Where Do We Go From Here? The Future of Star Wars
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- Mikey finds closure with Rise of Skywalker and we hope you can too.
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Hello! We are Mikey and Teara and we run Filmjoy. We love to watch TV and movies and talk about why they’re art. We occasionally play some games too. We are now a Nebula First channel, check out our latest video before it hits RUclips
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Movies with Mikey is a positive look at film criticism through the eyes of someone who loves movies to an unhealthy degree.
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Words cannot express how much of a positive impact FilmJoy videos have had on my life. I'm just here to say thank you!
That's sweet of you to say, thanks so much!
@@filmjoy that sentiment is held by a bunch of people, btw. myself included.
@@filmjoy You made me love movies and got me started on learning more about them and paying attention to how they're made. Thank you!
@@virgil.alonso AND MY AXE
Yes! I concur! Thank you SO much.
If I ever write a Star Wars story I am going to name a character Lorebur Etos
"Humanity's having a rough one right now, and we'll do better tomorrow" has to be one of the most hopeful and positive things I've heard in a looooooong time
"May the year justify our hope." - John Green
Seemed perfectly relevant, and I wanted to start this new year off with some optimism and insight so came back to this channel.
"nothing stays dead when you're a *brand*" is maybe the most perfect, succinct summation of... hoo boy, a lot of problems in this society. Thanks for closing this saga out for us... the work is so so appreciated.
I mean, in fairness, mythology and folklore is also filled with stories that never end. Like the old Greco-Roman gods just kept having more and more stories piled onto them over thousands of years. Or we're still adding material to the Arthurian canon to this day. And a lot of people look at superhero stories like modern-day mythology, since it tends to serve the same social purpose - just without temples or tithing.
That said, modern companies are probably taking it a bit too far.
@@jasonblalock4429 I imagine there were just as many annoyed fans in the Zeus fandom, getting mad at all the fanservice, pandering and how the poets just would not let the franchise end and kept reviving it every generation.
@@RobinOttens "A swan!? The priests are so lazy, they aren't even trying any more! They've totally ruined the pantheon! #NotMyZeus"
@@jasonblalock4429 Even the comic books involve the old myths.
@callmecatalyst OK, but that wasn't even the point. The point is that humanity has always had these sorts of ever-evolving stories and there's nothing new about it. Also, plenty of people at the time recognized the lore as just being stories. It's hard to tell how many "true believers" there were among the ancient Greeks and Romans and such, but it was far from universal.
(I mean, do you really think the people who figured out they could stick a whorehouse on a hill overlooking the port and call it a "Temple of Aphrodite" were devout believers? 😀)
I think it took Rise of Skywalker to make me finally understand The Last Jedi. I finally understood that it was asking "What do you want from a Star Wars movie?" and I can say now that Rise of Skywalker, for me personally, was the answer "Not that." Return of the Jedi will live with me forever as the first time young me saw a hero choose non-violence as the truly heroic act. Which is why no matter what, it will always be my favorite movie.
Disney has the midas touch ...
except fecal matter instead of gold.
It's funny because that's exactly the thing Luke does at the end of TLJ. I am sure a lot of fans expected Luke to have an epic showdown but he chose the path of non-violence. He merely served as a distraction so that everyone could escape. To me, that was the moment when Luke proved himself to actually be the greatest Jedi who ever lived.
💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯
Meanwhile, I picked up Fallen Order about a week after seeing Rise of Skywalker and thought 'holy shit, THIS is what I want' it felt, looked, and sounded like Star Wars to me. It may not be the best game ever, but it instantly made me believe I was in the Star Wars universe, which RoS just somehow...kind of never did.
That's what I try to communicate to people about why I love TLJ. It pushed Star Wars to a fork in the road. It said "no mulling about. Decide where this is going. Choose a path and move forward." It was exciting. It set up the possibility of Star Wars feeling fresh and new again.
And then Abrams said "lol no," turned tail, and sprinted directly backwards.
You made a lifelong friend of me when you showed unabashed enjoyment of Flash Gordon in Deep Dive and turned a guilty pleasure into a celebration of just letting the thing I like be the thing I like. Six months shy of turning 50, I saw the original Star Wars in a drive-in, bigger than life. To me it's always been a representation of possibility in a galaxy far far away. At one point I did grow bitter at what was being done to my "childhood". But as an artist I had to learn that imperfections are part of the the recipe for inspiration; an itch that can only be scratched by learning from what's been done and doing better next time.
Please don’t ever change the intro to this series. It makes me smile every time without fail.
"The world needs more compassion right now, not less". Couldn't agree more. I love you, Mikey!
I think what's caused me the most fatigue with Star Wars is that they've got this universe of unlimited potential, but they keep clinging to how they can make everything connect back to this one family (or I guess to two). Even in Star Wars Rebels (my favorite of the animated Star Wars come on and fight me) we get a silhouette of a young Luke on the farm at one point, and we just... didn't need that. We're allowed to play in this sandbox without having to come back to the same mold. I want to see the adventures that could be had with the ruleset that we've got, like homebrewing a D&D campaign instead of using the modules. Let's just go fucking wild and have some fun.
Part of the problem is that a large chunk of the fan base lose their minds with the slightest deviation from what they love. If they did explore a story and not, in some way, connect to the original trilogy there would be a huge backlash.
I’d personally love to see something that explores the origins of the Jedi/discovery of the Force. Like, a Star Wars historical film.
This is why Rogue One, the Endor movies, and to a markedly lesser extent, Solo, slaps. We got breaks from space opera melodrama to do something different, where the central pieces of the story were smaller and the stakes were largely different.
@@Feralhyena
The Endor movies huh?
That's a . . . a pretty _bold_ position to take.
I happen to completely agree, but I fear we represent a minority ...
But that would be unfamiliar, and people would stop watching and giving us money
#starwarsisdead
@@somanytakennames "Part of the problem is that a large chunk of the fan base lose their minds with the slightest deviation from what they love."
Do they?
I'm not saying they don't, I go out of my way to avoid the Star Wars fandom because I really like Star Wars and don't want them ruining it for me, but... for me, that's literally when Star Wars (post original trilogy) is at it's absolute best - showing us creative new worlds, new cultures, new plots... all of things that require good screen writing, something the large studios seem to have a real problem hiring people to do.
I definitely feel the 7 8, 7 9 dichotomy. The two Star Wars movies I want most are the IX that’s an actual follow up to the VIII we got and the VIII that actually sets up the IX we got…
Holy shit, this is exactly how I've felt about it but I've never been able to put it this well.
I think this video did help me realize that also. I don't really hate 9 I just feel incomplete without a 9 that follows 8 and I know I'll never get it.
This is such a good way to put it omg
this is the thing i dislike most about 9. it has nothing to do with 8, and i honestly think 8 is the best of the new films. to ignore 8 and just move on was a really sad decision.
7 and 9 are fine.
8 was great. 9 should have been better.
I always found that 9 built on the ideas and concepts of 8.
Things like the Dyad grew from the groundwork of 8, Finn’s whole story arc from 7-9 has its key moments in 8 (the point where he actually chooses a side), Poe’s steps towards being the leader of the Resistance are laid out in 8 and paid off in 9. I would have loved to see more of Kylo as the Supreme Leader of the First Order, but at the same time his entire motivation and actions in 9 are the consequences of his interactions with Rey.
