Schoenberg: Suite for Piano, Op.25 (Boffard)
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- Опубликовано: 23 июл 2024
- An intensely nuanced and perky performance of one of Schoenberg’s earliest 12-tone works (the prelude and gavotte might actually be the first 12-tone piece Schoenberg ever wrote). The Suite for Piano has had a rather undeserved reputation as an academically strict work: in fact, it is expressive and vivid, and full of life. For a start, the tone row of the suite E-F-G-D♭-G♭-E♭-A♭-D-B-C-A-B♭ contains a rather cheeky cryptogram of BACH (the last 4 notes are BACH spelled backward), and the HCAB sequence recurs as the root of tetrachord sequences throughout the suite. Schoenberg’s use of serialism is also quite free and consistently creative: the tone row is used as both melody and accompaniment in the Prelude (transposed by a tritone in the bass to avoid note repeats), the Gavotte uses pitches of the row in the wrong order (although each tetrachord retains its integrity), the Intermezzo contains pitch repetitions, the trio in the Menuett is a strict canon that links together all the different permutations of the row arising in the suite, and the Gigue motors along with barely contained rhythmic energy.
There’s also the fact that the pieces are all recognisable as baroque forms, even if they’re extensively modified, and that each has its own quite distinct character. The Prelude is propelled along by the pitch repetitions in m.3; the Gavotte and Musette have rhythmic outlines that are well-defined, even graceful, in their wry detachment; the Intermezzo has that long line singing beneath that halting RH ostinato; the Menuet is liltingly brooding; and the Gigue darkly fraught with intimations of violence. There’s a lot here that is owed to Boffard’s superb playing, which is full of sensitivity, delicate shading, and rhythmic drive - all of this in music which, if played badly, easily becomes rigid, coolly colourless, mechanical.
00:00 - Prelude
01:01 - Gavotte
02:11 - Musette (Gavotte da capo at 3:27)
04:37 - Intermezzo
08:38 - Menuet (and Trio at 10:23)
12:19 - Gigue 
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My cat has been playing Schoenberg the whole time. That genius little kitty
@michaeldavis6607 omg that made me laugh!
Maybe it is Schrödinberg's cat?
If your cat can play the Gigue, take that show on the road!
That face when you audition for a vacant piano player position and they throw you this for sightreading
Just headband on the keys, close enough
jury : "you played a wrong note"
pianist : "did i ?"
jury : "did you ?"
@@colossaltitan3546 i was about to say, its not like the judges are actually reading this music, play some quiet notes and some loud notes with some made up rhythms and you're good to go. i would have hated to have been shoenberg's transcriber
@@RustyDodd well the thing with schoenberg is his serialist style actually has a distinct style, even though you technically could make rows with certain intervals for example thirds, he avoided them, accidentally play too many of those and a distinction in style would be pretty obvious to judges
@@Cesar-ey7wu boulez: "he did. my turn."
After listening to Mahler for some time, this was what I needed right now. Music in which triumph nor tragedy do not exist
Same here. Fully agree.
Can you please elaborate?
@@Lalulalala824 it was a huge motivator for music in the 20th century to evolve past tragedy and victory since the n@zis kept using it as a tool for manipulation and propaganda
@@f.p.2010and this was written in the early 1920s, literally nothing to do with the nazis, he is using a new compositional technique to push past the boundaries of the tonal system and that’s all there is to it really
@@elliotfinucane5583I wasn't talking about this piece anyways
I love how his compositions blur away the melodic content and help listeners and performers gain clarity on musicality as a whole: contrasts in rhythmic phrasing, dynamic interests, "percussive" attacks on notes, and the rise and fall of general phrasing. All of these elements are what comprise a great piece of music for the performer and listener.
Not only do you have to respect the strange artistry of these compositions, but also the emotianlity which encapsulates the anxiety and terror of nazi germany
ty bro. gonna use that in my music presentation
I don't play video games. Nevertheless I would think they are friendlys if there is such a thing in games.
No.
00:00 - Prelude
01:01 - Gavotte
02:11 - Musette (Gavotte da capo at 3:27)
04:37 - Intermezzo
08:38 - Menuet (and Trio at 10:23)
12:19 - Gigue
김문문 wow
감사함다!!!
