For the repeating questions: - This was filmed 2 weeks ago. As much as Robert and I both love the 675LT, I'm sure we'd fight over driving our new GR Yaris instead if we had the opportunity. (Video was filmed before we got the car). - Yes, the LT got a crack in the windscreen. For 2 years already! Here is when it happened, if you're new you should really check out this video: ruclips.net/video/qG2if84cqvM/видео.html
I must say you went really fast through the Herpelderp. And really held good speed through the Hørkelkuchen, all through to the Hagenberkweklaufehefen.
They looked like they are working.. I can imagine from the seat its a different feeling.. I know I can feel when my NT01s are getting to that point.. this actually made me change wheels due to cold weather in America thanks for the reminder..lol.. great stuff guys
Tirereviews had some reviews on the Trofeo R and the Cup 2. Also (don‘t remember the name) a german youtuber with a GT3 tested the Trofeo R on his car and had the experience the other way around. Trofeo R seems to be the tire with softer sidewalls, so it acts more as a part of the suspension than the Cup 2. So the whole steering and damping has to be more stiff and direct with the Trofeo R, thats maybe why you guys felt not comfortable. Car seems to be overdamped with this tire... Might be a reason! Anyhow, great video 😍
Thats why tires are developed with and for specific cars in mind. McLaren mostly feel good with Pirelli (mostly) or Toyo's or Dunlop slick. Thats alot of sliding, makes it look like the LT is off balance.
When Chris Harris did his famous P1/Laf/918 head to head around Portimao, there was a mix between the Cup 2 and the Trof. The Cup got binned so all cars could be on the same tyre, in his opinion the best. The Trofeo.
Good info! Too bad you didn't try the revised "Cup2 Connects" (like a Cup 2.5 revision), hard to find any good test data on them so far, Michelin says its faster and stiffer sidewalls vs Cup 2 but no proper tests yet... Thanks for great informative content as always!
Hi Misha, not all Cup2 are created equal. Porsche marked Cup2s are significantly tuned for dry and track (also tuned for the car it's supposed to be mounted on), compared to normal broad market unmarked tires. If Robert bought unmarked tires, they are on a more "road" use compromise.
Hi Misha.. Great onboard lap with Robert! Love his driving skills (eg smooth & precise ) Hmm not all tyres are what they hyped up to be huh? Absolutely LOVE the McLaren💕. Thanx 4 sharing Misha, Godbless & hava g'day 🙂
Finally the 675LT makes an appearance. It should be featured more regularly. Interesting to know that these tyres don't really work on this car. One would assume that a tyre like the Cup 2 would be brilliant on any supercar. The roof scoop sounds though...
Always a joy to watch. Goodyear have stepped up their game with the latest F1 Supersport series tires. Maybe the Supersport R would be a nice fit. Cheers.
either the tyre is overheating or the side wall is weak, you need to look at your tyre pressures, some tyres work better when they are a bit more inflated than you would like them to be
Reeves Callaway has a great quote that essentially states, "Everything about a car is there to make the tires work." Is there something intrinsic about the McLaren's suspension or chassis that is not "switching on" the Michelin Cup 2 tire? Also, do you ever check tire temps with a pyrometer to be sure the tire is being utilized correctly across the entire surface?
Tyre dealer said you have to have toyos to replace a set of Bridgestone SO2 with carbon fibre sidewalls. A civic vti areodeck with factory body kit. I drove out of dealer and straight back they where crap. So know how you feel Robert
Is the cold weather possibly a factor in the performance of the tire? It would only make sense. It looks really miserable that day. I wonder if you guys have had those tires on the car during a warm day?
did you put on PSC2's with homologation for other car manufacturer? usually cars like you drive have specifically developed tyres in cooperation between car and tyre manufacturer and that ends in very different final product in same dimension than non(or different)-homologated tyre. dimension, SI, LI, looks and the name are the same but construction and compound is pretty different. also, geometry of a car that is good for OE tyre is very likely not good for others + dimensions (overall diameter particularly) can confuse electronics if not within permitted tolerances even satisfying ETRTO standards.