The only thing that to me jars a bit is that 9 throws away the Rey nobody concept very early on, but at the same time, being the daughter of a failed Palpatine clone that was basically just thrown away kinda still makes her a nobody - a nobody that chooses who she is by trilogy’s end.
The "stories have a beginning, a middle, a middle, a middle..." thing has been core to the operation of Marvel/DC comics for a long time; I wonder if our current Content Cyclone will be able to take any lessons from what has worked (and not worked) over there. For me, the best comics operating in that space are those that have a specific artistic point of view and don't get too concerned about continuity. But comics are (relatively) cheap to make, so maybe it's easier to take artistic risks there than it is in film/TV. Gotta keep people subscribed to the streaming service!!!
i assume that, despite it all, the powerful people at the top of the disney tree look at all of it as having ‘worked’, because it all made tons of cash. I can’t help thinking disneys cyclone was more of calculated business choice to see how hard and how long one can milk the star wars cow. Now they are learning how long they need to wait to go again
I have loved comics as a medium my whole life but really only read marvel/dc as a kid/teen. Just curious if you have any newish recs that have cool artistic povs. I'll read pretty much anything. Recently read The Incal for the first time, really liked some of those pages as art.
This is what film discourse should look like on the internet. "You don't don't have to tear others down to build yourself up."
👆👆👆
tfw you open the comments at exactly the right time to read this quote as Mikey says it
Whoa
Except this is not neutrality, this is a soup of randomly picked ideas and contradicting ideas thrown together,
YOU HAVE BEEN DUPED
Agreed. I admit, that can be hard for me, especially since my biggest criticism of the film is that it feels like it's trying to tear down The Last Jedi. Two different films with interesting ideas, going in two VERY different directions.
Exactly. There's enough shitty behaviour in the world. We don't need to be fighting with the people who like the same things we do just because they like different things about it.
“You don’t have to tear other people down to build yourself up.” That’s always something that needs to be said over and over again.
If you ever need something new and weird to look at, I wonder if you’re familiar with The SCP Foundation. What started as a 4chan creepypasta has grew into a worldwide creative writing community with thousands of authors, tens of thousands of stories, and people like me trying to go around the Hollywood system to make independent films based on this Creative Commons community.
We all need to work together to make something great. You inspire me at least to do that. 😌✊
Inclusive, compassionate Star. Wars commentary? This is why FilmJoy is such a gem. You don't ever have to talk about Star Wars again, you said the important part.
Hello Claire and how are you doing?
Thanks for doing this last one.
I enjoyed RoS as the campy, fun watch, but I do wish it had been a direct sequel to TLJ. That's my gripe and one day I'll find the same peace you have.
For now I've decided not to consume more star wars.
"JJ Abrams made a sequel to his own movie and not The Last Jedi" yeah, that…was one of my problems with it lol
In a nutshell. He really went out of his way to ignore TLJ
maybe we shouldn't let nerds make story decisions while an ongoing story is being told
actually, better yet, maybe we should plan out movie trilogies before they get made instead of spinning a wheel that says "star wars" and looking at the audience for approval like a contestant on the price is right
@@hotelmario510 Thats my issue. 7 does not feel like it has a real connection to 8 and 9 most certainly does not. 7 and 9 have a connection, its strained as all hell but its there. I just wish someone had set up a solid framework for the movies.
JJ 100% ignored and retconned TLJ, but that's after Rian ignored and retconned TFA to the moon and back.
AND TLJ made half the box office TFA did. Disney panicked and wanted JJ to fix it, which was a terrible mistake.
@@FalconPaladin Honestly not having someone as the overarching visionary was a terrible mistake from the off. JJ either should have been the guy to lay out the entire frame work and leave Rian to do what he wanted within that framework or JJ should have done all three.
7,8 / 7,9 is pretty legit. I found RoS to be goofy-if-fine on release, but in time, the lack of respect for internal coherence within the trilogy itself is what pushed me away from wherever Star Wars is going, and that's okay. It changes, and I change. I'll always be a little disappointed that The Last Jedi didn't get its ending, but it ultimately was my ending. It seems like that might never have been in the cards in its own way. It is a kind of unsatisfying mirror of this kind of dissatisfying world.
What ending didn't The Last Jedi get?
Could you explain what he meant by 78, 79? I didn't quite understand what that means. Is that the order that we should watch them?
@@dudetheman3 It's saying IX pretended TLJ didn't exist, but TLJ can still be viewed as a sequel to TFA because it picks up right where TFA left off. In other words, it's saying there's no way to view the sequels as a cohesive trilogy, which is b.s.
I feel the same way about the third nolan batman. It ended perfectly on the second one, it doesnt matter which way it goes. I feel the same about tokyo drift lol
@@2QAYL1138 It didn't get the ending/payoff/follow-up in nine. Nine just sort of does it's own thing.
Extremely stoked for the "Everything Everywhere All At Once" episode.
Do you love it?
I AM SO EXCITED TO SEE MIKEY TALK ABOUT EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE ALL THE TIME
It's my new favorite movie and I'll probably watch the Movies with Mikey essay on it as many times as I watch the actual movie (twice so far, but I just got the blu ray).
I think that movie would be the The Matrix of this generation if there were less pandemic on...
Hello Allison and how are you?
Rise of Skywalker is probably a great sequel to Force Awakens, but it just hurts because of how dear I hold The Last Jedi. Those feelings feel invalidated by all this movie did to undo the work that movie did. Visually beautiful and amazing concepts, just so hard to reconcile. Could I enjoy the prequel trilogy if I started on Attack of the Clones and skipped the first movie? Probably, but watching them in the intended order makes the franchise better. As a cohesive story, the trilogy is at war with itself.
I was looking forward to this video for so, so long, and I'm glad to see it finally arrive. Love ya Mikey, gonna miss your takes on Star Wars but can't wait to see what you come up with next.
I was in a similar position, but TROS has actually grown on me with a couple rewatchings and time to digest it. Yeah, it does handwave away a couple elements of TLJ to my annoyance, but 9 doesn't totally disregard 8 either. In particular, I like that it helps justify Luke's sacrifice by directly referencing Crait and contrasting it against how hopeful the galaxy has become.
Also, I kind of loved that Hux becomes a Starscream because of his humiliation at the end of 8. That's hilarious.
I love looking at the ST through the lens of the Rey/Ben force dyad. It’s the only thread that runs strongly through all three movies and it has a really satisfying arc.
I love The Last Jedi, and The Rise of Skywalker only made me love it more. What is it that feels most dissonant to you, if you don't mind my asking?
I really enjoyed Rise of Skywalker in the cinema, but it was on reflection that I realised everything in it was perfect except the script.
These days, I kinda just ignore it. You don't need it. The Last Jedi is a better end to the story anyway.
My last viewing order went like this:
1. The Force Awakens as a flash forward.
2. Solo as a flash back. We've just seen Han die so there's great connective tissue there.
3. Rogue One, A New Hope, Enpire Strikes Back (I'm leaning into Machete order here).
4. Flash back again to Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith to give context to Vader's fall and highlight the mirroring between ROTS and...
5. Return if the Jedi.
6. Then jump forward to The Last Jedi to get the closure on the saga. It ends with the Resistance refostering hope and the rebirth of the Jedi while Kylo has completely fallen and lost everything in his inheritance of a crippled First Order. There will always be Star Wars, but there will also always be hope.
