After 1,000 Years - An Orthodox Examination of Catholicism
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- Опубликовано: 5 сен 2024
- The Orthodox Ethos Extended Podcast
Is the Pope Catholic? Is Catholicism Orthodox? Is the Church Roman? And is Roman Latin? . . . These and many other questions are answered in this extended podcast.
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Presentation:
6:00 start
11:52 The Eighth Ecumenical Council
16:58 This Council was Recognized by Rome for 200 Years!
19:37 How did it happen that Rome, now dominated by the Franks, came to abolish an Ecumenical Council?
26:10 The Horos of the Eighth Ecumenical Council
31:38 The Schism didn't start in 1054
40:40 Was there Universal Primacy of the Pope in the First Millennium?
47:58 The Schism: Deviations of the West from Holy Tradition
50:18 1075-1175: West "Profoundly Altered"
53:47 1075-1175: Transitions in the West
1:00:04 The West Chose Rationalism over Hesychasm
1:04:21 Initiation by the Uninitiated: Unorthodox teaching on Baptismal Minister
1:06:38 Disintegration of the Unity of the Mysteries in the West
1:10:14 The End of Baptism in the West
1:14:15 The Spirituality of Francis of Assisi
1:19:29 The Stigmata of Francis of Assisi
1:27:23 The Teaching that Grace is Created
1:31:33 The Infallibility of the Pope
1:42:24 Bishop Barron: Why the Orthodox Church is not the True Church
1:50:43 Scott Hahn on Why he Didn't Become Orthodox
2:05:01 Union is Impossible without Repentance
2:08:40 For Further Study
Answering Questions:
2:11:10 The Miracles of Western Saints
2:14:14 Advice for desiring persons who live far away from any Orthodox Churches
2:15:53 Does the head have to be completely immersed during Baptism?
2:19:02 Is Baptism still necessary for Roman Catholic converts?
2:25:05 Doesn't the view of Papal Infallibility fundamentally change the view of Human Anthropology itself?
2:28:13 Do souls go directly to Heaven or Hell when they die?
2:31:10 What is the point of synods in the Catholic Church if the Pope is Infallible?
2:32:18 Has the Church fallen if a Bishop has professed mortal sins?
2:34:08 What is wrong with unleavened bread for the Eucharist?
2:35:45 When was the Orthodox Church at its peak in avoiding compromise?
2:38:00 Must only the Seven Ecumenical Councils be embraced?
2:39:09 Do Orthodoxy and Catholicism share the same canons?
2:40:18 Do the Heterodox have Christ in any sense or are they on the same level as Pagans?
2:42:56 The Patriarch of Constantinople put an Anathema on revolting Greeks. Has this been lifted?
2:45:58 Was the Pope considered the first among equals before being excommunicated?
2:48:02 Is it wrong to call the Patriarch of Constantinople Ecumenical in regards to what Saint Gregory said?
2:49:17 My Godfather left Orthodoxy. Is he still my Godfather?
2:50:31 How would you respond to someone asking when the Schism happened? When did grace leave the Roman Catholics?
2:52:32 I am in the Antiochian Orthodox Church. Can I be Baptized by a Russian Orthodox priest while remaining in the church I am currently in?
2:53:23 Can priests use the argument that the Didache recommends non immersion Baptisms?
2:54:27 How flexible is Canon Law?
2:55:54 Do we recognize valid holy orders with Roman Catholics?
2:58:14 How does one get a new God Parent after they had Apostatized?
2:59:54 Were there any Orthodox Saint street-preachers? What is the Orthodox take on preaching on the street?
3:02:32 Wouldn't the Catholic idea of Created Grace completely invalidate the Eucharist?
3:04:21 How is it that more Christians followed the Pope than Orthodoxy?
3:06:31 Baptism in a Baptist church?
Pn this! 😀
@@tsasuyedaabsolutely
Thank you so very much.
Thank you
Irish Catholic born and bred.
Orthodox by choice. Best decision of my life.
Avoid the 1054 elevator pitch when speaking with Catholics.
Avoid the anti-pope pitch when speaking with Protestants.
Cultivate ( emphasize ) a "THEOLOGY of BEAUTY" in speaking with either. I wept the first time I walked into a Byzantine Church: from the icons, to the incense, Liturgy and music. Every Catholic says exactly the same thing that I did: " ... this is the way is used to be ... " .
Beauty attracts us. Beauty pervades and binds us. Conversions will be almost effortless.
It is Beauty that will dissipate the darkness of the current age, and save us.
Amen. Celtic Christianity was Orthodoxy! Beauty WILL save the world!
I totally agree with you mate. Could not have expressed myself better. If you ever visit the Balkans, especially Albania, I will be honoured to greet you and show you the placd.
Celtic christianity is a myth partly created by Anglicans with romantic notions about the past. The Christians in Ireland were in communion with Rome. You can argue that Rome now is not what is was then, but don't hide in a comforting myth about "Celtic Christianity" which is denied by all serious scholars.
@@stevenhensley9160 Anything before the Great Schism was Orthodox. So yes they were Orthodox before the newly formed Roman Communion took hold.
@@WebCitizen Holy Orthodoxy can't be false.
As a Catholic, I learned a great deal from this presentation. There was no caricature of Catholicism, or choosing our worst moments and worst representatives to make us look bad. It was true and fair, and answered well the question "Where did we go wrong?" As Father points out, it started long before Vatican 2, which is merely the latest consequence of decisions made many centuries ago. I am deeply grateful for this thoughtful presentation which was given in a spirit of Christian charity.
There is One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church! The one that maintained the Truth and Catholicity is the Orthodox Church.
Thank you Father. I am a convert to Eastern Orthodoxy, Chrismated in a local OCA parish. I was raised Roman Catholic. I have fallen in love with the truth of the East. I can feel a pull at times toward my familial faith, by habit. I work in Public health and you learn that change in habits are driven by knowledge. Thank you for this knowledge. It has made me stronger in Orthodoxy. May Lord Have Mercy and also Bless You. The Holy Spirit is working through you. Thank you for this beauty and truth.
Yes, at first my protestant beliefs always thumped against new things I was learning in Orthodoxy, but over time, it became easier and easier to believe in the Orthodox dogmas.
I'm at a loss for words, for both the joy of finding you and the pain of the error that I and my family and ancestors were taught. When the pandemic hit, and even many years before I dabbled in search for the history and truth of the faith, I went on a quest of sorts to really dig out what was the church like in the early early years. I was married for 25yrs to a Jewish man and always felt this connection to the Jewish faith, but it never seemed complete. I always knew it was Jesus and believed that the Roman Catholic faith was that missing link, but even being taught THAT, there was this nagging something I couldn't put my finger on, that annoyed me. I had a stroke in 07 and too long to go into here, but that lead me to learning shamanism and indigenous spiritual beliefs, which lead me to spiritualism which is where I stopped, realizing it was a dead end. (I know that I experienced the presence of Angels and The Lord upon waking up on the floor when I had my stroke. There was this blanket of love and peace that there are no words for, literally no words, to describe. after recovering going to Mass was torture. It was awful! I could feel that there was just no reverence anymore or AWE of The Lord. No mystery. Then like I said when the pandemic hit and we were locked down, I went on my quest. Watching this video, especially towards the end, confirmed what I have been learning in watching other Orthodox videos teachings. It also explained how we the Roman Rite got here. THANK YOU.! My spirit is at peace and it is closer to the peace I felt that night waking up on the floor, then I have ever found. There are no words to describe it, so that's how I know it. I am sorry this is so long, but now I thirst. Thirst for more of this peace, truth and love. God Bless you and your journey and calling.
It is a joy to serve you and many others, as we struggle to not only present the Truth (with a capital T), Who is Christ, but also to unite ourselves to Him and all those who are in Him, and will be in Him, in the Body of Christ. Good struggles! May you continue to go deeper! May you gain strength from the Saints and confessors of the Truth to endure in patient perseverance until the end, to unite yourself to the Christ in His Body before your soul departs from your body and stands before the Dread Judgement Seat of Christ. God bless you! Let us know how we can help you on your journey. We have a reading list on our site - orthodoxethos.com - and we have question and answer sessions every Thursday evening via our Patreon/Crowdcast platform at patreon.com/frpeterheers.
May God bless you. ☦ 🌹 That was a joy to read! You are recovered fully from your stroke now?
Welcome Home!
@@Jokerfuel-sz8ii Believe it or not, your experience of the Orthodox Church is your experience and not everyone else’s.
