What I learned from this is that rhythm is central to atonal. The notes have their logical 12-tone rules, but the rhythm gives it an almost virtuoso jazz improv (ragtime?) feel. And let me mention an typically missed fact about atonal: It ruled Hollywood. For decades a very noir-ish feeling would be invoked in a film score with atonal. We grew up on atonal -- even if proper acceptance was lacking.
Schoenberg's work is a kind of "high art" that one can only really appreciate if you have the technical background, (or if your ears purposefully seek out dissonance, bless you, you absolute weirdos). I was always terrible at music theory, however, so I only understand enough to appreciate Gould's trying to explain it to his audience. He's charming as heck but no one is quite so dashing as to simply trick anyone into enjoying Schoenberg 😅
This happens to be the first time I considered the possibility that performers like him might be being disingenous at times rather than irreversibly changing with culture, especially considering the skill they build up over the years which could help them take joys from technical endeavours and not be concerned so much with other things. Besides this man was an angelic freak of nature.
Can't believe this video only has 18 comments?! Is Gould speaking extemporaneously or is he reading from a cue card? From watching other clips of him and also Leonard Bernstein, it seems they possessed the ability to speak this eloquently off the top of their heads, and it is utterly extraordinary.
He is probably doing both.... I have come to the conclusion that Gould's mind preplanned everything he said, he was probably unaware that he did it, and equally unaware that other people did not. Another one of his many genius abilities. Just my speculation. I worship this man! ;)
@@charlotterose6724 he apparently was very "performatic" and did in fact "script" (even if only in his mind) conversations and interactions. There's a very good documentary on him called "Genius Within", or something like that, that covers this and a lot of his personal life.
Gould memorized the lines then pretended to improvise them. Even when he had a guest on, he would insist that they memorize and pretend along with him. He was a total control freak.
Не надо упокоивать Гленна Гульда 🔥. Вы же каждый раз не говорите RIP Баху и Бетховену, слушая их Музыку. Они с нами всегда и будут после нас - во всей красоте и полноте жизни. Амен 🙏.
I had the honor and privilege to study "music history" under the guidance of the famous and talented Talmon Hertz (a mentor I'll never forget). I also wish I could have studied from Glenn Gould. What a genius he is in explaining novel ideas. This video is a simple example. God has blessed us with these geniuses!
@@theretrogamers7690 I'm guessing you're rather old, judging by your elegant language. However, I've got a feeling that you're pretty narcissist, since you think that your musical knowledge is better than that of a professional musician, such as Glenn Gould. If we consider that Gould works as a musician, and that he used to play "classical" music at a very high level, I think that we can safely assume Glenn Gould has immense knowledge on the so called subject of music "theory" (what you think of as fundamental "theory" is really just a particular method of composition) Do you not know that other people are smarter than you in some areas of knowledge?
I'm a total ignoramus when it comes to music and I'm here because I just read Doctor Faustus by Mann. I'm trying hard to understand any of it and have spent a lot of time googling, The more I hear Schoenberg the more I like hi music. Mann says it's a lament, the sound of human voice in nature, the cry of the soul maybe I dont really know.
wonderful ! thank you very much for posting. there is a live recording of the whole suite op. 25 from salzburg (austria) played by the young gould. marvellous too !
I think the 12 tone system started out a intellectual and theoretical endeavor opposed to an emotional one, but did yield some worthwhile music. That can be said of diatonic music the same. A good indicator that the system is worthwhile is if it draws up any memory or feeling. you could say it reminds you of chase scene in an old film or that it makes you feel uneasy. I think it sounds enjoyable because it’s a major dissonance compared to the consonance of most music. Kinda like spreading out the music of the day like a piece of music with consonance and dissonance. However the piano does lend well to the system and isn’t absolute as Bach’s music for instance where it would sound great on any instrument
Was Glenn hier macht, geht weit über das Klavierspiel hinaus. Er spielt, als wenn er die Musik und das Klavier erfunden hat. Wo Andere Tasten drücken, beginnt es hier bei Glenn zu klingen aus der Stimme.