ありがとうございます。
Thank you
Schoenberg was really meant to be a drummer.
A manufacturer of.
Agreed.
@@oeaoowhy are you everywhere in the comments if you don't like music just go and leave it
STFU
He was!
I was so surprised at how much this music relaxed me. Following the score, I was able to detach from everything else around me, like reading a book, yet not needing to understand what I was reading, just to feel it. I really needed this today.
Totally🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱
Nothing relaxing to me!
@@catapatata What did it make you feel?
@@antfaz Something like... Uneasy
@@catapatata That's totally valid too! Shows how powerful music is, how it can affect us in so many different ways.
Ah yes, the sounds my brain makes when I am studying for finals.
Funny, I'm listening this to study for a midterm in an hour
Still listening that one when need inspiration , reflecting on a project, etc... help me.to let my thoughts go.
This is indeed the best stuff to listen to while studying for functional analysis exam.
Study for your exam, sir- Schoenberg
Joke
For some reason, I feel relaxed listening to this 💀
Thanks Ashish, great post all round - the recorded performance is brilliant, and your 'liner notes' are great!
The first glimmer of appreciation for music like this is a sense of relief, a vacation from the tried and tired walls and gravity tonality, as though it were mundane life, beautiful and enduring in itself, but something from which we realize we have been longing to find respite from, however brief, even if only to catch our breath.
The tired walls of tonality?
wonderful to have the score here with the piano performance! Thank you!
I wanted to thank you for sharing this particular recording. I think it's incredibly compelling and shows a great attention to formal aspects that aren't as apparent in recordings by other great pianists. I've also had a very hard time getting access to this recording anywhere else and I might have never heard it if you hadn't shared it. Bravo.
Splendid perfomance! Bravo Florent!
Pretty good. Looking at the score, what an achievement it is to play it. Spectacular performance.
This sounds really playful at times because of the rhythm used actually
Jyry Halonen try listening to Stockhausen
Women are Objects Stockhausen is one of the great composer's, I definitely recommend checking him out. Some of his work is definitely more intense, dissonant and chaotic (intentionally) than Schoenberg could ever hope for, after all Schoenberg was just a romantic composer
@@JohnSmith-iu3jg answering 2 years later because my comment got hearted. I didn't mean the playfulness as a bad thing but rather just a thing. It's very musical and playful at the same time as being harmonically harmonically dense. Same as John Coltrane's Giant Steps.
That being said I should listen to Stockhausen I still haven't haha
Try listening to Luigi Nono
@Jerf Hankell but you like listening to minimal music?
This sounds like it should be in a Zelda game when you're running through a field at night and there are enemies nearby
OMG I WAS THINKING THE SAME THING
Breath of the Wild's night soundtrack sounds awfully evocative of this music...
I’m having a tough day and this made me lol thank u
Omg same thought
*A GUARDIAN IS LOOKING AT YOU RIGHT NOW*
One of the best works by Schoenberg for sure, along with the Klavierstucke!
This is so wonderfully platyful, and Boffard's rendering of its charm is delightful
This is wonderful. Thanks for posting it!
This is wonderful! Thank you!
I grew up on Pollini's recording of the Suite for Piano. This is a worthy performance. Boffard is perhaps a little more sensitive than Pollini. They each bring out different aspects of the Suite. This recording is, for me, a revelation. I admit I have listened to Pollini for so long that I thought it was 'definitive'. Now I know it is not.
I know how you feel. I grew up with the Paul Jacobs and it's hard to shake the first wonderful interpretations of a piece such as this monumental achievement.
gould for me
Gould was horrible! His Bach is divine...but he butchered Ravel, Berg and everyone else he turned his hand to. There's nothing wrong with Pollini but this recording is also fabulous.
@@geraintdavies4694 Oh come on. Gould doesn't butcher anything. If you don't prefer his interpretations that's fine. I actually like them, not always my favorites but his playing is impeccable and he's doing what he wants to do and he makes the listener think and hear the music in a different way, many times for the better.
This is so beautiful! I get really calm and focused. I believe it's because I'm so used to romantic harmony
I really love atonal music. Thank you very much for posting this masterpiece from Scoenberg!