I left out Rise of Skywalker because it ends the same way as Return of the Jedi making me feel like "what's the point". I left out The Phantom Menace for pacing. Also, there's nothing important in it that isn't repeated later. Also also, without TPM, Maul's appearance at the end of Solo serves to answer the question of Snoke's identity; he is Snoke, younger and in war paint. He usurped the remains of the empire and folded it into the Crimson Sun to make the first order (I know he didn't in canon bit if you watch it this way its the logical conclusion).
So, yeah, bit of a ramble, but if you're looking for an order to maximise the story, that's what I use (it doesn't work as a first time order obviously cos spoilers but what can you do?)
Yeah, I remember really liking how TLJ was shifting away from the particular Heroes Journey that SW popularized and then all media after it just assumed was the only way to ever tell a story. At some point you just get tired of it and it gets harder to tell stories about other themes. Like how are you supposed to tell stories about social movements or justice when we rely on chosen ones and powerful individuals going through ordeals.
You made video essays on episode vii and episode viii. With this essay on episode ix, I hold your oath fulfilled. Go, be at peace.
The positive vibes from your show/brand/team are what keep me going sometimes. Thank you.
I think we are a generation of people who took our hobbies and made them our entire personality. We put too much thought and energy in Marvel or Star Wars or whatever that it is so hard to just enjoy anything for what it is.
That's what kind of makes me sad about the modern fandom. Being a Star Wars fan was so much less emotionally exhausting in the early 90s. We just hung out on AOL or Usenet and geeked out over ship specs, and joked about the bad dialogue, and people rarely got too butthurt about anything. Even a new book or comic being a stinker didn't rate much more than an "Oh well."
And then the Special Editions happened, and it's all been downhill since. Sigh.
We don't enjoy them because they are poorly made and poorly written.
You don't even have to even big fan of these things to know the newer stuff contradicts the old and just isn't as good.
So basically fandoms sort of adopted a fundamentalist religious fevre
@@poenpotzu2865 Basically
I liked the part where Rey teleported the lightsaber to Kylo that was cool. I didn't really like most of the other bits but I already forgot about those parts lol.
that 7-8, 7-9 comment really summed up what frustrated me most about 9. I liked 8 more than most people I know. I think it was an interesting direction and was excited to see where it would go! I fully bought in to the silly stupid of it all and was ready to enjoy 9.
9 ignored 8. My disappointment that 9 just *ignored* the previous movie was all I could focus on. All of these plot elements that the movie introduced that hadn't been set up in the previous movies really annoyed me because I didn't feel like this was part 3 of a trilogy, I felt like it was just a standalone movie. I just did not enjoy 9 as a viewer because of that disconnect... though if 9 had been a more coherent standalone film I probably could have enjoyed it despite it ignoring 8. 9 was just not an especially good movie on an island; it felt like it was at a frantic pace nearly always trying to introduce all the things it needed to have set up to go where it wanted to go (hey another issue that could've been solved if the 8th movie had set up the 9th in any way)
I think the backlash against episode 8 is a lot more circumscribed than it seems online. I don't know ANYONE who disliked Last Jedi and liked Rise of Skywalker. I know people who don't like Star Wars at all; I know people who only like the original trilogy; I know people who like everything BESIDES episode 9. I have never met anyone who's as down on The Last Jedi as parts of the internet are.
I loved this, and always enjoy your perspective. I almost always find myself agreeing with it, too.
Rise of Skywalker was the movie that made me stop *caring* about Star Wars, and I think that's a good thing. I was putting too much stock into something I had no control or ownership over, and it's allowed me to enjoy it on a healthier level. I had fun with Mandalorian, and I was surprised how much I enjoyed Kenobi. Star Wars is at its most fun when they're doing something fun with it, and I'm having the most fun when I'm not hoping they settle one character dynamic one way instead of the other.
Thanks Mikey, and as always, great video.
It will always be my belief that if star wars kept down Rian Johnson's path it would have done to the last Jedi what time did to empire. The last Jedi has some dumb stuff, but I think it still poses an interesting path that, if followed could've made a subversive take on what a star wars is.
It doesn’t really subvert very much by the end of the film.
I don't think it makes sense to start subverting the story in film 8 of 9. If anyone is tired fo the Skywalker story at any point in the 9 film journey, that's fine, but then give up SW or pivot to other SW stories, don't try to subvert an entire story during the penultimate chapter. But that's precisely what Rian Johnson did. What's even more crazy than that is that if he hadn't;t have done that, he'd have his own trilogy to tell his own non Skywalker story now, but he dropped the ball to hard with 8.
@@tonyvindett87 I wouldn't really call Episode 8 'subversive.' Having your characters face hardship and uncertainty at the middle point in the story is just, like, 3 act structure. The film ends by reaffirming the value of all the things called into question. It's more of a 'reconstruction' - finding a new path to the same outcome. A hypothetical episode 9 that wasn't... awful... wouldn't need to be a radically subversive film to naturally follow Last Jedi. The only plot beat from the old trilogy that wouldn't really work would be a Kylo Ren redemption arc, but changing ONE thing about an established story structure is not subversive; if you're not gonna change anything why retell the story at all?
I think people who act like Last Jedi was some radical, Watchmen-esque deconstruction have just never played KOTOR II. THAT story is deconstructive.
@@sumanoskae That's not what I'm calling subversive. What they did with Luke, Rey, Finn, rose, Yoda, etc. was subversive. They completely changed the characters.
@@tonyvindett87 Luke maybe, but not the others. Finn goes through the same basic arc he already went through - if anything he got short changed by a LACK of character growth.
Rey as a character doesn't change, they just decided to not do the obvious twist with her parents. Because Ryan Johnson recognized that you can't just impose Luke's story onto her and have it accomplish the same thing. Instead he paid attention to the PURPOSE of Luke's twist; it was the hardest thing Luke could have heard. He did the same thing for Rey, he took away her security blanket.
Rose was literally introduced IN THAT MOVIE so I'm not sure how she could have been subverted?
And even in the case of Luke, I would argue that Force Awakens already changed him. Ryan Johnson was left to decide why Luke was in hiding - J.J already decided that he didn't return to save Han or help Leia.
But if Luke showed up as the invincible grandmaster from Legends, he would have deflated the narrative of all tension IMMEDIATELY. Instead he goes through this beautiful redemption arc, overcoming a crisis of faith to save the next generation. Just the IDEA of Luke Skywalker turns the tide of the war. That's much more thematically appropriate for a story ABOUT legacy and legends passed down through generations.
I love the empathy and compassion that is inherently there in your content. You videos always make me smile and have a better day. Filmjoy is the absolute best name for this channel as it's not only about loving movies and the art that goes into them, but it also brings tons of people joy. Keep doing what you're doing Mikey.
Some powerful sentiments here but I really just wanna give you a high-five for all the well-deserved "Flash Gordon" slander.
Hello 👋 and how are you doing today?
you are consistently my favorite movie focused video essayist. so thoughtful and compassionate, finding things i’ve never seen in films that i can never un-see. genuinely amazing perspectives i can never un-see. god bless you, dude.
His compassionate plea/rant at the end of the Iron Giant video after (I believe) the Florida nightclub shooting absolutely cemented him as one of my favourite creators on the platform.
Here for any and all content you want to make. And very much appreciated the Beginning-Middle Middle Middle Middle observation. So true.
The fact that people tend to hold onto the SW they hate more than the ones they like reminds me of Thoughtslime's video on Superman - they explain that when you say "that's not my Superman" you mean "I disagree with the morals of this story."