Even now, 40-50 years after this was filmed, Schoenberg has yet to find a broad audience. Even the scope of the giants like Bach or Beethoven seems to have diminished since Gould's time. Might it be the case that "difficult" 20th century composers such as Schoenberg actually contributed to the decline of the entire European art music tradition? It is not the only factor, to be sure: witness Yale University's recent cancelling of their legendary art history class on account of its being too European and too white. But the acceptance of Schoenberg's music, music that most people simply did not like no matter how hard they tried, as the best the tradition had to offer probably did not help.
Schoenberg is great in his own right but he's part of the canon nowhere that I know of, unless we're talking about the elite of the elite. And he certainly didn't contribute to this supposedly decrease in the appretiation of Bach or Beethoven. Also Universities live in their own contradictory bubble.
@@zweiosterei It never crossed my mind that Schoenberg might not be part of the canon. Perhaps I am a part of the elite of the elite? That would be another possibility I had not considered. But in spite of the fact that I think he may have created some challenges for the tradition, at least we agree that Schoenberg was great in his own right!
Even if this is the case, schoenberg is merely the symptom of a trend much larger than he. If we grant your point of view, surely we must view him not as the cause of the deterioration of western art music but as the effect of it, following a long lineage going back through scriabin, debussy, mahler, wagner, beethoven, mozart, bach ad infinitum
these sorts of teleological arguments always seem to me to grab the bat by the wrong end so to speak. its as though people are thinking schoenberg is only a historical "winner" if 14 yo girls are dancing to his music in their tiktok videos in 2020. its not like the art of fugue will ever top the charts. if you think that says something about its merit i would say that reveals more about you ! did schoenberg contribute something rich, imaginative and profound ? yes. if 400 or 4 people are interested, it is still there to be mined.
Very informative overview of the 12 tone technique and analysis of Schönberg's piece but the attempted Schönberg impersonation was off-putting and simply unnecessary...
Some of the people here making the same boring comments about how they or their cat could do better are probably the same geniuses who think they can paint like Pollock or Mondrian - anybody can do that, they say. If you're not equipped to understand and enjoy modern music you should just leave it well alone as something which is beyond you.
Well Pollock is quilitatively different from Schoenberg because he would literally through paint on a canvas randomly, while Schoenberg's notes are the farthest possible thing from randomness.
@@garrysmodsketches You're right about Schoenberg et al. being the very antithesis of randomness. But even Pollock's art follows it's own internal logic and rules. And my point was that the vast majority of people don't understand modern art/music/literature but still feel they are qualified to make pronouncements upon it.
@@johnvalentine4720 i would say choice of colours is the only way "internel logic" can exist in Pollock's stuff. I agree that most people don't understand modern art, but with music it goes deeper. If you show someone a movie or read them a poem or show them a painting and then ask them to describe what they experienced, they will probably give an okay description. But let someone listen to a Beethoven symphony movement and ask them: "what did you hear, describe the sympony, what were the main themes, what were the procedures Beethoven uses to develop them, etc?" They would struggle if they don't already have extensive musical training. This is why music, of all arts, suffers the most from misunderstanding.
Haha... Gould is mesmerizing as always ... that “music” however is dreadful. Not much different from other degenerated arts of 20th century... like post art deco architecture or “modern” painting/sculpture...
The voice of reaction! Are you serious with that 'degenerated'? Do you want to sound like a Nazi? As the man said, the ear just needs to get used to it. I remember my shock when I first heard this--now it sounds like Mozart to my inner ear!
Schoenberg walks into a bar. "I'll have a gin tonic please, but no tonic"
Barman: “Just a gin, sir?”
Schoenberg: “No I said gin tonic with no tonic!”
Barman: Now, how the heck is that possible?
Schoenberg: Twelve tone.