Schoenberg is just that perfect background noise for studying and writing. No melodies to get distracted by.
It's full of melody and mood swings. This music is very distracting. I don't know how you can study while listening to it. I couldn't.
@@garrysmodsketchesreal its filled with such tension
The wonderful thing about playing Schoenberg is that if you make a mistake and play the wrong note no one can tell the difference anyway.
And any mistake can only make this better.
@@oeaoo always amusing when people think they're cleverer than Schoenberg
@@isaacvandermerwe744 that is no more than projection.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 this ! #FACT
🤓
The most accessible twelve-tone piece and - after listening to hundreds of them - still the best!
the gigue is simply irresistible! all the syncopated rhythms and tritones!! yessss
Niina Ranta Some parts of it even bring to mind Bartok ;D
Almost Bulgarian rhythms.
Niina Ranta lol "irresistible "
The gigue is great because it's remembering the past.
:O ,im so glad i live in the era of internet so i can hear this beautiful works
One of the BEST version! extremely sensitive and precise!
I know this music is not for everyone but I personally find it very compelling.
haha interesting
***** I don't really get you. I don't think it is very beneficial for us to keep discussing music.
***** ok haha I am fine if you would like to think that. might be true for all i know
***** Thanks, but I actually don't record most of what I play, especially the things I work on for months or years. Ha, funny you bring up the berceuse. I just about deleted it but decided not to. Easily my worst :) and I can't afford to tune my piano too often, unfortunately.
Noah Johnson no johns
Whistle your favorite part.
Don Patricio any time
It's not difficult for me.
Probably the beginning of the gavotte
Superb performance of a very hard, but amazing, piece 🙏🏽
I starting loving his piece... he was truly genius
Thanks for uploading this.
Amazing performance.
Outstanding interprétation !
Quarter of a million listeners!!Schoenberg would be enchanted.I think, Steuermann, too.And I love this performance,too.I had the great pleasure of hearing Boffard in a stunning recital in Berlin's Musikfest in September 2018 I studied with one of Schoenberg's assistants and gifted student of Steuermann, Emil Danenberg.I played the Opus 23 at a recital in Berlin and Amsterdam...in 1983... and live on one of the three streets Schoenberg lived in his Berlin years..Boffard is .a great musician and pianist of !As has been commented in the Comments here far better than more 'famous' colleagues...c'est la vie....!
I wish you could play his music live on the streets of Brentwood, Los Angeles. 😀
May you have the blessing of gods.
Great performance!
12-tone music, you have to follow the row but you’re allowed to repeat one or two notes immediately. Feels like an arbitrary effect, but it’s at least something to listen for.
I love the 12-Tone Technique.
I listen to this stuff every now and then because I find it hilarious.
May you have the blessing of gods.
I enjoyed reading the comments. Thank you very much. This work will be forever memorable as the first 12-tone work. I think String Quartet No. 2 is historically much more important ...
I’m reading this now. I reall enjoy this piece!
One of the best drum solos of all time.
Couldn't really find a way to get into this for the first few minutes, but I feel like I got it by the end. It's basically an exhibition of the percussion side of the piano. An awesome one, at that. It's using everything EXCEPT harmonies to move you.
Rhythm becomes much more important with atonality and the absence of tonal semitone pulls.
He wanted to make to listen to something like Bach's keyboard suite. You can decide if he succeeded or not. I think he was half successful.
Yes, the rhythm is vivid, and important to the character of the piece, but as for 'not' employing harmonies, that is a misunderstanding, since the serial structure ensures the presence of a specific TYPE of harmony. True, the piece is not built from standard tertian chords derived from the major scale, but there are 'harmonies' other than those. This piece demonstrates 'other' types of harmony characteristic of chromatic aggregates (all available twelve notes one after another) in a fixed, repeating order (a 'tone-row'). Essentially, 'sitting on a piano' will create a 'harmony', but it may not be what you are able to musically 'hear', or it just may not be what you 'like'. Schoenberg had a gift for creating rhythmic interest, but harmony was his true field of expertise, and he did not abandon that connection to it, he just reworked it into the serial framework.