Great video.. is it possible the extra tire movement is due to tire pressures. I know from experience the cup 2 tires get very squirmy at pressures above 34 psi and I usually keep them around 30 psi (hot pressure) to stay planted which means I start the laps at 21 to 23 psi to hit these targets and often had to bleed some more air to keep them closer to 30 psi. Just curious what tire pressures Robert had during his 1st session. Mark
Interesting findings regarding the highly regarded Cup2, that it doesn’t work on the 675, what tyres would you recommend for dry track? The OE Trofeo R or Nankang that I believe you have used? Thanks for the insight
PS4S's are way better than P-Zero's on those cars, I found that out when I changed and scared myself at how much better it handled. Odd at the track level you didn't find that, I've talked to others who say Cup 2's are better on theirs. Perhaps the difference is in the suspension geometry, or tire pressures. I know actual tire dimensions are different for the same size.
From when is this video? Are you guys allowed to drive on the track when it's closed for Touristenfahrten? I am asking since they did not open it since 22.11.20
Well but the question is what cup 2 did he use? N1? Ferrari cup 2? General cup 2? There are a few options for the 675lt what was the recommended cup 2 submodel and what did Robert used?
Okay Robert, I get your subtle hint that I must've forgotten a car or two when commenting under one of your recent videos. You remember, the giveaway (hope this persuades people to subscribe to @RobertMitchell😆) great video Misha! Thanks guys
Curious result. I assume you guys factored in temperature. I’ve found running Cup2s that getting heat into them when the tarmac is cold can be a challenge. Obviously of the tire is cold it’s gonna have shit for grip. Maybe the Trofeo’s are a better tire in cold weather?
So, did you guys experiment enough to determine what tyre is most suited for the McLaren 675LT? Just curious 🤨 , I know that the Michelin Cup 2’s are considered by many drivers to be the ultimate high performance tyre. For the average enthusiast out here it certainly makes sense to trust in the pros such as yourself to give honest assessments of equipment and invest our precious resources in what appears to be the best for our personal situations!! Great job guys !! Certainly enjoyed the presentation and opinions expressed ... 😊😊!
isn't that one of the possible downsides of the stiffer sidewalls versus Trofeo R? The sidewall flex makes it so you as a driver don't need to be as smooth?
It's funny because I would have assumed that the Cup 2 are better as well. It just goes to show that different chassis configurations work well with different tires.
how would that affect the grip of the tyre? There might be minimal minimal differences (perhaps due to camber or toe in but unless its extreme its unimportant) but no manufacturer cannot afford such differences between configs given how many people there are with different cars and wishes. Grip is grip, traction is traction. And this isnt a Veyron, these tyres arent made specifically for one single car. A good quality tyre is a good quality tyre.
@@ChopStickZero Mclaren designs and tests their cars on Trofeos. It could be from the way the suspension is configured. the way the chassis moves, and the tire compound. On my FK8 the Cup 2 feels "perfect". From the way it can be positioned throughout a corner and the extreme grip. It's also much more neutral handling than the Contis I had before.
@@cosminmihu9963 Can you please explain to me and be specific how what you say affects traction and grip? The thing that matters 99% is the compound, everything else is miniscule and would not acccount for such big differences as they're having here. Or tell me how?
Hi Misha, love the work you and Robert is putting on. Your content very helpful for those that owns similar type vehicles who tracks. Would you please share your track aliment for the 720s? I left a similar comment to Robert but I suppose the messages just flooded in and got washed away. Thank you!
interesting. The lap didn't look particular fun. The steering looked a bit non-linear (especially start of the lap), or like a irregular force feedback . Or is that the camera and the stabilization at work? Good looking car, though.
Sidewall maybe? McLarens are usually very stiff, so they (should) work better with a softer sidewall (Trofeo). Maybe the Cups are too stiff for the already very stiff 675 (?)
Is it possible that you just need to change your driving style with this car on these tyres? The same thing happens to me on my track bike, change of tyres affect how early or late I need to apex.
Damn you guys have a cracked windscreen, and I thought it's more a problem here in North Europe. Very often Studded tires let their spikes fly in the air . . .
I have argued in the past that certain tires/tyres work better on certain cars, I don't fully understand the physics off it, but have at a much lower performance level proved it myself.. I can kind of relate it to my experience driving a Subaru Imprezza P1 slowly, then driving it quickly on a lesser tire, the car hated the so called better tire at slow speed, and ever so slightly better when on it.