I think Star Wars is much the same - it's somehow camp layered over profound observations on government and morality, layered over camp, layered over intense and personal explorations of trauma and love, layered over a central core of camp. And it's really hard to tell which layer someone took issue with, but it's usually the combination and proportion of those layers more than anything in specific.
I had problems with this movie, but I had fun. Ian Mcdiarmid was living his best life, I have never seen an actor have so much fun in a movie. John Williams score was amazing, and if you did not grin when all those ships showed up you need help.
ian mcdiarmid might be having the most fun in every star war he is in and it's always fun watching him show just how thick a slice of ham he can stick to the wall
How you manage to be one of the most cosmically uplifting humans while talking about small, mundane stuff like not liking Star Wars anymore continues to astound me. You're AWESOME. Thank you for making things.
Nah, Rey becoming a Skywalker doesn't make sense because she has no real relationship with a Skywalker. Leia explicitly rejected the Skywalker name, and Luke was never a true father figure to Rey. Not to mention that the Skywalkers are very explicitly a Big Dynasty, so Rey joining them ruins the whole "dynasties don't matter" message. So, "Rey Skywalker" just feels like an empty attempt at brand synergy.
And I say that as someone who ADORES Rey.
this is also still where i’m at. i *know* what the writers want you to think it means (found family etc etc) but it’s insulting when i also know that it’s just branding.
Yeah I am sorry but she is Rey Solo, she is closest to Leia Organa-Solo. Maybe she could have picked Rey Organa but she was also close to Han for the brief time they where together and her connections to Ben. So yeah Rey Solo makes more sense for her character.
@@TheLastSane1 I honestly wish she would have just... Not chosen a last name? You don't need that to find a family. The movie could have shown her just being with her new friends in the resistance, they're her new family.
@@guyr3618 I mean yeah but most characters in the universe have a surname. She isn't Madonna or Cher or Zendaya or something. But yeah a made up last name would have worked too.
Solo I just thought made sense, she was close to the Solos (who also got their name because Han just picked it up for himself) and she is the last Jedi or person to have any memory or access to the old order she is alone, ie Solo.
One thing I really love about rise of skywalker was finally having a payoff to obiwan said to vader in 1977 "if you strike me down I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine" and at the climax of the film we finally get to see that power in action. It was pretty fun
I think part of why I've had so much trouble finding my peace with Rise of Skywalker is because of how it just disrupts the idea that anything can be "true" in Star Wars. Up until that point, there was a story to follow. It was a silly weird somewhat nonsensical story, but the numbered films had a throughline that you could understand. Star Wars as a brand has always been a Lore Slurry. Keeping track of which supplemental material was and wasn't "canon" at any given time was probably somebody's full time job/hobby. But through all that, the numbered films were the baseline. The thing you could come back to and say "Despite everything, at least this much is true". But now that 8 and 9 are out which just fundamentally disagree with each other's existence, there's no floor any more. There isn't a main story of Star Wars to come back to. And I think that's a little sad.
Thank you for making this Mikey. It didn't help me like Rise any more, but it might have helped me move on from Star Wars as a whole. Reminded me its ok to just not care anymore, even if I wish I could.
“Reminded me it’s okay to just not care anymore, even if I wish I could” hit me in my soul. I’m sad you have to be out here with me, but I’m so grateful to not be alone.
Man, whenever I see one of these videos pop up in my feed I know I’m going to have a good day (with an existential crisis or two). Keep being a positive force in this world man
I'm not a fan of IX, but that's not the point. I can totally understand that Mike is over it with Star Wars. As great of an impact the franchise had the fanbase is just so frustrating right now and it success the joy out of the whole thing.
Always, always worth the wait. Best film channel on YT.
Heres the thing about star wars. When the prequels came out 35 year olds who were kids when the OT came out shat all over them, kids loved them. Now those kids are adults and thats why theres alot of "well actually the prequels were good" going on now.
But those same adults are the new 35 year olds shitting on the new movies. I promise you kids love them and in 20 years "well actually the sequels were good" will happen because, and I cant stress this enough, *Star Wars is not made for 35 year old men* Its for kids. It's space adventures for kids who like spaceships and shit.
A lot of it is, but why does it need to be only for one group of people?
Yeah except I don’t think kids like the new movies … the sequel toys don’t sell like the original and prequels .
@@mackmitchell94 because we have tablets and cell phones and roblox now for kids. It was a different time in the prequel era. Hell even the toys that ARE made are for the 35 year olds because they are the only ones who care that much.
It’s anecdotal but my kids love the new films 🤷🏻♂️
@@mackmitchell94 the prequel toys didn't do that great either. They were quickly in the dollar clearance bins.
@@Derchlands I mean, all toys end up on clearance, it’s not like they’re gonna be selling out all the time. But I remember when we were kids, we had a good number of the lightsabers, action figures and of course the lego sets.
You don't have to tear down others to build yourself up. You don't have to tear down other good movies to others seem not as bad.
I'm still letting my feelings gestate and firm about the whole thing, this is definitely a video I have to chew slowly so to speak, but little bit right at the end, is that the chords to That Funny Feeling from Inside?
It definitely is, another example of Mikey being next level.
As someone who genuinely likes most Star Wars and has been in the fandom since the 90s, I just want to say: enjoy the Star Wars that you enjoy, and let others enjoy the Star Wars they enjoy. Please?
The franchise is too big and sprawling for everyone to like *everything* that gets released. Everyone is going to have entries they like and dislike, and rarely will two people's rankings match up. Star Wars will never be able to truly please all the people, all the time. But if Star Wars pleases you at least *some* of the time, then enjoy that much of it, and leave the rest for others to enjoy.
I wholeheartedly agree with your “Star Wars has always been stupid” point. People take this stuff so seriously and it’s akin to being really serious about Power Rangers or MXC.
I think the problem with RoS is that they didn’t know which stupid stuff was the good stupid stuff. Little retro glass electronic doohickey that has flashing dots and is a map to a very specific place? Cool stupid. Knife that has the contour of a crashed ship and an arrow that points to where that thing would be? Actually just stupid.
If the knife thing happened in the 80s or 90s people would've forgiven it. During the whole first half of The Rise of Skywalker I was nodding my head going "oh ok, we're doing a love letter to 80s treasure hunting Indiana Jones/Goonies etc." and I was on board. I liked it. Once you look at it like that it becomes a lot of fun.
I don't see the problem with taking a piece of art seriously simply because its aesthetic is exaggerated or absurd...
A story can be offbeat and humorous while also challenging its audience and making a point.
I watched Rise on opening day and went home frustrated, angry, and really bothered by the quality of it. And then I talked to my dad, who was at the opening day premier of the original and talked about how that movie just changed his life by showing him how big a story can be while still connecting with everyday people and their need to create and grow. And he said he loved it because, not matter what Star Wars is, it's Star Wars, its more of a thing he loved. And that changed my perspective, and I went back to the theatre a week later and watched the movie in a new light. I found myself laughing, crying, connecting, and ultimately just enjoying that we still live in a world with new Star Wars. And since then I've seen the franchise through that lens. It is too much effort to hate this thing, and far easier and more enjoyable to just accept the simple fact I now view this whole franchise through: All Star Wars is Good Star Wars!
+
That's right, don't think - just consume
When I sit down to watch Star Wars, I instantly become 12 years old again. The recent Obi-Wan Kenobi show reminded me of that and I just can't bring myself to be upset that there is SO MUCH STAR WARS to be enjoyed.