I expect Herr Schoenberg would have included the ads too if he had thought of it.
All I can say is WOW!
Such a great original work for piano; unbeatable
This is the first dodecaphonic piece of music which I actually enjoyed; it opened up a new world for me.
Sounds like cat running on the piano
@@TheBestHugger Shut up.
Johann Sebastian Bach he is not wrong though
@@10hartland He is, it is his fault that he can not see merit in this impecabley organized piece.
Johann Sebastian Bach it sounds horrible, just hearing it gives me anxiety
I'm in love with the musette...
I never really liked serialism/shcoenberg until I read it and listened to it at the same time. Unreal craic.
Excellent
grandioso el dodecafonismo ¡¡¡
I love this piece. Schoenberg is a legit genius, and it's cool if you don't dig it. The great thing about that, is you can just listen to something else.
Schoenberg's main problem, from a popularity standpoint, is that it's hyper-conscious, its pleasure requires a specific kind of paying attention. Which makes a lot of people uncomfortable. Don't hate if you don't like it. No one thinks they are better than you for liking Schoenberg. Or if they do, they are not worth wasting your breath.
But it's naive to think that this is noise or nonsense or that a child could come close to replicating it.
Idk man I've seen plenty children play the same
@@johannkaribaldursson215 Either you don't mean that or you are not listening. You aren't wrong that there's some of that spirit of play and spontaneity. Unpredictability. But it's still an articulate and hyper organized version of that. The tempo is not erratic. And listen, when you are trained, it's incredibly difficult to avoid the patterns and resolves. Even if you don't enjoy it, it's a marvel of composition.
I personally find it meditative. It avoids all the known pathways that western music follows. There are times when its all I can listen to. Only so much C-D tension resolving to G one can stand.
You do you. But saying that it sounds the same as a child banging on a piano, compliment though it would be in some ways, just doesn't match whats happening. It is hyper specialized music for musicians though its kind of true.
@@heathflagtvedt5769 It doesn't "avoid all the known pathways that western music follows." It rejects some ideas about harmony inherent in almost all music (including non-western music.) Everything else (including many other aspects of harmony) are at most incrementally modified compared to almost all modern classical music, (such as Schoenberg's tonal works.)
The problem really is that I hate it so much.
@@marcusvaldes Lol thats a perfect response though! we dont need to debate what we like or dislike so much. Plenty of music out there for you to enjoy? do you like tarregas? david russell kills it. ruclips.net/video/LhVPTSh5YHM/видео.html
Is there any way you could upload the rest of this album? Boffard is spectacular!
Years ago, I spent a weekend at a friend's house in Hartford with Yvar Mikashoff who, at the time, was learning Op. 25, and having a rough time of it. Not the world's greatest memorizer, he could hardly get the piece into his head, much less his hands. He was an intuitive player (the technique took care of itself) and found very little to grab on to. I don't know if he ever programmed it.
In this superb performance, the Suite reveals itself as charming and humorous, yet still remote.
I bet you guys had a fun time playing this
What a fantastic performance of this incredible piece. I played portions about 30 years ago now and still hum parts (that's right) - full of melody and such piquant rhythmic and harmonic moments. Not a SINGLE tiresome moment.
Serial music is the farthest you can get from harmony.
otonanoC it’s not serial --that was a corrupted concept that cam decades later and is devoid of expressive power usually.
It's great!
@@otonanoC This work is easy to get harmony because the content is tonality music.
@@otonanoC Not necessarily. Firstly, there are more than one type of 'harmony', and even the term itself can be fraught with subjective interpretation of what constitutes 'harmonising' relationships. However, if you're working from a definition of harmony which is directly associated with the lineage of Western 'tonality' [ - 'tonality' also being a potentially subjective term!] from say, Palestrina, to Bach, to Beethoven, to Wagner, to Debussy, to jazz, blues, rock, pop, country, etc, then yes - there is an obvious set of differences. However, some of those differences are 'structural', as in, they are inherently different due to the different structural parameters governing serial practice, and traditional or contemporary 'tonal' practice. However, there are numerous areas of potential commonality between them - but the key word is 'POTENTIAL', and that potential must be TAPPED!.