@@Jokerfuel-sz8ii Who is disparaging millions of believers? Not Orthodox Ethos. When we refer to Catholicism, we focus on those teachings, dogmas and practices that are not consistent with Revelation and the apostolic faith. We don’t focus on one’s subjective experiences.
The irony of the whole "Orthodoxy is ethnic" criticism is that within Catholicism you not only have different groups with different ethnic identities but different groups with different theologies that are totally at odds with one another. You can venerate Nestorius and be in Communion with the Pope of Rome today.
Yes, this is an important point which I should have brought up. Thank you!
Good point on the ethnic divides. We forget that the Irish and Italians all had different neighborhoods and different priests and it was even dangerous for them to intermarry. Just because you don't see that today doesn't mean it hasn't existed in Rome's past.
Eastern catholics prove that they only really care about submitting to the Pope as opposed to doctrinal unity
If you mean Chaldean and Syro-Malabar Caths, yes they employ the Liturgy of Nestorius (5 times a year)- which wasn't even composed by him. But since both the churches are heavily Latinized - Nestorius is not venerated. And the churches funtion as a quasi Roman church practically.
@@user-db5lf3kf3d this is a very superficial argument. Maybe there's only one Greek church within 300 miles of you, so what? What does that have to do with the Truth? And if you had wanted to convert to Roman Catholicism in the 19th century in America, all you would have found was ethnic parishes and you could have made the same argument that you're making now. I go to a very heavily Russian parish and I have been welcomed and embraced by everyone there, they even made me the Sunday school teacher. Complaining about your personal experiences doesn't really have anything to do with the question of what the true faith is. I don't think you'd accept as a strong argument if someone said, "a Roman Catholic priest was mean to me, therefor Roman Catholicism isn't true".
6th Century, Roman Pope Saint Gregory; "I say it without the least hesitation, whoever calls himself the universal bishop, or desires this title, is, by his pride, the precursor of Antichrist, because he thus attempts to raise himself above the other."
Quick question. Why is he, a pope, recognized as a Saint in the EO church? Just looking to grow my knowledge. Also, I think it's cool that he is, just read his Wikipedia and he seemed quite incredible as a christian and a leader. Blessed indeed
He is recognised as a Saint in the EO Church because for the first roughly 1000 years we were the same Church. So essentially the EO and the RC Church have the same set of us Saints right up to the great schism (around 1054) and actually a little after because even the schism took time to really filter beyond the initial bishops that excomunicated each other. I hope this helps. Blessings. @@fnfn9199
@@fnfn9199he was a bishop in the pre-schism, undivided church. St. Gregory the Great, St. Leo, St. Patrick, St. Jerome, etc., are all regarded as Orthodox Saints. The reverse is also true, with the RCC venerating St.Basil, St. Athanasius, and St.Chrysostom.
Thank you for this content Fr Heers! I almost converted to Catholicism but by Gods grace I discovered the beauty of the Orthodox Church and was chrismated in April of this last year. Your videos have been very influential in my spiritual growth. In all of the years that I was not a Protestant, I did not experience the spiritual growth that I have as an Orthodox Christian.
What you say about how the church embraces and sanctifies each culture resonates with me. Orthodoxy is growing faster than any other religion in Ireland right now, albeit from very small numbers. Those of us who are native attend Greek, Romanian, Russian or Antiochian churches formed to minister to immigrants but we did have a long history of Orthodoxy and were Romanised a couple of centuries after the rest of the west. I pray that there may be a great revival here but I suppose we must go about re-integrating with our Irish culture as it was and as it has become and sanctify it too then. The thought of this delights me but I have no idea what it will look like. I was thinking to try and compile a synaxarion of Irish saints and prayers so I could get to know them all so perhaps that will illuminate what the Orthodox Church was like here.
Do you know the well-known author who converted to Orthodoxy, Paul Kingsnorth?
@@OrthodoxEthos Yes I have watched his interview with Jonathan Pageau. We share a background in environmentalism and being converted somewhat against our personal biases so I am hoping to meet him one day as I am trying to discern being a steward as a Christian without bringing along any unhelpful baggage. We're on opposite sides of the country but it's a small island so that's not far at all. :)
@@OrthodoxEthos is there a way to talk to u 1 on 1?
Must say, what many people take for one of the biggest flaws with Orthodoxy, the ethnic aspect of it, is actually one of my favorite things about it. I mean... one of the favorite... let's say, external expression of it. God made different languages, and He did say, in the end, "Preach the Gospel to all *nations* ", not exactly "all people". I do believe every nation has it's own cultural way of accepting and practicing Orthodoxy, of course, with a given that it doesn't deviate from the universal dogma.
I find it very interesting how our old Slavic ancestoral-oriented pagan ways actually, as far as it seems to me at least, turned out to be a fertile ground for christianization, of many customs, along with elimination of those that weren't as compatible. Now, us Serbs are the only ones who celebrate Slava within the Orthodox universe. Also, many customs have been implemented and persevered from the centuries of Muslim opression, which is what makes it unique too. So, I'm sure that the Irish expression of Orthodoxy will have some interesting authenthic aspects.
Sorry for the long post, but I also remembered kind of a funny anecdote from many years ago. It was St Patric's day, and I found myself with some people in the pub, decorated with green clovers and such. My Muslim friend made a joke - "so, in like, what, 14-15 days, you (Orthodox) guys will have St Patrick's Day as well?", which landed on my kind of confused, blank stare. Another girl walked in, said "happy St Patrick's Day everyone!" and he repeated the joke, at which she laughed. He said "yeah, she gets it, the joke". Lol, I smiled, kind of shrugged and said "yeah, sorry... now I get what you were getting at, but actually, we DO celebrate St Patrick in 14 days, it's just that not many people are actually aware of it. We call him The Enlightener of Ireland". Felt kind of embarassed at my own confusion, and not getting what he was getting at initially. What a stupid moment, lmao. He was actually shocked at my response.
@@golden_fork2775 Yeah thanks I love what you said and that story is funny. I'd love to learn more about how St Patrick and my own patron St Colmcille and all the others worshipped and expressed Orthodoxy. I wonder how much evidence we have. I am entirely ignorant.
I remember watching that Scott Hahn interview when it came out and being baffled by his answers. Wasn't expecting him to be so ignorant on Orthodoxy.
Scott Hahn either is so ignorant of Orthodoxy or mentally dishonest
@@franciscosanchezpascua5030knowing him, probably just ignorant
He was trained by Protestants and Roman Catholics.
It's sort of funny that what turned me towards Orthodoxy was a Catholic catechism. It felt worldly and nonsensical to me on a level that actually bothered me at a time when I was looking for something that was out of and above this world.
When it comes to the truth, there is no room for compromise!
“There can be no compromise in matters of the Orthodox Faith.” - St. Mark of Ephesus
Oh but there is so much compromise. Have you watched the RUclips neophytes whoring themselves out for numbers (followers) on RUclips? EO, RC and others uniting in a sick ecumenical orgy to attack Protestants.
Father bless!
I recall walking through the Byzantine Hall at the Metropolitan Museum of Art, in NYC. One smaller hall was ordered by date, earliest to latest. While walking through the years (so to speak), one can notice the progression on the Crucifixes, from the Savior's Passionless Passion to the grotesqueries of suffering and pain as is depicted and popular in the West. All the grotesqueries, as I recall, were from Italy (such places as Ravenna and Rome) and France, and Spain.
That would make a good video. Very educational.
I'm becoming Orthodox, but is it so bad to depict the pain that Christ endured for us..? Is it not accurate? Does it not remind us of what He went through to save us?
@@OrthoLouI'm pretty sure the problem is in the over-emphasis on Christ's pain, the central emphasis ought to be on the saving grace of His, not centrally placed on His suffering
In the first place Jesus instructed His Apostles not to lord their authority over the people as the Gentile rulers did to their subjects, but this is exactly what was done re the filioque in particular and the power of the pope in general. The second concern is the filioque was not used in the church of Rome for a very long time and was papally forbidden. The reversal of position from forbidding it to commanding it be used should set off warning lights. St. John Chrysostom wrote that Satan inverts good into evil and evil into good. This was condemned by the prophet Isiah. If they were correct when they did not utilize the filioque then they are incorrect now in using it. If they were wrong when they did not use the filioque then they taught falsehood and error for centuries, misleading many souls, and have now corrected themselves meaning they have a history of misleading people. How can two contradictory positions both be right? Who trusts someone like that with his soul? To say they were correct in the past and are correct now means that God the Holy Spirit working through the Church is not immutable which is heresy. Lastly, if the 3 Persons of the Trinity are co-equal, and the filioque is to confirm the Son's equality with the Father, what have they done to the equality Holy Spirit by making Him dependent on and subservient to both the Father and the Son?