If one movie wasn't as strong as it could have been, that's easier to forgive when there are ten other Star Wars movies out there to watch.
It's all good stuff. I'm just glad it exists.
I called my dad after I saw rise and said, " it was good. It was good, I think... It was really long." And he remarked, sounds like you didn't really enjoy it. And I sat there and tried to defend it, but the more I thought about it the angrier I got.
The movies ( and boba Fett TV show) just feel like a cash grab for me. There are stories they can tell that are great, they just need a plan in place and a script written before shooting schedule.
@@TheMaestroso - No one's saying 'just consume, don't think". They're just saying that the good outweighs the bad, so we can focus on what we loved, let the ones you don't like fade away as you move on.
Looking forward to Everything Everywhere All at Once video. My fav movie in a long time
Listen, I'm hardly going to argue that Star Wars hasn't always been dumb.
But Rise of Skywalker is one of the few movies that has made me actively angry as I watched it. The script evinces such contempt for its audience from *literally the first sentence of the opening crawl* that I don't think you can just shrug. There's not a story here, not really, just a bunch of storyboards that Abrams liked placed one after the other, hoping you won't notice that in two hours they go through like four goddamn Macguffins.
I don't get the "contempt for its audience" thing. fans shouldn't take a bad film personally.
@@Scrapluv I read "contempt for its audience" in the sense that it's made without effort or care in terms of cohesion or narrative structure. To use salvation122's example: re-introducing a key villain everyone though was dead, at the final movie of the trilogy, is already sloppy. Doing so with a title crawl is only adding insult to the injury. Palpatine supposedly broadcasted a message throughout the galaxy about his return, except said message, by the way, wasn't even included in the movie, only in Fortnite (lol) and in the novelization. How much money and time was spent working on this movie, only to amount to cheap bait-and-switch fake deaths with Chewie and C3PO, or Fin having a completely abandoned plot thread about 'something he had to tell Rey'?
Also what does that even mean, "not taking it personally"? You pay money to watch it, you're invested in the story, the characters, the world at large, and get basically insulted by the experience instead. If you buy a sandwich and it comes with expired ingredients or raw meat, being upset about it isn't invalid, nor should it be dismissed offhandedly. And at least with the sandwich you can cut people some slack - it was just a cheap snack, whatever was wrong with it probably happened because of a minor distraction or whatever - but the script for a movie at this level of public engagement? There's no hand-waving it as an accident or a misread of audience's expectations, they just made it without caring about the quality of the writing because they knew idiots like me would watch it anyway. That's contempt for the audience.
@@joaoluiz6415 What you described is poor storytelling. That has nothing to do with contempt or feelings towards the audience. The director didn't purposely make a bad film just to spite me or you, Joao Luiz. So no, fans shouldn't take poor writing or bad filmmaking personally, because it has nothing to do with personal intent. Expressing displeasure is one thing, taking it personally is another. That just doesn't make sense to me. If anything, ROS was a kneejerk reaction to the backlash from TLJ and a poor attempt at course correction. That seems like the opposite of contempt for its audience.
@@Scrapluv Ah! Then now we arrive at an interesting impasse: I don't think the poor writing was an accident. Maybe that would be a plausible argument for a small movie studio, but this was a multimillion dollar project. I can't believe all those missteps and lack of cohesion passed through the entire production process unnoticed, thus, I just think, out of cynicism and years of disappointment with the industry, that they noticed and didn't care. Hence, the contempt for the audience. It's an interesting impasse because I can't prove it, of course, just as I can't prove the alternative. Agree to disagree?
Edit: I'm sure there are a lot of passionate, talented people on every level of creation behind the Star Wars franchise, and I don't want to disparage their work, just as I don't want to tell other people off for liking the movie. I'm just arguing that, for me personally, the writing went past anything I could enjoy or appreciate. And it's not that I think they intentionally, personally went out of their way to make it a movie I'd dislike, only that they didn't care. They made my sandwich, noticed that the chicken was completely raw, shrugged and sent it out anyway. Now I have salmonella.
@@joaoluiz6415 But that's not what happened. They made a movie. You didn't like it. That's it. You didn't end up with food poisoning. You ended up with a movie, series, or trilogy you didn't like. However, I'm sure there are other things that you have liked or possibly will.
I think the excuse that Star wars has always been silly is taking a shortcut. I think marvel showed what good writing can do with ridiculous premises, and while not all marvel movies hit the mark by any means, the great ones are so far superior to the latest installment of Star Wars that it gets people frustrated because they know it could be so much better. Well that's how I feel anyway, I'm just guessing that others feel the same - it could have been so much better
yeah I was about to say the same thing. silliness ≠ being creatively bankrupt
Agreed. Episode 9 doesn't just have a 'tone' problem, it's MADE of problems. And the way Disney caved to some of its most toxic fans was pretty underhanded, imo.
Star Wars has not always been silly to begin with. It has always had comic relief. Even Hamlet has comic relief sprinkled throughout. But the original trilogy was a lot more serious that, say, the MCU (and even within the MCU there are huge variations, such as Captain America: Civil War vs. Thor: Ragnarok).
In a time when most video essays about film and media are based on the most critical and the most negative points of view.. I keep coming back to Filmjoy. Just wanted to say thank you for not being the negative focused "depress-fest" that RUclips media critics have embraced. Even when criticizing, you always have a positive kick. Thanks for this and for all your videos ✌️
One of the best things about Star Wars (kind of like Harry Potter, which you’ve also talked about) is its canon is sprawling, full of lore, plot holes, and very minor side characters whose stories are just hinted at enough to create endless “what if” scenarios for fans. We build it, we fix what we consider broken in it. The crazy is a feature, not a bug.
Love this so much! This is one of the few channels that makes me appreciate films more. I will never forget how I went from really liking The Last Jedi to just absolutely loving it after watching your video essay on it.
Grateful for the work you do and it's a huge inspiration for me.
always impeccable music choices for the intro. Song is Spooked by Fasion for anyone wondering.
THANK YOU
I enjoyed 7-9 movies. They had issues and a couple of wtf moments, but all the movies are like that (Only one I didn’t see in the theatre was due to me being 6 when it was released in 1977).
Thank you for this video. 😊
I hear you using “That Funny Feeling” as transition music. Nice touch.
Bless you; giving us the warmest takes once again (see what I did - what's a hot take for a lesser reviewer, you deliver with warmth, warm takes hence) and yes, you're right: you, me, the galaxy - we were all putting in a little too much effort trying to prove that Star Wars should be more like WE wanted it (for ourselves). So let's let go; love it unconditionally for what it is and also let Disney have the finger. I for one do not have enough time in my day to spend it upping their watchtime metric.
Mandolorian is a show that balances nostalgia with The New by taking old things and twisting them so we _recognize_ them but remain fascinated because they're in totally new contexts. Yoda? Sort of. Boba Fett? Kinda.
Watching Rise of Skywalker made me sad, but watching the Filmjoy team put out thoughtful takes brings me exactly what it says on the tin: joy ;-} Thanks Mikey. Looking forward to the next video!
I would actually love a longer talk about "lore burritos." I think you're dead on, that they are a way to fill a void with people that love a brand, and are held in a reverent light by fans, and yet when you're a writer making any sort of story, the universe just comes into play to fill in the gaps. You pick a story, determine why you're writing at all, ideally with an arc, and characters, and an ending, and the flavor and universe come after.