Many, perhaps most, examples of serial composition which inform our perception of the 'practice', were associated with 'anti-tonal' perogatives, which were ADOPTED, yet presumed as being synonymous with serial practice. However, 'anti-tonality', or so-called 'atonality', do not have to be, and are not necessarily, associable with SERIAL STRUCTURE, with regard to its formal parameters and protocols, its structural principles. Several 20th C composers already proved this by incorporating 'tonal' elements into their serial approach, including Schoenberg himself (eg. in "Ode To Napolean"), as well as (famously) his student, Alban Berg, and later composers such as American, George Rochberg.
However, I would put to you that even these composers barely scratched the surface of how traditional & contemporary tonal elements and principals can be fused with serial structure, or how serial structure can be approached and extended so as to develop 'tonality', and associated 'harmony' from its structural parameters. Essentially, serialism is somewhat algorithmic, and if you look into the work of composer/theorist David Cope, you will find a lot of research into how formulae produce repeatable results, and how this can apply even to traditional musical language and style, so that formulae can 'recreate' Mozart. However, the typical ('classical') approach to 12 tone serialism may not be able to produce 'Mozart' per se, yet it can produce its OWN type of 'tonality', as was discovered and championed by Josef Hauer (even before Schoenberg had solidified HIS concept of dodecaphonic serialism), as well as communicate typical, or atypical 'tonal' relationships and effects.
Don't forget too, that serialism, even strictly formulaic applications of it, does not have to be dodecaphonic (12-tone), but may be applied to ANY group of notes, be it the major scale, a dominant seventh chord, the minor pentatonic, and so on. Any of them can be 'serialised'. Stravinsky famously applied serial principles to rows of four or five notes. Also, many of the
479, 001600 possible 12-tone rows inevitably contain such scalar/chordal entities as segments/portions, which can be exploited as separate tonal entities in applications of rows.
The main point I'm making to you in this detailed reply is that many roads can be taken, and just as Wagner and Mahler showed that the diatonic scale and traditional tonal relationships could be manipulated within a chromatic environment to the point of extreme ambiguity and/or dissonance, so too can serial schemata be designed and/or exploited to promote consonance and tonal relationships. This is a current undertaking in my own compositional practice, and I'm discovering all sorts of possibilities by open-mindedly applying, both, tonal and algorithmic logic to very strict serial formulae. It's fun, and the music is proving the possibility of the two paradigms being united.
I was trained that the entirely complete twelve tone piece was the piece that came after this The Woodwind Quintet. This piece was his Swan Song from tonality. Nevertheless the journey from Opus 1 forward to opus 25 was totally amazing as well as organic. Everyone should try this trip through his entire opus' and witness how his language logically developed unlike his successors. Whoops did they all forget he was the creator of this concept. He was so nice not to make it too complicated however the result was too complicated for the listeners to understand.
I think he made a real twelve-tone musical piece after he came to the United States.
Does the ' and semicircle notation in the Gigue indicate stressed and unstressed? I've seen that in poetic meter but not in music before.
Yes exactly! I'm not sure if Schoenberg originated this use of it but my piano teacher used to write the same in my music
very good!!!!!!
Banging on the piano music at its finest
For me, nothing sounds academic in this suite; except perhaps the very beginning of he gavotte. Schoenberg applies to the series of 12 notes all the resources of his musical imagiination. I feel this suite easier to listen than say the perfectly tonal op. 9 and its dense contrapunctal effects rendrerd by a chamber orchestra. I would even sat that the pays betxeen a cell and its invesrion sound nice in that context.
Gérard Begni how can any music sound "academic"?
I would argue that a piece is academic if it's trying to showcase a particular concept of music theory.
Or maybe I'm being ironic, as theory only comes after a piece has been created.
@@johnappleseed8369 I think what he means is it is surprisingly, exceptionally imaginitive, playful and explorative despite the limitations of a compositional technique we might consider the pursuit of a serious minded intellectual more interested in theories than the living soul of existence
Both kammersymphonies are IMO, unsung masterpieces of the 20th Century, but the first was the subject of my favorite bad review of a classical work- "one long, 20-minute wrong note."