@@pianosbloxworld4460 😂
Funny
Two Jews walk into a bar; Glenn & Arnold
🙏😄 Excellent
What I learned from this is that rhythm is central to atonal. The notes have their logical 12-tone rules, but the rhythm gives it an almost virtuoso jazz improv (ragtime?) feel. And let me mention an typically missed fact about atonal: It ruled Hollywood. For decades a very noir-ish feeling would be invoked in a film score with atonal. We grew up on atonal -- even if proper acceptance was lacking.
that was like I just read a really good book really fast
Schoenberg's work is a kind of "high art" that one can only really appreciate if you have the technical background, (or if your ears purposefully seek out dissonance, bless you, you absolute weirdos). I was always terrible at music theory, however, so I only understand enough to appreciate Gould's trying to explain it to his audience. He's charming as heck but no one is quite so dashing as to simply trick anyone into enjoying Schoenberg 😅
This happens to be the first time I considered the possibility that performers like him might be being disingenous at times rather than irreversibly changing with culture, especially considering the skill they build up over the years which could help them take joys from technical endeavours and not be concerned so much with other things. Besides this man was an angelic freak of nature.
Can't believe this video only has 18 comments?! Is Gould speaking extemporaneously or is he reading from a cue card? From watching other clips of him and also Leonard Bernstein, it seems they possessed the ability to speak this eloquently off the top of their heads, and it is utterly extraordinary.
He is probably doing both.... I have come to the conclusion that Gould's mind preplanned everything he said, he was probably unaware that he did it, and equally unaware that other people did not. Another one of his many genius abilities. Just my speculation. I worship this man! ;)
@@charlotterose6724 he apparently was very "performatic" and did in fact "script" (even if only in his mind) conversations and interactions. There's a very good documentary on him called "Genius Within", or something like that, that covers this and a lot of his personal life.
Gould memorized the lines then pretended to improvise them. Even when he had a guest on, he would insist that they memorize and pretend along with him. He was a total control freak.
@@debussy10 Good for him.
I read somewhere he was Asperger
Glenn Gould talking about and playing the music of Arnold Schoenberg = pure brilliance.
He left a real void in classical performance.
Glenn Gould ROCKS!!
A beautiful work performed by one of the best and brightest. Thank you and RIP, Glen.
Не надо упокоивать Гленна Гульда 🔥. Вы же каждый раз не говорите RIP Баху и Бетховену, слушая их Музыку. Они с нами всегда и будут после нас - во всей красоте и полноте жизни. Амен 🙏.
Brilliant explanation and performance. He's sorely missed in our time. RIP and God bless
I had the honor and privilege to study "music history" under the guidance of the famous and talented Talmon Hertz (a mentor I'll never forget). I also wish I could have studied from Glenn Gould. What a genius he is in explaining novel ideas. This video is a simple example. God has blessed us with these geniuses!
@@theretrogamers7690 I'm guessing you're rather old, judging by your elegant language. However, I've got a feeling that you're pretty narcissist, since you think that your musical knowledge is better than that of a professional musician, such as Glenn Gould.
If we consider that Gould works as a musician, and that he used to play "classical" music at a very high level, I think that we can safely assume Glenn Gould has immense knowledge on the so called subject of music "theory" (what you think of as fundamental "theory" is really just a particular method of composition)
Do you not know that other people are smarter than you in some areas of knowledge?
Atonal music can be beautiful.
Yes it can -- if it's tonal.
@@TerryUniGeezerPeterson Guess you never listened to the Berg Sonata, for starters.
This man is the result of hard work, talent, and having at least one parent that really cares that you succeed.
you are correct
I hope you mean Gould..
And confidence in hinself, that’s like THE most important thing to have
It's also kind of important to be a genius (which Gould was)... that must help a bit. Genius is EXTREMELY rare.
This man is a result of pure genius, technical perfection, unique sensitivity and esoteric profoundless.
I needed this so bad tonight
Dude, everybody does!
sorry about your life...
I love it and his take on musicial ideas and always interesting .
probably the cleanest interpretation you will ever hear of this movt.
I'm a total ignoramus when it comes to music and I'm here because I just read Doctor Faustus by Mann. I'm trying hard to understand any of it and have spent a lot of time googling, The more I hear Schoenberg the more I like hi music. Mann says it's a lament, the sound of human voice in nature, the cry of the soul maybe I dont really know.