Now we're in an era where stories and brands are writing Universe-first; and you get all these Marvel and Star Wars shows that look the part, but have so much less to say; because they have to continue on forever. They're great lore first, and maybe a good story second, which is generally must less interesting than when you flip those two roles.
Thanks for this video Mikey. Personal anecdote time: I remember a few years back having a mildly hostile discussion with a friend of mine about Rogue One. He had seen it and hated it so much he said it ruined Star Wars for him. Why? Because there were... PLOT HOLES!!! Because certain aspects of the story didn't fall together perfectly! Because some of it was just plain dumb! And I spent several hours (over, perhaps unwisely, several beers) trying to get him to understand that Star Wars had never been the flawless masterpiece of cinema he thought he remembered. Star Wars had always been kind of a chaotic mess. That shit wasn't planned in advance, they just chucked some tropes in a blender, invented gorgeous new special effects to polish them up with, and created something fun and memorable. But my friend simply wasn't having it. The original trilogy was a flawless masterpiece of serious storytelling and everything else was STUPID.
I know it will probably be futile because he clearly was never interested in changing his mind but I'm going to send him this video, because I feel like you have perfectly illustrated all the points I was trying to make far more effectively (and efficiently) than I ever could. The laugh track over goofy clips from all three trilogies? The summation of what Boba Fett really was? The cheesy Flash Gordon style voiceover? You summed it up perfectly: Star Wars has always been stupid. And that's great! Sometimes something can just be goofy fun and it's not actually that important. (And when people start to think that it is important, and not only that but it's important that it be exactly the way they remember it even if they're remembering it wrong, leads to some really horrific shit like actors just doing their jobs getting harassed and abused and bullied off of social media.)
Congratulations on being free from talking about Star Wars on the internet ever again. You've earned your Star Wars retirement and then some. I hope all the hateful vitriol you're surely going to get in response to this video earns you lots of money. Looking forward to the next video!
19:55 - "If the Seven of Nine Star Wars Films..."
This cross over was bound to happen eventually.
I take solace in the fact that you love Rey’s ending. In true trilogy-capped fashion, that’s all Episode IX needed to be. III’s sole focus is Anakin’s turn. VI’s sole focus is Luke brining his father back. IX cares most about Rey and Ben, and gets them very right. This video was well worth the 2-year wait. Thanks, Mikey!
I just had a Titanic "It's been 84 Years" moment after reading your response.
Long have I waited for a Rise of Skywalker video from Mikey. This will be most pleasing.
18:05 I think your right about the future trajectory of Star Wars is having Rey training force sensitive kids. But I don't think this is going to be the end of the jedi. Rey has the books and force ghosts to rebuild the jedi order whole-cloth. Also (cynically) jedi is a brand which has a lot of marketing pushing it onto the public consciousness, so Disney is likely not going to abandon this cash cow.
I think the future trilogy is going to act like Rey is making something new. All the while building a cult of tradition that is always looking to the glorious past jedi as inspiration for their regime.
Personally I want a new type of force user but I don't think it's going to happen.
Especially after this, i would love to hear you on Andor!
6 may not have been that great, BUT it justified the greatness of 5 “empire.” without the events in 6, you wouldn’t realize how great 5 was in hindsight. 5 really became a great movie once 6 came out.
7 and 8 were both amazing.
7 was a great “reboot” of sorts of the franchise. and 8 was a great attempt at an “empire strikes back” atmosphere.
9 was just a big disappointment.
if 9 was done right (and not by abrams), it would have made the potential of 8 shine like 6 did for 5.
8 was not great. It has a lot of problems. Pacing being the main. Its a bad slow motion chase story and there is just so much energy lost ther and so many pointless scenes. We could cut out Finn and Rose's whole storyline and lose virtually nothing from the main story its not even a good b plot because it goes nowhere. At the end there is what 25 people left of the resistance? Enough to fill the Falcon with room to spare. I mean the message there is that no one is coming, that these last few people are all that is willing to fight Kylo and his new empire. His First Order have all the ships, all the firepower and no one to even make them pause and so.. 9 would just be where 4 began. Kylo would have to be sitting as defacto emperor, worlds falling to the order and most of the former republic having bent the knee and Rey and her handful of friends being a one or two ship annoyance with Kylo so obsessed with killing Leia and finding and turning Rey that he keeps stalking them. Rey being trained by Leia who in 8 we find has force training but its in Abrams 9 that we find out is stronger than Luke so she would just be a slightly trained former general so Rey would have to fall back on the teachings in the books rather than learning from someone who took a different path.
Idk man, I just find this incredibly sad. "It kinda sucked, but it was fun, and the zero-calory content slurry will smooth over the rough edges until it's as agreeable and disposable as possible."
I can't get excited about a Clone Snoke Disney+ show, or a Knights of Ren trilogy, or a X XII XIII trilogy, or a Palpatine prequel, or something completely unrelated set in the sequel era that tries to reconcile the diverging story paths that must coexist, lest canon collapse under itself.
Star Wars was always a bit silly, absolutely, and that's why I love it, but it was always about the strongest forces of the universe being love, hope, and compassion. Palpatine was not beaten with any of those values, he was fucking obliterated and melted into dust. It's a violent rejection of Luke throwing away his saber in VI, refusing to kill the Emperor in an act of compassion that radically defies all logic. Vader stepping in to shove him over a ledge is an act of compassion for his son that is similarly radical, crashing through decades of conditioning and cruel existence as a spectre of unstoppable rage and death. Palpatine's end should have been one, somehow, of relentless, radical love, hope, and compassion.
Ben Solo's death following a fairytale kiss of life and his metaphorical metamorphisis into adulthood did not represent those values. Finn not saving his once brothers and sisters from the war machine did not uphold those values. It wasn't silly in earnest, it was silly in contempt, in laziness, in a lack of faith in its childish fascist audience who couldn't cope with The Last Jedi trying to help them grow up.
I can't just be cool with TROS and let popcorn taste good as I'm watching Kelly Marie Tran have 110 seconds of screentime because N*zis bullied her and Disney listened to them. I can't be cool with the content slurry eventually trying to make amends because I can't cope with this movie existing alongside, supposedly even in tandem with the parts of this fantasy space world I love the very most. It touches the most sincere parts of the story like ash and poison.
I can't, man. It's just sad. It's sad that the accepted positivity position is to just be cool with it. On one level, yes, this movie is just a movie. But, really, this movie isn't just a movie, because it represents a statement of our collective cultural moment, when nerds came together and said: we do not want to grow up, all we want is content. Delicious, zero-calory, status-quo-unchanging, nostalic, sentimentally hollow content.
I liked this very much and hope the inevitable storm of people who have made Star Wars their entire personality blows by. Also, I'm excited for your pivot to catgirl vtuber.
Coming back for yet another rewatch. Love it even more
Thank you. In my darkest months, of which there have been dozens, a filmjoy video was sometimes the best part of the day. Now that I'm happier and healthier it's no longer true but a filmjoy remains a delight and a treat amongst many. Here's to those of us with serious chronic illnesses. (Rough times.) A standing ovation. Thank you, Mikey.
Hello Sonia and how are you doing?
"You don't have to tear other people down to build Yourself Up" -you talented s.o.b.
Always good to hear your thoughts. I don't really have much to say about Star Wars, itself, beyond "I wish people took it less seriously."
