weeks apart would be more appropriate than what they were.
Im over 6k casts in...trying to get that dang turtle mount
6k casts? you gotta pump up those rookie numbers (cries in 16k+)
Love these sort of videos!
I’m sure people are excited but with the paid boosts and WoW token I feel like blizzard has handled the expansion horribly and killed any hype I had. Era has been a blast and I’ll be sticking with that for a while haha
Darling aint nobody DUMB ENOUGH to buy token when g2g Excist. Do realize the gold sold on G2G (Straight from Boosters). Boost prices do not follow token price, boost prices follow third party gold sellers, been for last 15 years. Imagine some stupid child buy token for 5k gold when 20 euro, is sold by same person hosting gdkp giving you 20k gold.
I personally stopped playing the day token hit wotlk
You do you :)
Thinking of raiding ICC back in the day I'm struck by the sound of "YOU ARE FOOLS TO HAVE COME TO THIS PLACE! THE ICY WINDS OF NORTHREND WILL CONSUME YOUR SOULS!"
Good times.
Release normal first week and heroic the next week. Make the buff go up every 2 or 3 weeks and call it a day.
Realistically tying gear to the buffs might work fine, but part of the 'charm' of ICC was the power fantasy of just crushing things and seeing huge numbers. Might be okay for legendary shards, but legendary shards have a really high drop chance on heroic anyway, and it wasn't uncommon to get 8 a week.
attempts sounds interesting for the first couple weeks.. a bragging right for guilds
i think it will start with normal and heroic open but u need to clear normal to do heroic and heroic will have 20 attempts with 5 more being added every two weeks and two weeks after it hits 50 they will start adding in the 5% buff going up every two weeks so that ICC lasts about 6 months
All possible except the normal requirement. They haven't even done that in ToGC. Also don't forget doing that would completely screw the "world first" players as regions have different resets.
I hope they release it somewhat like original, to keep all the players on a server on a somewhat even playing field for atleast a while, would give most players a feeling of community ❤️
Won't happen with their TotGC track record. Even Sunwell was released all at once.
I wouldn't mind Blizzard opening a new wing every week with Heroic being available on the first week without an attempt cap. However, I wouldn't want them to add the debuff choice to the raid until maybe RS PTR is out. I dont want to be seeing too many guilds abusing it to immediately start running GDKPs and/or gearing every single alt within a matter of weeks with Heroic gear.
Basically.. make it fun and intriguing without opening the floodgates until RS is in PTR. Then just let us have fun at that point going into Cata.
Damn this video makes me excited to play wow! Can't wait for ICC! And then.. Bring on the CATACLYSM!! Aah!
I'd just stick with 0% buff forever. Would make top guilds really fight hard for that heroic kills and average guilds would have to try hard to beat LK normal. That's how it should be in my opinion
Nobody in 2023 is gonna agree to this, all pussies that think they deserve to be equal with the try hards. There should be a stratification, that doesn’t mean you block those that want to try, but if people aren’t good enough then they aren’t good enough.
Personally for classic I would quite like it if they just remove attempts and then stack the buff in 5% increments 4 weeks after patch, or the heroic reset if they include the normal clear requirement. After that a toggle would be nice but I'm not too bothered if they just leave it as all or nothing after buff is released, the only way to parse will likely be on 0% and the guilds that don't care about that can use the buff.
But how many WoW Tokens will shadowmourne cost?
Makes sense, only hardcore dedicated players would go back and play classic.
Rofl "tell the DPS not to ignore their threat meters"....as if DPS install one (I speak as a healer and tank main).
Pretending someone plays tank/healer for any other reason then sucking at the game so you have to pick a role that always gets invited lmao
@@MoonTurky lol, okay bud. I've played every class in the game, including learning to farm the entire top floor of BRD (single pull) on a frost mage. But I enjoy soloing high level dungeons as a paladin. I completed all wotlk heroics solo except for the stupid spider one. I have my doubts you'd be able to accomplish such a feat.
The reason I solo is to avoid playing with dipshits such as yourself that think they're contributing more than they actually are. Both tank and healing are far more stressful (and rewarding), than pushing one button as hard as you can with no regard for what any one else is doing. DPS are a dime a million, and there is a reason there are so many, just like there are so many stupid people playing WoW.
Like in life there are those that seek leadership and responsibility, and there are those that despise us proud and few that relish the challenge. I have a suggestion, try not being such a toxic POS and try tanking, or healing. Let me know when you're soloing Scholo in classic or Heroic Halls of Lightning in WoTLK (Not in raid purps either btw). In the meantime shut the fk up, and get carried by people far smarter and stronger than you.
@@MoonTurky I know you're retarded but read what you said "the only reason you tank/heal is you suck"....the highest skill ceiling classes are only played because they're easy? If they're so easy why are you sitting in Raid Finder as dps waiting for a tank? The game should be full of tanks if that were the case. Go play hunter, work your responsibility free Mc Job, and delude yourself some more. The WoW community NEVER ceases to amaze me with how stupid many of it's players are.