Try ro read Rousseau " The origins of language"
Wow, A TM reader here, i was told DF is one of, if not, the greastest novel written about music.
Im a music ignorant too.
Take a couple of bong hits, kick back and let Arnold Schoenberg wash over you...
I love music from this era.
"Six movements in search of an audience." Yes, Glenn.
( ಠ ͜ʖಠ)
Nope.
He got that right!
I'm a bachian guy.
But this is great.
Really.
I don't like this music at all, but I do love Glenn Gould, so I watched it.
Same. Love Gould. Don't like this music at all.
I like this music.
[Agree] :)
Utterly impressive
wonderful ! thank you very much for posting.
there is a live recording of the whole suite op. 25 from salzburg (austria) played by the young gould. marvellous too !
When was this video recorded?
sometime before he died
Art without beauty is the display of ugliness.
Wtf is "beauty"? Define it.
Pretty sure that was Dan Aykroyd playing Gould.
Only Glenn Gould would play Schoenberg with incredible lyricism and Mozart with no lyricism at all. He is missed.
SUPERB
The piece reminds me a bit of John Cage prepared piano.
wow , Glenn Gould
That was genius!
What is that painting?
Zeus ejaculating into Venus
Looked like a Klee to me
Schoenberg is one of those guys whose music is more for talking and "understanding.." education series than for listening.
exactly
A lot of people actually enjoy this?
It's not. I think it's just not your taste, i find Schoenberg music very enjoyable.
I think the 12 tone system started out a intellectual and theoretical endeavor opposed to an emotional one, but did yield some worthwhile music. That can be said of diatonic music the same. A good indicator that the system is worthwhile is if it draws up any memory or feeling. you could say it reminds you of chase scene in an old film or that it makes you feel uneasy.
I think it sounds enjoyable because it’s a major dissonance compared to the consonance of most music. Kinda like spreading out the music of the day like a piece of music with consonance and dissonance.
However the piano does lend well to the system and isn’t absolute as Bach’s music for instance where it would sound great on any instrument
love this work
So do I.
Schoenberg only seems to make sense to me when Glenn is playing!
1:02 The accent XD
Was Glenn hier macht, geht weit über das Klavierspiel hinaus.
Er spielt, als wenn er die Musik und das Klavier erfunden hat.
Wo Andere Tasten drücken, beginnt es hier bei Glenn zu klingen aus der Stimme.
why this man so smart
big hands, big brains
he's Jewish
@@virtualpilgrim8645common misconception. he was presbyterian
blast, what a memory!!
Genial!!!!
Amiable!!!!!
Even now, 40-50 years after this was filmed, Schoenberg has yet to find a broad audience. Even the scope of the giants like Bach or Beethoven seems to have diminished since Gould's time. Might it be the case that "difficult" 20th century composers such as Schoenberg actually contributed to the decline of the entire European art music tradition? It is not the only factor, to be sure: witness Yale University's recent cancelling of their legendary art history class on account of its being too European and too white. But the acceptance of Schoenberg's music, music that most people simply did not like no matter how hard they tried, as the best the tradition had to offer probably did not help.
Schoenberg is great in his own right but he's part of the canon nowhere that I know of, unless we're talking about the elite of the elite. And he certainly didn't contribute to this supposedly decrease in the appretiation of Bach or Beethoven. Also Universities live in their own contradictory bubble.
@@zweiosterei It never crossed my mind that Schoenberg might not be part of the canon. Perhaps I am a part of the elite of the elite? That would be another possibility I had not considered. But in spite of the fact that I think he may have created some challenges for the tradition, at least we agree that Schoenberg was great in his own right!