I didn't like Rise (not the video, the movie). Not because of plot-holes, not because of goofiness. I just didn't find it a satisfying story - or an end to a story. Regardless of its many flaws TLJ had very good ideas to move on from. And then the writers/producers/whoever made a bunch of decisions that resulted in a bad final sequel. Maybe catering to the audiences to try and take away the bad taste TLJ left in so many people's mouths. I dunno, it just didn't work.
A note on the Mandalorian, there are good things in it but not enough to make me want to watch it after the first season. I don't like that "western in space" was taken so literally. It's just... boring. I used to like Kung Fu (the TV show) as a kid, which basically has the same structure. But I wouldn't stand to watch it now. Maybe I'm at the "lost-soul-Luke" phase in regards to SW, as in "What's even the point of this anymore?"
And a note on Flash Gordon: the Barsoom series, which is where Flash Gordon, Star Wars and pretty much every other sci-fi/fantasy took its inspiration from - never had this problem. But hey, Disney managed to ruin that too. Thanks, Disney. Peace among worlds, you fuckers...
Star Wars has always been goofy and unrealistic. There's no sound in space. "I am your father" shrank the universe. Hyperspace moves at the speed of plot.
But the thing is, everything I just said is in service of making something awesome, without which it could not happen. Suspend that disbelief and you will be rewarded.
With Rise of Skywalker our belief is hung, drawn, and quartered, and for what? Some people will say they were amply rewarded, and more power to them. But for me the only reward was that it ended.
These videos are truly so meaningful to me so thank you for that.
What a perfect way to end the Star Wars "Filmjoy Saga". It had heart, said what it needed to say, and nothing more. Like what you like. I didn't enjoy the prequels. I was of those who felt that George did something to my childhood. In short, an entitled piece of trash.
I had to grow out of that. I wasn't a fan of the prequels. They weren't for me. Doesn't mean they were bad, or people are wrong for liking them.
I enjoyed The Last Jedi. I knew going in what a Rian Johnson movie could be like. I like that we met people who characters held in high regard, only to see them prove themselves at the end.
Thank you for what you do. To be both insightful and entertaining is never easy, and it would be so easy to see where the algorithm is going and follow the trend.
When I watched this. There were 597 views, and 572 thumbs up. That is an incredible ratio. And it was deserved. Thank you. Thank you for doing it. And thank you for this closure.
What I learned from Rise of Skywalker is that everyone needs to be more like Rey. We need to be kind even when everything is falling apart around us, even when we are not our best, we can still try to be kind and good.
@kshamwhizzle I have! it's fantastic
Thanks. You put how I've been feeling about Star Wars but been unable to articulate into a 25 minute package. I needed this.
Mikey, I really like most of what you say. Your TLJ video is a great example of your ability to look at something in a positive way. I still recommend that video any time somebody tells me they didn't enjoy TLJ. I really loved it, and you helped me understand and love it better.
But this is a herculean task. RoS wasn't "Star Wars bad". It was just *bad*. I appreciate your attempt. But 9 will remain alone in the Star Wars trash bin for me. But hey - you do you boo.
This video was such a cathartic experience for me as a casual Star Wars fan who is also a bit too plugged into the internet’s negative side of this fandom. You provided some much needed perspective. Thanks, Mikey.
If Dicken's wrote in the 21st Century: Great Expectations, Greater Expectations, Great III: The Greatest Expectation.....followed by a prequel ten years later: What To Expect When You Have an Expectation.
Bloody excellent video. Great writing all around. Beautiful and as poignant as can be from start to finish.
Hey now, Darth Maul came back before the Disney acquisition! He was in Clone Wars and Rebels and it was great!
”The Rise Of Skywalker ruined Star Wars”
It’s amazing how many times a franchise can be ruined… In fact this seems to happen with every installment. I’d go so far as to say Star Wars is like an abusive relationship. It doesn’t seem to end, but it always seems to have gone to shit even though folks always lap that shit up BOI
Older fan here, can vouch. Star Wars was originally ruined by the Ewoks. ;-)
@@jasonblalock4429 And then 20 years later Spaced had the best line: "Compared to Jar-jar, the Ewoks are like... fucking Shaft!" - Star Wars will forever be ruined by whatever comes along, relegating the last thing that ruined it to the status of beloved franchise mainstay
@@lorcannagle People need to realize nothing can ever truly ruin Star Wars. For every truly great piece of directing or writing or thematic symbolism there’s always like 3 pretty dumb things or plot holes or goofy scenes to balance things out. Star Wars isn’t always dumb, but Star Wars can never go too long without being at least kinda dumb, that’s been true of the movies since day 1 and has never ceased to be the case.
If SW wasn’t ruined by Attack of the Clones spending 40% of the screen time on the most awkward creepy romance in a blockbuster movie series ever put to film with lines like “I dont like sand”, then nothing can ever truly ruin it. It will always have something stupid to point out but it will also always have something cool and something worth enjoying. That’s why it sticks around. When it’s off, yeah it’s annoying and cringy and illogical. But when it’s on, and EVERY SW movie has moments when they’re on, they give you a feeling like no other fictional series can. Even the worst SW movie can make me briefly forget everything else dumb or bad going on and just make me sit back and go “Damn, that was so cool. I enjoyed that a lot.” That’s why I’ll always enjoy Star Wars.
Thanks for making this video...seriously.
what a journey this has been, going all the way back to the youthful hope of the force awakens video all those years ago. never imagined we'd end up here like this. much to think about once again 🤍
I really didn’t like Episode IX when it came out. But I’ve grown to love it now. It’s really tough having everyone tell me it’s disjointed, a mess, and unworthy of my appreciation, but I don’t really care. I’m always gonna like The Rise of Skywalker.
This review is as chaotic as the film and I bet like JJ, FilmJoy actually imagines that to be a compliment
It's hard to even tell if he likes Disney SW or hates it
Not because he's "neutral" or anything but because he jumps from one extreme to the other without any logic to tie them in between
Just don't. I've heard the "Star Wars has always been silly BS so Rise of Skywalker fits right in" defence before. No. It isn't the same thing.
Full disclosure; I'm a prequels girl, those are the films I grew up with, _Revenge of the Sith_ is easily my favourite of the whole series and I find the original trilogy a little slow and overly simplistic. I don't think _Force Awakens_ is terrible but it annoys me how hard it contrives the whole setting to be more like _A New Hope_ (The First Order still being depicted as a powerful empire vs. the scrappy Resistance in spite of that making zero sense being the most egregious example but also how the Kylo Ren origin story is left as just "stuff that happened between films" and Snoke being totally unexplained even though, unlike the Emperor in the OT, who's lack of backstory felt justified by the "In Media Res" presentation, _really_ needed an explanation for where the hell he came from and why he's in charge). I rather like _The Last Jedi_ overall but I realised on reflection that _all_ of the minor things I dislike about it are just the result of it having to be a sequel to TFA and it's poor setup.
Uh, anyway, that probably wasn't even worth bringing up in relation to TROS, because, in my opinion, the thing that instantly destroys the entire film is Palpatine's return having happened offscreen between films and being related to us in the opening crawl. Seriously, outside of completely farcical comedies, there's absolutely _no_ movie series that could get away with reviving a major dead character in an "oh, BTW they're alive again now and everyone knows it FYI" in passing like that. I could at least _tolerate_ all the other stupid shit in the film; Rey is a Palpatine, Finn and Poe's lacklustre character endings, Kylo Ren's _very_ poorly executed ending, the bizarre, out of nowhere "force dyad" bullshit etc. if the film could've _at least_ incorporated Palpatine's return into the actual bloody narrative...