Indeed!
@@WebCitizen How can you know?
@@WebCitizen Fact is, such statement (if related to the Hypostatic Origin) was considered as heretical by the Fathers. We Orthodox have no problem if that was about temporal procession, yet even Florence made it clear that RC did and does believe that statement in precisely the heretical sense.
@@WebCitizen What does "And in the Holy Spirit the Lord the giver of life Who proceeds from the Father and the Son..." mean in your definition?
I agree with you. But it seems to be a non factor for Catholics. A formidable catholic I have been talking to does not see it as changing the meaning of the creed but just re-emphasizing Jesus’s divinity in response to a heresy developed in Spain. So they don’t care. The lording over part is more compelling talking to a catholic as the pope was a first among equals….well by lording the filique be used he ultimately became just a first. Where were his patriarchal equals? No longer equals of course. He broke with how the church makes these decisions and changes.
Thank You Great Video Praise God! Long Live The Orthodox Church! ☦️☦️
Dr. Hahn also messed up by saying Arianism is about the Holy Spirit so the West needs the filioque, which is silly.
I don't think you got right what he meant. Arianism is about the Son but by making up the proccession of the Spirit from the Son those christians wanted to stress the divinity of the Son so that all see that the Son (allegedly) is the source of the Spirit just as the Father so He is just as divine. I think that's what Dr. Hahn meant.
oh no, you were right. I re-listened to him. I messed up in my comment.
@@StasBalabay I think you're right. Nevertheless, different understanding of God, different spirituality.
At the same time, the council of Toledo, which was dealing with Arianism, was the first to use the term filioque, so Dr Hahn was likely following this line of thinking. What Toledo was not doing, as far as I understand, was speaking about the eternal origin of the Spirit, so filioque in that sense can be correct.
I am not saying Dr Hahn was correct. If he holds to the latin view, which he does, then he believes in a Holy Spirit that proceeds eteranally from the Father and Son, which is not what Toledo taught.
@Mr Magoo's Junkmail Are you saying that the sharing that hypostatic property is an issue because they are being shared, or because it is shared between two and not three? I would add that all three have a property that is not shared by the others, so I do not imagine your concern is about that.
Thank you, Fr., for this invaluable work elucidating the origins of the Papal Protestant church.
Thank you for this video, Fr. Peter Heers. Would love to see one on the Non-Chalcedonians, and one on Protestantism, at least on the most common “Reformation” beliefs or on the most-growing “Christian” group, Pentecostalism.
Wepa!
It blows my mind that “Pentecostalism” is growing so rapidly. How anyone can be stupid enough to buy into that garbage is - in itself - a testament to the times. Even the Roman Catholics have bought into quite a bit of it. Check out the “Charismatic Catholic Renewal” for an example of such horrors.
Just got here! I listened to the whole podcast, and I took note of both presentation and relevant literature. You've grounded me on ideas that are loosely expoused in conversations with family and in the media with street preachers. I'm grateful that the Lord Almighty has prepared Father's such as yourself to guide me into the future with veracity. God bless you and continue to guide you! In Jesus' name, amen.
Thank you for an incredibly thoughtful lecture, Father. I especially love that you provided a list of resources to follow up on. This is by far the best lecture I have found on this topic. I'm new to your content and will be devouring much more in the future. Again, thank you so much for the work you do.
It is not true that the WR uses unleavened bread..People mistake the wafer for the exact same ones used by Latins and Anglicans.
How is the wafer made ?
@@Yallquietendown
My parish uses a kind of modified waffle iron. It’s fully leavened, but kept small like bites of hard tack prior to consecration. This basic practice was developed in the Early Middle Ages before the Schism for traveling priests and missionaries to keep dry but easily eaten bread for communion that was resistant to spoilage. It went on long enough to become Western European tradition.
@Mr Magoo's Junkmail
You do not hold the likes of Saint Osmond and the Dialogist as equal to Chrysostom and Basil?
@Mr Magoo's Junkmail anyone who does not believe in multiple Rites in the Church such as the Western Rite is not Orthodox. In our creed, we believe in the CATHOLIC and apostolic faith. We believe in multiple Rites, yet have One Holy Church. We are Orthodox Catholics not "Orthodox" Protestants or proto-Protestants.
I'm so sick of this anti West nonsense going on in Orthodoxy. There is nothing wrong with the West and it's piety. The West has amazing culture too. The degenerate stuff we see today with the liberals, modernist, etc. Is not true Western civilization, but in fact is the opposite. It's not about East vs West. It's about the Orthodox vs the Evil One and his agents.
Do you go to a WR Parish Zee?
God bless you for speaking up father Peter.
The video will trigger Reason and Theology on RUclips lol
I was thinking the same thing. Watching for a loooooong response video from R and T
Whos that?
@@Smiley_Face0 some youtube eastern catholic schoolar ex orthodox
@@icxcnika555 Yeah you know...I think I don't wanna know haha
@@Smiley_Face0 A guy named Erick Ybarra and some others.
Many Roman Catholics churches are super divided into ethnic groups. With multiple masses using different languages (one in English, one in Mexican). Sunday schools only attended by English speaking people with zero Mexicans attending.
Mexican is an ethnicity. Their language is Spanish. It is incorrect to say Mexican language.
@@gab31282 you don't understand central america #TheySpeakaMexican
@@ekklesiagigapanography1854 The language spoken in Central America is Spanish.
@@gab31282 there are MANY languages spoken in central america.
@@ekklesiagigapanography1854 All I'm saying is that Mexican is not a language.
That was so helpful, from start to finish, thank you Father Heers.
In response to Fr. Peter's rhetorical question: why can't priests just do immersion, what is the problem? I suspect he knows, but if he will permit, I will state my theory - because these priests were themselves received by chrismation (or worse, by "vesting") and they do not want to acknowledge that there is anything wrong with their own heterodox-affusion "baptisms."
And in the case of the Moscow patriarchate, they are actually following church policy which has sadly been in place for a few centuries. After all, if you are accepting heterodox baptisms by affusion, why would you not accept it among the orthodox? Through this logic you end up thinking whether you immerse or not is no big deal.
In my own case, joining the orthodox church, I was baptized by affusion (though over the upper body, not just the head) even though I told the priest twice I wanted full immersion. He said there was no adult baptismal font in our parish and assured me the affusion was valid.
I was later a witness at another adult baptism by the same priest where he simply splashed water on the face and chest of the person. To me it seemed totally inadequate. I think the fact I got the pouring was because I had made him promise he would at least get me as wet as possible.
I do not want to speak ill of him, as I believe he is a good man and an otherwise good priest, but it's just another example of how endemic this problem is in the church.
Thank you again father for another wonderfully done podcast.
Thank you for your addition, which is quite accurate, if also quite sad. Paraphrasing St. Cyprian of Carthage: let Truth prevail over customs!
Well said thank you. I nothing about Orthodoxy but being baptized as a baby my soul screams to me that these things just can't be right. It makes no sense when the Bible preaches different things than the Church. And baptism is one of the most important things of human existence, so no surprise the devil would try to create confusion and false teachings.
@@Smiley_Face0 Your soul is not screaming out to you about Orthodox baptism being wrong. That is a trick of the adversary. 😅
The Church does not go against Holy Scripture or vice versa.
@@LadyMaria I don't get how there can be sacraments outside of the Church??? Seriously you own me a reply cause I said so 🗿
@YAJUN YUAN If it is not triple immersion, it is not Apostolic. Not to mention SDAs are not in the Church.