You guys should really have a deep dive in the world of Michelin tyres, all the different cup2 oem variations are very confusing and makes it almost impossible to choose a cup2 that works on your own car, because all the Michelin tires are different...and even the promised cup2 connect doesn't do the job right. For example, the Gt3r N2 marked cup 2 is equal to Trofeos in speed, but normal cup2s for let say an m2 is alot slower and totally different... I hate this fact that Michelin haven't given us a really good trackday tire across the range since the cup 1 och Cup +. Best regards from Sweden!
I have to preface it with the fact that I am in no way an expert and don't know a lot about this so I could be wrong, but could the Cup 2 be a tire that benefits from having more weight pressing on it compared to the Trofeo? AFAIK, the Trofeo has a lower treadwear than the Cup 2. Therefore it would be reasonable to assume that it has harder compound that requires more energy to get it up to optimal temperature, which isn't an issue in a heavier GT2, but is an issue in a lighter 675LT. Therefore by the time it would have optimal temperature with the McLaren it would already be worn and not as optimal as a new tire. I guess one way to test that theory would be to use tirewarmers and put pre warmed tires on McLaren and see how it does then. But I have to repeat, not an expert, just thinking out loud based on the limited knowledge I have, at close to 4 A.M. no less. P.S.I knew Tom had a Rolex Air-King this whole time (us watch guys can spot things like that from tiniest of details), this video just confirmed it with certainty.
For the repeating questions:
- This was filmed 2 weeks ago. As much as Robert and I both love the 675LT, I'm sure we'd fight over driving our new GR Yaris instead if we had the opportunity. (Video was filmed before we got the car).
- Yes, the LT got a crack in the windscreen. For 2 years already! Here is when it happened, if you're new you should really check out this video: ruclips.net/video/qG2if84cqvM/видео.html
Oh, that is actually windshield cracked, I thought it was some odd reflection.
I Will drop by some time if possible i am allmost every year on the ring thx for such cool content on your channel
hey Misha i didn't mind the sound at all!!!
For repeated questions throughout the comment section, which version of Cup 2 did you put on the 675LT? What was the hot tire pressure?
How do you pass MOT with the cracked windshield?
It's a tough life you boys lead.
I guess it is true that not all tyres work on all cars, good job no brand deal stops you fitting the right tyre for the right car 😀
McLaren optional extras:
- Remove stereo for extra cash
- Remove A/C for extra cash
- Standard windscreen thickness for "free"?
I must say you went really fast through the Herpelderp. And really held good speed through the Hørkelkuchen, all through to the Hagenberkweklaufehefen.
🤣
It's Hagenberkweklaufehebleffenfleffenfen everyone knows that name
@@jurredevries8763
Yes. but the pros call it "Hagenberkweklaufehefen" for short.
Always love the blow-off valve (?) sounds of the 675LT!
3:53 that was a real clubsport S, its good seeing them on the track :)
Love the sound of the 675LT, it’s my favourite Mac.
They looked like they are working.. I can imagine from the seat its a different feeling.. I know I can feel when my NT01s are getting to that point.. this actually made me change wheels due to cold weather in America thanks for the reminder..lol.. great stuff guys
Tirereviews had some reviews on the Trofeo R and the Cup 2.
Also (don‘t remember the name) a german youtuber with a GT3 tested the Trofeo R on his car and had the experience the other way around.
Trofeo R seems to be the tire with softer sidewalls, so it acts more as a part of the suspension than the Cup 2.
So the whole steering and damping has to be more stiff and direct with the Trofeo R, thats maybe why you guys felt not comfortable.
Car seems to be overdamped with this tire...
Might be a reason! Anyhow, great video 😍
The sound of that thing is just great!
Always great to see Mr Apex & Mr Nürnburgring doing lap together.
I had a set of those on my RWD 991 as well. They need wearing in, trust me. Not an issue on the MR. More so on the Mclaren is my guess.
The engine sound in this car is vicious. Love it
O yes my favorite car is back on the channel. This thing had the perfect spec.
Thats why tires are developed with and for specific cars in mind. McLaren mostly feel good with Pirelli (mostly) or Toyo's or Dunlop slick. Thats alot of sliding, makes it look like the LT is off balance.