One of Schönberg's best
The interesting complexities he did very changing and the 12 tone.
i can play this, hold my beer
+OneFourFive
You must be an infant if you think an infant could play this.
toothless toe Okay, it takes a genius to write it, but to most people, it sounds like an infant wrote it. Is that better? Actually, now that I think of it, Picasso said he spent his entire adult life trying to learn how to paint like a child again.
+Maestro_T
No, it's not better. An infant can't do anything other than to eat, drink, shit, and cry. Your statement would make more logical sense if you said this sounds like a child made it. However, you'd still be wrong, because I know what a child would write and it wouldn't remotely come close to the complexity exhibited in this composition. If Schoenberg's goal was to get his music to sound childish (not the pejorative childish), he utterly failed in that regard.
toothless toe Do you really think Picasso meant he wanted to paint exactly like a child? I think he was referring to the freedom, imagination, and creativity a child's mind has, not inhibited by conventions and traditions that one picks up over years of formal training--not losing the other abilities and depth one picks up as an adult. Do his paintings look like a child did them? Obviously not. Anyway, the point is that to a lot of people, probably most, this sounds like a bunch of messing around that a child would do. That doesn't mean they're right. (It also doesn't mean this is a great aesthetic either just because it's so unconventional, incidentally, regardless of how genius it might be.)
"It also doesn't mean this is a great aesthetic either just because it's so unconventional. . ."
If one thought this music was great just because it's unconventional, he/she would be a pretentious, ostentatious shitbag.
I love 12 tone music!
Thanks for helping me with my Schoolprojekt! I searched for the tonesystem 1h and now i found it, THANKS
May you have the blessing of gods.
Underrated
Tears….. 😭
I actually enjoy listening to this. I think it has an interesting sound. I understand the concepts behind this music, but I still listen to it for pleasure and not academically.
Y'all are downs
qvistus82 I agree
+qvistus82
Music isn't a language, though.
Yes it is, though. (www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/02/how-brains-see-music-as-language/283936/ )
No, it isn't. Just because music has something in common with language doesn't make music a language. If music could convey objectivity like language can, you'd have a more cogent point.
An loud add pupped up at 8:45 ;-; , broke the immersion I had (which admittedly wasn't a lot, idk how to listen to this).
this very nice music, it showes the richness of nature, the hidden order in the wilderness, no chaos, only for a straight thinking human being it doesn't want to be understood. Change your perspective, a little closer, a step back and you wil dicover the beauty. It is no musical fastfood your ears can chew at a boring rainy afternoon, or during brain melting sun bath on July beach.
很好听，正在练习
Needs more cowbell
I agree 100%
Needs less piano. 🙉
Having read Schoenberg’s Theory of Harmony from front to back, my opinion is that, faced with ever more chromatic music being written in the Vienna of 1908-1910, Schoenberg developed the 12-tone formalism, not to break the system, but on the contrary, to put some order into the chaotic direction that music was evolving into. In a sense, he needed structure (reminiscent of Brahms’ FAF, “frei aber froh”).
I think he mentioned 4 types of harmonic structure somewhere in the modulation chapter (tonal center, free floating tonality etc.) and seeing that alot of composers went for free floating tonality without a clear center he went as a consequence of that for the last step which is deliberately avoiding harmonic movements and reorganizing the entirity of the chromatic scale
I think the "systemization" of atonality in the twelve-tone method was an after-the-fact rationale. The fact is, the entire Second Viennese School were having difficulty crafting longer-form pieces with the same intense concentration as their free-atonal miniatures. The twelve tone method made longer forms more approachable by winnowing the compositional choices. Tellingly, after having adopted the method, Schoenberg immediately set about pouring the duodecaphonic wine into Neoclassical casks.
@@DeflatingAtheism Very interesting! But don't you think both reasons played a role? I think there's no logical reason free atonality couldn't go with large forms
@@hippotropikas5374 oh free atonality definitely can go w larger forms, Schoenberg's Erwartung is an example, but that's one of the few examples bc writing long-form pieces in that style is just really damn hard
@@djspacewhale I trust you ^^
art is not for you to enjoy, but if you can, so much the better
Wonderful!