"Infallibility belongs only to the GodMan" AMEN! In my Journey to find the True Church founded by Jesus Christ, after being tossed to and fro from various protestant doctrines. After almost becoming a calvinist,baptist, fundamental independent baptist, I thought maybe catholicism is the true church but I couldn't reconcil the many doctrines "papal Infallibility" and "purgatory" included so I decided to just go to the nondenominational protestantism my parents are part of. However though I desperately wanted to worship God, the charismatic rock concert worship just perturbed and gave me a out of place feeling! So then I looked into traditional catholicism but there was still a reluctant papal adherence, then I started seeing Orthodox videos from Josiah trenham, fastforward a much later I seen a Orthodox Christian named Kyle rebuke and refute Protestantism! After I finished the video the out of place feeling made sense, the traditions of the apostles had been little by little been wittled away. I asked what if there isn't a church nearby in Boonville Indiana and Kyle showed me in fact there is one in evansville and to go there! After I attended a sunday liturgy and learned about some things I was relieved I had FINALLY found what I've been looking for this whole time! Glory be to God! However during the trad catholic part of the journey I learned more about free masonry infiltrating the catholic clergy and sowing what I now know as ecumenism and humanism and I wanted to combat it! When I decided to join Orthodoxy and go full into Orthodoxy I foolishly thought at least Orthodoxy hasn't been rocked by this free masonic infiltration then I found out about ecumenism! Now that Im trying to acheive the Orthodox ethos and to humble and better myself Im being tormented by intrusive thoughts that revolt me deeply, my priest told me they are not my own and that there of the devil and to not beat myself up about them and that it is common! Recently I seen a video by a monastic about the trials of Job allowed by God making Job holy and trust in God more. Is it possible that God is allowing these intrusive thoughts to bring me to trust in God more? In scripture, scripture talks about the fiery darts of the devil and the mental torture is worse than physical torture, one day recently I thought to myself "I'd rather be burnt alive". Input would very much apreciated. God bless☦
Your priest spoke well. We must discern between those thoughts inspired by God and those thoughts inspired by the demons. Many of our thoughts are not our own. Only those that glorify God and are according to his will and commandments should we listen to.
Thank you Father for this very edifying lecture! May god bless you and all at OE! The chat is horrible, I am grateful to live in a part of the world where it is deep and dark around the time you broadcast, because otherwise I would be in great danger to lose dispassionateness.... I do hope that some may be granted with more wisdom and not always try to be the funniest or the one with the most weird comments. Great expectations there are not for that, afterall this is some kind of social media, but Hope dies last. ;)
I had to do a "double take" for a moment at St. Justin's calling Papalism a "second death" on one hand, but then Mr. Barron's comment to the effect that the Apostle Peter and the Church Fathers are "not alive" and 'distant' while Francis in Rome is more alive than them! It seemed harsh at first, but it really is fitting to this. Those saints are alive in Christ, but all too often do I hear denial and confusion over this. Very tragic.
Starts in 6:00
I didn't imagine to hear here the writing of the desert Fathers that i have just read and meditate. I prefere to keeping myself far from any contention between you ,but i have started to understand all better so thanks
Is there a book for the 8th Ecumenical Council? I was wondering if the writing of Papadopoulos, Kerameus, and Johan Meijer were books or articles.
Articles. See the cited article by David Ford on the 8th Oecumenical Council
It's interesting to me that Scott Hahn rejected Orthodoxy for ethnicity reasons while the church he joined approves of recreating Christ in the image of whatever the local people are. Christ is depicted as Chinese in China, hispanic in South America, white in Europe, etc.
An related irony to that is that since Jews are an ethnicity as well as a non-Christian religion, the least common way to depict Jesus in Catholicism is to depict him as the Jew he actually was.
Another thing, I don't know this for sure but I suspect if you asked Hahn, seeing as how he doesn't want to commit career suicide, he'd tell you he's all for diversity even tho he wants to homogenize the church.
In any case, if I had to pick between having GOARCH & ROCOR and having clown mass & baptizing people as nonbinary, I'd take the ethnicity.
Pretty sure he chose Catholicism because of his pride and arrogance. I’m not judging him, only sharing that he has made a LOT of money being a Catholic that otherwise he may have not….
can't wait for the new books!
As for ethnic stuff, people are not perfect. Phyletism is already condemned in council. The Uniate bodies and Papists in Poland or Hungary are not gonna be immune from some of those human weaknesses, either.
Holding one’s ground is far more respectable than waffling in hopes of being people to Christ. The waffling is not the truth thus not bringing to the fullness of the faith.
complete immersion is necessary in water not halfway way not 3/4 of the way
but totally
for it to count.
Jesus Christ was totally immersion in water this is the right time
in water
GOD BLESS
Fr Heers, is there in the works / would you be willing to do a similar video for the Monophysite churches?
In the works, but it will be a while still.
Glory to our Lord Jesus Christ... ❤️ thank you
1:23:00 Sum Ting Wong
We Too Lo.
"Saint Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle. Be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil; May God rebuke him, we humbly pray; And do thou, O Prince of the Heavenly Host, by the power of God, thrust into hell Satan and all evil spirits who wander through the world for the ruin of souls. Amen."
In regards to the Pope Gregory statement he made about a universal bishop, my understanding is he wasn’t talking about the papal authority, but something else. Could you speak on this? Catholic answers gives some response, but not sure if it holds much water. I’m a new convert to Orthodoxy by the way!
Peter is a universal Bishop as per Acts 15 7 where he says His Mouth was the one to evangelise
Bless, Father Peter! Father, what is the name of the amazing chant we can always listen to before your podcasts? Is it a Psalm? Which one? Could you please tell us what recording is it?
I mean, I actually would like to know both the one which starts with the bells ringing, and the one which starts at 5:39.
here:
ruclips.net/video/nITbMJwSGo4/видео.html
And also here:
ruclips.net/video/IOYnlGozR3I/видео.html
17 min. mark and further for the particular section showcased.
Vigil on Mt. Athos. Xeropotamou
@@OrthodoxEthos Thank you. The second link does not work, though. "video not available".
Thank you so much for this, Father!
I have an important question for Father Heers. Why is it that after the schism the Orthodox East did not install their own Orthodox patriarch of Rome to operate parallel to the Catholic pope of Rome?
They initially waited for his return and then, after years passed, they had no Orthodox in Rome to care for…so why put a bishop there? Are there Orthodox bishops in Armenia or Ethiopia?
I was thinking of restoring the Patriarch of the west. By creating a new Orthodox Patriarch of Rome who will be in charge of all the western rite churches and jurisdictions around the world. That can be a great way to heal the schism, just install an Orthodox patriarch of Rome as an alternative to the Pope in the Vatican. Why is that a bad idea?
@@AirportPlanes Rome tried that with the Uniates (overlapping our Patriarchs with their own) and it's only caused more problems, even martyring of Orthodox.
I really enjoyed this class.Could you provide or point to a bibliography of publications you referenced in this session?
Very much looking forward to Palamas on the procession of the Spirit. Thank you.
Same and I'm excited to see where Gregory IIs energetic procession is found in the father's and an explanation of how Revelation 22:1 isn't a confirmation of the filioque in the eternal procession in light of John 7:37-39
Would any have a link for the ecclesiology series mentioned at the start of the video. I search through the RUclips channel offerings and wasn't able to find it. Many thanks.
IC XC NIKA
Father, Is there any way you can provide a source for the quote of St. Francis saying he has no sin that he has not repented of? I see the article cites Unseen Light, by Lodyzhensky, but it is only in Russian, and I have not found any western sources that claim he said this. Thank you
Bonaventure wrote "I have fulfilled..." in his biographical book about Francis.
Please make a podcast on apple podcasts! Wish I could listen while I work.
Yes. Coming soon.
Pope Peter distinguishes himself from other apostles in Acts 15 7 where he says he was the one chosen.
Nope. He speaks about being chosen by God to preach to the Gentiles so that by his "...mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe." I am astounded as to how you tried to pervert the content of the Bible.
But if 1009/1014 is the real year of the Great Schism, what should be our stance for those saints, that lived in the latin church just before 1054 and are commemorated in the orthodox church as well? I'm thinking about King Stephen I. of Hungary for example and I personally commemorate him in my prayers.
Rome - the pope of Rome - only was stricken from the diptychs in 1009 and 1014.
@@OrthodoxEthos Thank you for clarification.
On the matter of the Papacy, from the canons of Carthage, a note to Pope Celestine from the council (from Schaff):
"Premising, therefore, our due regards to you (Pope Celestine), we earnestly conjure you, that for the future you do not readily admit to a hearing persons coming hence, nor choose to receive to your communion those who have been excommunicated by us, because you, Venerable Sir, will readily perceive that this has been prescribed even by the Nicene Council. For though this seems to be there forbidden in respect of the inferior clergy, or the laity, how much more did it will this to be observed in the case of bishops, lest those who had been suspended from communion in their own Province might seem to be restored to communion hastily or unfitly by your Holiness (Pope Celestine)... Nicene decrees have most plainly committed not only the clergy of inferior rank, but the bishops themselves to Metropolitans. For they have ordained with great wisdom and justice, that all matters should be terminated in the places where they arise; and did not think that the grace of the Holy Spirit would be wanting to any Providence… *unless it be imagined* that God can inspire a single individual with justice, and refuse it to an innumerable multitude of bishops assembled at council.”
Huge blew to Vatican 1 wow
That’s honestly a nuclear bomb.
Is it permissable for an Orthodox Christian to pray to a Roman Catholic Saint?