@@MoonTurky I've given it some thought and I do remember now all the people in LFG: We desperately need a rogue!!!!! We've been waiting in queue for over an hour for a rogue!!! Guys we need more people rolling rogue or hunter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (I'm being facetious you waste of space btw)
Gona grab that stam/bubble trinket for pvp
Outside of the Lich King, weren't the fights in this kind of a downgrade from ulduar mechanics-wise? That's something I've heard more than once
A lot of them are, yeah. Its midway between Ulduar and ToC in terms of difficulty, though the easy encounters are early on for the most part. Putricide will be difficult for dad guilds to deal with if they aren't being hard carried by someone who's an expert with the Abomination, and Lich King has a lot going on for a quite long fight (even if we're doing more DPS then back in the day it'll still be almost ten minutes) and requires people to maintain concentration and not get frustrated.
I recall enjoying the variety of fights - first boss in tank n spank, 2nd is add control, 3rd is a fun event with free loot, 4th is a relatively hard dps check compared the previous.
Festergut and Rotface are just warmups for Putricide who has an emphasis on timing.
Blood princes has a slight unpredictable nature to it with the raid basically swapping between phases, Lanathel is gonna be a zerg fest, but still fun because big numbers.
Green dragon whatchamacallit is add control plus healer carry fight which breaks the mold quite nicely, sindragosa has a lot of individual responsibility.
Finally Arthas has a little bit of everything, massive individual responsibility, important timing pushes, add control, multiple phases and a changing fighting area, overall really cool fight.
im really looking forward to see the 25man HC LK with 0% buff. I dont think anyone managed to kill him without the % buff back in 2010
Brother. He will be dead hours after the raid releases
Lmao Paragon who got the world first LK HC kill back in the day did it with 0%.
@@MultipolarBear485 Paragon did it with 3% not 0%. They were, however, the only guild in the world to do it with 3%. Other kills didn't come in until it was 5% or higher.
@@bartenderbetty You are wrong. :D
ruclips.net/video/YPd0A6iGBSg/видео.html&ab_channel=paragonWOW
@@bartenderbetty That is the official Paragon channel and i'm finnish so i remember this clearly.
I hope they don't do the 5%-30% buff
It really doesn't matter. After the token it just doesn't matter. Yes I am still mad af. Nice video tho!
wish they would just release it now.
ICC was my first progressive raiding experience. Many of you are in for a treat.
it wont be time gated
Blizzard “fixed” the dodge rating bug that was in the game the whole time. If they keep in the 20% dodge debuff, tanks are in for a REALLY rough time.
This is what PTR is for. Hopefully its realised and is a quick fix.
I'm a new WoW player, never got to play it when I was young so I wanna get my chance to kill the Lich King at least once...Back in launch I manage to complete Naxxramas like 5 times with my mage, then due to life I had to stop playing.
Now I started on another server with a paladin, how much time you guys think I have to get back on my feet for ICC? I'm at lvl 24 at this moment
Depends how much time you have left to play. If you play a few hours everyday you will catch up.
What are the chances of a new wrath player starting now and getting to take part in this Raid? I'm leveling at the minute and lvl 73.
I never managed to play Wrath first time around. I've been loving playing it again now, but only just got into it.
You can get 5k gearscore within a few resets, just spam titan rune beta dungeons the first week and do anything you can to get into a ToC10/25 run once you’re 225+ ilvl. You’ll be good to go for ICC in less than a month if you can clear both a few times. This is probably the easiest phase to catch up in, in the expansion that it’s easiest to catch up in (and the 5 mans in final phase will give you any more help if you still need it)
@@AndyBlue297Thanks, that's super helpful. I know I'll kick myself down the line if I miss out a second time around haha, I'll get on the leveling and try to catch up.
Just need to stop getting distracted by hardcore... 😅
Invincible 🐎 this why I started playing wow 🤩
Bro that icc progression is so cool but cant be done storyline wise and twitter 😂
Wonder what item lvl the 3 new dungs will be now since 232 gear is simple to acquire
im pretty sure heroic of the 3 new dungeons is 232 gear.
They didn't change toc so I don't see them changing these ones
Hi Will!
Imo disable the buff completely. Players are SO much better now and there should be some challenge in killing Arthas.
Unless somehow a lot of guilds find themselves struggling - then maybe start added it. And maybe only on normal at first. Keep heroic as difficult as possible - we'll have a lot of time to progress on it if needed, after all.
Maybe it's weird, but I think a raid should just be enjoyed as is, not with a buff where you can incremently decide the difficulty. Just normal or heroic, with a scaling that the developers just made right
I was in Envy on Auchindoun we did this on 5% i think we got world 7th.