Still the best looking Mclaren out there 👍
F1 is better
Got a small flashback to yesterday's vid in the Karussell, for a second I was like, I have seen that before. Thanks for the daily uploads!
When Chris Harris did his famous P1/Laf/918 head to head around Portimao, there was a mix between the Cup 2 and the Trof. The Cup got binned so all cars could be on the same tyre, in his opinion the best. The Trofeo.
Brilliant video ... love the 675LT
It wouldn't be a mclaren without a cracked windshield.
Cracklaren. 😁
What would it be without a cracked windscreen, then?
McCracken 🤣
Just love that "heart rate" alert over the blowoff valve noise...💪💪👌
Good info! Too bad you didn't try the revised "Cup2 Connects" (like a Cup 2.5 revision), hard to find any good test data on them so far, Michelin says its faster and stiffer sidewalls vs Cup 2 but no proper tests yet... Thanks for great informative content as always!
Hi Misha, not all Cup2 are created equal. Porsche marked Cup2s are significantly tuned for dry and track (also tuned for the car it's supposed to be mounted on), compared to normal broad market unmarked tires.
If Robert bought unmarked tires, they are on a more "road" use compromise.
Can it be too cold for the Cup 2's to perform?
Yes and no. Other tyres have no issue with it. Same as Cup2s work on other cars in these temps.
@@mgcharoudin So the Trofeo's are more "compatible" with the McLaren.
@@RoaldHemel35 that's McLaren's tyre, so yes. But then again, AR-1s perform even better.
@@mgcharoudin Have you put AR-1s on a Maca?
@@Jdmjunkie001 yes
Hi Misha..
Great onboard lap with Robert!
Love his driving skills (eg smooth & precise )
Hmm not all tyres are what they hyped up to be huh?
Absolutely LOVE the McLaren💕.
Thanx 4 sharing Misha, Godbless & hava g'day 🙂
Thank you guys that was a fun lap !
Finally the 675LT makes an appearance. It should be featured more regularly. Interesting to know that these tyres don't really work on this car. One would assume that a tyre like the Cup 2 would be brilliant on any supercar. The roof scoop sounds though...
Always a joy to watch. Goodyear have stepped up their game with the latest F1 Supersport series tires. Maybe the Supersport R would be a nice fit. Cheers.
either the tyre is overheating or the side wall is weak, you need to look at your tyre pressures, some tyres work better when they are a bit more inflated than you would like them to be
One of the best car. 👌🔥❤
Reeves Callaway has a great quote that essentially states, "Everything about a car is there to make the tires work." Is there something intrinsic about the McLaren's suspension or chassis that is not "switching on" the Michelin Cup 2 tire? Also, do you ever check tire temps with a pyrometer to be sure the tire is being utilized correctly across the entire surface?
How cold was it? Was the tire broken in properly? - release gel worn off Also since the tire is not an R was it shaved?
675lt is 1 of my favourite mclarens cheers steve 👍 😀
Tyre dealer said you have to have toyos to replace a set of Bridgestone SO2 with carbon fibre sidewalls. A civic vti areodeck with factory body kit. I drove out of dealer and straight back they where crap. So know how you feel Robert
Its the weather. Retest on a 25+ degree day
Is the cold weather possibly a factor in the performance of the tire? It would only make sense. It looks really miserable that day. I wonder if you guys have had those tires on the car during a warm day?
did you put on PSC2's with homologation for other car manufacturer? usually cars like you drive have specifically developed tyres in cooperation between car and tyre manufacturer and that ends in very different final product in same dimension than non(or different)-homologated tyre. dimension, SI, LI, looks and the name are the same but construction and compound is pretty different. also, geometry of a car that is good for OE tyre is very likely not good for others + dimensions (overall diameter particularly) can confuse electronics if not within permitted tolerances even satisfying ETRTO standards.
I really like the orange on the 675LT
Engine sound is amazing.
Great video.. is it possible the extra tire movement is due to tire pressures. I know from experience the cup 2 tires get very squirmy at pressures above 34 psi and I usually keep them around 30 psi (hot pressure) to stay planted which means I start the laps at 21 to 23 psi to hit these targets and often had to bleed some more air to keep them closer to 30 psi. Just curious what tire pressures Robert had during his 1st session. Mark
i would think sitting upright in the bucket seats might be okay for their backs?