If he or she were truly a saint, and you were to ask for assistance, then, of course, it would be no problem. But, as is shown clearly in history and in the writings of the Saints, unfortunately there’s been a distortion, a falling away from the experience of God in the western confessions. Hence, the Orthodox Church does not recognize any of those called saints among the heretical confessions, including those among the papal protestants.
There are Saints before the Great schism from the West, we Orthodox can ask for their intercession.
@@stavrouladeessegloria Why do christians need to ask for intercession of ANY SAINT?RECITING PATER NOSTER ΠΑΤΕΡ ΗΜΩΝ is enough as Jesus taught us!
@@elvishiekios8826 Please listen to a very short clip of explanation from Father Peter Heers to answer your question.
As for me, our God is the God of the living not of the dead.
Luke 20:37
But even Moses showed in the burning bush passage that the dead are raised, when he called the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’
And we who are in the Church we are surrounded by a great cloud of witnesses of the faith in Christ.
Hebrew 12:1-3
1Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off every encumbrance and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with endurance the race set out for us. 2Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the authora and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3Consider Him who endured such hostility from sinners, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.
Father Peter Heers has the accurate answer for you.
HTH
Asking your prayers ☦️
How Do I Pray to the Saints:
ruclips.net/video/7CVf0cILnkg/видео.html
@@elvishiekios8826Because the prayer of righteous people has more weight to it.
Around the 1 hour 50 minute mark with Dr Scott Hahn, I find that interesting, his comments about the autocephalus churches. I suppose from the Orthodox point of view, they would agree, and would simply say yes, Rome was an autocephalus church, she just decided to claim universal supremacy and infallibility over all the rest
where can I learn more about the 8th and 9th Ecumenical Council? I can't even find them online
Look for a paper done by father George Dragas.
www.oodegr.com/english/dogma/synodoi/8th_Synod_Dragas.htm
ST. PHOTIOS THE GREAT, THE PHOTIAN COUNCIL, AND RELATIONS WITH THE ROMAN CHURCH
Dr. David Ford
pravoslavie.ru/97929.html
Very informative.
Well i really agree the filioque is a big problem. Because Jesus says the Father will send the Holy Spirit in His name. So i wonder if it would be a case of the Father sending the Holy Spirit through Jesus' request...then in a certain way it would proceed from both. Still the Father is the cause of this sending, the one who does the action. I see how the orthodox position is more cautious and close to the Biblical passages without elaborating on it more.
Rome is only 1/4 of the See of Peter and Paul: Antioch is the earliest part of it, followed by Alexandria (shared with Mark) and also London, from which he and Paul, according to the Greek Synaxarion were recalled to Rome to face execution and martyrdom. Given a half share, this is only the most junior 1/8 of the See of Peter and Paul at the very most.
Hello Father Peter, thank you so much for this lecture clear and informative.Could you make a similar podcast on Islam( another giant that is influencing people greatly.)
~Necesssary, indeed.
Thank you for this extremely insightful examination, Father. I have recently renounced Protestantism (although I haven't thrown the baby out of the bath water) and have been devouring lots of information about EO and RC. I have located the nearest Orthodox church to me and wondered whether, as a catechumen, I should offer my hands palms-up to the local Father when I approach him as an Enquirer? God bless, and praise be to our risen Lord.
Intereting that oriental church (coptic & jacobite) perform exactly same way of baptism by triple immersion despite being separated for 1,500 years
1:10:37 This is an ancient practice adopted from the Jews. In Hebrew it’s called Mikvah.
I can't find such words of Saint Francis, sorry , are you really sure? Can cite the biography where you find it? Thanks
"Im not aware of any trasgression, i have not redemed through confession and repeteance"
As a Roman Catholic Will I be expected by the Orthodox if I join the Ukraine Greek Catholic Church or do I actually have to join the Orthodox Church and as an Anglo Saxon what Orthodox Church should I join
The ugcc, as the name itself suggests, is not a part of the Orthodox Church. Join any jurisdiction, because The Orthodox Church is One Church, with many traditions and jurisdictions.
I'm Greek Orthodox in a ROCOR Parish but I'm neither Greek nor Russian. Ethnicity doesn't matter.
You would actually have to join the Orthodox Church.
I go to an Antiochian Church even though I'm not Arabic. Ethnicity doesn't matter, as another commenter said.
Starts at 5.23
Thanks!
Thank you so much for your support!
We are indebted to you! Please pray for us!
Good struggles!
The intro music is so disharmonic that it makes me not want to listen to the teaching. So I just fast forward until I find it. Am I a fallen Anglican for feeling this way?😇
This might be answered later, but what was "added or removed from the creed" in 1014?
"..and the Son" (Filioque in Latin) was added to the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed (in the clause about the Holy Spirit, "..Who proceeds from the Father..") by the Latins. That is against Canons of the 2nd Ecumenical Council which Rome agreed to.
@@LadyMaria, thank you!!
The Filioque in the Creed That the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son This is what Rome changed. In the original Creed The Holy spirit proceeds from the Father. The original Creed was on 2 plaques on the door of Saint Peters in Latin and in Greek after the schism it was removed.
How are saints confirmed? Are petitions only to be signed if we pray for and receive intercession or are we just encouraging the church to investigate?
Father Bless, where can the chant be found at the very beginning of the opening of the video?
From Mt. Athos vigil, Xeropotamou Monastery, 2019, I believe.
Thank you Father for all that you do
Very affirming of what I felt led to and was backed up by all reason I had to find EO theology agreeable and RC theology disagreeable, but this angle is much clearer.
This was very useful
Excellent ...
However, once baptized and confirmed, one cannot get re-Baptized and re-confirmed, this is a grave sin. I am stuck on what to do at this point. Both sides have good points, Scott Hahann isn't my go-to person to be honest.
Baptized and confirmed, where and by whom? If you mean among the papal protestants, then this is not initiation into the One Church, therefore not the one baptism.
Thank you
Does anyone have an idea when the idea of created grace became to be taught in the west? I know Barlaam believed in it, but I was wondering who might have popularized the idea.
@@joshuamoore8278 where does Augustine affirm created grace?
It never got popularized
Thank you god bless you
What was the first reference book with the green cover early in the presentation?
The Christian East and the Rise of the Papacy by A. Papadakis, St. Vladimir’s Seminary Press
@@pah9730 thank you
You said there are 9 Ecumenical Councils....can you tell me what the 9th council is?
Constantinople V, held in the mid 14th century.
When Scott said he studied dispassionately, I had to chuckle! What do Roman Catholics know about being dispassionate? The entire edifice is built on prelest!
As a Roman Catholic, I received baptism, confirmation, and communion on the same day. Easter Vigil Mass…
You were baptized or water was poured over your forehead?
Well…. Water was poured over my head. I was just pointing out that the sacraments were all carried out on the same day… I’m wanting to convert to Orthodoxy. My Catholic friends are horrified 😢
Fr Peter, forgive me but you said that there was no grace in the west because of their heresy. What is different from their current situation and what the early church experienced in the Donatist heresy? It is my understanding that Donatism was condemned as heretical and that the Holy Mysteries were present regardless of the worth of the priests. Doesn't this mean that grace comes with Apostolic Succession regardless of worth?
What was said about the donatists was said by a few in North Africa and never by an ecumenical council. That’s the first thing to consider.
Secondly, the Donatists never, to my knowledge, adopted heretical Trinitarian theology. Unfortunately, the filioque is rejected by the 8th ecumenical council as heretical, and by several more councils and many saints, including two of the most towering Saints in the Orthodox church: Saint Photios the Great and Saint Gregory Palamas.
Thirdly we have 1000 years since the heretical minded and anti-Romans took over the papacy and the Pope ended up turning his back on the eighth ecumenical council, adopting heresy, departing from communion, and then those in his communion slowly appropriating more and more heretical doctrines: absolute divine simplicity, created grace, the immaculate conception, papal infallibility, and now the heretical new ecclesiology of Vatican II.
Many times over the last thousand years great saints of the Orthodox Church have said that the the pope’s communion is in heresy, they do not have the divine energies/grace of God in the Mysteries, they do not baptize and must be baptized upon conversion, and much more. Such Saints as St. Paisius Velichkovsky and Saint Nikodemos the Athonite, to name just two.
Does Hahn not know of the sui generis churches in papalism?
Father, I am a Latin Catholic, I agree with you on many of the issues you have raised about the Roman Catholic Church, but I think we need an new ecumenical council so we can work things out. Why can't this be done?
There is no desire for repentance.