So beautiful 😍
Cap
Great soundtrack for a cartoon chase scene around a museum filled with easily breakable and unreplaceable art.
In fact, the composer of Tom & Jerry used the 12-tone technique xd
Schoenberg had to be such a genius, the rythmes are so catchy and original and it makes (along with the structure) the pieces good and not sounding like a total mishmash, even despite using dodecaphony!
I was just going through a phase where I hated modern music but this just put things into perspective, now I don't think modern music is all so bad!
Por un momento escuché una tonalidad :o
This work is genius
Troppo invasiva per le mie orecchie questa musica
Nice! 👏👏
oui
@@Dagadoum 👌
What I like about the Piano Suite--and what makes it easier listening than other piano works of Schoenberg--is the strong rhythmic element, with lively syncopations.
you're right.
What the hell. This piece is/looks so darn hard. And I have to learn and play this in 1½ months. Well... Let's go..?
so¿ did you get to learn it¿
You're right. This work is an experimental work.
It's great
I’m new to this. I can’t get into it right now, but maybe eventually.
I do wish I understood. From what I gather in the comments, if you know the theory, or just get it intuitively, this is actually highly structured music and demonstrates a magnificent access to its deeper levels. I hate to be so obvious by saying so, but it just doesn't give me any pleasure as a lay listener. I could maybe compare it to those who read favorite writers of mine, like Lispector, Rulfo, Ashbery, Krasznahorkai, Anne Carson, Can Xue, etc. who might similarly feel like they've run up against something opaque, joyless, or willfully meaningless. Whereas I see great beauty and insight in their works. I'm glad this exists, but I regret my own ears.
Honestly I like listening to this more then listening to Scriabin sonatas
Music should never require theory knowledge to be enjoyed - music theory should deepen the enjoyment, but not be a requirement.
Otherwise it becomes a dry academic exercise which computers can easily create, and the composer can feel like a misunderstood genius ahead of his time.
you're right. This work is Schoenberg's experimental work. So it's natural that you can't understand. Please listen to the piano work before Op.24. Or listen to Piano Concerto Op.42.
Even if you don't understand them, you'll love them.
As a musical student I enjoy listening to this but not casually
This makes me confused and I imagine a lot of situations where these themes could fit in, but it's mainly chaos and weirdness
don't try to "understand" it, just listen to it a few times and let your ear explore the music. If you get familiar with the piece (aurally), then you will be able to wrap your head around the structure of the piece eventually.
One of many composers that influenced F Zappa.
what the... this is cool!
Did Marc-Andre Hamelin quoted something from this piece in his variations? (I think in the Musette)
Maybe you are right.
Zappa, Henry Cow, Cecil Taylor, ELP (Keith Emerson) went through my mind...
Quite happy leaving twelve tone composition to the historical footnote it sits in. Perhaps music was meant to "go through" this experimental phase, in which case, I'm glad it came out the other side. :-)
ok, sure, fine. But can you people just shut up?
sigh
Atonality be interesting from an intellectual perspective, but it cannot resonate with human emotion.
extraña musica, pero hermosa a su manera
Shoenberg: Buddy!!!
Messaen: Buddy!!!!
I like this. But probably wouldn't remember anything about it unless I heard it a lot of times. And I don't think I would say I necessarily "understand" the language of it, if that's even the purpose, maybe it's not. It's like a person with no language doing a lot of intentional sounds and gesticulations, you can tell they are trying to express something with a lot of nuances but you can't really interpret what they mean precisely, and there's a slight chance they might just be crazy and it's all meaningless.
I just wish I could understand the theory behind atonality the 12 tone system
Pitches equalization. Abandonment of hegemony.
It's quite easy to understand the idea behind it. It's based on 12 notes, so you must compose using every single one of them to make a 12 tone row. Then and only then you can repeat the first note. To make things more interesting and adding variations you can play your row backwards, this is called the retrogade; or you can invert the intervals, meaning that if you went up a minor third you must go down a minor third; there's also the inverted retrogade and finally you can transpose your row. The notes can be also played harmonicaly. And that's pretty much how it goes.
Lovely!
yes!
Experimental work, very unsuitable for appreciation.