Interesting findings regarding the highly regarded Cup2, that it doesn’t work on the 675, what tyres would you recommend for dry track? The OE Trofeo R or Nankang that I believe you have used?
Thanks for the insight
PS4S's are way better than P-Zero's on those cars, I found that out when I changed and scared myself at how much better it handled. Odd at the track level you didn't find that, I've talked to others who say Cup 2's are better on theirs. Perhaps the difference is in the suspension geometry, or tire pressures. I know actual tire dimensions are different for the same size.
I noticed that as the tires got warmer you did get braver
Robert beast of a driver at Nürburgring, what's his Best time at the ring?
Don´t care about the rear or back micro of the GoPro! This car sounds amazing from every direction!
Summer tires dont bite very well at near wintery temperature conditions of 4 degC
From when is this video? Are you guys allowed to drive on the track when it's closed for Touristenfahrten? I am asking since they did not open it since 22.11.20
2 weeks old, filmed during TF :)
Brilliant, zero ego and maximum enjoyment 👍🤓👍
Well but the question is what cup 2 did he use? N1? Ferrari cup 2? General cup 2? There are a few options for the 675lt what was the recommended cup 2 submodel and what did Robert used?
I like the noise of the 675 more than the 620R.
Oh, part of this video was in yesterday's vlog.
I was wonder why it felt familiar.
Correct!
Okay Robert, I get your subtle hint that I must've forgotten a car or two when commenting under one of your recent videos. You remember, the giveaway (hope this persuades people to subscribe to @RobertMitchell😆) great video Misha! Thanks guys
So whats the beebing sound from the car? Just curious :)
Dit rondje komt bekent voor, weer die Martin.
I thought you guys sold the 675LT. This car has sooooo much character.
Nope hadn’t even considered selling this car
So whats the temp? Sounds like the temps are too low.
who is faster, the 600lt or the 675lt?
Curious result. I assume you guys factored in temperature. I’ve found running Cup2s that getting heat into them when the tarmac is cold can be a challenge. Obviously of the tire is cold it’s gonna have shit for grip. Maybe the Trofeo’s are a better tire in cold weather?
Drive my 620 on the Trofeo same day. Have 1000 laps in the orange car in all conditions
So what about the Cup 2 R?
I am going to get into the 620R which has the Teofeo R “in a minute”. (2:59)
So, did you guys experiment enough to determine what tyre is most suited for the McLaren 675LT? Just curious 🤨 , I know that the Michelin Cup 2’s are considered by many drivers to be the ultimate high performance tyre. For the average enthusiast out here it certainly makes sense to trust in the pros such as yourself to give honest assessments of equipment and invest our precious resources in what appears to be the best for our personal situations!! Great job guys !! Certainly enjoyed the presentation and opinions expressed ... 😊😊!
Good stuff, thanks guys! :)
Sound was quite good I would say, it sound very nice this car. Ready for some SIM laps =)
isn't that one of the possible downsides of the stiffer sidewalls versus Trofeo R? The sidewall flex makes it so you as a driver don't need to be as smooth?
Apologies if I missed it but did you experiment with tyre (tire 😝) pressures at all?
It's funny because I would have assumed that the Cup 2 are better as well. It just goes to show that different chassis configurations work well with different tires.
how would that affect the grip of the tyre? There might be minimal minimal differences (perhaps due to camber or toe in but unless its extreme its unimportant) but no manufacturer cannot afford such differences between configs given how many people there are with different cars and wishes. Grip is grip, traction is traction. And this isnt a Veyron, these tyres arent made specifically for one single car. A good quality tyre is a good quality tyre.
@@ChopStickZero Mclaren designs and tests their cars on Trofeos. It could be from the way the suspension is configured. the way the chassis moves, and the tire compound. On my FK8 the Cup 2 feels "perfect". From the way it can be positioned throughout a corner and the extreme grip. It's also much more neutral handling than the Contis I had before.
@@cosminmihu9963 Can you please explain to me and be specific how what you say affects traction and grip? The thing that matters 99% is the compound, everything else is miniscule and would not acccount for such big differences as they're having here. Or tell me how?
For some reason, I get déjà vu watching this video. But excellent video regardless :D
Interesting insights... Thanks.