@@OrthodoxEthos Thank you for your response, Father Peter,
In listening to you and other Orthodox priests this Roman Catholic understands the pain and wounds inflicted by my church on the East. I am sorry that my church hasn't been contrite enough for it's trangressions and has left this stumbling block, and others, in the path of unity. We, RCs, need the correction of the East and I pray for Church unity. Peace to you Reverend Father.
❤Σας Ευχαριςτώ Πατερ χερς❤Ας Έρθει Η Βασιλεία των ουρανών ❤ Να ξεπλύνει τα αμαρτήματα τους❤❤❤
Forget about theology! Does anyone go through Salvation anymore? The Way is how the Holy Trinity works. You can't be on the way and not see how the Holy Spirit of God proceeds from Him and what part Jesus as God's Son enacts in the formula.
This modern struggle with evil is bringing down so many of those on their way to heaven!
Perhaps I'm wrong
I think your wrong. Theology is the exposition of Christian dogmas. What are the Holy Mysteries, what is the Church of Christ, God and the Salvation of Mankind. If you have no knowledge of Theology you are bound to swallow anything.
How improper to say that Holy Fathers are "distant figures"! The great cloud of witnesses we're surrounded by, distant and (let's say) antiquated and in need of correction by an infallible man who can't even defend his OWN religion? Who betrays it regularly? Honestly I think he's lying through his teeth if he pleads ignorance of RECENT figures like St Justin Popovich, St Nectarios, and all the Athonite elders who haven't even reposed.
Admittedly, you don't have the same issue of schism in Catholicism (well, except that Sedevacantists actually manage to defend their faith but the Pope doesn't like them), but will I be Papist if it isn't the true faith in the first place? If I don't have true sacraments?
Father, unfortunately, this gives a one sided view. Many people watching this video will not likely have a level of understanding of history to be able to thoroughly evaluate it. If we ask where did the Catholic Church go wrong we could also ask where did the Orthodox Church go wrong?
I will have to answer this video in two parts. Unfortunately, my comments are rather lengthy.
Have you ever read the Orthodox Saints who thought it was required to follow the Roman church? St. Maximus the Confessor, when commenting on the manner in which Pyrrhus, a former Bishop of Constantinople and heretic, should return to the unity of the Church, said this about him: "Let him [Pyrrhus] hasten before all else to to satisfy the Roman See, for if it is satisfied all will agree in calling him pious and orthodox…, That Apostolic See which has received universal and supreme dominion, authority, and power of binding and loosing over all the holy churches of God throughout the world, from the incarnate Son of God Himself and also by all holy councils” (Migne PG 91:114; taken from Eastern Orthodoxy’s Witness. Happily, seemingly in answer to your concerns about his titles Pope Francis has reacquired the title Patriarch of the West. To be honest, it's one of the few things Francis has done with which I agree.
There is plenty of liberalism and heresy creeping into Eastern Orthodoxy. Archbishop Elpidophoros in July 2022 in Greece baptised the child of a gay couple, the famous designer Peter Bousis and his Greek-American partner Evangelo Bousis. The child was born through surrogacy. Pope Francis came out against surrogacy and against the trans culture recently, and no Catholic bishop to my knowledge has authorized such acts. Following that there was indecisiveness on the part of the Orthodox churches. In a response to an Orthodox Archbishop stating the unacceptability of such actions, Metropolitan Chrysostomos of Messinia stated: "The proposal of Abp. Ieronymos of Athens regarding the non-Baptism of infants adopted by same-sex couples is his personal opinion, which does not reflect the position of the Hierarchy of the Church of Greece."
But where are the Orthodox now? There is a schism between the Russian Orthodox Church and the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople. You have no head. Therefore you have no church, you have churches. There is not an organization that has ever been conceived that does not have a head. While Christ is the head of the church he established a temporal head of the church for the purpose of preventing such problems. There is no power within the temporal church in Orthodoxy to call a council, to resolve the dispute between the ecumenical patriarch and the Russian Orthodox Patriarch, and it seems to be more like fighting children than a church. Yes we do have problems in the Catholic Church. Pope Francis is not my favorite pope, I will tell you that. I do agree that there have been a lot of abuses in the church since Vatican II, not as a result directly of Vatican II, but mainly because of the social context in the West in which it occurred. But The Pope has the power to put the German bishops in their place and to keep the church united in a much more effective manner than the Orthodox Church has been able to. The much anticipated Pan- Orthodox Council of 2016 amounted to a lot of infighting and disagreement and really resulted in nothing, except for some Orthodox claiming that the ecumenical patriarch was trying to act like a pope. Furthermore the Russian Orthodox Patriarch has declared the Russian attack on Ukraine as a holy war. He has claimed sole jurisdiction in Ukraine. I don't see anything like this happening in the Catholic Church.
The Orthodox Church or churches generally accepted the Filioque for use by the Western Church, as a response to heresy denying the divinity of the Holy Spirit in the seventh and eighth centuries. Sometimes it was an issue, sometimes it wasn't. Yet, one cannot read the farewell dialogs in John 15 and 16 without recognizing that it is a valid understanding, especially when the Catholic Church has acknowledged that the source of the Holy Spirit is the Father and procession, when it comes to Christ, does not mean as the source, but it would accept the understanding of proceeds through the Son. When Jesus breathed on the disciples and said, “receive the Holy Spirit" seems like a slam dunk to me. Now could it have been handled differently? Yes, that's a different argument. In fact, at the time of the schism in 1054 no one on either side thought it would be permanent. There was great cooperation during the initial crusades and the continued schism was political more than religious. Attempts at reunification happened and even when agreed to by the bishops of the entire eastern church ended up being negated by one Eastern bishop. If the pope had done that you would claim invalid primacy, yet if a single bishop does that in the east it's okay?
Similarly, the Orthodox constantly claim heresy when the Western Church defines anything. Purgatory is a heresy. Yet the Orthodox Church maintains that there is a place or state of purification where the soul will benefit from prayer. Original sin the way Catholics explain it is heresy to them. The Orthodox maintain that original sin brought death and separated man from God. Catholics of course would not disagree. Simply a different understanding based upon culture but with the same result. Now, if the Catholic Church had stated that Jesus was the source of the Trinity or abrogated the order of the Trinity, that would be a different story. If the Catholic Church denied the divinity of any members of the Holy Trinity, denied baptism, denied holy orders, denied the requirement of faith and works for Salvation, or denied any number of dogmatic principles that are agreed upon by the East and the West then I would understand. The Orthodox will resort to “it's a mystery” When they want to refute a Catholic definition.
But the Orthodox argue about terminology, or the attempt to use a word to define something. For instance, the Orthodox believe that the bread and wine are transformed into the body and blood of Jesus. The Catholics believe the same. Yet, add the word transubstantiation and the Orthodox cry heresy. It is simply a word that the West used to define a transformation that was taking place. Such is the difference I guess between the East and the West culturally. But it is not a cause for schism. Especially not when considered in the light of the paragraphs below.
I would like to reference the Jerusalem Synod of the Orthodox Church of 1672. The beliefs as stated are identical to those of the Catholic Church. In terms of the Eucharist: "Further, that in every part, or the smallest division of the transmuted bread and wine there is not a part of the Body and Blood of the Lord - for to say so were blasphemous and wicked - but the entire whole Lord Christ substantially, that is, with His Soul and Divinity, or perfect God and perfect man. This is just an example., transmuted, not transubstantiated, so one is okay and the other is Heresy. But wait, it gets better. A little later in the paragraph it reads: "the bread of the Prothesis* set forth in all the several Churches, being changed and transubstantiated, becomes, and is, after consecration, one and the same with That in the Heavens." Oh my goodness, the word transubstantiated. The difference in the word is only a difference in the tense. So how is it now a heresy if the Orthodox church never changes its teaching?
Now let's get to that pesky purgatory. That same council said the following: "And the souls of those involved in mortal sins, who have not departed in despair but while still living in the body, though without bringing forth any fruits of repentance, have repented - by pouring forth tears, by kneeling while watching in prayers, by afflicting themselves, by relieving the poor, and finally by showing forth by their works their love towards God and their neighbor, and which the Catholic Church has from the beginning rightly called satisfaction - [their souls] depart into Hades, and there endure the punishment due to the sins they have committed. But they are aware of their future release from there, and are delivered by the Supreme Goodness, through the prayers of the Priests, and the good works which the relatives of each do for their Departed" Ok, so they don't call it purgatory. And a descripcion of exactly what the Catholic Church teaches is called heresy because it is called purgatory. The fact is the hypocrisy of the Orthodox Church is glaring.