Even if this is the case, schoenberg is merely the symptom of a trend much larger than he. If we grant your point of view, surely we must view him not as the cause of the deterioration of western art music but as the effect of it, following a long lineage going back through scriabin, debussy, mahler, wagner, beethoven, mozart, bach ad infinitum
also, i believe that you neglect to mention the rise of pop music and pop culture as perhaps the main factor
these sorts of teleological arguments always seem to me to grab the bat by the wrong end so to speak.
its as though people are thinking schoenberg is only a historical "winner" if 14 yo girls are dancing to his music in their tiktok videos in 2020. its not like the art of fugue will ever top the charts. if you think that says something about its merit i would say that reveals more about you !
did schoenberg contribute something rich, imaginative and profound ? yes. if 400 or 4 people are interested, it is still there to be mined.
Love the inimitable GG…huge technique to demonstrate that which he articulates….
Insane...
Glenn gould is the most intelligent musician ever to speak on the subject of music
lucky me this night
yes
"Six movements in search of an audience".
Thank god for musical snobbery. Classic fm is so horrid
Why are youtube comments so hard to understand???
Very informative overview of the 12 tone technique and analysis of Schönberg's piece but the attempted Schönberg impersonation was off-putting and simply unnecessary...
But that's how he talked
no ` back to the future` music without schonberg...!
Some of the people here making the same boring comments about how they or their cat could do better are probably the same geniuses who think they can paint like Pollock or Mondrian - anybody can do that, they say. If you're not equipped to understand and enjoy modern music you should just leave it well alone as something which is beyond you.
Well Pollock is quilitatively different from Schoenberg because he would literally through paint on a canvas randomly, while Schoenberg's notes are the farthest possible thing from randomness.
@@garrysmodsketches You're right about Schoenberg et al. being the very antithesis of randomness. But even Pollock's art follows it's own internal logic and rules. And my point was that the vast majority of people don't understand modern art/music/literature but still feel they are qualified to make pronouncements upon it.
@@johnvalentine4720 i would say choice of colours is the only way "internel logic" can exist in Pollock's stuff. I agree that most people don't understand modern art, but with music it goes deeper. If you show someone a movie or read them a poem or show them a painting and then ask them to describe what they experienced, they will probably give an okay description. But let someone listen to a Beethoven symphony movement and ask them: "what did you hear, describe the sympony, what were the main themes, what were the procedures Beethoven uses to develop them, etc?" They would struggle if they don't already have extensive musical training. This is why music, of all arts, suffers the most from misunderstanding.
The voice of God!
I've only been playing piano for a day and I feel like I can play stuff that sounds like this. I must be a genius
No wonder with your name 😉🤣
@@manfredwolff3115 haha 👍🤙
Please do play Op. 25 and record it here for RUclips! Would live to hear your interpretation after 11 months and one day of playing.
No you cant
@@chickenflavor9880 cry more 😘
Like a bad dream after an un--digestible meal.
My cat wrote better music.
Glenn Gould is one of the few Americans whose wit and rhetoric rivaled that of the English or British.
"rivaled"? exceeded.
Wasn't he Canadian?
He is, was Canadian 100%
I suppose I haven't learned to appreciate Schoenberg
Your suppositions are correct. FREE YOUR MIND
There's not much to appreciate, tbh.
maulCS what?!?!?!
A few more bong hits ought to do it
Might be good performance, but is bad music.
agreed
Im an intelligent man but compared to glenn gould im a dim wit. He was on another level. A glorious intellect.
If Bach's music is like the Eiffel Tower, this music is like a Soviet brutalist style office building.
more like the ruins of a bombed city
Not at all, this is pure romantism
Even Gould fell for this garbage of Schoenberg.
Cat like piano playing detected.
meow
Haha... Gould is mesmerizing as always ... that “music” however is dreadful. Not much different from other degenerated arts of 20th century... like post art deco architecture or “modern” painting/sculpture...
oh dear . . .
The voice of reaction! Are you serious with that 'degenerated'? Do you want to sound like a Nazi? As the man said, the ear just needs to get used to it. I remember my shock when I first heard this--now it sounds like Mozart to my inner ear!
Max Nordau and Schultze-Naumburg would be very proud their views didnt die with them!
I don't agree......so there.
Gould is a genius but how can he waste his time on Schoenberg.
Because its fun to play and hear
His accent is spot-on!