What about Trofeos on the GT2RS? 🤯
Wait since when did you still have that car? I thought it was long since replaced by other cars.
No I’ve never even Consider selling this car.
The white golf was so funny !
Hi Misha, love the work you and Robert is putting on. Your content very helpful for those that owns similar type vehicles who tracks. Would you please share your track aliment for the 720s? I left a similar comment to Robert but I suppose the messages just flooded in and got washed away. Thank you!
interesting. The lap didn't look particular fun.
The steering looked a bit non-linear (especially start of the lap), or like a irregular force feedback . Or is that the camera and the stabilization at work? Good looking car, though.
Possibly the latter
Sidewall maybe? McLarens are usually very stiff, so they (should) work better with a softer sidewall (Trofeo). Maybe the Cups are too stiff for the already very stiff 675 (?)
You should try to run it with a bit lower pressure compared to Trofeo Rs. What was the hot pressure you used?
Two bar hot.
Tyre pressures maybe ? Might need more.
I wonder if you try them again during the summer
Surely!
Oh my... The symphony...
Is it possible that you just need to change your driving style with this car on these tyres?
The same thing happens to me on my track bike, change of tyres affect how early or late I need to apex.
I guess it’s not even a option OEM tyre for the mclaren. Maybe it’s a harder compound which was the problem on the pista initially?
It isn't correct!
That cracked Windscreen 😭😭
Damn you guys have a cracked windscreen, and I thought it's more a problem here in North Europe. Very often Studded tires let their spikes fly in the air . . .
I have argued in the past that certain tires/tyres work better on certain cars, I don't fully understand the physics off it, but have at a much lower performance level proved it myself..
I can kind of relate it to my experience driving a Subaru Imprezza P1 slowly, then driving it quickly on a lesser tire, the car hated the so called better tire at slow speed, and ever so slightly better when on it.
You guys should really have a deep dive in the world of Michelin tyres, all the different cup2 oem variations are very confusing and makes it almost impossible to choose a cup2 that works on your own car, because all the Michelin tires are different...and even the promised cup2 connect doesn't do the job right.
For example, the Gt3r N2 marked cup 2 is equal to Trofeos in speed, but normal cup2s for let say an m2 is alot slower and totally different...
I hate this fact that Michelin haven't given us a really good trackday tire across the range since the cup 1 och Cup +.
Best regards from Sweden!
Misha, how come Robert doesn't let you taxi the McLaren & Porsche GT2?
Hopefully the cup 2 can hold up well I'm sure it will👍
misha you are greatttttt👍🥰
That engine love to rev😍
Crack in windscreen ?? Expensive to replace?
Did you try to compete with the 675lt against an gt2rs or 488 pista/f8 like roll races in the autobahn ?
We don't do these type of things around here.
I have to preface it with the fact that I am in no way an expert and don't know a lot about this so I could be wrong, but could the Cup 2 be a tire that benefits from having more weight pressing on it compared to the Trofeo? AFAIK, the Trofeo has a lower treadwear than the Cup 2. Therefore it would be reasonable to assume that it has harder compound that requires more energy to get it up to optimal temperature, which isn't an issue in a heavier GT2, but is an issue in a lighter 675LT. Therefore by the time it would have optimal temperature with the McLaren it would already be worn and not as optimal as a new tire. I guess one way to test that theory would be to use tirewarmers and put pre warmed tires on McLaren and see how it does then. But I have to repeat, not an expert, just thinking out loud based on the limited knowledge I have, at close to 4 A.M. no less.
P.S.I knew Tom had a Rolex Air-King this whole time (us watch guys can spot things like that from tiniest of details), this video just confirmed it with certainty.
Good video
Good comment
Was that a Tier 1 review of a Tier 2 tyre, at least for this application?
We gotta ask McLaren!
Hey Robert .. stand aside and let Misha have a crack at the LT 👍
Why is the driver sat so close to the wheel?
Misha: Laps with the Yaris ???
Misha that’s too much car for you 😂😂😂
As mush as the Ring is a public 'road', do a lot of people use it as "just" a road? Or is it mostly people using it for fun?
Nobody uses it as a normal road besause it leads nowhere. The fact that it's a public road just defines the rules used on it
too cold for the tires? I am learning the 'Ring from watching these videos. o.o