Now, you are concerned about heresy regarding the above issues, which I have shown are really non-issues. Let's look at another issue. I believe you at some point in this video or another discuss Hesychasm. Let's look at the writings of St Gregory Palamus. We are not talking about the procession of the Holy Spirit here. We are talking about the very nature of God. He separates God's Essence from his Energies in a way that goes against the Council of Nicaea. Against opposition he also describes the Essence of God lying above and a divinity or Godhead that is lower. If this is not absolute heresy I don't know what is. He also stated that those who have obtained spiritual and supernatural grace have become entirely God. He went so far as to say that those who attain it become uncreated. This even caused the chief opponent of his, who wrote against papal primacy, to convert to Roman Catholicism and become a Catholic Bishop. Yet despite this obvious heresy the Roman church has not condemned Orthodoxy for it. Why? Because despite differences in understanding these are teachings which although heterodox will not affect the salvation of the souls of the faithful. Neither will the filioque. And that is a lot more in keeping with traditional Catholic Orthodox thought than St Gregory.
The Roman communion has the exact same ethnic, national divisions that exist within the Orthodox Church. In fact, these divisions are more pronounced and rigid in the Roman communion because every individual is ‘ascribed’ to a particular church. If you are born into the Ukrainian Uniate, you cannot legally leave it and become a Roman rite believer unless you receive a dispensation from Rome. Let’s say I am French but was born and raised in Ukraine. Because I am French, I am forever attached to the Roman church and cannot be a married priest of the Ukrainian church, for example, because I am not actually Ukrainian (unless I jump through a million hoops and get a dispensation from the pope). Does that make sense? The Romans actually divide their believers by ethnicity or nationality. The Orthodox have nothing like this. So yet again the Romans will gaslight us and tell us that we’re the true ethno-nationalists. Unbelievable!
People in the Orthodox faith are more often than not ethno-nationalists (or just nationalists, since that's what it means), which is good as it's the healthy thing to be, just not in terms of the church. I don't think even the most "racist" (I hate that word) Greek would turn a Turk away from coming to Christ just because they are worldly enemies and they want to protect their nation.
2054 !!!!!! Then 1000 years
If you watch the clip you’ll learn that 1054 was not really the beginning of the schism. But 1014.
@@OrthodoxEthos 2014 ?
@@denisbrat491 Yes. He explains this in this video.
Oh let's just re-invent the wheel
That’s what happened in the west. Unfortunately.
@@OrthodoxEthos yep. We know and we have known for ages so let's learn about other more edifying stuff
A PROBLEM OF BISHOP FOR THE SPIRITUAL AND TEMPOREL POWER DURING 1000YEARS IT S ENOUGH?ORTHODOXY HAVE OTHER MOST IMPORTANT PROBLEMS.
33
GREAT MISTAKES OF THE ORTHODOX
Does the son come out of the Son??? OBVIOUSLY, the First Christians have a problem: God is the Father forever and always the same and was never someone's Son, but there is no Father without pigs forever. The Father is the First but as the Father and the Son is the First but as the Son otherwise they are equal and the same being!! That is why Jesus in the Revelation takes the title: I am the First and the Last!!!!! Otherwise he would not be equal to God!! There is no CHRONOLOGY because God is a Name and not a surname. The Father and the Son are completely equal in nature and the image of Love in the image (singlaur) of male and female is the image of Eternal Love in the invisible Intimacy of the Holy Spirit, which complements the image of the Trinity, i.e. the Family.
The Holy Spirit descends on the incarnated Son on the Jordan because Jesus descended on human nature: what does He come forth from the Father and the Son mean?? the state of equals in the image of an isosceles triangle of the same equal and different forever and completely one in tradition: the emanation of the spirit from the Father: However, God is Spirit by nature and the Son and the Father have this nature as equals. We cannot literally describe in human language that state of the Exodus of equals.
It is a fallacy that the Father is the First in a chronological sense, because the earthly father also comes into existence at the moment of the conception of his son, and before that he is not a father. And God the Father is always the same and is always the same because he always has a son. Otherwise, God would not be a living and personal God, that is, he would not exist.
Why is the state of equals important! the son is Equal to the Father as a unique uncreated son (that's why the Only Begotten is used) which is different from the created sons of God eg Deuteronomy 32 where the Most High is the Father of his created sons among whom is YHVH himself who was not created and who had to incarnate in Jacob! By the way, we also have the combination of the name YHVH the Most High used by Abraham because the sharers of the same name are YHVH (as son) and YHVH the Most High (as father), and God is a Name and not a surname, and that is why we are baptized in the Name and not the plural name or surname! I repeat, there is no chronology. The outpouring of the Spirit in the relationship between the Father and the Son is a mutual relationship, not a chronological one. If God the Father is the only true God, it is because he is the Father by the only true Son!! That's why Jesus says in the Revelation: I am the First and the Last, and he takes that title on himself! and the Father has the same title because the Father is the Father of the son and vice versa. that is why the Name of God in the heavenly liturgy (Isaiah 6) is constantly and without ceasing to be sanctified THREE TIMES!!! and that is why we were baptized in the Name of the Father and the Son and the Spirit and not names or surnames.
THERE ARE ALSO MISCONCEPTIONS REGARDING THE POPE'S PRIMATENESS WHICH WAS NOT DEFINED AT THE TIME AND THAT IS FIRST AMONG EQUALS. and therein lies the problem, and taking the title of Ecumenical Patriarch indicates the temptation to usurp that title, which was not challenged in that way before.
common thread that runs through protestants, orthodox and radical trads - hatred of the pope which goes against the very words of Jesus. so who is behind the hatred? any guesses?
You imagine hatred so as to avoid the truth of things historically, theologically and spiritually. This is the classic reaction of pope-maniacs: they hate us and they are “anti-catholic” and that is why they oppose papal protestantism. The only thing we should and do hate is sin; never the sinner. Sin - missing the mark of salvation - is worthy of all hatred, for one who truly loves their neighbor will hate the lose of their neighbor to the demons.
@@OrthodoxEthos hatred seeps through the orthodox against the pope. perhaps it's hard to see it when you generate it. at least protestants acknowledge it. now, what truths that are historical, theological and spiritual are catholics trying to avoid? any examples. so far orthodox produce generalities against the catholic church, just like muslims bring up generalities against christians e.g. Bible is corrupt. where are the details? where are the specifics? let's talk.
I've begun praying for your Pope as of late, as well as a number of other highly visible and influential people; I'm sure there are many more seasoned Orthodox Christians who love God much more than I do, doing the same and more.
If I desire to have a hatred for anything, it is sin, and heresy near the top of the list, because heresy separates us from God.
I reject Papal Infallibility and Papal Supremacy, Absolute Divine Simplicity, and the eternal procession of the Holy Spirit from the Father AND the Son.
Heresy, all of it, and a great cause of atheism in the West. The name of God is blasphemed among the nations because of our collective unrighteousness and lack of love, the Orthodox and the heterodox, everyone who dares to call themselves Christians. May God have mercy on us.
@@nicodemuseam you are in a heretical position - reject pope is like rejecting Peter when he was here on earth. square that one of. pride over what God constituted here, unworthy of being a christian. you know what caused islam - this attitude. 5 centuries before orthodox, there was another sect that claimed they know better than the church, so they went off, as they didn't agree with the pope on the teaching of Trinity. you have fallen into the same trap.
@@artifexdei3671
Clearly, I'm wasting my time.
You dodge the issue of the heretical Vatican dogmas and instead accuse me directly of heresy for refusing to bend the knee to Pope Francis, the manifest heretic, who kissed the Quran and has worshipped with Muslims and Rabbinical Jews and other pagans. Has he repented? Your church should defrock him, but they can't do that, can they?
No thank you. If the occupant of the Holy Roman See was Orthodox, I would call him father, and I would embrace him with my whole heart.
No unity without Truth! Unity without Truth is heresy! God forbid!
This is my observation on the filioque.We all agree with the Trinity.The 1st point is do we agree that when Jesus walked this earth and was teaching and healing and performing miracles was he embodied with the Holy Spirit.I believe yes.When did the apostles receive the Paraclete or the Holy spirit. Only after Jesus promised that they would receive it after his passion and resurrection.If Jesus did not do this no man would have access to the Holy Spirit.As far as the clergy and lay people are concerned .The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son, denial of this diminishes the great sacrifice our Lord Jesus Christ made for all sinners for we would not have acces to the Spirit without Jesus. I know i'm just a dumb mechanic to me its just common sense nothing comes to us from nothing.