I really hope blizz decided to time gate the raid to drag it out longer. That way there’s not elitists coming into other parts of the game just trying to flex that they spent 75 hours week 1 to show off their arthas purples
You shouldn't even consider adding the buff, raid will get full cleared HC on day one and after week 3 you'll see GDKP groups for Heroic.
limited attempts was a mistake from Blizzard's side
Make Invincible 100% drop on 0% LK heroic. That will make people go for it
I know a bug that's functionally identical to the saronite bomb bug, but I stopped playing WoW so I'll never get to use it 😥
Please answer!
Why does everyone say that the 3 day ban seriously affected their HC progress? Are you talking about progress on the first few bosses?
Ensidias first HC kill on Lord Marrowgar was 1 minute after Paragons first kill on him.
The second kill on LK25HC was 2 weeks and 2 days after Paragons world first.
Cause of that bann some players of Ensidia stopped playing alltogether. Imagine being the top for years, everyone looking up to you. And then during some of WoW's prime content phases you get banned for no reason; by using something min-maxers would....
Losing 4-5core raiders could easely mean end of a raidingguild, even the top guild like Ensidia.
If not mistaken they disbanded soon after this incident even... was a huge thing back then😅
@@nickmiltenburg3699 Insane that you would quit for getting banned for 3 days during normal 🤣 It's also strange that Ensidia was the only ones who used the bug unknowingly...
@@tompatompssonYeah, yeah, stop crying and liking your own comments, ydb
@@josifkathechis7310 Liking my own comments? How is crying to ask a question?
What a time
The community has min/maxed everything to oblivion.
If ICC comes out with all bosses unlocked and not buffed, 25H will be cleared day 1 no doubt.
Nobody doubts that
I left because of the WoW Token. But mostly because they don’t have Dungeon Finder. If they don’t add the dungeon finder when they release ICC I will be missing out.
cry baby
Token's been great for me, someone who knows how to generate gold via professions/AH. I can play for free for years at this point if I want to.
After playing classic Wrath, I no longer believe the WC3 Arthas story ending was what started the decline. It just simply does not feel as rewarding to play as Vanilla and TBC were.
I am speechless on why blizz doesnt just ask the community how they should approach. what about those surveys we had for classic? lack of communication is the reason for everything being bad about a game, just ask the players and then act accordingly.
YoU tHiNk YoU dO bUt You DoN't
Because you'll get an incoherent answer. No-one wants the same thing. Some people actively want to deny other people things they want. And compromises mean few people are truly satisfied. So you ignore the outlaying opinions, let them quit, keep the core who want to keep playing.
@@andromidius Just ignore those who deny sh!t and focus on those who suggest sh!t
and then poll the suggestions
Stop making excuses for _'youthinkyoudobutyoudont"
Can someone tell me if they already implemented RDF ? If not then i still out of Wrath, i love playing as healer and healer only and dont see myself leveling all again just to casually find a group to heal while sufferig to do quests.
They haven't.
we also had sims back then
Its fun on private servers
Just need wcl to be our savior and partition out people that use the buff.
If they give the zone buff on release i wont be playing. Current phase is a joke and i don't understand why they think faceroll is compelling on the hardest difficulty
Throne of Thunder >>>> ICC
MoP waiting room.
MOP HYPE!!
MoP had many positives, but many more negatives that outweighed the positives. Also it's not fair to compare, Cataclysm was a huge step in dungeon and raid boss mechanical depth, complexity and overall quality and MoP outside of Tier14 was on par with Cata(if not slightly better). WoD was the next big step in raid and dungeon boss mechanics.
i'm so hyped for mop classic, ngl
@@Tomkraal me too, but it's my least favorite expansion, I hope they fix it up, because MoP has the potential to be excellent, but has too many downsides.
Though I doubt they will improve the dungeons and Tier14 raids.
Is it too late to level a paladin for ICC
No
you're not getting smourne or tiny abom, fat boy
the only buff i need for icc is my tailplug
Buff obviously shouldn't be added until RS release.
Down lich king until it gets boring then take a break. Near 0 reason to work on maxing out since it all becomes super useless in Cataclysm and the insane stat increase of gear.
agree, shadowmourne was quickly replaced by a blue quest item at lvl 81 LOL
I think they should drop it unbuffed
RMT will get even more out of control, at this point i´m only disappointed that i quit some months ago and didnt jump on the GDKP wagon to make serious bank...
I hope we don't get the buff for ICC this time round. HC will die, as you say, day one. It's the final raid, it should be hard, we have easier 258 gear from ToGC when you get a few slots of 264 gear and 245 gear from the new gamma currency.
I like your idea of more shards depending on buff
There should be no Buff available at least for 2 months. ICC bosses should be buffed to make the raid harder. The patch should last for 1 year before they release Cata. This is the best raid of WoW, let us enjoy it. If we get LOD week 1, it will be boring and unchallenging.
you couldn't turn the buff back on again after turning it off during retail wotlk. people would grief in pugs, it was a disaster
ICC will be the same as Ulduar. Fun for about 3 weeks and then everyone will realize how boring it is to farm.