That use of the guitar riff from "That Funny Feeling" in the last section really hits me in the feels.
"You don't have to tear other people down to build yourself up." That's exactly my issue with Rise of Skywalker. Not really the Star Wars-related contents, but that it's a long tantrum from JJ Abrams about both the previous movie and people's criticisms of The Force Awakens. It makes it difficult to watch and sink into a goofy Flash Gordon movie when it's constantly going out of its way to grind those axes. To the point at which it's not interesting to me to analyze it or even make fun of it in a goodhearted way.
And when the world needed him most, he came back
Yeah, Star Wars has always been kind of dumb and I agree that people are taking it too seriously. But that also includes the new writers and directors of Star Wars media. They push everything towards being serious and dark and really thought trough, when in reality it shouldn‘t be like that. Just have fun and don‘t take it seriously, people. (I guess this is true for most modern still ongoing franchises…)
Except you try to do that, and you get shit canned and replaced by Ron Howard.
I still want to see the Lord & Miller Solo movie.
Ever play KOTOR II. Extremely dark, probably my favorite Star Wars story, films included.
I don't understand why people are so dogmatic about what Star Wars was or is like when the coolest thing about the franchise is that it takes place in vast universe where anything can happen; where any kind of story can be told.
Dark and serious VS light and goofy is a false choice.
I guess you’re both right. I just still feel like everything is taken too seriously instead of just enjoying what there is
@@sumanoskae Also yes, KOTOR II is pretty awesome!
@@Deckdentisch I can only speak for myself, but it's not that I don't enjoy any modern Star Wars. Visions, Mandalorian, The Siege of Mandalore were all pretty good. Last Jedi was a breath of fresh air. Hell, I even enjoyed Solo for what it was.
I just don't see the point in being hesitant to criticize it. Star Wars is a multi-billion dollar franchise owned by the biggest media empire on the planet - it doesn't seem like it needs defending to me.
Obviously be civil - don't attack people personally or direct your complaints at people without creative control. But when has art ever benefited from an audience who just accepts it without comment or critique?
Not trying to rain on anyone's parade. I just think that Star Wars kind of invites critique. I mean, it's an openly political story that draws from world religions and mythology.
The originals came out of criticism of the Vietnam war; the prequels are commenting on the Bush administration; The First Order is basically the alt-right. I mean, it's about WAR. It might be lighthearted in tone, for the most part, but it has very explicit political and philosophical dimensions.
Like, for me personally, not thinking deeply about it and not criticizing it just feels like willfully ignoring the text: 'git ur politics outta muh vidya games', so to speak. The same sentiments as the people who harassed Kelly Marie Tran, because they were angry that the war movie about fighting fascists made them think about politics (somehow) for the first time.
Obviously nobody is obligated to wax philosophical about it if they don't want to, but it strikes me as almost purposely dismissive when people say things like: 'lol its about space wizards for kids, stop overthinking.' You can make anything sound silly if you describe it that way - Shawshank Redemption is a movie about a guy digging a hole.
I guess my point is this: if you think Star Wars has never taken itself seriously, you have chosen to interpret the work in a way contrary to its intention and content. Which is your right, you do you.
But a lot of Star Wars IS for kids; kids are impressionable. I think we should be cognizant of what we're teaching them.
Sorry for the wall of text: I take this story pretty seriously.
I love Star Wars. All of it, even the camp. Even the broken plots. Even in every trilogy, with every character. And Mikey, thank you for talking about it. You are always entertaining to me I’m every video you make, and I am so very grateful to you for that. I hope you continue to view Star Wars, even if you don’t talk about it on FilmJoy.
“Star Wars has always been dumb” and “We’ve always thought Star Wars did it wrong for every movie but the first one” Someone finally said it out loud. Thank you!!!
I’ve thought this for years but kept it to myself for fear of becoming the outcast in my nerdy friend groups.
Is the only defense of this movie really that it's good that it means nothing? That's kind of super depressing.
I have to say, I really appreciate someone coming out to defend her taking 'Skywalker' as her name; while the scene surrounding it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, that specific choice always made such instinctive sense to me, and for me, it means that, despite TROS' flaws (and don't get me wrong, there are plenty of those), when I've watched it I still generally come away feeling more positive than negative. It was nice to finally see someone managing to put into words some of the reasons why.
I'm also incredibly bitter that the muted response to this film means we probably won't ever get to see a proper replica of her lightsaber from the end because I'd buy one the second it hit shelves if they did.
FilmJoy, you’ve once again lived up to your name and helped me work through the tunnel of nitpicking outrage into the elation of simple enjoyment. I’m so happy to have finally reached the point where I can love Star Wars and let it go. Thanks for helping me rise. P.S. you might consider amending your channel’s name to Film Therapy 😏
I have met people in person or online that liked or even loved The Last Jedi, likewise people that didn't hate Rise of Skywalker. I've never seen anyone that loved Rise of Skywalker...just a total lack of positive passion for it.
Obviously plenty of negative, but the highest emotional watermark I've ever seen it get is far closer to positive indifference, a not-dissatisfied shrug. I've seen people with really positive reactions to Matrix Resurrections, but other than picking out a few moments they liked, that space for RoS is seemingly empty. Even my young nephew who loooves the new Jurassic Park movies because they're big spectacles just didn't really stick to it at all. I'd be happier if there was a small contingent of people out there willing to die on the hill of RoS being really good the way there is for TLJ, but if there is they're so small and quiet I haven't really seen them.
I was about to comment this separately, but your anecdote is a good jumping off point. Because I think you would see that love...if the film felt complete and executed on its vision fully. I think even people who love all the ideas TRoS went for can't muster a reaction that passionate for it because it's such a mess from a execution standpoint, it feels like it was rushed out the door and stumbles off the porch. If it were fully committed to all the ideas within it, you'd see those fervent defenses.
All the people I talked to IRL really liked The Rise of Skywalker. Friends, family, and people from work all were saying how much fun it was and how cool this or that scene was. It was a good like 8 months before I ran into someone IRL who disliked The Rise of Skywalker. I've run into a few more IRL since then and a couple siblings have since adopted the popular "only Rogue One is good" notion sadly.
My point is there are plenty of us Rise of Skywalker fans who loved it, you just haven't 'found us' online yet.
I'm in a large moderated non-toxic SW fan group on another site, and I can vouch - there are honestly people who love TROS. From what I've seen, they enjoy the nonstop roller-coaster pacing and really resonate with the Rey/Ben storylines. They just don't talk about it much in non-moderated spaces because they get dogpiled for saying they liked it.
@@jasonblalock4429 People get dogpiled on TLJ just as much and I've seen them plenty. Every film has people that like it, hell Salo has fans, so I don't doubt that there are *some* people that love it...just that it's probably the least of any of the movies to the point I haven't run across them.
Love your work my dude. I like it when people talk about peace and compassion and have some positive things to say in the midst of a firestorm.
Hello Justin and how are you doing today?
Always thought it was weird that Palpatine is brought back in a way that made sense from storytelling and was able to use well-remembered dialog as both explanation and foreshadowing, not to mention re-purposing the previous canon.
And yet Maul and Boba are solely brought back because people like them, and those are the ones that are OK apparently.
They aren't okay. Bringing them back was a bad idea too. But their deaths were not nearly as important as the death of Emperor Palpatine.