This is the stance that the orthodox took at the reunion council of Florence but Rome rejected it and said no “ the spirit proceeds eternally from the father and the son as from one principle”. Meaning not concerning our reception of the Holy Spirit but of the origin of the Holy Spirit. This the orthodox and the saints reject
The eternal procession is one thing, the temporal mission another. The first is described as PROCEEDING FROM THE FATHER. The Lord’s words. The Second is described as being “sent” by the Son. The Franks and Latins confuse the two. They departed from the Nicene Creed, the standard. Rome, rejecting this departure, agreed not to change the Creed at the 8th Oecumenical… About 150 years later the now Frankish Pope caved to the Franks and walked away from the unity of the Church and the Apostolic Faith confessed in Nicea-Constantinople.
@@OrthodoxEthos Sergius IV was not a Frank but was born and bred in the city of Rome. You actually don't get an ethnically Frankish pope until 996...well after the Frankish Empire had disintegrated. The Frankish Empire had essentially lost its influence both politically and over the bishops of Rome by the mid-late 9th century. The popes in the 10th and early 11th centuries were mostly puppets of Roman noble families like the Crescentii and Theophylacti families, who struggled with the Saxon Ottonian Dynasty (which had links to the East Romans by marriage) of the Holy Roman Empire for control in Rome.
I know you mean well, but please stop promoting Romanidean revisionism. He was just plain wrong on his history.
@@alexanderbrown5900 It's not only Romanides... the primary sources in Greek often label them as Frankish. Romanides just brought it to the attention of more people in the West. He was spot on and consistent with how East Romans saw the history of the West unfold in conflict with itself.
Also, in this context, being “Frankish” doesn’t merely or even primarily refer to one’s ethnicity, but to one’s ethos and mentality. The Normans were not exactly Frankish either, given they fought wars with the Franks and carved out a Duchy for themselves in the North of France (eventually they would intermarry, but that is beside the point), and yet they came to embody the Frankish spirit and ethos and export it far and wide. So the Ottonians being of Saxon origin and Pope Sergius IV not being a Frank born in Francia, changes nothing really; because the ethos and mentality, the imperial universe that the Franks had created, lived on and birthed the West as it would come to be known. And the exact ethnicity of the persons involved doesn’t detract from that. Whether a specific person was Frankish, Visigothic, Lombard, or Saxon changes nothing, because the ethos and mentality of that Region was Frankish; much as in the East it didn’t matter if one was Greek, Italo-Roman, Gallo-Roman, Hispano-Roman, Syrian, etc, one was still considered Roman regardless of one’s ethnicity. Because it’s primarily about ethos and mentality, and not about blood.
@@johncoffman1990
This whole "Frankish Mentality" thing is not historically accurate. Why? Because the Patriarchate of Rome itself did not have a single mentality. It's not an East Roman mindset vs a Frankish one. It's a papal monarchy one vs an Orthodox one...and the latter still existed in Western Europe even AFTER the schism of 1054 for several decades. This can be found in the battles surrounding the Gregorian Reforms and Investiture Controversy in the mid-late 11th/early 12th centuries. It's in the primary source documents of the time if you want to read them. I recommend Ulrich of Imola's letter to Nicholas II and Benzo of Alba's letter to Emperor Henry IV.
The Ottonians had good relations with the East Romans, as good as two powers could have in the 10th century...there were certainly territorial disputes, as accounted for in the works of Bishop Liutprand of Cremona (an emissary of Emperor Otto I). In fact, Princess Zoe was on her way to marry Emperor Otto III before his untimely death. He himself was half Saxon, half Greek and was quite influenced by East Roman culture. He and the quite un-papist Pope Sylvester II worked tirelessly for the Renovatio imperii Romanorum program. That doesn't sound very "Frankish" to me. Even Charlemagne himself was enamored with Romanity, as evidenced by the Carolingian Renaissance...just look at the architecture. He also saw his work as a Renovatio imperii Romanorum. Did he have some bad apples in his court? Absolutely...Alcuin of York, Paulinus of Aquileia, and Theodulf of Orleans were definitely filioquists and probably the authors of the heresy to begin with. I'm trying to do more research surrounding these figures.
Pope Nicholas I himself did not have good relations with the Carolingian kings nor some metropolitan bishops in his patriarchate, Archbishop Hincmar of Reims among them. He may have been the first pope to make supremacy claims in ecclesiastical matters, but it was not until Hildebrand of Sovana (Gregory VII) in the 11th century that you get the papal monarchy in both spiritual and temporal matters with the Papal Dictates. Unfortunately, the doctrine of symphonia was lost in Patriarchate of Rome, as the medieval period can be characterized as a conflict between the Papacy and the various monarchs of Western and Central Europe.
Also, define the "Frankish" mindset for me, because whatever it is, you don't see it either with Charlemagne or the Ottonians.
Charismatic protestants Latin heresy is demonic
TRINITY THE ALPHABET OF THE TRINITY GOD
who is older Father or Son ??
SURNAME as Reincarnation?
THE TRINITY AND THE STAR OF DAVID
Man was created in the image of God, male and female (picturesque). the meaning of the pictorial meaning of the picture should be immediately noticed there. The image of male and female is one and not several of them contains the relationship of two that gives three and yet they are One as ONE image. The image here denotes the One in the Unity of the different simultaneous and equal, of the same divine nature as the One God. The meaning of these relationships within the divinity is the image of Love which is not fruitless but the perfect Fullness of the Spirit (the Absolute as perfect fullness). That is why in the Hebrew language it is referred to as Echad: One in Unity. Spirit is the dignity of the invisible INTIMATE relationship of two as a Trinity (there is 2=3=1)! because Love is always a fullness and gives a flowing child - a fullness of equals in the image of an isosceles triangle in short - the image of a Family! One is a sign for the divine nature as One God (all three are of the same nature and equal but different in personality.
When someone CURSES your father or mother, you react spontaneously because it stems from your Unique connection as Dignity and identity. That is why Marriage is a sacrament - a sign of a unique union. Namely, a person cannot have two fathers or two mothers.
In creation, God depicts his image below: the image of an isosceles triangle that makes a Covenant with the bottom image of an isosceles triangle-the sign of EQUALS that thus forms the Hexagon - the Star of David. The meaning of this soteriological meaning is fulfilled by Jesus who says about himself in the Revelation: I am a shining star Danica, the Offspring of David! And that is the real meaning of the STAR OF DAVID, not some magical esoteric one that serves those who satanize, for example, the Jews.
The Latin translation for Danica is Lucifer, which entered the liturgy as such (Good Friday) and has nothing to do with Satan (Lucifer). It uniquely refers to Christ who is the true light of the world in contrast to the light of the fallen angels and the fallen light-bearer Satan.
However, later that translation (Danica= Lucifer) was also used for Fallen Light-Bearing Satan as Lucifer, i.e. more precisely ""Fallen Lucifer"" = Fallen Light-Bearing. This is how Svjetlonoša differs from Fallen Svjetlonša or Danica and Fall Danica! However, the illiterate and malicious abuse this by satanizing the Catholic Church, which according to them celebrates Lucifer on Good Friday.
Of course, the Jews understand Satan (lucifer) as Ha Satan in the sense of the given service and not the Evil Spirit, and from the Christian perspective, this is an error of a distorted interpretation, which again has nothing to do with the real Satanists who consciously worship and practice evil.
The same thing happens with the accusations against the "Orthodox and their symbols that someone exclusively wants to see as pagan. But, for example, the brass snake that Moses raised in the desert actually points to Christ who was raised on the cross and took our sins. So in that sense, Karl Gustav Jung deals with this interpretation.
Opponents (illiterate and malicious) of the Church find their "evidence" even in cathedrals that have stone demons on their walls, so cathedrals are demonized and Catholics are portrayed as satanists. However, the real meaning of stone demons means in a caricatured sense petrified, i.e. weakened demons!! which once dominated the expanse of space depicted by the stone edifice of the cathedral, while within the space of the cathedral there is an Altar on which Christ, the Conqueror of Demons, is celebrated! This is, for example, clearly described in Colossians 2:15: "He disarms the principalities and powers and exposes them publicly to the MOCK, leading them in the victorious battle of the vanquished with him. So, we are talking about a CARICATURE of petrified, shamed and weakened demons.
Who is older FATHER OR SON ?? in man, father, mother and child are simultaneous and of the same kind-nature, but at the same time different!!
With God, who is ETERNAL, there is no chronology, there is no older one, because He is the One who is as Father, always the same and was never someone's son! but there is no Father forever without the Son forever! The Father is the Father of the Son and vice versa.
God is a NAME and not names - plural or surname! That is why we are baptized in the Name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit! Isaiah 6 declares that the Name of God in the heavenly liturgy is constantly sanctified three times!